Troonslop "Retro" Games / Demake games / PS1 Trannies / ULTRAKILL / Y2K trannies - Retro gaming is infected

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This looks like one of those free, browser-based virtual worlds from the early 2010s and has higher ram requirements than shit like Oblivion.
Speaking of which, is this not literally just the chao garden? It's transparently aping SA2's aesthetic, but with way less quality and far higher requirements.
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These people just cannot make anything scary.
if it were scary that would be triggering
if u say u are going to try to "subvert my expectations", then u already failed, cuz i expect that what my expectations would have been if u havnt said u'd try to subvert expectations

will be subverted
Subversion used to be subtle as a literary and creative idea but as I said when you do it for so long it comes full circle. The normal is just the existence of a thing not trying to make a point because you've subverted for so long that nobody even understands what the message even is anymore.
 
I think my problem is how games are now being seen as "territory" to be claimed either way in the culture war. "[x] game belongs to the trans now!" or "[y] game belongs to the chuds now!" and it's just like, who fucking cares? Why is this a fucking thing? It's this giant childish boys-vs-girls playground slapfight where there's absolutely no room for nuance. Wasn't the whole point about the 2000s-era Web 1.0 "gaming is for big boys now so GIVE ME BACK MY GTA DISC MOMMMM" edgefest that we were all grown up? Or did that just mean "making incessant dick jokes" and not actual emotional maturity? Just because I don't want to play propaganda like Ethnic Cleansing doesn't mean I want to see pride flags plastered everywhere, and just because the forced retcon shit they did to Bridget/Vivian/the Celeste chick pisses me off doesn't fill me with the urge to nasally screech out racial slurs on mic whenever I get killed online.

I'll try to provde an example. Again, call me soy or whatever for this, but I just played through Ch3/4 of Deltarune recently. I enjoyed it. I've even gone out of my way to look for the odd fan work or two because I find the characters endearing and I like seeing further material of them. And for what it's worth, compared to a lot of other indie RPGs out there (like that laughable [DEADNAME] example a few pages ago), Toby's smart enough to keep that shit mostly out of his work. Yes, the MC's androgynous (which will cause the rainbow crowd to insist means non-binary if you ever dare to call Kris a "he" or "she") and one of the main girls has feelings for the other, but at least we don't have shit like the worst parts of Alphys from Undertale (she's in Deltarune too, but she's very toned-down and you're way freer to be an asshole towards her with impunity, to the point it's hinted the MC approves of you doing so) or even further back in Fox's repertoire with whatever that repulsive fucking thing they named "Jade Harley" was. Subversive as Undertale was when it first came out, I wouldn't lionize the UT/DR mythos as high art or anything, but it's intriguing enough to keep me engaged with its world. It's something I'd want to connect with others over our mutual enjoyment over. I wanna see where the ride ends.

But with all that being said, there's such a vast amount of this awkwardly-shoehorned gend--actually, let's call it what it is: SJW bullshit in the culture around works like these, and I don't know why or how things got this way to begin with. Sturgeon's Law applies when looking at fan content in general, of course, and there are instances where the poison has sadly made it into the work itself, like with Ultrakill as previously mentioned. But when it comes to the sorts of works where I really shouldn't have to consider them "guilty pleasures" (to name another example: Friday Night Funkin'), I both understand why these works have the reputation they do and resent their fans for breeding said reputations. And while reputation doesn't (or at least shouldn't) affect one's appreciation of the work itself, it does make it hard to find others who enjoy said works and don't have incredibly grating personalities, or worse, dangerous psychological issues. I like seeing the creativity of other fans of a work. When fan work is good, it's good, and some fan creators even gain enough experience from their efforts that they eventually go off to do their own original thing. Aloof as many of us like to carry ourselves as, it'd be dishonest to say that participating in the discourse around a piece of media can't ever be a positive thing.

And the solution to this culture war shit can't be just "switch sides out of spite" or "stop liking that work". Because nearly everything gets accused of that sort of thing to some degree these days. There are plenty of joyless fucks on the opposite end of the spectrum who will will flippantly lob that label at everything except for... I don't even know what. Slop like Duck Dynasty, Atlas Shrugged, or some pompous piece of Rome-wank, I guess?

TL;DR: Gaming culture (and popular culture in general) just feels like one big fucking Mexican standoff nowadays and it's fucking exhausting.
 
