Debate @The Projects about various political stuff

[The Projects]

The issue that I see now is that the Union has woken up and has taken control of the Federal Government.

I disagree completely, to my eye, a cult of personality has mobilized the dispossessed in our country who feel they haven't got much more to lose, and are tired of being represented by ineffective government, and have used the deep pockets of industry and capital to fund themselves.

What I am sort of gleaning from your post, and feel free to correct me if I have misinterpreted your meaning is that you feel as though the old spirit of America has taken back power from the post-war consensus crowd and are re-instating the old status quo. I cannot help but feel that this is a bit of wonky reasoning, as we have never really been in a state of affairs this bad, the only real comparison has been the Depression and the Civil War.
The Depression was ultimately quelled rather quickly all things considered, and the Civil War was completely justified on the Union side.

Why do I say now is arguably worse than either of those times? Short term, they were both much worse, long term, the place we're in is disastrous. Completely broken congressional system, concentration of power into few hands, functionally unlimited capital donation in politics, a hereditary class of rich people separate from commoners, disproportional representation in voting, an inability to create new political movements that aren't arms of the established political class, and to top it all off, a highly polarized, emotional political landscape where people view the opposition as the devil, and their leader as their country's savior, if not a literal messiah.

This is to say nothing about mass media, the mental health crisis, the extremely high number of easily accessed guns, the breakdown of real life social gathering spots and communities, and a million other problems that I simply do not have time to get into.

I do not see this as the old guard taking back power, this is something different and very bad skinwalking as our old country.

 

[Justsomecicada]

I do not see this as the old guard taking back power, this is something different and very bad skinwalking as our old country.

what exactly, your post is very vague. What cult of personality etc

Interesting stuff though. People cannot help but mythologize the civil war and compare shit to it. People need to wake the fuck up tho and realize 1860s might as well been a different planet

 

[Sensitive Young Man]

what exactly, your post is very vague. What cult of personality etc

Obviously Drumpfler. The executive actually doing something is… le bad!

Out of curiosity, why do you think the congressional system is broken and that voting has disproportional representation?

I don’t know about the latter, but Congress is hilariously corrupt and completely ineffective. There’s a reason they have something like a 15% approval rating.

 

[The Projects]

what exactly, your post is very vague. What cult of personality etc

Sorry, didn't think it had to be said really, Trump. He's a charismatic figure with a giant number of supporters, many of whom downright worship him, and take his every word unquestioningly. Some of his supporters in no exaggeration, ascribe divine meaning to his presidency and movement.
10 years ago, the average American hated all politicians, now a large chunk of them downright worship one.

This will probably earn me no friends, but I am not a Trump supporter by any stretch of the imagination, and I do not see him, his administration, or his tenures as president as productive, competent, or successful. Furthermore, he constantly plays on his supporter's fears of a changing world and a changing country (This is not to say I am a progressive, I am not), fears of crime, fears of conspiracy, and often blends in the faith in Christ many of his supporters possess to lend credence to his movement. (This is not to demean Christianity either, but the misuse of religion by demagogues.)

We live in a time and place where people are depressed, angry, fed up, tired, and alone, and Trump has rolled in to fill this void in satisfaction for millions of Americans, but I do not think that he is a positive influence on our country or our people.

 

[Sensitive Young Man]

Sorry, didn't think it had to be said really, Trump. He's a charismatic figure with a giant number of supporters, many of whom downright worship him, and take his every word unquestioningly. Some of his supporters in no exaggeration, ascribe divine meaning to his presidency and movement.
10 years ago, the average American hated all politicians, now a large chunk of them downright worship one.

This will probably earn me no friends, but I am not a Trump supporter by any stretch of the imagination, and I do not see him, his administration, or his tenures as president as productive, competent, or successful. Furthermore, he constantly plays on his supporter's fears of a changing world and a changing country (This is not to say I am a progressive, I am not), fears of crime, fears of conspiracy, and often blends in the faith in Christ many of his supporters possess to lend credence to his movement. (This is not to demean Christianity either, but the misuse of religion by demagogues.)

We live in a time and place where people are depressed, angry, fed up, tired, and alone, and Trump has rolled in to fill this void in satisfaction for millions of Americans, but I do not think that he is a positive influence on our country or our people.

I would have agreed with you up until Butler. That was a miracle and you can’t convince me otherwise.

