🌟 Internet Famous Vivienne Medrano / VivziePop / NozzArts / @VizzieBizzie / xZoOPhobiAx / VivMind / Spindlehorse Studios - Bisexual Fujoshi Now Turned Asexual ; Criticism Denier ; Ruined Her Friendships Over Criticism ; Shotacon ; Nepo Baby ; Female Andrew Dobson ; Drove A Former Friend to Suicide Over Art Theft ; Verdict Is Still In, And No One Wants To Have Sex With Her

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It can't be that these people who watch these "bad video essays" couldn't already have disliked the piece of media, but just couldn't figure out what exactly what went wrong. Or they want to see a different perspective from. No, everything is done in bad faith. And we are being gaslighted into disliking these shows.

Why is it that everyone is disliking your shows Viv? Are they all just being brainwashed? Or could it be that perhaps the direction of the shows have changed from what the people expected? Could old writers being replaced with new writers have anything to do with it? Nooooo, we're all just being swayed by video essays from haters. These shows are actually great and we're all just petty and jealous.
 
It can't be that these people who watch these "bad video essays" couldn't already have disliked the piece of media, but just couldn't figure out what exactly what went wrong. Or they want to see a different perspective from. No, everything is done in bad faith. And we are being gaslighted into disliking these shows.
Viv and her fans should know better than anyone that people often watch videos to hear their own opinions repeated to them.
 
Imagine being such a reddit atheist, that you make a show about Heaven and Hell yet still refuse to put God in it.
The official explanation is because Viv and I quote "Doesn't want to offend people" well ya did it Viv, you managed to offend other people FOR OTHER REASONS. It's just a cop out so she won't cause more issues. Real shame since fanon God is made by two of her supporters as well as the ArchAngels. It'll be best if she didn't she'll probably make God a Tranny since with Adam she whitewashed him.
 
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A fancomic of Stella not being a cunt.
 
Out of all the criticism directed at Viv this is the one that I agree with most. If Viv is going to make 2 shows that say divine beings suck she should at least have the common courtesy to use fucking God.
I think in a more mature and nuanced take of Hazbin and Helluva, it would actually make sense to never show god and only have characters, mainly ones in heaven, speak of him, never have him speak to the viewers or be shown. I think this is mainly because God is such a divine entity, that it simply wouldn't make sense for anyone outside of his closest Angels to be able to even comprehend him. I'm not christian, I'm agnostic myself, but I think an entity such as god should be treated with such divine respect and grandeur since in this universe he is the creator of quite literally everything. incomprehensible to even most angels, he is all, he sees all.

I have tons of ideas for my own take on Hazbin Hotel, specifically regarding the handling of Heaven and it's angels such as Adam, but I doubt many want to read that and + this isn't the dedicated show thread, I just thought I'd give my input.
 
I have tons of ideas for my own take on Hazbin Hotel, specifically regarding the handling of Heaven and it's angels such as Adam, but I doubt many want to read that and + this isn't the dedicated show thread, I just thought I'd give my input.
I say give it a shot, at least a portion of what you have in mind. I'm sure plenty of us would be interested to see a different approach to this hell of a mess of a story.
 
I say give it a shot, at least a portion of what you have in mind. I'm sure plenty of us would be interested to see a different approach to this hell of a mess of a story.
Okay.

Most of my thoughts so far have been regarding heaven, as I'm really not a fan of how Heaven was portrayed in the show in terms of it's denizens (Adam) or the way it looks. Heaven shouldn't look like just another regular city, it should be an entirely different kind of civilization alltogether, with it's own constructions, infrastructure, way of life, and more. it shouldn't look anything like hell. The way the show presents it makes comparing heaven and hell look like comparing California and New York, which just isn't how an otherworldly civilization built on virtues and faith should look like.

Secondly, Adam. Here's how I would rewrite him and some events surrounding him because I do not like how he's written or portrayed in the show.

