Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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Spell components are a great way to limit a powerful spell. You can give the players a very powerful "Summon Ghostly Guardian" spell, but one of the material components is "The still-beating heart of an Orc". Watch combat tactics shift DRASTICALLY.
It is also a fun way to allow for what would otherwise be a later-level spell with discrete utility at a low level. Sure you can cast Invisibility, but this spell requires external mojo to work rather than the higher spell level version, which you can do cold or with cheaper, more common components. Lots of systems with magic have a version of this essentially, casting up, typically by risking your own well-being. 40k RPGs allow for casting over what is safe to give more juice so you can hit harder psy powers, albeit with a higher chance for negative consequences. In Shadowrun, you can cast a spell at a level over your magic stat, but drain is physical instead of strain.
Learning a spell from a hidden master is great adventure by itself, and is a great downtime activity. this one is really fun in "Bloodline" games as spell book get passed from generation to generation.
I would also make it just straight better to the point of using a lower level spell slot/more efficient with the spell casting resource or less tiring or whatever or it has a wholly unique effect that is unknown. Learning to cast a magic missile variant at a that is as powerful as a spell level 3 at spell level 2 would be a game changer and feel really significant. You find an ancient Atlantean spellbook and wonder at how even their basic stuff blows your best out of the water, but learning an Atlanean spell takes a while, needs specialized knowledge etc.
 
I'm currently at a table where a friend started us off with some basic D&D 5th Ed to sucker in new people at our local and has now successfully turned the game into GURPS DFRPG. The spellcasters are still getting adjusted but it went surprisingly well.
I think our second combat (against a giant skeleton in plate armour kidnapping an underground spirit hidden in a geode) was what won the other players over. The druid and thief both tried to use melee attacks only to learn plate armour actually means something now, but instead of being useless, the thief swung up and grappled the skelly's neck for a couple turns while I (Holy Warrior) fractured its sword arm with a maul, and Druid summoned a bear to keep it busy. Spells still need a bit of adjusting; GM has now adjusted the bear summoning so total obedience is now a rare success and general obedience or apathy are more common.

We experimented with GURPS' Ritual Magic module which essentially allows custom spell crafting, but ended up dropping it because it was too much hassle. Would be curious to hear if anyone else has had success with making it work in a fantasy setting.
Nice. I probably would do a pretty low-magic fantasy game if I ever did so, partially because spells are a complicated thing to balance and partially because low-magic is cool.
This is pretty much all of GURPS and why you can never get anyone to play it.
GURPSbin.png
this is me but unironically
 
"Summon Ghostly Guardian" spell, but one of the material components is "The still-beating heart of an Orc". Watch combat tactics shift DRASTICALLY.
Yeah yeah yeah. But lol and lmao. "The spell component is to chuck the still-beating heart of an orc out of its body." I mean that's kind of gross but who would have any moral problem with it?

After all, FUCK ORCS.
 
Yeah yeah yeah. But lol and lmao. "The spell component is to chuck the still-beating heart of an orc out of its body." I mean that's kind of gross but who would have any moral problem with it?

After all, FUCK ORCS.

The moral quandary is that you might want to let some orcs live as future spell components instead of righteously smiting them.
 
Spell components.
Learning spells from some hard to find NPC.
These are easy side-adventure hooks, or can even be entire campaigns by themselves. Same goes for 3.5 and PF with regard to the destruction of some very high caster level items needing to meet specific and ridiculous requirements that could prompt an entire adventure on their own.

Hell, I gave a low level(around 7th) party a section of the book of the damned in pathfinder, locked up in a magical box just to see what they'd do with it. One dumbshit druid(if I remember right) determines the box isn't completely sealed, gaseous forms himself and enters the box where there's no light so he can't see what's inside, but makes contact with the book and gets addicted to it. The Paladin in the group decided to detect magic to find out what it was, couldn't get through the box, decided to look at the idiot who touched the book, magically flashbangs himself with the remnants of the evil aura coming off of the player.

