🪦 Deceased Elizabeth Waite / John Waite Jr. - You did this, Rat King

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Manapan said:
At the same time, I don't know why this is funny. She's a real person. Not all good, not all bad. Why does all her information have to be compiled for your amusement? I don't give a fuck what you say about me. I'm here to defend myself.
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I sympathize with you but unfortunately this thread existing is a reaction to people claiming we killed someone. We didn't know Waite existed until about a day ago when she ended up in the Trans life-line thread after she passed away. We're not strictly speaking tit-for-tat people but your community really shouldn't have accused us of murdering someone.
 
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Manapan said:
At the same time, I don't know why this is funny. She's a real person. Not all good, not all bad. Why does all her information have to be compiled for your amusement? I don't give a fuck what you say about me. I'm here to defend myself.
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A big reason is because the Farms are already being blamed for her suicide, people are touting that we bullied your deceased husband into suicide for their own gain. This thread was created for the same reason that you came here to address it, we're defending ourselves from false accusations.

I personally don't find his tragic, downward spiral of a life very funny.
 
Manapan said:
Haha, not like that. I said what I said and I stand by it. I'm talking about anything you say now. Anything you want clarified.
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I feel kind of bad asking you anything right now because I know you must be sleep deprived and feeling overwhelmed.

That said, I noticed that on reddit you said Lizzie's orchi took place two weeks after the first consultation because your wedding was coming up. Did you guys have two weddings, because I know from other posts you were married for seven years.

Also, do *you* feel that Lizzie was subjected to any external pressure to transition quickly or do you feel that wanting to transition as quickly as possible was more a function of her mental illness and trying to find peace of mind as quickly as possible?

I understand why you see no humour in this. It's absurd to the point of hilarity to us that we're being blamed for the death of someone we didn't even know existed, though. It's not Lizzie's death which is funny - it's the ridiculous narrative that we bullied to death someone before we found out she existed. Laughing about that is all we can do, because we know that trying to refute it is pointless.
 
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This isn't exactly the effective moment to be standing athwart anything shouting "Stop!"; that time passed right around the orchiectomy, I'd wager. The time when your agency actually mattered passed, and while you can regret it and try and repair the damage, it is what it is.

Threads here usually end when the subject dies, rather than begin. This is a strange circumstance. Honestly, threads here live as long as the subject/talking about the subject remains entertaining. Then we do the Dark Willow "bored now" and move along. So that's about the lifetime of this thread being active here that you can expect.

At this point the thread going away would probably just cement the idiotic "KF killed Elizabeth Waite" thing ("and then they hid the thread, but we know they did it!"). That we have a thread and its date is post-mortem is sort of an ass-cover, now. We didn't start the fire. Thank the barn burners for that.
 
oasys said:
I think that certainly a large part of it was due to her connection to Greta/TLL. Elizabeth is a real person and not just some exhibit. But the fact is that she serves as perfect proof of how the TLL is a dangerous scam, and how the trans community can be incredibly toxic, both points which can lead to responsibility for peoples' deaths.
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Agreed. Greta's scam organization has a real body count, both directly and indirectly, and it gets larger the longer they are allowed to wear the mask of legitimacy, and since they accused us of murder, I hope they are prepared to either prove blood is on our hands or just do the decent thing and quit defiling the memory of the recently departed for their own agendas.
 
Manapan said:
I am incensed about both sides using her death to further their own agenda.

The time Lizzy actually made it to an operator on TLL, she was on hold for hours first. If people are going to donate to an organization that helped her, it should be Capitol Area Counseling Services. They provided her mental health care, her case management services, and even helped her with housing and other basic needs.

At the same time, I don't know why this is funny. She's a real person. Not all good, not all bad. Why does all her information have to be compiled for your amusement? I don't give a fuck what you say about me. I'm here to defend myself.
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It's not so much as amusement, we didn't start this thread until after she passed. Only one person here knew about her, and he tried to get her help.
 
Cynical said:
Agreed. Greta's scam organization has a real body count, both directly and indirectly, and it gets larger the longer they are allowed to wear the mask of legitimacy, and since they accused us of murder, I hope they are prepared to either prove blood is on our hands or just do the decent thing and quit defiling the memory of the recently departed for their own agendas.
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These guys are kinda like the PETA of transvestites.
 
repentance said:
I feel kind of bad asking you anything right now because I know you must be sleep deprived and feeling overwhelmed.

That said, I noticed that on reddit you said Lizzie's orchi took place two weeks after the first consultation because your wedding was coming up. Did you guys have two weddings, because I know from other posts you were married for seven years.

Also, do *you* feel that Lizzie was subjected to any external pressure to transition quickly or do you feel that wanting to transition as quickly as possible was more a function of her mental illness and trying to find peace of mind as quickly as possible?
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We did have two weddings. There was a mass gay wedding taking place to celebrate the marriage equality ruling and it was a nice chance for her to get to be the bride, so we renewed our vows at it.

