"Conservatism" isn't conservative.

[Stan]

And before you bring up some individual examples of Muslims committing crimes in Europe: yes, yes. Plenty of white "European" men are also criminals. It's called confirmation bias; you read these race-biased stories in the Daily Mail or NY Post and it slots in perfectly with your already racially biased mindset, and reinforces to you that Muslims = rapists. OTOH, if you see news stories about European men raping, you shrug them off as a one-off, a single bad apple in an otherwise incorruptible European barrel. Because that's how confirmation bias works.

It never takes long for MUH ETHNIC FOOD to come out. Yep, you need millions of migrants from the most violent populations on Earth, and all the problems that come with it, from child sex trafficking to trash in the streets, because DONER KEBAAAAAB. DONER KEBAAAAB. Gotta accept cops with machine guns and concrete barriers to protect the Weinachtsmarkt from the Friedenwagen because DONER KEBAAAAB. DONER KEBAAAAB.

And frankly, if you like Arab street meat better than rouladen or weisswurst, you have no palate.

I premptively addressed this bonehead assertion. Also, existing law enforcement agencies in European countries are able to deal with the criminal element of its Muslim population with existing laws that punish child trafficking and rape. (Funny how you right-affiliated guys suddenly care about rape if the perpetrator is nonwhite, but jump to skepticism and victim-blaming if the accused is white, and don't give a fuck if the victim is nonwhite.)

Anyway, your beef (or beef-veal-lamb blend lmao) regarding kebab shops is with the Germans, not me. There's two kebab shops near me, one in Needham and one in Dedham. There are a dozen kebab shops in Mainz, and it was like that when I lived there in 2011 as well. The Germans are voting with their dollars euros which kind of food tastes better.

Also, lmao you're seriously defending German culture on the merits of its food

It's a complicated issue.

It is, until it isn't, and that's how you get pogroms. Another very historically European activity.

Pragmatism and geopolitics, you know?

It would be easier to unite Europe against mass immigration from Africa/China/wherever with the pragmatic/geopolitical reasoning than a shifting-sands definition of "European" that conditionally includes Jews.
It's easier for an outsider to acknowledge the EU's right to regulate immigration than to exalt the 'right' kind of Europeans as the True European Race, worthy of breed conservation and etc.

You have to understand this in pragmatic terms and give "Europeans" and their ethnic groups the same treatment you would give Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and yes, Jewish.

Those last 4 have much more cohesive national identities and ethnicities than Europe (and China has historically been able to tolerate ethnic minorities within its empire.) "Europe" as a general concept doesn't, but I won't belabor that any more.

These are not unreasonable positions and allow for good relations between peoples. What you want leads to actual reaction and grugg uprisings that will eventually cannot be contained. Just because you have a vision of some ideal mixed humanity without conflict, but it's just a utopia as history shows.

I could see a way to present this reasonably (which you're doing) and a way to present it unreasonably (like Otis "9mm incentive" Mallebrook and The Ugly One have done.) Liberals can agree with Europe regulating immigration. They will be less receptive to Europe trying to enact racial purity laws or expelling a bunch of ethnic Turks that came to Europe legally and have lived their lives there peaceably.

This argument reminds me of people who ask "why do antifa do all the fascism"? and I think of an old Shakespearean quip.

Would a nigger by any other name not steal your bike?

Somehow I got over the disappointment of a black kid significantly poorer than me stealing my Pokemon cards. I have a lot, it's easy to get jealous, your parents don't raise you right. The poor are motivated to do shit like this regardless of their race. I believe that criminality like this has much more to do with class than race.

But imagine a hypothetical world that's identical to ours except that paleogenetics is reveling the opposite of what it is on ours.

If you need to pretend that genomics has proved the exact opposite of what it actually implies to make your point, then your argument is built on marshmallows and powered by fairy dust. The truth is that Germany, France, England, and many other culturally different European nations traded constituents all the time, whether by intermarriage or by force of arms.

