Culture Wars General - KiA Diet Coke Edition

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It's possible, Japan does have a SJW movement even if it is laughed at, but I think it's more likely we're seeing a Nintendo Treehouse situation minus the easily identified named groups.

Since I'm too lazy to search the thread to see if it's been mentioned before, the gist is that Nintendo Japan got it's information from games journalists and local divisions (Nintendo Treehouse and Nintendo America for the US). Since all three of those groups are pro social justice, they report that people demand games be censored, and should one group be doubted, the other two will back them up. Nintendo execs aren't going to spend hours a day reading forums and social media.

Censorship via localisation people don't go after the big names because there is too much money and clout on the line. As long as they don't piss off a major publisher, the Japanese side of the company has no reason to doubt them.
The whole thing with the treehouse ordeal and fire emblem played out differently though.

The individuals who were doing the censoring let it be known who they were, that's how everyone found out about Allison Rapp. Realistically if a dangerhair was in such a lofty position, they more than likely could not keep their mouth shut and word would have gotten out by now. And if TLOU2 was any indication they don't exactly have a company wide social media mute policy.

Same with Steam, when they were cutting and pruning games off their platform people found out who the employees were from the employees themselves.
 
This has always existed in games though. People do have to change stuff all the time depending on region so it will sell.
My line you were quoting was referring to censoring the creative work (game) right to the source itself to "appeal" a completely foreign audience (that wasn't/wouldn't be interested in the first place besides generating outrage on internet about how "problematic" the work is) even if said creative work never leaves the shores of its native country. I wasn't talking about localizations even if I consider them generally terrible, a bit too often disrespecting the original work. But that's a different issue altogether compared to the shit Sony California has been pulling since 2018, which is a first time ever on this scale.

But you do not even condemn the Sony censorship in any way, you're actually justifying it to exist and prosper because of your hypothetical talks of global sales figures like a soulless husk of a man in suit.

You will know by now that this kind of crap, alongside of social media-tards making demands towards artists to remove/change their "problematic" artworks (for instance the debacle of Nessa's color skin or Uzaki-chan, but muslims getting assblasted to the point of beheading french people over drawings of Muhammed is closely related too), are my personal berserk buttons.
 
Realistically if a dangerhair was in such a lofty position, they more than likely could not keep their mouth shut and word would have gotten out by now.
I thought they did. I don't remember their names, but I do remember hearing these censorship polices traced back to a few specific people.
 
I thought they did. I don't remember their names, but I do remember hearing these censorship polices traced back to a few specific people.
I have not found or heard any of them personally. the CEOs name was really the only one I've found that's routinely come up. There was one name along side his given in the official announcement rollout but I IIRC she had no part in actually doing it and just was the department head that oversaw more general operations.

People have pestered them in the past but it's been all pointed to the higher ups in terms of who's been dictating things. Basically you're getting to levels of the company which don't budge unless major shareholders are upset.

The response that most have gotten is that it's related to minors or characters who resemble minors in compromising positions and that seems to be the trigger for the policy to enacted. All though there's even some arguable leeway for that considering what has come out since then.
 
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I take it both statements were not from the same person? it's not really surprising that different people have different opinions.
but since you brought it up, what are mobile mechanics? "Time gated resources" and "heavy emphasis on pulling power improvement from a luck based system" (because that's what characters are) are at least 2 decades old, if not more, and I can't remember many people running around with mobile phones in the 90s.

as I said somewhere else, it's just a business model, and you can get fucked over in every business model, it has nothing to do with where it comes from or where it's ubiquitous. there are people who pay repeatedly for content droughts in WoW, a sub based game with microtransactions on top (and shit content inbetween) and it's highly debatable how complete full price games with multiple season passes are - and that's if the game doesn't bomb and you sit on a paperweight that cost 60 bucks (if you didn't shell out for the deluxe edition). maybe people really are dumb and want to be taken advantage of, who knows.

