Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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I did talk to her later and she didn't like the character she made. It seems counterproductive to annoy everyone at the table and play your character as running from combat. The colonial marshal was retreating from moderately easy combat.

I played last night with the group and she made her new character a kid. Here we go again. Although still kind of annoying, she did actually RP and get involved with the story.

Two characters got into some trouble, hanging over the abyss about to fall to certain death. Without me pushing her to do so, she used her high mobility to rush over to lower a wire harness down for them to grab. It was nice to see her learn from mistakes and save half the party. It really warms my cold black heart.
Sometimes they DO learn.

Our 'that guy' never could figure out why he was held in low opinion. It came to a head during a Werewolf game where the GM stated she would be enforcing Honor/Renown, right up front. Fair enough. Except our 'that guy' was something of a coward; he'd puff up, but then refuse to deal with the repercussions of his shit-talking. So eventually he took a couple hits to his Honor and Renown, and quit in a huff.

I know his behavior's been the subject of a lot of discussion in our group, and it's entirely possible that GM had it out for him. But it wasn't a 'rocks fall everyone dies' or GM fiat. He was possibly the most cowardly Get of Fenris ever seen in a game.
 
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I did talk to her later and she didn't like the character she made.
This mind boggling shit right here is why you have to talk to your players. Jesus christ, make a new fucking character instead of making literally everyone at the table miserable. Why is this hard?

Anyway, glad its working out, and look forward to your post in 6 months where they're back to usual shit.

I know his behavior's been the subject of a lot of discussion in our group, and it's entirely possible that GM had it out for him. But it wasn't a 'rocks fall everyone dies' or GM fiat. He was possibly the most cowardly Get of Fenris ever seen in a game.

Just because the cops are to out get them doesn't mean they're not guilty.
 
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This will happen with almost 100% certainty.

Sometimes you just need to tell the player they need to do something else.

I had to fire a player recently (which regretfully meant firing their spouse as well) and had my first session after. Gave the remaining players each a (N)PC since its basically Act 3 of the module and if we tried to bring in new players they'd need to have more explained to them than they'd be be playing.

Play was a little slow as they were needing to switch back and forth and learning their new characters... but best session in months, maybe a year.

Jesus christ, talk about realizing I'd been a boiled frog.
I hadn't realized just how much the fired player's constant just trying to fight me on everything had affected me. Because even when they weren't fighting me, I had a flinch response of dealing with them when I'd call on them in session. It was nice to have enemies use abilities without someone yelling "BULLSHIT!", and when the party got outflanked, people treating it like a combat set back not a personal failure.
 
I am curious about how much certain 5e rules I basically ignore are enforced by other DMs now that my campaign is ending and if they think I caused a detriment by doing so. I've never really enforced rules about equipped weapons in hands - that is to say I've never stopped casters from casting with both hands full for somatics, melee players can easily switch between weapons for free even after the first attack of their multi-attack, everyone can grapple despite the status of what they are holding, etc. Most of my players (including myself) were new to D&D when we started almost 2 years ago, but I also had 2 veterans who where regular DMs and neither ever said anything about it where they did help me with other rules early on. When I experiment with character creation (as I'm sure most forever DMs do) I always follow the rules to the letter for hypothetical play it always comes off as very limiting for many classes.

What do you guy think, either as DM, player or both?
 
I am curious about how much certain 5e rules I basically ignore are enforced by other DMs now that my campaign is ending and if they think I caused a detriment by doing so. I've never really enforced rules about equipped weapons in hands - that is to say I've never stopped casters from casting with both hands full for somatics, melee players can easily switch between weapons for free even after the first attack of their multi-attack, everyone can grapple despite the status of what they are holding, etc. Most of my players (including myself) were new to D&D when we started almost 2 years ago, but I also had 2 veterans who where regular DMs and neither ever said anything about it where they did help me with other rules early on. When I experiment with character creation (as I'm sure most forever DMs do) I always follow the rules to the letter for hypothetical play it always comes off as very limiting for many classes.

What do you guy think, either as DM, player or both?
If it works for your group go nuts. I wouldn't run it like that, but it seems like everyone had fun so that's all that matters.
 
I am curious about how much certain 5e rules I basically ignore are enforced by other DMs now that my campaign is ending and if they think I caused a detriment by doing so. I've never really enforced rules about equipped weapons in hands - that is to say I've never stopped casters from casting with both hands full for somatics, melee players can easily switch between weapons for free even after the first attack of their multi-attack, everyone can grapple despite the status of what they are holding, etc. Most of my players (including myself) were new to D&D when we started almost 2 years ago, but I also had 2 veterans who where regular DMs and neither ever said anything about it where they did help me with other rules early on. When I experiment with character creation (as I'm sure most forever DMs do) I always follow the rules to the letter for hypothetical play it always comes off as very limiting for many classes.

