George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

[LORD IMPERATOR]

wildfire, forgot that first time, that is a good point, however it's very limited, tyrion's entire battle plan at blackwater was basically "ok, i'm just going to fucking bankrupt the entire kingdom, but if i don't, we're fucked", and set all the priests to making it, getting their apprentices to, etc, and launching it via ballista, dummy ships etc, but to use it as a widespread anti zombie weapon wouldn't be feasible, if nothing else because demand is greater than the supply, not counting them wanting fuck tons of money/power for it, if they even chose to do so, and if quality is unaffected. if cersei follows the show then she 9/11's the stockpile they had, if not, and maybe you could reach the wall, and got extra to cover it in time, but there's a a level of intelligence with the others etc so it'd probably be a deterrence instead of "i win". maybe like slicing the horde into "waves". very fucking risky though because wildfire transfers to everything, like person to ship etc and hangs on, so with zombies, then unless you have nobody on the ground or reachable at all, that's more of a detriment. it'd be good just for sieges or The Wall to below if they die before getting over, or if the castle gate will not break with wildfire on the entrance dirt

At that point, that just makes the Undead a peripheral threat. Not a world-ending one. I can imagine a case of the world finding out about the undead, the lords and bankers pooling in the money needed to make enough wildfire to burn the Undead army, then the scenario becoming like the show where once the Others are dealt with, they go back to power politics as if the Undead were a mere side quest.

Compare that to the Undead in Warcraft where they poisoned the food supply to turn entire cities into zombies without firing a shot, and they're the first wave in a demon invasion that is way more powerful than them. That made their threat something that humans, elves, and orcs had to gang up on lest they all die.

dragonglass is just kind of weird though, there appears to not be like a nazgul 9 of Others, there seems to be a good deal of them, it's fragile or fragile enough, and the Others are smart enough or play at it where you're not really going to be able to have people without game abilities to be able to assassinate them, and far as i'm aware it doesn't really do anything like a "witch king" they're just kind of "watchers" except maybe the "king" one or whatever, so it's not really worth it to sacrifice someone. it's also limited supply and essentially the continent pop of zombies, the bigger the base horde, bigger that problem gets

Unless there's hordes of Ones out there numbering in the millions, I highly doubt it. You have more than enough dragonglass for the Others on Dragonstone, and that hardly is the only source of dragonglass.

Also, the Others aren't smart enough. They could've frozen land on either side of the wall or built a ship that can get them past the wall and its magical barrier; last I checked, the magic doesn't go into the sea. If the Others had the sense that GRRM's gods gave to the fucking Greyjoys, they'd have gotten past the wall centuries ago. You're putting too much stock in intelligence that they clearly lack.

part of the problem is how fucked everything is, like the "we flay people, including your grandpappy and grandmomma, my heirs a necrophile rapist, trust us" and "fuck you nigga twin towers nigga we gone get what's ours" in the north alone, the lannister ring of fuckup and "mvp: soldier/zombie most likely to make the entire world hate your faction and name beyond death" so basically, you have stannis the mannis (and his blood mage ho) about to kill the most loyal g to live, and the g, recently learning to read to be more of a g, read "there's a zombie horde, repeat zombie horde, this is not a joke" and stannis is basically living a isekai protag so "well fuck it of course there's a zombie horde, let me go get excalibur real quick, bae hold off on the pyre this nigga can read, side bae keep the throne warm for me" and then so they went. most other people don't care, can't care, or would aim to profit off the chaos.

That just goes to show Martin doesn't understand feudal politics. Everything is conditional; nobles have soldiers and tax money to pay to mercenaries because they promised leadership and protection to peasants, who agree to be their farmers and soldiers. The nobles have knights who promised to serve them in exchange for rank and a plot of land. It's all one big jenga tower of PR, and all these kinslaying and flaying morons would get ganged up on by nobles before the day is out. Especially when border security is telling them that something is wrong at the border.