Once again, I will raise Stardew Valley as the perfect antislop independent game.
Coded/drawn/composed by a single guy.
Only asks you to buy the game once. Has been consistently delivering massive additions to the game for free for 10 FUCKING YEARS.
No politics, no indoctrination, no globohomo, no pronouns.
Every canon couple is straight.
You can date someone of your same sex but if doesn't mattee because the game never forces it. You can play the entire game up to date without coming across ANY homosexual behavior.
Themes of family, taking care of nature, living slow, valuing what's really important. The game doesn't use the name of Jesus Christ Himself but you celebrate both His birth (Christmas, dubbed as the Feast of the Winter Star) and His resurrection (Easrer, dubbed as the Egg Festival).
Music is wonderful and one theme in particular manages to make me misty.
ConcernedApe stays out of politics 100%, he also did a hEckInG transphobia by not even giving the time of day to the troons asking for pronouns, which don't even show up in game because a) you can wear any article of clothing regardless, b) every npc addresses you by your name or just "farmer" and c) he correctly identified this as the usual transsexual technique of trying to make you bend the knee because they get off on it.

It's a farming sim and a slow game too, so clealy not for everyone. But if you dig it, don't be surprise you open the game and blink and suddenly 3 hours have passed.
 
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What you mentioned will never stop, because humans are territorial. Each group, or even individual, wants to claim what they deem to be theirs.

Media being categorised for one audience or another is for ease of identification, even if it's not official. You can only apply your advice personally, groups don't think like that - you're asking too much of a whole collective.

Games having qualities of some specific political wing or idea is a good indicator of it's fanbase. This association rings true in certain cases, like most fans of Deltarune\Undertale (Which I personally dislike) being some kind of homosexual or SJW. It's a normal thing that follows every niche interest - Greasers, Fraternity members, Liberal Arts Students and etc. are all known groups which have specific archetypes attached to them, because it appeals to those archetypes (Rowdy gymgoers like fraternities, Sheltered women like liberal arts, etc.).
 
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Undertale/Deltarune in particular is an uplifting example because, somehow, it got less troonsloppy over time. Toby Fox started as a fan, making fan-music for Homestuck good enough to be officially published; to then go on and live in Hussie's basement while he made Undertale; which, notably, had a Kickstarter which included fan goals, one of which was adding this horrifying creature into the game:
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That is someone's furry OC, bought in for $1,000. You can go look up "samael's" furry fat inflation art if you really want to torture your eyes. But the point is, it sold, and he made gangbusters, and the sequel Deltarune is entirely devoid of this more base-level pandering. Unlike Hussie, Toby Fox knows how to ride a fandom's coattails for fame and fortune, but has the good sense to only get as much as he needs to keep working. Deltarune doesn't have "fan trolls" or out-and-out troonslop. It's just a good adventure story that happens to have a deliberately super-ambiguous protagonist and implied lesbian romance. That's better than Undertale, and it's far better than what one would expect from a man canonized in Homestuck lore, famous for its backslide into Tumblr shipping bullshit and eventual collapse into a tranny singularity. But, unfortunately, it's an exception.
 

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and the sequel Deltarune is entirely devoid of this more base-level pandering
Except for the forced, annoying and cringe character Noelle, who exists mostly to push a lesbian ship that makes no sense and it's annoying.

Deltarune doesn't have "fan trolls" or out-and-out troonslop.
Except for the "they" but totally male protagonist and the hyper-annoying fanbase insisting it's "ma'am they!" There's also the tranny writer hired by Chapter 3+4, which ensures writing will get worse as time passes (once again, back to Noelle and Susie's awkward rant in Chapter 4).
Oh, and the only confirmed hetero relationship so far ending up in divorce and everyone else gay to some degree, even Burgerpants IIRC.
 
It's just a good adventure story that happens to have a deliberately super-ambiguous protagonist and implied lesbian romance.
You're stretching the definition of a "Good adventure story". Robinson Crusoe was a good adventure story, that would be true, not this;
Deltarune is a game, so the storytelling is already limited by specficis of the genre - and it's a poorly written RPG at that. It even fails at some basic RPG mechanics - you can tell me that lack of character customisation is a clever subversion, but I see it as heavy-handed decision making. Since the creator himself sometimes corrects people who refer to the player character as he or she, while it's a "They" - it's clear that the problem could've been solved by letting the player choose Kris's sex in the beginning. It's also extra lines of code, so I can understand why a hack like Toby Fox wouldn't implement it.

