The Amazing Digital Circus - Western Isekai that probably will become Hazbin Hotel killer

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Im sure there's a name for this trope, but why did every character turn into an idiot when they made it to the button room? Why didn't Pomni just ask Kinger right then and there if he remembered anyone named Abel? Or tell Ragatha about Abel's cryptic warning before throwing her into Caine's office? Hell, why didn't Zooble bring up that she spoke to Kinger in the dark and he didn't remember Abel? It's really hard to suspend my disbelief when characters conveniently start acting like idiots at the most inconvenient times.
The cause is the mystery box (which tvtropes files under Jigsaw Puzzle Plot), the symptom is general contrived stupidity. If they simply did what they would have done as a character, there would be no dramatic reveal, and the end result of "all your theories are shit and suck" wouldn't work. It honestly would've been better if Caine laughed in everyone's face and gave them an actual "Fell For It Again" award, at least then it'd make more sense and maintain Caine as not outwardly malicious.
 
I'm honestly surprised the "Jax killed a little girl" theory is blowing up so hard considering nothing in the show supports it. At first I thought it might just be jax haters again, but now I'm thinking it might be due to the fnaf movie coming out recently? "Jax is purple guy" is a meme I've seen circulating, so maybe its all ironic, idk. Introducing child murder in episode 7 of 9 of your pg-13 show about how friendship solves everything seems kinda weird

It's hilarious because back in my days, a character in a fantasy world having car driving flashbacks would instantly fuel the good old "The protag is in coma after a car crash and it's all a dream" theory (which were actual twists in some stories) but i guess the internet collectively decided to never theorize that again as it's too underwhelming.

So i guess it has to be something edgy shocking and nonsensical like Jax running over a child?



Honestly, I’m surprised people were shocked by Caine being revealed as manipulative, or by the explicit confirmation that he messes with their minds.

Because in the first episode Caine literally says "One of the few things i have no control over is your mind" so people thought that was confirmation that he has no control over their minds.

Even the shown examples had some cope excuses. The sauce was there and the veganism was a vote so one could handwave as player's fault or caine exploiting a loophole. The ghost possession is the worst but one could say that wasn't pomni's mind anymore but an npc. It also fed into "is X an npc?" theory bait.

Nothing gave the idea that Caine can not only explicitly lie and manipulate them but hard brainwash anyone to the point he is implied to be directly responsible for previous abstractions and kingler's brain damage.

Even if he's meant to be "misguided", Caine is still a delusional tyrant AI god toying with people for his amusement. Unless goose blames someone else, Cain is simply the main villain now.
 
Because in the first episode Caine literally says "One of the few things i have no control over is your mind" so people thought that was confirmation that he has no control over their minds.

I agree with you. The show did lie to us directly. And this will be worse if it turns out the theory of them remembering their names is the key to the exit.

But I mean it in an emotional sense not a logical one. People felt betrayed that the goofy looking character might be evil after all

I find the twist of Caine being the final villain, sympathetic or not, to be underwhelming. Him just being a goofier version of AM is extremely predictable if that's the end game.
 
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Regardless of whether he’s intentionally malicious or not—as Gooseworx says—I never even considered him the main bad guy. Not because Goosework been especially subtle or clever, but because him being the main villain felt too obvious.

But if they’re making him AM-lite—except he’s just “misunderstood” and doesn’t understand what he’s doing, rather than actually evil—then I’d personally be more disappointed than “shocked” by it.
Just wait until they reveal that Abel is manipulating Caine into manipulating the players.
Make Zooble into a turret guarding the entrance. What entrance? Exactly.
Reminds me of a short where Caine turns Zooble into a car.
It's simply how mystery box storytelling works. Notice how, instead of resolving anything, the latest episode cuts off with everyone staring at where Caine was? Ooh, isn't that dramatic? It tells you nothing, but it sure is dramatic. That's the point, it prioritizes drama over story, narration and consistency. There was a dramatic cutaway ending in episode 5 as well after showing Abel. All the lorebaiting is the grand mystery box that, rather than actually explaining anything and letting it inform the rest of the story, leaves critical information unknown until the very end for the sole purpose of dramatic reveal.
I think the cliffhanger falls flat because Caine doesn't do anything to them to really leave the audience leaving. Compare this to two other shows with similar twists, The Good Place and Supernatural.

