Supreme Court upholds Tennessee law that bars gender-affirming care for minors - You mean kids will be able to keep their healthy bodies and not be mangled experiments? Are you daft?!

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The U.S. Supreme Court
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In a decision that plunged the Supreme Court into yet another culture war feud, the justices on Wednesday upheld a Tennessee law banning all gender affirming care for minors. In the last few years, fully half the states have adopted similar bans, leaving the other half, so far, allowing gender affirming care in the form of at minimum, hormone treatments prior to a teenager turning 18.


The vote was 6-to-3, along conservative/liberal lines.


Supporters of the bill were predictably elated over the win. As state Sen. Jack Johnson, the sponsor or the bill, put it in an interview with NPR late last year, the state bars minors from getting tattoos, or smoking, or drinking and, as he observed, "We regulate a number of different types of [medical] procedures, and we felt like this was the best public policy to prevent kids from suffering from irreversible consequences, things that cannot be undone."


The court fight over access to puberty blockers and other treatments for gender dysphoria was brought by three teenagers and their parents in Tennessee. They claimed that the ban on these treatments violated the constitutional guarantee to equal protection of the law by barring certain treatments only for kids who want to transition from their sex assigned at birth, while at the same time allowing the same medications to treat minors suffering from other conditions, everything from endometriosis to delaying the early onset of puberty.


The ACLU, which represented the challengers in the case, countered that the treatments that were at issue in Wednesday's case were endorsed as appropriate for teenagers by the major medical associations that deal with gender dysphoria, including the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Association of Clinical Endocrinology, and the American Psychological Association.


But state Sen. Johnson points out that many countries in Western Europe have been dealing with this issue for much longer than the United States, and many of them in recent years have pulled back "because they're seeing that the adverse effects of some of these medications far outweigh any benefit they have."


Wednesday's Supreme Court decision was a big win for Tennessee and 24 other states, but there are many questions that remain unanswered. Can doctors continue previous treatments if taking kids off the medications is deemed too risky? And what about all the issues that have roiled institutions ranging from school boards to team sports. None of those has been resolved, so far anyway. Nor has the court yet tackled the question of parental rights to determine treatments for their kids.

Article.
 
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Declining to offer personal information isn't "outing myself as trans." It's declining to offer personal information. As for autism, I am not diagnosed as autistic, but I suspect that I might be, based on prevalence in my biological family and high scores on indicator tests.
 
The counterfeit dollar bill is a funny example to use. I remember working retail and there would always be some junkie trying to pass off fake money as real. Sometimes it was so obvious that you knew right away it was fake. Every now and then though, you'd get one that looked real at a glance, but once you handled it, it became very obvious it was fake, seeing as real money is made of cloth and fake money is made of paper. Of course these junkies would try to argue "No! It's REAL money!" until you bring out the counterfeit pen... then they either ran out of the store or tried to blame someone else for giving them fake money. Just like troons, fake bills do not pass!

(For those who are unaware, a counterfeit pen is a marker with special ink in it, when you draw on the dollar bill, if the ink shows up dark, then it's a fake dollar)
The point of the example is that there's a spectrum of counterfeit bills, from the immediately obvious counterfeits to those that pass nearly every test. At a fundamental level, there's nothing precluding a counterfeit passing basically every test; at some point, it passes well enough that the only difference is that it is counterfeit. Functionally, there's no difference and it could circulate some indefinite period of time unless/until some definitive test was performed on it. Obviously, most people aren't equipped to perform such a test, and for all intents and purposes, the counterfeit bill might as well be real.

We're like maybe a century in to attempting to make counterfeit men/women. And there's not nearly as much opposition to counterfeit people as there is to counterfeit bills.
 
Declining to offer personal information isn't "outing myself as trans." It's declining to offer personal information. As for autism, I am not diagnosed as autistic, but I suspect that I might be, based on prevalence in my biological family and high scores on indicator tests.
I'm going with autistic female. I have no evidence, it's just a vibe. I know you're not going to answer anyway, just throwing my headcanon out there into the mix.
 
We're like maybe a century in to attempting to make counterfeit men/women. And there's not nearly as much opposition to counterfeit people as there is to counterfeit bills.
Even if that were true (Big doubt), what does the future have to do with our current reality? RIGHT NOW there is zero ways to change your sex, there is not one surgery or medical intervention that changes your sex or even comes close to it. Even the top tier 0.01% of passing troons still don't pass in the end. What we have right now does nothing but mutilate the patient's healthy bodies (surgery) and make them feel sick (HRT). Troon surgeons and doctors can't even agree on a standard level of care for their butchery. It makes perfect sense to ban these practices as it stands right now, not some weird "Well in the future things will improve" belief.
 
