Culture Why don’t straight men read novels? - Men often read non-fiction books in the name of self-improvement – but many are reluctant to pick up works of fiction

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Dazed (Archive) - July 22, 2024
by, Georgina Elliot

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Alex, 24, thinks reading for pleasure is a waste of time. Instead, he reads to learn about current affairs, maths, and Black history. Similarly, Finn*, 24, has only read one fictional book outside of his childhood. “I don’t really find the time to read, but if I do, it’s usually non-fiction,” he says.

Alex and Finn* both feel compelled to make ‘good’ use of their time – ‘good’ being a capitalist innuendo for ‘productive’. In our increasingly time-poor, grind-obsessed hellscape — 7-9 gym, 9-5 work, and 5-9 side hustle — coming up for air from being a cog and curling up with a novel just because you want to is a borderline sensual pleasure. “Our culture makes a fetish of practical outcomes, and perhaps because the outcomes of fiction-reading don’t patently lead to higher wages, it seems less worthy,” says Suzanne Keen, Professor of English at Scripps College.

Generally speaking, reading is an indulgence that women permit themselves more than men. In 2022, Deloitte predicted boys and men would continue to spend less time reading books and read them less frequently than women and girls. They were right: in 2023, women made up 80 per cent of the book-buying market in the UK, US, and Canada, and accounted for 65 per cent of all fiction purchases in the UK according to Nielson BookData. The bookish man is a rare species. Case in point: 1.2 million people follow the @hotdudesreading Instagram.

Meanwhile, masculinity continues to be in crisis. Men between the ages of 18 and 34 feel the most pressure of any generation to conform to ‘masculine’ behaviours. In the absence of a positive blueprint of how to exist in the post-MeToo world, a community of podcasting ‘manfluencers’, including ex-navy SEALs Jocko Willink and David Goggins and neuroscientist Dr Andrew Hubermann, have rushed in to promote their idea of what masculinity should look like. Self-improvement, ambition, and ‘growth mindsets’ are the banner messaging of this male-coded media world where Andrew Tate reigns supreme and the aim of the game is to optimise every waking moment to become a financially successful ‘sigma’. Doubtless many men enjoy the fact that reading non-fiction gives them an excuse to peacock their newfound knowledge and mansplain their latest read to their next Hinge date, too (bonus points if it’s Capitalist Realism).

This idea of the hyper-capitalist man with no time for something as ‘pointless’ as reading began to take root in the Victorian era. In the 19th century, reading novels developed a reputation as a frivolous and feminised activity as bourgeois women, imprisoned in the private sphere, took up reading bodice-ripping paperbacks as a pastime. Conversely, ‘serious men’ of the public sphere incubated capitalist messaging: any interest in reading had to be justified by practical utility. While for most of British history, men’s literacy rates far outstripped women’s, by 1900 literacy was actually more diffused among women. As author Leah Price put it in her book How to Do Things with Nooks in Victorian Britain: “Once a sign of economic power, reading is now the province of those whose time lacks market value.”

It is a cultural hangover that persists. A “cult of productivity is still imposed more on men than women,” says Dr Alistair Brown, Assistant Professor of Digital Humanities and Modern Literature at Durham University. “[Non-fiction] seems to have more immediate or meaningful returns on the investment of time.” Consequently, men buy more: in 2023, men accounted for 55 per cent of non-fiction book sales, Nielsen BookData tells Dazed.

Today’s problem also has its roots in the gender encampments of childhood. Boys are less likely to have male reading role models and are generally nudged by parents, teachers, and product marketers in the direction of other pastimes, particularly sports. By comparison, girls are encouraged to read and have a model of peer-to-peer engagement through their mums’ book clubs. So, naturally, girls spend more time reading and reading fiction than boys. This is, as ever, an intersectional issue: boys on free school meals read less than anyone else.

By the time their tween years swings around, a line is firmly drawn. Chris*, 21, who has recently completed his second fiction book in ten years, said he stopped reading at the age of 11 despite previously being a fan of fantasy books because he had “better things to do.” Naturally, such a stereotype cannibalises itself and ends up being reflected by the market. Young adult fiction is the near-total domain of the teenage girl — including what is made, marketed, sold, and read.

As we cut off the legs off future readers, “our culture closes off opportunities for boys and men,” says Professor Keen, who is also an expert in narrative empathy. “Consciously or not [we promote] a model of masculinity that is less introspective, less attuned to others, and less contemplative.”