Maybe their dismissal of magic would make sense, if it wasn't for the fact that magic dragons helped unite the continent in the first place, and half of Westeros AND most of the East believe the Undead threat is real, to the point of stories of Azor Ahai and the Others are known by both the North and the East.

Shit, forget the Undead, just the threat of the Targaryen Restoration would've gotten the Lannisters and Starks to shape up and work together, especially since Viserys Targaryen just sold his sister to the Dothraki to get 40,000 troops to retake his father's realm. Once they start hearing tales of Dany conquering Mereen with a powerful army of Unsullied with mercenaries and veteran knights like Barristan Selmy behind her, they'd drop everything to get ready for her. Especially since she has dragons growing larger and a powerful army at her back.

You wouldn't have Ned arresting Tyrion or Tywin attacking to retake him; Ned and Tywin would be working on a plan with Robert to stop Khal Drogo and Viserys. Or later on, you'd have Kevan and Stannis working on a plan to stop Daenerys and her army, especially since Stannis would be her first target, what with him sitting on Dragonstone of all places. Kevan and Stannis might even put Jon Snow in charge of the North to placate them and give Jon all the resources he needs to deal with the wildlings and the Undead, while the Baratheons and Lannisters prepare for the inevitable invasion of Dany and her army, especially since Euron seems to be aiding her, and you even have another Targ pretender attacking the Stormlands with a veteran army from the Golden Company, which would get both the Baratheons and Lannisters in a tizzy.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

They really upped the detail on the shield lmao

That's gonna be a bitch to touch up

 

[Birthday Cat]

Stannis might even put Jon Snow in charge of the North to placate them and give Jon all the resources he needs to deal with the wildlings and the Undead

lolno instead we get to read in 4k the beginning of "i dun want it"

 

[Tasty Tatty]

Dunk and Egg was good. Last episode was cute and the reveal at the end was amazing.

 

[madethistocomment]

Dunk and Egg was good. Last episode was cute and the reveal at the end was amazing.

The scene where Dunk gently teaches Egg to sew was adorable, as was all the rest of their bonding and banter. The two leads have genuinely insane chemistry.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

lolno instead we get to read in 4k the beginning of "i dun want it"

Yes, turn down the guy who's offering you the North on a silver plate. It's not like lordship over the North and unifying half of Westeros under your banner will help fight against the Undead or anything. It's not like a unified North under the Starks beat back the zombies the first time, or something.

 

[Memes Cat]

Dunk and Egg Adventures is apparently doing better review percentages than HOTD or even GOT did. Makes sense since every episode so far has been solid if they don't fuck up any episodes it'll be a very good season. It's crazy watching a series take place in a medieval setting and mostly seeing white people. Only black characters in this so far are a whore and the puppeteer girl. Wtf I don't think that's possible since the 90s to have so few blackwashed characters in your fantasy series? No wonder it's doing better than HOTD it hasn't fucked with the story so far. Showrunner wants to do more than three seasons even wants to surpass GOT's 8 seasons. Good luck on that cause sure GRRM says he has "more Dunk n Egg stories in his head" but cmon now fuck off GRRM is bullshitting.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Having a good, honorable person genuinely trying to do what's right at the enter of your show is a nice change of pace.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Having a good, honorable person genuinely trying to do what's right at the enter of your show is a nice change of pace.

Ned Stark did the same, only to lose his head. The only difference is that Dunk had Egg on his side at a time when the Targaryens were still ruling, and Baelor Breakspear died in his defense. Maybe if a Lannister or a Baratheon opted to fight a trial by combat to free Ned, he wouldn't have lost his head.

Speaking of which, goodbye in advance to Baelor Breakspear. He's gonna be dead come Friday night.

 

[foreman 89]

Ned Stark did the same, only to lose his head. The only difference is that Dunk had Egg on his side at a time when the Targaryens were still ruling, and Baelor Breakspear died in his defense. Maybe if a Lannister or a Baratheon opted to fight a trial by combat to free Ned, he wouldn't have lost his head.