In other words, do you think people hold the view that replacement migration into European countries is good for actual reasoned reasons, or do you think they hold it as axiomatic and all the arguments they claim it follows from are just them trying to fool you into thinking that that they don't hold it as a axiom?

I don't know what the fuck this drivel means. The real reason European leaders permit replacement migration is because it powers economic growth by injecting more young people into the labor force.

What you want leads to actual reaction and grugg uprisings that will eventually cannot be contained. Just because you have a vision of some ideal mixed humanity without conflict, but it's just a utopia as history shows.

Disagree, what I want is a society unlike any other that has ever been. And we're going to achieve that society by amending the practice of government and the law to create a more just country for everybody. Admittedly it's a pretty imperial position that your race is irrelevant, but America is an empire, and I don't think race is relevant nearly as much as class in terms of the relative civility of people.

Class and race are correlated, but they don't have a causal relationship.

 

[AgendaPoster]

Disagree, what I want is a society unlike any other that has ever been. And we're going to achieve that society by amending the practice of government and the law to create a more just country for everybody. Admittedly it's a pretty imperial position that your race is irrelevant, but America is an empire, and I don't think race is relevant nearly as much as class in terms of the relative civility of people.

But you only want to impose that on European peoples. That's where all your stories fall apart, as it eventually comes to toleration of other identities, and being intolerant of European identities, all of which are constructed to some degree.
I understand why you do that because of your people's history inside Europe.
This sort of very biased view that's very emotionally and fear driven tends to create even more distrust and results in accusations of wanting to destroy Europe and whites, which are common as we both know. It's up to you if you eventually manage to get past these fears and historical atrocities, or if you wanna live your life in suspicion of "it's happening again".
IMO Jews are the safest when they are silently doing their thing and not trying to impose over others. The moment you guys become visible, and the moment some of you are detected as implicated in various high level machinations, which we lovingly call gayops here, it's the moment you become unsafe. Again, it's a choice you have. You can either understand the realities of a 17M people or how many of you are, and the dangers of elite overrepresentation, wealth disparities and high visibility in politics and culture, or you get brash and post about fellow whites being guilty of genocide and having to engage in eternal penance and become race traitors to whiteness.
Our peoples are generally the same size. Imagine if Romanians had this sort of visibility and influence. I'd be terrified too.

 

[KingCoelacanth]

They're right that "conservatism" is a non-ideology. Its just moderates, people who look at their country, or subregion, and think "yeah this is how things should be." A southern US conservative and British conservative are going to hold very different viewpoints on many issues, whereas a southern US liberal and a British liberal will agree on almost everything. A conservative from 50 years ago and a zoomer conservative will hardly get a long, but liberals across the same time will adapt to whats considered the new liberalism.
"Conservative" politics end up be a hodge podge of random nonsense because there isn't a binding ideology to keep things in line, once the norms of society change conservatives change with it. For instance, gay marriage was illegal in the US for almost all of its history, and even one of the most liberal states in the union, California, voted it down when it was on the ballot. But the moment the court decision came through, "conservatives" folded like a house of cards and never touched the issue again.

 

[Freshly Baked Socks]

I believe that criminality like this has much more to do with class than race.

I wonder if you can find a society of high class blacks, and replace the ones brought to America. That'd be nice.

 

[Dr Cruel]

Good bait until this part - you pushed it too far here.

You have to admit. The Muslims are giving it hard and fast to progressive Western feminist girls, whether they want it or not. They're doing their bit to reverse declining European birth rates.

Moreover why did the lauded party of Lincoln get so fucking racist?

