Opinion How Gay Marriage Changed America

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How Gay Marriage Changed America
by Matthew Schmitz, April 2023

First Things / Archive
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In November 2022, the ACLU’s deputy director for transgender justice came out against gay marriage. “I find it disappointing how much time and resources went into fighting for inclusion in the deeply flawed and fundamentally violent institution of civil marriage,” Chase Strangio wrote on Instagram. Two months later, Taylor Silverman, a female skateboarder who gained prominence after objecting to the inclusion of biological males in women’s athletic competitions, criticized gay marriage from the opposite direction: “I used to think gay marriage was ok until all of the things that conservatives warned us would happen next actually happened. Now it seems it really was the beginning of the dangerous slippery slope.” With the passage of the Respect for Marriage Act in 2022, the legal status of same-sex marriage has never been more secure. Public opinion is strongly in its favor, even as, not so long ago, it was overwhelmingly opposed. Yet the ideological case for same-sex marriage seems strangely fragile, subject to challenge on both the left and the right.

It has been eight years since the White House was lit with rainbow colors in celebration of the Supreme Court’s ruling in Obergefell v. Hodges. Hailed as the enshrinement of a new consensus, the national recognition of same-sex marriage can also be understood as an event that accelerated polarization—leading some on the left to press for ever more changes, and some on the right to doubt the very possibility of liberal governance.

Not all of the effects of gay marriage are obvious, or were anticipated. In the runup to the national recognition of gay marriage, much attention was paid on both sides to such questions as whether children raised in same-sex households could thrive as did those raised by a mother and father. Important as they were, these discussions distracted from another way in which gay marriage would affect national life. Its recognition changed the makeup of the American elite by causing more conservative and religious actors to lose standing while left-wing activists gained power and prestige. For thoroughgoing progressives, there is nothing to lament in these developments. But for figures on the center-left, gay marriage has had an ambiguous legacy.

Gay marriage was the first great triumph of cancel culture. Sasha Issenberg, a historian of gay marriage, has observed that by deploying the novel weapons of “shaming and shunning,” activists “changed the economic terrain on which cultural conflict was waged.” One of the early breakthroughs occurred when eightmaps.com appeared online. The site used information gathered under financial disclosure laws to list the names and locations of people who had donated to California’s Proposition 8, a referendum that stated marriage could take place only between a man and a woman. Suddenly American citizens came under pressure for their political views—not just from their friends and families, but potentially from anyone with an internet connection. Some reported receiving envelopes with powder and death threats.

Donors to Proposition 8 were also targeted through their employers. Scott Eckern, the artistic director of the California Musical Theatre in Sacramento, was forced to resign after his colleagues learned that he had backed the referendum. Brendan Eich was forced to step down as the CEO of Mozilla in 2014, when his past support of Proposition 8 was publicized.

Those who denounce cancel culture often speak as though it was hatched by radical activists and intolerant students, and see the contest as pitting liberal tolerance against illiberal denunciation. But as the history of gay marriage shows, the reality is more complicated. Cancel culture was pioneered in part by veteran political activists such as the lifelong Republican Fred Karger, who organized demonstrations outside commercial properties owned by backers of Proposition 8. And it arose in alliance with corporate power, as seen when corporations declared “capital strikes” by threatening to pull out of states that guaranteed religious freedom to those who rejected gay marriage.


In recent years, figures such as Andrew Sullivan have emerged as brave and eloquent critics of wokeness. They have opposed its particular injustices while exploring its deep origins. They have tied wokeness to the flowering of “illiberalism” on the left and the right. But they have failed to examine how these forms of illiberalism were encouraged by the campaign for a policy they support.

Gay marriage changed the character of important institutions in ways that its moderate supporters have not yet recognized. Through the operation of cancel culture, high-profile opponents of same-sex marriage were silenced, fired, or forced out of important institutions. In 2011, Paul Clement, the distinguished appellate lawyer and former solicitor general, was compelled to leave his law firm in order to continue his legal work on behalf of the Defense of Marriage Act, a case that his firm had been pressured to drop by the Human Rights Campaign. In 2015, Kelvin Cochran, the chief of the Atlanta fire department, was fired after writing a book that expressed opposition to homosexuality. In 2023, Jacob Kersey, a police officer in Georgia, was placed on leave after writing on Facebook: “God designed marriage. Marriage refers to Christ and the church. That’s why there is no such thing as homosexual marriage.”