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Could reading stories offer an alternative route through the masculinity crisis? By creating “a safe space for allowing oneself to feel, with no strings attached,” Professor Keen suggests that reading fiction is the diametric opposite of the stale stoicism of the manosphere. It is a form of immersion therapy that demands you be present and forget yourself to a meditative end. You also become “part of a community,” which “helps you build mental companions as a bulwark against loneliness.” Accordingly, there are measurable mental health benefits such as lower stress levels, higher self-esteem, and lower rates of depression.

If men read, it helps society at large. Reading fiction opens your eyes to uncomfortable truths and unexpected perspectives that you may otherwise not have sought out. Books can surprise you by “smuggling in knowledge through the backdoor of an enjoyable and engaging story,” increasing the possibility of critical thinking when encountering the topic again, according to Dr Brown. When you read, you practice perspective-taking, adopting the inner lives of characters as your own and walking around in their shoes – something there isn’t time for with the visual immediacy of other media like film.

Reading fiction ultimately leaves you feeling full up, a stark contrast to self-improvement imperatives that demand you be more than you already are. Carving out time for such a creative pursuit “refreshes the spirit and expands our sense of possibilities,” says Professor Keen. And in case it isn’t obvious, this is a valuable use of time for men too. Men are not inert vessels for potential economic capital that needs to be squeezed out. So instead of retreating further into the hollow temple of productivity, might we suggest a prescribed course of Fourth Wing for all?

*Name has been changed
 
Honestly from what I have seen is that for whatever reason even early on, boys do not see the value in reading and it goes for both fiction and non-fiction. Most of the time the focus is on sports/extracurriculars(which don’t get me wrong are also good) but reading by comparison is seen as pretty boring. Not to mention any books they have been forced to read while technically masterpieces, are also a level above what the average middle or high schooler can really appreciate, and firing that down their throats turns them off from reading entirely. Non-fiction however is actually required for a college degree and future work, if it wasn’t I doubt guys would read much of that either.
 
I avoided non-fiction since he had trouble even going through YA books with the reading speed of a young teenager. In terms of topics, I guess that he's unusually into Ancient Rome and Shogunate Japan. Religion and science probably won't be a success.
Did he watch the Shogun miniseries? I read the book when I was around ten years old and even though it's long it's not difficult. He might like that book.
 
Did he watch the Shogun miniseries? I read the book when I was around ten years old and even though it's long it's not difficult. He might like that book.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I've tried that one. He abandoned the series two episodes in despite "liking it", and either never opened the book or didn't make it past the first chapter. Honestly, I not even looking for specific recommendations, but rather a way to get someone into reading. I'm pretty sure that all the books which I recommended to him are gathering dust in some box under the bed anyways.

Did your brother just randomly discover Fight Club or was there some process to finding his interest in literature? As a more meta question for the thread: how does one make a straight man interested in reading and should it be done?
 
Did your brother just randomly discover Fight Club or was there some process to finding his interest in literature? As a more meta question for the thread: how does one make a straight man interested in reading and should it be done?
He got into the Fight Club novel because he loved the movie. My father is a big reader also, but neither of us could ever get him to enjoy reading. This interest has to come from within and since your friend is autistic I've often found it very difficult to get autistic people to expand outside of their very narrow interests. All you can really do is make suggestions of stuff he might like since you can't force him.
 
I don't know about that, man. The ending is suicide inducing and a rather fatalistic perspective on a man's ability to escape war as someone with a future to live for.
Well yeah. It will help you on the way to Fuck everything nirvana
 
The fiction market for men is anemic. For years, up until the 90's you had pulp novels that men would read. The likes of Tom Clancy, Stephen King, Dean Koontz, Michael Crichton and whatever generic action novel you could get at a drugstore. The market has moved away from that, and with moving away from that bedrock of the crowd pleaser novel, and people have fallen out of the habit.

It has been at least a generation now, where novels published for male tastes have been printed en masse. Even Scifi and fantasy have become like this. That segment of the market has atrophied. So men read book #1000 about the glory of Rome, or some memoir by some spec ops guy about doing situps and making your bed.
 
Honestly from what I have seen is that for whatever reason even early on, boys do not see the value in reading and it goes for both fiction and non-fiction. Most of the time the focus is on sports/extracurriculars(which don’t get me wrong are also good) but reading by comparison is seen as pretty boring. Not to mention any books they have been forced to read while technically masterpieces, are also a level above what the average middle or high schooler can really appreciate, and firing that down their throats turns them off from reading entirely. Non-fiction however is actually required for a college degree and future work, if it wasn’t I doubt guys would read much of that either.
Boys need to read things that will interest them at that age. Good examples are LOTR, Animorph, Artemis Fowl and other older Scifi or fantasy or military fiction. Boys like action and reading about some internal life or romance will bore them.
 