That's easy. They didn't. Socialists are the most flagrantly racist people on the planet, let alone the US, and the last time I checked they weren't voting Republican. "The Right" isn't so much a "movement" as a convenient term for lumping all the targets of the Left fascists into a single set. Thus Neo-Nazis, libertarians, pro-Jewish Zionists, small business owners, Midwestern farmers, school choice advocates, evangelical Christians, feminists who aren't on-board fast enough with the new troon line, and even their old militant racist allies in the Ku Klux Klan are "on the Right." Meanwhile limousine Leftists and corporate sponsors support Left fascist Marxists in Antifa and Black Lives Matter as they openly engage in sedition, racist violence and street looting, even as show trials for a January 6th riot and a potential presidential rival are ongoing.

Imagine the mindset of filthy rich Democrats, whose greed for the wealth of others increasingly knows no bounds, being critical of the people they rob for being too "selfish" in their payouts. Then blaming all the problems of the country on "rich people" - while the limousine Left and those who lobby and bribe them are increasingly the only rich people left in America. It's utterly shameless

 

[Stan]

But you only want to impose that on European peoples. That's where all your stories fall apart, as it eventually comes to toleration of other identities, and being intolerant of European identities, all of which are constructed to some degree.

The start of this thread is 95% me calling out Americans, with a tail end dig on Europeans at the end. Anti-black racism is incredibly troubling in America. It basically relegates 20% of the population to substandard education, housing, access to loans, unfair and uneven policing. And there's nowhere to really "send them back" to, kindly groups even tried to make a whole new country just for ex-American blacks in Africa (Liberia); some went, but many more stayed. There's no coherent basis upon which to force them to leave. I find anti-black racism in America deeply troubling for its ubiquity (Bostonians are every bit as prejudiced as North Carolinians) and intractability. And white American identity is even more constructed than the European one.

IMO Jews are the safest when they are silently doing their thing and not trying to impose over others. The moment you guys become visible, and the moment some of you are detected as implicated in various high level machinations, which we lovingly call gayops here, it's the moment you become unsafe. Again, it's a choice you have.

Well, Jews are always a people within a people. The majority of them are somewhere between between assimilation and fundamentalism, trying to figure out to what extent they can practice their religion before it's "too much" and their Gentile neighbors shut them down. Fundamentalists pretty much only exist in areas with a high density of Jews; In New York they build their own ghettos and self-limit to them. They're strongly anti-black and anti-Muslim, and strongly sexist towards both Gentile and Jewish women (albeit in different ways.) In Israel, Jewish fundies form a fast-growing political bloc that's leading Israel towards an even more pugnacious future (which the men can conveniently opt out of in order to study more pilpul in the commentaries.)

I question the extent to which getting discriminated against as a Jew can be controlled by ones personal choices. Seems like if any of your coreligionists get too Jewy (like the Rockland County and Brooklyn ghettos are) then you and all the other Jews get pogromed, no matter how performatively self-hating you were.

You have to admit. The Muslims are giving it hard and fast to progressive Western feminist girls, whether they want it or not. They're doing their bit to reverse declining European birth rates.

Har har har. But let's be real. Most rapes are intraracial, not interracial.

 

[Some Dumb Faggot]

Does every retard here need to type out full length essays for all their posts?

 

[Norbert the Tiger]

A Britbong once tried arguing with me that White people are inherently multiracial on account of being a Bronze age progeny of Proto-Indo-Europeans (PIEs), Early European Farmers and Western Hunter-Gatherers.

It's worth asking if advocates of multiculturalism believe that Africans and Indians should be allowed into the UK in demographic displacing numbers because modern Europeans are mutts of various pre-modern populations. Such a position follows even slightly from modern populations, including Euros, being mutts of old populations that don't exist anymore that all modern populations are fungible enough that demographics don't matter.

they would argue that because there's been no major change in ancestry to go alone with national origin myths claiming recent decent from certain people, like the Anglo-Saxons in the case of the English, that nationalities are meaningless, all people are the same and therefore replacement migration into Europe is good?

like this reasoning, the all peoples are migrants reasoning which commies use. Even if technically true they dont apply it with equal standards.

