Islamophiles / Regressive Left - Liberal non-Muslims who are desperate to protect the Religion of Peace

[Chris did nothing wrong]

That wasn't Hitchens who said that, just a random euphoric.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...-said-that-memorable-line-about-islamophobia/

 

[AnOminous]

That wasn't Hitchens who said that, just a random euphoric.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...-said-that-memorable-line-about-islamophobia/

Surely, you don't mean to suggest someone would just go on the Internet and put a fake quote in someone's mouth!

 

[Cosmos]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali did an interview where she fucking destroys a regressive apologist for Islam. It was filmed 10 years ago, but it's still relevant today.

My favorite part is when the guy got triggered over Ayaan complimenting the United States. He actually said "I can't believe you just said that!" when Ayaan spoke of the American Dream (coming to America with nothing and then prospering with hard work). You can tell that she's a little mad that he outright laughed at her views on America, because she retorts with:

"I read Alexis de Tocqueville and I read about democracy, and I lived in countries that had no democracy... so I don't find myself in the same luxury as you do. You grew up in freedom and you can spit on freedom, because you don't know what it is to not have freedom."

 

[AnOminous]

"I read Alexis de Tocqueville and I read about democracy, and I lived in countries that had no democracy... so I don't find myself in the same luxury as you do. You grew up in freedom and you can spit on freedom, because you don't know what it is to not have freedom."

So basically "check your privilege, you white cunt."

 

[Piga Dgrifm]

That wasn't Hitchens who said that, just a random euphoric.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...-said-that-memorable-line-about-islamophobia/

You really think someone would do that? Just go on the Internet and tell lies?

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali did an interview where she fucking destroys a regressive apologist for Islam. It was filmed 10 years ago, but it's still relevant today.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=08EYqwyns-k
My favorite part is when the guy got triggered over Ayaan complimenting the United States. He actually said "I can't believe you just said that!" when Ayaan spoke of the American Dream (coming to America with nothing and then prospering with hard work). You can tell that she's a little mad that he outright laughed at her views on America, because she retorts with:

"I read Alexis de Tocqueville and I read about democracy, and I lived in countries that had no democracy... so I don't find myself in the same luxury as you do. You grew up in freedom and you can spit on freedom, because you don't know what it is to not have freedom."

Who is this asshole? Every point out of his mouth is "who taught you these American cliches" but bitch, you never lived in the Muslim world so who taught YOU that you can speak about the religion of peace??"

 

[Cosmos]

Who is this asshole? Every point out of his mouth is "who taught you these American cliches" but bitch, you never lived in the Muslim world so who taught YOU that you can speak about the religion of peace??"

That's what pisses me off the most. Some white bread liberal lecturing a black woman from Somalia (who happens to be a victim of female genital mutilation and has been targeted by Islamists for well over a decade) about what Islam and America are actually about. It never occurred to him, not even once, that maybe the reason why Ayaan is so critical of Islam/Islamism is because she was born into it and is still suffering the consequences of escaping from it.

It also never occurred to him that maybe, just maybe, the reason why Ayaan was saying those "cliches" about America is because she actually believes in them; Ayaan herself said that, despite America's many flaws, it's still a land of freedom and opportunity. It's a land where the vast majority of the population adheres to the principle of “I don't agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Considering that Ayaan's friend and collaborator Theo Van Gogh was murdered for exercising his right to free speech, and Ayaan herself has had to live under armed guard for speaking freely, is it any wonder why she appreciates America so much?

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

That's what pisses me off the most. Some white bread liberal lecturing a black woman from Somalia (who happens to be a victim of female genital mutilation and has been targeted by Islamists for well over a decade) about what Islam and America are actually about.

His scoffy "come on, you don't know what you're talking about because I took more liberal arts courses than you" is the absolute definition of the mansplaining these people condemn in everyone else.

 

[The Great Chandler]

Speaking of Ayaan, I came across a video from a few years ago that depicted her as a "Zionist puppet".

