Law Trump admin imposes bumpstock ban unilaterally - Hawaii judge, where you at?

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WASHINGTON — The Trump administration on Tuesday issued a new rule banning bump stocks, the attachments that enable semiautomatic rifles to fire in sustained, rapid bursts and that a gunman used to massacre 58 people and wound hundreds of others at a Las Vegas concert in October 2017.

The new regulation, which had been expected, would ban the sale or possession of the devices under a new interpretation of existing law. Americans who own bump stocks would have 90 days to destroy their devices or to turn them in to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The Justice Department said A.T.F. would post destruction instructions on its website.

Bump stocks work by harnessing a firearm’s recoil energy to slide it back and forth to bump against a squeezed trigger, so that it keeps firing without any need for the shooter to pull the trigger again. The Justice Department said that this function transforms semiautomatic weapons, like assault rifles styled on the AR-15, into fully automatic machine guns, which Congress sharply restricted in 1986 — allowing the ban.

“With limited exceptions, the Gun Control Act, as amended, makes it unlawful for any person to transfer or possess a machine-gun unless it was lawfully possessed prior to the effective date of the statute,” the new regulation states. “The bump-stock-type devices covered by this final rule were not in existence prior to the effective date of the statute, and therefore will be prohibited when this rule becomes effective.”

A senior Justice Department official, briefing reporters about the new rule on condition of anonymity, said that it was believed that tens of thousands of bump-stock devices are in circulation, but that more exact figures are unavailable. The official said the department expected that most owners of the devices would comply with the new regulation, and that A.T.F. would investigate and take legal action against those who violate it.

After publishing a proposed version of the rule earlier this year, the government received 119,264 comments in support of it and 66,182 expressing opposition to it, the Justice Department said.

The regulatory move may face a legal challenge. The Justice Department had initially decided that the executive branch lacked the authority to ban bump stocks on its own under existing gun-control laws, and that action in Congress — where it is politically difficult to enact new gun-control legislation — would be necessary to curb legal access to the devices.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/us/politics/trump-bump-stocks-ban.html

Bumpstocks are a somewhat popular firearms accessory that attaches to several popular guns in place of the normal stock and more or less uses the recoil of the firearm to allow you to fire quickly. They're impractical, silly, and mostly just for dumping a few magazines very quickly at milk jugs and soda bottles.

Supposedly, the vegas shooter had one in his possession when he COMP'd an entire country music festival. It has since come to light that while he may have, he also had more effective and already illegal machine gun conversions on hand anyway (a sort of ghetto lightning link sort of device, but I don't want to drift too far off topic). Bump stocks remained relatively obscure outside of a few calls for their banning.

Donald Trump, bizarrely, decided to make it a bit of a personal crusade to ban them, and has been at it for about a year or so now, generally agitating for it after the parkland shootings, which tragically missed david Hogg and also more bizarrely did not involve a bump stock which makes it even more of a head scratcher.

As of today, POTUS has finalized a rule, signed by his acting AG, that states bump stocks are now machine guns and anyone owning them has 90 days to turn them in or destroy them.

Mind, these are not $10 or $20 parts- they generally went for $200-400, and the expectation is that they be destroyed without compensation. And also, the determination that they are illegal comes after the Obama era ATF specifically determining that they were, in fact, legal, and that banning them would require legislative action and be beyond the purview of a regulatory agency.

As a result, multiple organizations have already filed for injunctions against the act, with more to follow. For an extra twist to an already bizarre legal game of twister, the NRA came out in favor of a bump stock ban after the vegas shooting.

Link to a press release from the Gun Owners of America, who largely pushed what became DC v Heller, aka the SCOTUS decision which enshrined the individualist second amendment (thanks, Scalia!).

(CORRECTION: that was the second amendment foundation, not GOA)

https://www.gunowners.org/goa-file-bump-stock-suit.htm

Direct link to the text of the ATF rule change banning bumpstocks within 90 days.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5635249/Bump-Stock-Final-Rule.pdf

For those concerned, binary triggers and "gatling" type devices are made mention of and specifically exempted... until next week, when the government decides they are also machine guns after going on record stating to the contrary.

