Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[RandomTwitterGuy]

I jumped on the PF2 bandwagon when it first came out.

By the third book I was sick of it. It's been dumbed down to the point you might as well play another game.

Pathfinder 2 can run out of the box, but big deal, so can the Palladium system or Rifts. hell, Gamma World 3E or 1E can be run out of the box. Hell, people play the hell out of Rifts, enough that Palladium games is till going without being bought out by a bigger company. If running out the box and people playing it is the standard, then 5E is the greatest game in the world.

Pathfinder 2E though sucks. It's an oversimplified set of bullshit that I frankly wouldn't insult my players with.

Dumbed down compared to what??

To Pathfinder?

4e being branded Dungeons & Dragons: Tactics would have been great.

Hell, with how WotC is scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas recently, I would not be surprised if they reissued 4e's mechanics in a side game. There was a lot of effort and perfectly usable material there that got dumped as soon as 5e was announced.

Well 5E will be interesting. It has some massive issues that can not be fixed, but there is a large group of rules light fans they have to cater to and they are never big on changes. Honestly the 5E groups i see is the new players and the "Acting" table.

 

[ZMOT]

Oh, I won't tell anyone not to enjoy it. Hell, I loved Bunnies & Burrows even though that was a dumbass game. Hell, I love Rifts, and that game is absolutely gonzo.

And yeah, you couldn't talk about 4E's obvious problems without the hysterics on both sides drowning it out. It's why I kind of largely walked away from the online TTRPG scene.

Hell, he likes PF2, I didn't like it. I feel it's a bad game, but he doesn't.

The nice thing is, we can disagree without moderators banning us both with an accusation of racism.

it's one of the reasons why I hardly mention pf2 or dnd4 anymore (not just here, in general), either due to it's meme status or being the new punching bag on the block, and 5e has too many mainstream "nerd" fanbois that come out of the woodwork taking any criticism personally.

I like to think there are pros and cons in every system, none is perfect nor a perfect fit for every group - which doesn't necessarily makes it bad. heck I read some people even made fatal work (and apparently even enjoyed it), so there's that. screaming matches about who got the bigger version is just tiring at some point.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

To move things into (hopefully) less contentious waters...
I'm gearing up to run Legend of the Five Rings with some old friends of mine. The new edition, specifically. Anyone have any good stories or hints about it?
I'm pretty familiar with the culture of Sengoku-era Japan and have read 5E's lorebooks, for reference.

I'm out of date on L5R, 4th edition was the last time I was picking up any books and I did not get all of those.

That said one thing remains pretty universal, I'd say find out how far in your players want to go in on the setting. If you're really minded to a single social gathering can contain more opportunities for damage to the characters than an entire trap filled dungeon and if your players aren't on board for that it can be easy to accidentally set them up for pain. Long as you know what tone they want from the game it's easy to focus on what matters for that rather than every little detail.

Other stuff I am less sure if 5th Ed changed;
Combat can be lethal. Characters tend to be easy to hit and murder and exploding dice add an extra level of randomness. The average peasant isn't going to be much of a threat but if a PC charges a mob of reasonably trained archers they're probably going to end up dead.
Money should probably be hand waved. The reason I say that is that while there is an economy, starting funds etc. there's very little about how to earn more cash in game for the average PC and lots of things that might result in outgoings (meals, supplies, entertainment, gifts). Some PCs might be landed or are merchants but they're not the majority and money can seem to be constantly flowing out but never in.
Depending on their role it might be worthwhile to give the PCs staff. A lot of samurai in setting will tend to have a small servant entourage to handle matters for them, particularly those considered to be unseemly for them to be dealing with. While this applies to different groups in different ways if they're liable to be doing some normal day to day stuff along with their more PC duties it doesn't hurt to have a servant or two.

Ultimately though tone is what you're after. You planning a particular kind of game (PCs as magistrates, single clan focused, group of samurai assigned to a provincial governor's court?).

 

[Rapier Ape]

I agree. Tatyana was the only one for him so I find it odd for him to have other wives/husbands.

That was kind of the whole point for Strahd, which is why this behavior is so strange.

But then, canon is just one more thing for woke activism to wipe their asses with.