The point of the example is that there's a spectrum of counterfeit bills, from the immediately obvious counterfeits to those that pass nearly every test. At a fundamental level, there's nothing precluding a counterfeit passing basically every test; at some point, it passes well enough that the only difference is that it is counterfeit. Functionally, there's no difference and it could circulate some indefinite period of time unless/until some definitive test was performed on it. Obviously, most people aren't equipped to perform such a test, and for all intents and purposes, the counterfeit bill might as well be real.

We're like maybe a century in to attempting to make counterfeit men/women. And there's not nearly as much opposition to counterfeit people as there is to counterfeit bills.
Everything has an opportunity cost. Spending 100 years, generations, of effort to make an anti-chromosomal facsimile is so much effort down the drain. We could make polka-dotted elephants or breed chickens in velociraptors.
 
Declining to offer personal information isn't "outing myself as trans." It's declining to offer personal information. As for autism, I am not diagnosed as autistic, but I suspect that I might be, based on prevalence in my biological family and high scores on indicator tests.
You're autistic. The inability to read the room is a guaranteed sign of autism, and you're doing that.

You come into a thread talking about troonery being banned from hurting kids and instead of focusing on the thread, you become an autistic sperg nitpicking and WELL AKSHULLY-ing someone's flippant exaggeration about how the leftist space has disproportionately a high number of troons in it by trying to point out the right wing lolbertardian places tons of them.

Second off, that is *wrong*. That "space" has a disproportionate number of Ron Paul lolbertarians who defend their libertarian ideals even at the cost of social and national harmony. But most of them don't troon out - they just are their own brand of smug loser because they're sure of themselves because they're not those bad evil right wing STATIST TRUMP SUPPORTERS, just a reverse world version of what your average leftist Redditard is. You unironically call the degenerates in these "spaces" with obviously mentally ill AGPs as "women". Stop it.

Thirdly, you openly told someone you wouldn't give your 'identifier' (power word: pronouns) and someone specifically asked you a loaded question that should've been answered with "i'm a guy" or "i'm a girl". Here's a hint: This site isn't 4chan. Saying you're female on this board doesn't put a giant target on your back for us to bother you. Many women have shared their experiences seeing their female friends and relatives turn into pooners. This issue affects women because AGPs are trying to redefine what ACTUALLY being a woman is.

Want proof of that thread? Look at what happens - people don't turn into anti-trans overnight. I made my contribution there about my friend of 15+ years who got sucked into that cult.


You're 100% giving off autism vibes. That's cool, but work on your self-awareness, because your autism is blatantly showing in this thread. You're not going to get much sympathy from this site because there is a disproportionate amount of trans "women" who become insufferable lolcows to a point where this site has an entire fucking Subforum dedicated to them. That ideology disproportionately preys on mentally ill men and women and it has no fucking business being anywhere near children.

Also if you *are* an autistic woman, you'll probably fit in well with this site considering our brand of humor and relentless pursuit of information.
 
Even if that were true (Big doubt), what does the future have to do with our current reality? RIGHT NOW there is zero ways to change your sex, there is not one surgery or medical intervention that changes your sex or even comes close to it. Even the top tier 0.01% of passing troons still don't pass in the end. What we have right now does nothing but mutilate the patient's healthy bodies (surgery) and make them feel sick (HRT). Troon surgeons and doctors can't even agree on a standard level of care for their butchery. It makes perfect sense to ban these practices as it stands right now, not some weird "Well in the future things will improve" belief.
IMO, these doctors should get the death penalty. But so what? The actual facts on the ground are that there's loads of people who are content enough with the current state of medical butchery to make them some sort of facsimile of the opposite sex, and there's not sufficient opposition to the practice to outlaw it, much less put practitioners to death.

And that will continue to be the case going forward. And the tech will improve, because that's what tech does. As the tech improves, do you think there will likely be more or fewer people who will utilize it? My bet is more. It's hard to envision a scenario were "fewer" is somehow the outcome. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, while it's true that there's been several setbacks for total tranny insanity, the fact remains that there's virtually no mainstream opposition to the practice per se; rather, it's limited to supposed "excesses" such as transing children, or letting men pummel women in a UFC cage. "Transphobia" is something which can get you fired from your job damn near world-wide, so that's done and dusted.
 
Look, I came in, got things off topic, apologized. Who's keeping things off topic now? Thank you for taking the time to let me know all of that, and I did read all of it (well, I have the linked thread open in another tab). I sincerely appreciate it. I'm going to move on now.

I read the article "Inauthentic Selves" linked in this thread days ago. It took me a while because I didn't want to skim it and I read all of the linked articles in it as well, or at least the abstracts. Still processing my thoughts on it. I will say that did more to inform me about what "gender affirming care for minors" can actually entail and what exactly can go wrong with it than anything I'd read prior. Why do people lead with bigotry? It's horrible optics. That article wasn't anti-LGBT at all. It was actually concerned about the welfare of children. I hear "TTD," I'm running in the other direction. I read this article, I'm listening to it, mulling it over.
 