Speaking of which, goodbye in advance to Baelor Breakspear. He's gonna be dead come Friday night.

Ned chose to confess in order to protect Sansa and Arya (who he thought was also a hostage). Him taking both of them to Kings Landing was incredibly stupid especially after the letter Lysa sent about the Lannister's assassinating Jon Arryn. Cersei wanted him to be sent to the wall but Joffrey (likely influenced by Littlefinger) ordered his execution to assert his authority as King. That said if he was sent to the Wall, he likely would have either died from his infected, festering leg wound or his ship there would have been ambushed by the Golden Company and Varys would get him to serve Aegon or could have been killed anyway by Jaqen H'Gar who may have been hired by Littlefinger.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Ned chose to confess in order to protect Sansa and Arya (who he thought was also a hostage). Him taking both of them to Kings Landing was incredibly stupid especially after the letter Lysa sent about the Lannister's assassinating Jon Arryn. Cersei wanted him to be sent to the wall but Joffrey (likely influenced by Littlefinger) ordered his execution to assert his authority as King. That said if he was sent to the Wall, he likely would have either died from his infected, festering leg wound or his ship there would have been ambushed by the Golden Company and Varys would get him to serve Aegon.

Basically, yes. Meanwhile, Duncan had Egg on his side and Baelor dying for his cause. So unlike Ned, who wound up on the chopping bloc, Duncan the Tall became Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, finding immense success where Ned found failure.

 

[Birthday Cat]

Ned chose to confess in order to protect Sansa and Arya (who he thought was also a hostage). Him taking both of them to Kings Landing was incredibly stupid especially after the letter Lysa sent about the Lannister's assassinating Jon Arryn. Cersei wanted him to be sent to the wall but Joffrey (likely influenced by Littlefinger) ordered his execution to assert his authority as King. That said if he was sent to the Wall, he likely would have either died from his infected, festering leg wound or his ship there would have been ambushed by the Golden Company and Varys would get him to serve Aegon or could have been killed anyway by Jaqen H'Gar who may have been hired by Littlefinger.

ned was less a agent that had right and wrong choices and more of just collateral to

Littlefinger Always Wins, down to the jon arryn event, and yet still before that catelyn and lysa's shit fucked him and basically his entire goal was becoming little bigdick for revenge/fucking over everyone who fucked him, and some form of having catelyn crawling back to him, ned could have been a lot more typically edgy or realistic but i'd be team big finger winning still

main thing ned did in particular was start the bastard "conspiracy" and triple down, sans and arry there or not, but catelyn's tyrion witch hunt leading to dark chad jaime playing a hack and slash with the entire stark party would have fucked him most anyway, because at that point he takes responsibility and says "uh yeah i sent your brother to the everest dungeon, uh no he's not coming back i don't think" or put his wife on a platter which'd still fuck himself over

ned in general wasn't even a "deconstruction" or a "idiot good guy" imo he was basically just fucked since at least the jon conspiracy, if he did absolutely nothing, bran would have still happened from the visit, and cate's shit would have likely happened with minor differences or ned's approval/accountability.

littlefinger's position and ability is so good though that basically he was gonna get those niggas regardless, and til the end they'd think he was 'ole uncle petyr that had a love boner and would do whatever cate wanted

 

[Hugbox Kommissar]

Crazy how the Targs have basically replaced the Starks as the protagonists of the GoT universe.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Crazy how the Targs have basically replaced the Starks as the protagonists of the GoT universe.

The Starks are boring AF. In the main novel series, all they've done since the Red Wedding was lose. Their main thing is that they're just honorable good guys; they're static. Nowhere do we hear of a Stark who might be crossing into evil territory or be forced to make hard choices that might be construed as evil for the greater good. Outside of the main novel series, they spent most of their time with their thumbs up their asses in the North, waiting for a zombie apocalypse that has yet to fully materialize in the novels. Even when they got overthrown and replaced by the Boltons, the zombies are no closer to attacking Westeros, and Stannis in the North is more concerned with the Boltons.