what it comes down to is if you personally get your money's worth or not, and that can happen with full priced games or gatchas. some people are stupid enough to spend hundred if not thousands on it where they don't need to while others get there without spending a dime, just like they buy the biggest edition of every AAA game to consoom without really playing it. if they don't spend it on games they spend it on other shit, people have been stupid with money for centuries, and there were always people willing to take advantage of it. the sad truth is you can't fix stupid.
and most of them are consenting adults allowed to vote, drive, drink and depending on the country allowed to own a gun, if they want to be retarded I'd say they have every right to.

stagnation, well, it never lasts forever. fifa 21 pretty much bombed, madden has been a laughing stock for like ever, netherlands just banned fifa boxes, and if you really just wanted to play some sportsball there's still PES, plus plenty of older game that didn't stop working. in that regard it doesn't really matter how much EA assrapes their licenses. same way there are other games than fortnite, and dota before that, and WoW before that one, after CS was a thing.... you get my drift. the proliferation of indie games is also a thing, it's probably never been easier to make games and get them (crowd)funded than now.

what I would be worried about tho is when taste inevitable shifts, I take a surplus of big animu tiddies over brown and bloom and edgy grimderp everywhere any day.

Energy systems and gacha mechanics are business models that have been pushed more and more. The former has been around since the early 2010s, when big publishers like EA started pushing them in every mobile game. The Simpsons Tapped Out and Dungeon Keeper Mobile being two notable examples. The latter came out of eastern games like Granblue and Kantai Collection. To some extent, one could argue that western devs already had gacha from surprise mechanics (AKA lootboxes).

This matters because back in the ps2/gcn/xbox era, you didn't have these sorts of mechanics. And you certainly didn't have patents for arguably manipulative business such as "dynamic pricing" and "make this player win a few times because they bought a weapon".

I don't pay for most of these AAA games, so I can't tell you, so maybe I'm already priced out/I'm not the demographic. My last 2 months of Steam activity has been indie games in great majority, the rest being niche weeb shit, and I don't play games on phones because I don't like mobile games for the most part. The last AAA games I purchased was Death Stranding, and it doesn't ask me to open my wallet to fill up the energy bar to keep playing, doesn't have "skip the grind" microtransactions, and doesn't have a gacha system. Personally when I see a game with any of those mechanics, I assume it's a lower value product, especially when it asks for a starting price.

On the topic of season passes, I never quite understood why people pay for them. Why do you pay for shit that hasn't come out yet and you don't know if it's any good? I got burned with early access a handful of times and learned my lesson.

It's one thing and perfectly fine to not like certain trends in japanese videogames, I'm also not a big fan of the whole "waifu" obsession and making big money out of it in detriment to the gameplay. But it's another when someone is actively encouraging an american branch of Sony to fuck over foreign creators in censoring 'problematic content' on a recurrent basis, under the justification they should have catered to someone's (or Marissa Moira's) personal tastes in the first place.
Very indifferent of Moira's tastes. So far all I've been seeing is an explanation about why the censorship actually happens. I think Moira is correct on that matter. Whether or not it's a "correct" thing to do is another matter entirely, I'd rather play the original as close to its original interpretation as possible, rather than what localization staff deemed "appropriate".
 
You will know by now that this kind of crap, alongside of social media-tards making demands towards artists to remove/change their "problematic" artworks (for instance the debacle of Nessa's color skin or Uzaki-chan, but muslims getting assblasted to the point of beheading french people over drawings of Muhammed is closely related too), are my personal berserk buttons.
The funny thing is Uzaki-chan is wholly owned by Sony itself. This isn't even taking into account the upcoming Crunchyroll buyout.

I know people have been trying to use her as an anti-censorship thing but they're using it wrong if it's against the parent company itself. There's also the lolicon people trying to hijack anti-censorship issues and are doing the same thing of making their fetish a political stance(and it's too close to comfort with he same group who touted Cuties).

Censorship policies of the past targeted the big boys who were major titles making bank which was usually the rallying cry for people to get organized, but with that not happening and with the fact that Sony is throwing a billion dollars at anime. I think this policy and it's opposition is just going to fade from memory and be quietly ended. The opposition tends to fall into the same pitfalls as SJWs with falling for clickbait or engaging in constant unending outrage stories. They also make extreme stances like "sony isn't a Japanese company anymore" or "Sony doesn't care about Japan" but with Japan Studio making the DES remake(and them having 4 hidden projects that have not yet been listed) and their ongoing heavy investment in anime the evidence doesn't support the argument or viewpoint.

