Wheel of Time - Discuss the Books and the Canceled TV Show

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I always forget that Moiraine is actually Moiraine Damodred, which makes her Rand's aunt. Or at least, she would have been, except Rand's mother didn't have Rand by her Damodred husband, but by an Aiel. She actually is Elayne's aunt though. It's all very sus, and I liked the part in one of the books where Robert Jordan carefully explains that Rand in fact is NOT making out with his sister, unlike Luke Skywalker. Still, it's a weird web of connections, and I forgot about it, maybe because IT DOESN'T MATTER AT ALL.
Moraine very much downplays her family in general, IIRC one of the reasons she took the "Travel the world" half of her and Siuan's plan is because once she got raised there were ideas of putting her on the Throne in the chaos after the Aiel war and she did not want the Throne because she felt the Damodred bloodline deserved to die.

Chapter 32: Dangerous words.

Summary

Rand, Ingtar, Verin and Loial attend Barthanes’ party the next night, with Hurin and Mat acting as Ingtar and Rand’s servants. Verin has them separate as to not offend the other guests and Rand feels exposed through most of it, trying to not stay in one place too much as to avoid conversation with the other guests as he distrusts them.

Very quickly Barthanes himself finds him and the pair chat, with Barthanes testing Rand’s knowledge of Andor’s court a bit, they discuss the Statue that Rand had noticed on his way to Cairhein and Rand disapproval of “messing with things from the age of legends”

Once Barthanes is satisfied with the conversation he goes off and Rand sees Throm Merrilin performing as one of the entertainers, and then is trapped by 3 of the Cairhien Ladies who are all asking to see his “Flute”

He uses talking to Thom as an excuse to escape the women and the pair talk for a bit, Rand tells Thom that Barthanes has the Horn and is a Darkfriend, and Thom expects that Rand wants his help again having heard of Verin being in his party again. Rand rebuffs the offer of help which seems to offend the Gleeman. Thom gives Rand a warning that while “Cairhein play the great game, it was Aes Sedai that invented it” as Hurin appears, telling Rand that Mat has twisted his ankle.

Commentary

Cairhein ladies are fucking degenerate sluts! SLUTS I TELL YOU!

There isn’t really much to say about Barthanes here, he does not exactly get a lot of screen time given that he gets himself killed after this chapter, which is technically a spoiler but we find it out like 2 chapters from now so it’s not really a big deal.

Thom is getting caught hard in Tav’eren web here, he just happens to be there at the night Rand is, and is in the room Rand is in..when Rand needs an excuse to GTFO out of an Adultery Trap because 2 of the 3 chicks who were hitting on Rand were married. The guy does not deserve what happens to him.

Chapter 33: A message from the Dark

Summary

Hurin leads Rand to where Mat and Loial are waiting, saying that he has found where the men who set fire to the Inn are, speaking in a more familiar manner with Rand. The other servants so disgusted Hurin that he has been shocked into acting more normal and sane instead of “proper”

The pair meet up with Mat and Loial and Hurin leads them all to the courtyard where he tracked the Trollocs and Dark friends who set fire to the Inn to, Loial begins to sense an Ogier Waygate as the Manor was built on the remains of an Ogier Grove.

Hurin takes them to where the Waygate is, an enclosed part of the Garden with no roof with the Waygate inside of it. Rand sends Mat to find Ingtar and Verin and tell them about the Waygate and that Fain has taken the Chest through the Ways.

Rand has Loial help him over the Wall to confirm that the Dark friends are not inside, Hurin follows as does Loial, Fain is gone, obviously having gone into the Ways. Rand opens the gate to see if Hurin could go inside and follow Fain’s scent and The Dark Wind is already waiting and attempts to escape the Ways through the open gate chanting it’s dark whispers with a single voice repeating

“Al’thor Al’thor Al’thor”

Rand instinctively grasps the power and begins to channel into the Dark Mass that is pushing out of the ways, using fire and light to attack it. Loial manages the close the Waygate and Rand wrestles with Saidin for a few moments.

The Trio leave and are met by Mat on their way back to the Manor proper who passes a message from Verin to “Do nothing and meet up with her and Ingtar to leave and plan, as they group up Barthanes meets them to say goodbye.