What do you guy think, either as DM, player or both?

As @EnemyStand said, what works for your group is most important.
Also I'd be very hesitant to change course mid-stream; for the rest of your campaign I'd just keep doing what you're doing. Maybe possibly tell players what you're carving out for house rules so they don't get an unpleasant surprise at other tables.

For myself, as a DM, I usually hold to tracking free-hands & inventory because if you don't it makes things like Quickdraw worthless to take as a feat, etc. In a big budget game like D&D these things are almost always factored into the balance. But it does depend on the party - if everyone is just playing their character and not trying to break the system, if speeds up combat I'll probably let it go; but giving everyone quickdraw as bonus feat would be a complete non-starter with powergaming munchkins.

For casters, depends on system. Specifically for D&D 3.5/PF1e, fuck casters - they can sob all they want about needing to have both hands free to cast all they want as they end entire enemy squads in round 1.
For grapple, again depends on system. Again for 3.5/PF1 I'm going probably require both hands be free; I have to get out the flow chart, they can make sure they put away their weapons. I forget how grapple goes for 5e, but I remember it is less complex so I'd probably require at least one free hand.

Also in just about any system I give players their main weapon + two "Belt slots" that take whatever the equivalent of a minor action to draw from, and they can 'holster' a weapon/potion in them for free. (if its a two handed weapon, its just across their back). While it takes a minor action, I'll usually let players break strict action economy to get items in them-but if anyone wants to rules lawyer action flow, I go back to RAW.
So for melee multi-attack, for 5e as long as they have their bonus available, I'd let them have a single weapon swap in the middle of multi-attack. A lot of OSR-type system have full-minute turns, and a minute would let you draw and sheath several weapons.

Additionally, I look a lot a themeing if a player wants to flex some rules. "Are they doing something that works with their character, or are they just fishing for a +1?" If I have a barbarian who worships moradin with a lighting axe & thunder hammer who shouts something about Moradin's judgement as he uses both to wail on an enemy and does that every time he rages and multiattacks regardless of enemy resistances, I'm going be more likely to let that slide vs the "Well let's see. I'm going to use my sonic hammer, and then because
this is an aberation it will give them a vulnerability 3 to attacks vs lightning, so for my next attack I'll use my lighting axe which I've never done before and only do because there is a numerical advantage to be gained".

Personally, as a player, I like having limiters. Its fun to have obstacles to over come, and when you can do everything yourself there's no need for teamwork. You never appreciate Quickdraw if you never had to burn actions to get your other sword out, you never appreciate the Fighter holding the line if your caster never has to roll concentration, etc.

What I try to avoid from both a GM/Player perspecitive is needless autistic bookkeeping.
 
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Solasta: the crow of the magister, a computer RPG using the D&D 5e System Reference Document, got an expansion which added new archetypes for the classes and that got me to check what other archetypes the base game had and ended up on the game's forums, a player was nice enough to do write up of the archetypes "using 5e language". Anyways, the one that caught my attention was the green mage, a wizard archetype which can learn spells frol the druid spell lists and use bows or slings, they also get some rangerish features and a defensive feature at lvl 10th. The other archetypes which caught my attention were a casting rogue (which even the writeup mentioned it was like arcane trickster) with a teleport and a stone barbarian, the latter which I didn't fully read because it was an outdated version.
Already has a passing interest in that video game, but it is cool to see people using the SRD and building from there to do their own thing (and making something competent).
It is weird now that I think about it, there aren't many serious attempts at using the SRD to bring in new archetypes, most attempts at that which I see are homebrewers.
I am curious about how much certain 5e rules I basically ignore are enforced by other DMs now that my campaign is ending and if they think I caused a detriment by doing so. I've never really enforced rules about equipped weapons in hands - that is to say I've never stopped casters from casting with both hands full for somatics, melee players can easily switch between weapons for free even after the first attack of their multi-attack, everyone can grapple despite the status of what they are holding, etc. Most of my players (including myself) were new to D&D when we started almost 2 years ago, but I also had 2 veterans who where regular DMs and neither ever said anything about it where they did help me with other rules early on. When I experiment with character creation (as I'm sure most forever DMs do) I always follow the rules to the letter for hypothetical play it always comes off as very limiting for many classes.

