Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
Fudge a lot of stuff. Things like initiative don't matter for minor fights. Fudge die rolls and health totals to make fights go faster once it's clear what direction it's going.

I agree with the general sentiment, but not with the solution. Don't fudge rolls. Not because "let the dice fall where they may", but because fudging rolls breaks trust in a hobby where trusting each other to play by the rules is essential. Just going ooc for a bit and telling the players that they're crushing the enemies and can mop up narratively if they want goes over better in my experience. Rather than fudging rolls, just skip rolling altogether when roll results aren't important.
 
Personally I am surprised this happened even if I know it makes sense money-wise: This doesn't hurt pathfinder 2e and in fact might expose D&D 5e players to it.

I have also read comments praising how
Paizo structures their adventures and other things such as offering a player's guide with advice on how to make a character that fits in the adventure. All of this in contrast of the usual bitching about how poorly structured the 5e adventures are.

I strongly disagree.
I think its a good idea/good move for Paizo but a very bad move for PF 2e. Releasing modules for another system is pretty much taking the L, and if I was playing PF 2e I'd take that as a sign the system is heading to being officially abandoned.

This isn't like Goodman Games doing their reworks of Classic D&D modules with supplemental 5e updates* (since anyone using DCC is going convert the original module and there are already guides to do that) this is Paizo converting their own material to 5e. This is Sonic being released on Nintendo levels of company refocus.

But that's good for the company. They made their bones releasing 3.x modules people really liked (never bothered with their stuff so can't say), so if their going woke hasn't completely rotted out their staff they can probably do the same for 5e modules. So when WotC announces 6e, they might be able to spin that into getting people to try PF 3e.

tl;dr: This is terrible news for PF 2e, good news for PF 3e.

*This is a good play. Releasing the OG module means they are not just publishing the module for DCC players, but are targeting the entire OSR market since if an OSR system isn't Out-the-box Classic-compatible, there are conversion guides. Including the 5e conversations means they get the 5e crowd too. Additonally, including the OG means 5e fags can pretend they are "Old School" with the temple of elemental evil sitting unused on their shelf.

What most people don't realize is that PF 2E isn't really a competitor anymore. Paizo is, at its core, a fan thief. They took the 3.5 spergs with their first edition, now they're sucking in the people who liked 4E unironically. They siphon off the fans of old editions that want new books to buy while all the newfags jump on WotC's 5E dick.

That is completely accurate summation of Paizo's game systems.

And wow dude, shots fired. Though if the unironic 4e fan is the target, I was missed. They had some good ideas but flubbed the execution. They also really should learned from what they were aping and used a different name. PF was a sperglord min-maxer's paradise, and PF 2.0... wasn't. They were also about 5 years late to the show to capture 4e fans.

Fudge a lot of stuff. Things like initiative don't matter for minor fights. Fudge die rolls and health totals to make fights go faster once it's clear what direction it's going.
I agree with the general sentiment, but not with the solution. Don't fudge rolls. Not because "let the dice fall where they may", but because fudging rolls breaks trust in a hobby where trusting each other to play by the rules is essential. Just going ooc for a bit and telling the players that they're crushing the enemies and can mop up narratively if they want goes over better in my experience. Rather than fudging rolls, just skip rolling altogether when roll results aren't important.

I don't fudge the dice (Except when I do fudge the rolls because its a game not real life; but the players should never know you fudged them). What I do fudge is the interpretation - maybe that 18 actually means the Orc actually rolled a Crit, but dies next time he's hit.

When its down to mop-up time, I take a look at the board - is there a direction for Enemies to run? They might take it if they think they can make it. I'll look at the odds and what's going on. Is this a one-off battle where the party is going to get a long rest after? I'll just end the battle. If its in a dungeon crawl and, who knows, that 1d8+3 HP might be make-or-break in the future, I'll tell the party
"Alright, odds are these enemies will last X rounds against you. I'm just going to roll X attacks, and then you'll kill them." If the party doesn't feel that's fair, we'll play it out to completion.

I don't like fudging rolls because it removes the only "real" thing from the game, which is the consequences of players actions. Trust is big too, but mainly if you're just going to have the dice show whatever you want, you are playing a narrative game and you should find a system that leans to that.
In the right hands, failure tells a better story than success.
 
That is completely accurate summation of Paizo's game systems.