There's a lot of things in it's writing which seem to be left out to add mystery or mystique, but as the game progresses seem more like the developer (Or developerS) in this case did not think the plot element through, and left it blank for now. Obviously also forced romances and one-note characters make it hard to take seriously, along with some character dynamics just being recycled from Toby's previous game (Spamton is just a Sans replacement - silly guy who turns out to be overpowered important character near a chapter's end). Not to mention some plot elements and trivia being revelaed in social media posts, and not IN the game (Undertal had the same idiotic issue).

And the graphics are bad. I like pixels too, but there's a difference between the art in Fallout 1 (Which one person can at least try to replicate with modern tools) and the scribbles Toby Foxenstein and his crew of autists drew for UT\DR. I could go on!
 
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You're stretching the definition of a "Good adventure story". Robinson Crusoe was a good adventure story, that would be true, not this;
Deltarune is a game, so the storytelling is already limited by specficis of the genre - and it's a poorly written RPG at that. It even fails at some basic RPG mechanics - you can tell me that lack of character customisation is a clever subversion, but I see it as heavy-handed decision making. Since the creator himself sometimes corrects people who refer to the player character as he or she, while it's a "They" - it's clear that the problem could've been solved by letting the player choose Kris's sex in the beginning. It's also extra lines of code, so I can understand why a hack like Toby Fox wouldn't implement it.

There's a lot of things in it's writing which seem to be left out to add mystery or mystique, but as the game progresses seem more like the developer (Or developerS) in this case did not think the plot element through, and left it blank for now. Obviously also forced romances and one-note characters make it hard to take seriously, along with some character dynamics just being recycled from his Toby's pervious game (Spamton is just a Sans replacement - silly guy who turns out to be overpowered important character near a chapter's end). Not to mention some plot elements and trivia being revelaed in social media posts, and not IN the game (Undertal had the same idiotic issue).

And the graphics are bad. I like pixels too, but there's a difference between the art in Fallout 1 (Which one person can at least try to replicate with modern tools) and the scribbles Toby Foxenstein and his crew of autists drew for UT\DR. I could go on!

The ARG shit I understand, even if I dislike it. It drives engagement and terminally online autists who datamine games love that shit, but it does mean the game is no longer a packaged and done deal, which may be fine for a story-first 'game' like Deltarune, but is out-of-place in pretty much everything else. And that's the point, it's not a game first, it's an interactive story first. Of course the RPG part is bad when it's in the sole service of a narrative. The "they" part is part of the narrative too: I believe that it's not a "they" as in "I don't know what gender they are because they are wearing a mask and not talking" but a "they" as in "they are two people/entities", so it cannot be solved by "picking he/her", as that would only confuse things further and maybe even give ammo to the genderspecials. But I nor nobody else can know for sure because the story ain't finished, and it sure is weird that everyone is referring to a boy as "they". Coupled with the ARGs and whatnot, the game might be huffing its own farts a bit much, and there's reason to doubt that all the various plot hooks actually catch on by the end, but it's still a cohesive narrative that is, unfortunately, built around many people crawling over every surface and resource the game has, similarly to how Undertale had to be decompiled to get at any of the "Gaster" shit.

Toby has also commented that Spamton and Tenna are pretty similar. The man likes writing wacky clown dudes.
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The rest is just "I don't like thing", which is fine. I think it's a good adventure primarily marred by the meta experience (the character blogs, Spamton sweepstakes, the 'secret alternate route' being borderline impossible to find without outside influence, etc.)

That said, there's still time left for it to turn into out and out proud troonslop. :stress:
 
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It won't let me quote the post above but I believe the reason the snow grave route was so hidden away was because chapters 2-4 were all supposed to release together, with the hidden Shadow mantle quest in the third chapter acting as a hint on what to do, but there are some steps that you just wouldn't think to do even with all that info. I remember when it first got found and posted to 4chan and everyone thought it was complete bullshit
 
He is a shitty low budget spamton, without any of the traits that made him likeable and funny, it's the most nothingburger character he's ever made, I think deltatroon goblins are just programmed to obsess over whatever gets put on their plate no matter how bad it is.

And how the hell do they "mutually enhance each other"? They never interact aside from that one awful cutscene and have practically nothing to do with one another.

The chapter based structure of the game makes it so darkners are only really relevant in the chapter they first appear in, so it's really stupid how he insists on dragging along characters from previous chapters when it makes no sense for them to be there.
 
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Except for the forced, annoying and cringe character Noelle, who exists mostly to push a lesbian ship that makes no sense and it's annoying.