What do you guy think, either as DM, player or both?
In my experience "hand economy" is mostly ignored for a bunch of reasons, the main one being that it is a bunch of convoluted minutia and another being letting your fighter draw an additional spear won't break anything
 
As @EnemyStand said, what works for your group is most important.
Also I'd be very hesitant to change course mid-stream; for the rest of your campaign I'd just keep doing what you're doing. Maybe possibly tell players what you're carving out for house rules so they don't get an unpleasant surprise at other tables.

For myself, as a DM, I usually hold to tracking free-hands & inventory because if you don't it makes things like Quickdraw worthless to take as a feat, etc. In a big budget game like D&D these things are almost always factored into the balance. But it does depend on the party - if everyone is just playing their character and not trying to break the system, if speeds up combat I'll probably let it go; but giving everyone quickdraw as bonus feat would be a complete non-starter with powergaming munchkins.

For casters, depends on system. Specifically for D&D 3.5/PF1e, fuck casters - they can sob all they want about needing to have both hands free to cast all they want as they end entire enemy squads in round 1.
For grapple, again depends on system. Again for 3.5/PF1 I'm going probably require both hands be free; I have to get out the flow chart, they can make sure they put away their weapons. I forget how grapple goes for 5e, but I remember it is less complex so I'd probably require at least one free hand.

Also in just about any system I give players their main weapon + two "Belt slots" that take whatever the equivalent of a minor action to draw from, and they can 'holster' a weapon/potion in them for free. (if its a two handed weapon, its just across their back). While it takes a minor action, I'll usually let players break strict action economy to get items in them-but if anyone wants to rules lawyer action flow, I go back to RAW.
So for melee multi-attack, for 5e as long as they have their bonus available, I'd let them have a single weapon swap in the middle of multi-attack. A lot of OSR-type system have full-minute turns, and a minute would let you draw and sheath several weapons.

Additionally, I look a lot a themeing if a player wants to flex some rules. "Are they doing something that works with their character, or are they just fishing for a +1?" If I have a barbarian who worships moradin with a lighting axe & thunder hammer who shouts something about Moradin's judgement as he uses both to wail on an enemy and does that every time he rages and multiattacks regardless of enemy resistances, I'm going be more likely to let that slide vs the "Well let's see. I'm going to use my sonic hammer, and then because
this is an aberation it will give them a vulnerability 3 to attacks vs lightning, so for my next attack I'll use my lighting axe which I've never done before and only do because there is a numerical advantage to be gained".

Personally, as a player, I like having limiters. Its fun to have obstacles to over come, and when you can do everything yourself there's no need for teamwork. You never appreciate Quickdraw if you never had to burn actions to get your other sword out, you never appreciate the Fighter holding the line if your caster never has to roll concentration, etc.

What I try to avoid from both a GM/Player perspecitive is needless autistic bookkeeping.
I feel like thats how most of the games go that I play in. The DM will only rules lawyer if someone is really pushing things/breaking the game. I've been allowed to get away with stuff that I wouldn't have let me do if I was running the game...

That said, I've always had an issue with min/maxing in that the game (homebrew and splatbook) feels so deadly at times that doing anything that isn't super-optimised or slightly min-maxed can leave you feeling really down and out. This leads to players really kind of getting the most out of their classes and characters in a way that feels like they've dipped online and read up on ridiculous gimmicks (Lord knows I've done it) all to the circumvent the game trying to crush your balls.

This could be an issue with games we've done that have ~4 PCs because games with 5 or more usually don't require the intense meta-ing of builds but it doesn't change the fact that you can feel pretty impotent running a character that isn't laser focused compared to the guy next to you. Again, this probably boils down to poor DMing and dull combat situations that are imbalanced one way or another.
 
I only care about hand economy for full casters, throwing and grapples. Casters is to help balance early in the campaign while this weakness is mitigated by items later, throwing is to make people take throwing specialist if they want to keep opportunity attacks after making their dramatic throw. And grapples is a long story.
Grapples I started tracking because a friend of mine’s character had obtained seven hands as a gimmick multiclass between unarmed fighter and astral monk+symic hybrid grasping arms on top of a magic item he rolled on a d100 I use for loot I can’t be bothered writing loot for every opportunity in the campaign. So it was pretty necessary to track how many people he can bash while he may be grappling a upwards of 7 small creatures
 
Thematically I like the idea of two hand casting for most casters, specifically full level arcane casters like wizards and sorcerers. Clerics, on the other hand, are hard to imagine without a shield, I would just be a stickler about them holding their holy symbol and not their mace. I would also want to make an exception for staves. Wizards can cast spells while holding a staff, mostly because unless you've put some stat points into strength you're not going to do much with it anyway and I'm a sucker for iconic imagery. The wizard with a 14 strength beating stuff with his staff is pretty cool anyway. If I was being a shit I'd let the wizard know a dagger is fine too, but he has to slice his hand open.