A billion fucking dollars speaks louder than any social media post that supports a pet cause as far as determining what direction they want to go in.

The Crunchyroll buyout will give them heavy leverage with Bandai Namco because all the Western rights to Shonen Jump series go there.

I'm not sure how I feel with them possibly trying to Merge anime with Playstation Plus(it would make more sense for PsNow since that's streaming, but I think movies and games should be separate), but if they can get Bandai to finally release the rest of the Tales series in the west that would be perfectly fine for an outcome. Their limited exclusivity deals tend to net them 80-90% of the lifetime sales of the titles they fund.
 
I give Allison Rapp some credit for being perhaps the only lolcow to realize that shutting up and going away is the only way to get the negative attention to stop.
 
Polygon's Yakuza like a dragon review makes me remember why people hate games journalists.

"This is an extremely well crafted JRPG with an engaging story great characters and tons of content"

Final score 6/10

-2 points for being grindy in some areas and -2 points for "sexism"
 
Polygon's Yakuza like a dragon review makes me remember why people hate games journalists.

"This is an extremely well crafted JRPG with an engaging story great characters and tons of content"

Final score 6/10

-2 points for being grindy in some areas and -2 points for "sexism"
Did they seriously call it a JRPG?
 
Well, I hope none of you were fans of Celeste...
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Maddy Thorson said:
Well, yeah, of course she is. This feels painfully obvious to a lot of (mostly trans) people, and likewise it feels painfully obvious to me too, in retrospect. It has also become painfully obvious to me that I, myself, am trans. But these are things that I was not aware of during the development of Celeste, where I was writing Madeline and speaking from her perspective. Creating Celeste with my friends helped me reach the point where I could realize this truth about myself. During Celeste’s development, I did not know that Madeline or myself were trans. During the Farewell DLC’s development, I began to form a hunch. Post-development, I now know that we both are.

And my gender identity still isn’t all “figured out” by any means. The Celeste community has wanted clarification on Madeline’s identity for a long time now, and I don’t blame anyone for wanting that, but the messy realities of my gender identity and coming out have meant that I needed time before I could talk openly about it.

So, okay, let’s get into the weeds on this.
____________________________________________________

Was Madeline’s transness left intentionally vague in order to make her story more relatable to cis people?​

This wasn’t our intention. Thinking about it though, it begs the question: Why couldn’t a cis person relate to a trans person? Modern trans struggle might be unique in its details, but it is definitely not alien to the human condition. We are people.

When I wrote Celeste I sincerely still believed that I was cisgender, but I was nevertheless waist-deep in gender feelings (among other anxieties). When Madeline looks in the mirror and sees her other self; when she attempts to abandon her reflection, who then drags her down the mountain; when the two reconcile and merge to become stronger and more complete… that was all unknowingly written from a trans perspective. So maybe if you’re a cis person and you personally relate to Madeline, you shouldn’t feel like we pulled one over on you. Instead, you could take this as evidence that trans and cis feelings aren’t so different, that the chasm between transness and cisness isn’t such a wide gulf, and that most of the ways that trans existence are alien to you are the result of unjust social othering and oppression.

If you got something out of Celeste, and now you’re thinking that Madeline being trans ruins that for you, I would take that as a sign that you have some transphobic beliefs to work through.

Here’s something that definitely isn’t true: The reason trans representation is important is because human beings can only relate to characters who are identical to themselves, and any gains in trans representation come with an equal loss for cis folks. That’s ridiculous, and actually the opposite is true. People need to see and feel the experience of those different from themselves, especially from less-privileged groups who they share society with but wield outsize and often invisible power over. Trans folks, and other marginalized groups, have a lot to teach that will help everyone. If you’re cis and Celeste helped you, that’s awesome! That simply means that you learned something about yourself from a trans story.