Eliminating religious and conservative voices from important institutions changed the character of those institutions. People who had previously been liberals or centrists suddenly found themselves the rightmost members of institutions in which progressive causes enjoyed uncontested prestige. One victim of this process is Sullivan himself, who in 2020 was compelled to leave New York magazine because its junior staff had declared him a bigot for his rejection of progressive pieties on race and gender identity. Across his career, Sullivan has been admirably willing to break with conventional views. He has also spoken movingly of the necessity of treating those with whom we disagree with liberality. But legal recognition of same-sex marriage has in important ways worked against his better instincts by limiting the range of acceptable views.

A popular cartoon shows a liberal man remaining in place as his fellow liberals move left—so far left that they come to view him as on the right. That shift in perspective is part of the story of the transformation of American institutions in recent years. The other, and essential, part is the deliberate elimination of outspoken right-wing figures, often with the support of moderates, centrists, and liberals. These establishment figures frequently share the principles of their progressive counterparts, while lacking their consistency. Once the vocal right-wingers are gone, liberals must either preserve their self-conception as centrists by moving to the left, or they must become de facto right-wingers in a context where being right-wing has personal and professional costs. Most choose to move with the times.

LGBT organizations played an important role in the construction of this new reality. When the Berlin Wall fell, the Committee for the Free World, a neoconservative think tank, closed its doors. Its director, Midge Decter, concluded that it had served its purpose and so should dissolve. Gay-rights organizations chose a different path after Obergefell. Rather than declare victory and go home, they moved on to the “next frontier”: transgender rights. Religious conservatives had already been largely eliminated from important American institutions, and so posed no internal obstacle to the pursuit of this goal. Feminists, who remained, mostly went along with the idea that men could become women. Those who chose to speak were labeled “TERFs” and targeted with the same arsenal of social, professional, and financial threats that had once been deployed against opponents of same-sex marriage.


When rainbow colors were projected onto the White House, the symbolism was broader than the celebration of any one Supreme Court decision. It was a sign that something fundamental had changed about the country, that an older order, symbolized by the stars and stripes, had given way to a new one that marched under the rainbow banner. This regime rejects neutrality as it seeks to inscribe its political priorities in American law. Religious freedom, due process, and equal treatment before the law must all yield before the imperative of inclusion. If the expression of certain views makes members of protected groups uncomfortable, those views must be silenced. If legal norms cause an insufficient number of cases of sexual harrassment or rape to result in conviction, the norms must be abandoned. Christianity famously introduced a distinction between the sacred and secular realm, differentiating the things that belong to God from those that belong to Caesar. The new American regime has collapsed this distinction, creating a system in which full citizenship is closely tied to right belief.

This new regime is not narrowly tied to the cause of gay rights. Its quest for inclusion is all-encompassing, and its priorities—including the gender transitioning of effeminate boys and tomboyish girls—at times contradict the preferences of gay activists. It seeks to make queerness normal, to move what has been marginal to the center of society. This is why it has not been content to rest with gay marriage, but has proceeded to insist on drag queen story hours in public libraries and sex education for third-graders. Beginning at the earliest ages, the weird must be made familiar.

These developments indicate the triumph of the more radical—and consistent—side of a long-running debate. Gay marriage has always had critics on the left, who regarded it as an attempt to entrap queer desire within a dead institution. Sullivan’s insight was that America would be quicker to normalize gayness if gayness aspired to normality—if “acceptance” meant allowing gays to participate in an utterly conventional institution. But this was an ambivalent aspiration. Sullivan himself warned against the “stifling model of heterosexual normality,” and argued that heterosexual relationships could stand to take on “something of the gay relationship’s necessary honesty, its flexibility, and its equality.” The queer would be normalized by the queering of the normal.

Obergefell was supposed to tame homosexuality, but it has precipitated a regime of more radical queerness. From “Marriage is a human right” to “Marriage is deeply flawed and fundamentally violent”: The sexual left’s long-running dispute about the nature of marriage and its relation to gayness seems to be getting resolved in the direction of the marriage skeptics.

