Official Kiwifarms Based Christianity Thread

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I'm not really familiar with them and their argument regarding this, but I'd appreciate you describing it or pointing towards a specific resource, whenever you might have the time.
the book "That All Shall be Saved" by David Bentley Hart was my introduction to it.

In a nutshell, there are 2 or 3 verses in the new testament that are used to justify the idea of hell, but Hart (and all universalists) argue that the original Greek of those verses are misinterpreted.

The first misinterpretation is the idea of "eternal" punishment. Hart claims that the original Greek does not say "eternal," but instead refers to a long age, or different age, not an eternal one.

The second is the description of a fiery pit. Hart says the verses used for this description of hell are talking metaphorically about a trash burn pit outside Jerusalem as a place where you will end up if you sin. Like saying "your life is a dumpster fire" to someone who can't stop fucking up.


The above two arguments are the translation arguments, but Hart also makes a philosophical argument against the idea of an eternal hell in the book. I won't try to state it here. This article is a condensed version by Hart.

I find the arguments satisfying. I don't believe in an eternal torture chamber for non believers anymore. I don't know what the reality is, but I'm not going to keep believing in an objectively flawed interpretation for lack of a replacement.
 
@Jewthulhu mind sharing why you disagree?
Non-baptised babies dont get requiem service, but I still count on Lord's mercy because its not like its a bureaucratic service up there.
 
@Jewthulhu mind sharing why you disagree?
Non-baptised babies dont get requiem service, but I still count on Lord's mercy because its not like its a bureaucratic service up there.
Perhaps I misunderstood your post, or perhaps I misunderstand the theology myself. From what I understand, original sin as an inheritance of guilt is a Catholic dogma. I think the Orthodox dogma is that the fate of unbaptized infants is a mystery (which to be fair is the generic answer in Orthodoxy), but from what I understand most seem to assume God has mercy on them.
 
Its a really complex issue and im no theologist, but i think that we all bear the original sin.
btw @Jewthulhu where did you find this that the fate of unbaptized infants is a mystery and that is an orthodox teaching?
 
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Its a really complex issue and im no theologist, but i think that we all bear the original sin.
From what I've found we bear the consequence of original sin, that is, mortality and the predisposition towards sin, but do not bear the guilt of original sin.
btw @Jewthulhu where did you find this that the fate of unbaptized infants is a mystery and that is an orthodox teaching?
From https://orthodoxwiki.org/Original_sin, specifically, referencing the work of Gregory of Nyssa
The anguish of the Church appears in the questions he puts to himself: the destiny of these infants is a mystery, 'something much greater than the human mind can grasp'.
'The premature death of newborn infants does not provide a basis for the presupposition that they will suffer torments or that they will be in the same state as those who have been purified in this life by all the virtues'.
But IDK. I just did some quick websearching, as it's not really something I think about much.
 
Christians are lied to, the Bible never said there was only one god.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bPEPE7beR3s
Okay let’s take it for granted that there is a “biblical hierarchy”. What is your point? Even if we were to take this video’s claims at face value- which we shouldn’t necessarily do, but this argument can be made without even having to address those points- the Bible is clear that we are to worship God alone. And Christians are lied to all of the time. “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves” (Mat 7:15)
 
Christos anesti to my fellow Orthodox Christians.
 
The guys of American Thinker posted a rant about the folks of MSNBC who was shocked and offended then our laws should be based on Christian values.

June 30, 2024

MSNBC host shocked and offended that many Americans believe our laws should be based on Christian values​

By Eric Utter


Some lady — I could never ascertain her name* — hosting on MSNBC’s “Velshi” program (“Church and State”), recently reported that Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito was “under fire” for a recording “in which he apparently endorsed the view that America needs to return to a place of ‘godliness.’” (She sneered a bit when uttering the word “godliness,” as if it made her somewhat nauseous.) She was obviously offended by such a statement from “one of the most powerful figures in the country,” a man who is “supposed to be impartial” and not openly embrace the idea of a “theocratic state.”

The video is here.
Returning to a place of “godliness” does not necessarily mean embracing a “theocratic state,” Ms. Whoeverthehellyouare. It was far more likely that Justice Alito meant returning to a time of decency, dignity, respect, and the rule of law. And perhaps acknowledgement of the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule. You know, like not murdering others, not pooping in the street, or not trying to imprison one’s political opponents. Or are you against those “restrictions,” too? Probably.

The show's guest in the same video, whom I couldn’t pick out in a crowd of two even if the other was Rachel Maddow, then stated: “The right’s embrace of overtly Christian nationalism ideology has been on the rise, and it’s a trend that many historians and experts have named an existential threat to our democracy.” It has been anything but on the rise. Attendance at Christian churches is down significantly from just a few short years ago. Christians are openly mocked in movies, on television shows, by comedians, etc., etc.
She then, with complete objectivity, observed that Christian nationalists were “insurrectionists” on Jan. 6 and mockingly noted that “they prayed in the Senate,” and “stated on video their goal to elevate Christianity as an explicitly American principle.” And, of course, she said they wish to propagate the “myth” that America was founded as a Christian nation.

By God godlessness, if those dangerous Christian insurrectionists prayed in the Senate, they should get the electric chair, right? I’m sure she would agree, even though she is obviously someone who values tolerance and inclusion above all else. Goes without saying. We all know that Christianity and the Judeo-Christian work ethic and values played absolutely no part in American exceptionalism, and had nothing to do with our freedoms and the protections granted us by the Constitution, right?
I think the staff of MSNBC should stay a couple of days at Dearborn or Hamtramck to see if they would sing the same song.
 
