You sort of answered your own question, it's in the identity
Exactly. And what is “identity”? It’s whatever the person says they are at that particular moment, and that’s assuming they are telling the truth. Someone could easily say they identify as an octopus and there is zero way for you to 100% tell whether or not they are lying.
Being a woman and being gay are not subjective. You are either adult, human, and female, or you’re not. You either have sex with someone of the same sex, or you don’t. These are empirical realities that do not change.
Consider Terry Schiavo. She was a woman whose brain melted and then she was broadcast on national television. After Terry’s brain broke, she couldn’t identify as much of anything. If you had asked her if she identified as a heterosexual woman, she’d probably stare at the ceiling. Nevertheless, she is a woman, and there is plenty of data showing that disabled women and girls are especially vulnerable to sexual abuse by caregivers. If a tranny wound up in the same awful position as Terry, he wouldn’t be able to identify as a man or a woman. He’s still have his male body and so certain risks (like being impregnated while comatose) would never be an option.
Sex and homosexuality are real, and that’s why they can form the basis of law. Transgenderism, by your own admission, is reducible to an opinion, and no one can “confirm” an opinion. We can’t even reliably prove when someone else truly believes in an opinion they’re claiming. It’s all bullshit, and that’s why this “identity” nonsense should have zero bearing on public policy.
Potentially also in the thing about different brain anatomy mentioned a few years back but I don't know if that was bull.
The tranny brain sex argument is so unbelievably fucking stupid and trite. Let me break this down real fucking simple: The cells in your brain have chromosomes. The cells in your brain have a sex, and it’s the same sex as the cells in your junk. If neurons are the building blocks of the brain, and all neurons are either wholly male or female… how the fuck do you make a male brain out of female pieces? Or vice versa? Can you make a blue house out of Lego if all the pieces are red? No? Then shut the fuck up about the brain.
“Yeah but what about brain density or ratios of grey to white matter?” Yeah. Those do vary. You wanna know how much they vary? So much that scientists cannot reliably determine sex from brain scans. They could determine sex by looking at the chromosomes inside a neuron, but they cannot reliably predict sex because the variation is so immense and the differences so subtle. Think of it like height - you might be able to guess that a 4’1 ft adult is female and a 6’8 ft adult is male, but can you guess the sex of someone who is 5’6ft? Probably not.
So, if scientists can’t tell normal men apart from normal women using brain scans… how the fuck are they going to determine which males have “lady brains”? It’s actually difficult for me to articulate how fucking retarded this is. It’s a category error. You went into this assuming that trannies were telling the truth when they said they had ladybrains, and never considered whether women themselves even had ladybrains.
The human brain is an absurdly complicated thing
Appeal to complexity. Yeah, the brain can be complicated. Good thing sex is pretty straightforward in humans.
They thought he was just a cis guy. I have a completely different opinion on people like that vs the "choke on my girl dick TERFS" crowd.
Yes, women are generally less unhinged, violent, and prone to menacing their peers with penises. Congratulations on figuring that out.
And yes, I get what you’re saying in terms of the pooner you mentioned being a decent person and some troons being demons. Trans-identifying people are a heterogenous group. I don’t even disagree with that claim and trannies themselves have remarked upon “transtrenders”. Everyone knows that there are kids nowadays identifying as trans when they would have been anorexic twenty years ago. We know that each trans-identifying person is an individual capable of right and wrong. Yeah. We get it. So what?
No, really, so what? All you’re saying is that you found one person who believes in crazy shit who is less obnoxious than other people who believe in crazy shit. There are some Mormons who are absolute cunts and others who are lovely people. Does the latter mean Joseph Smith was correct? No? Okay, so why the fuck does some nice old butch lesbian LARPing as a man matter? Her being tolerable doesn’t make her identification as male any less retarded and unsubstantiated.
Saying a feminine guy or masculine woman is actually a transwoman or transman is the exact kind of gender stereotyping that I hate from more "sjw" people and it's hypocritical when kiwifarms does it.
Except that’s not what
@batteredpancakes was saying. They were asking you what the actual difference between a feminine gay man, an effete straight guy, and a tranny is. They pointed out that every dumb tranny “born this way” argument also applies to gender nonconforming people who do not transition. Their point was (I assume) not that these people should transition, but that there is zero empirical, tangible, real-world difference between them and troons.
And you acknowledged this - you said identity was the only determining factor, and I explained how feefees should not be the basis of a society. The fact remains that if you saw a gay dude, an effeminate man, and a tranny all unconscious at once, you would have no way of telling them apart. You could still tell their race, sex, and age, but you would have no way of determining how they identified unless they woke up.
