The Kiwifarms Unofficial Sci-Fi/Fantasy Book Club

[Greedy Fly]

I don't think that would be worth the cost of shipping it back though.

Keep it, someday you'll lend it to someone then you'll never see it again.

 

[Old King Koaleamos]

Keep it, someday you'll lend it to someone then you'll never see it again.

true, it'd be a worthy sacrifice.

 

[Boy_Blunder]

I finished Spook Country, which is getting deep into the Gibson books nobody has read. I think an important disclaimer to make is that it's not really science fiction, in the same way that The Hunt For Red October isn't, even though technology that doesn't exist is central to both.
I had a few problems with it, and the first was only that the edition I read was a big hardback with perfectly smooth paper, and the type was too small and the gaps between the lines was too big. Gibson writes pretty sparsely in this one, mostly just dropping brand names and telling you what things are made of rather than doing any real description so it felt pretty cold to read. Also, Gibson reuses a lot of his characters throughout his books. Hollis Henry's plot line with Bigend feels like a retread of Marly and Josef Virek from Count Zero, for instance.
I really liked it though, although maybe I'm just a mindless Gibson fanboy because it was Neuromancer that got me into reading when I was in high school. The plots all came together satisfyingly were all interesting on their own when they eventually got started. The three-into-one thing takes a lot away from the first third. I also think that there should only have been Hollis and Milgrim's storylines. Milgrim and Brown are tracing Tito the whole time, he should have been a ghost, and we meet him and have his plot explained at the end of Hollis' anyway. At the most he should have had an epilogue. Including him just seemed like an excuse to get Gibson's autistic special interest in voodoo gods and loa inserted somehow.

 

[Greedy Fly]

I finished Spook Country, which is getting deep into the Gibson books nobody has read.

I might have read it (or at least I'm sure I read Pattern Recognition), but to be honest all his non-Sprawl stuff blends together in my mind. The obsession with brands goes right over my head, and the tech level isn't interesting enough to really catch my imagination.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

The new Dresden Files book Twelve Months comes out in January. Here's a contest to win copies of all 18 books:

https://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2025/dresden-sweepstakes

https://sites.prh.com/dresdenfilessweepstakes

 

[Joshuan Moon]

Ended up starting late and I'd been avoiding the thread to avoid spoilers. Seeing how things went in the discussions I don't think it's too necessary to keep away in the future as long as I don't put things off so long. Just would appreciate better forewarning about the contents of the spoilers.

Spoiler: Lotsa Words

Even though I wasn't able to participate in the conversations, I'm glad I kept it all self contained. I even didn't read the introduction (and reading it after the fact, it would have needlessly colored my view going in). I think this made for a good start to this club effort. I'm fighting to break myself free from smartphone induced ADD so the short and frequent chapter breaks made it easy to take things in bursts. As far as the narrative went I thought it stuck a good balance. It's been covered but I liked that things weren't overly explained, enough detail was given for the reader to gain the impression and fill in the blanks and that the author didn't suffer from crippling thesaurus addiction. I found that made for an easy flow in general. I could see a fair deal of that begin due to the fact that the cyberpunk esthetic has been well established at this point. Maybe someone reading this when new might have had to put more effort into understanding things that have no foundation to rely on.

I can't help but draw the connections to cyberpunk things I know. I remember someone telling me once that Neuromacncer was what inspired System Shock. The connections if any there are thin. If it's true then that's much more like a genuine spark of inspiration, but Cyberpunk (the vidyeagame), that's a case of "Sure you can copy my homework, just change a few things." The few things being what, more Mexicans and the future tech Africans were from a different tropical island? For a few chapters I was afraid there'd end up being some kind of mental entanglement with Case and the Flatline construct ROM.

As far as positives go there isn't much specific I can point to about it being profound or what not and that's probably why my feelings are just a general "it was good and I like it." It didn't try to moralize or huff it's own farts. It kept me engaged and entertained, intrigued to see what's on the next page without having to force myself through. what more can I really ask for? One thing I can say that stands out is how in the end nothing really changed. None of our characters become famous or rich or big heroes who saved the whole world. They did their job and returned back to their boring shitty lives and nobody knows or cares that they did anything at all. That's probably the realest part right there. Life just goes on and "nothing ever happens" even when it does.

For some criticisms, there were some scenes that were a challenge to decipher.

The scene when Linda dies and Case is attacked (I mentioned it in a previous post, and was the first time I noticed it), Case seeing bits and pieces of Molly's experiences when they go steal Flatline (and being barely able to stand it because of the transmitted pain), Riviera's introduction with the fake out death and the illusory monster, etc.

These in particular I had to re-read to understand what happened. As to Rivera's role I didn't find it particularly fitting for the job. Is it really so simple as he's a degenerate and so is 3Jane so that gives them their in? I would have expected and perhaps preferred the plot to make more direct use of his abilities to deceive their way in. Maybe I just missed something there.