Progressive capture of institutions explains the emergence of a more populist and radical right. When conservative and religious people find themselves excluded from important institutions, they will naturally tend to acquire anti-institutional attitudes. When they see that ostensibly liberal institutions are arrayed against them, defining their beliefs as bigotry, they may turn against liberalism wholesale. Gay marriage has played an important role in this process. Legal protection of gay rights has entailed the penalization of traditional views of marriage: Any employer or employee who expresses opposition to homosexuality in stark or unsubtle terms can be regarded as creating a hostile work environment or engaging in hate speech. Institutional embrace of the rainbow banner—blazoned on police cars and flown at U.S. embassies—puts the lie to the claim that our regime upholds procedural neutrality or is equally open to every creed.

On the right, the success of gay marriage caused many to ask what the conservative movement was capable of conserving. The conservative movement had been characterized by its simultaneous commitments to moral traditionalism, laissez-faire economics, and liberal principles of argument. But after Obergefell, the business interests it had defended turned against the convictions of religious Americans. Likewise, the conservative belief in the importance of free speech and of transacting public business in the currency of reason and argument came to seem naive beside the cancellation tactics employed by the left. Perhaps an unstinting defense of corporate power is not finally conservative in its effects. Perhaps America, whatever it claims to be, is hardly a liberal democracy. These dark reflections led some in unexpected directions. A radicalization of the left prompted a radicalization of the right.

When the Supreme Court announced a constitutional right to same-sex marriage, the sky didn’t fall—as supporters of the decision wryly observed. But their claim that the legal recognition of same-sex marriage would change little about American life has become harder to sustain. Same-sex marriage may remain fixed in our law, but its placement there has caused much else to shift.
 
They really need to wake up and smell the coffee asap before the Frankenstein monster they created will turn against them.
I mean a YouTuber whatifalthist (sue me faggots I enjoy his videos) brought up a good point. I think we're facing a sort of quasi french revolution as the native populace is getting populated and priced out of homes and areas they once knew by third world hordes(obviously not in that manner). The amount of wealth In regions of America technically is more then some continents. Yet at the same time much of that wealth is at the expense of others ie the American working and middle classes.

You can't cruelly enforce gender pronouns on people that are barely able to eat while the other half lives in near oppulance.
 
Fags getting married was a huge mistake. It opened the gates to all sorts of degeneracy and insanity being normalized. Troons ended up becoming the superstars of oppression when the fags were given what they wanted.

The US should unironically follow Uganda at this point because their society is unironically more stable since they cracked down on fags.

 
Because heterosexual married couples could still apply, homos couldn't use the civil rights/equal treatment argument to trample all over a cultural touchstone's key definitive properties, and it would still at a minimum require two people so an otaku sitting home all day eating cheetos would never meet the requirements anyway.

Plus you could even use the argument that it's a violation of the principle of separating church and state to beat lefties over the head with to help accomplish splitting it into civil unions for government recognition vs marriage for religious/cultural purposes. If you actually give a fuck about the sanctity of marriage as an institution it's the best way to preserve that.
I don't think maladaptive behaviours should be encouraged at all. Homosexuality is a mental illness, the behaviour itself doesn't have any claim to civil rights or equal treatment any more than schizophrenia does.

My point about an otaku is that I don't see why 2 gay men are deserving of tax cuts anymore than otaku is. What are they doing to benefit society that's worth of tax cuts? Straight couples get tax cuts because they raise the next generation. What do gay couples do? Spreading diseases? Burdening healthcare and social security?

"Give them free shit they're obviously not deserving of so they'll stop bothering us" is literally terrorism.
 
Why do gay people need to get married? They don’t even believe in God
It's supposed to be a fig leaf for the degenerate practices they engage in with crowds of men over the weekend, anal sex and methamphetamine use with multiple unprotected partners is a common practice in some circles.
 
^this.
Most churches do not consider civic marriages to be marriages done in front of God - and they really are not. They're contracts for the unification of ownership claims and a form of registered cohabitation.
Time to make marriage be done in God's Will once again. Faggots can enter a civil partnership - but they cannot marry. And also some sort of ban on child adoption - that's a no-no.
This sounds good on paper, but it also opens the door for a lot of degeneracy that will shield behind religious freedom. Basically, sharia for every moron who makes up a religion to get away with forcing some vulnerable person to marry them.

