Biological Sex & Gender
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Altissimo said:Satan said:These new pronouns won't be accepted generally. Ever. Because they make transsexual people sound like aliens instead of people and I don't think any sane person would strive for such craziness. If you identify as a dude you want to be "him", if you are a girl it's "her" and if you are unsure or neither, "they". Everything else is simply bullshit to make the person in question feel special. Ain't nobody got time for that.
But, how can you be the one to say that people who don't identify as male or female should use "they", when you're not the one who is faced with the decision of having to find something that's not he or she to use? One of my closest friends uses the pronouns vi/vir/vim and I'm not sure how you can really say it's just vim trying to feel special when vi's the one that decided to use those pronouns instead of any other options? I know that "they" can feel super-impersonal for some trans* people because of the fact that its original definition is a plural, regardless of how it is used nowadays - certainly if I were not male or female I don't think I'd be super comfortable using "they" since it would be impersonal to me.
I'm not a social justice warrior, I just want to make that clear, but I do have many friends that are trans* and as a result I've developed a rather defensive stance on these issues.
I don't believe there's any other gender but male or female because it doesn't make any medical sense. What happens in utero, physiologically, is that every brain starts as female and undergoes varying degrees of masculinization. Unless you're talking about a split right down the middle, which is the only thing I could concieve of in theory, albeit something that would be very rare.
Gender identity is not a free-for-all, make-it-up kind of affair anymore than it would be to call yourself otherkin. You can believe whatever you want but don't impose non-scientific thinking on the rest of us. There's simply nothing supporting it and if you're personally dissatisfied with both male and female, you're deluded and need help.
I've talked to a few people who staunchly insisted they were "animals inside". Do you expect me to take something equally as unsubstantiated (if not less ludicrious) seriously?
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KatsuKitty said:Altissimo said:Satan said:These new pronouns won't be accepted generally. Ever. Because they make transsexual people sound like aliens instead of people and I don't think any sane person would strive for such craziness. If you identify as a dude you want to be "him", if you are a girl it's "her" and if you are unsure or neither, "they". Everything else is simply bullshit to make the person in question feel special. Ain't nobody got time for that.
But, how can you be the one to say that people who don't identify as male or female should use "they", when you're not the one who is faced with the decision of having to find something that's not he or she to use? One of my closest friends uses the pronouns vi/vir/vim and I'm not sure how you can really say it's just vim trying to feel special when vi's the one that decided to use those pronouns instead of any other options? I know that "they" can feel super-impersonal for some trans* people because of the fact that its original definition is a plural, regardless of how it is used nowadays - certainly if I were not male or female I don't think I'd be super comfortable using "they" since it would be impersonal to me.
I'm not a social justice warrior, I just want to make that clear, but I do have many friends that are trans* and as a result I've developed a rather defensive stance on these issues.
I don't believe there's any other gender but male or female because it doesn't make any medical sense. What happens in utero, physiologically, is that every brain starts as female and undergoes varying degrees of masculinization. Unless you're talking about a split right down the middle, which is the only thing I could concieve of in theory, albeit something that would be very rare.
Gender identity is not a free-for-all, make-it-up kind of affair anymore than it would be to call yourself otherkin. You can believe whatever you want but don't impose non-scientific thinking on the rest of us. There's simply nothing supporting it and if you're personally dissatisfied with both male and female, you're deluded and need help.
I've talked to a few people who staunchly insisted they were "animals inside". Do you expect me to take something equally as unsubstantiated (if not less ludicrious) seriously?
What about being hermaphrodite/intersexed? That is a legitimate medical issue.
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Altissimo said:Satan said:These new pronouns won't be accepted generally. Ever. Because they make transsexual people sound like aliens instead of people and I don't think any sane person would strive for such craziness. If you identify as a dude you want to be "him", if you are a girl it's "her" and if you are unsure or neither, "they". Everything else is simply bullshit to make the person in question feel special. Ain't nobody got time for that.
But, how can you be the one to say that people who don't identify as male or female should use "they", when you're not the one who is faced with the decision of having to find something that's not he or she to use? One of my closest friends uses the pronouns vi/vir/vim and I'm not sure how you can really say it's just vim trying to feel special when vi's the one that decided to use those pronouns instead of any other options? I know that "they" can feel super-impersonal for some trans* people because of the fact that its original definition is a plural, regardless of how it is used nowadays - certainly if I were not male or female I don't think I'd be super comfortable using "they" since it would be impersonal to me.
I'm not a social justice warrior, I just want to make that clear, but I do have many friends that are trans* and as a result I've developed a rather defensive stance on these issues.
It's just a bit too much for me that's all. I totally think everyone should be able to call vi\zi\zir\xim, whatever xor\xir\zex\qwertyuiop wants to call themselves, but really... unless someone is medically intersexed I see no reason for *trans* people to not go by either him or her. Quite frankly, it would give me a headache. Now I have not encountered many transsexuals myself but the few I've met through mutual friends were male-to-female and some of them rather masculine in appearance. They insisted on being "she", so she it was.
Most people identify as either male or female. And most intersexed people or hermaphrodites, too, typically display more characteristics of one gender over an other. In most cases a more feminine looking hermaprhodite would identify as female, and vice versa. If someone is undecided on what exactly he or she wishes to identify as, fine by me. But I am not going to use pronouns that make a person sound like an alien rather then a human being. This whole trend I believe originated on tumblr and if it wasn't for some people online with special snowflake syndrome, I don't believe there would ever have been pronouns beyond he, she and they.