I think there's a misconception here. People seem to think that Lizzy was perfectly okay before she got the idea to transition and it's not true. Mental illness and substance abuse don't pop up out of nowhere. For the entire time I had known her she was interested in stereotypically feminine things and jealous of what she perceived as women having a better lot in life.

She discovered crossdressing, then came out as genderqueer. Iirc, this was around the time I miscarried our fifth child, so about April 2014. By June when John turned 3 she was identifying as bigender to me. By September she was out to me as a binary trans woman and had been through counseling about her gender identity. In October we started telling friends and family and she received approval from her therapist for hormones, then she never presented as male again except for job interviews. December was her appointment with the endo where she got the hormones.

Her family and I have had a lot of conversations about exactly what happened to change her so radically in such a short time. We all kind of feel like she got mixed up with people who reinforced being mentally ill and competed to see who could be the most broken. I think she was just trying to make herself feel okay but didn't know what to do.
 
The more I read into this guy's story, the more I ain't sure who feel sorry for.
 
Manapan said:
I am incensed about both sides using her death to further their own agenda.

The time Lizzy actually made it to an operator on TLL, she was on hold for hours first. If people are going to donate to an organization that helped her, it should be Capitol Area Counseling Services. They provided her mental health care, her case management services, and even helped her with housing and other basic needs.

At the same time, I don't know why this is funny. She's a real person. Not all good, not all bad. Why does all her information have to be compiled for your amusement? I don't give a fuck what you say about me. I'm here to defend myself.
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We don't really have an agenda here, and this one isn't for yuks, really. We're kind of pissed off that this scam artist running a fake suicide hotline that lets people die on purpose is literally claiming we murdered this person we never even heard of until the suicide. The motives are pretty obvious, and it's to try to distract from the repellent scam this degenerate is running by randomly falsely accusing other people of heinous crimes.

In general, I don't like grifters and con artists, but running a scam that literally kills people is way off the charts in terms of despicable behavior.
 
Manapan said:
I am incensed about both sides using her death to further their own agenda.

The time Lizzy actually made it to an operator on TLL, she was on hold for hours first. If people are going to donate to an organization that helped her, it should be Capitol Area Counseling Services. They provided her mental health care, her case management services, and even helped her with housing and other basic needs.

At the same time, I don't know why this is funny. She's a real person. Not all good, not all bad. Why does all her information have to be compiled for your amusement? I don't give a fuck what you say about me. I'm here to defend myself.
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As other's have said, nobody even knew about her before her death. As opposed to a lot of threads around here this one was made to shed some light more about the TLL itself and the people involved. Our biggest concern is actually the scam that is TLL which really does hurt people.

I know this may not help much, but to give you some insight on this website we are solely here for people who do funny shit online. We are not here to harass them, even though some people do for more laughs, but more often than not it ends up in an incredibly unfunny attempt and we make fun of the person who does this. Again, this thread is very different than ones we usually make. Smutley, the one who made this OP, even stated that this is not really an attempt at humor.

All of us here have a very odd sense of humor. I'd say 99% of us here also deal with tragedy in our lives with humor. Any jokes made about your estranged partner are made because people really don't know what else to say. We all use humor to enlighten our lives. We also try very hard to be realistic and don't want to be fake in pretending to care about someone we don't know. Most of us would probably agree it's a callous thing to pretend to care about the death of someone we know nothing about and try to show others how good of a person we are for caring. So a lot of people here come off as very aggressive or very uncaring because of the combination of this factor and the fact we want to look cool in front of our internet friends and crack some jokes. They really aren't uncaring people. The internet makes everyone look like more of an asshole than they actually are.

That being said, welcome to the site! Thank you for your input on the situation at hand. I'm sorry for what you're going through.

Edit: And to add, don't take any of this personally, as hard as that may be to do. Also judging by your Reddit posts a lot of people here are trying to show their concern for you best they can by talking shit about Elizabeth. We tend to have a lot of empathy for those who subjects hurt.
 
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Manapan said:
Her family and I have had a lot of conversations about exactly what happened to change her so radically in such a short time. We all kind of feel like she got mixed up with people who reinforced being mentally ill and competed to see who could be the most broken. I think she was just trying to make herself feel okay but didn't know what to do.
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I wish that wasn't such a familiar story to us.
 
Wow...It has been a long time. I remember when this use to be called the CWCki forum. Very interesting turn of developments.

Anyway, in regards to Elizabeth, I honestly don't think you can blame a forum for being responsible for her death. Many times we have seen that once more light is shed on the story, there seems to be multiple other factors driving someone to commit suicide. The Amanda Todd case is a perfect example of this. Elizabeth had severe mental illnesses and it seems many in her social group told her not to seek help and she refused to acknowledge she had a problem.
 
Manapan said:
We all kind of feel like she got mixed up with people who reinforced being mentally ill and competed to see who could be the most broken
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Yes that's the oppression Olympics these people who claimed to be your husbands friends compete in. It is harmfull and disgusting. We have threads on most of them.
 
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