Nigga just reverse the paper when putting it in the envelope.

The fat DMV negress “certifying” your ballot will just throw it out anyways.

 

[Justsomecicada]

Furthermore, he constantly plays on his supporter's fears of a changing world and a changing country (This is not to say I am a progressive, I am not), fears of crime, fears of conspiracy,

You claim to not be a prog but I’ve never heard anyone but a prog use the language your using same with the disproportionate representation thing. I appreciate you explaining tho and I agree with you on a lot I just don’t think your being candid here tbqh. Framing opposition as oh you’re just scared of change is like prog 101. Framing the coordinated ethnic replacement of European-Americans as just a changing country is also prog shit

 

[The Projects]

Out of curiosity, why do you think the congressional system is broken and that voting has disproportional representation?

For congress, one word, filibuster. Congress can't get anything done even when a party has a majority in both houses. Why? Because for all intents and purposes, a majority of 60 senators is required to pass anything in the Senate. It requires a 3/5ths majority to end discussion and proceed with legislation, so if the other side has at least 41 senators all in agreement, they can just keep talking forever, or instead of doing that, they can just threaten to do a filibuster, and the other side will usually back down because it's a waste of time. This is called a silent filibuster.
This is part of why executive orders and Supreme Court decisions have become some of the driving forces in changing the status quo. Why pass new legislation when you can just have the Supreme Court throw out the old rulings to get yourself a favorable decision, or just have the president decree it? (And hope that the courts don't throw it out)

The obvious answer to the disproportional representation question is the Electoral College, but given that was deliberately made to be that way by our founders, the system is actually working as intended in that respect, and I am actually not totally against it myself. Instead, my answer is Gerrymandering. You can use Gerrymandering to determine the outcomes of elections by drawing weird districts that have a slim majority of your supporters in them, and if you can put as many of the other party's supporters into as few districts as possible, you can limit the amount of seats the party will gain.

And given that my last few posts have been mostly about Trump, let me make it clear, these are systemic issues that both parties are abusing constantly. Before the 70s, filibusters were extremely rare last-resort measures to defeat legislation, nowadays over a hundred of them happen every year. As far as Gerrymandering goes, I'm not very well-versed on the history of it, but it's been going on for a very long time, it's just an issue compounding on all the other issues going on today.

 

[The Projects]

Who would you prefer be in charge of the country instead?

It's a very difficult question really. My viewpoints are not represented by basically any mainline political party or movement. Buddy of mine introduced me to the American Solidarity Party, I agree with most of their positions, so I guess ideally one of them, IF that ever gets off the ground lmao. I've contemplated going out to volunteer for them.

 

[JayseeDenton]

I do not see this as the old guard taking back power,

I do understand your concern considering the main thing that led me to becoming redpilled to begin with was the degree to which the left was arbitrarily obsessed with destroying the old guard.

That said, the side that is currently winning is the one that does not tell me I deserve to die for being white. New, old, poor, rich, elite, dumb, or smart, that is the side I will cheer for.

 

[Justsomecicada]

It's a very difficult question really. My viewpoints are not represented by basically any mainline political party or movement. Buddy of mine introduced me to the American Solidarity Party, I agree with most of their positions, so I guess ideally one of them, IF that ever gets off the ground lmao. I've contemplated going out to volunteer for them.

>look up the party
>its just an American CDU/CSU

Lmao hard pass, Christian democracy (the literal political ideology not the general concept) has lead to some horrible shit in Europe

In almost every case it’s been turned into something not very Christian or very democratic

 

[The Projects]

That said, the side that is currently winning is the one that does not tell me I deserve to die for being white. New, old, poor, rich, elite, dumb, or smart, that is the side I will cheer for.

Well, this is my dilemma. I find the current Rightist movements to be fundamentally toxic to our country, but the Leftists have their heads so far up their ass that they will twist themselves in knots trying to please a million different minority groups instead of just focusing on a broad sweeping labor reforms that would please basically everyone. And yes, most of them have an open disdain for common people, and not that long ago, they were half-joking about White people going extinct, some of them still do. And centrists? Please, they don't even exist anymore.

 

[The Projects]

>look up the party
>its just an American CDU/CSU

Lmao hard pass, Christian democracy (the literal political ideology not the general concept) has lead to some horrible shit in Europe

Well, I am under the impression we probably have different beliefs about the world, so it doesn't shock me that you might not support it, but it appeals to me personally.