Barthanes passes on a message from Fain. “I will wait for you on Toman Head, I have what you seek and if you do not come to face me I will hound your people and your land.”

The group exit’s Barthanes’ manor and return to The Great Tree and discuss what Rand has learned and what to do next. Verin eventually decides, under much complaint from Ingtar that the only path they have to find Fain is to go through the ways and that they must go to Stedding Tsofu and get permission to use the Waygate there.

Commentary.

Toman Head, where have we heard that before? Almost as if The side plots matter in this series or something.

I wonder if Fain got some amount of information about Dark Friend codes from being touched by the Dark One, he is able to command Barthanes who is likely a high ranking Darkfriend given that he has a park with a Waygate that I presume is for Myrddraal to use to show up and give him orders.

Chapter 34: The Wheel Weaves

Summary

Thom Merrilin wanders back to The Bunch of Grapes after being held up by Barthanes’ guests, telling stories that were generally targeted towards Common People after the Nobility were intrigued by them, not that any of them really understood what the themes of the stories really were.

When he arrives at his room he finds Dena murdered, and two assassins in his Armoires, after quickly killing one and disabling the other the Gleeman begins to interrogate the one assassin who is still alive, he tells of wanting to know what Thom knows of Rand, and the woman that he keeps seeing as he attempts to find out more about Rand.

Thom kills the second assassin and the Innkeeper barges in thinking Thom is in danger, Zera insists it is time for Thom to leave the city but notices that one of the men do not work for Barthanes like Thom assumed, instead they work for Galldrian Riatin the king of Cairhein. Zera continues to push for Thom to leave the city but the conversation is interrupted by a sound that is as if the entire City just roared

Thom looks outside and sees smoke from the direction of the Grain Silos outside of the city, he tells Zera it isn’t only Thom that needs to leave the city but Zera blows him off, Thom exits the Bunch of Grapes..and begins to plan out the murder of a King.

Across the continent to the west Padan Fain approaches the city of Falme on the coast of Toman Head, the chest that contains the Horn and Dagger covered on a horse. He guides the horse through the streets trying to find the Seanchan Lord.

Upon doing so Fain presents the chest to Turok, claiming that with time he could open the chest, and the High Lord solves the puzzle easily having seen chests like this one before. Fain attempts to manipulate his way into Turok’s good graces, however the high lord has none of it, he sees through Fain’s words but allows Fain to stay around anyways because Turok is bored and hearing Fain attempt to create a sensible narrative may be interesting.

Commentary

P in the chat to piss on Barthanes, he existed for exactly one chapter and got beheaded by..something. We never really find out, it can’t be Trollocs or Fain because they left already. Ishamael has no reason to do it..so unless Barthanes decided to try and assassinate Rand and Lanfear found out about it I have no clue who actually did it.

Same with setting the grain silos on fire, I am going to have to remember bringing this up later when Rand is emo about causing chaos where he goes..really none of this is directly his fault except maybe.

Thom gonna merc a motherfucker, we have entire massive adventures for minor characters off screen and it kind of feels natural. Everything we know of Thom is that he is a bad ass motherfucker so I buy that killing Galldrian is within his wheelhouse.

Fain’s plot is weird here, why is he going to Toman Head? He Ultimately wants to make the entire world suffer for what was done to him.

Edit: Sorry I am technically late and gay on this, Fucking Quartering and Lily Peet drama was sucking up my time I accept any late reacts you give me.
 
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Thom is the Miles O'Brien of the WoT universe.

The only way to survive a black sword to the knee is to really really want your flute back.
 
P in the chat to piss on Barthanes, he existed for exactly one chapter and got beheaded by..something. We never really find out, it can’t be Trollocs or Fain because they left already. Ishamael has no reason to do it..so unless Barthanes decided to try and assassinate Rand and Lanfear found out about it I have no clue who actually did it.
I always assumed Barthanes was slain by
the gholam due to the nature of his demise.
 
Thom is the Miles O'Brien of the WoT universe.

The only way to survive a black sword to the knee is to really really want your flute back.
Having Power Forged Daggers (no really) Probably helps.

I always assumed Barthanes was slain by
I do not think the Gholam was free by that point, IIRC Samael found the stasis box during book 5.