Additionally, nobody knows how many bumpstocks there are, as several companies made them. I have seen estimates from 200-450k. You can't go to a gunshow without seeing dozens of them.
 
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Bump stocks are so retarded. They're just a way to waste expensive ammunition while missing every shot on your target, developing no meaningful marksmanship skills in the process. They're designed to turn a man's tool into a children's toy.

Which makes banning them even dumber. I can't imagine any situation in which a shooter with one is more dangerous than one who's actually aiming his gun. This is the one thing about Trump that really betrays his history as a rich cunt from New York. I love the man but he needs to leave gun legislation the fuck alone.

Edit: also, fuck the NRA for bowing down under pressure and supporting this shit. Ever since they came out with that stance after the Vegas shooting, they've been totally discredited as a defender of the Constitution. It doesn't say "to bear the arms that we like, but not the ones we think are dumb", you fags. It says "arms".
 
Bump stocks are so exceptional. They're just a way to waste expensive ammunition while missing every shot on your target, developing no meaningful marksmanship skills in the process. They're designed to turn a man's tool into a children's toy.

Which makes banning them even dumber. I can't imagine any situation in which a shooter with one is more dangerous than one who's actually aiming his gun. This is the one thing about Trump that really betrays his history as a rich cunt from New York. I love the man but he needs to leave gun legislation the fuck alone.

Edit: also, fuck the NRA for bowing down under pressure and supporting this shit. Ever since they came out with that stance after the Vegas shooting, they've been totally discredited as a defender of the Constitution. It doesn't say "to bear the arms that we like, but not the ones we think are dumb", you fags. It says "arms".
Yeah I know next to nothing about guns, but even I knew while reading this thread that "bump stocks must make accuracy an absolute joke"
 
Ah yes, banning bump stocks surely will stop the machine gun menace of this country. Truly the most harrowing part of our massive gun crime statistic-

Wait what's that? Pistol's are almost always what's used for gun crime? Say it ain't so! And bump stocks don't actually turn semi-auto rifles into a fucking Minimi nor make them any fucking deadlier? Holy fucking shit, that's amazing.

In all seriousness, first him getting triggered by SNL and now this? Does Trump want to piss away his popularity?
Gun control is one of the most contentious topics in the US and he decides to just pour a whole jug of gasoline on it like a moron. I'm partially annoyed and partially shocked. Never really saw this coming nor do I think this is even close to a smart idea. Pissing on the 2nd Amendment is never a good one really.
Unless he's trying to trigger a USSC case or something then I don't know. Could've just sneakily promoted some case that may ongoing somewhere in this country instead.
 
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Now I'm not an expert in guns, but something tells me this won't do shit to stop gun crime and spree killings.
 
Sounds like a political strategy to me. Banning something inconsequential will appease the gun control crowd, while gun enthusiasts have no reason to worry about a worthless part.
 
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I can't wait for the illiterate faggots based patriots over at r/donald to whiteknight their daddy and censor anyone opposing this clear violation of gun rights explain how he is playing high level 22d chess and it is definitely completely the libtards who are at fault and totally not his fault.
 
Bump stocks are dumb as shit and were a loophole to get around existing laws. This seems like they're just closing up that loophole.
 
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Yeah I know next to nothing about guns, but even I knew while reading this thread that "bump stocks must make accuracy an absolute joke"

The really incredible thing about how useless this plan will be is that bump stocks don't actually affect the mechanism of the gun at all. They are just designed to overcome the biomechanical limitations of your hands, since most people can't make extremely fast "pulls" with one finger. As a result, anything that allows you to move the gun back and forth really fast (like a rubber band or a belt loop) will accomplish the exact same effect, just with a little less regularity and safety. Some pro shooters don't even need it, they can just pull the trigger *really* fast due to practice.