You know what I shouldn't be surprised about this. But I am.
From what I've heard after estrogen got axed as a treatment for post-menopausal women the pharma companies decided to push for trannies as a way to make up their losses.
 
Look, I came in, got things off topic, apologized. Who's keeping things off topic now? Thank you for taking the time to let me know all of that, and I did read all of it (well, I have the linked thread open in another tab). I sincerely appreciate it. I'm going to move on now.

I read the article "Inauthentic Selves" linked in this thread days ago. It took me a while because I didn't want to skim it and I read all of the linked articles in it as well, or at least the abstracts. Still processing my thoughts on it. I will say that did more to inform me about what "gender affirming care for minors" can actually entail and what exactly can go wrong with it than anything I'd read prior. Why do people lead with bigotry? It's horrible optics. That article wasn't anti-LGBT at all. It was actually concerned about the welfare of children. I hear "TTD," I'm running in the other direction. I read this article, I'm listening to it, mulling it over.
I can't speak for everyone on the farms (nor would I even attempt to), but I suspect that a lot of people (myself included) are being hyperbolic when we stay stuff like TTD, "go join the 41% brigade", etc. We're tired of the lectures, the struggle sessions, the prospect of financial and reputational harm solely from expressing dissent towards the progressive liberals non-stop virtue signaling. KF is a place people can just express their frustrations openly, and with some measure of security (assuming proper opsec is followed). Some of it is unhealthy, sure, but have you seen some of the unhinged rants that are starting to manifest now that these ghouls have started to lose their institutional power?
 
I can't speak for everyone on the farms (nor would I even attempt to), but I suspect that a lot of people (myself included) are being hyperbolic when we stay stuff like TTD, "go join the 41% brigade", etc. We're tired of the lectures, the struggle sessions, the prospect of financial and reputational harm solely from expressing dissent towards the progressive liberals non-stop virtue signaling. KF is a place people can just express their frustrations openly, and with some measure of security (assuming proper opsec is followed). Some of it is unhealthy, sure, but have you seen some of the unhinged rants that are starting to manifest now that these ghouls have started to lose their institutional power?
This is the only space as a woman I can talk about any of this because true women's spaces are in another direction of extreme with pure male hatred being their gatekeeper against trannys. I don't hate men for existing, but I do hate trans women trying to tell me how womanhood is while directly ignoring me as an actual woman because my experience doesn't affirm their fetish. It's insane that the only space I can speak my mind and comment on situations I can relate to is the "Nigger Faggot" Chris Chan archive website forum. With any open speech place you have to accept that people are speaking freely, be it agreeable or not. You don't like what some retard is saying? Wow just don't interact, or do, who cares as long as you aren't shitting up the thread. You don't get a ban hammer for wrong think, you don't get janny'd for not sucking gock, and you don't get ostracized for saying trans women flaunting their male sex organ isn't womanly.

More on thread topic, has this ruling resulted in any other states following in Tennessee's footsteps?
 
(...)

has this ruling resulted in any other states following in Tennessee's footsteps?
The TN case was an inflection point for several others states legislature (~25 or so) that would have been impacted by an adverse ruling (and, by extent, a favorable one).

I don't have the list handy, but a simple Google Kagi / DDG search should yield what you're looking for.
 
Why do people lead with bigotry? It's horrible optics. That article wasn't anti-LGBT at all. It was actually concerned about the welfare of children. I hear "TTD," I'm running in the other direction. I read this article, I'm listening to it, mulling it over.
TTD et. al are just site culture. If you want well-reasoned, polite argumentation, check out Helen Joyce, Hannah Barnes, and other female authors who've spoken about this topic at length. Kiwi Farms doesn't exist to convince liberals who are on the fence, it exists to document lunacy of every type and provide people with a forum where they can freely speak about said lunacy in ways that would get you banned on most other websites.
 
Look, I came in, got things off topic, apologized. Who's keeping things off topic now? Thank you for taking the time to let me know all of that, and I did read all of it (well, I have the linked thread open in another tab). I sincerely appreciate it. I'm going to move on now.

I read the article "Inauthentic Selves" linked in this thread days ago. It took me a while because I didn't want to skim it and I read all of the linked articles in it as well, or at least the abstracts. Still processing my thoughts on it. I will say that did more to inform me about what "gender affirming care for minors" can actually entail and what exactly can go wrong with it than anything I'd read prior. Why do people lead with bigotry? It's horrible optics. That article wasn't anti-LGBT at all. It was actually concerned about the welfare of children. I hear "TTD," I'm running in the other direction. I read this article, I'm listening to it, mulling it over.
God fucking damnit.