So Adam was there with Eve when they got kicked out of Heaven right? he wandered the lands forever guilty of his inability to stop Eve from breaking the one rule God had set for them. Eventually he would die, and where would he end up? hell. Adam wasn't a bad person, but because he was banished from the Garden of Eden by God himself, he wasn't able to go to heaven. He fell into hell and saw Hell in a more primitive state, Lucifer was still developing his Palace with Lilith and the entire systems of hell had not been established. Lucifer was thrilled to have Adam with him, it meant there was going to be more, more sinners, more inhabitants, he could have the world he wanted, he could truly be a ruler. However Adam and Lucifer had two very different ideas on what hell should be like, to Lucifer, hell should be it's own crooked paradise, a place where people sent to hell could indulge in all of the sin they wanted forever instead of be punished for their wrong-doings. Adam however had a different idea in mind, he wanted hell to be an eternal punishment for sinners, or at the very least, a place where they are doomed to wander as he did, he still felt incredibly guilty and never really agreed or followed in Lucifers footsteps, he knew he was bad, and he knew the people arriving down here would be just as bad if not worse, and he didn't want them to indulge, but rather to repent. (This is meant to address the criticism of hell in the show not really being a hell, rather a kind of sandbox paradise for it's sinners, the reason it's like that is because Lucifer himself built it that way, he's Lucifer. He's got an ego, why should he punish the souls who fell down here? why should he do what God and his butt-buddies supposedly wanted? God had banished him, stripped him of his wings simply for daring to question him and try something new, why should he adhere to what they want?)

Despite these differences, Adam would stay by Lucifers and Lilliths side, attempting in vain to convince him to do things his way, Lucifer never got rid of him because having someone who had directly interacted with god and had invaluable insight was simply too important of a person to disregard, and it stayed that way up until a long while later, at this point Pentagram city was being developed, and far more people had fallen into hell and were helping build it, the systems and hierarchies of hell were being built and sin ran rampant. Adam still tried to convince Lucifer, offering a compromise of entrapping people who had done particularly awful acts into a dungeon, Lucifer said he would consider it, but every time Adam inquired, he said he was still thinking about it. Fast-forward another long while later and Pentagram city is "thriving", and Adam was distraught. He thought that, despite his grievances, perhaps some sinners and some fallen would feel the same regret and guilt he did, that it was possible that he wouldn't be alone, but once he took a good look at the city, he knew he was so dearly wrong. Even the people who did genuinely feel guilty for their actions and wanted to repent were typically beaten in the streets, their skulls smashed open and killed over and over again until they just stopped appearing (for context, in this rewrite, you can die and come back in hell, but you get just a bit weaker every time you die, whether it be your mind, your skin, your flesh or your blood. You get a tad bit slower, you can't remember things how you used to, you aren't as smart as you used to be, your magic/muscles are a bit weaker, stuff like that. Once you die enough times, you enter Limbo, which is an entirely different thing I'll save for another time)

Adam, finally fed up with this, went up to Lucifer and his council ( the seven deadly sins, who I haven't fully thought out yet but what I'm going with now is they're basically incarnations of mankinds worst aspects come to life) and had a massive argument with them, saying that if he didn't start punishing the sinners, he would start punishing them, and for every sinner he punished, he would carve a piece of flesh off himself and force-feed it to the sinners, forcing them to eat their well-earned retribution physically and mentally. after the confrontation grew physical, Lucifer entrapped him in a stone dungeon at the very bottom of his palace, just like he always wanted. Adam is kept here, being tortured in all kinds of brutal and awful ways, barely fed, barely watered, alone, at the bottom of hell.

Fast forward to when Jesus sacrifices himself for his sins, I don't think this would bring all of the sinners down from hell into heaven, however the one man that would be saved from eternal agony was Adam. God himself interfered, offering Adam a way to rejoin his kingdom up above, Adam was confused, and initially refused, still feeling he was guilty, however as he was weeping for his existance, he closed his eyes, and found himself in Heaven with a new body, a towering body, atleast 12 inches tall, with 2 sets of arms, 4 wings, and one eye in the middle of his head, he was able to speak without a mouth, able to hear without ears, and able to cry without tearducts. He thanked God, he thanked and thanked and thanked him, accepting his new position as an Arch-angel with a promise of redemption and honor, cementing himself as one of Gods closest Angels.

