Weightlifting for Kiwis - Discussion and support regarding the art of swole

[24nagging]

it's so funny how a lot of guys have had shoulder issues, and it is common knowledge that shoulder injuries are very common in resistance training, but the OHP is fine
To train the upper body YOU HAVE TO use your shoulders, hence making overtraining in the shoulder the thing that nukes them, the OHP is just like putting dirt on the injury. Plus it has no value since it is a front delt movement

believe it or not 90% of people aren't lifting specifically to min/max hypertrophy

hypertrophy is the specific adaptation that happens when you gain strength. It's a short hand way of saying "being productive in Strength/Resistence Training". Hence if you do stuff that's not hypertrophic, like olympic weight lifting, you are just training the olympic weight lift, not actual useful stuff.

ell guys, my doctor diagnosed me with not being a sub Saharan African

I think you might be African, since you don't understand what "being built for" means
if you have a short femur you are going to get more out of the squat than a guy with a longer femur. Aka your quad will fail first and not your lumbars. Aka you are built for it. Nigger

@24nagging Always goes to the gym wearing a shirt that says "ask me about OHP"

I actually detest olympic weight lifting more than the OHP

 

[Champion of Khorne]

I’m absolutely shattered with viral fatigue at the moment. Would it be retarded to head the gym? Managed a couple of visits over the past few weeks when I was pretty virus ridden which wiped me out but I wanted to at least keep going a little bit.

Symptoms have just gone but I’m tired all the time. Should I stop feeling sorry for myself and just lift?

I think it’s what passes for Covid these days which took me out.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

I'll take a critique if yall are giving.

My current plan... Managed it for 2 weeks but been struggling to get back on it for a month or so. Was pretty managable fatigue wise, but life has been busy so I've been more or less keeping with cardio as a bare minimum. Trying to lose the last bit of weight and only time I managed to lose weight was athletic training 6 days a week when I used to row.
I'm wondering if I should, during the cut, cut out lifting entirely and just focus on replacing PPL days with HITT and intermediate length rowing again...
Other than that, how's this? Is there any redundancy I could cut out? I do 2 min rests (except for the core stuff at the end of monday and between the leg press and calf... I superset them and then rest 2 minutes before the next) so it's a good hour and 20 mins of a workout.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Check garage sales, flea markets, and the like for equipment. Tons of people make new years resolutions to get in shape and never stick to it and sell the equipment for dirt cheap. I wouldn't make anything myself, stuff that companies make is made to a standard of durability and safety that your homemade shit is not.

Estate sales too. You'd be surprised how much stuff old people have in their home that you'd never expect. Plus find your local 55+ community and learn when the HOA does their yard sale weekend. Good way to find stuff like fishing rods and golf clubs.
Just remember to not be an asshole. That was someone's grandparent.

 

[Jerk Sausage]

Symptoms have just gone but I’m tired all the time. Should I stop feeling sorry for myself and just lift?

You will stop feeling tired 5 minutes after starting to move real weight, and you won't feel sorry afterwards.

I'll take a critique if yall are giving. ... My current plan... Managed it for 2 weeks

I'll preface by saying I prefer doing fewer lifts that cover all the bases, unlike the other half of this thread which says you should only work one single muscle at a time and do 20 fucking lifts every session. Bugenhagen's "Wisconsin Method" is the closest to what I follow.

Personally, what makes me lose consistency or give up a program after only 2 weeks is too many damn lifts and trying to track progress on too many damn variables. I see 9 rows of workouts I have to do on a given day, and it's different each day, and I just don't want to do it. I want to go give one or two lifts my full effort and feel like there's nothing left in the tank when I'm done.

Looking at your program, what I know doesn't make sense (for me) is doing a variation of a lift twice in one workout session. Doing a flat benchpress and then an incline benchpress means that I cannot give maximum effort and reach RPE8+ on the flat bench, otherwise I will have nothing left for the incline bench. That means I'll go lighter weight on everything, and reach exhaustion on none of them.

You say it works for you, and that you're not fatigued, so I guess just ask yourself: What makes you stop it?

 

[Mr. Anderson]

You will stop feeling tired 5 minutes after starting to move real weight, and you won't feel sorry afterwards.

I'll preface by saying I prefer doing fewer lifts that cover all the bases, unlike the other half of this thread which says you should only work one single muscle at a time and do 20 fucking lifts every session. Bugenhagen's "Wisconsin Method" is the closest to what I follow.

Personally, what makes me lose consistency or give up a program after only 2 weeks is too many damn lifts and trying to track progress on too many damn variables. I see 9 rows of workouts I have to do on a given day, and it's different each day, and I just don't want to do it. I want to go give one or two lifts my full effort and feel like there's nothing left in the tank when I'm done.

Looking at your program, what I know doesn't make sense (for me) is doing a variation of a lift twice in one workout session. Doing a flat benchpress and then an incline benchpress means that I cannot give maximum effort and reach RPE8+ on the flat bench, otherwise I will have nothing left for the incline bench. That means I'll go lighter weight on everything, and reach exhaustion on none of them.

