War Pentagon Set to Allow Calculator Use on Military Entrance Exam as Recruiting Slumps - Who needs math anyways?

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Connecticut Army National Guard soldiers participate in a class to prepare them to retest and raise their Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery, or ASVAB, scores, Maj. Gen. Maurice Rose Armed Forces Reserve Center, Middletown, Connecticut, August 6, 2020. (U.S. Army photo by Sgt. Matthew Lucibello)

18 Aug 2023
Military.com | By Steve Beynon

The Pentagon is planning a change that will allow applicants to use calculators on the military's entrance exam -- a timed test that gauges academic aptitude and dictates what jobs in the military, if any, they are qualified for, three defense officials told Military.com.

The change in the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery, or ASVAB, could help relieve an ongoing recruiting slump, which is attributed to many young Americans not scoring high enough to qualify for enlistment. It would also put the ASVAB on par with how test-taking has evolved in the past decade, with calculators being widely used in math classes and on college entrance exams such as the ACT and SAT.

"We are taking a systematic approach, which will assess the impact of calculator use, and we are developing a way forward for calculator inclusion," one Pentagon official told Military.com.

The Army, Navy and Air Force expect recruiting shortfalls this year, marking two years in a row that the services have failed to bring in what they consider are enough new recruits. The Marine Corps and Space Force are more isolated from recruiting woes, given the small size of those services.

The shortfalls are due to an amalgamation of issues -- but at the forefront is a shrinking pool of qualified young Americans, 17- to 24-year-olds, who are eligible to enlist. Many of those applicants are being turned away due to poor performance on the military's aptitude exam.

Last year, the Army launched its Future Soldier Preparatory Course, a two-track camp for applicants who came just shy of the service's standards for academic performance or body fat.

There, soldiers have 90 days to come into compliance. The Army can graduate about 12,000 soldiers from that course into basic training, making up much of the recruiting deficit it saw last year with enlistees who otherwise wouldn't have qualified for service.

The academic track -- applicants who struggle to hit education standards necessary for entrance -- makes up the lion's share of that course.

So far, the Army has graduated 9,216 students into basic training. Of that, 7,045 went through the academic track and 2,171 did the fitness course. During the academic portion, students raised their military exam scores an average of 18.5 points, according to data from the service.

It's unclear when calculators will be allowed to be used during the ASVAB. The internal debate in the Pentagon revolves around updating the ASVAB, a test that has stayed relatively stagnant for decades, as the ways young Americans learn and are tested in schools has continued to evolve. Part of that evolution has been wider use of calculators and other technology.

However, the move to allow calculators could result in some public backlash. One Defense Department official said some of the difficulty in crafting a policy allowing calculators has been a fear over whether lawmakers will characterize the Pentagon as lowering standards.

Republican lawmakers and some partisan commentators have increasingly bludgeoned the services as "woke" over its efforts to be more inclusive and cater to a wider demographic of service members, such as updated maternity uniforms for pregnant female troops.

Meanwhile, academic performance in U.S. public schools has steadily declined in the past decade, with the pandemic accelerating that decline, particularly in reading and math, and among students from low-income families.

Even with calculators, potential recruits could still face difficulties.

In the class of 2022, the ACT test performance -- the testing results used by colleges for admissions -- fell to its lowest levels in 30 years, with the average score being a 19.8 out of a possible 36. Less than a quarter of ACT test takers last year met all four subject area benchmarks, which are minimal thresholds that assess whether someone is ready for college.

Nearly half failed to hit a single benchmark in reading, math, science or English.

"These declines are not simply a byproduct of the pandemic," Janet Godwin, the CEO of ACT, said in a statement last year. "They are further evidence of longtime systemic failures that were exacerbated by the pandemic."

Source (Archive)
 
I got a 97/99 on my ASVAB, without any sort of training or practice, just the basic California schooling. The article may make mention of the SAT and ACT, but I can promise you, even in my day; the ASVAB is nowhere near the levels of the SAT. The highest level math I can think of that was on the ASVAB was a two-digit number being multiplied by another two-digit number; if you're half assed decent with your times-tables, this shouldn't be a problem for you. It shouldn't be, fucking fight me, I'll bite your fucking ear off!