As far as balance goes I've sort of stopped caring about it all together. Just got back into PF1 and a lot of my previous concerns have gone out of the window and I'm having a great time with it. I have been running with less combat lately though so that could be the cause. They're 6th level now and one of them is a full on wizard so fuckery is inevitable but ya know? I think I'm fine with it and I think the rest of the party is too as long as I give everyone something fun to do. I guess a minor concern is if he picks up dominate person and starts wrangling NPCs and expecting entire combats with all of them acting, but I highly doubt that's the case and its not hard to just say, "this is shitting up the game, keep your mind thralls somewhere else".
 
I feel like thats how most of the games go that I play in. The DM will only rules lawyer if someone is really pushing things/breaking the game. I've been allowed to get away with stuff that I wouldn't have let me do if I was running the game...

The player I had to fire recently was like that. I tried to just summarize short rests and count their uses of healing and just track how long they were taking a break, they mistook my kindness for weakness to try to say using their healing powers 10 times was still 5 minutes, so we had to go step-by-step through each short rest.

I always hold to RAW, but not autistically. If you ballpark the minutiae that is usually good enough. If a player wants the RAW, I will give them the RAW and hold them to it (excepting any explicit house-rule carve outs, of course)

As far as balance goes I've sort of stopped caring about it all together. Just got back into PF1 and a lot of my previous concerns have gone out of the window and I'm having a great time with it. I have been running with less combat lately though so that could be the cause. They're 6th level now and one of them is a full on wizard so fuckery is inevitable but ya know? I think I'm fine with it and I think the rest of the party is too as long as I give everyone something fun to do. I guess a minor concern is if he picks up dominate person and starts wrangling NPCs and expecting entire combats with all of them acting, but I highly doubt that's the case and its not hard to just say, "this is shitting up the game, keep your mind thralls somewhere else".

Banning or reworking a spell is within your rights as GM. For multi-HD Charm/Dominate Person and the relateds, I usually rule that unless you've got some monster components as a multiplier, the targets won't enter into combat on your behalf. They can serve as obstacles and do shit like push buttons, but that combat generally falls into the "knowningly bringing harm to themselves"
 
The player I had to fire recently was like that. I tried to just summarize short rests and count their uses of healing and just track how long they were taking a break, they mistook my kindness for weakness to try to say using their healing powers 10 times was still 5 minutes, so we had to go step-by-step through each short rest.

I always hold to RAW, but not autistically. If you ballpark the minutiae that is usually good enough. If a player wants the RAW, I will give them the RAW and hold them to it (excepting any explicit house-rule carve outs, of course)



Banning or reworking a spell is within your rights as GM. For multi-HD Charm/Dominate Person and the relateds, I usually rule that unless you've got some monster components as a multiplier, the targets won't enter into combat on your behalf. They can serve as obstacles and do shit like push buttons, but that combat generally falls into the "knowningly bringing harm to themselves"
Generally speaking (and it depends on the system), Charm only lets you talk creatures into doing reasonable things. 'Hey, can you go stand at the end of the corridor and keep an eye out?', not 'Hey, throw yourself into combat with the ancient dragon!'.

Dominate, on the other hand, is a lot more brutal as it lets you override a target (though if you start doing things they don't like, they get to start saving against your spell usually with a bonus).
 
Oh hello I have returned to shill my two Play-by-Post games.


Endless Southern Lands (DCC)
To the south of the known world is an ancient purple land, ruined forever ago and forbidden to trespass upon. None have ever gone there, and no person or beast has ever come from there. Rare are rumors spoken of it, and often it is stated that such a place exists outside of the protection of the gods. But for the last 7 weeks, you have been haunted by waking dreams. Visions of sequences and vistas wholly foreign to the World Empire you know. And then, suddenly you find your reason to go. What images remain depict an Iron Ladder on an open plain, in a far southern land. At the top of this ladder, is the solution to your all your worries.

