Warhammer 40k

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Snekposter said:
Na, the real subversion would be that Emps in some of his last moments realizes just how lost his son truly is, and decides to sacrifice not just himself but thirty thousand years of effort and planning to kill him on the desperate, vain chance mankind can get its shit together without his personal intervention and control.

Hope, in other words. And as we all know, hope is merely the first step on the road to disappointment.
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Another word I would use is "optimistic."
:optimistic:
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
I don't know about the Custodes being immune to Chaos. When your toaster can become possessed, nothing is safe. The Custodes are just way more autistically loyal and know about chaos to fall to usual corruption. Though in general insta corruption never makes a lot of sense.

Also Horus in the last book has pretty much carte blanche to use the most bullshit OP warp powers possible considering he should be the strongest being in the setting before the final battle.

Justifying bad writing aside, I'm still putting my money on Horus winning, regretting while half dying and replacing the Emperor on the golden throne. It's just the most obvious twist and re-contextualizes the Imperium.
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I might put money on the chaos gods pulling out last minute theory where their goal is to leave Big E so injured through Horus that he won't be able to do anything while they play the great game in peace but be alive just enough so he won't be reborn as the star child and or enter the warp as a new "god".

It fits with Tzeentch's MO and maybe the rest of the 3 will go along since bullshit they actually enjoy working together even if its against the anathema.
 
1677187621410.png I've decided to roll with the Bad Moon Clan. Black and yellow, black and yellow.
 
HTTP Error 404 said:
The Emperor dying would 100% result in him resurrecting, however. Which man, would be an interesting twist for 10th or 11th edition, but, it's not happening.
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They're in a weird position lore wise with the emperor. They tied his "living" existence to the Imperium being capable of interstellar travel, and in this universe, losing that is an instant death warrant to the faction. I don't see GW gimping their cash cow to that extent, so if they want to kill off Big E, they have to find a replacement for navigating the warp. It may open up some interesting stories about the Imperium gaining access to the webway, but they'd have to form some sort of alliance with a Xenos faction. Maybe an alliance between AdMech and Trazyn? I'd read that book. If they don't replace warp travel, then they'll never let the emperor die. The rumors about a dark AdMech and the introduction of an Omnissiah themed demon prince in Arks of Omen might open up an avenue of warp travel not tied to the emperor, but then that's leaning into reliance on heretics instead of Xenos.
 
ForTheHoard said:
They're in a weird position lore wise with the emperor. They tied his "living" existence to the Imperium being capable of interstellar travel, and in this universe, losing that is an instant death warrant to the faction. I don't see GW gimping their cash cow to that extent, so if they want to kill off Big E, they have to find a replacement for navigating the warp. It may open up some interesting stories about the Imperium gaining access to the webway, but they'd have to form some sort of alliance with a Xenos faction. Maybe an alliance between AdMech and Trazyn? I'd read that book. If they don't replace warp travel, then they'll never let the emperor die. The rumors about a dark AdMech and the introduction of an Omnissiah themed demon prince in Arks of Omen might open up an avenue of warp travel not tied to the emperor, but then that's leaning into reliance on heretics instead of Xenos.
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If the Emperor died at the end of the Heresy and a repentant Horus took his place on the throne, the Emperor is free to resurrect while Horus is free to keep the lights on.
 
Zaryiu2 said:
...How strong is Horus psychically without the 4 buffing him up?
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One of the strongest primarchs.

Speaking of which, one weird part of the Primarchs is that some have some Jojo style power bullshit. Like Corax being invisible, Curze has auto future vision and Perturabo being a walking STC.
Edit: Alpharius has the clone blood shenanigans, Vulkan is a perpetual.
 
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Zaryiu2 said:
...How strong is Horus psychically without the 4 buffing him up?
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Already very strong, then made stronger via whatever psychic archeotech thing the Emperor used. He's strong enough to run the throne.

In fact, you could retcon it very easily that the only reason 1000 psykers a day are needed is because it's Horus running the throne, not Big E. Big E wouldn't have needed it, even half dead.

Dear god, the more I think about this the more I think this is the exact sort of SUBVERTING EXPECTATIONS they'd pull.
 
HTTP Error 404 said:
Already very strong, then made stronger via whatever psychic archeotech thing the Emperor used. He's strong enough to run the throne.

In fact, you could retcon it very easily that the only reason 1000 psykers a day are needed is because it's Horus running the throne, not Big E. Big E wouldn't have needed it, even half dead.

Dear god, the more I think about this the more I think this is the exact sort of SUBVERTING EXPECTATIONS they'd pull.
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It's not really subverting a lot, considering the idea itself is obvious and enshrines the 40k imperium as being based on the ultimate lie and heresy. Also ironic as hell for Horus considering his rebellion started after the chaos gods showed him the religious hellhole it will become.