The paladin and someone else eventually get the box open(big mistake), see the book and then try to destroy it(they fail), the other player with him decides that it's the perfect body armor but the paladin points out how the druid is now fucked up and that's a terrible idea. Party meets up and decides that in addition to the quest they were already on, since they let this part of the book basically get loose they need to destroy it while the tainted party member is trying to get his hands back on it(and yes I would have let him cast spells with it), and the party realizes they need to try and get him fixed too rather than leave a crazy evil druid on the loose. And of course to destroy the chapter...
The Book of the Damned must be divided into its varied chapters and each must be destroyed separately within the span of 1 day. The chapter on the daemonic requires the pages be scrubbed of ink by the tears of a good outsider, the pages of the demonic chapter must be fed to a good or lawful outsider, and the diabolic chapter must serve as kindling for a pyre that burns a good or chaotic outsider alive. If all of the chapters are not destroyed at the end of 1 day, any destroyed chapters reappear undamaged in an obscure corner of the multiverse.

Now unfortunately that campaign later fell apart due to scheduling problems, but the party had basically made themselves an entire sidequest to guard and destroy one of the most evil objects in existence, with no prompt from me whatsoever other than "this could be funny, I wonder what'll happen".

No, you don't try and turn finding the spell components for fireball into a quest, you turn some ritual to banish the great evil threatening the land into a quest for components, after the party has learned the ritual from the last sage on a mountain at the edge of the world or whatever. @Ghostse mentioned the still beating heart of an orc or something. Think about Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Magic artifacts(the shankara stones), ritual sacrifice(yanking out people's hearts at a magic altar), evil cult trying to end the world, etc. Take some shit like that into a fantasy setting and there's literally an entire adventure.
 
Yeah yeah yeah. But lol and lmao. "The spell component is to chuck the still-beating heart of an orc out of its body." I mean that's kind of gross but who would have any moral problem with it?

After all, FUCK ORCS.
Me before: Ha ha this will be fun. They've been content to avoid orcs or whittle them down after the mooks are dealt with. This is going to incentivize them to not only prioritize Orcs but they're going to have to close with the orcs and the magic user be close enough to get to the orc the turn he drops.
They're going to need to coordinate and now non-lethal damage is extremely important.
This will really shake up combat.

Me about two hours later: Jesus fucking christ what is wrong with people.


The moral quandary is that you might want to let some orcs live as future spell components instead of righteously smiting them.
and more specifically, the fucked up ways players will ensure fresh orc hearts are available.

Again:
"Its only a dozen orcs I've blinded with the red-hot tip of my 10-foot iron pole and placed in chains. Why the fuck is my alignment dropping? I had to gouge out their eyes, they kept trying to escape or attack me. Actually I'm worried about them communicating if we find any other orcs. I'd better get the warrior to shatter their jaws too."
 
There's a really cool adventure dealing with finding lost magic in the Ancient Magic supplement to Ars Magica 5e. The quest is to rediscover the language spoken by Adam, which contains the correct names for all things as Adam named them and therefore gives bonus to penetrating magic resistance when used to cast spells.

The book provides multiple ways to accomplish this. Two adventure ways and the nerd way. First adventure way is to find the Garden of Eden and try to learn from the angel guarding it against humans trying to get back in. Typical players will likely try to slay the angel as well. Second adventure way is to find the last person alive who speaks the language of Adam: Cain. He is not likely to want to help. Also, World of Darkness players will try to turn him into a vampire. The nerd way is to hit the books, study languages and how they evolved over time and reconstruct the language of Adam without leaving your lab. This is the most time consuming way, but it carries the least risks.

The benefits for learning the language of Adam are either marginal or gamebreaking depending on how inventive the characters are.
 
Give me a couple recommendations for your favorite modules and I'll take a look at them, thanks!
From the BECMI series try out B1 - 9 (In Search of Adventure). It is a rewrite of the 9 B series modules to be a more complete experience and fixes some typos that are in the originals. Its 166 pages of excellent old school materials and even if you don't want to use every adventure in the collection just picking a few, changing names and letting players go is still fun.

From the AD&D 1e series try U1 (The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh), U2 (The Danger at Dunwater) and U3 (The Final Enemy). This is a series that is well regarded for being legitimately good.

Also from AD&D 1e you can A0-A4 (Against the Slave Lords). This module is okay, but isn't my first pick. Still better than most modern modules by a huge amount.

Additionally if you can find an online repository for BECMI or AD&D 1e modules like the trove then you should just get them all. I am only recommending very low level modules here, but plenty of excellent higher level modules are out there and ready to be played by anyone who cares enough to try.

I wish I could offer you more recommendations that are modern but my experience with modern modules has been that they are extremely badly written or just have a very hack-writer feel to them.
 