And wow dude, shots fired. Though if the unironic 4e fan is the target, I was missed. They had some good ideas but flubbed the execution. They also really should learned from what they were aping and used a different name. PF was a sperglord min-maxer's paradise, and PF 2.0... wasn't. They were also about 5 years late to the show to capture 4e fans.
No offense intended, although I'm not sure what shots I was firing. You're not a newfag and I wasn't insulting the 4E or 3.5E spedlords (I use the term "spedlord" with great affection). The reason why I say they're targeting 4E lovers is because the game is kind of stripped down to a very simple combat simulator that requires very little building since most of the hard work is already done for you, much like 4E. The Bestiary is set up like 4Es Monster Manual, with one or two boss monsters and the stat blocks are more or less the same. Hell, even the multiclassing is a stilted, overly complicated mess just like 4E because the ruleset just doesn't play to multiclassing. It's been shined up really nice, but if you pay attention you'll see what it is: updated D&D 4E. Maybe they're five years to late to grab the fans, but it's clear who the target audience is for better or worse.
 
Honestly, I liked a lot of what PF2 was trying to do. The action system "3 actions" instead of "move action, regular action, bonus action, free action, reaction, quick action, posting on kiwifarms action". It cut the bullshit and made for a lot in character strategy. I also liked the character building aspect.

Where they fucked it up was having way too much maths that slowed the game to a crawl. It was also insanely punishing at low levels.
 
My second bit of advice is don't worry to much. You don't have to know every rule, but you have to know the game well enough to make a judgement call. You don't have to do elaborate voices and have in depth backstories for every villager, but enough so that players can ask basic questions of major NPCs and you can have an answer.

To build on that a bit:
When you're starting out, you might flip around a bit if you need to clarify (or you know exactly where it is and just need 5 seconds to look it up and confirm) but in general - Make a judgement call, say you're making a ruling for the session, then look it up afterwards. If you got it wrong, own the fact you called it wrong next session (I send wrap up emails to my group with a brief narrative of what happened in session [more for my own recall than the players], and include anything I needed to check on in those). You might give the players compensation, but you don't have to every time.
If you were wrong, but like the way you were wrong better, then house rule it so that's now right. But make sure to document that somewhere.

No offense intended, although I'm not sure what shots I was firing. You're not a newfag and I wasn't insulting the 4E or 3.5E spedlords (I use the term "spedlord" with great affection). The reason why I say they're targeting 4E lovers is because the game is kind of stripped down to a very simple combat simulator that requires very little building since most of the hard work is already done for you, much like 4E. The Bestiary is set up like 4Es Monster Manual, with one or two boss monsters and the stat blocks are more or less the same. Hell, even the multiclassing is a stilted, overly complicated mess just like 4E because the ruleset just doesn't play to multiclassing. It's been shined up really nice, but if you pay attention you'll see what it is: updated D&D 4E. Maybe they're five years to late to grab the fans, but it's clear who the target audience is for better or worse.

t'was but a joke.
edit: When I say I was missed, it was not to dispute your point re: their goal was to peel off 4e fans. More that at least in my case, they failed.

And I agree, I can see 4E's fingerprints in PF2 , and 5e's influence as well. Its like a weird alternate universe version of D&D Next. I never even cracked their Monster Manual, so I'll take your word on it.
 
Last edited:
If PF2 is on the way out I dont really care honestly. I have enough content from it that I can do whatever I want with the system for the next five plus years.

Then again I never use premade modules, so I'm not the target audience for this stuff I guess.
 
If PF2 is on the way out I dont really care honestly. I have enough content from it that I can do whatever I want with the system for the next five plus years.

Then again I never use premade modules, so I'm not the target audience for this stuff I guess.

Take it from someone who enjoys 4e: Your system getting dropped by the publisher matters more than you think. Yes, shit is all well and good for the moment, but when your system is dead you will have trouble bringing in new players. And unless you are on-boarding newbies, as terms change meaning you will have to help your players unlearn a lot of concepts.
Its like with all the Tranny shit and CRT getting shoved into books now: sure its fine now, you've got your player, your campaign, and if Pazio goes belly up you don't care. But you'll need to replace players at some point. People move, die, get into relationships, have kids, change jobs.

Granted, PF2 has a real SRD available which helps with player education and getting people to try out the system.
 
I agree with the general sentiment, but not with the solution. Don't fudge rolls. Not because "let the dice fall where they may", but because fudging rolls breaks trust in a hobby where trusting each other to play by the rules is essential. Just going ooc for a bit and telling the players that they're crushing the enemies and can mop up narratively if they want goes over better in my experience. Rather than fudging rolls, just skip rolling altogether when roll results aren't important.
I normally just make it so if the encounter is so one-sided I start making the enemies panic and start trying to flee.
At the very least there's less attack rolls and they already won.
It's also makes it more funny when the players aren't paying attention and they're less "fleeing in terror out of the dungeon" and more "retreating into a more advantageous position/ alerting literally everyone"
 
Take it from someone who enjoys 4e: Your system getting dropped by the publisher matters more than you think. Yes, shit is all well and good for the moment, but when your system is dead you will have trouble bringing in new players. And unless you are on-boarding newbies, as terms change meaning you will have to help your players unlearn a lot of concepts.
Its like with all the Tranny shit and CRT getting shoved into books now: sure its fine now, you've got your player, your campaign, and if Pazio goes belly up you don't care. But you'll need to replace players at some point. People move, die, get into relationships, have kids, change jobs.