Here, you can't get married by the Catholic Church unless you are first married by the state.
 
I don't think maladaptive behaviours should be encouraged at all. Homosexuality is a mental illness, the behaviour itself doesn't have any claim to civil rights or equal treatment any more than schizophrenia does.

My point about an otaku is that I don't see why 2 gay men are deserving of tax cuts anymore than otaku is. What are they doing to benefit society that's worth of tax cuts? Straight couples get tax cuts because they raise the next generation. What do gay couples do? Spreading diseases? Burdening healthcare and social security?

"Give them free shit they're obviously not deserving of so they'll stop bothering us" is literally terrorism.
Should a heterosexual couple who don't plan on having kids, or are incapable of not doing so, be prohibited from marriage?

How about nobody gets marriage bennies, and the government stays the hell out of it like they should've done in the first place?
 
Someone proposed "cunas salvadoras", a program for women who didn't want to keep their babies to take them to a hospital or any site of care and leave them there after they were born without any kind of negative implication for the mothers... and our leftists voted "no". It was either abortion or nothing. Its' their way or the high way.
Wait, you don't have Safe Haven laws? How does that make any sense?
 
Should a heterosexual couple who don't plan on having kids, or are incapable of not doing so, be prohibited from marriage?
Many people who don't plan on having kids end up changing their minds later. That's why the tax breaks for marriage exist. To help change their minds. As for people who are incapable, hopefuly we find a way to cure infertility, but in any case they are setting a good example.

Gay couples accomplish neither of these thigns. No mater how much cum you dump in a colon you will never fertilize it and they are setting a bad example by treating marriage/partnerships as something who's endgoal is self pleasure and heidonism.
How about nobody gets marriage bennies, and the government stays the hell out of it like they should've done in the first place?
This is such a dumb argument. The highest authority has always overseen and ordained marriage across nearly all of human history for a reason.

From the chieftain, to the king, to the church, and now to the state, ANY society has a vested intrest in the production of the next generation and marriage was invented in every single culture across history because its the best way to do so.

When the state surpassed the church as the supreme authority it also inherited its responsibility in taking care of marriages in the society it was overseeing.

No. The government should not "stay the hell out of it". Marriage is the oldest and most important institution humanity has created for a reason. The supreme authority SHOULD be there to help with it.

Conservacucks going "ThE govErnEmTn ShOUlD StAy OuT oF IT" are admiting they are political failures and are incapable of fixing a recently broken system that has served humanity fine for thousands of years, so they want to tear it down alltoogether to pretend they accomplished something.
 
Conservacucks
Not a conservative, fyi.
Many people who don't plan on having kids end up changing their minds later.
Not all.
That's why the tax breaks for marriage exist. To help change their minds. As for people who are incapable, hopefuly we find a way to cure infertility, but in any case they are setting a good example.
So you don't have a good answer for the argument that already won. Good to know.
This is such a dumb argument. The highest authority has always overseen and ordained marriage across nearly all of human history for a reason.

From the chieftain, to the king, to the church, and now to the state, ANY society has a vested intrest in the production of the next generation and marriage was invented in every single culture across history because its the best way to do so.
Yeah? And a tribal "government" that is headed by a chieftan predates writing, and is in an entirely different set of circumstances to a national or even state-level government. A chieftan of a tribe and marriage within it predates the concept of law.

The king, likewise, for pretty much the entirety of the medieval period served in one way or another under the auspices of the local church. The king and church both in the time period in which this comparison would even begin to make sense, wouldn't have had to argue against a separation of church and state as it would predate the concept. The state at that point is functioning with the blessing of the church, and within it, not as a body of laws and functionaries parallel to religious or social norms and customs.

These comparisons are fucking stupid and fallacious.
When the state surpassed the church as the supreme authority it also inherited its responsibility in taking care of marriages in the society it was overseeing.
No. The government should not "stay the hell out of it". Marriage is the oldest and most important institution humanity has created for a reason. The supreme authority SHOULD be there to help with it.
:story:

It's a religious institution in every society it's ever existed in as well. You're either saying you want the government to go back to handling religious matters, or you're admitting that you don't mind if the government dips its toes into religious matters as long as it does what you want it to with them.