Better representation benefits everyone. Well, unless you’re profiting off of the suffering of trans people, in which case fuck you.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So… why isn’t her transness explicitly confirmed in the text of the game?​

There is, as they say, a lot to unpack here. I don’t know that I have a satisfactory reply to this question that will tie it all up with a bow. The best that I can do is be transparent, and help you understand where we were coming from. I don’t believe that this is a simple question, and there isn’t a straightforward answer.

We understand that some fans felt hurt by our silence on this after Farewell’s release, and I’m sorry for that. It’s wrapped up in my personal gender identity and it’s messy! I simply didn’t know the words until now.

I mentioned earlier that I didn’t know that Madeline was trans during the development of Celeste, and that I had a hunch when we made Farewell. That was a gradual thing. As time went on post-launch, my personal understanding of Madeline shifted from “maybe she’s trans” to “okay she’s definitely trans”.

We discussed this when writing Farewell, and our conclusion was that we wanted to afford Madeline privacy. That yes, maybe she was trans, but that it really wasn’t any of ours or the player’s business. She is a woman, a human being, and that’s all we need to know until she decides that she wants to tell us more. She didn’t strike us as a person who would publicly identify as trans, certainly not before the events of the main game. We felt that hints, like those in the Farewell ending sequence and on Theo’s InstaPix account, would be more appropriate for her character. I feel conflicted even now while writing this, effectively outing her, because it doesn’t feel entirely fair to her. It’s the same consideration that I would want to be shown to me.

But, of course, Madeline is a fictional character and we are her authors. People have rightly pointed out that there are questions we should consider about what harm we might be doing by “hiding” her identity. But we also considered what harm we would be doing by signaling to players that they are entitled to know whether she is trans, and that it is a vitally important detail worth agonizing over. Trans people shouldn’t be forced to publicly identify as trans in a world that is often hostile to them, and they shouldn’t be reduced to their transness. They should be allowed to live their lives how they want, and everyone should be free to explore their gender identity without feeling pressure to place themselves into simplistic categories for the benefit of others.

We definitely didn’t want it to be a big climactic thing. We didn’t want it to be like Samus removing her helmet at the end of Metroid to reveal that — surprise! — you were a trans woman all along. That kind of thing just feels like a cheap gimmick in this context. It doesn’t feel like it pays enough respect to Madeline, her story, or real life trans folks and the scrutiny they endure.

We also didn’t want to pull a JK Rowling and start inserting details post hoc that might feel insincere or forced. Like sure, whatever you say lady, Dumbledore is gay… it’s convenient that this was never mentioned in the books or carried any weight in the plot. In Celeste, I would argue that Madeline’s transness is meaningfully intertwined with her story, but the base game was subtle about Madeline’s identity and feelings (in part because I wasn’t fully conscious of them), and their metaphorical connection to the gameplay. We preferred continuing that mode of communication over saying “yep, she’s a trans.”

From where we were standing, it felt like the right decision was a light touch, a nod to everyone who had picked up on it that could allow them to discuss the ways that they identified with Madeline more openly, without making a spectacle of outing her. Amora worked with Lena and a few trans friends on the small details that we placed in Madeline’s room for the Farewell ending scene. People noticed right away, to our delight.

To be clear, we don’t believe that explicit trans representation in media is harmful as a blanket judgement. Remember: We were coming from a position of the base game already existing, where I didn’t consciously write Madeline as trans but I was beginning to slowly realize that she and her story were, nonetheless, trans. Navigating how to address that in Farewell is a very different task to planning from scratch how a character’s identity will be introduced and portrayed.

We hoped that the general take-away from Farewell’s breadcrumb trail could be that trans people can exist, and their perspectives are valuable. They can interact with and be relatable to cis people and it doesn’t have to be a big deal. We don’t need to know upfront or at all whether everyone is trans or cis. And we hoped that our trans and questioning fans could relate to and discuss Madeline’s story on their own terms more easily, and feel vindicated.