The fiction market for men is anemic. For years, up until the 90's you had pulp novels that men would read. The likes of Tom Clancy, Stephen King, Dean Koontz, Michael Crichton and whatever generic action novel you could get at a drugstore. The market has moved away from that, and with moving away from that bedrock of the crowd pleaser novel, and people have fallen out of the habit.

It has been at least a generation now, where novels published for male tastes have been printed en masse. Even Scifi and fantasy have become like this. That segment of the market has atrophied. So men read book #1000 about the glory of Rome, or some memoir by some spec ops guy about doing situps and making your bed.
Ya, two of my favorite books, Alas, Babylon, and Earth Abides, came out in the 1940s and 1950s. My favorite Harry Turtledove books came out in the 1990s.
 
By your logic posting and reading threads here is also a waste of time.
Somewhat. When it’s all the same recycled opinion, you read one page, maybe two and bam that’s the whole thread for a while until the lolcow does something. That’s why I stick to the features and new content.

But Kiwifarms does fulfill a necessary niche. There simply must be a place for people to call trannies gross perverts with all of their receipts visible
 
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This article is so dumb that I'm almost dismayed that there's five pages of discussion on it. Way too many negative references to capitalism as though churned-out cookie-cutter books isn't an extremely capitalist thing. The author has that stereotypical woman obsession with the Victorian period while taking digs at men's interest in the Roman Empire, too.
Young adult fiction is the near-total domain of the teenage girl — including what is made, marketed, sold, and read.
This is absolutely not anything to brag about because YA novels are garbage. I don't like gender war threads or topics but young women's taste for modern YA novels is a massive strike against them. They are not even shallow, to quote Nietzsche; there is one story, boy meets girl, and it gets repeated ad nauseum with different window dressing such as vampires or elves, or gay vampires. The only good thing YA fiction does is act as a containment zone to limit the number of women pissing me off by trying to turn Patrick O'Brien's works into more twee gay Tumblr bullshit.
 
I'm more into video games for entertainment, but I like novels. I read the LOTR books, several Dune books, Wheel of Time. When I was a kid I read like 10 books in the Redwall series. I'm reading Wizard's First Rule right now.
I think the writer and the examples are whining that normal men aren't reading smut, homosexual smut, rape-fiction, or any sort of feminine diaspora work. If I didn't know any better, I'd say the writer's a pretentious midwit and coping about normal men.

Also lmao this was a massive thread on /lit/.

I've read plenty of fiction. Just not vapid trash, which is probably what this glorified blogger favors. Andrew Tate is aggressively idiotic and should be dismissed as such.
I'd wager that even the genre slop written by the pulpiest of pulp writers back in the day is a far better use of my time than anything hackneyed out of this.
There's not a lot worth reading and even if there is you'd have to go through a pretty niche system to hear about it, probably by word of mouth. It doesn't help that most book discussion is female dominated, book clubs are by women for women, book stores are usually run by cat ladies, libraries are for children, etc. Men just don't really talk about books much.
Yeah I've noticed. Dudes have to figure out if the other dude likes reading or wants to get into it. After that, I've noticed the decision tree is pretty easy to figure out. Fiction or non-fiction? History, sciences, or philosophy? Life skills? If fiction, then does he like short stuff or long stuff. What genre? Fast pace or slow burn?

99% of the normal men (of every age group and profession range) I've talked to have admitted to enjoying Ernest Hemingway, Robert E. Howard, or something of a similar vein. I'd wager it's atavistic at this point.

I've been able to steer my friends into looking and considering reading more. Even in audiobook format.
IDK if any male readers here were fans of Michael Crichton, but Doug Preston is making the same kind of male-focused techno thriller novels and I've really been on a tear reading through them lately.
Extinction, the one that (despite everyone in the book complaining about it) is Jurassic Park in the Rockies, but they're de-extincting Wooly Mammoths now, was pretty good.
Even if he totally cheated re: the big twist.
I read Crichton's pirate book as a lad. Techno-thriller SF is a fun genre. May put Preston on my list to get around to.
If you read alot you just run out of good stuff to read or the books get hard to find.
Depends. Are you a fan of classics of an era, of a genre or set of genres, or are you someone who reads anything you like.