Are you okay with polyamory? How about underaged marriages? Because if it's to serve every religion's take on marriage that exists in the U.S. then it'll have to accept Islamic standards for people being wed as well as Hindu, you know.
Conservacucks going "ThE govErnEmTn ShOUlD StAy OuT oF IT" are admiting they are political failures and are incapable of fixing a recently broken system that has served humanity fine for thousands of years, so they want to tear it down alltoogether to pretend they accomplished something.
No dipshit I'm pointing out that you're cheapening marriage by relegating it to the secular state, rather than having a separate legal function that serves a similar purpose. You can scream till you're blue in the face how important marriage is as an institution and how it's between a man and a woman, how it's for the purpose of building a family unit etc etc but none of it amounts to anything when you're talking about legal policy in a secular system.

Relegating marriage back to where it belongs - that of a religious ceremony - neuters any arguments around allowing gays to marry based on civil rights grounds as it won't be a function of government at that point. Having a separate system in place in law that works in tandem yet parallel to the religious and social process serves as a way to keep the very definition and social significance of the institution of marriage intact whilst also giving a staging ground for such arguments to be made on their merits without people having to bring in shitty religious persecution complex bullshit into it i.e. "you don't want gays married because you're a _______ who thinks we're going to hell!" and whatnot.

And that's not even getting into how this shit has affected divorce rates by tying in the act of marriage inextricably to the possibility of profit and fraud through divorce law. Fucking laughable, the notion, that somehow the state has protected marriage or is even capable of doing so given how prevalent people getting fucked over in divorces is that a lot of people just aren't fucking getting married anymore due to the fear of it happening to them. Another way in which marriage has been cheapened as an institution, by inclusion with the government, when people could given that a civil union system existed get married, then live that way for a few years until such a time that they felt they would be comfortable entangling themselves to one another legally.

I mean fuck arguably it cheapens not just marriage but religion. But no, apparently, it's super duper mega important that the fucking state be expected to function as a stand-in for the church, specifically for marriage for some reason, so much so that to admit that maybe it's not the best idea to have a secular governing body tied into a religious and ceremonial function of a society directly means you're a political failure, or something.
 
The damage done to the U.S. because of gay marriage lies solely with the grifting organizations like the HRC and GLAAD that made trans crap their new grift because they wanted the money to continue to flow after their goal was accomplished. Gays had no idea that these organizations were going to start fucking them over by demanding that they fuck someone of the opposite sex that started taking hormones.

Evangelicals that protested against gays only did so because of their Jewish book, but there was some truth in what they said. Take the talking point that they used: "Marriage is between one man and one woman." Marriage is so persistent across cultures and history because it's a cultural veneer of sorts over the monogamous pairings that humans formed as hunter-gatherers to take care of children that take a long time to reach maturity compared to other mammals. From an evolutionary standpoint, it makes sense for the man to stick around (unlike many other mammals where the male departs after mating) and help with the child, because he can ensure that his genes will survive.

With gay marriage, you're left with two people that obviously have their own personal reasons for pairing up, but the underlying reason that drives most other pairings has been removed. However, a stable, normal, boring, monogamous marriage is the best thing for any gay person, as one can only do so much weird, degenerate crap before it comes back to haunt you. And we shouldn't forget that this very site has shown us that straight people are just as capable of doing weird degenerate crap and having worthless relationships as gay people.
If you've seen any rancid gay 'couple' that got exposed for heinous shit you'd know that they tend to either reinforce or just plain encourage the degenerate shit.
 
Not a conservative, fyi.
Libertarians are worse.
Irrelevant. The point is to encourage as many as possible.
So you don't have a good answer for the argument that already won. Good to know.
What?
These comparisons are fucking stupid and fallacious.
No they aren't. Authority facilitates marriage. This has always been the case and that is my point.
It's a religious institution in every society it's ever existed in as well.
Yeah because religion has existed in literally every society in human history and help authority in every society in human history. Really crazy how ever society independantly came up with religion, gave it authority, and then independantly came up with marriage ontop of it huh.
It's a religious institution in every society it's ever existed in as well. You're either saying you want the government to go back to handling religious matters, or you're admitting that you don't mind if the government dips its toes into religious matters as long as it does what you want it to with them.