At one point they suggested something new, a sci fi campaign which sounded kinda fun, then they said it'd be run using D&D 5E and I instantly was deflated.
Man I have been there so many times it's unreal, it's why I got into DMing in the first place. My friends were so married to sticking to Pathfinder no matter what even if there were other games that would do exactly what they wanted, except better, but they just refused to move on to a new game until I started DMing.
I will try to inspect all the rules from my perspective amd try to write how they effected my game, but currently i am in a hospital. And i dislike typing on phone.
Take your time man I really appreciate the response. I also hope you're doing alright and aren't in the hospital for anything super serious.
I think it holds up fine especially if you want to do old school dungeon crawling. You may have difficulty finding takers, though. But the kind of takers, although grognards, will probably be of fairly high quality.
Thankfully for my group we have an agreement that if the DM wants to run something, that's just what we're playing. And since nobody else wants to DM we just end up playing whatever games I feel like running back to back. It's been a few years and nobody's complained so far. AD&D 2e's amount of content looks insanely varied and fun to me so I think the other guys will get into it too.
ACKS II mainly does the following:
  1. Clarifies or expands rules for people too autistic to just make a fucking decision
  2. Fixes the trade mechanics, which were incomplete
  3. Consolidates the best material from the ACKS I expansions
  4. Removes all OGL terminology (like renaming Cleric to Crusader) because WotC had tried to retroactively change it
I looked into it and damn ACKS II is a fuckin' TOME of a book. That's good value for the purchase cost. I found and read a bit of the ACKS I corebook over the last couple days and I like what I'm seeing there too. I think I'll consider sitting down and doing a side-by-side of D&D and ACKs and consider which I'd rather go with, but ACKs is looking pretty solid to me so far.
For me, 5e's biggest crime is it's slow. It's biggest benefit is that it does heroic fantasy really well.
Personally, while it could have been the DMs fault or I just wasn't into it at the time, I just felt a little bored with 5e the handful of times I've played. Just something about how it plays even with leveling up there just wasn't a lot I was too excited for. Granted each time I played was also playing official adventures so perhaps WoTC just sucks ass at writing a fun adventure anymore.
Problem is it doesn't have a real strong grab beyond "draw in the people that like the marketing." It's slightly too crunchy for new players or snappy gameplay and too restrictive and safe to do much interesting for people who get properly familiar with it.
That about sums up my feelings when I've played 5e. Almost like it's too much and too little at the same time.
I wish I could offer you more recommendations that are modern but my experience with modern modules has been that they are extremely badly written or just have a very hack-writer feel to them.
I haven't had much luck in finding really good modern written adventures for almost any game, outside of Call of Cthulhu. Maybe the assumptions about what should or shouldn't be in an adventure have changed, maybe writers in general have gotten worse (this is kinda true across the entire profession it seems, so many sci-fi or fantasy books made now are almost unreadable garbage), or maybe the game publishers just don't think good Adventures are worth investing time and money in. I often go back to adventures from well before my time just to crib ideas just because a lot of them are well written enough use their ideas even outside their intended game or setting. Thanks again for the recommendations I've already found copies of a few of them to read.
 
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Learning a spell from a hidden master is great adventure by itself, and is a great downtime activity. this one is really fun in "Bloodline" games as spell book get passed from generation to generation.
If a warrior can go on a quest to obtain a powerful magical blade, a wizard can go on a quest to obtain a long lost spell.
These are easy side-adventure hooks, or can even be entire campaigns by themselves.
It's a story thing though, and I've never found a way to make it work as a mechanic.

"You level up. Fighter gets second wind. Monk gains extra ki. Wizard, go find a hermit if you want some more spells." doesn't feel like it would work, so I never bothered.

Worlock patron stuff is the same. Great as a quest hook, a pain to manage as some kind of mechanical thing outside of dedicating x amount of downtime to it.

I could see it working, maybe, in a hex crawl/open world type game, but I'd have to explain to players which spells are missing from the PHB (or were spells in the DMG, I forget). Speaking of which, I know hex crawls can work, I just never got them feeling natural. They were always stilted and awkward.

From the AD&D 1e series try U1 (The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh), U2 (The Danger at Dunwater) and U3 (The Final Enemy). This is a series that is well regarded for being legitimately good.
Give me a couple recommendations for your favorite modules and I'll take a look at them, thanks!
I assumed he only wanted ADnD stuff. If we're allowing 1e stuff. N1 Treasure Hunt is top tier. I've run it several times. It could be a one shot, but every time it ran long. The module is poorly written, lots of dense text. But once you have the basic scenario scenario down it's easy to tweak and make up as you go. I also recommend avoiding the awkward "level 0" and "touching a sword makes you a level 1 fighter" type stuff.