Meanwhile, the Targaryens are interesting. They're at the center of Westerosi political power. They stand atop houses like Velaryon, Hightower, Lannister, Tyrell, and Baratheon, each of which are powerful houses in their own right. The Targs are playing the game and playing it well. Even their "good" kings like Daeron II can show some spine. And instead of the cliche where they're fighting some rich Lannister asshole, they're often fighting each other, with Rhaenyra vs Aegon II, or Daemon Blackfyre vs. Bloodraven. You've got blood mages, madmen, kings that range from good to bad, kings with magic visions, kings with dragons, all of which makes things interesting.

They even look more interesting. Your typical Stark just looks like your normie ginger, brown, or black-haired Anglo or Scot, the kind of person you'd find in a British or German pub. Whereas in the books, the Targaryens are silver-haired with purple eyes. There's an otherworldly character even with their physical appearance. Some people literally got mad at Baelor Breakspear because he looked too normal when compared to his bastard brother Daemon Blackfyre, who looked like a real Targaryen.

And even in the live-action shows, they have a commanding presence. Someone like Aemond has the kind of fire and political smarts that Tywin had, combined with the kind of firepower that Dany had. Viserys I can be as kind as Ned Stark, but still have enough firm strength to make Jason Lannister bow and heel to his words, something Ned couldn't do with Jaime. Rhaenyra had a more storied history than either Arya or Sansa. Even Dany, when she went bananas, made Ramsay Bolton and Littlefinger look like kids in a park.

Their internal battles, such as the Dance of Dragons and the Blackfyre Rebellions, were way more interesting than the Stark war with Tywin or the Starks unifying the North, where in the latter, their only real opposition was House Bolton, whose only specialty was flaying. You have their war with the Others, but it's so shrouded in myth and prehistory that you can't really tell fact from lie.

The Targs conqueted multiple Westerosi kingdoms and even fought each other. Their wars are way cooler than your typical honorable Stark fighting a blonde Lannister Machiavellian and getting killed by a corrupt vassal that said Machiavellian paid off.

There's the Targaryen who temporarily conquered Dorne without dragons, a Targaryen who declared war on the Faith of the Seven, a Targaryen who became a servant of said faith, a Targaryen who patrolled the streets with armored goldcloaks while chopping off hands, nuts, and heads, a Targaryen who pimped out and had a ton of bastard kids, and even a Targaryen who practiced old gods magic to create an Orwellian surveillance state, among others.

Even their nutbags, like Mad King Aerys II or Aerion Brightflame, are more interesting. Aerys II went full Spanish Inquisition on his foes and set them on fire, and he was paranoid as fuck. Aerion thought he was a dragon in human form and died after drinking wildfire, thinking it would transform him into a dragon.

Meanwhile, your average Stark lord, regardless of the era, is your typical stoic, honorable lord whose worst trait would be at most, being hot-blooded, like Ned's brother Brandon, who died at the hands of the Mad King. They're either your typical stoic good guys, which just gets old, or your typical Leeroy Jenkins in a CoD lobby who gets his head shot off first when the match starts.

It's just more natural to have the Targaryens be the main characters of the ASOIAF world. They're more interesting, they've got politics and internal power struggles, not to mention more power and a more commanding appearance and presence. They're the kind of people who can sell action figures, more stories and novellas, or even video games, if they so choose to make them.

 

[Ishtar]

AKoTK seems to be pretty decent.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

AKoTK seems to be pretty decent.

I surmise it will stay as such for at least three seasons. Come season 4, anything can happen.

 

[TheHarbinger]

Crazy how the Targs have basically replaced the Starks as the protagonists of the GoT universe.

