Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[Hummingbird]

I think they wanted to push it more towards just the common understanding of Dracula lore while adding in their own gay agenda.

Granted Strahd is based on Dracula, but he's still his own character (though it would be amusing to see how he'd react to Tatyana's new incarnation being a boy). To tell you the truth, I'm surprised they added gayness to the evil character.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

To move things into (hopefully) less contentious waters...
I'm gearing up to run Legend of the Five Rings with some old friends of mine. The new edition, specifically. Anyone have any good stories or hints about it?
I'm pretty familiar with the culture of Sengoku-era Japan and have read 5E's lorebooks, for reference.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Probably breaking from the pack here a bit, but I actually do really like Pathfinder 2e, though the adventure paths are of questionable quality. For example, the second book of Age of Ashes as a side plot about getting 2 fags to hook up.

I thought their adventure path stuff was pretty good so far. Though I've not played them (the lack of VTT maps is a major downside), but the circus themed Extinction Curse, and their recent Abomination Vault seem good. If we include Starfinder, they recently started putting out a space trucker themed campaign (complete with rules for managing your trucking business). They actually have flavour and a theme to them, instead of generic "save the world" quests or updates of 40 year old content.

- Action Economy Changes: Characters get 3 actions that they can spend as they please.

100% this is the thing I like about the game. No more normal action, move action, swift action, bonus action, full attack bullshit.
It also clears up abilities like Haste and Slow nicely.

A few other things

• Character creation being based on sets of feats. Any trained skill adds your level to the roll so you can be good at something as long as you have at least some training in it. This also means level ups are organic, instead of builds being planned from level 1 and each level up is putting another point into the same skills you picked at first level.
• A minor change, but having starting health be your racial health + class health makes level 1s less squishy.
• No rolling for stats and no complex point buy. You make a series of choices at character creation, and that's it. There's a lot of options, but each choice is simple like "which of these 5 racial feats do you want?" "which 2 skills do you want to boost?" etc.

No see, the idea is that yes, there's magic. It's just mysterious and fucky and not meant for mortal men. I definitely want wizards and weird shit but I just don't want the players to have it right away. Probably not super clear in the first post.

One YouTuber I watch (Dungeon Musings) is a fan of Swords and Sorcerery of Hyperboria. It's basically Conan. I've never played it or read it.

Though I guess you can do it with most systems. Pathfinder 2 and D&D 5e wouldn't work because the classes get a lot of magic. Older games might work though. They're notoriously stingy with the magic.

 

[ZMOT]

I noticed her twitter avatar was familiar and after a quick search I remembered
She is the same bitch who was fired from arenanet (guild wars devs) for starting twitter drama and antagonizing players. The case was notorious, at least to me, since normally they don't fire employees over this and even less if they are women.
Surprised she hasn't reconsidered her life choices after being fired once.

try twice (at least). before anusnet picked her up for their woke's gallery, she was working for paizo. imagine being such a woketard even paizo can't handle you. still not sure if that makes her r63 chuck wendig.
she has been neck deep in social justice for years and a borderline lolcow when you go back, and is apparently so toxic no one major is hiring her, at least can't find anything at a glance or her twitter bio which is usually the first place people jerk themselves off for clout.

I thought their adventure path stuff was pretty good so far. Though I've not played them (the lack of VTT maps is a major downside), but the circus themed Extinction Curse, and their recent Abomination Vault seem good. If we include Starfinder, they recently started putting out a space trucker themed campaign (complete with rules for managing your trucking business). They actually have flavour and a theme to them, instead of generic "save the world" quests or updates of 40 year old content.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6shcy?Changes-to-Digital-Map-Assets

they're adding jpgs to all their digital maps, even retroactively (all of them, least that's what they said). this also fixes some of the issues where the official modules for VTTs had better maps than the pdf you pay for specifically or never could buy at all (lot of the older starfinder stuff has no extra maps and just some small ones in the books themselves afaik, which looked like shit when resized).

No rolling for stats and no complex point buy. You make a series of choices at character creation, and that's it.

rules for rolling are still in there, just labeled alternative.

 

[Adamska]

rules for rolling are still in there, just labeled alternative.

Which means fuck you don't use it in their minds. They're going to probably try and remove it too whenever they feel like making a 6e.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Which means fuck you don't use it in their minds. They're going to probably try and remove it too whenever they feel like making a 6e.

And that's a good thing.

So many RPGs, especially d20 games, have vestigial mechanics that are only included because old games have them. Gronards online get angry if they aren't included, but I've never seen anyone use 3d6 in order. I think I once saw someone use 4d6, drop the lowest, and assign points as you like. The 3-18 ability scores aren't used for anything anyway aside from feat minimums, which are usually ignored if you ask your DM nicely.