The basic gist is that the PC are slaves on a ship. The ship crashes on island. A storm rolls in and the PCs (if they have any sense) take refuge in a trashed temple. Turns out the island is sinking due to the water goddess being pissed at the factions ransacking the place looking for treasure. The PCs then have to escape the island before it sinks.

As mentioned, it's trivial to tweak by changing the two warring factions (orcs v pirates is my favourite). It's also easy to run in any system by using generic stat blocks, and if the PCs go off the rails, the motives of the factions and limited scope make it easy to improv.


I can also recommend Secret of Saltmarsh. I know the 5e version Ghosts of Saltmarsh. It has some bullshit that's easy to filter out. Save or die stuff for doing things like looking at a dead body. The nitty gritty of what exactly is in each cabinet is unnecessary and you can wing it once you have the key pieces.


I wish I could offer you more recommendations that are modern but my experience with modern modules has been that they are extremely badly written or just have a very hack-writer feel to them.
I haven't had much luck in finding really good modern written adventures for almost any game, outside of Call of Cthulhu.
I can help here.

There's a lot of "good" OSR adventures, and I find them much better written than even 5es format. It's one thing the OSR has excelled at is editing and layout.
Caveat, like most classic adventures, the new stuff generally requires work from the DM to fix stupid parts, such as save or die scenes that come out of nowhere, or wokeshit like a wedding with two grooms. I'll keep it to fantasy stuff for now.
Abomination Vault (PF2) (Played to completion)
A mini-mega dungeon and rip off of the popular OSR campaign Barrowmaze. (Barrowmaze looks cool but is so huge I don't know how anyone is expected to realistically complete it.)
It follows on great from the tutorial starter box dungeon, and Troubles in Otari.
Basic idea is there's a village, and a lighthouse just outside town with a dungeon under it. The lighthouse is active, and no one is willing to go into the dungeon to have a look.

Weird The Befell Drigbolton (Played, didn't complete)
A strange asteroid crashes by a village and is leaking a weird ooze that NPCs and wildlife are eating. Didn't finish, pairs well with the next module-


Sly Flourish: Fantastic Adventures (Partially played)
A bunch of generic adventures that all take place around a village of weirdos.

Sly Flourish: Ruins of the Grendleroot (played to completion)
A series of underground adventures set in a giant mountain. Bring spelunking rules if you're into that.

Sly Flourish: Fantastic Lairs (played some, if not most)
A grab bag of small dungeons with a boss fight at the end.

If you can't tell, big fan of sly flourishes work. The settings are super broad and generic, but I see that as a plus as it makes them easy to adapt to different games and series.


Kobold Press: Prepaired 1 and 2 (played some)
Another grab bag of setting neutral adventures.
Most famous for the Geb adventures. One is goblins hiding in an upturned cart (but talked about as an impenetrable fortress), and one where the goblins come into town in a makeshift tank.
Kobold Press stuff is considered great, but I didn't bother as I don't care about their house setting of Midgard, or the Feywild. They have an Al Quidim like setting called Southlands so I should look into that.


Some I've not played, but want to

Gallatinous Cubism (OSR)
Shadow of Tower Silveraxe and Through the Valley of the Manticore are both hex crawls in an isolated location. A highlands and a mesa, each dotted with dungeons and treasure.

Waking of Wilaby Hall (OSR)
A youtuber Questing Beast wrote this one. You're running around a mansion chasing an annoying goose, fighting undead, all while a giant in his pajamas tries to grab the PCs through the windows.

Lost Mine of Phandelver
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Both 5e starter campaigns. Hear they're great mini campaigns. Never read them myself.


And a final mention. Sly Flourish: City of Arches, Kobold Press: The Labyrinth, and DnD Infinite Staircase.
I lumped these together because they're very similar. They all tackle the multiverse as a setting. They're almost like DnD Stargate. I started a campaign based on the City of Arches preview material, but never saw the finished book as it's one of those many recent cases where they don't put it on Drive Thru, and it's not popular enough to get Troved. But the preview is enough for me to set up a campaign anyway.

There's some I'm forgetting, or are not worth the digging to find them, but hope some of these help.
 
It's a story thing though, and I've never found a way to make it work as a mechanic.

"You level up. Fighter gets second wind. Monk gains extra ki. Wizard, go find a hermit if you want some more spells." doesn't feel like it would work, so I never bothered.