I'll admit I often steer towards a set of genres and to an older era of literature. Usually pre-1990 for fiction. Sci-Fi/Fantasy/Horror/Detective/Adventure stuff's my jam, but I've also read plenty of westerns, historical fic, and classics. I'm always down to sperg about literature. Fuck me, I'll even sperg about poetry. Tennyson's Charge of the Light Brigade, Poe's Raven and Annabel Lee, and Shelley's Ozymandias are my favorites.

You never truly run out. If you can't afford the physical copies, then ebooks exist. I get that it's not the most satisfying way to read, but it's a good way.
The major difference is that woman will read every shit novel you give them while never reading anything good.



Well but some novels are self help...
A Farewll to Arms will help you.
I've been to a lot of social gatherings and women always bring up being big readers. Then they bring up a lot of goonette fiction and get pretentious about it.

I've met a few people genuinely into reading and it's always neat. They usually wind up genuinely talking about everything they enjoy.

Good literature can truly help you. A Farewell to Arms is a good pick. I personally also think The Old Man and the Sea is a great one to get life lessons from too.
I'm going to take the opportunity to shill the thread: https://kiwifarms.st/threads/what-are-you-reading-right-now.3377/

Unsurprisingly very little of what gets discussed was published in the last few years.




So how about publishing books men want to read? This is a supply-side problem, not a demand problem. If books aren't appealing to men, they will play video games instead. There is hardly a shortage of entertainment options out there.
I think the most recent author that I've been recommended is Joe Abercrombie and his big trilogy ended a decade ago lmao. The others are guys like Ted Chiang, China Mieville, Adrian Tchaikovsky, and so on.

On my bookcase, the most recently published book is. . .Jack Williamson's Stonehenge Gate. The literal last work published by a 97 year old sci-fi writer in his 77 year long career.

And, the style isn't something "modern." The next most "modern" book is Gibson & Sterling's Difference Engine (have not read it yet).

If men wanna read, they'll ask their buddies or google stuff. If they google dark fantasy, they wind up finding stuff that'll appeal. If they want sci-fi, they'll find it. Otherwise vidya games and shows/movies exist. But if the people making all that keep shitting it up, then guys will usually turn to indie stuff or older stuff.

I grew up with almost all vintage media and it's great to be able to recommend stuff to my boys. Who gives a damn about the Bechdel test. When my lads want a rec on a film about Ancient Rome/Greece I just say "1950s Spartacus". They thank me.


Pozzed from the very first line.
Yep.

I get it if you're black and you're interested. Or if it's for an assignment. Otherwise the only black history book I can see myself reading are the Thomas Sowell ones.
I think the last bit of fiction I read was the sequel to the Andromeda Strain called the Andromeda Evolution by Daniel Wilson. It started off good and ended up as a typical action story. I was left thinking it just wasn't that good by the end of it.

I rarely read any fiction, mostly because I think history is far more interesting and anything I could get out of fiction I can get in history. Love, hate, honor, duplicity, heroes, villains, all of it and it really happened so it doesn't feel contrived. I do read a lot of classical literature and mythology. And I read science and math and literature and English Renaissance plays (Shakespeare and his contemporaries).

Basically, I just don't enjoy novels very much.
I feel like the quality of writing has kinda taken a nosedive in the modern (post 1990) era. History's a great outlet and I have enjoyed it.

I'll dip into both history and literature. William Wycherly's play called. . .Cuckoo something? I remember that one from college very fondly.


Maybe novels aren't your thing. What do you feel about short fiction? Anything you like there?
I don't know about that, man. The ending is suicide inducing and a rather fatalistic perspective on a man's ability to escape war as someone with a future to live for.

Any tips? I know a guy who could really benefit from some reading since he's a shut-in with strategy games being his sole autistic interest. I've tried sharing sci-fi, historical fiction, dark fantasy and basically all other genres except pure romance without any success. I couldn't get the fucker to even finish the first Harry Potter book or the Hobbit.

I disagree although my taste in literature is probably not typically masculine. Ryu and Haruki Murakami have been my guilty pleasures for quite some time and somehow I don't get bored of them. The Metro series is also a fun, not-totally serious read and Robert Harris' Cicero trilogy is perfect for any man who dreams of Rome daily.
I know a lotta guys got turned off reading because of garbage teachers.