The uploader is one of those Muslims who think Zionists are pulling them down.

 

[Cosmos]

There's a great Ask Reddit thread that was posted a few days ago; it asks people who have lived under Sharia Law what their experiences were like. It's really fascinating and I highly recommend reading it. Here are some excerpts from the thread:

Wall of text ahead.

I lived in Saudi Arabia most of my life. Not Saudi myself, and am a woman and left Islam. I hate that place with a passion.

I had to wear a headscarf at the age of nine, lived a segregated life style and in fear of half of the population. I was deprived of my own childhood, and the moment I started wearing a headscarf was the moment I stopped going outside to play because other kids and local imams and religious police would give me shit when they saw a girl in a headscarf at the playground or in the street rollerblading. That's also when my depression started.

I had to have my male guardian's permission to get an education, get a job and even get paid for my job. For my BA I wanted to major in graphic design, which wasn't available in Saudi Arabia. I told my parents that I wanted to go study abroad where my brother was. My papers were ready for submission, but my father went ahead and got me admitted into a public university while I was prepared to study abroad. Neither my permission nor presence were needed. I was at least luckier than two of my friends whose parents didn't allow to go to uni and forced them to marry men twice their age.

I really struggled with freedom of movement. We didn't have a driver, and my brother hated driving me around, so I ended up not leaving the house for months at a time expect for school, uni or work. When I started saving up and later earning money, I would take taxis after I kept going late to work because of my brother. I got sexually harassed by a taxi driver a few times, and I always made sure I'd write down the car plate number, registration number, and if possible the driver's name and phone number. One time was pretty bad that I called the police and told them what had happened. I told them I knew the driver's details, but all I was given was "for your own sake, keep this to yourself." I later made the mistake of telling my mom what happened, minus the police incident and that I had the driver's details. I made her promise not to tell any of my brothers, but she went ahead and told them. They treated me like a gullible idiot for not taking down the driver's details, and ever since then, I wasn't allowed to take taxis or be with a driver by myself, which resulted in my forced isolation at home again. Thing is, I didn't give them the driver's details because I knew they would have just gone and beat him up, and I didn't want that bullshit, but I dug own grave by trusting my mother.

I was even more and more isolated because I wasn't religious and couldn't relate to people around me or even my friends, but I had to pretend to be religious because atheism is treated as terrorism and a threat to national security, and is punishable by death. I couldn't talk about it even to my closest friends.

There was one time when I was in court, and I see a mother with at least 7 children. She came to me for help because she was illiterate and wanted me to fill out a complaint form for her. Her complaint? Her husband married a second wife and made them live in the same house together, and he beat her in front of her children and second wife. Her problem? In order to file a lawsuit, she needs consent from her male guardian, who also happens to be her abuser. She had no other male guardians alive.

So yeah, Saudi Arabia is a shit place for women, but whenever I protested to the people I knew, I was accused of being too westernized or that I was some oversensitive special snowflake and didn't know my place.

As sad as it sounds, my father's death was my ticket out of there. I worked for 4 years, hardly spent anything so I can afford to do my master's abroad, got my admission letters, then told my family. My mom tried to accompany me and my brothers tried to push for that, but because of her visa status, she couldn't come, so I got really lucky. I've been married to an amazing ex-Muslim for a couple of years now, and was living with him before we got married. My family think he's Muslim, and they don't know we were in a relationship before that, and every time I forget my rights and start doubting my self worth as a human being, he's there to remind me of what I'm worth.

If you're a woman in Saudi Arabia or any similar place, I hope with all my heart you'll find your ticket out of there.