And the guy that should have ran the throne is Magnus which is pretty horrifying considering the stress it takes.
 
IIRC, E-Man uses his last remaining strength in the final showdown to completely obliterate Horus, mind, body, and soul, so that Chaos could never bring him back.

Retconning it so that a repentant Horus becomes the new Big E would be worse than what J.J. Abrams did to Star Wars. Never mind that that would be completely out of character for Horus, who has built his whole rebellion upon his galaxy-sized ego and notion that Big E fucked him over.
wtfNeedSignUp said:
It's not really subverting a lot, considering the idea itself is obvious and enshrines the 40k imperium as being based on the ultimate lie and heresy. Also ironic as hell for Horus considering his rebellion started after the chaos gods showed him the religious hellhole it will become.
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Like I said (though feel free to dismiss my opinion because I'm still new to the hobby), Horus is a narcissist. If he mogged the Emperor, he would make it known.

I don't think the distress he had over the visions Chaos gave him were because the Imperium had become a fundamentalist loony bin, but because he was shown as being denied the glory he thought he deserved.

He echoes Jesus' words on the cross: "my Father, why have you abandoned me?" But for all the wrong reasons. Horus at that point stopped caring about the Great Crusade or the Imperial Truth.

Again, I don't claim to be a loremaster, and I know GW has retconned shit before, but completely departing from the most pivotal event of the entire IP just defies all logic to me.

(Which, in Current Year, means I think it will somehow happen).
 
Meat Target said:
Retconning it so that a repentant Horus becomes the new Big E would be worse than what J.J. Abrams did to Star Wars.
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do it GW, I fucking dare you. I want to see the tears of secondary lorefags and the suffering of the grogs that let it go this far.
 
Meat Target said:
IIRC, E-Man uses his last remaining strength in the final showdown to completely obliterate Horus, mind, body, and soul, so that Chaos could never bring him back.

Retconning it so that a repentant Horus becomes the new Big E would be worse than what J.J. Abrams did to Star Wars. Never mind that that would be completely out of character for Horus, who has built his whole rebellion upon his galaxy-sized ego and notion that Big E fucked him over.

Like I said (though feel free to dismiss my opinion because I'm still new to the hobby), Horus is a narcissist. If he mogged the Emperor, he would make it known.

I don't think the distress he had over the visions Chaos gave him were because the Imperium had become a fundamentalist loony bin, but because he was shown as being denied the glory he thought he deserved.

He echoes Jesus' words on the cross: "my Father, why have you abandoned me?" But for all the wrong reasons. Horus at that point stopped caring about the Great Crusade or the Imperial Truth.

Again, I don't claim to be a loremaster, and I know GW has retconned shit before, but completely departing from the most pivotal event of the entire IP just defies all logic to me.

(Which, in Current Year, means I think it will somehow happen).
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Wasn't the old lore that before Horus got annihilated he realised what he has done and asked Big E for a mercy kill? Anyways GW always kept the card thay its lore is documentation of events and is liable for exaggeration/propaganda.

I don't remember Horus primarily being prideful (at least not for it to be his main trait) but I haven't read the first 3 books in like half a decade and haven't read the newer lore.

The biggest fuckup GW did in regards to the traitors is that the question of "what happens after the crusade?" is a massive one and the answer is almost certainly that everyone but the useful primarchs are going to be put down.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
I don't remember Horus primarily being prideful (at least not for it to be his main trait) but I haven't read the first 3 books in like half a decade and haven't read the newer lore.
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In the snake lodge after he got wounded erebus led him through a dream where everyone was worshiping all the primarchs and emperor but there was no statue of Horus and it really upset him.
 
Justanotherguy said:
In the snake lodge after he got wounded erebus led him through a dream where everyone was worshiping all the primarchs and emperor but there was no statue of Horus and it really upset him.
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Plus, he rebranded his legion as the Sons of Horus, and literally massacred anyone who wouldn't swear fealty to him.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
One of the strongest primarchs.

Speaking of which, one weird part of the Primarchs is that some have some Jojo style power bullshit. Like Corax being invisible, Curze has auto future vision and Perturabo being a walking STC.
Edit: Alpharius has the clone blood shenanigans, Vulkan is a perpetual.
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I see, from what I saw normally when strong psyker Primarchs get brought up Horus isn’t brought up so I wasn't sure
HTTP Error 404 said:
Already very strong, then made stronger via whatever psychic archeotech thing the Emperor used. He's strong enough to run the throne.

In fact, you could retcon it very easily that the only reason 1000 psykers a day are needed is because it's Horus running the throne, not Big E. Big E wouldn't have needed it, even half dead.

Dear god, the more I think about this the more I think this is the exact sort of SUBVERTING EXPECTATIONS they'd pull.
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I swear if they do it i will partially blame you
 
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