For what it's worth if you look into the old novels (which were generally considered canon at that time) There's one chapter where after -reasons- one of the village girls ends up at the front door of Castle Ravenloft seeking an immediate audience with him. Strahd had been a castle neet for a decade or 3. Strahd ends up throwing the D to her really good and there's a few lines about how he hadn't sated his mortal carnal desires in some time.
He doesn't kill her. Doesn't turn her into a vampire. Just knocks the bottom out of it and lets her go. Even goes about it in a non fedora olde' gentleman way.
Tatyana when you look at the big picture is more or less the Realm's ultimate bait that inevitably unravels Strahd's progress entirely.
Now she is in fact his Oneitis.
Strahd is aware enough of his Realm's influence that he did in fact fuck up and it IS used against him.
But their encounters are so few and far between in the Dread Realms that she slips to the back part of his brain. I mean he still has his lands to run. Magic to look into and study. Try to figure out how to GTFO where he is. Plus plot against and counter plots against himself from the other Dark Lords.
But this is just how I've interpreted things from source materials from old TRS Basic/1E era material up until 3.5E. Old Grognard here.
As far as the new "canon" material goes I have no idea. I've refused to even look into anything 4E aside from a 10 minute glance at the 5E Players Guide and MM to more or less get a quick overlook into how the stat mechanics looked on paper out of curiosity.
So I can't speak for any changes that the woke crowd has done to it.
In short back in the day........... Strahd layed some pipe to quite a few other people post Tatyana......because there have been a few Tatyanas......or has there been? Was it the realm just screwing with him?

 

[Mr. Manchester]

4e being branded Dungeons & Dragons: Tactics would have been great.

Hell, with how WotC is scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas recently, I would not be surprised if they reissued 4e's mechanics in a side game. There was a lot of effort and perfectly usable material there that got dumped as soon as 5e was announced.

I think they could still pull something like that off too. I could see a 5e adaptation with some principles from 4e and 3.5 that work with a battle map and provide a more tactical experience. The did the same thing with 3rd toward the end of it's production cycle, I forget what the product was called but I think it was an avenue to sell minis. I think 5e Tactics or Advanced 5e would be something I think I would be interested in looking at. Could toss in some player options to sell the shit, my first thought would be the Warlord class.

 

[Fictional Character]

Dark Powers of Ravenloft reincarnating Tatyana as a man to further torture 100% straight Strahd would be something I can see happening.

 

[Tour of Italy]

I like to poke my head in this thread every once in a while and honestly, if I didn’t see a slapfight about editions and rules every once in a while, I wouldn’t consider it a healthy tabletop thread.

Keep up the good work is all I’m saying.

 

[Adamska]

I think they could still pull something like that off too. I could see a 5e adaptation with some principles from 4e and 3.5 that work with a battle map and provide a more tactical experience. The did the same thing with 3rd toward the end of it's production cycle, I forget what the product was called but I think it was an avenue to sell minis. I think 5e Tactics or Advanced 5e would be something I think I would be interested in looking at. Could toss in some player options to sell the shit, my first thought would be the Warlord class.

Oh the Minis Handbook? That was actually really early in 3.5's development rather than late. Strange, I know, but that's the case.

Speaking of that book, let me shill you this:

I finally fucking edited the analysis of the classes they offer. Seriously, I don't get why people never give Warmage a try given how often Evokers are made. Also holy shit there's a lot of bad PrCs in this book.

Also we do streaming usually on Sundays for those wondering.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

I'm out of date on L5R, 4th edition was the last time I was picking up any books and I did not get all of those.

That said one thing remains pretty universal, I'd say find out how far in your players want to go in on the setting. If you're really minded to a single social gathering can contain more opportunities for damage to the characters than an entire trap filled dungeon and if your players aren't on board for that it can be easy to accidentally set them up for pain. Long as you know what tone they want from the game it's easy to focus on what matters for that rather than every little detail.