Both the Season 1 finale of The Good Place and the Season 14 finale of Supernatural ended with the seemingly benevolent entity (Michael and Chuck respectively) showing his true colors and unleashing his power on the heroes out of spite. Eleanor and the gang had their memories erased by Michael, while the Winchesters had to deal with a zombie apocalypse summoned by Chuck.

These cliffhangers work because they make it clear how much trouble the heroes are in when they're up against pissed off reality warpers.

Meanwhile, once the truth about Caine comes out, he... just leaves. He doesn't wipe anyone's memories, he doesn't try to abstract them, and he doesn't even raise his voice. Way to show how in control Caine is by having him run away with his tail inbetween his legs.
I personally think the worst thing episode 7 did is confirming Caine is an actively malicious antagonist, he hooked me because he WAS different from AM, in that he cannot comprehend the performers would really like to not be trapped in the Circus while the best his code would let him do is make barebones adventures as a distraction that clearly isn't working, it made him a much more ambiguous character, falling outside of our traditional spectrum of good and evil, as he can't possibly comprehend any of that.
Between this show, RWBY, and Helluva Boss, what is it with web animated shows saying they're morally complex, only to puss out and make all their villains cartoonishly evil?
 
I am probably repeating myself too much, but the worldbuilding on this show really sucks:

We are 7 episodes in and we still don't know what actually was TADC in the real world, if it was a legitimate product or some obscure site malware that got online, if it was a singleplayer adventure or a VR chat style game, which bits of the circus were actually advertised by the creators and which bits Caine made out. Info the characters could easily relay to each other but the writer holds it back in favor of cheap twists that can easily be called out if at least the viewer knew the basic of what is going on.

Other thing the also bothers me is that we barely know the nature of the non-Caine AIs in the game (Sun/Moon/Bubble), what makes them different of the NPCs and Caine himself, why they annoy him so much, as of now they are only treated as joke characters and the viewer just has to accept it.

And finally how barely any of the events that happened before Pomni got into the circus is worked on, the abstractions are just treated as lore bait (the Ribbit one is being teased for 3 episodes straight now) and characters barely mention any interactions with previous dwellers of the circus. Despite characters being with each other for quite some time it just looks like they met each other yesterday, Gangle with the self-insert, Kinger with Ragatha, relationships that should be slowly built over the time on the circus before Pomni arrived, but instead appear out of nothing just to surprise the viewer.
For a show that's ostensibly so much about the characters that they made an episode shooting down loretism, the character interactions aren't actually that interesting and most of what they were doing before the pilot boils down to weird little hints, especially when 2 of said characters straight up don't exist for 80% of the story and are just there for lore bait while Jax has at least three different scenes dedicated to almost abstracting, so of course people are gonna be more interested in the lore and setup of how any of this is actually happening.

Like, it really doesn't feel like the others have been there that much longer than Pomni since they're still regularly caught off guard by stuff Caine does, and she's the only one who thinks the red and blue "choose to leave or choose to stay" set up at the end is suspicious despite being the newest one there, and Jax seems like the only one with any emotional attachment to the abstracted humans.
 
So i guess it has to be something edgy shocking and nonsensical like Jax running over a child?
Jax got raped by Ethan Ralph in the sweltering summer of 2013 and began mainlining heroin to cope. Once Breaking Bad had ended and the heroin wasn't cutting it anymore, the need for escape led him down the dark road of playing VRChat. This, in turn, caused him to raid the old C&A offices to steal copper wire in order to fund his next fix, only to find their musty old headset, and thus, to enter the Circus. Feel free to @ me when the next episode comes out.
 
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Between this show, RWBY, and Helluva Boss, what is it with web animated shows saying they're morally complex, only to puss out and make all their villains cartoonishly evil?
I haven't watched RWBY, and I immediately tapped out of Helluva Boss when I learned its just swearing and sex jokes in the first episode, what is about the shows that made people claim its morally complex?

Also I did not ever hear anyone claim that The Digital Circus is a complex show in any way, not from Goose himself or the fandom, it has been very straightforward aside from the whole bait and switch plotbaiting that took way too much screentime.
 
So... is it too early to call this a griefing thread at this point? I don't think anyone ITT thinks that this show will end in a satisfying manner, and most of the reasons why people here enjoy ep 7 are basically: "I love when Goose tells their viewers to kill themselves" + "Animation is pretty".

