Plummeting Birthrates Watch Thread - The horrifying implications of living in a Children of Men situation.

[Agares]

Claiming that nobody having kids is an economic problem is a gayop to distract from real solutions. I keep saying this and nobody believes me, even when you see extreme cases like hungary where the issue still wont budge.

Its purely cultural, and the zeitgeist at this point is basically 'gratify yourself as much and as often as possible' which does not comport with caring about or for anyone but yourself. Its not straightforward to undo the level of damage that has been done and the sooner we commit to a solution to that the better.

These solutions are almost inevitably anti man or anti woman. I have seen literally none that won't make life miserable for everyone save for increasing paid family leave, encouraging the extended family/community and more support for parents.

Taxing bachelors would be an absolute disaster and it won't fix the underlying issue of men having trouble meeting potential GF's.

Banning birth control/abortion will just make more single moms and unwanted children, aka a hell of a lot more societal dysfunction down the road.

Encouraging families and making society revolve around them makes literally ZERO sense when most under 35's can't afford a house. And all this encouraging "muh family values" just creates a generation of inauthentic grifters who don't actually believe what they preach (see: all the so called trad influencers flooding the internet.).

That being said, we should be carpet bombing Africa with plan B, birth control and condoms. Anyone opposed to this plan needs to be rounded up and deported to Mogadishu.

 

[cybertoaster]

it amounts to being paid for having kids.

Not really, I know people who wouldn't have kids even for a million cash but I also know others who would love to but really can't afford a kid as it would bankrupt them. Raising a kid in the first world is more expensive than ever, go back 50 years and there wasn't much of a cost difference with raising one in a third world country, but now kids demand more stuff, more safety, more care, education is way more expensive, and that's without counting the cost of moving from an apartment or condo to a house big enough for a family.

Meanwhile in the real world the government who bitches about birthrates wont even subsidize childbirths at the hospital.

Women have high standards in the west, like, insanely high standards.

Having been stuck in the third world I can tell you women over there also have insanely high standards, in fact proportionally I would say their standards are even higher considering the local conditions and what men over there can get in life. LATAM, india and the more decent asian countries are rife with feminism and gendershit, you will see poor kids from the favela rummaging thru the trash while a pride parade is happening a block away and dangerhair loonies are spray-painting a 500yo church.

>inb4 "but my buddy went there and got so much puss!"

Yeah leaving aside that guy may be lying or exaggerating the reason you might get lucky over there is:

1. You're exotic to them.
2. They want a greencard, its insanely hard to come to America legally and not everybody is up for jumping the fence and working like a slave (not starting a discussion about immigration laws just stating the facts). But once she get residency she's dumping your ass, but not your money.

I would say get a muslim chick but I been hearing from egyptians and pakistanis that shit isn't that great over there either, men roping themselves after getting ruined in a divorce and other stuff that we already know.

getting rid of divorce incentives like alimony

That could work, also paper abortions where the man can refuse the child and not have to support it.

I she can choose I can choose too.

even when you see extreme cases like hungary where the issue still wont budge.

Whats happening there?

Taxing bachelors would be an absolute disaster

Because its been done many time before even back when women had no rights and just had to get married, and it didn't work.

That being said, we should be carpet bombing Africa with plan B, birth control and condoms.

We already did in the 60's, also india and other places, and they are still butthurt about it.

 

[geckogoy]

Whats happening there?

See what I was replying to for an easy hint to what I was referring to

These solutions are almost inevitably anti man or anti woman. I have seen literally none that won't make life miserable for everyone save for increasing paid family leave, encouraging the extended family/community and more support for parents.

The solution is shift the societal norm back to having families. Not having a family means you get shit on and embarassed, and that the opposite stops happening. Basically this could easily be done through propaganda in the exact same way the opposite was done to us in the first place by jews. I say easily because this would be cleaving to actual real human nature rather than trying to roll the boulder uphill and convince everyone they are the first generation of humans to not want children.

 

[cybertoaster]

This belongs in the deep thots or something. Not a happening. A long term problem.