Other stuff I am less sure if 5th Ed changed;
Combat can be lethal. Characters tend to be easy to hit and murder and exploding dice add an extra level of randomness. The average peasant isn't going to be much of a threat but if a PC charges a mob of reasonably trained archers they're probably going to end up dead.
Money should probably be hand waved. The reason I say that is that while there is an economy, starting funds etc. there's very little about how to earn more cash in game for the average PC and lots of things that might result in outgoings (meals, supplies, entertainment, gifts). Some PCs might be landed or are merchants but they're not the majority and money can seem to be constantly flowing out but never in.
Depending on their role it might be worthwhile to give the PCs staff. A lot of samurai in setting will tend to have a small servant entourage to handle matters for them, particularly those considered to be unseemly for them to be dealing with. While this applies to different groups in different ways if they're liable to be doing some normal day to day stuff along with their more PC duties it doesn't hurt to have a servant or two.

Ultimately though tone is what you're after. You planning a particular kind of game (PCs as magistrates, single clan focused, group of samurai assigned to a provincial governor's court?).

1. One potential player is a lunatic sinophile/japanophile who might unironically be excited about this game if I mention there's a Bureaucrat class in it and a definite player's probably going to make his character's ninjo becoming a daimyo's hokan, so I have a decent contingent who want to seriously engage with Rokugan.
2. I've made it clear to the group "rushing in blindly gets you dead, this isn't Pathfinder, doorkicking is a bad idea".
3. I've got the money handled- most of this game's finance problems come from the fact that the value of the zeni/mon and bu are grossly inflated compared to the koban/koku coin (IRL the exchange rate wasn't 50 mon= 5 bu = 1 koban, but closer to 4000 = 16 = 1 - which realistically eliminates the need to sweat very much over food intake and the like). I do definitely get what you're talking about.
4. Game does this with a lot of the schools anyways, but good note.
5. My plan is contingent on FFG spitting out Fields of Battle before the group starts (we're still on another campaign RN)- planning on having the PCs ultimately end up being involved in a civil war.

 

[Godzilla1984]

Fun Fact:
The Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures game from 3.5 was developed by the same guys who developed Heroscape.
They more or less slapped on relevant D&D rules onto Heroscape.
Later on they did the same to Magic: The Gathering – Arena of the Planeswalkers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroscape

 

[Dante Alighieri]

Heroscape was decently fun, like baby's first wargame.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

1. One potential player is a lunatic sinophile/japanophile who might unironically be excited about this game if I mention there's a Bureaucrat class in it and a definite player's probably going to make his character's ninjo becoming a daimyo's hokan, so I have a decent contingent who want to seriously engage with Rokugan.
2. I've made it clear to the group "rushing in blindly gets you dead, this isn't Pathfinder, doorkicking is a bad idea".
3. I've got the money handled- most of this game's finance problems come from the fact that the value of the zeni/mon and bu are grossly inflated compared to the koban/koku coin (IRL the exchange rate wasn't 50 mon= 5 bu = 1 koban, but closer to 4000 = 16 = 1 - which realistically eliminates the need to sweat very much over food intake and the like). I do definitely get what you're talking about.
4. Game does this with a lot of the schools anyways, but good note.
5. My plan is contingent on FFG spitting out Fields of Battle before the group starts (we're still on another campaign RN)- planning on having the PCs ultimately end up being involved in a civil war.

1. Ah, that's one new concept I now am aware of at least. Yeah knowing their existing objectives should make it easier.
2. As I say no clue how harsh this version is. But prior ones largely did embrace the easier method of making combat lethal by keeping health low.
3. Sounds good. It's a stupidly minor thing but it's easy to overlook too.
4. I thought it might get addressed one of these days within the schools themselves. Handy to know.
5. Masters of War from 3rd edition may help fill in some planning gaps while waiting for Fields of Battle depending on how much has changed in terms of background. I'd wager there's a 4th Ed book that could provide similar military stuff but as noted not up to date.

Odd question, have they again near as damn copied the previous edition and slapped the new cover on for Emerald Empire?

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

1. Ah, that's one new concept I now am aware of at least. Yeah knowing their existing objectives should make it easier.
2. As I say no clue how harsh this version is. But prior ones largely did embrace the easier method of making combat lethal by keeping health low.
3. Sounds good. It's a stupidly minor thing but it's easy to overlook too.
4. I thought it might get addressed one of these days within the schools themselves. Handy to know.
5. Masters of War from 3rd edition may help fill in some planning gaps while waiting for Fields of Battle depending on how much has changed in terms of background. I'd wager there's a 4th Ed book that could provide similar military stuff but as noted not up to date.

