🌟 Internet Famous David Steel / LazerPig / Ricewynd / Malquistion - Pathological Liar, Reddit Historian, Femboy Thirster, and Vore Connoisseur

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Why bother building any ships if they’ll all just be instantly blown up? You should call up Xi and surrender.
I love the surrender monkey mentality Lazerpig and his fans put out. Navy actually does something for once, it's cool, but because Trump is attached, they are mad. They also completely ignore the FF(X) frigate program that's being built along side it based on the Legend class, a proven US design that just needs to be up gunned.
 
What the Navy needs are large numbers of small and mid-sized "workhorse" ships.
The Navy already produce and has planned to produce several small and mid sized ships.
What likely has the US Navy worried is that alongside its 9 planned carriers, the Chinese navy has commissioned several 50,000 ton displacement amphibious assault ships and drone carriers.
The US navy likely wants something at the same size
 
They also completely ignore the FF(X) frigate program that's being built along side it based on the Legend class, a proven US design that just needs to be up gunned.
The one thing that annoys me about the FF(X) is the lack of VLS cells, but that can be installed in a different flight within the class.
 
The one thing that annoys me about the FF(X) is the lack of VLS cells, but that can be installed in a different flight within the class.
The FF(X) is about getting a hull into the water now that is better at sailing than the LCS class. It works. And once production is underway, they can retrofit the first batch once they know the design works. It is a better idea than what the navy has been doing for the last few decades.
 
LazerPig and company's squealing aside, the Trump class actually sounds like a revisit of the arsenal ship concept from the 90s, which is basically what a new build battleship in the modern missile age would look like anyway.
 
Its nice that the Missile Mafia isn't getting their way on something. If you put VLS cells on something, then the rest of the design will be centered around them instead of the railguns and lasers.
Said missile mafia may get fucked regardless if the defensive lasers get any more powerful. No amount of ablative carbon aerogel is going to stop your precious $10mil interceptor from frying, and massing the missiles doesn't make the equation much favorable when a nuclear-powered laser-equipped ship has essentially infinite defensive ammunition to counter whatever you throw at it. Long-range ballistic cannons may actually be a good counter to laser defenses making missiles less effective, as the projectiles have a far smaller cross-section, rendering them difficult to intercept with lasers, and need not be as vulnerable to damage if they're dead weight. Railguns even moreso, except with hypersonic speeds.
 
Said missile mafia may get fucked regardless if the defensive lasers get any more powerful. No amount of ablative carbon aerogel is going to stop your precious $10mil interceptor from frying, and massing the missiles doesn't make the equation much favorable when a nuclear-powered laser-equipped ship has essentially infinite defensive ammunition to counter whatever you throw at it. Long-range ballistic cannons may actually be a good counter to laser defenses making missiles less effective, as the projectiles have a far smaller cross-section, rendering them difficult to intercept with lasers, and need not be as vulnerable to damage if they're dead weight. Railguns even moreso, except with hypersonic speeds.
tbh if u make the missile fast enough the lasers will have a really hard time destroying it, cuz they don't instantly disintegrate smth


so maneuvering hypersonics do have a better chance at defeating laser-based active protection systems, similarly, naval cannons/coilguns have both a small (hard to spot & target), and really FUCKIN fast (by the time the laser would have zapped it, it already hit you) projectile

ofc lasers are only one layer of defence, and against said missiles, who have a larger RCS and a juicy heat signature from the scramjet or solid rocket motor, you should use interceptor missiles to snipe em out of the air, but these don't work against railguns & cannons very well, cuz u only have a limited amount, and coilguns are still able to send stuff much faster than these missiles if u dump enough megawatts to the fuckin thing
 
he comes from a country where it took their military nearly 40 years AND the help of Heckler & Koch before they had a reasonably reliable service rifle, not to mention it took three iterations before it finally got there. It's still a heavy and poorly laid-out piece of shit though, even in the A3 iteration.
It will never cease to amuse me that in Shadow of Chernobyl it was the shittiest NATO caliber rifle and it lost durability faster than a UK politician can flee responsibility.
 