Make En Make (System Undecided)
In 2025, during the long planned decommissioning of the Diablo's Canyon Nuclear Power Plant, World War 3 began.
Less than 5 months later, after limited exchange of both nuclear and hypersonic weapons the last great war ended.
During the exchange, several hypersonic missiles struck the reactor and drowned the west coast in radiation.
The year is 2037. North America has returned to the lawless frontier it once was. But something worse than biker gangs is brewing in the ruins of Diablo's Canyon . . . Much like Chernobyl today, all radiation is dissipating at a much faster rate than projected but concentrating at an unknown point in the plant itself, referred to as "Diablo".

Features
-->Play by Post format allows for more inclusive games with no scheduling conflicts.
-->Limited Open World with a Universal Objective means all the fun of a"West Marshes" game with none of the pointless meandering.
--> Basically American Stalker (Get outta here, partner)
--> Rogue-like Structure heavily inspired by PUBG/Hunt: Showdown/F.E.A.R as well as Squid Game/SAW.
--> Multiple teams of players both cooperating and competing for varying goals related to Diablo's Canyon.
--> Los Angeles and San Francisco have both been nuked into oblivion.


PM me for a link to my grooming server if you're interested.
 
I had a thought, and mind you, this could just be me thinking too hard about my autistic elfgames.

I’m gonna preface this by saying that there’s only one right way to play a tabletop rpg, and that’s, “Whatever works for you and your group.” I’m not out to diss anyone’s preference of game style.

That being said, I feel like there’s been a shift in tabletop games from when it first started to now. Instead of a sandbox game with a bunch of interesting locales, there’s generally a single story (or a series of stories) where the main characters shape what happens next. Nothing inherently wrong with either, mind (though I’ll admit to having never played an OSR game before). I’m just curious as to how that change came about.
 
Banning or reworking a spell is within your rights as GM. For multi-HD Charm/Dominate Person and the relateds, I usually rule that unless you've got some monster components as a multiplier, the targets won't enter into combat on your behalf. They can serve as obstacles and do shit like push buttons, but that combat generally falls into the "knowningly bringing harm to themselves"
For me, it's 5th edition Force Cage. I don't mind if a player uses it, but I refuse to use it as a DM simply because it's going to mean 1 or 2 players will have to sit around doing fuck all because there's no save to avoid it and if they are melee classes, they are just fucked. It's a No Fun Allowed gay baby jail.
 
I had a thought, and mind you, this could just be me thinking too hard about my autistic elfgames.

I’m gonna preface this by saying that there’s only one right way to play a tabletop rpg, and that’s, “Whatever works for you and your group.” I’m not out to diss anyone’s preference of game style.

That being said, I feel like there’s been a shift in tabletop games from when it first started to now. Instead of a sandbox game with a bunch of interesting locales, there’s generally a single story (or a series of stories) where the main characters shape what happens next. Nothing inherently wrong with either, mind (though I’ll admit to having never played an OSR game before). I’m just curious as to how that change came about.
Two reasons. One: writing an open world with lots of interesting locales is hard. You have to figure out scale, local customs for every country, city, and town and how they're connected, what types of races inhabit where, which monsters go where...it's a lot of work not everyone is autistic enough to pull off. Second is the Internet led to a lot of blue booking, so in order to keep it easy to post the adventures online it was just easier to have a general plot you fill in as the players go.

For me, it's 5th edition Force Cage. I don't mind if a player uses it, but I refuse to use it as a DM simply because it's going to mean 1 or 2 players will have to sit around doing fuck all because there's no save to avoid it and if they are melee classes, they are just fucked. It's a No Fun Allowed gay baby jail.
I used it when I needed to stick a PC somewhere for whatever reason so the party can rescue him. Usually resulted from idiots trying to solo the BBEG but not being annoying enough for me to want to kill immediately. Otherwise, yeah it's unfun.
 
I am curious about how much certain 5e rules I basically ignore are enforced by other DMs now that my campaign is ending and if they think I caused a detriment by doing so. I've never really enforced rules about equipped weapons in hands - that is to say I've never stopped casters from casting with both hands full for somatics, melee players can easily switch between weapons for free even after the first attack of their multi-attack, everyone can grapple despite the status of what they are holding, etc. Most of my players (including myself) were new to D&D when we started almost 2 years ago, but I also had 2 veterans who where regular DMs and neither ever said anything about it where they did help me with other rules early on. When I experiment with character creation (as I'm sure most forever DMs do) I always follow the rules to the letter for hypothetical play it always comes off as very limiting for many classes.

What do you guy think, either as DM, player or both?
About the only thing it really matters for is melee/range switching and clerics from being able to do AoO. It's not the end of the world if you don't track it.
 
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