Do you understand the concept of imperfect boundaries?
Science creates boundaries and categories, as they are necessary for learning processes. This is why we have the Black Sea, Sea of Azov and the Marmara Sea. And Aegean. And the Med.
Because when you transmit knowledge, you need to transmit it in a proper format.
You cannot tell people "this is the human species", and everything else but universalism is pointless, as they are all mutts. We have to neatly create categories based on shared characteristics, like history, language, race and ethnicity.

Gentlemen, all of these quoted passages go to what is known as the Continuum Fallacy. An internet search reveals some interesting articles on this fallacy. It has become a favored sleight of hand and parlor trick used by lefties to try and rebut any position asserting the rights of different European people's to try and preserve themselves, and notably it is only ever used against European people's. No one dares utter such nonsense in the context of occupied Tibet, or Native Americans before they were more or less vanquished. They do seem to balk a bit since us right-wingers like to point to Japan as a model.
Technically speaking, Germany and Britain (as two examples) are multicultural. In Britian you have the English, the Welsh, the Scottish and Irish. To use the comingling of different sects very closely related racially, geographically and culturally as a vehicle to flood European nations with black and brownskinned third worlders is flat absurd. But on the spot the sleight of hand is confusing enough to befuddle some. The same is true of course with Germany being "multicultural." Whereas France always romanticized Roman with Paris being the center of French life, the Germans always compared themselves to the Greek polis system, with things more diverse, so you have cultural (and arguably some ethnic differences) between Swabians, Bavarians, Silesians (before Silesia and East Prussia were genocided), Schleswig Holstein. Different dialects, somewhat different cuisine (as exemplified by the weisswurstequaotor). But again, to use this as a vehicle to green light reverse colonization is absurd.
I will only add the example that the Britbong provided happened thousands of years ago. The English language did not exist. Over the past thousand years, a British identify has been cultivated, one that is defined by race.

But you only want to impose that on European peoples. That's where all your stories fall apart, as it eventually comes to toleration of other identities, and being intolerant of European identities

This is absolutely correct, as revealed by the absurd suggestion that somehow European identities are less robust or cohesive or whatever the argument is. To the extent that is true, that just demonstrates the need for a new racial consciousness, the rise of radical, far-right populism, which probably includes a need to reject and overthrow democracy and the documents that legitimize the current regimes.

When I opened this thread, the subject line led me to believe that Miss Piggy has discovered Pat Buchanan. And then, I read her OP. I won't bother responding to the usual talking points Miss Piggy cribbed from other libtards and progressives because I'm not invested in the GOP. On the contrary, I'm invested in its destruction for wholly different reasons. I hate conservatives because they're controlled opposition destined to lose and fail their constituents continuously while libtards continue to wreak havoc on politics and society. You hate conservatives because some of them dare resist your progressive bullshit. We are not the same.

They're right that "conservatism" is a non-ideology. Its just moderates, people who look at their country, or subregion, and think "yeah this is how things should be."

Correct. I hate the term conservative and I hate mainstream conservatism. It has "conserved" nothing. The problem may be baked into the cake, because if you read the definition in Oxford, "conserve" means a judicious expenditure of something valued. Hard-right traditionalism, populism etc needs to have an idea of PROTECTING, not conserving. Conservatism is as bad as the left because it actually facilitates the downard "progression" ie devolution of things by slowing it down and tempering it, offering false assurances to those who do not like the direction of things, only to concede to it on a delayed basis. In this way, conservatism is not unlike a breaking system on a train that, if it did not have that tempering resistance, would fly off sharp curves or blow through red or yellow signals.
About the "delicious food" bit. Get the recipes, expel brown and black skinned invaders, problem fucking solved. Disparaging actual, good German food of course shows exactly the sort of self-hating AWFL we are dealing with. Here is a meme that seems relevant.


As a reminder, the Dali Lama correctly stated Europe belongs to the Europeans, so it is with all the peoples of the world, at least all those capable of building a civilization.