The only number that matters is the modifier. PF2's monster manual only lists the modifier because the score itself isn't used for anything and the DM needs as little clutter as possible.

You can't even argue backwards compatibility. PF2 and even 5e are so different from AD&D that you can't run old adventures as written and have it work as intended. It's usually simple enough to swap out monsters 1-1 and make up rules for those you can't.

 

[Corn Flakes]

And that's a good thing.

So many RPGs, especially d20 games, have vestigial mechanics that are only included because old games have them. Gronards online get angry if they aren't included, but I've never seen anyone use 3d6 in order. I think I once saw someone use 4d6, drop the lowest, and assign points as you like. The 3-18 ability scores aren't used for anything anyway aside from feat minimums, which are usually ignored if you ask your DM nicely.

The only number that matters is the modifier. PF2's monster manual only lists the modifier because the score itself isn't used for anything and the DM needs as little clutter as possible.

You can't even argue backwards compatibility. PF2 and even 5e are so different from AD&D that you can't run old adventures as written and have it work as intended. It's usually simple enough to swap out monsters 1-1 and make up rules for those you can't.

You're being a bit optimistic there. The problem isn't them removing vestigital mechanics, it's them likely trying to get rid core mechanics (like stats, modifiers or not) altogether the next time they do a new edition.

 

[Adamska]

And that's a good thing.

So many RPGs, especially d20 games, have vestigial mechanics that are only included because old games have them. Gronards online get angry if they aren't included, but I've never seen anyone use 3d6 in order. I think I once saw someone use 4d6, drop the lowest, and assign points as you like. The 3-18 ability scores aren't used for anything anyway aside from feat minimums, which are usually ignored if you ask your DM nicely.

The only number that matters is the modifier. PF2's monster manual only lists the modifier because the score itself isn't used for anything and the DM needs as little clutter as possible.

You can't even argue backwards compatibility. PF2 and even 5e are so different from AD&D that you can't run old adventures as written and have it work as intended. It's usually simple enough to swap out monsters 1-1 and make up rules for those you can't.

Reminder they're doing this not to simplify shit, but because the concept of any biological differences even in different species which would have them (which I also believe will likely go away due to these type of peoples' hatred of non-human races) made them the big mad.

The idea that an orc can easily outbench a halfling makes them lose their shit, despite them being both different fucking species with different niches and biology that suits for the orc to you know have more muscles on their bigger frame if they had the same level of natural strength. This isn't simplifying; this is proselytizing.

Also who mentioned ADnD or the stat rolling system in any of this? I'm a 3.5 idiot and that is not remotely what I was talking about. I was talking about how all races (fantasy races) are now given no mechanical differences.

Besides, smart people do point buy. Most people I play with either do that or 4d6 drop shittiest die and plant and pick.

 

[anti SJW]

For those wondering, this is what @Mexican_Wizard_711 is trying to show off:
View attachment 1997148

For ten bucks you can get literal mincing stereotype doodles that you'd see back in the 1990s.

Made me think of this.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Also who mentioned ADnD or the stat rolling system in any of this?

I did, when talking about why we like PathFinder 2 here.

No rolling for stats and no complex point buy. You make a series of choices at character creation, and that's it.

I see 3-18 ability scores and stat rolling as vestigial mechanics that should have gone away long ago.

Point buy for ability scores doesn't really work and add complexity for little gain since nobody goes for odd numbers. Just have the modifier. Old editions used 3d6 in order (I'm told, never played them myself), and since then there has been fix after fix after fix after fix. At some point they should do away with that system and just have the modifier. The PF2 monster manual seems to be a test to see how that change works, and it works fine.

PathFinder 2, and 5e to a lesser degree, have moved so far away from AD&D that keeping things around from that edition is just holding them back. I see no reason to keep that stuff because any argument people have for keeping it falls flat.

Reminder they're doing this not to simplify shit, but because the concept of any biological differences even in different species which would have them (which I also believe will likely go away due to these type of peoples' hatred of non-human races) made them the big mad.

That's different from game design. Of course, if they get rid of ability score and just have the modifier AND the game is woke garbage, people will put the two together. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

In a way, TTRPG fans are like the generation-x Nintendo fans who re-buy their nes collection every 5 years on e-shop, or comic fans who keep buying the new books despite how much they suck. I get it. Ravenloft is great. Tomb of Horrors is a classic. But surely there's more to RPG than reading the same modules over and over and over with minor changes and updated stat blocks?