You just don't get it, do you? You're doing the equivalent of concern trolling that has got us to where we are in the first place.

People "lead with bigotry" because we see a CONSISTENT pattern of AGPs and mentally ill assholes online trying to control the speech and dynamics of what we can talk about. If you continue with this stupid rhetoric, *you are adding to it*. You don't even understand why there's such a visceral reaction to trans ideology, it's because it preys on the weak, vulnerable, and ill. Pattern recognition, bud, do you see it? Turn off your autism blinders for a sec and look around you.

I can tell you didn't even visit the thread I linked that was full of people who lost their friends and family to troonery/autogynophelia and had to break ties when these mentally ill people used it as a form of religion to "see God". It's exactly like losing your friends and family to a cult. They use it to escape from their problems and victimize themselves as a coping mechanism for their mental illness and are told by other trans that their family rejecting them is a sign that they should cut ties with their family because they're bigots/"transphobes". What does that sound like to you? Have you heard of what Scientologists call people who try to pull their loved ones out of their cult? Suppressive persons - different label, same fucking concept.

Do you ever wonder why so many trans people have a shitload of mental illnesses? It isn't because they're laughed at or mocked by people who think they're not trans - you don't turn into a narcissistic psychopath if you are teased as a kid - many of us were bullied as children. The problem with these people is a majority of them use it as a REPLACEMENT for an identity to cope with their mental illnesses, as a shield to make them feel special, and as a means to have some sort of "belonging" to a group of people who are just as fucked up as they are.

Go to the Stinkditch forum and read about all the lolcows we deal with. There is a pattern there, and many of them have gone out of their way to harass other people for disagreeing with them or refusing to entertain their delusions.

Instead of looking at what's in fucking front of you, you concern troll because you are offended about 41% jokes and "TTD". That goes to show you do not have the mental temerity to participate in a discussion about this. This is a *you* problem, not a problem with the members of this site.

For fucks sake bud, sit down and think about what you're saying. By the way, I'm pretty sure the forums stopped giving a shit about the optics when another troon named Keffals tried to get this place shut down. Have you heard of that? No? Then lurk more and read more.
 
I can tell you didn't even visit the thread...
I did, actually, and had intended to come back and talk about it eventually, it's long and I'm going through it a bit at a time.

...you concern troll because you are offended about... "TTD"...
I think the idea of me being the kind of person that likes to engage in "concern trolling" or getting easily worked up or offended over something, then deciding to come make a Kiwi Farms account, would be pretty funny. Just because I personally objected to "TTD" (and only mentioned it when we got into meta discussion after twenty pages of thread) doesn't mean I'm "offended." I've been on the internet before.

...Keffals tried to get this place shut down. Have you heard of that?
Yes, I have, I was lurking on-and-off at the time and saw discussion of it in other online spaces I was a part of. I also went over the thread on Keffals the other day.
 
In its order list today, SCOTUS granted cert and remanded several cases back to their respective Circuit Courts for further consideration in light of Skrmetti. These cases include:

Crouch v. Anderson (4th Circuit):
1. Whether West Virginia violated the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment by declining to cover surgical treatments for gender dysphoria; and
2. Whether West Virginia violated the Medicaid Act and the Affordable Care Act by declining to cover surgical treatments for gender dysphoria.

Folwell v. Kadel (4th Circuit):
Whether a State’s decision to decline to provide health benefit coverage for treatments leading to sex changes violates the Equal Protection Clause.

Hamso v. M.H. (9th Circuit):
1. Whether a policy declining coverage for sexreassignment surgeries violates the Equal Protection Clause; and
2. Whether clearly established law as of July 2022 held that a policy declining coverage for sex reassignment surgeries violates the Equal Protection Clause.

Stitt v. Fowler (10th Circuit):
Whether the Equal Protection Clause requires a State to alter its official certificate documenting a person’s sex at birth to represent that person’s current gender identity.

Ahhhhh, precedent. Smells like...sanity.
 
Can't wait until they all turn on their own, oh wait:
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And that is not legitimate government action. Due process claims can show the cruelty of the law, but equal protection doesnt look that closely at the outcomes.

These bad decisions are in large part the result of bad lawyering by our "advocates". The ACLU doesnt care about trans people. Their goal is to make aggressive arguments in favor of "autonomy" which usually means asking for too much and not presenting the right issues. Skrmetti is the perfect example of a case that asked all the wrong questions. Bad lawyering makes bad law.

There is a lot of hope. This is our Bowers v Hardwick moment. Our Lawrence moment is awaiting us once the legal arguments start to get more focused and presented better by better constitutional lawyers.
 
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