You say it works for you, and that you're not fatigued, so I guess just ask yourself: What makes you stop it?

Thanks! I use them to hit two different ends, but I have thought about removing the incline. While I want to get both up, it feels kinda excessive.
I built this for time so it matches the time I spend on cardio. While it seems long at first, once you get going with it, it's not too bad. I also have to go 35 minutes to get to my gym (but I get my membership CRAZY cheap, like half off) so I want to make the most of it.
But I do also generally focus on the standard bench. That's my primary mover. The incline is just to support. Originally I did 5x5 there too, but it's a lot of work. I might bump it back down to 95lbs. It just sucks taking up an incline bench for 95 lbs....

 

[Jerk Sausage]

I also have to go 35 minutes to get to my gym

Yea that sucks, I understand the desire to make it feel like you got your time's worth. But look at it like: If you drive 35 minutes to a restaurant, do you have to try everything on the menu? Or can you just enjoy the one thing you went there for?

It just sucks taking up an incline bench for 95 lbs....

So the gym social dynamics suck as well; worrying if someone is giving you a side eye for being on one station for too long, or judging for what weight you're doing. If there's only a few squat racks or a few benches, on a busy day surely someone is going to be annoyed that they're all taken, and start judging the person who is doing the least on one of them.

Magic words: "I came here to do X, I will be on this for another Y minutes". Is there a time limit on how long someone can use a thing? If not, just be direct about what you're doing. If they are aggressive about it, tell them to take it up with the front desk. If they're friendly, tell them what you're doing and let them work in if it's not inconvenient.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Yea that sucks, I understand the desire to make it feel like you got your time's worth. But look at it like: If you drive 35 minutes to a restaurant, do you have to try everything on the menu? Or can you just enjoy the one thing you went there for?

So the gym social dynamics suck as well; worrying if someone is giving you a side eye for being on one station for too long, or judging for what weight you're doing. If there's only a few squat racks or a few benches, on a busy day surely someone is going to be annoyed that they're all taken, and start judging the person who is doing the least on one of them.

Magic words: "I came here to do X, I will be on this for another Y minutes". Is there a time limit on how long someone can use a thing? If not, just be direct about what you're doing. If they aggressive about it, tell them to take it up with the front desk. If they're friendly, tell them what you're doing and let them work in if it's not inconvenient.

I mean more for my own feeling. Like I was annoyed with myself until my bench broke 100lbs.
I might lower my rest during my incline in combination with the lower weight....

 

[Jerk Sausage]

I mean more for my own feeling. Like I was annoyed with myself until my bench broke 100lbs.
I might lower my rest during my incline in combination with the lower weight....

Monday A: Flat Bench
Monday B: Incline Bench

I assume you'd be doing much more than 100lbs on incline if it was your primary goal for that session, and it wasn't immediately after a 5x5 flat bench.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Monday A: Flat Bench
Monday B: Incline Bench

I assume you'd be doing much more than 100lbs on incline if it was your primary goal for that session, and it wasn't immediately after a 5x5 flat bench.

Eh. I got up to 115lb before and 150lb peak on the bench.
The hard part is just going. I fell out of the habit and I need to go. Especially because I am not going to be able to do 6 days a week when I start working 3-4 12 hour shifts in a few months.
Not a bad idea to shift, but I think for now I'm just going to focus on incline being a ligher recovery. Probably just go back down to 95lb. Thanks!

 

[sodaboard]

finally used the calf extension machine for the first time instead of doing it with a bar + weights since it got to the point where it felt like my back would snap in half and i wasn't really feeling anything in my calves anyways. the machine is way better for this, actually got DOMS in my calves for the first time in forever so it's clearly doing something different.
also did 100lb 1x8 bench for the first time (100lb of weights + 45lb bar i still don't know if that's included or not), i have a runner-type body so i'll probably never get swole like some of you but it's a first for me

 

[Champion of Khorne]

finally used the calf extension machine for the first time instead of doing it with a bar + weights since it got to the point where it felt like my back would snap in half and i wasn't really feeling anything in my calves anyways. the machine is way better for this, actually got DOMS in my calves for the first time in forever so it's clearly doing something different.
also did 100lb 1x8 bench for the first time (100lb of weights + 45lb bar i still don't know if that's included or not), i have a runner-type body so i'll probably never get swole like some of you but it's a first for me

My leg days are pretty much 100% on machines these days. I can’t fault them.

 

[Harambe]

finally used the calf extension machine for the first time instead of doing it with a bar + weights since it got to the point where it felt like my back would snap in half and i wasn't really feeling anything in my calves anyways. the machine is way better for this, actually got DOMS in my calves for the first time in forever so it's clearly doing something different.
also did 100lb 1x8 bench for the first time (100lb of weights + 45lb bar i still don't know if that's included or not), i have a runner-type body so i'll probably never get swole like some of you but it's a first for me

It is included, one plate (as in one plate per side) is commonly understood to be 135. So you’re making your way up there! If you’re eating right and benching more than once a week and taking arm training serious your bench can fly up from here. If you’re serious 2 plates (225 pounds or 100kg) is going to be a real possibility in a 6 month - 1 year horizon.

