Law Judge VanDyke: "This is a case about swinging dicks." - Appeals-court judge REALLY doesn't want trannies in women's nude spas

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The Ninth Circuit denied rehearing en banc Olympus Spa v. Armstrong [opinion is attached]. Judge VanDyke wrote the lead dissent, which begins this way:
This is a case about swinging dicks. The Christian owners of Olympus Spa— a traditional Korean, women-only, nude spa—understandably don't want them in their spa. Their female employees and female clients don't want them in their spa either. But Washington State insists on them. And now so does the Ninth Circuit. You may think that swinging dicks shouldn't appear in a judicial opinion. You're not wrong. But as much as you might understandably be shocked and displeased to merely encounter that phrase in this opinion, I hope we all can agree that it is far more jarring for the unsuspecting and exposed women at Olympus Spa— some as young as thirteen—to be visually assaulted by the real thing. Sometimes, it feels like the supposed adults in the room have collectively lost their minds. Woke regulators and complicit judges seem entirely willing, even eager, to ignore the consequences that their Frankenstein social experiments impose on real women and young girls.
As you could imagine, this line infuriated Judge VanDyke's colleagues.

Judge McKeown issued a statement that was joined by twenty-eight members of her Court (the Ninth Circuit has fifty-one total active and senior status judges):
McKEOWN, Senior Circuit Judge, joined by MURGUIA, Chief Judge, HAWKINS, S.R. THOMAS, GRABER, FLETCHER, PAEZ, BERZON, CLIFTON, BYBEE, and HURWITZ, Senior Circuit Judges, WARDLAW, GOULD, RAWLINSON, M. SMITH, CHRISTEN, NGUYEN, FRIEDLAND, MILLER, KOH, SUNG, SANCHEZ, H.A. THOMAS, MENDOZA, DESAI, JOHNSTONE, and DE ALBA, Circuit Judges, respecting the denial of rehearing en banc:

The American legal system has long been regarded as a place to resolve disputes in a dignified and civil manner or, as Justice O'Connor put it, to "disagree without being disagreeable."1 It is not a place for vulgar barroom talk. Nor is it a place to suggest that fellow judges have "collectively lost their minds," or that they are "woke judges[]" "complicit" in a scheme to harm ordinary Americans. That language makes us sound like juveniles, not judges, and it undermines public trust in the courts. The lead dissent's use of such coarse language and invective may make for publicity or entertainment value, but it has no place in a judicial opinion. The lead dissent ignores ordinary principles of dignity and civility and demeans this court. Neither the parties nor the panel dissent found it necessary to invoke such crude and vitriolic language. Decorum and collegiality demand more.
Judges Owens and Forrest (a Trump appointee) issued a one sentence statement:
Regarding the dissenting opinion of Judge VanDyke: We are better than this.
Judge VanDyke responds to McKeown's statement:
Finally, I'll respond briefly to my colleagues' discomfort with how I've written this dissent. My distressed colleagues appear to have the fastidious sensibilities of a Victorian nun when it comes to mere unpleasant words in my opinion, yet exhibit the scruples of our dearly departed colleague Judge Reinhardt when it comes to the government trampling on religious liberties and exposing women and girls to male genitalia. That kind of selective outrage speaks for itself.

The public deserves a court that is actually trustworthy. We should be earning that trust, not demanding it like petty tyrants. Yes, the introduction to this dissent intentionally uses indecorous language. But that is quite literally what this case is about. Male genitalia is precisely (and only) what the Spa, for religious reasons, objects to admitting into its female-only space. The fact that so many on our court want to pretend that this case is about anything other than swinging dicks is the very reason the shocking language is necessary. The panel majority uses slick legal arguments and deflection to studiously avoid eye contact with the actual and horrific consequences of its erroneous opinion. The "ordinary Americans" affected by the majority's opinion don't have that luxury. Squirm as we might, I think it's only fair for our court to have a small taste of its own medicine.

Sometimes "dignified and civil" words are employed to mask a legal abomination. Or, to put it in vernacular perhaps more palatable to my colleagues' Victorian sensibilities: "In law, what plea so tainted and corrupt, / But, being seasoned with a gracious voice, / Obscures the show of evil?"