Granted, PF2 has a real SRD available which helps with player education and getting people to try out the system.
Your points are all fair and relevant. I just look at that as a chance to learn new systems and try new things. Worst case, I'll run 5e for people and table ban freakshit races.

Speaking of new systems, I saw a Knights Templar book last time I was at the LGS which looked interesting. Playing as the last persecuted Templars running from the Church in the Middle Ages sounds like a pretty fun time to me. Then I opened the book and the foreword was titled "Hate". I naively thought, "oh hey, a warning about how the middle ages was shaped and molded by hatreds of faith and ethnicity and maybe some advice on how to portray that realistically at the gaming table". You know, as a mature adult that respects history and the historical context of the Knights Templar, who were exterminated in one of the great power plays of the Medieval period.

Nope. It was a bog standard "Hate has no place at the gaming table", "if you're a white supremacist fuck off" boilerplate virtue signal. AS THE FOREWORD TO A BOOK ABOUT PLAYING AS THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR. How purblind can you be? Just disappointing.
 
Your points are all fair and relevant. I just look at that as a chance to learn new systems and try new things. Worst case, I'll run 5e for people and table ban freakshit races.

That's a fair attitude I can't argue with. I mean if you've got a campaign on PF2e and you like it, no need to jump ship today because Paizo has announced they have moved the system to a hospice care facility. AD&D2e was officially dropped 22 years ago and you can still find games. And with Paizo having fully embraced digital, its not like the materials will ever become unobtainium. If you are just going to run out the clock, that's fine.
 
Honestly, I liked a lot of what PF2 was trying to do. The action system "3 actions" instead of "move action, regular action, bonus action, free action, reaction, quick action, posting on kiwifarms action". It cut the bullshit and made for a lot in character strategy. I also liked the character building aspect.

Where they fucked it up was having way too much maths that slowed the game to a crawl. It was also insanely punishing at low levels.
It's not so much punishing as it requires you to alter your tactics a bit. Healing post-fight should really be handled with Medicine checks and healing kits -- save spells and potions for clutch moments. And don't try to muscle through multiple encounters while you're damaged.
 
Never thought I'd live to see the day this game got considered "Woke" or "libtard" but here we are...
1648934112667.png

1648934178436.png
 
How is it 'woke'?
Because you're fighting Russians and Russians are portrayed as invaders trying to occupy the US of A rather than Based Defenders of Christianity, Masculinity, Traditional Values (tm) and Western Civilization.
 
But, you are fighting the Soviet Union, not modern Russia, right? Its like, Red Dawn in tabletop form, right?
Serious talk, yea, it's basically Red Dawn: The RPG. It also has the best mechanics I've ever seen in an RPG. I regret selling my boxed copy to this day. I just like taking jabs at "RUSSIA IS SO BASED N REDPULLED!" rhetoric.

Do you think any SJW or zoomer understands the difference?
I wonder if any redpill/Tsaraboo does.
 
Serious talk, yea, it's basically Red Dawn: The RPG. It also has the best mechanics I've ever seen in an RPG. I regret selling my boxed copy to this day. I just like taking jabs at "RUSSIA IS SO BASED N REDPULLED!" rhetoric.


I wonder if any redpill/Tsaraboo does.

TBF to a Tsaraboo, the actual power in charge of Russia (Oligarchs) haven't changed since Khrushchev and Putin's list of appointees has tons of "In X post during the final days of the Soviet Union". So "Rooska Stonk"faggots using a Mig-25 model to massage their prostates have it correct, even if they don't realize why they have it correct.

I always enjoy watching Sovicucks trying to marry environmental stances to what happened to the Aral Sea and Soviet nuclear disposal practices.
 
I always enjoy watching Sovicucks trying to marry environmental stances to what happened to the Aral Sea and Soviet nuclear disposal practices.
That's got me curious now. Me, though, I like hurling the trashfire that is Lysenkoism at such Sovietboos.
 
Because you're fighting Russians and Russians are portrayed as invaders trying to occupy the US of A rather than Based Defenders of Christianity, Masculinity, Traditional Values (tm) and Western Civilization.
That's...because... it's meant to be a jab at Red Dawn. The movie where the SOVIET UNION, not Russia, invaded the US.

It was released in the late 80s, as both a tongue in cheek view of things, as well as a way to cope with the weirdness of the end of the Cold War. Not meant to be a critique of modern Russia, not by a long shot.
 
Back
Top Bottom