Another part that bothered me was that the story would pose a question or leave a bit of something unanswered and then immediately answer the question without ambiguity in the following chapter. Some time to chew on it and maybe make a wrong assumption or two would have been nice. An example that comes to mind is the Armitage/Corto connection. The characters openly speculate that Wintermute did that. And then two chapters later Wintermute says 'Yes I did that.' Pretty unsubtle. At least the overarching question of Wintermute's motivations and what would happen if it get what it wants isn't quite so obvious until the end... probably because even Wintermute didn't know.

As a side note I couldn't get through the afterword by some dude named Jack Womack. Kinda hard to read when the writer is too busy sucking cock and being a self-important faggot. All these modern sci-fi queers are like this, huh. I can see why Pat was able to child his way into this scene. Too bad for him he's too White and not enough "into things" for any of those freaks to care about him.

Spoiler: Some one off responses

I just think slang that requires you do do a bad Japanese accent is too funny to live.

I am incredibly ashamed that it took me until reading this post to fully grasp that this was the intended effect for that word.

Did something happen between the present and the cyberpunk future that forces everyone to say your name in every sentence when talking to you, Case?

In the cyberpunk future "How to Win Friends & Influence People" is required reading in school.

he also wrote it on a manual typewriter and specifically a 1927 Hermes typewriter at the time

Francis E Gibson

 

[Old King Koaleamos]

I can't help but draw the connections to cyberpunk things I know. I remember someone telling me once that Neuromacncer was what inspired System Shock. The connections if any there are thin. If it's true then that's much more like a genuine spark of inspiration, but Cyberpunk (the vidyeagame), that's a case of "Sure you can copy my homework, just change a few things." The few things being what, more Mexicans and the future tech Africans were from a different tropical island? For a few chapters I was afraid there'd end up being some kind of mental entanglement with Case and the Flatline construct ROM.

I do think Cyberpunk as a concept has been more fleshed out and stabilized in terms of cliches now. Neuromancer's the first "true" cyberpunk book, but I do know people point to plenty of older SF work as being "proto-cyberpunk". Off the top of my head, it's

• Philip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep", which is often described as being sorta proto-cyberpunk. I think it kinda counts, but it's not quite there.
• Alfred Bester's "The Demolished Man" and "The Stars, My Destination" are also sometimes cited as being proto-cyberpunk-ish. They're a pair of beloved '50s SF novels. I've read the latter, which does feature corporations wielding tons of power and an oppressive futuristic world.
• I've also heard Fritz Leiber's "You're All Alone" as a proto-cyberpunk novel too, but I haven't read that one.

I think Cyberpunk, as we know it, is a mix of dystopian and noir fiction done just right. The use of a digital reality seems to be a thing, but I don't know if that's a requirement. Same with transhumanist ideas.

As a side note I couldn't get through the afterword by some dude named Jack Womack. Kinda hard to read when the writer is too busy sucking cock and being a self-important faggot. All these modern sci-fi queers are like this, huh. I can see why Pat was able to child his way into this scene. Too bad for him he's too White and not enough "into things" for any of those freaks to care about him.

From what I understand, Womack's a cyberpunk writer of minor note. Seems he's a buddy of Gibsons. I looked him up on wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Womack

Seems he didn't have a ton of work. Wonder what his day job is. I didn't care much for the afterword, but it wasn't offensively bad. It at least highlighted the influence of Neuromancer.

 

[Joshuan Moon]

I didn't care much for the afterword, but it wasn't offensively bad. It at least highlighted the influence of Neuromancer.

Probably just the sudden change in the writing style put me on edge. I didn't find the substance of what he had to say was disagreeable or anything. He was hitting on some ok points, just the way it was written was off putting.

 

[Sweeter and Savoury]

I'm still convinced that Herbert wanted to end everything with God Emperor and the last 2 books were just something his publisher wanted so he cranked out 2 nonsense novels (get fucked Chapter House Dune) just because they offered him a dump-truck full of money.

God Emperor ends the series and it's thesis. Leto win, he does what he set out to do even if it took 7,000 years to do. Mankind is finally free, safe and expanding through out the universe never to risk a end at the hands of any one enemy.

Then comes fucking Heretics of Dune which adds nothing, makes no sense and is just "more stuff happening in the Dune Universe" and then the final fuck you with Chapterhouse Dune that just up ends everything and brings everyone back from the dead for nothing more then shits and giggles.

I am convinced that Herbert made the last 2 books to troll his fans.

 

[Old King Koaleamos]

Probably just the sudden change in the writing style put me on edge. I didn't find the substance of what he had to say was disagreeable or anything. He was hitting on some ok points, just the way it was written was off putting.

I wish he'd have kept the reminiscing about his friendship in the front, and then went on the importance of Neuromancer as the breakout book for the Cyberpunk genre & idea in a structured manner.