Sometimes coarse and ugly words bear the truth. I coarsely but respectfully dissent from our court's willingness to leave this travesty in place.
Some people suggest that Judge VanDyke is "auditioning" for the Supreme Court. Before this opinion, I could have told you that he most certainly is not. Watch my interview with Judge VanDyke. After this opinion, you should have no doubts. He truly believes what he is writing, and uses his pen to advance his understanding of the law.

Judge Tung also issued a dissent, which was joined by Judges Nelson, Bumatay, and VanDyke.
Let us be clear about what the law in Washington requires. Under its law, the State can disregard a small-business owner's Christian beliefs and force her familyrun Korean spa to allow a nude man (who claims to be a woman) into an intimate space reserved for its female patrons. Yet under that same law, private clubs embracing secular values can refuse entry to that man. Schools and cemeteries can refuse service to that man, too, so long as they are run by institutions deemed "sectarian." Thus, while the law purports to protect any Washington resident from so-called gender-identity "discrimination," the State's prohibition exempts some secular organizations and certain religious ones—it just does not exempt the small business in its exercise of its religious beliefs here. How is this at all a "neutral law of general applicability"? Employment Div., Dep't of Human Res. of Oregon v. Smith, 494 U.S. 872, 879 (1990). It is not. The panel's conclusion to the contrary—immunizing the law from any serious First Amendment scrutiny—should have been vacated. I dissent.
This case will be swinging to a cert petition near you.

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Fuck it, next president
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Nor is it a place to suggest that fellow judges have "collectively lost their minds," or that they are "woke judges[]" "complicit" in a scheme to harm ordinary Americans. That language makes us sound like juveniles, not judges, and it undermines public trust in the courts.
Totally not because of the career criminals you fail to actually imprison.
 
The American legal system has long been regarded as a place to resolve disputes in a dignified and civil manner or, as Justice O'Connor put it, to "disagree without being disagreeable."1 It is not a place for vulgar barroom talk. Nor is it a place to suggest that fellow judges have "collectively lost their minds," or that they are "woke judges[]" "complicit" in a scheme to harm ordinary Americans. That language makes us sound like juveniles, not judges, and it undermines public trust in the courts. The lead dissent's use of such coarse language and invective may make for publicity or entertainment value, but it has no place in a judicial opinion. The lead dissent ignores ordinary principles of dignity and civility and demeans this court. Neither the parties nor the panel dissent found it necessary to invoke such crude and vitriolic language. Decorum and collegiality demand more.
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How does this smuggie manage to stay so relevant?
 
This is the most American thing ever. There's gruesome shit in legal proceedings, but everyone gets up in a tizzy about the word "dick".
 
I dunno about future SCOTUS, but His Honor seems to be taking a page from the playbooks of Alex Kozinski and Otis Wright.

See, I like when judges speak in plain language. And Judge VanDyke isn't prettying it up. I'm tempted to suggest he get a KF account, he'd fit right in.
 
This is the most American thing ever. There's gruesome shit in legal proceedings, but everyone gets up in a tizzy about the word "dick".
See also the controversy regarding whether racial slurs quoted in judicial opinions should be censored.
Eugene Volokh said:
One Judge's Perspective on Quoting Epithets
From Judge Jamal Whitehead (W.D. Wash.) Friday in Young v. Boeing Co. (W.D. Wash.):
According to Troglia—who identifies as "mixed race (Hispanic) and not 100% Caucasian"—Young became frustrated and called Troglia a "bitch ass nigger"[1] on February 24, 2023, while the two were working together….

[1]Throughout this order, the Court uses the phrase "N-word" when speaking in its own voice. But when quoting the record, the Court reproduces the actual language used. Judicial opinions that euphemize the record risk obscuring the very conduct at issue. Where, as here, the use of a racial slur is central to an employer's termination decision and the plaintiff's claims, the Court declines to place a thumb on the scale by softening the language that drives the dispute.
Of course, as Randy Kennedy and I noted in our The New Taboo: Quoting Epithets in the Classroom and Beyond, different judges exercise their discretion differently on such matters: Some judges avoid expurgation altogether (see, e.g., this decision from last week); others expurgate some slurs; others expurgate a wide range of vulgarities; and others expurgate some mentions of a slur but not others (e.g., not direct quotations from the record). In any event, this example struck me as worth noting.
 