THIS. Is why Adam doesn't believe in redemption, it's not that he doesn't want to, it's because he's SEEN hell himself, and what Lucifer has turned it into, and that was Hundreds of centuries ago, he KNOWS how corrupt hell is and what happens to the actual remorseful people, he's SEEN how people indulge in sin, he's been at Lucifers side himself and saw what he turned hell into, he was there for all of it. And if it was that bad back then, who knows how bad it is now, it's a place of sin, a place of unrepentance, and a place, of hell.

However, Adam offers Charlie an olive branch. You see, over the endless amount of time Heaven and Hell have been things, there HAVE been some fallen angels, they are few and far between, but they do exist. These angels are escorted down into hell in secret for fear of them being instantly cannibalized if it were known that they were angels, and it's treated as a tragedy when it happens. Adam thinks of his fallen bretheren with sorrow, knowing where they ended up, and turns to Charlie and offers her a chance to prove herself, if she can find one, just one, singular fallen angel, bring them to the hotel, and properly, 100%, rehabilitates them, he will consider taking it up with the council. Adam knows it's a long shot, after all, if they could not be helped in gods kingdom, a place that rewards virtues, how could they hope to get better or redeem themselves in a place that actively harbors and encourages sin? Despite this, he doesn't want to shoot down the idea, he can see that Charlie is nothing like her father, he can see the genuine optimism and glee, an optimism he wishes he could have experienced for himself, so he offers this one chance at true redemption. he WANTS it to happen, but he just doesn't think it can. Adam gives Charlie a list of fallen angels, what they last looked like, and where they were dropped off, and bids her farewell, hoping for the best, but expecting the worst.

What do you think? Do you like it?
 
What do you think? Do you like it?
Story-wise, this Adam does make a lot more sense; but I can't help but prefer the one we have in canon. Sure, the show attempts to portray him as a one-dimensional bad guy, but he's undeniably entertaining as fuck in every scene. Making him a goofy rockstar type was definitely one of Hazbin's better ideas.
 
I came back to tell you I searched through the playlist and found two gems (and others) some of which seems to be Smosh videos and Dick Figures, what I did not anticipate was the fact she added not only Rebecca Sugar stuff but also TEAMFOURSTAR. Literally what the fuck is this.
 
Story-wise, this Adam does make a lot more sense; but I can't help but prefer the one we have in canon. Sure, the show attempts to portray him as a one-dimensional bad guy, but he's undeniably entertaining as fuck in every scene. Making him a goofy rockstar type was definitely one of Hazbin's better ideas.
I respect your opinion, I won't lie I do find Adam entertaining sometimes aswell, and given the kind of characters and setting Hazbin has, he fits in well. However that's where the issue starts, the setting and characters.

I think one of Vivs worst writing qualities is her need to insert pieces of herself into every character. Now of course most characters that have ever been written or created do have some piece of the author put into them one way or another, whether it be basing them off past experiences, beliefs, ideas, fragments of personality, all that stuff, that's fine. What I mean when I say that is that Viv does this in the most literal sense of the term.

She finds swearing funny and does it all the time? Make it so all of her characters also find swearing funny and do it all the time! She likes gay people? make it so all of her characters like gay people too! Is she in the know with all of the modern sexuality stuff? make it so all of her characters are too! "Rosies "You're an ace in the hole darling!" to Alastor proves this) You see what I mean? In some ways, these characters aren't really characters, they're more like Vivs puppets. They don't have quirks or knowledge or ideas of their own outside of what they need to have to be properly considered characters in a show/comic. They're all aware of the same things and ideas that Viv is, regardless of if it makes sense for them to be or not, and most of them inhabit Vivs quirks.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but even some of the exceptions aren't safe. I'll admit that I found Alastor swearing for the first time genuinely funny, it was surprising, you didn't expect it, and it fit the scene it was in, he was genuinely tense and highly annoyed and the build-up worked well. Then she made Alastor swear two more times in far less funny scenario's, retroactively souring the first instance as a result, she just can't help herself.

