🌟 Internet Famous David Steel / LazerPig / Ricewynd / Malquistion - Pathological Liar, Reddit Historian, Femboy Thirster, and Vore Connoisseur

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The Grognard said:
The problem with GDP as a tool of measurement is that it treats guys moving money on a spreadsheet just as valuable as a factory making an exact same value of steel drums. It leads people into thinking things are alright when half the country's on the skids. While I don't exactly doubt Ireland's farming sector is doing fine, it still isn't going to change the fact that the main reason people do business in Ireland is due to EU allowing them to work well as a tax avoidance scheme. It's not a robust base to build a modern country on.
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Yes people do business in Ireland becuase it's low tax.

The 'robust' move is what, to have a marginal 40% tax rate? Mainland European levels of unemployment are just side effects.
 
Trig.Point said:
Yes people do business in Ireland becuase it's low tax.

The 'robust' move is what, to have a marginal 40% tax rate? Mainland European levels of unemployment are just side effects.

Or they could be like the UK, a country that no longer has a single manufacturer of concrete.
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Robustness is more that if for whatever reason international trade and finance go to shit, the economy isn't perma-fucked. Diversification to areas that are not just spreadsheet wank. For Ireland, something like shipbuilding seems like a very logical choice. Britain today is a prime example of what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket and have that dictate everything.
 
The Grognard said:
Robustness is more that if for whatever reason international trade and finance go to shit, the economy isn't perma-fucked. Diversification to areas that are not just spreadsheet wank. For Ireland, something like shipbuilding seems like a very logical choice. Britain today is a prime example of what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket and have that dictate everything.
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lol shipbuilding? Are you high? European shipbuilders in Finland, Poland and Germany are barely hanging on. No European country particularly one on the periphery is going to be able to compete with Korean or other Asian ship builders.

If you're outside Asia or the US the the intell processor in your computer is manufactured in Ireland. lol fucking ship building.... the 19th century called and wants its economic theories back
 
Trig.Point said:
lol shipbuilding? Are you high? European shipbuilders in Finland, Poland and Germany are barely hanging on. No European country particularly one on the periphery is going to be able to compete with Korean or other Asian ship builders.

If you're outside Asia or the US the the intell processor in your computer is manufactured in Ireland. lol fucking ship building.... the 19th century called and wants its economic theories back
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At least back in the 19th century, governments valued their strategic industries and protected them carefully. It's a lost art in the west and people high on reaganomics tend to think long-term stability means nothing compared to making the number go up on the spreadsheet.
 
Trig.Point said:
lol shipbuilding? Are you high? European shipbuilders in Finland, Poland and Germany are barely hanging on. No European country particularly one on the periphery is going to be able to compete with Korean or other Asian ship builders.

If you're outside Asia or the US the the intell processor in your computer is manufactured in Ireland. lol fucking ship building.... the 19th century called and wants its economic theories back
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Not to be that guy, but the Italians and French are pretty rock solid at ship building. Not as fast as Asia, but you're usually getting a lot more ship.
 
WelperHelper99 said:
A fair few ship yards are in scottland actually. They're building the new Type 26 there right now
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Yeah but we're talking about investing in ship building as a long term economic move for the Republic of Ireland because a Scottish guy was wrong about a Russian tank engine once.
 
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WelperHelper99 said:
A fair few ship yards are in scottland actually. They're building the new Type 26 there right now
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Yes they've got contracts for RN ships that could be built to a higher spec for a fraction of the cost in Korea. The only customer British Shipbuilders have is the government. France isn't much better, but their shipyards were reorganised in the 70's and are more efficient. Even the SNP admits that if they split from Britain those shipyards are gone, because they are not competitive in open contracts.

There's the attempt to build ferries otherwise known as the ferry fiasco

My favourite scottish maritime story is the RV Petrel the ship formerly owned by microsoft founder Paul Allen, who used it locate famous shipwrecks such as the USS Indianapolis. For some mad reason they decided to put it into a dry dock in Scotland, and what do you know, there were just 'really high' winds, and it capsized.

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AeroGavin Rossdale said:
Aren't most of the ship building industry/deep ports in NI, not the Republic, anyway?
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They haven't build a ship in years, Harland & Wolff got massive government investment so they could start doing work on on off shore energy platforms, but they managed to fuck that up. That company is a zombie that's been pottering around for the last 30 years and won't die.
 
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Trig.Point said:
My favourite scottish maritime story is the RV Petrel the ship formerly owned by microsoft founder Paul Allen, who used it locate famous shipwrecks such as the USS Indianapolis. For some mad reason they decided to put it into a dry dock in Scotland, and what do you know, there were just 'really high' winds, and it capsized.
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It takes a special group of people to capsize a ship in drydock. At least Russian Navy misadventures involve floating drydocks.
 