If a drunk redneck wants to make his gun shoot FAST N LOUD, he will find a way. This legislation just saves him the 200 dollars he would have spent and trades it for the toes he blows off because he tied his gun to his belt loop.
 
Bump stocks are dumb as shit and were a loophole to get around existing laws. This seems like they're just closing up that loophole.

The issue is that a bumpstock was very much within the limits of the law- the atf defined a machine gun as firing multiple rounds with a single action of the trigger. The bumpstock in no way changed the internal function of a gun or trigger, it just facilitated pulling the trigger faster. Even in the same rule, they point out binary triggers (triggers that fire a round on pull and release, essentially doubling your rate of fire) - which are waaaaay sketchier- are still kosher because they utilize two distinct actions of the trigger- the pull, and the release.

The overarching problem is that this is a product that was previously perfectly fine, legal, and could be purchased in many gun stores and was very widely available. Most people would agree they are kinda stupid, but let's say some guy doesn't get the memo that his plastic hunk of junk is now the same level of illegal as an unregistered or post 86 machine gun, unregistered silencer, or sbr/SBS. That is, a federally prosecuted felony and ten years in prison with a $250000 fine level of illegal. All based on what is just an arbitrary executive decision that is really coming out of left field.

Imagine that hypothetical guy doesn't shoot much and goes to the range in a few months, and some cop with a stick up his ass decides to press the issue. Joe Blow is now getting pounded in the ass, and is ruined for life, over a unilateral and unreviewed decision by a single agency- not even the lawmaking branch of government.
 
The issue is that a bumpstock was very much within the limits of the law- the atf defined a machine gun as firing multiple rounds with a single action of the trigger. The bumpstock in no way changed the internal function of a gun or trigger, it just facilitated pulling the trigger faster. Even in the same rule, they point out binary triggers (triggers that fire a round on pull and release, essentially doubling your rate of fire) - which are waaaaay sketchier- are still kosher because they utilize two distinct actions of the trigger- the pull, and the release.

The overarching problem is that this is a product that was previously perfectly fine, legal, and could be purchased in many gun stores and was very widely available. Most people would agree they are kinda stupid, but let's say some guy doesn't get the memo that his plastic hunk of junk is now the same level of illegal as an unregistered or post 86 machine gun, unregistered silencer, or sbr/SBS. That is, a federally prosecuted felony and ten years in prison with a $250000 fine level of illegal. All based on what is just an arbitrary executive decision that is really coming out of left field.
The ATF made that definition to ban automatic firearms and bump stocks were a stupid way to try and get around the ban. Anyone who didn't see this coming is retarded. Once you get a bunch of dumb fuckers running around with binary triggers claiming that it's a legal automatic firearm those will get banned too.
 
Never really cared for bump stocks, but this is stupid as fuck. I'd rather get an adjustable trigger and fine tune it for accuracy anyway.

The idiots who want this ban are the same idiots who think that the next civil war will be fought with Wal-Mart AR-15s or some dumbass bullshit like that.
 
The idiots who want this ban are the same idiots who think that the next civil war will be fought with Wal-Mart AR-15s or some dumbass bullshit like that.

I mean, people who want this ban know literally nothing about guns or firearm laws. They think you can buy a "machine gun" at a gun show through the "gun show loophole."
 
I mean, people who want this ban know literally nothing about guns or firearm laws. They think you can buy a "machine gun" at a gun show through the "gun show loophole."

You mean I can't buy a full auto machine gun with underbarrel bazooka launcher and a shoulder thingy that goes up and a 30 caliber clip in it through a gun show with no background check and have it shipped to my house within 24 hours?

My social justice professor lied to me... again!
 
My question is if Prontack had a rigged up lightling link why was his rate of fire so shitty and inconsistent.

Also why didn't he just buy a registered machine gun considering he was rich af rather than wasting his money on 6 gorillion ARs he didn't even use.
 
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