 

[Sensitive Young Man]

Well, this is my dilemma. I find the current Rightist movements to be fundamentally toxic to our country, but the Leftists have their heads so far up their ass that they will twist themselves in knots trying to please a million different minority groups instead of just focusing on a broad sweeping labor reforms that would please basically everyone. And yes, most of them have an open disdain for common people, and not that long ago, they were half-joking about White people going extinct, some of them still do. And centrists? Please, they don't even exist anymore.

Let me ask you a question. What are your views on mass migration?

 

[The Projects]

Elaborate on why they are toxic

I've already basically said everything that sticks out to me right away, but you can throw on erosion of state institutions on top. Is there anything in particular you'd like to know?

 

[Justsomecicada]

Well, I am under the impression we probably have different beliefs about the world, so it doesn't shock me that you might not support it, but it appeals to me personally.

I think if you actually studied the history of such movements and how they ended up in Europe and you value Christianity or democracy you would realize it’s folly.

Most of those parties are run by agnostic at best technocrats with disdain for the common person.

If it worked I think it would be the best system in the world. In particular I am sympathetic to distributionist economics myself.

 

[Fuck Bankers]

I've already basically said everything that sticks out to me right away, but you can throw on erosion of state institutions on top. Is there anything in particular you'd like to know?

Yes, particular events with links would be appreciated.

 

[The Projects]

Let me ask you a question. What are your views on mass migration?

I am against mass migration, be it documented or illegal. In particular, visa workers and illegal immigrants contribute to wage depreciation amongst native born citizens. This along with usury, erosion of family and societal values, and domestic/civil violence would actually be my primary concern if I did not find the Trump administration to be openly anti-democratic. That, and they're not really doing anything about any of these problems. Beginning a pseudo-military operation to round up migrants isn't going to fix birthright citizenship or migrants overstaying their visas or businesses employing illegals, they're going to sweep up a few hundred thousand, and call it a day.

 

[Fuck Bankers]

Trump administration to be openly anti-democratic.

What particular actions do you find outside of norms? Ice has existed for decades before trump. Obama used ice.

 

[Justsomecicada]

I am against mass migration, be it documented or illegal. In particular, visa workers and illegal immigrants contribute to wage depreciation amongst native born citizens. This along with usury, erosion of family and societal values, and domestic/civil violence would actually be my primary concern if I did not find the Trump administration to be openly anti-democratic. That, and they're not really doing anything about any of these problems. Beginning a pseudo-military operation to round up migrants isn't going to fix birthright citizenship or migrants overstaying their visas or businesses employing illegals, they're going to sweep up a few hundred thousand, and call it a day.

Then what fear of change is trump exploiting here that you mentioned

 

[The Projects]

Yes, particular events with links would be appreciated.

I don't keep a documented ledger of instances of politicians doing things I don't like to prove points to people online. I'm not a redditor.
But I can give some examples of things I don't like, mass firing of government workers to weed out some vague notion of "wokeness", having Elon Musk involved in government affairs to any capacity, the ICE Raids are whatever on their own, but they're conducting it rather inhumanely and incompetently, and I'm not fond of a paramilitary force rolling around on the streets, even if I'm not at risk. I'm not fond of his constant inflammatory statements towards allies, threats to annex Canada and Greenland, threats to pull out of NATO. He constantly speaks as if he can solve every world crisis at the drop of a hat, and then fails profoundly. I don't like the administration's buddying up with tech companies, I don't like their threats to arrest or silence detractors and political opposition. And as stated before, I don't like the weird divine mission they often purport to have. The tariffs were stupid and have been poorly implemented. And the piece de resistance, I don't really support a guy who openly states to want to be a dictator! Say it was a joke all you like, even if it was, I don't think it's a good way to conduct yourself as a president!

Will get a few things out of the way though, a lot of these things are not new, Obama worked closely with tech companies, Bush appealed heavily to Evangelicals and did the big tough guy act, Eisenhower did Operation Wetback, tariffs have been implemented many times throughout American history, it's the combination of all these things plus all these new things that really leave a sour taste in my mouth, and a pretty firm distrust of the administration.
Though my biggest concern isn't that they're about to establish le ebil facist regime, it's that they're going to blindly stumble us into a political crisis, and we're going to flounder for a decade while the Chinese eat our lunch.