Except for the "they" but totally male protagonist and the hyper-annoying fanbase insisting it's "ma'am they!" There's also the tranny writer hired by Chapter 3+4, which ensures writing will get worse as time passes (once again, back to Noelle and Susie's awkward rant in Chapter 4).
Oh, and the only confirmed hetero relationship so far ending up in divorce and everyone else gay to some degree, even Burgerpants IIRC.
This is subjective of course, but I find Noelle likable. You could argue her crush on Susie is a retread of Alphys's crush on Undyne, but Noelle is nowhere near as grating as full-power Alphys. Alphys in Undertale was Tumblr incarnate: an obnoxious "le quirky nerd, im soooo trash" faux-self-deprecating fat fujoshi who just made shit worse for everyone with her incompetence, yet never received any comeuppance in the true ending because anything you could do to make her feel the consequences of her actions locked you to worse routes. Noelle on the other hand feels like actual "normie" teenage girls I used to know. Is she comically wet for Susie? Yes, but their growing friendship as of Chapter 4 feels more believably organic than Alphys/Undyne ever did, and it's also not the entirety of her character either--if anything, the game puts just as much emphasis on her relationships with Kris and Berdly. And aside from her passiveness (which multiple characters call out as a problem that needs fixing), she just acts "normal" for lack of a better word. At the very least, it feels like Noelle is legitimately trying to help or at least knows to stay out of the fucking way, which is something Alphys never learned.

However, you're right that Kris feels more definitively male than Frisk or Chara ever did, and I've often shot back with "fuck off, I'll call Kris a 'he' if I want" to exactly those types of people. But again, I'm not going to fault the game itself for the degenerates who gravitate towards it. This is admittedly the first I've heard about a tranny writer being hired onto the staff, but at least it doesn't seem they've had any noticable impact on the story yet as of Chapter 3/4. Knock on wood that it stays that way, though I do wonder if that's even a concern to begin with. Toby's been pretty consistent in staying out of the political crossfire and has made it very clear that Deltarune in particular is his story to tell (moreso than Undertale was) and one he already has long planned out. In any case, I haven't seen any of the signs of corruption with Toby that I started seeing with Hakita as the Knockout troons started grooming him.
 
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However, you're right that Kris feels more definitively male than Frisk or Chara ever did, and I've often shot back with "fuck off, I'll call Kris a 'he' if I want" to exactly those types of people.
And that's why I'd rather interpret the "they" as the game meta-foreshadowing rather than a genderspecial choice. We may actually talking about two characters whenever Kris is brought up: The body, the "cage"; and the soul, or the "player", if that even is correct. They are two separate entities that happen to coincide in the same place, as the game shows several times, and which characters directly refer to. The only reason why it's weird is because other characters also refer to Kris as "they", which could be an unreliable narrator or yet more foreshadowing. Kris obviously has a male body, and he might fill the same archetype as Chara, but they're definitely not the same.

Also, I don't see any tranny writer in the actual credits of the game. The only project leads are Toby Fox and the Japan-resident project manager Robert Sephazon, who seems professional, albeit there are many genderspecial artists, all of which are however only credited in very select visual-only places. Call me :optimistic: but I'm hoping Toby can wrangle the project and keep it largely non-political until the very end. He sure seems to have far more of an artistic vision than his predecessors, and seems to have had Deltarune planned out since the very start, which is a very good sign in a story like this. Most writers are incapable of conceiving an ending to their story when starting out, much less maintaining references between two separate works across a decade, but Toby seems capable.
 
The ARG shit I understand, even if I dislike it. It drives engagement and terminally online autists who datamine games love that shit, but it does mean the game is no longer a packaged and done deal, which may be fine for a story-first 'game' like Deltarune, but is out-of-place in pretty much everything else. And that's the point, it's not a game first, it's an interactive story first. Of course the RPG part is bad when it's in the sole service of a narrative. The "they" part is part of the narrative too: I believe that it's not a "they" as in "I don't know what gender they are because they are wearing a mask and not talking" but a "they" as in "they are two people/entities", so it cannot be solved by "picking he/her", as that would only confuse things further and maybe even give ammo to the genderspecials. But I nor nobody else can know for sure because the story ain't finished, and it sure is weird that everyone is referring to a boy as "they". Coupled with the ARGs and whatnot, the game might be huffing its own farts a bit much, and there's reason to doubt that all the various plot hooks actually catch on by the end, but it's still a cohesive narrative that is, unfortunately, built around many people crawling over every surface and resource the game has, similarly to how Undertale had to be decompiled to get at any of the "Gaster" shit.
I respect your ability to pick negatives in a thing you still clearly like; That being said, I will sperg onward:

The ARG, I believe, is just filler for attention - as you have also said it drives engagement. But, in my opinion it's still a negative, since this means the game itself is not engaging enough without the ARG element. ARG's have been in games for some time now, but almost every time they're introduced is when the engagement with the product is waning.