I'm going to powerlevel a bit. I've read games that, while technically playable, need changes (sometimes major) in order to play as written. PathFinder 2 is not one of those games. I can, and am, running as written out of the box. I get that Paizo is woke, but they're the only RPG company I can think of that isn't doing retro throwbacks or retreads AND people actually play. The other is Traveller.

 

[Kyria the Great]

Stats and bonuses from different races and classes I view as important as it helps serve to make the differences in specialties and races stand out and spell out what's their bread and butter and when some individual from them stands out from the flock when they go against type.

I'd argue that just because they reprint a module like Temple of Evil, It doesn't mean that someone is afraid of innovation or something different, is that they want to see how the dungeon run is going to differ from edition.

 

[Adamska]

I did, when talking about why we like PathFinder 2 here.

Pretty sure it had nothing to do with why I commented but sure.

I see 3-18 ability scores and stat rolling as vestigial mechanics that should have gone away long ago.

Says the man who never played with the system, strawmans its construction since he never played it, and wants it to change rather than play something more his speed because he can't be fucked to learn it.

Point buy for ability scores doesn't really work and add complexity for little gain since nobody goes for odd numbers. Just have the modifier. Old editions used 3d6 in order (I'm told, never played them myself), and since then there has been fix after fix after fix after fix. At some point they should do away with that system and just have the modifier. The PF2 monster manual seems to be a test to see how that change works, and it works fine.

In this order:

1. Odd stats are actually really useful to have when you build a character, since it's a good spot to put down a characteristic improvement whenever you get it. Whenever you get those you either boost your main useful stat (or stats), or even out an ability. It also makes odd numbered stat boosting items very useful.
2. It really feels like you're only dismissing point buy because it doesn't validate your reasoning and you need to prove why old systems are worse. It's been a thing since the 1990s dude.
3. You ignore that the stat actually has value, at least when it comes to STR values since it covers your carry capacity.
4. You're trying to turn this from what I actually give a shit about, which is the slow removal of fantasy, since I also predict given woke trends you are only going to play different humans by the end of this.

PathFinder 2, and 5e to a lesser degree, have moved so far away from AD&D that keeping things around from that edition is just holding them back. I see no reason to keep that stuff because any argument people have for keeping it falls flat.

Only because you never played any of the earlier editions. Admitted to never playing it. And only came in because of the lowered bar.

I've played both 5e and 3.5e. I've dabbled in ADnD. There are elements I like from all of them and stuff I hate in all of them.

5e for example I despise how they handle skill checks, while I love how the classes are fairly balanced. 3.5e has the flexibility of a billion books and magazines and has the better skill point system, but casters are horseshit. ADnD has some great modules and some weird ideas like potion miscibility, but THAC0 is fucking shit.

I have perspective on this, and I don't think you do.

That's different from game design. Of course, if they get rid of ability score and just have the modifier AND the game is woke garbage, people will put the two together. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I happily will do so because of the fact that buying it is rewarding behavior and ideas I dislike. These people tend to show nothing but contempt for its playerbase and original audience. Why should I reward these people for the contempt they show to their own consumers?

In a way, TTRPG fans are like the generation-x Nintendo fans who re-buy their nes collection every 5 years on e-shop, or comic fans who keep buying the new books despite how much they suck. I get it. Ravenloft is great. Tomb of Horrors is a classic. But surely there's more to RPG than reading the same modules over and over and over with minor changes and updated stat blocks?

Maybe it's so the GM doesn't have to figure out how to convert everything if they want to run the module in a system that everyone knows? I do know that at least in 3.5 they did make their own original adventures too, so I don't get this one.

I'm going to powerlevel a bit. I've read games that, while technically playable, need changes (sometimes major) in order to play as written. PathFinder 2 is not one of those games. I can, and am, running as written out of the box. I get that Paizo is woke, but they're the only RPG company I can think of that isn't doing retro throwbacks or retreads AND people actually play. The other is Traveller.

Now you're just taking the mickey, especially since you've mentioned more than once you've only seriously played a couple TTRPGs and it seems like you've never tried ANYTHING outside of the d20 system besides the latest Traveller game, which IS A RETRO GAME AND REPRINT.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

I'm going to powerlevel a bit. I've read games that, while technically playable, need changes (sometimes major) in order to play as written. PathFinder 2 is not one of those games. I can, and am, running as written out of the box. I get that Paizo is woke, but they're the only RPG company I can think of that isn't doing retro throwbacks or retreads AND people actually play. The other is Traveller.

I jumped on the PF2 bandwagon when it first came out.