Maybe try shilling some short fiction. There's a lot.
He's a shut-in without many interests or a strong personality. Still a very pleasant person to be around and I hoped that fiction would be the first step in broadening his interests. Personally, I can directly trace my love for certain sports to specific books.

I avoided non-fiction since he had trouble even going through YA books with the reading speed of a young teenager. In terms of topics, I guess that he's unusually into Ancient Rome and Shogunate Japan. Religion and science probably won't be a success.

Edit: I'll think of books based on video games. I think he's also into WoW which has some novels about it.
Ancient Rome? I recall Robert Silverberg did a series set there but I don't recall. As for Japan, there's always Shogun.

For an odder example. Get him to try de Camp's "Lest Darkness Fall." It's a 1940s era "alt-history" tale about a scholar winding up in Ancient Rome and using his knowledge to succeed and prevent the fall of the Roman Empire. I hear it's considered a classic in the genre and picked up a beautiful copy for a few bucks.

The writing style of de Camp's work was for the everyman iirc. Should be within his level, unless I'm misremembering something. I got vocab checked by some of de Camps contemporary SF/F writers. (Poul Anderson and Clifford Simak)
The fiction market for men is anemic. For years, up until the 90's you had pulp novels that men would read. The likes of Tom Clancy, Stephen King, Dean Koontz, Michael Crichton and whatever generic action novel you could get at a drugstore. The market has moved away from that, and with moving away from that bedrock of the crowd pleaser novel, and people have fallen out of the habit.

It has been at least a generation now, where novels published for male tastes have been printed en masse. Even Scifi and fantasy have become like this. That segment of the market has atrophied. So men read book #1000 about the glory of Rome, or some memoir by some spec ops guy about doing situps and making your bed.
Men read if they want to. They find the stuff they want, which is either easily pirated or often bought used. If they get into enough, then that's when they get the really nice looking books.

I suppose there's a reason we still get Warhammer books. Or Conan books. Or LoTR or Dune. Guys that get into reading will resort to hopping onto the good old stuff.
Ya, two of my favorite books, Alas, Babylon, and Earth Abides, came out in the 1940s and 1950s. My favorite Harry Turtledove books came out in the 1990s.
I just picked up a vintage copy of Earth Abides and I probably shouldn't have paid the price for it. I just liked the cover art and heard it was a book that ticked off most of the check marks I'm looking for.

I wish more good youtubers would talk about older books. Half the guys talking about them are boomers that sound like someone's passionate and spergy grandpa. Bless them. They're trying their best, but I'd love some good quality vids.


Anyways I think the other problem's simple. There's a lot of entertainment options. Books aren't even in the top 3 forms of entertainment any more. However, with the pozzing of masculine video games, movies, shows, comics, and tabletops, I've seen some guys get into books more often. Sometimes it's an experiment where they try to figure out what they like. I usually try to figure out the preference of my buddies that was to read.


If they want non-fiction, then it's a matter of finding the good stuff. Most of the time it's some book about Ancient Rome, or some wartime or age of exploration. I've inherited like 35 books on the Napoleonic War era due to a relative not knowing what the fuck to do with them.

We may not be getting as many new books that normal dudes would be into, but there's plenty of the good old stuff. Since 4chan's /lit/ board's got all sorts of lit/genre recommendation charts, maybe it'd be time for Kiwi Farms to have the same kinda recommendation charts too.
 
I have a decent sized collection of pulpy horror novels. My favorite subject is nature run amok so I have lots of books about animals on the rampage.

They're all old books too so that means they have wonderfully ludicrous cover art.
This one's about killer caterpillars.
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I walked through a shopping center with a Barnes and Noble in it earlier this year. Down the hall from the bookshop was one of those tall light up kiosk ads for it. It showed a couple of books with absolutely repellant titles- something BDSM-adjacent but twee. And the ad tag line was something like "need something SPICY for this summer?"

You go in the store and it's pretty much all that now. Plus a shit ton of manga, and a whole section of Legos for some reason. I wanted a Nero Wolfe book and they don't carry those. Any of them. Despite having about a thousand titles in "mystery." Those were all murder plus smut, I guess.

So still not seeing how it's some claim to moral superiority for women that they like reading shitty porn that is somehow also written for teenagers.
 
My abode is full of fiction books. Conversely I don’t think my significant other has ever read a book in her life.

I just don’t read boring soft-smut for middle aged single women.

Andrew Tate can’t read due to repeated blows to the head.
 
My phone and PC and home are full of both fiction and non-fiction books and I only like pussy
 
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