Odd question, have they again near as damn copied the previous edition and slapped the new cover on for Emerald Empire?

Nope, rolled back pretty much the setting- Mantis's Voltron Clan is back to being a bunch of minor clans again, Day of Thunder 2: Togashi Boogaloo didn't happen, everything from LBS has been yeeted into the void due to rights issues (TL;DR FFG owns L5R but AEG's corpse clings to LBS), and none of that insane stuff about the Moon and Sun getting replaced twice and Kali Maa eating the Ivory Kingdoms is canon anymore.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Nope, rolled back pretty much the setting- Mantis's Voltron Clan is back to being a bunch of minor clans again, Day of Thunder 2: Togashi Boogaloo didn't happen, everything from LBS has been yeeted into the void due to rights issues (TL;DR FFG owns L5R but AEG's corpse clings to LBS), and none of that insane stuff about the Moon and Sun getting replaced twice and Kali Maa eating the Ivory Kingdoms is canon anymore.

That'll have been a treat. They produce an awful and over convoluted plot reason for that happening or just go with the "ask and you'll be heading into the void too"?

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

Heroscape was decently fun, like baby's first wargame.

The terrain is also absolutely perfect for Battletech games.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

That'll have been a treat. They produce an awful and over convoluted plot reason for that happening or just go with the "ask and you'll be heading into the void too"?

Eh, it was more or less a setting revert to some point before the Civil War and Second Day of Thunder "arcs" in the TCG, so they just ignore it. They also got rid of some of the most stupid elements, like half of the Unicorn clan secretly being Kholat.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

Dark Powers of Ravenloft reincarnating Tatyana as a man to further torture 100% straight Strahd would be something I can see happening.

I'm pretty sure I can see Strahd just slitting his fucking throat and waiting for the next reincarnation, going "I ain't fucking gay."

 

[Adamska]

I'm pretty sure I can see Strahd just slitting his fucking throat and waiting for the next reincarnation, going "I ain't fucking gay."

That would just mean he'd have a lot of dead selves to dispose of, since I can see the Dark Powers keeping that shitpost on purpose given the pain it clearly causes him.

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

I'm out of date on L5R, 4th edition was the last time I was picking up any books and I did not get all of those.

That said one thing remains pretty universal, I'd say find out how far in your players want to go in on the setting. If you're really minded to a single social gathering can contain more opportunities for damage to the characters than an entire trap filled dungeon and if your players aren't on board for that it can be easy to accidentally set them up for pain. Long as you know what tone they want from the game it's easy to focus on what matters for that rather than every little detail.

Other stuff I am less sure if 5th Ed changed;
Combat can be lethal. Characters tend to be easy to hit and murder and exploding dice add an extra level of randomness. The average peasant isn't going to be much of a threat but if a PC charges a mob of reasonably trained archers they're probably going to end up dead.
Money should probably be hand waved. The reason I say that is that while there is an economy, starting funds etc. there's very little about how to earn more cash in game for the average PC and lots of things that might result in outgoings (meals, supplies, entertainment, gifts). Some PCs might be landed or are merchants but they're not the majority and money can seem to be constantly flowing out but never in.
Depending on their role it might be worthwhile to give the PCs staff. A lot of samurai in setting will tend to have a small servant entourage to handle matters for them, particularly those considered to be unseemly for them to be dealing with. While this applies to different groups in different ways if they're liable to be doing some normal day to day stuff along with their more PC duties it doesn't hurt to have a servant or two.

Ultimately though tone is what you're after. You planning a particular kind of game (PCs as magistrates, single clan focused, group of samurai assigned to a provincial governor's court?).

I want to try the new edition but my group isn't too keen on it. Doesn't seem like you'll have just that one clan member doing all the combat and stealing the spotlight from the rest of the PC's which is always good. Other editions I found were always better for solo players when you couldn't get the group together.

 

[40 Year Old Boomer]

My group's current DM has finally started to apply tactics to his encounters and the latest session was great. Two character deaths in the final battle and he had the balls to geek the cleric first. Best session we've had in a while because there's few things as satisfying to me as winning an encounter by the skin of your teeth.