Its nice that the Missile Mafia isn't getting their way on something. If you put VLS cells on something, then the rest of the design will be centered around them instead of the railguns and lasers.
Firstly, we weren't talking about the Defiant and potential Trump Class BBGNs, we were talking about the successor to the Constellation, the FF(X). Talking about those 35,000 ton behemoths is a whole different ball park.
 
LazerPig and company's squealing aside, the Trump class actually sounds like a revisit of the arsenal ship concept from the 90s, which is basically what a new build battleship in the modern missile age would look like anyway.
That was what I first thought when I heard about it. The navy has been working on rail guns and lasers for a long time, and the Zumwalt was supposed to be the ship for it, but with its failure, they need to find a new platform for it. A ship that size would definitely have the power supply for them. Funny thing is that all the criticism of the ship is basically that it is a huge target that could easily be hit by a drone swarm. So is the Ford class. They act like these ships will just be sitting out in the ocean alone when they would definitely have their own battle group like carriers do, or even paired up with a carrier itself. I wouldn't be surprised if the Navy was trying to get it done for years, getting slapped down by previous administrations, before finally going to Trump and promising to name it after him if they could build it
 
That was what I first thought when I heard about it. The navy has been working on rail guns and lasers for a long time, and the Zumwalt was supposed to be the ship for it, but with its failure, they need to find a new platform for it. A ship that size would definitely have the power supply for them. Funny thing is that all the criticism of the ship is basically that it is a huge target that could easily be hit by a drone swarm. So is the Ford class. They act like these ships will just be sitting out in the ocean alone when they would definitely have their own battle group like carriers do, or even paired up with a carrier itself. I wouldn't be surprised if the Navy was trying to get it done for years, getting slapped down by previous administrations, before finally going to Trump and promising to name it after him if they could build it
if ur warship is alone, youv'e done smth wrong
 
A larger ship has more slack capacity to perform other missions. You can house marines/special forces, you can ferry supplies, given the size of these things you can probably squeeze in some extra helos if you were so dedicated.

Additonally, larger ships get fucked up on the open ocean less. Talk to any one who's actually served in the navy. If you are leaving green water, you want to be on a larger ship. When Iran and Russia tried to deploy to Venezuela in the late aughts/early teens, the Iranian frigates were stuck there for a couple months to get repaired to the point they could make the journey back.

But the main thing, as frothing retards ignore, is the Trump Battleship and Casino is looking to be mostly missiles and power generation. This will not just mean lasers (if they ever become reality) but better RADAR and other sensors.

These ships are barely more than figments of imaginations. I haven't even seen proposed armoring, which is going to go a long way to determine how useful these ships would be as "battleships" in that you can't glass-cannon a battleship, you build them with the expectation they are going to need to take a very serious punch but remain in the fight. Speculation about the effectiveness of laser defense and RAM are slapfighting about nothing right now as they don't yet exist.
Which makes debate difficult because whether these ships are good or bad effectively hinges on that exact question of defensive capabilities.

Again, given what happened with the Zumwalt I believe there is lots of room for legitimate questions about the wisdom of going all-in on large displacement ship class as a platform for systems that have been in development for decades and are still not yet viable for production.

additionally there are non-tactical factors to consider with making a large surface combatant.
US shipbuilding is in bad shape. We make Carriers and A-Bs, and made one Zumwalt. Even if its just a couple ships that serve as "Super Burkes", its good to demonstrate the ability to make large ships.

For people going on about "Just build another aircraft carrier", aircraft need pilots which means you can't just send them into harm's way. Surface-launch terrain-following cruisemissiles are something you can send into harms way without no fallout if hostile AAD catches them. Having a ship that that dip into hostile waters, launch, and return will be vital. We can't always rely on subs/stealth for that, a ship that can do so openly and brazenly will be needed against China.