Finally, John Derbyshire addresses Ms y of these issues on Radio Derb this week. Yes I know his wife is Chinese and no I don't approve.

https://vdare.com/radio-derb/the-triple-tsunami-lawfare-the-wrongs-of-rights-and-kendi-hits-the-wall-etc

 

[Stan]

That's easy. They didn't. Socialists are the most flagrantly racist people on the planet, let alone the US, and the last time I checked they weren't voting Republican.

I'm a Socialist and I am anti-racist.

evangelical Christians, feminists who aren't on-board fast enough with the new troon line,

Feminists of any stripe have a very hard time voting for a GOP that wants them to get on board with outlawing abortion and contraception. The troons are a sideshow compared to that; imo.

and even their old militant racist allies in the Ku Klux Klan are "on the Right." Meanwhile limousine Leftists and corporate sponsors support Left fascist Marxists in Antifa and Black Lives Matter as they openly engage in sedition, racist violence and street looting, even as show trials for a January 6th riot and a potential presidential rival are ongoing.

Don't forget the Unite the Right rally. One of you right-affiliated chimps ran over a crowd of counterprotestors with his car, killing one and injuring 19 others.

It's utterly shameless

you say 'limosine left' as if this is a country where only the elite have cars. You're ranting like some old guy who listens to too much Rush. Surprised you didn't call me a feminazi tbh. Also the Democrats aren't all 0.1% rich, the black vote is still extremely important within the caucus, but that's probably not enough blowhard invective for you.

Does every retard here need to type out full length essays for all their posts?

No. My tl;dr is 'Stop being a racist cuck, you're destroying the Republic.'
succinct enough for you?

 

[Duke Nukem]

> fat frumpy liberal chick trying to get attention from a bunch of conservative men

There's a fascinating anthropological study on this kind of behavior, where low value women attempt to get attention from high value men by nagging and pestering them in hopes it will lead to reproduction via hate sex. Wish I could remember the author. Oh well.

I knew one like this, she had the problem glasses, looked like Jabba the Hutt and a human female had sex without a rubber and this came out, and was whiter than bleached mayonnaise. Always fuming about how horrible society is for "minorities" without explaining why.

 

[Some Dumb Faggot]

No. My tl;dr is 'Stop being a racist cuck, you're destroying the Republic.'
succinct enough for you?

It's hard not to be racist when Niggers are so dumb and violent.

 

[Dr Cruel]

I'm a Socialist and I am anti-racist.

If what socialists said were what socialists do, they would not be so universally despised. As it is, your comment is like saying that you're a National Socialist and anti-racist, which is most certainly possible but extremely unlikely.

Feminists ... troons ... (etc)

My point is not to determine who does and does not want to vote for Republican candidates. It was to describe the very arbitrary nature of what supposedly constitutes "the Right." Note that this would supposedly include Bret Weinstein, an evolutionary biologist who considers himself to be a progressive Democrat, is a determined anti-theist, and whose sole crime was to not go along with notorious Left fascist racists at Evergreen State University because what they were doing smacked too much of anti-Jewish pogroms and the like.

Don't forget the Unite the Right rally.

Nor do I forget Kyle Rittenhouse, who "murdered" two innocent Left fascist activists and wounded one, merely because they were chasing him down and trying to kill him for being on a public street where they were engaging in a "mostly peaceful" riot and looting spree. No doubt he should have known better.

But again, what "unites" this "Right?" I certainly do not see the relationship between David Ramsay Steele's commentary on economic issues and plowing through crowds of protesters. It certainly does not sound like what either evangelical Christians or JK Rowling would advocate for. By contrast, I have heard substantial Left fascist advocacy for looting as "free speech" from various Leftist sources ranging from Vicky Osterweil to Patrisse Cullors to NPR.