Trig.Point said:
They have build a ship in years, Harland & Wolff got massive investments so they could start doing work on on off shore energy platforms, but they managed to fuck that up. That company is a zombie that's been pottering around for the last 30 years and won't die.
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>British ensure they keep your best ports and shipyards
>They suck anyway
Faith an' begorrah
 
MyBallsItch said:
The Scottish posturing about independence, especially since SNP did fuck all to advance their #1 stated goal, is especially insulting to those nations that had a history of being actually subjugated. Hungarians were willing to die for their independence twice and had the strength to pull Austria to the negotiating table, the Poles never gave up their language and culture to either the Russians or the Germans, the entire Baltics fought a guerrilla war against the Soviets when they saw an opportunity, the next-door Irish did too - what the fuck did the Scots do since the Middle Ages? Oh, sure, they had the Jacobites, a movement which preferred one king over another due to dynastic fuckery and was not even close to an independence movement.
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The SNP remind me of that one State Farm commercial that has the other insurance guy has a dollar on a fishing pole and yoinks it whenever the customer goes for it. Basically the SNP uses Scottish independence as a talking point and not much more in terms of legitimate action. At least, Sinn Fein was willing to align themselves with the IRA when they got the majority of seats in Ireland.

The Grognard said:
The problem with GDP as a tool of measurement is that it treats guys moving money on a spreadsheet just as valuable as a factory making an exact same value of steel drums. It leads people into thinking things are alright when half the country's on the skids. While I don't exactly doubt Ireland's farming sector is doing fine, it still isn't going to change the fact that the main reason people do business in Ireland is due to EU allowing them to work well as a tax avoidance scheme. It's not a robust base to build a modern country on.
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Not to mention the fact they only got about 5.2 million people so add another reason the GDP per Capita of Ireland is a main reason for them being tied at 2nd highest.

Trig.Point said:
They haven't build a ship in years, Harland & Wolff got massive government investment so they could start doing work on on off shore energy platforms, but they managed to fuck that up. That company is a zombie that's been pottering around for the last 30 years and won't die.
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Jesus, say what you want about the likes of General Dynamics or Lockheed Martin but at least they're willing to do a job.
 
Welf Welf said:
To be fair to Admiral Mikawa, he had no way of knowing Fletcher's carriers had fucked off and was under strict orders to preserve his force's strength. He'd won a lopsided victory against the Americans and Aussies already, getting his forces back into formation would have taken the rest of the night, leaving him exposed to air attacks at dawn if he'd pressed the attack any further. In hindsight, yeah, he might have won the Pacific War right there if he'd destroyed the US Navy's only existing (at that moment*) fleet of troop transports and marine invasion force as it bungled its landing operation. But with the fog of war in place, Mikawa had no way of knowing the opportunity he had, and executed his orders competently.
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I get his reasoning 100% and I even understand it, that doesn't mean it wasn't the wrong call to make, Japan needed to take carefully calculated risks in order to have a chance of winning and they just refused to take those risks.
 
Keep up with hating on the scots, a lot of the civil servent in the British Empire were scots.
In India, all over africa etc.
Shit, the majority of loyalists in Northen Ireland are descends of scots who moved there.
So everytime a scot go "buuuhuu we are so opressed" just laughed at them.
 
Foltest said:
Keep up with hating on the scots, a lot of the civil servent in the British Empire were scots.
In India, all over africa etc.
Shit, the majority of loyalists in Northen Ireland are descends of scots who moved there.
So everytime a scot go "buuuhuu we are so opressed" just laughed at them.
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Pig will probably just preform some mad mental gymnastics and claim the Anglos made the Scots do those things.
 
JJLiautaud said:
I get his reasoning 100% and I even understand it, that doesn't mean it wasn't the wrong call to make, Japan needed to take carefully calculated risks in order to have a chance of winning and they just refused to take those risks.
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The Japanese military were inate gamblers, what type of lunatics look at a war in China that's going nowhere and decide the solution is to start a war with the US.

The Japanese never prioritiesed attacking Supply ships or support facilities. The mess that was the IJN submarine service was just a sympton of a larger problem. Incidentally I listened to a radio program years ago discussing Pearl Harbour where the suggestion that they shoudl have launced a third strike which would have hit the Fuel stores and port facilities. One of the panel I can't remember who point blank said that if there had been a 3rd, 4th or even 5th strike none of them would have been against the fuel stores, they would have kept going after warships untill there was none left.
 
Trig.Point said:
The Japanese never prioritiesed attacking Supply ships or support facilities. The mess that was the IJN submarine service was just a sympton of a larger problem. Incidentally I listened to a radio program years ago discussing Pearl Harbour where the suggestion that they shoudl have launced a third strike which would have hit the Fuel stores and port facilities. One of the panel I can't remember who point blank said that if there had been a 3rd, 4th or even 5th strike none of them would have been against the fuel stores, they would have kept going after warships untill there was none left.
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The Japanese were big fans of Mahan. Tended to focus on the decisive battle a bit much, the Kantai Kensin, while missing that Mahan said the decisive battle was just the best way to ensure you had free reign of the enemies seas to actually achieve dominance.
 
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