Edit: I'm feeling quite overwhelmed by the support I'm getting. Thank you all so much. <3 I don't feel like I've had it as bad as other people, and I'm forever grateful for getting out of that situation. At the same time, I'm starting to feel really uncomfortable with the anti-immigration sentiment that I feel my comment has stirred. The West IS bombing the Middle East and supporting terrorism and dictatorships, and immigrants are escaping because they want decent lives, and what's happening is partly the fault of western governments as well as dictatorships in the Middle East. But I also come from a country that's governed by Islamic sharia, and this anti-immigration bullshit would mean I shouldn't be able to have escaped my situation. I left Islam, but Muslims are also my friends and family, and they also deserve to have their basic human rights, which include freedom of thought and religion, as long as they don't harm others and their freedoms.

I lived for six years in Dubai as a western expat. Dubai seems very "modernised" but the law is still sharia, and if they want to come down on you like a tonne of bricks, they can and they will.

It's always much tougher for South and East Asian migrant workers who are treated like slaves. Westerners do get an easier experience, kind of like expats in Jeddah on compounds where life can be pretty "free" compared to the streets of Riyadh.

In Dubai a lot of westerners took stupid risks, like drugs and so on. Basically if recreational drugs is part of your lifestyle, a posting in the Gulf is not for you. Likewise if you're an alcoholic, or someone of Muslim heritage who drinks (Muslims will get prosecuted in certain situations for alcohol whereas westerners won't).

You could get away with living with a partner unmarried, but you needed to keep the bills and rent in one person's name, and live discreetly. Most landlords will turn a blind eye but if neighbours complain, they're obliged to act.

The main issue is getting raped, particularly by a local. If you are sexually assaulted by an Emirati, just leave the country. Cut your losses, get the medical help and counselling you need in your home country, but don't bother pursuing it. Because the perpetrators will almost certainly get off scot free and you (as a woman) may get imprisoned for sex before marriage. As a raped man it may even be worse if you got charged with homosexuality, even if you were straight.

Always remember that it's one rule for locals and one rule for expats, and literally no one - the UAE or your own government - gives a shit about you if you're Chinese or Indian.

My mom got sexually harrassed while working with a patient in Saudi Arabia. When she slapped him, he complained and she had to flee the country. Qataris, Emiratis, Saudis are seen as more worthy than anyone. Black or white, if you are not a citizen of the country, you are seen as below average.

I lived in Riyadh for a few years while working with their military. My wife was with me for the first year, but I sent her back home because she was so fucking miserable and I didn't want her to get assaulted. They are generally more respectful of western women who are escorted by Saudis since it indicates that there is some status there.

Anyway, here are a few points about living there...

1. Executions happen on Friday. If you accidentally walk up to the crowd and look foreign, they will clear a way and push you to the front of the group. I don't know why they do this. I asked one of my Saudi counterparts, and he said that it was to show how efficient their justice system is. I personally felt like it was more of an intimidation thing, but I can see both sides of the coin. I'm just glad I didn't hurl in front of all those Saudis.
2. My wife could not drive anywhere alone. Luckily, the Saudi's provided my wife with a male escort. He was a chauffeur and translator. Once my wife left, she sent me a bunch of videos of her ecstatically driving once again. It had been over a year.
3. Alcohol is strictly forbidden. I worked with a Saudi who was caught smuggling a couple bottles of alcohol in from Bahrain. He had to take leave (military vacation time) in order to get whipped. On the bright side, he had perfect posture when he got back because any bending of the back caused the scabs to start bleeding.
4. The Saudis definitely were not welcoming hosts. I mean, I had a chauffeur, a great place to live, and a fat paycheck, but they make it very clear that they are "above" you. It's hard to describe, but it's like a servant status if you are a westerner working there.
5. I almost forgot. Homosexuals 100% get killed there. It's no joke. It reminded me of V for Vendetta. Just being accused of being a homosexual is a death sentence.

In summary, 0/10 would not recommend a visit to Riyadh.

Finally a question I can contribute to! Hopefully I'm not too late.

Both of my parents are doctors and have moved to Saudi Arabia from another Arab country. I was born here and lived my whole life in the country so I've been under sharia law since I was born(I'm currently 17).