Hungary has been trying for a 4 children family model.

You get big loans, and each child writes off 25%. So at 4 it becomes a gibsmuh.

Also women after 4 chilsren don't pay income tax.

Yet it isn't working very well. Western values and feminism seem resistant to even these very strong incentives.

Especially with educated women, this seems like a perfect way to get 4 kids than a career with a +35% bonus pay anti gap while the house husband takes care of the kids. Sounds like a stro g woman dream, still no baby boom.

TBF 4 kids seems a bit much for most women, they should've gone with 2, maybe 3. Are the loans big enough to pay for 18 years of raising a child?

 

[Agares]

The solution is shift the societal norm back to having families. Not having a family means you get shit on and embarassed, and that the opposite stops happening. Basically this could easily be done through propaganda in the exact same way the opposite was done to us in the first place by jews. I say easily because this would be cleaving to actual real human nature rather than trying to roll the boulder uphill and convince everyone they are the first generation of humans to not want children.

Just because it was the norm in the past doesn't mean it was all stepford suburbia with happy families. People were fucking miserable and generational dysfunction got passed on. Shaming people into living shitty, inauthentic lives to conform won't fix shit.

That and the conditions for large families just aren't there anymore for the working and middle class. No way in hell am I having 4 kids with 40 hour workweeks, zero support from the extended family/community and the cost of living crisis. Granted a lot of these could be fixed through unrelated reforms.

 

[geckogoy]

Just because it was the norm in the past doesn't mean it was all stepford suburbia with happy families. People were fucking miserable and generational dysfunction got passed on. Shaming people into living shitty, inauthentic lives to conform won't fix shit.

This is all made up bullshit, there should not be a 30% marriage rate in any generation this is absurd. People were not miserable wretches for all of human history, in fact they appear to be so now more than ever before

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

Just a reminder of the groups of people that will dominate for the rest of the 21st century.

 

[Judge Dredd]

I know people who wouldn't have kids even for a million cash but I also know others who would love to but really can't afford a kid as it would bankrupt them.

I never said it was a lot of money. It can be phrased however you want. Bachelor tax, tax breaks for families, welfare, it doesn't matter the specific method, the end result is the same. It doesn't work.

Kind of like this post says

That and the conditions for large families just aren't there anymore for the working and middle class. No way in hell am I having 4 kids with 40 hour workweeks, zero support from the extended family/community and the cost of living crisis. Granted a lot of these could be fixed through unrelated reforms.

The government solution is usually more taxes to fund programs, but it just exacerbates the problem.

Having been stuck in the third world I can tell you women over there also have insanely high standards,

LATAM, india and the more decent asian countries are rife with feminism and gendershit,

That I didn't know.

Though oddly enough, the so called Passport Bros, advise if you marry a foreign woman, don't bring her to the west. The rational being that when they come to the west, they quickly adopt feminism and turn into the same people that Passport Bros were trying to avoid.

The spread of feminism and wokeshit, along with the collapse of birth rates as they get adopted, I think could be a cause, but it's hard to say.

Just a reminder of the groups of people that will dominate for the rest of the 21st century.
View attachment 5956034

India is already just below replacement.

 

[Odd Opossum]

Not having a family means you get shit on and embarassed, and that the opposite stops happening.

That sounds retarded and a good way for failed marriages to multiply.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

India is already just below replacement.

Prove it.

 

[geckogoy]

That sounds retarded and a good way for failed marriages to multiply.

"you cant make fun of me for being unmarried because... THEN MARRIAGES WILL FAIL!"

 

[Odd Opossum]

"you cant make fun of me for being unmarried because... THEN MARRIAGES WILL FAIL!"

Society pressuring people to get married sounds like a recipe for two incompatible people getting together and having a toxic relationship, and I have to assume anyone pushing these ideas is a guy hoping he can make it sociably acceptable to bully a woman into fucking him.