Chapter 35: Stedding Tsofu

Summary

Rand and company head westwards towards Stedding Tsofu, with Loial describing what is called “The Longing” a change in Ogier biology which occurred during the Breaking of the World, when the Ogier lost track of where the Steddings were, the Centuries without being able to return to their homes caused them to become more attached to the Stedding and now if an Ogier is to far away from a Stedding for too long they become weak and eventually die.

Upon entering the Stedding the group is met by one of the female Ogier named Erith who offers to lead them to the Elders, along the way they encounter 3 Aiel women, Maidens of the Spear and are almost drawn into a fight until an older Ogier intervenes and takes Rand’s group to a place where they can rest while the Elders are gathered for the meeting.

Mat and Perrin tell Rand about the Aiel looking for “He who comes with the Dawn” and the Aiel that they had encountered. Rand denies having an Aiel heritage but the words of Tam and the Amyrlin haunt him.

Hurin comments that the Stedding smell clean enough that it is possible that violence has ever been done there, and Loial gives more on Ogier culture and that Female Ogier arrange marriages in Ogier because “Ogier men would be married to the trees before a woman if they had a say in the matter.”

Soon they are summoned to speak with the Elders.

Commentary

I was wrong, Rand did encounter Aiel before the stone of Tear, I had forgotten that he ran into the maidens here, he does not particularly interact with them outside of “I don’t want to hurt them turning into “Oh god how do I stop them from hurting me” in quick succession.

Mat wanting to GTFO is the smartest thing he has done thus far in the series, because unless Loial and Erith decide to physically stop the fight the group is screwed since Ingtar is the only one of them that could probably 1 v 1 an Aiel….Maybe I am not too sure exactly where Ingtar sits in the dreaded power scaling charts, I would presume he is at least blademaster adjacent given he is a Shienaran Lord.

I am curious about how the “Longing” came about, Ogier are a combination between Ogres, Elves and Hobbits so they are innately magical so I can buy something like this happens but it feels like something Ba’alzamon would plant given how many things he did just to keep the Forces of the Light from keeping stability.

Isolating the Ogier from the rest of the world and removing not only their long memories but the fact that Ogier are force that could stabilize things given they are capable of enforcing stability through violence if absolutely needed but are calm enough not to full tyrannical could have likely prevented a few nations from going under.

Hurin is a weird character sometimes, he acts kind of childish compared to even the main trio and Loial, but he is also someone who did not exactly sign up for “Go through the ways and visit the Ogier”

Chapter 36: Among the Elders

Summary

The Group is taken to the collection of the Stedding’s Elders, they press upon the group the danger of using the ways, even bringing an Ogier whose soul was stolen by the Black Wind for Verin to try and heal.

The Eldest speaks with Rand, noting that He, Mat and Perrin are Ta’veren, and that the fact the Horn of Valere has been found is an omen of bad things to come. The Ta’veren Trio speak up that they need Loial, and that he is a friend. The Eldest makes Rand agree to watch over Loial, but that the young Ogier can go because he is needed, and gives permission to use the Ways.

Rand’s group is lead to the Waygate just outside of the Stedding, and they prepare to go in..however once again the Dark Wind is waiting, as if it is specifically hunting Rand. Even Verin is perplexed at the events and it seems as if Mat is doomed until Hurin speaks up suggesting that if they can not use the ways they instead use the Portal Stones and travel in the other world that He, Rand and Loial used to get ahead of Fain.

Rand says that he can find the stone they used to return, and the Elder says there is one nearer that the Ogier had found years ago.

Rand feels a sense of dread, knowing that Verin isn’t planning on using the stone herself.

Commentary

I love that Rand, Mat and Perrin all speak up for being friends with Loial when questioning it with even Ingtar saying “he holds his own” Our boys have each other’s backs when push comes to shove and I love it, even if Mat is a shithead sometimes.

I think this confirms that the Dark Wind and Fain shared parts of each other, given that The Wind whispers to Rand and is drawn directly to Rand.

Hurin once again saves the plot, he has a kind of odd balance of inexperience with the things that are going on in regards to Ogier, Aes Sedai and Portal Stones..but he pays attention and is always the first to speak up with a solution.