Starting off, everything closes during prayer time and opens up 20 or so minutes after. Shops, malls, you name it. There are no movie theaters in the country. A friend who had let his hair grow for a long time was forced to cut it by the religious police before(probably because he's "imitating women" or some similar bullshit reason), although I've heard they don't do that anymore. All women wear black trash bags on them so sometimes it's really hard to find you mom when she's identical to every moving black ghost in the area.

Pornographic sits are blocked and so are anti-islamic ones. Everything is segregated by gender. Queuing to order from a fast food restaurant in a mall? Seperated by gender. A standalone restaurant? Restaurant is seperated into two parts, for singles(read: males only) and for family(read: family and females). Also, no mixing of genders in the work place which limits the number and type of jobs women can get. Oh and schools are segregated by gender too.

Having partners(outside of marriage) is not allowed and so is displaying public acts of affection. Never had a crush on anyone because I've almost never interacted with a girl my age.

Honestly, the whole country is boring. There isn't much fun to be had and I'm naturally anti-social so all I do is just stay at home play steam games, watch YouTube or do whatever I'm basically on my PC 24/7 since it's the summer vacation. I'll also read a book or two every once in a while. There's an incredible lack of science books in bookstores but I was able to find "Physics of the impossible" by Michio Kaku which I'm currently reading. My parents? They don't mind any of the stuff imposed by sharia law. Most people here don't. They never felt what's it like to have freedoms that people in more socially liberal countries take for granted. Despite being raised as a muslim and living my whole life under sharia law, I've become and atheist for almost 2 years now. I'd personally like to thank reddit and the Internet for that.

I'm a Saudi Arabian citizen and have lived my whole life here, I can tell you about the phases and levels of Sharia law here in Riyadh, the true origin of terrorism. They teach you from a young age in mandatory subjects from the first grade that the infidels are there for the purpose of stripping you away from all of your "righteousness and angelic traits".

All infidels deserve to be killed, you hate every other religion our there and especially the jews **they took our beloved palastine away so they deserve to be killed in the most creative ugly way possible, you are all soldiers for Allah and the muslim people will basically "jihad" all over the world one day and gain it back.

The Salafi-Sunni-terrorist phase started around the 1970's, we arab people call it "Al Sahwah" as in the awakening when the religious police actually became a thing lol, thats when the Saud government started using islam in a way to further silence the people, basic politics there! But it all went down hill after the religious people started having too much influence on the people for the Saud government to handle so they decided to join it rather than to fight it since the religious cancer has spread too much for be cured. that's when the terrorist Islamic state started.

They only stripped mosques their right to talk politics a couple of years ago, before that every fucking lecture they gave was either about killing the jews or killing the jews, sometimes both.

You asked about life? It's horrible, but livable. Yeah risking your life over something as simple and as human as sex can be troubling at times but I stopped caring about it, guess that's my way of dealing with it but let's not make this too personal. The people here are fucking psychotic, they can actually diagnose themselves and be diagnosed by fucking doctors with "envy" and "witchcraft". Therapy doesn't exist because every fucking therapist here gives you "verses of Quran" as a way to treat your Biploar disorder, also schizophrenia and autism can be a demon that's possessing you. Just thought I'd share some of the fuckedupness this country is living.

I for myself plan to use the free education and get the fuck out of here, if its not for my little sisters I'd probably be either dead or ran the fuck outta here, almost all the people are dumb fucks believing in a fairy god and a fairy life. Almost everyone is hypocritically good, but in fact no one is. The country is slowly evolving, just a few days ago they reached the 1700's and one day they'll reach whatever phase we're in right now, just not fast enough for me to waste my life waiting for this shithole . Like I said it's livable just not a life worth living. Sorry for the rant but thought I'd share this I'd happily answer specific questions if you any wanted anything.

I don't comment or post on reddit, but I feel like I can add something to this. From a male's perspective.