This is the most American thing ever. There's gruesome shit in legal proceedings, but everyone gets up in a tizzy about the word "dick".
I've been side eyed by my brother in law for thinking it was weird that a nude female statue had it's nipples censored in a game with graphic dismemberment. The mind virus is basically permanent.

Also, I support any judge using, "extreme," language when we live in the clown world that we do. Imagine waking up one day and having to tell people you don't think a man with a penis should be in a women's only space.
 
This is the most American thing ever. There's gruesome shit in legal proceedings, but everyone gets up in a tizzy about the word "dick".
Very similar to the parents being told to stop reading from a kids book at a school district meeting because it was too inappropriate to be read aloud. Fine for kids to read though
 
The reaction of the fellow judges to him is the worst bit of this.
You will mouth the platitudes. You will mob and turn on any of your peers who refuse to bend the knee. You will hound them and harry them and ruin their lives for speaking the truth, and refusing to say the shibboleth.
I hate these people. It IS a case about swinging dicks, because men have dicks and women don’t, and men’s dicks do not belong in women’s spas.
 
Judges find that reading the word "dick" is worse for them than seeing one is for children. Clown world indeed. Great legal judo by the dissenter.

Very similar to the parents being told to stop reading from a kids book at a school district meeting because it was too inappropriate to be read aloud. Fine for kids to read though

This sounds insane, got a link?
 
Can Trump replace? Woke, center left Roberts. With Judge Van Dyke Judge Van Dyke for Supreme Court Justice. We need a strong dike in the courts.
In theory, this guy is trying for Thomas’ spot, since he’s likely next to retire or die, you unfortunately can’t COMPEL retirement of a Justice. Not easily at least.
 
Judges find that reading the word "dick" is worse for them than seeing one is for children. Clown world indeed. Great legal judo by the dissenter.



This sounds insane, got a link?
Worse than I remembered, the chair had police remove him from the chambers

Article


Video attached
 
The reaction of the fellow judges to him is the worst bit of this.
You will mouth the platitudes. You will mob and turn on any of your peers who refuse to bend the knee. You will hound them and harry them and ruin their lives for speaking the truth, and refusing to say the shibboleth.
I hate these people. It IS a case about swinging dicks, because men have dicks and women don’t, and men’s dicks do not belong in women’s spas.
It's a good microcosm of the whole issue, when you think about it. These judges are uncomfortable talking about swinging dicks in the women's locker room, but are totally willing to just pretend that's not actually happening. As though they can deny reality by refusing to speak the words of what's going on.

On a legal note, banning demographics from a business or organization has been very tricky in the US for decades now. Broadly speaking you're not allowed to do it, which is why the YMCA, Boy Scouts, etc. had to open their doors (although some just did it anyway), although I know there are a bunch of exemptions especially on more local levels. This basically comes down to which ones they can invoke for this business - it's a sort of health care related thing, it's religious, it's for women and not men (which skirts a lot of the discrimination angle), there are children involved.

I guess what I'm saying is that if we repealed the Civil Rights Act then judges wouldn't have to write about swinging dicks in their legal opinions.
 

Crazy shit, thank you. I read the article. To their credit the book did get removed from the school library. But a slow-ass institution like a school board cannot win by retroactively removing these books if the opposition is thousands of freaks who will constantly try to sneak more in. Makes you wonder how complicit teachers, librarians, principals, etc are.
 
No one in this thread, nor the article itself, noted that one of the judges that wrote an opinion in this case is Korean.

Shockingly, Judge Lee didn’t think Korean women should have to look at dicks either, and dissented like Judge VanDyke.

Why is Reason erasing the lived experiences of Asian minorities?
 
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I guess what I'm saying is that if we repealed the Civil Rights Act then judges wouldn't have to write about swinging dicks in their legal opinions.
Washington state passed a law mandating swinging dicks in women's spaces regardless of what the Civil Rights Act says. That's what Olympus Spa is trying to fight against, and anything tranny related is a case of competing rights: religious people not being forced to bend the knee, women not having to deal with swinging dicks where nudity is expected or required, and the "right" of troons to swing their dicks wherever they please.
 
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