Chapter 37: What Might Be

Summary

The Ogier Elders lead Rand’s group to the nearby portal stone and depart while Verin tells Rand to help her find the Runes they need, Once the runes were decided upon Rand seizes Saidin and starts to channel.

Rand channels the One Power into the portal stone, focusing on the Runes that will take him to Toman Head, and something begins to happen. The World Flickers.

Rand is back in the day of Winter night, Tam tells Rand to run and strikes at the Trolloc in the door, but this time in stead of dying in one blow the Trolloc grabs Tam, pulling Rand’s father down as it dies, giving the other trollocs a chance to kill him, then kill Rand as he tries to save Tam.

As Rand dies he hears a voice “I have won again Lews Therin.”

The world flickers again and Rand is back at the portal stone, Verin yelling as Rand feels the power rushing through him and to the stone.

The World Flickers again.

He lives a life where he marries Egwene, a life where he feels as if he should be doing something more but is still happy with Egwene who keeps him alive through repeated sicknesses and stable through wild mood swings.

After Egwene dies of Old Age the sicknesses returned, but the foes of the Light came from the blight. Throwing back the World’s New masters, the Armies of Artur Hawkwing returned from across the sea that Tore down the White Tower.

Once again he dies from a Trolloc blade and a voice whispers “I have won again Lews Therin”

The world flickers again and he is once again facing the Portal Stone, energy flowing into it as Verin screams that something is wrong.

The world Flickers, and Rand lives a life where Egwene died before their wedding. Like his father before him he left the Two Rivers, Tam teaching Rand how to use it before letting Rand leave. Rand’s skill with the sword allows him to gain entry into the Queen’s Guard.

He fights against the Armies of Artur Hawking, falling back until they arrive at the Walls of Andor’s Capital. Rand and the Queen’s Guard make a final stand in Caemlyn and he uses the power to strike at Hawkwing’s army until the enemy channelers destroy the wall he was standing on, breaking his body and as he dies he hears a voice whisper.

“I have won again Lews Therin.”

The world continues to flicker, each flicker another life. A myriad of lives until he is unable to keep track of how many lives he has lived. He works different jobs, Gleeman, Soldier, Sailor. Loves different women. Egwene, Elayne, Min.

He even lives an entire lifetime as an Aiel, but with the end of each life a voice whispers “I have won again Lews Therin”

Suddenly the power Flees Rand and he falls to rough stone, around him everyone has been laid low, Verin included. When asked about what he saw Verin posits

“Different lives for the different possibilities.” and then tells Rand that “We are in Toman head, however we did not gain time in the travel, that living all those lives took 4 months”

Rand checks on the others, Perrin is Haunted by what he saw, Mat was so traumatized by it he is curled up into a ball and grabs Rand by the collar and insists that “I would never tell anyone” with an almost panicked fervor, Ingtar has his sword drawn as if to fight away the visions that he saw.

Commentary

It is weird how some of my favorite chapters are the ones that can kind of be cut. Like this chapter does not really advance the plot very much given that we don’t actually learn anything from the visions but I still love it.

Rand lives so many timelines that could be considered successful where he lives his life without channeling and dies of natural causes but the voice still whispers to him “I win again” because Rand’s destiny is to face The Shadow, but we all know that.

What makes this chapter cool to me is that everyone got the visions, not just Rand. Not seeing what Mat, Verin, Ingtar and Perrin saw just lets your mind run wild with what your imagination can come up with.
 
>Be Verin
>Time to fuck around with 3 Ta'veren because hell yeah
>OH FUCK WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON

Many such cases.

All things considered, Mat is doing the best he can. All three of the lads are getting mindfucked on some level and I'd put Mat firmly between Perrin and Rand on how much mental duress he's under at this point.
Matt experiences the greatest likeability increase in the series, you have to get in on the ground floor and buy the Matt stonks.
Around the time he blows a hole in the side of the Stone of Tear with a firecracker is when it turns around, and he stops being the guy causing the problems, and starts solving problems.
Actually, I think the scene in the inn when he tells the darkfriend he knows everything and to fuck off , and the guy trips over his own ass and stabs himself, happened before that, so that's the turning point if so.
 
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