I'm a Saudi, was born and raised there. I can remember me as a child, I was not allowed to listen to music or watch movies because they were deemed morally corrupting and forbidden by the religion. The line of thinking goes this way: anything that may has a potential to lead to sex is haram. So people on TV kissing, any kind of affection could have the potential to mess with me. Apart from that. Not many restrictions in childhood iirc and no stark differences in treatment between males and females. Once I hit puberty, things took a turn for the worst. I was not allowed to socialize with the other sex. Any females I used to play with as a child, I could no longer treat them the way as before. I couldn't talk to them or be alone with them. Otherwise it would be assumed that I was after something sexual. I was basically treated as a horny animal who is not to be trusted around girls. And girls, pick up on this too and learn to be afraid of the other sex. Needless to say you couldn't date or get to know the other sex. Schools, government offices, restaurants, mosques were all segregated. Shops and malls were policed and at some point, young males were outright banned from entering malls. If you're a saudi single male, you're constantly reminded of how undesirable you are. The country has nothing to offer for fun. No cinemas, of course no bars or clubs. Nothing but dining and shopping and some other few things. And in most of these places you're greeted with a sign telling you, you're not welcome. For families only. I spent my teenage years driving with friends on the streets, smoking shisha and spending time in one of my friends' house. I do realize that despite how shitty this was, women had it worse. At the very least I didn't need permission to do most of this stuff and if I had messed up, my family wouldn't have come down on me so hard. Nevertheless, it was still a shit life.

I went on to university away from my family. And suddenly I had full access to the internet, got to meet all kinds of different people and my shitty mindset and the way I used to view the world began to change. I still couldn't speak freely and discuss these new stimulating ideas that I've just come across. The way Saudi society is structured makes it really hard to deviate from the norm. Individualism is highly discouraged. As I'm sure you've heard about all this arranged marriage business and how the guy's family go picking his future wife. Of course he has a say. And can refuse but it's really hard to find a girl on your own and get to know her when you can barely talk and meet her. Anyways, since the future husband and wife have no clue what the other person is like and how good/bad they are. It falls to society (people around them) to determine that and give their input. The family of both parties would start contacting friends and acquaintances of the opposite side to get a feel of what they are like and if there's any dirt on them.

So if I decide to voice my concerns about religion, become an atheist or do something in my past which is deemed immoral by society and the people around me, I'm pretty much fucked. Very few would be willing to entrust me with their daughter and risk themselves and her getting into trouble later on when/if the authorities decide to come knocking. This has to do with their image as well and how they are perceived by society. If word gets out, their girls may never find suitable husbands and their boys may never marry. Of course it goes the other way. My sisters and brothers may have to bear my sins. So you keep you crazy thoughts to yourself. You questions nothing in public and stay the line. Otherwise people would fear associating with you and you'd be ostracized.

This is getting too long, so I must end it. Most people who say they have no problem with the system are people who are not affected by it. Mostly males. Mostly conservative. Or not, but deep down they have no problem living such a life and accept it. However if you happen to have different opinions and views, are unhappy and want to change something or simply just wanna be left alone to do what you wish as long as you are not causing anybody any harm. You are shit out of luck.

I have to say though that things are changing. Albeit slowly. For instance it's more acceptable today to talk and be around the other sex. Although it depends on which part of the country you are in. However much of the restrictive laws are still there. Making matters worse is the fact that this slow progress could be simply overturned whenever those governing deem so.

I no longer live there. And hope that I never ever have to go back there, other than to visit family.

There's also some apologism if you dig for it:

God, the "real Sharia Law hasn't been implemented" people are just as dangerous and disingenuous as the "real Communism hasn't been implemented" people.

Oh, lol, and some incel wandered into a thread about the oppression of women and started talking about how Western men are the REAL victims:

 

[DykesDykesChina]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZVUmpuq7yggYep. Anita made a video on "islamphobia". Prepare yourself to rage.