Of course, we underestimated how much anything less than a full, in-writing confirmation will be endlessly debated as “not enough proof,” to which I ask, where’s the proof that she’s cis?
_________________________________________________

If I could start over from the beginning of Celeste’s development, knowing everything about myself and Madeline that I know now, would I write her differently? Yeah, probably. I didn’t go into this game intending to make a trans story and I would understand my own gender a lot better than I did, that’s for sure. But then again, I’m a very different person and Celeste wouldn’t be the same game. For my part, Celeste is about who I was, which includes that struggle for understanding.

Heck, if we’re time travelling now, I think that most trans people would understand if I have bigger fish to fry as far as getting a redo on major life events with a better understanding of my gender.

Celeste is a game written and designed by a closeted trans person who was struggling with their gender identity, scored by a trans woman, with art and code and sound and other labor from their inspiring and irreplaceable friends. These are the perspectives that we approached this from, and I think that the game reflects that beautifully. I would never claim that anything I have ever done is perfect. I do think that we captured and preserved a few pieces of ourselves and a moment in time pretty nicely, and Madeline’s transness is one part of that.

Thank you so much for playing Celeste, and for caring about Madeline’s story.

With love ❤

-Maddy

I guess that trans pride flag meant something after all.

EDIT: Added archive links and a quote of the article in question.
 
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Came here to post that. Fucking hysterical they take a shot at JK, but then do the exact same thing as her nonetheless.
 
Like sure, whatever you say lady, Dumbledore is gay… it’s convenient that this was never mentioned in the books or carried any weight in the plot.
But that's what good writing is and I'm saying that about a Harry Potter book.

Why would Dumbledore being gay affect the plot in any way? Are you trying to insinuate that gays - and with your game, transgendereds - aren't like normal people or have normal priorities? Like say, a genocidal wizard on a rampage? Would you have preferred Dumbledore just sit on his ass until someone asked him if he was gay? Just sit in a pout as Voldemort laid waste to his school?

It's quite obvious you weren't writing shit and just decided this shit meant what you're saying now. Just like the brothers behind the Matrix when they got warped by their clique.
 
Would you have preferred Dumbledore just sit on his ass until someone asked him if he was gay?
They'd have preferred Dumbledore told Harry every chance he had that he was gay. Nothing suspicious about a teacher telling a prize student from the age of 11 his sexuality when it never is relevant to the conversation, but just shoehorning it in whenever he could.

All of the teacher's sex lives are never discussed. Who Snape loves is mentioned, and Lupin has a kid off-page, but that stuff is kept out of the story because there's no need for it. Doesn't stop the usual whiners, especially ones who now hate JK Rowling for believing biological sex is real, from complaining though.

That some fictional characters are more well-rounded and don't define themselves in as shallow a fashion as these complainers is just an added bonus, and that's true even if you dislike Harry Potter.
 
Wasn't that always the case? I never played Celeste, and never had any interest in it, because what little I saw of it made it look like Tumblr: The Game. Praised by troons and woke people almost exclusively for vague reasons.

There was as much evidence supporting her being a tranny as there was for Dumbledore being gay. The developers were even accused of queer baiting back in the day as they couldn't be bothered to commit to the idea.

This is identical to any other retcon, just attached to a soppy manifesto.
 
Well, I hope none of you were fans of Celeste...
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I guess that trans pride flag meant something after all.

EDIT: Added archive links and a quote of the article in question.
Was that a surprise to anyone playing Celeste? Were the Tumblr noses, the plot of the game, Madeline's doppelganger coming out of a mirror, and Madeline's haircut not indicative enough that this is a game made by trannies? Furthermore, the game is literal autism speedrun simulator.

The trans crowd got in a tizzy because the game needs to outright say that the main character is trans so they can have trans representation. Giving in to them is not the right decision. This line in particular at least shows the author has some level of self-awareness:

Of course, we underestimated how much anything less than a full, in-writing confirmation will be endlessly debated as “not enough proof,” to which I ask, where’s the proof that she’s cis?

Does the game really need to scream at you that the main character is trans?

Came here to post that. Fucking hysterical they take a shot at JK, but then do the exact same thing as her nonetheless.
I don't agree. Most of the plot of Celeste is Madeline not accepting herself. The plot of Harry Potter wasn't Dumbledore having issues being gay.
 
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