It's written as if he rushed it and crammed the afterword with all the beats he wanted to get out.

 

[There She Glows]

The new Dresden Files book Twelve Months comes out in January. Here's a contest to win copies of all 18 books:

https://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2025/dresden-sweepstakes

https://sites.prh.com/dresdenfilessweepstakes

I've been trying to do a reread/catch up of the series in preparation for the new book and I have to be honest I put Battle Ground down a month ago and haven't been able to pick it back up again. I'm going to finish it by the end of the year but the seventeenth book is a real slog.

 

[Joshuan Moon]

I figure here's about as good a place as any to to suggest it: I found the Point-n-click game Mission Critical to be a real fascinating sci-fi game. Give it a try some time if you like the "space wars" kinds of plots. Kinda hard to describe some of the standout sci-fi elements without spoiling it though. High level I guess is its basically USA vs Everyone Else (IN SPACE!) and everyone else (the UN) is afraid of tech going too far (fear of AIs being the ruin of humanity) but you can't win against everyone else without superior tech so the Alliance (USA) pursues it. The solution to the power gap lies on the planet Persephone but before your ship can complete its mission a UN ship defeats it in combat. You are a sole survivor, chosen to be left behind to complete the mission after your crew 9/11s the UN ship with a false surrender. Recover the ship from it's battle damage and land on Persephone to learn her secrets before UN reinforcements arrive to seal the defeat of the Alliance.

It's on gog for less than a buck fifty at the moment if you feel like getting it legit. Worth it in my book. The old 90's FMV pre-rendered adventure games are a favorite of mine so maybe I'm just biased but I liked it enough that I wanted more. I ended up reading the tie in novel. The book isn't anything groundbreaking, I'd say typical for that kind of stuff (haven't really read any game/movie tie-in books like that before) but enough to scratch that itch for more. Games don't much have tie-in novels anymore do they? One day I'd like to read the doom novels out of curiosity but it seems like they're not super easy to find.

As for next month I am rooting for The October Country. It looks like a real good spooky month book and I already said here how I'm down with the short stories. Think I'll be picking it up even if it isn't the one. But if whatever wins doesn't get me nice and spooked I'm going to be very dissapointed in all of you.

 

[Old King Koaleamos]

But if whatever wins doesn't get me nice and spooked I'm going to be very dissapointed in all of you.

Speaking of spooks, Peter Watts Blindsight is free to read on his website.

 

[LordOfZhbagva]

What happens if we get a tie?

 

[Old King Koaleamos]

What happens if we get a tie?

Read both.

 

[Safir]

As for next month I am rooting for The October Country. It looks like a real good spooky month book and I already said here how I'm down with the short stories. Think I'll be picking it up even if it isn't the one.

I haven't read that book but I read a few stories from there in various "best of Ray Bradbury" collections. There's one about body dysphoria that made me scared of Bradbury, like, how do you come up with shit like that?

 

[Old King Koaleamos]

I haven't read that book but I read a few stories from there in various "best of Ray Bradbury" collections. There's one about body dysphoria that made me scared of Bradbury, like, how do you come up with shit like that?

I mean, Bradbury was excellently skilled at horror. One of the pulps he started in was Weird Tales. I think he popped up right around the time Lovecraft died. (There's a timeline where Lovecraft lives longer and tries to mentor Bradbury, isn't there?).

Anyways, October Country or Something Wicked would be nice. I'd say he's a fine default pick, but he's also so prolific and mainstream.

 

[Greedy Fly]

I'm also rooting for October Country because, while Scanner Darkly is excellent, I've already read it and I don't want another month of waiting for everyone else to finish.
I quite liked Martian Chronicles, Dandelion Wine, R is for Rocket, The Illustrated Man and Farewell Summer, I dunno why I haven't sought out more Bradbury before now.

 

[Old King Koaleamos]

I'm also rooting for October Country because, while Scanner Darkly is excellent, I've already read it and I don't want another month of waiting for everyone else to finish.
I quite liked Martian Chronicles, Dandelion Wine, R is for Rocket, The Illustrated Man and Farewell Summer, I dunno why I haven't sought out more Bradbury before now.

I won't complain about either Dick or Bradbury. Picked up the Library of America sets last winter. (and I've been slowly finding Bradbury stuff that isn't in that 2 volume set).

Another famous-ish one that probably goes well with October would be Lem's Solaris. From what I've heard.

 

[Fcret]

Bradbury's one of the few older authors I've not extensively engaged with, so I'm hoping for that. I'm a PKDickhead and have read Scanner many many times.

Also a suggestion - maybe alternate between 'classic SF' and 'new SF' with each month. I can't be the only person who's read a lot of the classics already, but has taken a break from the SF scene for the last decade or so and is kinda wanting to get an idea of some of the big hits from the 2010s and 2020s.