 

[DeadwastePrime]

Just a reminder of the groups of people that will dominate for the rest of the 21st century.
View attachment 5956034

gee its like countries with low economic stability and higher lower class populations creates a situation where you need to have more than one or two children in order to have their family be successful, especially when most children in these countries perish before they turn 5.

they'll stabilize and drop off eventually, but it will take decades

 

[Agares]

That sounds retarded and a good way for failed marriages to multiply.

That's the endgame of all these forced natalist policies, intentional or not. All you get are miserable single parents, people stuck in failing marriages and most heartbreaking of all, a generation full of unwanted kids. And kids can tell when they're unwanted.

gee its like countries with low economic stability and higher lower class populations creates a situation where you need to have more than one or two children in order to have their family be successful, especially when most children in these countries perish before they turn 5.

they'll stabilize and drop off eventually, but it will take decades

It happened to South Korea. They went through a transition like this in the 20th century and are now the least fertile country on earth. We just need to find a way to speed up the transition in Africa.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

It happened to South Korea. They went through a transition like this in the 20th century and are now the least fertile country on earth. We just need to find a way to speed up the transition in Africa.

We need to bring birth control to Africa.

 

[The Ugly One]

People were fucking miserable

There is zero evidence for this. All available data points to women today being unhappier than they've ever been. And even if it is true, all it shows is that unhappiness is fundamental to the human condition, and we should really stop tearing up society by its roots every generation or two in search of a way of life where nobody ever has to be unhappy, ever, about anything.

 

[Agares]

We need to bring birth control to Africa.

That's what I've been saying. The Evangelical groups that oppose this are contributing to an existential threat to civilization.

There is zero evidence for this. All available data points to women today being unhappier than they've ever been. And even if it is true, all it shows is that unhappiness is fundamental to the human condition, and we should really stop tearing up society by its roots every generation or two in search of a way of life where nobody ever has to be unhappy, ever, about anything.

Promiscuity and hedonism lead to unhappiness, yes but that's not on the same level as being voluntarily childless. I know this may come as a shock to all the /pol/tards in this thread, but there are plenty of people who don't want kids that aren't whores/manwhores or childish themselves. They just realize that they're not cut out for parenthood in this world. Most women aren't getting pump and dumped from hot guys on dating apps, just a minority of them that you people hyperfocus on.

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

That's what I've been saying. The Evangelical groups that oppose this are contributing to an existential threat to civilization.

Promiscuity and hedonism lead to unhappiness, yes but that's not on the same level as being voluntarily childless. I know this may come as a shock to all the /pol/tards in this thread, but there are plenty of people who don't want kids that aren't whores/manwhores or childish themselves. They just realize that they're not cut out for parenthood in this world. Most women aren't getting pump and dumped from hot guys on dating apps, just a minority of them that you people hyperfocus on.

Nobody's talking about those people. There's a minority of spinsters in every society and they're typically not a problem. What's concerning is the giant mass of people who would normally have kids and be good parents but currently choose not to due to social pressures, economic anxieties and cultural deprivation.

 

[Agares]

Nobody's talking about those people. There's a minority of spinsters in every society and they're typically not a problem. What's concerning is the giant mass of people who would normally have kids and be good parents but currently choose not to due to social pressures, economic anxieties and cultural deprivation.

There's barely any social pressure not to have kids outside of climate crazy circles or legit hedonists. And furthermore, I would go as far to argue that the social pressure to have kids is still there even though it's weaker than it was in the past.

But economic anxieties are very real and maybe the powers that be should actually fucking do something about it instead of insisting that eternal post 2020 stagflation is fine. The day of the pillow can't come soon enough.

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

There's barely any social pressure not to have kids outside of climate crazy circles or legit hedonists. And furthermore, I would go as far to argue that the social pressure to have kids is still there even though it's weaker than it was in the past.

But economic anxieties are very real and maybe the powers that be should actually fucking do something about it instead of insisting that eternal post 2020 stagflation is fine. The day of the pillow can't come soon enough.

It's true the social pressure is still there but you said it yourself that it's delayed and weakened. Which isn't something I entirely begrudge because the Prime issue is the economics of the whole deal. We're asking the youth of the country to live in ghettos if they want kids.