Is it? Jon is a Targ. So is Dany. Practically half the fandom believes that Tyrion is Aerys II's son (based on his appearance, his mother trying to abort him, Aerys taking liberties with Joanna, and his dreams of dragons, plus possible immunity to greyscale). Tyrion is also described as a dragon by Moqorro. Tyrion, Jon, and Dany all had mothers who died in childbirth. The dragon has three heads. There are a lot of similarities between Tyrion and both Dany and Jon.

GRRM's other stories are also centered on the Targaryens as well with HOTD and Dunk and Egg. He also said that he won't ever write prequel about Robert's Rebellion nor allow HBO to make one because it would need to contain too many spoilers for the main ASOIAF books. So that's probably the biggest potential Stark story that seems to have no chance of being written or produced for television.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

To be fair, Ned was going to King's Landing with the King himself. And he was given all the power to do as he liked, basically. He could have dismissed everyone from the council and get better people. With little more time, he could have made some positive change for good and actually get rid of the Lannisters' influence. They were never going to fight against the King had Robert survived. Unfortunately, Ned found a realm on the edge of bankruptcy, snakes and spies all over, and a Queen that was working against the King all the time. Also, Robert had become weak since the last Ned saw him.

If Robert hadn't die, he could have got the support of Dorne (as they don't like the Lannisters), the Reach, the Riverlands, the North (obviously), and of course, the Stormlands. The Ironborn were never going to support the Lannisters and the Vale was going to likely stay away from the conflict. Tywin was not going to win that war. But unfortunately, Robert Baratheon did die.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

To be fair, Ned was going to King's Landing with the King himself. And he was given all the power to do as he liked, basically. He could have dismissed everyone from the council and get better people. With little more time, he could have made some positive change for good and actually get rid of the Lannisters' influence. They were never going to fight against the King had Robert survived. Unfortunately, Ned found a realm on the edge of bankruptcy, snakes and spies all over, and a Queen that was working against the King all the time. Also, Robert had become weak since the last Ned saw him.

If Robert hadn't die, he could have got the support of Dorne (as they don't like the Lannisters), the Reach, the Riverlands, the North (obviously), and of course, the Stormlands. The Ironborn were never going to support the Lannisters and the Vale was going to likely stay away from the conflict. Tywin was not going to win that war. But unfortunately, Robert Baratheon did die.

Meanwhile, Egg didn't die rather quickly. He stayed as Duncan's squire and only died in Summerhall long after he became king. It wasn't like Robert where he was a Season/Book 1 character.

 

[TheHarbinger]

To be fair, Ned was going to King's Landing with the King himself.

But he's also going there with all of the King's enemies. Including knowing that the previous Hand was poisoned to death. He does almost nothing to protect himself. And stupidly brings half of his family and guards to King's Landing. Later his home castle is sacked for being undefended. And he also knows that there is a long history of people riding to King's Landing and being killed by the royal family or just disappearing. This happens with nearly every single person he rides to King's Landing with.

Before even reaching King's Landing he has Cersei wanting his daughter or their friends executed and Robert just wanders off without a care. Ned not sending his family all the way back was idiotic when knows that Tywin isn't above having highborn women raped to death and that Robert seems indifferent to everything. He tells Cersei he plans to have her executed before he even sends his own family to safety. Ned is one of the dumbest characters in the story. Because for GRRM honor equals stupidity.

He could have dismissed everyone from the council and get better people.

We never get an indicator that Ned was going to do anything other than fail because of honor. A GRRM staple.

If Robert hadn't die, he could have got the support of Dorne (as they don't like the Lannisters), the Reach, the Riverlands, the North (obviously), and of course, the Stormlands.

Robert couldn't even get the support of his own brothers. And they didn't support each other after he died. No one supports anyone in this series. It's always 'winner take all' with every House. Every single major House hates every other one. Lords all hate each other. People are always trying to kill the King. Targs and Blackfyres were fighting for centuries. They all backstab each other. They are all kinslayers or murderers. Guest right is violated more often than kept.

The point of the series is the realm unites against the Others, then immediately falls apart with Dany burning down King's Landing. Subvert expectations.