"Wow I can't believe this troon thinks he's a woman because he likes pink, what a sexist"
3 seconds later
"How can this troon ever expect to be called a woman when he likes programming. A real woman would never-"
Dude, you’re missing the point. When a tranny says “liking pink makes me a woman”, and everyone laughs, it’s because his claim is retarded. When a tranny starts yapping about mathematics and programming, everyone laughs because
that contradicts the tranny’s own argument, not because “only men like computers”. Trannies themselves claim they are innately feminine and that they suffer from incongruous gender roles as a result. So when a tranny demonstrates how very
typical they are for their sex, their “born this way” argument falls apart.
The other thing you’re not considering is how these trannies clearly have male privilege and that manifests in their interests. When some guy who was encouraged to do STEM his whole life graduates with a PHD, troons out, and then starts whining about being a “woman in STEM”, it’s risible. Not because “haha woman can’t do science and he do science” - most of these troons are fucking shit at life sciences anyway and women make up half of biology majors. The joke is that this man is so inoculated by male privilege that he is oblivious to how an actual woman would feel. He has lived his life as a coddled little rich boy and now he’s claiming he’s a woman because he likes anime with lesbians. That’s the joke. He’s so typical of men and he has no fucking clue. His mommy and daddy probably gave him the “precious baby boy” treatment and may have discouraged or abused his sisters. We have seen trannies in this thread envious of their female sibling’s molestation. That’s the joke, and the implication is not that only female children are abused.
Finally, it matters because it’s a typology. AGP troons love male-dominated industries like the military and programming. In other words, it’s not HSTS effete gay men claiming to be women here in the West, it’s gigantic violent testosterone monsters who love machines. It’s funny for the same reason trannies keeping their dicks in massive numbers is - it demonstrates that they’re fucking liars. It’s funny because the guy claiming to be a woman is more typically masculine than the average guy. There are several body-building troons in this thread who were more jacked than most working men. That’s the joke. It’s not that only men go to the gym, it’s that the average man who doesn’t identify as a woman has a better understanding of women than the men who say they are women. There’s political surveys that literally demonstrate that. The typology also makes it clear why certain types of trannies appear in some locales (ex. Homophobic countries and ladyboys) and not others (ex. Countries when homosexuality is okay).
It's the same with terfs basing womanhood on experiences of sexism because then by your own retarded logic if you actually achieved some female ethnostate paradise the women would stop being women and women in the west would be less female than women in the middle east.
Jesus Christ, talk about a straw man. Yes, some feminists (think Beauvoir) have said that one “becomes” a woman through socialization and oppression. She wasn’t being literal. Her point was that, rather than being natural outcomes of their inherently feminine nature, women had to be continuously pushed back into place. The gender roles of womanhood needed to be replicated by the production of “women” out of female humans. She was not implying that girls magically grow vaginas at age 6 because they were forced into a dress.
You’re also not asking why oppression against women exists. Women have more expensive gametes and that means some cohorts of men will want to rape or harm them. Everyone knows who women are. With the exception of some men with CAIS who have blind pocket pseudovaginas, everyone since the dawn of time knew who the women were. When TERFs go on about sexism being definitive, they’re referring to the experience of having a material body. Even if sexism stopped by some magic means, the female body which provoked such responses will remain. Trannies have never experienced that, and so there is a tremendous swath of female experiences that will be forever lost to them. The differences may be more pronounced in sexist societies because those women have suffered and bled for inhabiting the bodies they do, but even in a truly equal world the tranny will never understand what it’s like to be pregnant or have a period. Even without sexism, living in a world where half the population can pop you in the skull and kill you affects how you behave. Trannies will always be male and that will always confer upon them advantages (and disadvantages) that separate them from actual females.
Trannies have tried to counter this legitimate TERF claim that they have male privileged by insisting that they have a “joyous” vision of womanhood and that TERFs just define womanhood as pain. Except that’s not what most TERFs say, is it? Most of them say that women are adult human females, but trannies will sidestep that because it cannot be disproven. Instead, they’ll complain about the sexism that TERFs say is concomitant with being female, straw-man their perspective, and then say dumb emotional retard babble about how they define womanhood through “joy”. That is, their conception of womanhood is a fun little fantasy daydream infinitely more reductive than any shrieking TERF’s visions of patriarchy.
TLDR: I don’t think you’re bad or stupid, but you’ve ingested a truly shocking amount of dumb tranny propaganda and have not done your research. The end result is you making me MATI.
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