Quite frankly, I find it almost a bit insulting to the vast majority of people with gender issues to insist on such ridiculous pronouns, as it reflects negatively on the group as a whole and that's a shame. They face their fair share of discrimination already and insisting on being called by pronouns such as these harms xi\xir\zir\zim\zippity-doo's credibility.
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I would like to argue and I'm fairly sure I could make a decent case for myself but debates in general tend to make me angry really easily and frankly I just don't feel like getting angry.
no but seriously that is the legit reason why i'm withdrawing my arguments. because I don't wanna get angry.
no but seriously that is the legit reason why i'm withdrawing my arguments. because I don't wanna get angry.
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KatsuKitty said:Altissimo said:Satan said:These new pronouns won't be accepted generally. Ever. Because they make transsexual people sound like aliens instead of people and I don't think any sane person would strive for such craziness. If you identify as a dude you want to be "him", if you are a girl it's "her" and if you are unsure or neither, "they". Everything else is simply bullshit to make the person in question feel special. Ain't nobody got time for that.
But, how can you be the one to say that people who don't identify as male or female should use "they", when you're not the one who is faced with the decision of having to find something that's not he or she to use? One of my closest friends uses the pronouns vi/vir/vim and I'm not sure how you can really say it's just vim trying to feel special when vi's the one that decided to use those pronouns instead of any other options? I know that "they" can feel super-impersonal for some trans* people because of the fact that its original definition is a plural, regardless of how it is used nowadays - certainly if I were not male or female I don't think I'd be super comfortable using "they" since it would be impersonal to me.
I'm not a social justice warrior, I just want to make that clear, but I do have many friends that are trans* and as a result I've developed a rather defensive stance on these issues.
I don't believe there's any other gender but male or female because it doesn't make any medical sense. What happens in utero, physiologically, is that every brain starts as female and undergoes varying degrees of masculinization. Unless you're talking about a split right down the middle, which is the only thing I could concieve of in theory, albeit something that would be very rare.
Gender identity is not a free-for-all, make-it-up kind of affair anymore than it would be to call yourself otherkin. You can believe whatever you want but don't impose non-scientific thinking on the rest of us. There's simply nothing supporting it and if you're personally dissatisfied with both male and female, you're deluded and need help.
I've talked to a few people who staunchly insisted they were "animals inside". Do you expect me to take something equally as unsubstantiated (if not less ludicrious) seriously?
So you WOULD consider someone who gets a sex change as whatever gender they identify as?
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- Feb 3, 2013
Picklepower said:
Yes, of course. I figured everyone would know I fully support trans people (i.e. going from male to female or female to male) since that is a fairly established, well-researched phenomon. In fact, the surgery isn't even a prerequisite.
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- Oct 9, 2013
Just to let you know the MLA (modern Language Association) deemed it grammatically correct to use plural pronouns (their, they) in the place of singular gendered pronouns (he, she) in situations where gender is non-binary, unclear, or for trans individuals who don't use a gendered pronoun. They did this because while the English language does have a gender neutral pronoun, "it", people don't generally like being called, "it". It's dehumanizing for one thing, and just plain rude.
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My life is invalid, time to die.Dr. Cuddlebug said:
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- May 27, 2013
I don't think people should go so extreme as to ruin their bodies, but if you think maybe you were supposed to be born as the opposite sex, then that's your prerogative.
I'd probably be better off if I was born a woman. Or if I had a little brother.
I'd probably be better off if I was born a woman. Or if I had a little brother.
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TrippinKahlua said:
It's only "ruining your body" if you settle for hack job surgery. Alteration of your body to make it what you want is hardly damaging it.
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Dr. Cuddlebug said:
all of my rage
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More on Did You Know's Tumblr
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Meet Stanyslas Fedyanin, a 16-year-old guy from Moscow, Russia, who has gained notoriety for his very successful career as an international female body. Stas, as he likes to be called, says he is heterosexual, and even has a girlfriend, he just has an androgynous figure that makes him perfect for female modelling.
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KatsuKitty said:
I bet Advanced would be raging even more.
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Sorry to reply to this when you posted it almost a month ago, but I wanted to say it now while the thread is bumped up.KatsuKitty said:
There is no such thing as "medical" or "biological" gender. Sex is what type of body you were born with. Gender is what's in your head and pervasive in society (which is why I'm confused as to why you believe brains start as female in utero--I'm genuinely curious about this).
Just because there is "nothing supporting it" doesn't mean it isn't 100% real for people who identify as a gender not commonly recognized by our society.
Also, I find it somewhat insulting that you compare non-binary people with otherkin. Gender is a social construct and has nothing to do with biology. Species is...well, not a social construct.
Your viewpoint also makes me curious what you think about intersex people (people who were born with both male and female reproductive organs)? Should they be forced to choose between two very dichotomized gender roles? What if they legitimately identify with aspects of both masculinity and femininity?
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It's worth noting that in the womb all humans are developed as female until the Y Chromosome kicks in, which causes the male traits to develop. It's why males have nipples that go unused. At the same time though sex is determined by the Sperm and what chromosomes it has. That is done right when the sperm is made. Consciousness and memory aren't supposed to develop til 5 months old.Dale Cooper said:
I remember from my Biology class, there are Chromosomal abnormalities where a person is born without a second X or a Y chromosome, and they are automatically made female. I can't remember what the condition was specifically named though.
This does bring about an interesting debate about stuff like consciousness and what gender conclusively refers to. As well as how we should define sex both legally and socially. I know some prisons define sex based on genitalia and nothing else.
Nonbinary.org defines Transgender as a non-binary genderDale Cooper said:
http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Nonbinary_gender