I have always had a good relationship with Catholicism. I remember that when I was a child I used to sneak away from my parents when they were having coffee to go to a church that was in the same square. It was a huge and imposing place full of beautiful paintings, gorgeous stained glass windows, a strong echo and religious chants in the background. Every time I went there I felt like everything outside disappeared completely and the only thing that mattered at that moment was my relationship with the Lord. I had a very good relationship with the priest of the church and unlike what the commies and fedora atheists usually say about them, the priest of that church used to chat with me and gave me some things like Jesus stickers or a figure of the Virgin Mary that glowed in the dark.

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That is why every time I see news about commiesfags and feminists vandalizing churches and harassing priests I get very sad. I feel that many of the reasons for the decline of the west is because little by little we have been leaving aside the Christian values that God and Christianity imposed on us. Even if you are not very religious, I am sure that you must agree with what I am saying.

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I find the arguments satisfying. I don't believe in an eternal torture chamber for non believers anymore. I don't know what the reality is, but I'm not going to keep believing in an objectively flawed interpretation for lack of a replacement.
I used to be confused about what happens to the unrepentant until I attended a lecture given by a mortalist. The simplest explanation is that everything corrupted/sinful is mortal. The spiritual is just as corrupted as the physical and therefore just as mortal. There's no holding cell for the souls if sinners because none of us are immortal to begin with. The faithful are resurrected to vindication and blissful immortality, and the unrepentant are resurrected to get told they suck and then burn away into nothingness.
 
I still remember how I learned Jesus died. I had a substitute teacher and as I was walking out the door past her.... I realized she had a necklace of a dead body! And someone told me that was Jesus. But I didn't know Jesus rose from the grave until I was 16 or 17. I don't remember how I learned- I think from reading Matthew, straight-up lol.
 
My younger sister died young last night. I'm in so much pain, my family is mourning hard. It isn't fair or right, but I'm comforted knowing she is perfectly healed in heaven. I've been afraid of dying for years, I've had panic attacks about it almost every night.

My sister had a heart attack, lived for a week after and got out of the hospital and was well enough to see me get baptized, then had another heart attack suddenly and quietly at home. I feel like she was kept around just long enough to watch me devote myself to God, and all of this makes me no longer afraid of death.

I will no longer fear death, because my sister is there. My lord Jesus is with her, and my grandmother, and all of the dear friends I've lost. I can't wait to join them.

I'm sorry for PLing, I'm sorry for posting about this on Kiwi Farms of all places, I just don't know what to do with myself. I've never felt such a profound heartbreak before.

Please, fellow Christian Kiwis, pray for my family and for my little sister in Heaven. Please.
 
"Women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak but should be subordinate, as the law also says." -1st Corinthians 14:34.

Unless she's going to deliver her sermon in sign language it's hard to adhere to 1st Corinthians by ordaining women.
Paul says women shouldn’t be allowed to do a lot of things; but I have never seen a Christian woman insist on covering her hair because of 1 Timothy, can’t think of a single sect that hold women to the standards Paul outlines (because they’re really fucking archaic, bro) and insisting on a literalist approach to Pauline Epistle is a low IQ take anyway.

Anyway Paul’s letters are almost always advice in response to a problem, and in 1 Corithians this problem is intra-church discord, too many leaders, not enough followers. So Paul’s advice about how women should act needs to be interpreted through that context.
 
I have never seen a Christian woman insist on covering her hair because of 1 Timothy
Have you ever been to Eastern Europe? Church veiling was actually fairly common up until the late nineteenth century for most sects, even today some devout Catholic and Eastern/Oriental Orthodox women do so, even some protestant sects like the Amish and the Moravians

(because they’re really fucking archaic, bro)
That's quite an alarming stance to take, just because scripture is two thousand years old it doesn't mean we have the ability to pick and chose which elements, particularity those of the New Testament, we would like to follow. I'm unaware of any passages in the Bible where Jesus said, 'After 1,500 years you can stop following this rule', or 'After 2,000 years this commandment expires'. Of course I'm being a bit rhetorical but you get the idea.

Another thing to keep in mind is that this wasn't Paul spouting hatred against women or saying women had no place in Christianity, Paul and the early Christians recognized women's importance in helping to spread Jesus's message. Paul himself commended Phoebe for her outstanding work as a deaconess (Romans 16:1). In Pliny the Younger's letter to Emperor Trajan in 112 AD he even recounts having captured and torturing two female slaves who he described as "deaconesses" of the Christian's Church (incidentally he admits the two deaconesses held out and refused to break under his torture), so you can see the Early Church recognized women's important role in the faith, they just didn't think women were best suited for this one job. It's not that the Bible is restricting women or telling them they're lesser, it's just saying we each have different roles and responsibilities. Remember while women are told in 1st Timothy to cover their heads when praying men are also told to do something while praying (remove their head coverings)
 
asking out of pure curiosity do Catholics accept non-communion takers at Mass ? I was baptized as an infant but didnt really understand anything about religion as a kid, kind of just falling out of the Church as a teenager, I somewhat identify as Christian now however I don't follow any particular denomination at the moment,
 
asking out of pure curiosity do Catholics accept non-communion takers at Mass ? I was baptized as an infant but didnt really understand anything about religion as a kid, kind of just falling out of the Church as a teenager, I somewhat identify as Christian now however I don't follow any particular denomination at the moment,
Anyone can go to mass. You just need to be Catholic to partake in the Holy Eucharist. Same thing in Orthodoxy.

For what it's worth, my experience is Orthodoxy tends to be more friendly. After mass in every Catholic church I've been to everyone rushes to leave. After liturgy in every Orthodox church I've been to there's a fellowship hour that's usually very welcoming of new faces. No pressure though :)
 
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