Granted having never seen a ship building schedule or how fucked or not fucked port logistics are, or knowing about the exact design considerations for large warships, I would rather see them try to make another Zumwalt or two with improvements from the past decade of learning, and lay down either an assault ship or carrier to serve as a dedicated hull for the emerging defensive technologies.

so maneuvering hypersonics do have a better chance at defeating laser-based active protection systems, similarly, naval cannons/coilguns have both a small (hard to spot & target), and really FUCKIN fast (by the time the laser would have zapped it, it already hit you) projectile
A railgun round would be virtually indestructible to laser systems unless they were insanely powerful, like "Sci-fi offensive weapon powerful". Lasers hitting missiles works because missiles are thin-skinned, full of various explosives, and have precison sensors.
That is, your laser just needs to melt through the missile's outter coating and it will probably lose aerodynamics in a way the system can't compensate, or for fast missiles aerodynamic forces will probably tear it apart.
Ratchet that up a notch, and if you can breech the fueltank or cause the warhead to detonate via heat, that will kill the missile.
And even if you can't do either of these, if you can blind or otherwise render inoperable the sensors, chance are the missile won't find its target.

None of these things affect a railgun round, its pure mass and the kinetic energy in said mass. There is nothing you can do except erode that mass.

We are also still very far away from hypersonics that aren't just ballistic missiles. The guidance packages aren't there. You need a system that can survive the forces and process input fast enough, and sensors of enough quality to be able to provide useful data while under that sort of strain.

I notice that none of the 9 people who negrated my post were able to provide a reasoning for why this ship makes sense, beyond "big ships look cool", which shows that they view national defense as a meme topic without practical relevance.
I notice you are melting down about Trump beasue the 8 threads you have to do can't contain your buttrage, and its simply not worth the effort to engage you with real arguments because you are a retard to who jacks it to AI BDSM porn you share publicly. You just want to melt down about Trump and will take any position that allows you to do that. If this had been a Biden-era project Trump had canceled, you'd be melting down repeating NPC talking points about how it degrades the USN's capabilities against China.

You are also a Eurofag.
You will never be a real military power.
You have no force projection, no expeditionary capability. Any UN peacekeeping missions you deploy are fake and half-hearted.
 
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railgun round would be virtually indestructible to laser systems unless they were insanely powerful, like "Sci-fi offensive weapon powerful". Lasers hitting missiles works because missiles are thin-skinned, full of various explosives, and have precison sensors.
That is, your laser just needs to melt through the missile's outter coating and it will probably lose aerodynamics in a way the system can't compensate, or for fast missiles aerodynamic forces will probably tear it apart.
Ratchet that up a notch, and if you can breech the fueltank or cause the warhead to detonate via heat, that will kill the missile.
And even if you can't do either of these, if you can blind or otherwise render inoperable the sensors, chance are the missile won't find its target.

None of these things affect a railgun round, its pure mass and the kinetic energy in said mass. There is nothing you can do except erode that mass.

We are also still very far away from hypersonics that aren't just ballistic missiles. The guidance packages aren't there. You need a system that can survive the forces and process input fast enough.
I will note it is a 32kj railgun, which is the same power scale the Navy tested years ago. It isn't just vaporware, they already have a prototype.
 
I will note it is a 32kj railgun, which is the same power scale the Navy tested years ago. It isn't just vaporware, they already have a prototype.
I mean by that metric they have prototype lasers, but there's a still a wide gulf to cross from "works on the range" to "working under actual conditions".

Again, if they just want a test platform either up-genning a new Zumwalt or cramming an assault ship hull full of power facilities would likely be more cost effective until they get the thing ready for deployment.

And I guess the real issue with the Zumwalt was "the deployed weapon until the railguns are ready" was a gun they failed to actually secure a supply chain to provide ammo for. There was nothing really wrong with the AGS (other than cost per shot) except they just didn't have rounds for the thing.
And they aren't really prepping an effective fallback for these ones.
 
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