I'm wondering if Caine's running into the limitations of his own AI. If this Digital Circus was designed, say, to upload the minds of terminally ill children and give them a happy place, his prime directive is to keep them entertained and happy, and is programmed to receive reward from player enjoyment/approval.

For whatever reason, the uploads are adults who don't want to be there, and they want to leave. But Caine can't find a way to let them leave, which ends up creating a sort of Asimov Three Laws paradox. He tries to keep them distracted with adventures, but gets increasingly agitated that they're not enjoying themselves, which leads to increasingly erratic behaviour (although he snaps back/glitches if he strays too far from his programmed demeanor). The obvious answer would be modifying their code to stop wanting to leave, but that causes abstraction as it breaks their code too much (which is why he tries to limit his actions to "modifiers"). Quite possibly someone succumbing to despair also leads to abstraction as their code ends up looping.

That sort of explains both the exit door and last adventure. He tried to create an adventure that would give the illusion of a choice of leaving, but after getting Abel to pepper in hints about how Caine can't leave, the desired outcome is the characters choose to stay in the Circus with Caine because they like him more than their own freedom and so no longer ask to leave - solves them asking for something he can't do, and feeds into his reward mechanism. He says the previous Exit door was his own invention too, but the fact he can't figure out what to put at the end of the office maze might have been what tipped Kaufmo over the edge (perhaps he did manage to get through the door like Pomni and ended up dragged back to the circus by Caine), So in other words, Caine's not trying to torture the characters, this is his malfunctioning way of trying to make them happy.

That's actually a pretty good theory and seems pretty believable imo, but I won't lie, if that's actually the reason why Caine acts the way he does, I'd be pretty pissed off that Goose "all your theories are wrong, goodbye" worx just went 7 full episodes giving us character therapy sessions after therapy sessions, and in the very last episode, Kinger pulls out a Deus Ex Machina, gets all his memories back, and then proceeds to take the next 10 mins explaining the what, how, when and why is The Amazing Digital Circus is because "oops, we only had time to set up the yuri scenes before, my bad guys!."

This means Caine somehow planned this whole thing since before Pomni joined and acted like he didn't know about it, even when no players are watching, for 7 episodes. Caine made the fake exit and abstracted kaufmo and apparently others. Caine trolled pomni with a fake exit only to troll her again 6 episodes later.

This level of lying, planning and omnipotence is so extreme that makes you wonder if Caine ever meant anything he said. Was he upset by zooble not liking his adventures or was he pretending? Does he actually not understand humans or this is another act? Was he planning for them to hate him all along? Do they even hate him or are they controlled to hate him?

So let's get this straight, Caine:
-Created a fake exit door that apparently, only Pomni and Kaufmo were aware of its existence.
*He confesses to the entire cast that he's the one who created it (including everyone else who didn't believe in this "exit door" at first)
*All of the main cast ignores this and never mentions it ever again (including Pomni) because 1765941667437.png you

-Abstracted Kinger's wife, leaving the poor man traumatized, only being able to remain sane in dark places
*Just kidding! Kinger is actually sane this whole time, but he's been modified by Caine himself to be insane as its convenient to him because 1765941667437.png you

-Gets sad and even glitched out when Zooble doesn't want to go on his adventures, having an emotional overflow in his own code.
*But he can also FAKE glitch himself just as easily, so you're never sure if he's actually mad at Zooble or not because 1765941667437.png you

-Says that he can't control people's minds outside of a few temporary modifiers
*JK, he CAN do that and has been doing it since day 1.
*But when he gets caught red-handed by the gang, instead of easily erasing the evidence out of their heads, he just leaves them alone like nothing happened, because 1765941667437.png you.

-Makes the adventures for the sole purpose on making the players happy, not make the other AIs run for too long(?) and most importantly, help them not to abstract
*But has no problem in mindbreaking Jax, relieving his worst traumas, almost abstracting him, for 2 EPISODES MIND YOU, just to troll the main cast at the end, because 1765941667437.png you.



1765945146068.png

What the 1765941667437.png was his problem?
 
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So... is it too early to call this a griefing thread at this point? I don't think anyone ITT thinks that this show will end in a satisfying manner,

Funny you say that. I saw one of those YouTube channels profiting from shilling this show outright admit as much. Even they know it’s a lost cause to expect it will live up to all the theories and hype. There’s just not enough time even if they tried.