About Kris - this is an issue Toby has created himself. Clearly, he's not skilled enough in writing to handle both a story where the controller character is their own entity, and this meta aspect about the 4th wall being broken; So now he has to balance the character as an IN GAME character, and as a tool to realise his hypothetical about player characters being unwilling participants in the plans of the person behind the screen. The issues stems from the game lacking immersion, just like Undertale did - One cannot just let themselves imagine that they have taken the role of a character within the world, they are constantly bombarded with reminders that - "YOU'RE IN A GAME! DID YOU NOW THAT YOU'RE IN A GAME?!!!?!?!? YOU'RE THE PLAYER CONTROLLING A CHARACTER!!!!". It would be more impactful if the 4th wall breaks were subtle, at least.
Just like when you read a book, it's obvious that you're reading words on paper - but if the writing is good, it makes it all compelling enough for you to vividly imagine the described events. That's why I said that a simple character customisation mechanic would fair better - Toby isn't skilled enough to do otherwise. And that's why both Undertale and Deltarune are considered pretencious by it's critics (And me, obviously). It doesn't matter if it was intended to be an "interactive story" or not, it's not executed well enough for that to be understood right away. And "interactive stories" usually limit player's decision making ability, to hammer the point in.

One more point is that the story is overly-reliant on being depicted within a video game. A good story should be able to stand on it's own when, for example, just written out for someone to read. I'll provide an example - the METRO games were based on a book series of the same name by russian author Dmitry Glukhovsky; After the success of multiple game titles, Glukhovsky took the last released game in the series as a basis for his next book - which meant that both the video game, and both the written variant of the story were executed so well that they became symbiotic. Deltarune and Undertale could never do that, because they were created explicitly to be meta-games, they're too detached from reality to be relatable in story form (And all good literature has some kind of reference to real events, to set up a framework, even if it's fantasy or sci-fi). So much explanations and autistic trivia would be needed to depict Deltarune purely in text form, with author's intentions in mind, it'd be some discount-bin level fiction.

That xitter screenshot only adds to my dislike of Toby and his games - I can't take this guy seriously; He already got clout from his amateurish creations, and is still insecure in the decisions he makes - at least be bold, even if you're working for an audience with low standards. Also just blatantly admitting that you constantly regurgitate one idea over and over again.

TL;DR: Tobias Fox overestimates his writing skills, which causes problems in self-expression.
 
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Once again, I will raise Stardew Valley as the perfect antislop independent game.
Coded/drawn/composed by a single guy.
Only asks you to buy the game once. Has been consistently delivering massive additions to the game for free for 10 FUCKING YEARS.
No politics, no indoctrination, no globohomo, no pronouns.
Every canon couple is straight.
You can date someone of your same sex but if doesn't mattee because the game never forces it. You can play the entire game up to date without coming across ANY homosexual behavior.
Themes of family, taking care of nature, living slow, valuing what's really important. The game doesn't use the name of Jesus Christ Himself but you celebrate both His birth (Christmas, dubbed as the Feast of the Winter Star) and His resurrection (Easrer, dubbed as the Egg Festival).
Music is wonderful and one theme in particular manages to make me misty.
ConcernedApe stays out of politics 100%, he also did a hEckInG transphobia by not even giving the time of day to the troons asking for pronouns, which don't even show up in game because a) you can wear any article of clothing regardless, b) every npc addresses you by your name or just "farmer" and c) he correctly identified this as the usual transsexual technique of trying to make you bend the knee because they get off on it.

It's a farming sim and a slow game too, so clealy not for everyone. But if you dig it, don't be surprise you open the game and blink and suddenly 3 hours have passed.
I bought this game years ago but ended up giving up after a bit because the combat in the mines was dogshit. Recently started it and expected to cringe due to the fanbase, but yeah, Eric seems like a smart guy by not dating his game or himself by jumping onto political movements that end up going nowhere. I don't mind being able to do any of the gay shit in this game because like you said it's not forced or even overly celebrated.
 
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