Are you okay with polyamory? How about underaged marriages? Because if it's to serve every religion's take on marriage that exists in the U.S. then it'll have to accept Islamic standards for people being wed as well as Hindu, you know.
Why would you have to accept islamic and hindu standards? Its not their country. You don't get to go to someone else's house and tell them how to run things.

No dipshit I'm pointing out that you're cheapening marriage by relegating it to the secular state, rather than having a separate legal function that serves a similar purpose. You can scream till you're blue in the face how important marriage is as an institution and how it's between a man and a woman, how it's for the purpose of building a family unit etc etc but none of it amounts to anything when you're talking about legal policy in a secular system.
In case you haven't noticed, people in legal secular systemes do not replicate by budding. They still need someone to make kids, which is why marriage was invented in the first place.

It ammounts to literally everything because without kids the "secular system" doesn't get to exist for much longer.

Its also the reason why nearly every single "secular system" in history thought "shit we better give marriage benefits".
Relegating marriage back to where it belongs - that of a religious ceremony - neuters any arguments around allowing gays to marry based on civil rights grounds as it won't be a function of government at that point.
Gays have no right to argue based on civil rights to begin with because being gay is a mental illness, a harm to the self, and a harm to society.

They should not be allowed to get civil partnerships either. Behaviours that are both self destructive and societally destructive should not be encouraged by society or the state.

Letting them marry/civil partner is akin to validating a smack addict's addiction by providing him with free black tar heroin. The state is not obligated to help addicts indulge in their self destructive behaviour, and if anything its obligated to stop them.

Societies across the planet somehow had no problem understanding this for several thousand years with no issue.

And that's not even getting into how this shit has affected divorce rates by tying in the act of marriage inextricably to the possibility of profit and fraud through divorce law.
Bullshit. Marriage has had benefits for ages in hundreds of countries with no issue.

Divorce skyrocketed with no fault divorce combined with society being bombard with anti natalist propaganda.
I mean fuck arguably it cheapens not just marriage but religion. But no, apparently, it's super duper mega important that the fucking state be expected to function as a stand-in for the church, specifically for marriage for some reason, so much so that to admit that maybe it's not the best idea to have a secular governing body tied into a religious and ceremonial function of a society directly means you're a political failure, or something.
How does it cheapen religion?
 
This is exactly why I laugh whenever gays try to push back against the troon movement, or the more radical elements of the LGBTQP movement.

As much as I appreciate it that some gays have the decency to draw the line at child grooming...

Actually no, fuck you. You only pretended to be against that in the 90s, but even then, there were cracks in that mask.

The bullshit you wanted, which was to upend a thousands-year old institution for the sake of your self-defeating sexual proclivities, AND to socially condition people to accept behaviors that they are genetically predisposed to find repulsive and immoral, could have only come through extensive social engineering, proto-cancel culture. You even admitted as much, whenever you didn't suspect that your enemies were listening in, then you gaslit anyone who pointed it out. And believe me, people were pointing that shit out as early as the aughts or early tens.

The only thing I can do at this point is laugh at the fact that people even more degenerate than yourselves are force-feeding you shit, just like you did to the rest of us. People even worse than yourself, using the same tactics you did to force society to accept YOUR degeneracy, to normalize even more fucked up shit.

Fucking swallow it down like a good bitch, you asked for it.
 
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Why do gay people need to get married? They don’t even believe in God
They don’t even believe in themselves

That's a feature, not a bug. The GOP and DNC are one in the same. For the most part. The DNC is the dominate partner while the GOP is their bitch boy.
Rush Limbaugh made a good point once. Is the media the propaganda arm of the DNC? Or is the DNC the political arm of the media…
 
AND to socially condition people to accept behaviors that they are genetically predisposed to find repulsive and immoral, could have only come through extensive social engineering, proto-cancel culture.
I remember when the movie Bros went mask off when the main gay character which is a standin for the gay director/producter/etc, goes "Love isn't love, we are not the same, that's just a bullshit lie we told straight people so they'd treat us better."
 
I remember when the movie Bros went mask off when the main gay character which is a standin for the gay director/producter/etc, goes "Love isn't love, we are not the same, that's just a bullshit lie we told straight people so they'd treat us better."

Do you have a clip?

Please tell me you have a clip.