Again I propose that there are coherent political entities representing broad-based Leftist interests, of which the limousine Left Democrats and the Left fascists (what you would call "socialists") are the predominant rival camps. I see nothing similarly unified on this so-called "Right"' other than whatever factions the Leftists happen to be victimizing or are at war with at the moment. Like with the National Socialists, any of these groups can suddenly become "working people's comrades" at any time, as socialist ideology is essentially meaningless outside of being a quasi-religious justification for whatever atrocities, racism, biological insanity or similar extremist self-serving nonsense is the arbitrary Party policy at the moment. Indeed; if Leftists were not making such a profit on the abortion industry, they might bail on their pro-abortionist allies just as easily as they've bailed on their inconvenient Title IX feminists recently. And so on.

My tl;dr is 'Stop being a racist cuck, you're destroying the Republic.'

Likewise. I'd add that socialists should also stop being so deceitful and treacherous. Socialists are racist, sexist, anti-worker hypocrites who seek to exploit people for their surplus value and have been doing so in various nations across the world for over a century now. No one with a vested interest in promoting the public weal want to give these vicious little jackarses supreme authority over anything.

Perhaps that can be shortened to "Stop fucking our republic in the arse, you authoritarian socialist prick. Take your self-serving race baiting and similar con games somewhere else." Or words to that effect.

Would you consider that sufficiently direct? Maybe this helps?

 

[Shidoen]

@Stan you and your ilk just want to make sure the low class whites get replaced by another vulnerable and naive people since said low class whites recognized the bullshit being pulled against them. So get some browns and blacks to take what little those whites have, replace them as the new backbone, and repeat the cycle of abuse and torment against those new groups of low classes that low class whites suffered.

 

[Skitarii]

And frankly, if you like Arab street meat better than rouladen or weisswurst, you have no palate.

Arab food tastes like Michelin star cuisine compared to the turkroach abomination known as d*ner k*bab

 

[Samson Pumpkin Jr.]

Arab food tastes like Michelin star cuisine compared to the turkroach abomination known as d*ner k*bab

A lot of Arab food was inspired by Turkish food because of centuries of domination by the Ottoman empire. You will find many similarities between Turkish and Arab food

said low class whites recognized the bullshit being pulled against them.

Poor people are actually extremely stupid, that's why they keep voting for the GOP even though nothing changes ever. If they actually had any understanding of what's happening, they would burn the entire establishment to the ground, wipe the slate clean and from the ashes a new America will be born, evolved but untamed.

 

[Skitarii]

A lot of Arab food was inspired by Turkish food because of centuries of domination by the Ottoman empire. You will find many similarities between Turkish and Arab food

You'll only find Ottoman influnece in North Arab/Levantine cuisine. Iraqi and Omani food is another beast

 

[Trombonista]

Jerrymander

You lost me right here.

 

[Otoya Yamaguchi]

conservative doesnt mean aything, the meaning changes every 10 years. say what you mean

I wanted to write you a well thought reply about my different set of reasons to despise cuckservatards and the GOP, but then I got to this bonus line.
Don't you think you should also address Israel too? You know, Jordan Peterson created a series of "Message to" some Abrahamic faith or group of people.
Guess which groups he has no message for? Yes, you guessed correctly.
View attachment 5356249
We're fucking tired of being treated like we're dangerous monsters that will genocide minorities if given power. We're fucking tired being the only group of people being denied a collective identity, while all others are praised and positive.
And no, Turks and Muslims NEVER built a thing in my country, they only destroyed it.
Be happy that I do not desire vengeance, and want trade, good relations and diplomacy, cause living together won't happen.
Do better. This is not Reddit nor Xitter.

who is WE. whiners?

 

[Alex Hogendorp]

What the fuck! Do you work for the Tories?! Otherwise you clearly don't have any fucking clue what real Conservatism is and not this fake ass CINO shit!

Another fun fact: When mudslimes took over Europe before the crusades. The population became much more savage and piracy was extremely common in the Mediterranean. Why do we have so many Pirates in Somalia right now?

 

[Sweetpeaa]

Conservatism is long gone. What exists now is just a mixed up mess of neoliberalism and evangelism with some culture war crap. The last elected real conservative was probably Richard Nixon.