Sorry, Anita. "Islamophobia" doesn't "go back all the way to the crusades". The Romantic Era actually was quite islamophilic -- back then, the Arabian world was seen as a fairy tale place full of mysterious wisdom, in the spirit of 1001 Nights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West–östlicher_Divan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Hauff

"Getret'ner Quark
wird breit, nicht stark."

(Stepped-upon curd gets flattened and not stronger.)

-- from West-Östlicher Divan.

SJWs would do well to take some of Goethe's writings to heart.

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

My eyes are hurting from all the rolling they have to do at this "crusades were islamophobic" shit I constantly see.

The biggest reason the Vatican prosecuted the wars as long as they did is because they wanted to control territories that saw a lot of traffic from muslims on their hajj so the papal agencies could tax the hell out of them and grow rich. Racial/religious genocide was never a goal.

 

[Somsnosa]

the hate was reciprocal anyway.

 

[Cosmos]

Speaking of Ayaan, I came across a video from a few years ago that depicted her as a "Zionist puppet".
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ro6yQXxbIcAThe uploader is one of those Muslims who think Zionists are pulling them down.

Wow, she wasn't "owned" at all. There is a huge difference between Christians who commit violence and Christians who commit violence in the name of Christianity, just like there's a huge difference between Muslims who commit violence and Muslims who commit violence in the name of Islam. As far as I know, the post office and school shooters (especially the Columbine shooters) the host listed as examples of Christian violence did not murder people in the name of Christianity. In some cases (again, like with the Columbine shooters), the perpetrators weren't even Christian.

The same logic applies to Muslims, too. If a Muslim kills someone as part of a life insurance scam, that murder can't be classified as Islamic violence/terrorism; the crime was motivated by greed, not Islam. But if a Muslim blows himself up in a church while screaming "ALLAHU AKBAR," there's a good chance that the crime was motivated by radical Islam.

How hard is it to understand this?

 

[Assorted Nuts]

How hard is it to understand this?

It isn't, but I wouldn't be surprised if the guy is just dishonest and intentionally creating a false equivalency.

 

[AnOminous]

The same logic applies to Muslims, too. If a Muslim kills someone as part of a life insurance scam, that murder can't be classified as Islamic violence/terrorism; the crime was motivated by greed, not Islam. But if a Muslim blows himself up in a church while screaming "ALLAHU AKBAR," there's a good chance that the crime was motivated by radical Islam.

How hard is it to understand this?

"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into." Jonathan Swift, supposedly. I haven't checked it.

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into." Jonathan Swift, supposedly. I haven't checked it.

Don't check it. Facts and sources are a white male-centric way of validating who is right and who isn't. Check your privilege.

 

[NIA-DOA 2.0]

Another winner from The Young Turks:

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Another winner from The Young Turks:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-YUK0tpQUXU

How do The Young Turks get away with calling themselves after a movement which was responsible for multiple genocides while being politically correct?

Say it with me.

Spoiler

:autism:

As for the Crusades, the Crusaders did perpetrate several major massacres, most infamously in Jerusalem in 1099 where they exterminated the entire city once they captured it. But that was hundreds of years ago. Unless you're going to whine about Aztec sacrifices to Mexicans, there's no point in dragging up atrocities from centuries past which came from generally different political circumstances. Christian pilgrims have no problems getting to Jerusalem these days.

 

[Cosmos]

As for the Crusades, the Crusaders did perpetrate several major massacres, most infamously in Jerusalem in 1099 where they exterminated the entire city once they captured it. But that was hundreds of years ago. Unless you're going to whine about Aztec sacrifices to Mexicans, there's no point in dragging up atrocities from centuries past which came from generally different political circumstances. Christian pilgrims have no problems getting to Jerusalem these days.

They have to go that far back to find atrocities committed in the name of Christianity that are comparable to the atrocities committed in the name of Islam today.