Nearly half failed to hit a single benchmark in reading, math, science or English.
Reading Comprehension! Does anyone actually test for this anymore? You can cheat/skate on reading/English by being decent enough knowing the language, and by decent enough I mean knowing how to sound out your vowels and that "The cow goes 'Moo'." Reading comprehension is a little higher than that, yes you can read it; but can your brain interpret what it's being told. It's one of the reason why learners have such a hard time with word problems in math. It's not that the numbers are scary, it's that they're not being laid out in the traditional # + # = ## layout. You have to actually read the description, then craft the formula from the data given; that's reading comprehension (abstract thinking), and it exists in many places outside of Reading and English. If you're not learning that, you're fucking useless.

That's where you're wrong, kiddo. The US artillery is populated by some of the biggest math geeks in the world.
Artillery and Snipers; when you're trying to hit something really far away and you have to take in shit like distance, gravity, and wind... you have to know what you're fucking doing. Hell, they still gave us the range books for range week; if you're grouping here, adjust your windage this way... guess what, that's simple on paper, but it's all math that's been calculated to know how the shit changes.
 
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Civil War 2.0 is starting to look more promising!
This is, 100% dead serious, the only chance a domestic insurrection would not be utterly demolished.

Unfortunately the (supposedly) 'insurrectionist' groups are even more poorly-staffed to the point that it's a race to the bottom. Few of them even have the brains to stay off social media, and could thus be pinpointed and droned in a matter of hours should ZOG give Biden's handlers the word.
 
This is, 100% dead serious, the only chance a domestic insurrection would not be utterly demolished.

Unfortunately the (supposedly) 'insurrectionist' groups are even more poorly-staffed to the point that it's a race to the bottom. Few of them even have the brains to stay off social media, and could thus be pinpointed and droned in a matter of hours should ZOG give Biden's handlers the word.
Bro they have no chance in CW 2.0. Even when recruitment was high the government is hilariously out gunned. Imagine urban warfare with thousands of apartments to clear where anyone could have a bunch of gang bangers with cannons?

People really overestimate the ability of the US military to stop a non central rebellion.

They want you to believe it would just be muh huwhite supremes because if the brothas break loose every major city is lost.

They could never take Appalachia. Just not a factor. The southwest ha fuck that shit the cartels will be raping NG diversity hires by the hundred.

The federal government has no real power outside of nukes and they cannot deploy them on American soil because anyone left alive will gut any politician they can find.

The US is done. It is all an illusion.

The only question is how things go.

Edit for: Oh and in the event of a 2nd Civil War taxes end. So all the popos that fags on here say will be on the feds side will go unpaid. The military will go unpaid. Who is flying those drones? Skynet? Any competent AI would zero in on DC and solve the problem.

It is really funny to me when people pretend the federal government would stand a chance if there was an actual modern civil war. They would get fucking pasted because the war would not be centralized. It would be hundreds of fronts all at once.

The fed would lose which might not be a win but they would lose and they know it which is why they keep trying to stealth more and more power grabs but it will never work. They are always going to lose...it is just that no one might win.
 
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I don't have an issue with this. They should have allowed calculators the whole time. No one should be depending on humans to do math mentally when they have technology with lower error rates. People screw up all the time. tech not so much. If my life was on the line the last thing I want to hear is we don't allow calculators. If they are too stupid to use a calculator then that's really bad.
 
I don't have an issue with this. They should have allowed calculators the whole time. No one should be depending on humans to do math mentally when they have technology with lower error rates. People screw up all the time. tech not so much. If my life was on the line the last thing I want to hear is we don't allow calculators. If they are too stupid to use a calculator then that's really bad.
What if you were a soldier behind enemy lines and your phone breaks? How would you say...aim a mortar? Math is kind of important and also a lot of recruits probably cannot read but I am sure that requirement will be dumbed down soon enough.
 
I don't have an issue with this. They should have allowed calculators the whole time. No one should be depending on humans to do math mentally when they have technology with lower error rates. People screw up all the time. tech not so much. If my life was on the line the last thing I want to hear is we don't allow calculators. If they are too stupid to use a calculator then that's really bad.
They give you scrap paper and a pencil. You don't have to do it mentally, but you have to prove you can do it if technology isn't available; and that last part is the most important part. You should be able to do shit in theatre, where technology and levels of support may not be available.