Worlock patron stuff is the same. Great as a quest hook, a pain to manage as some kind of mechanical thing outside of dedicating x amount of downtime to it.

I could see it working, maybe, in a hex crawl/open world type game, but I'd have to explain to players which spells are missing from the PHB (or were spells in the DMG, I forget). Speaking of which, I know hex crawls can work, I just never got them feeling natural. They were always stilted and awkward.
I don't get why it needs to be downtime? If anything it's active adventuring. If the fighter needs to go learn something from some sage that sits meditating under a waterfall for weeks at a time, why can't the wizard do the same?

Even for stuff in the book for 8th and 9th level spells "you're not going to just pull this out of your ass to suddenly know Meteor Swarm" "yeah, you've got 100,000gp but no one is selling a single diamond worth 25,000 and I don't give a shit if the text says it plural". As long as this was established at the start of the campaign, it shouldn't be an issue.

Don't want to do it with stuff from the PHB? Fine, create new spells and rituals. Like I said, need a ritual to stop the big bad evil guy from ending the world? Gotta learn how to do it somewhere. Maybe it's perma-death for the bad guy, maybe it drops the shield on his super fortress so the party can get in to fight him, it can be whatever you want it to be. Maybe some lich's phylactery is so powerful it needs to be destroyed in a fire started with the hair of an angel or something(this is why I mentioned the book of the damned and it's destruction requirements). If your players start whining about how you're adding shit that isn't in the PHB then they're fucking retarded.

Just like maybe the fighter at lvl 15 needed to go learn how to crit on an 18-20 from the greatest weapon master in the land. Oh, +3 weapons? They're only forgable at this one place where one of the gods blessed the stone used to create the forge itself to handle the heat required. Yeah, that's not what the PHB says, and again if your players whine about this shit they're fucking stupid. Only a retard actively dodges plot hooks in a TTRPG. Sane people will accept more reasons to go adventuring so long as you're keeping it interesting.
 
Only a retard actively dodges plot hooks in a TTRPG.
And there in lies the problem. They're plot hooks, not mechanics.

Like a cleric or paladin spending time or money doing religious things. Fair enough. If they don't, no spells for the day. Okay, that just means they always allocate x to downtime then don't have to think about it. As a DM, I can have their god call in for some favour, but again, that's a plot hook, not a mechanic.

And it doesn't work in an episodic campaign or a linear campaign. Even a dungeon crawl is tricky. Maybe in an open world, west marshes campaign it can work. But as said, I've never had much success with those.
 
And there in lies the problem. They're plot hooks, not mechanics.

Like a cleric or paladin spending time or money doing religious things. Fair enough. If they don't, no spells for the day. Okay, that just means they always allocate x to downtime then don't have to think about it. As a DM, I can have their god call in for some favour, but again, that's a plot hook, not a mechanic.

And it doesn't work in an episodic campaign or a linear campaign. Even a dungeon crawl is tricky. Maybe in an open world, west marshes campaign it can work. But as said, I've never had much success with those.
I don't understand what you mean by mechanics and not working outside of an open world at this point.

Mechanic: You can't learn this spell/fighting technique/ancient ritual/supreme martial whatever/etc. unless you learn it from someone who knows it, find that someone.
Mechanic: You need to find this spell component, it's not readily available at the local bazaar, find it.

Those right there are a curated quests to find an NPC, or a heist of some sort to find some rare component. Maybe it's a heist from a king's vault, maybe it's a dragon's hoard. None of this requires being a hex crawl or west marshes type campaign either. It's a sidequest like any other you can insert into basically any campaign so long as you account for the time it takes to do this stuff in relation to the main plot of the campaign(so you don't have the players on a time crunch with only 6 weeks to save the world, but then they've got to go on a month long side journey). And you can tune that however you like based on what clues you're willing to give the party to make it quicker to find, or take longer to find.

edit: And if the party does need to go find some treasure hoard for the component for the ritual to bring down the BBEG's fortress shield or whatever, you can do a 2-for-1 and throw in some legendary named dagger for the rogue or whatever into the mix at the same time. It's a treasure pile afterall, and you know the party makeup and what gear they have and should be able to make some good guesses about what they might want.
 
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mechanic: when you roll a natural 1, you can reroll once
plot hook: you must visit a mystic wizard who lives in a spire of dragon bone once a month or lose your ability to reroll 1s
You must visit a wizzard in his magical realm.
 
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