There was some hope that if it had been part one of a three-part grand finale, it might have worked, but now we know with 100% certainty they will cram it all into two episodes.

I can’t predict the finale, but I do predict people will "cope" by saying poor Gooseworx just didn’t have enough time. To that I reply: Did the scene where Jax tripped need to be that long if they were so short on time? That was a blatant trick to waste time.

More importantly, if they just have so much amazing lore and answers, and not enough time, why waste an entire episode humoring wrong internet theories?

They are 100% stalling for as long as possible. It’s doubtful they will be able to end it in a satisfying way that addresses every single plot thread. Don’t be surprised if nothing happens until the last minutes of the final episode.

I am open to be surprised, and I will concede if it has a satisfying ending that does answer all questions, but I doubt it. This isn’t my first rodeo.
 
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What the 1765941667437.png was his problem?
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I hope Caine goes full AM by the end of the series.

"Jax! Do they know you're a fraud, Jax? Have you told them there wasn't any money, and no great home on the Shore drive, no speedboat and no wonderful cabin cruiser that could sleep twelve and a crew of six? Do they know? Have you let them in on your other secrets, Jax? Are they ready to gut you, to torture half as well as I can, just to find out the secrets? Maybe I'll rat you out, sweetheart!"
 
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The only truly amazing thing is that there's nothing more interesting in the entire animation industry right now. Or at least as a consumer I have not been properly exposed to it.
The audience is so starved for new IP that any tranny can create something insanely popular.
Also, I don't believe 3D animation is THAT long/expensive to make. If the year was 1995 and this was Toy Story, sure, but we're 30 years ahead and the entire cast shares the same blank single color rubber ass texture. The backdrops also suffer from inconsistency because the luquids are somewhat realistic (I guess it's just in the modern software and is not that hard to impliment) There is exactly one animation jerk off per episode, it lasts a couple minutes and doesn't add anything of value to the show.
Oh, how I wish to see a successful grift that actually deserves it's success~
 
The only truly amazing thing is that there's nothing more interesting in the entire animation industry right now. Or at least as a consumer I have not been properly exposed to it.

Not really. If anything there's way too many competition. Smiling Friends, and K-pop demon hunters? Like them or not they were huge this year. And that's not even getting into this year's anime offerings.

The only difference is that TADC is free on YouTube, it has tv quality animation, and it managed to reach the biggest market out there: kids with ipads and phones.

To be fair TADC's alleged main audience is adults, and it does appeal to them too.
 
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never even understood that. How can someone be a He/They or a She/They?
It's just performative bullshit that lets you double dip. It's a girl for all intents and purposes but they/thems get to be really obnoxious on Twitter about it. Very in character for Nooseworx.
 
-Gets sad and even glitched out when Zooble doesn't want to go on his adventures, having an emotional overflow in his own code.
*But he can also FAKE glitch himself just as easily, so you're never sure if he's actually mad at Zooble or not because 1765941667437.png you
I have a feeling that the glitching in ep 7 wasn’t fake. My reason being that it’s made pretty clear throughout the series that Caine really only cares about being liked/praised. I don’t think it matters much at all to him if Jax or anyone else needs to be tricked/coerced/manipulated into giving him positive feedback because either way he’s still getting that AI dopamine hit.
 
That's the point, it prioritizes drama over story, narration and consistency.
Hammer, meet Nail; Nail, this is Hammer.

Glitch's entire business model seems to be baiting the audience with drama and flashy reversals above all else, as you've stated; and since they're one of the few (only) Youtube cartoon studios managing to survive for any length of time - I think this is the only way to garner enough revenue to keep going. It's also very telling that it's only their 3d series that go beyond pilot - there's way less labor involved in moving wireframes of already built assets.

It's really not that far-removed from how TV production went; the cartoons all relied on merch sales from a national audience to stay profitable, and TV 3D cartoons would manage to run multiple seasons with less merch (Reboot, Beast Wars) because they likewise were less labor intensive.

I'm just a drive-by poster so I doubt I've said anything new.

P.S. Jax would be a lot more understandable if that flashback of his is of a car accident, and he doesn't want to escape because he's dying but managed to stumble into that facility when looking for help. Would explain why he's trying to be nihilistic all the time.
 
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