And your body type is determined by what you do, if you eat a lot and spend a lot of time lifting that runner body is gonna turn into a bodybuilder body. Follow your goals!

Also, if you’ve got strong calves, I’d say the smith machine (the barbell on rails one) and a step board is longer term the best thing. Your calves are some of your only muscles that are basically always gonna be working so as far as I can tell they respond best to high weight high volume training.

 

[24nagging]

I’m absolutely shattered with viral fatigue at the moment. Would it be retarded to head the gym?

yes

I'll take a critique if yall are giving.

How close to failure are you going? Because you are going to 0 to 2 reps in reserve this is has too many sets. If you are doing like 3 to 5 reps, it's fine. Now, if you don't know what failure feels like because you never done I highly advice you to do so, so you can have an idea of what actual 1 to 2 RIR vs 3 to 5 RIR feels like.
For monday I would cut the shoulder press and replace with more lateral raises (be it machine or DBs) or upright rows (done right) or face pulls, and cut the 1m plank. If you are not a beginner it doesn't provide enough resistance, specially if don't add time over time

for wednesday... why are you doing inverted rows? are you actually a beginner? If you insist on doing it, I would put the Barbell row first, and leave the inverted row for the end or something

For friday is fine

I would argue that you are doing too much. I can't imagine that this workout doesn't last less than an hour an half. I would cut out different variations of the same movement and just do one or two (example: one version of a vertical row, and one version of a horizontal row), and I would up my intensety so I wouldn't have to do so many sets. But if you really like high volume this is a fine-ish work out

finally used the calf extension machine for the first time instead of doing it with a bar + weights

most men can calf raise more than what they can comfortably shoulder, so machines are the best for calves

 

[Mr. Anderson]

yes

How close to failure are you going? Because you are going to 0 to 2 reps in reserve this is has too many sets. If you are doing like 3 to 5 reps, it's fine. Now, if you don't know what failure feels like because you never done I highly advice you to do so, so you can have an idea of what actual 1 to 2 RIR vs 3 to 5 RIR feels like.
For monday I would cut the shoulder press and replace with more lateral raises (be it machine or DBs) or upright rows (done right) or face pulls, and cut the 1m plank. If you are not a beginner it doesn't provide enough resistance, specially if don't add time over time

for wednesday... why are you doing inverted rows? are you actually a beginner? If you insist on doing it, I would put the Barbell row first, and leave the inverted row for the end or something

For friday is fine

I would argue that you are doing too much. I can't imagine that this workout doesn't last less than an hour an half. I would cut out different variations of the same movement and just do one or two (example: one version of a vertical row, and one version of a horizontal row), and I would up my intensety so I wouldn't have to do so many sets. But if you really like high volume this is a fine-ish work out

most men can calf raise more than what they can comfortably shoulder, so machines are the best for calves

Inverted row is a combination of warmup and trying to get myself to a point where I can do some reps on pull ups. I found it works the same muscles the best.
Plank is about getting some core in and kinda a mental thing. Push myself to work through it and work the time up. Eventually it'll go away. It's a real time sink.
I feel like shoulder press is really been a solid benefit. I'm actually getting quite a workout there. The incline is really where I fail to get to failure really. It's too soon after the bench and is more an accessory work that's not taken as seriously generally. Bench I do reach failure. I was stepping it up before I fell off and got it to start at 135 and end at 150. Now I do straight 135 because by the end of it I'm genuinely at my limit. But also, I've been doing this while cutting so I'm thinking of more maintenance level work and less pushing to up my weight. Just focus on moving the weight and reaching failure on the primaries.
All days are 1hr 20 mins.
Calf raises I was up to 5 plates on the 118lb leg press sled. Bumped it down to 4 plates (47 since I've been away and this is more accessory to the squat. That's why I rep the shit out of the calf raise and just go right into it.
I have been generally more a volume person. I'll keep your words in mind though for down the line.

 

[24nagging]

I have been generally more a volume person. I'll keep your words in mind though for down the line.

see how it goes
find what works best for you, and what you actually like as long as it doesn't injure you. Keep in mind that there are no sacred cows in the gym, so if you have to ditch a movement, do it

 

[DSP's Tax Lawyer]

I actually detest olympic weight lifting more than the OHP

I just recently maxxed out. 155 pounds for snatch and 205 pounds for the clean and jerk. Still working on it but doing well. Glad I added a day devoted to olympic lifting

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

I’m absolutely shattered with viral fatigue at the moment.

"Viral fatigue"? Do you have HIV or something

 

[Champion of Khorne]

"Viral fatigue"? Do you have HIV or something

Read the last sentence of the post you quoted. It was hardly the length of a post that required a “TL;DR not AIDS”