By the third book I was sick of it. It's been dumbed down to the point you might as well play another game.

Pathfinder 2 can run out of the box, but big deal, so can the Palladium system or Rifts. hell, Gamma World 3E or 1E can be run out of the box. Hell, people play the hell out of Rifts, enough that Palladium games is till going without being bought out by a bigger company. If running out the box and people playing it is the standard, then 5E is the greatest game in the world.

Pathfinder 2E though sucks. It's an oversimplified set of bullshit that I frankly wouldn't insult my players with.

 

[Judge Dredd]

It really feels like you're only dismissing point buy because it doesn't validate your reasoning and you need to prove why old systems are worse.

I never said the old systems are worse. Maybe there's some doubt in your own mind about the quality of those games.

My point was that new systems are being held back by including mechanics they don't need simply because old games have them.

You ignore that the stat actually has value, at least when it comes to STR values since it covers your carry capacity.

Carry capacity nobody uses because having to count individual pounds of gear is tedious.

In PF2, carry capacity is based on your strength modifier, providing another example of how that mechanic is redundant.

Traveller game, which IS A RETRO GAME AND REPRINT.

I didn't know that. I never heard of it until a year or two ago. Thanks for further proving my point that most of big RPG companies are just retreading old ground.

 

[ZMOT]

Which means fuck you don't use it in their minds. They're going to probably try and remove it too whenever they feel like making a 6e.

and then the GM says "fuck you I run my game how I want" and that's the end of it. it's optional the same way the x-card is optional. the whole argument is pretty much moot.

Pathfinder 2E though sucks. It's an oversimplified set of bullshit that I frankly wouldn't insult my players with.

doesn't mean it's bad. different strokes for different folks. is very similar to the whole dnd4 whining where grog butthurt drowned out all the valid criticism, compared to 3e where the same happened but the internet and social media wasn't mainstream or didn't even exist yet.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

and then the GM says "fuck you I run my game how I want" and that's the end of it. it's optional the same way the x-card is optional. the whole argument is pretty much moot.



doesn't mean it's bad. different strokes for different folks. is very similar to the whole dnd4 whining where grog butthurt drowned out all the valid criticism, compared to 3e where the same happened but the internet and social media wasn't mainstream or didn't even exist yet.

Oh, I won't tell anyone not to enjoy it. Hell, I loved Bunnies & Burrows even though that was a dumbass game. Hell, I love Rifts, and that game is absolutely gonzo.

And yeah, you couldn't talk about 4E's obvious problems without the hysterics on both sides drowning it out. It's why I kind of largely walked away from the online TTRPG scene.

Hell, he likes PF2, I didn't like it. I feel it's a bad game, but he doesn't.

The nice thing is, we can disagree without moderators banning us both with an accusation of racism.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Ironically, for all the screaming about it dumbing down the game, 4e added a ridiculous amount of depth to the combat system when it came to interactions between characters that everybody ignored. 3.5e was all about comboing feats and spells to make an individually powerful character (see: CoDzilla). In 4e the characters were almost always doing something other than dealing damage to other characters, be they allies or foes. Their abilities were built to combo off other characters'. But the spellcasters couldn't just wipe the floor with everybody and the melee characters could say more than just "I attack" when their turn started, so we couldn't have that.

It was a flawed game, but fuck it anyone could discuss its actual flaws past the autistic screeching of "IT'S JUST WORLD OF WARCRAFT".

 

[Dunsparce]

It was a flawed game, but fuck it anyone could discuss its actual flaws past the autistic screeching of "IT'S JUST WORLD OF WARCRAFT".

I don't think 4E is bad per say, I just think it would've been more well-liked if it didn't use the D&D moniker, compared to AD&D, 3.X, and 5E, it resembles the original 1974 game the least, mostly just uses many familiar terms to make it sound D&D-like.

 

[Dante Alighieri]

I don't think 4E is bad per say, I just think it would've been more well-liked if it didn't use the D&D moniker, compared to AD&D, 3.X, and 5E, it resembles the original 1974 game the least, mostly just uses many familiar terms to make it sound D&D-like.

It definitely would've been better if it wasn't a Dungeons and Dragons game, or at least an official edition. If it was "Dungeons and Dragons Tactics" or something similar I think it could've carved a niche. I can envision it as something closer to Warhammer tabletop or Heroscape.

 

[Corn Flakes]

4e being branded Dungeons & Dragons: Tactics would have been great.

Hell, with how WotC is scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas recently, I would not be surprised if they reissued 4e's mechanics in a side game. There was a lot of effort and perfectly usable material there that got dumped as soon as 5e was announced.