Adam, to me, is the biggest exemplifier of this issue. Gods first man, one of the highest in command, in an entirely different state of existance to the rest of the main cast, and he talks like every other one of Vivs characters. Or, to put it another way, he talks like Vivienne. Sure he has the opinions and ideas required to actually make him an opposing character, but outside of those, he's basically just a mini-Viv, or, as I said earlier, one of Vivs sock puppets, it's like the worlds most expensive school assembly puppet show.

I'm not gonna sit on throne of puzzle pieces and act like I'm above swearing or anything like that in terms of humor or writing, I find swearing funny alot of the time too. It's not inherently the swearing that's the problem, people are gonna swear and cuss and slur in hell, that's fine. The issue is how most characters have the exact same attitude when it comes to swearing, with no language or vocabulary to call their own, no cadence, no nothing. I know I'm starting to sound like Chris here with his whole "Characters and CWCville are real!" type stuff but you get what I'm saying here right?

That's why I'm not fond of Adam, to me he represents the worst aspects of one of Vivs worst writing qualities when he could have been so much more.

Him telling Lute to chill out was pretty funny though.
 
I do find the AUs where they have Adam being the one that is trying to redeem Sinners interesting; whether he ended up in Heaven or Hell. It makes sense for essentially "the father of all mankind" wanting his decescendants to escape eternal suffering and somehow right the wrong that he made thousands of years that sentenced his people to Hell.
 
I came back to tell you I searched through the playlist and found two gems (and others) some of which seems to be Smosh videos and Dick Figures, what I did not anticipate was the fact she added not only Rebecca Sugar stuff but also TEAMFOURSTAR. Literally what the fuck is this.
Tumblrina writing cartoons; it's really that simple

I'm not surprised that it is filled with random slop.

Most tumblr users are obsessed with reference humor like Family Guy, but somehow more brain dead.

I am more shocked it didn't have more pop culture stuff like Epic the Musical and Bo Burnham to seem more deep and insightful than it really is
 
I do find the AUs where they have Adam being the one that is trying to redeem Sinners interesting; whether he ended up in Heaven or Hell. It makes sense for essentially "the father of all mankind" wanting his decescendants to escape eternal suffering and somehow right the wrong that he made thousands of years that sentenced his people to Hell.
When we were working on the AU, Adam was actually just a soul who fell from purgatory that ended up there, unless he gave his body up to Azazel to perform excorsists. My Friend and I thought of this elobarate thing. Since he also mentioned that Eve was also missing when they were sent below that means Eve was possibly Roo, that and Lilith/Rosie pipeline won't make sense, I considered vetoing it and asking him to make Eve Lilith instead, but he refused.

See this is what happens when you steal from your fans Viv, we AU writers have to find a way to unfuck the tangled bloat from your shows.
 
Tumblrina writing cartoons; it's really that simple

I'm not surprised that it is filled with random slop.

Most tumblr users are obsessed with reference humor like Family Guy, but somehow more brain dead.

I am more shocked it didn't have more pop culture stuff like Epic the Musical and Bo Burnham to seem more deep and insightful than it really is
Can you tell me what's so important by #23 for her to have added it?

Apologies for the gay doublepost.
bald.webp inanna.webp
 
I think in a more mature and nuanced take of Hazbin and Helluva, it would actually make sense to never show god and only have characters, mainly ones in heaven, speak of him, never have him speak to the viewers or be shown.
Other idea, he should talk but be completely unintelligible like the teacher in the Peanuts animations.
Then she made Alastor swear two more times in far less funny scenario's, retroactively souring the first instance as a result, she just can't help herself.
I liked how Moxxie's idea of swearing was originally something like "oh crumbs." Later he just started gratuitously swearing like everyone else.
 
I liked how Moxxie's idea of swearing was originally something like "oh crumbs." Later he just started gratuitously swearing like everyone else.
Honestly that voice actor being used was a big part of why I completely stopped even checking for episodes. It’s one thing to hate watch but I couldn’t risk them ruining my annual invader zim rewatch by tainting the voice
 
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