I honestly can't believe it unless you upload a clip.

But...yeah.

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I still believe gay marriage in and of itself was only the domino to further degeneracy because all the LGBT nonprofits had to find something to fight for once they won the fight.
The problem isn't your average joe homo, the problem is the massive white collar NGO network that had to invent new reasons to exist once that first hurdle was overcome. That's why Pride got so corporate in the latter 2010's and why big pharma suddenly had an influential voice to shill for trannies.
 
I still believe gay marriage in and of itself was only the domino to further degeneracy because all the LGBT nonprofits had to find something to fight for once they won the fight.
The problem isn't your average joe homo, the problem is the massive white collar NGO network that had to invent new reasons to exist once that first hurdle was overcome. That's why Pride got so corporate in the latter 2010's and why big pharma suddenly had an influential voice to shill for trannies.

Virtually no one who has ever even skimmed LGBTQP apologetics or essays on queer theory or sexual liberation actually buys that, especially not the shit written prior to the 90s.

They were pretty damn clear about their desire to simply tear down all sexual morality for the sake of tearing down sexual morality.

They openly admitted, during the 90s, that they were only pretending to be "normal" people who simply wanted "marriage" equality, and pretty clearly outlined their intentions to capture those institutions, including private corporations, for their own purposes, they openly outlined their intentions to smear anyone who disagreed with them in good faith and remove them from these institutions (cancel culture, etc).

The LGBTQP movement as a whole never had good intentions in the first place, they relied on heavy amounts of social engineering in order to dupe people into feeling sorry for them. Or at least giving them what they wanted in the vain hope that they'd shut the fuck up.

To argue that they only got even more crazy and radical due to running out of things to complain about is pure cope. This is what they wanted from the very beginning. This is what they explicitly fought for. And they relied on the misplaced empathy of others in order to do it.

I don't give two fucks about the "average Joe homo," he's not a good enough reason to give an inch to these reprobates. What we're witnessing is the LGBTQP community, in real time, giving everyone a case study on why so many civilizations throughout history resorted to drastic measures to prevent this shit from being normalized.

Oh yeah, you know what else is pure cope? Whining about "pink capitalism" or corporate pride, especially not when even After the Ball outlined their intentions to use their newly acquired corporate power to bombard people with pro-fag propaganda. Neoliberalism is the only reason why fags have gotten so far. Godless capitalism doesn't oppress fags by any means, it enables them. The only reason why they hate "capitalism" is because they are miserable wretches that hate human society, even when said society enables them. It's contrarianism. That's it.

You can whine all you want about how corporations supposedly don't care about fags, but about money. But when the alternative is being sent to the gulag in the hopes of curing you of your faggotry.... yeah, those billionare fat cats are the closest thing to "allies" or "friends" you are ever going to get in a world that is getting increasingly sick of your shit.
 
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Yeah man, ever increasing tolerance of degenerate behavior has no impact on marriage.
Well, for a moment think about what you just said - about degenerate behavior.

Individual choice is part of the cloth of America. For some people marriage is an unsuitable arrangement and previously they may still have been married and subjected their spouse into acceptance of that behavior. Also, there are a lot of complaints listed on KF often by men who claim they find the dating scene (ergo resulting in marriage) difficult because they are expected to be something they are not, perhaps good looking, wealthy, nice and doing well professionally.

I think you'll find that modern freedoms that now have existed since the 1950s economically mean that marriage is no longer a required path for survival whereas before it was essential for most - mostly for women - and that has changed now.

There is not a shortage of women nor men who wish to be married, but the expectations from both camps have greatly changed and it is making it more difficult to tie the knot because survival is not essential with marriage.

Blaming degenerate behavior doesn't do a thing to explain why there are a ton of women and men who are looking for partners can not seem to find suitable marriage partners.

The most common reason for marriage arguably is the goal of rearing of children, so if marriage is the anticipated mechanism for the rearing of children, we should see a drop in the birth rate which we do. You don't see a birth rate drop like this just because there might be a few more queers or lesbians around, you are seeing a cultural and economic shift and the marriages are dropping off. The elimination of all queers and lesbians tomorrow would result in a modest rise in the percentages of marriages, but it would not greatly effect the birth rate or bounce back marriages into previous higher plateaus.



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