I didn't know anyone who scored lower than 95 and that guy was pretty much a retard. I always wondered what kind of person only qualified for the jobs that only required a 38 or whatever.
I was in the Marine Corps Air Wing (big brains *laugh*), and most of them were surprised that some people could get over 90. Like seriously mother-fucker, how hard is simple math, reading, and looking at a picture and determining how things would move if force is applied to it. When I went in to take it, I was the first person finished and the proctor asked if I wanted to double check my answers first; no, I'm confident I did good.
 
I know the "it's not like you're going to have a calculator in your pocket everyday" turned out to be horribly horribly wrong, but I feel it still holds merit on the battlefield. Unless they expect their soldiers to end up livestreaming their position for internet cred.
 
Isn't the whole point of the mathematics in these tests to check the persons actual intelligence, not their ability to operate a calculator? Nobody realistically expects a soldier to perform off the cuff calculus in the field to fire an artillery piece, but having the kind of mind that can do that probably means you're a good thinker and analytical. All the calculator does is confirm you can follow basic formula and instruction.
Ideally, you would need calculators for advanced things such as differential equations or discrete/continuous functions unless you were lazy or pressed on time. But alas, we don't live in an ideal world.
 
America: We went to the moon in the 60's baby!

Also America: Help I can't work out a 15% tip my iPhone is dead.
Nazi Kraut Magic aside; World War 2 right up to about the 1980's seemed like a massive jump in technology. Then all those people retired, died, or otherwise aged out, and the new stock fucked up with bad management, and now the next generation, pretenders that are in positions due to diversity or having friends in the right place. The brain drain is real; management fucked over the people who do shit and try to outsource shit as much as possible, while also claiming they need homegrown talent. Meanwhile the shitty management and its poison worked its way into the education system as well; and only the rich with the right connections get those fancy positions and are horribly unprepared for them to continue the cycle.

That or maybe the Nazi Krauts really did know how to do shit right... but that's be horribly racist and probably anti-semitic.
 
When they did shit good, it was very very good.

But when they fucked up...just read the wiki on how long the Brits read their mail in Enigma.
Can't forget the pinnacle of German engineering, the StG 44, the world's first combination assault rifle and sniper rifle, all for the low, low weight of 10 pounds, limited provision for field repair, and with mechanical complexity only a German could love. It also liked to jam when fired on full auto and the magazine springs were so weak 25 rounds instead of 30 was the normal load.

Meanwhile the USA built the M2 Carbine, which was half the weight, easily convertible from existing stocks of the semi-auto M1 Carbine, and so loved for its ruggedness even Che Guevara adopted one as his personal weapon.
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Can't forget the pinnacle of German engineering, the StG 44, the world's first combination assault rifle and sniper rifle, all for the low, low weight of 10 pounds, limited provision for field repair, and with mechanical complexity only a German could love. It also liked to jam when fired on full auto and the magazine springs were so weak 25 rounds instead of 30 was the normal load.

Meanwhile the USA built the M2 Carbine, which was half the weight, easily convertible from existing stocks of the semi-auto M1 Carbine, and so loved for its ruggedness even Che Guevara adopted one as his personal weapon.
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Not contesting, but the G11 outdoes the StG44 for bullshit German Engineering. There's a reason it never even made it past the Prototype stage and they only exist in HK's headquarters and maybe a few FUCK YOU I'M RICH collectors.
 
No, that's about right; simple shit with multiple choice, not a single short answer or essay.
While that's right for the vast majority of questions I remember there being a handful that were clearly meant to catch those with really good math skills. I want to say it was 3 or 4, essentially just enough to also weed out lucky guessers. It would somewhat defeat the purpose of throwing those curve balls if they ever included them in the sample questions. There were a couple rain man types I knew that actually got perfect scores and they saw an entirely different type of recruiter. Think suits prepping them for what a TS clearance will involve instead of some enlisted guy saying they can pick any open MOS.

I also think it's meant to weed out those that will hit a hurdle and panic. I remember something like 2/5 of the first questions were those types and a couple guys that outright failed told me they had spent all of their time working on those and did not finish that section. Saving them until the end gave me more than half the time to work on that handful. There weren't really obvious wrong answers to eliminate either.
 
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