Night Vision NVG / Thermal

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Yours Truly 2095 said:
Good to know. I've heard good things myself in my circle. I've also seen stainless steel barrel very affordable PSA AR-10s shooting sub moa with my own eyes, but then people online have so many different experiences with every single companies AR-10 I feel. Personally I wouldn't recommend them for a first rifle at all. I just know Josh is concerned about penetrating level 4 armor based on what he's said previously in my memory. It's just going to be pig expensive to feed especially for a new shooter learning fundamentals. But anyways this isn't the topic of this thread.
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Forget the expense. Consider point of use.

Everyone in here knows a properly kitted carbine and a bump mounted unit will get him way more milage than a thermal scope.
 
Boney said:
Forget the expense. Consider point of use.

Everyone in here knows a properly kitted carbine and a bump mounted unit will get him way more milage than a thermal scope.
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Mileage for what exactly? I'm always game for people to be as kitted up as they can but nulls uses case of defending a seemingly elevated and fortified position seems like the perfect cases for a weapon mounted thermal.
 
Stackbodiesbro said:
Mileage for what exactly? I'm always game for people to be as kitted up as they can but nulls uses case of defending a seemingly elevated and fortified position seems like the perfect cases for a weapon mounted thermal.
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Is it? Staying clicked into a single narrow field of view while people are maneuvering on you seems like a great way to get boxed by fires and rushed. Lets not forget that in order to not die to multiple return fires he needs to fire from deep inside the room, further restricting what he can see. There is a reason the war footage you see of thermals is snipers, usually in teams, from far away, in static positions.

My understanding is Josh wants to be prepared for an utterly disasterous scenario where the most dangerous and well equiped individuals attack him. Hes even mentioned armored vehicle considerations. One man army is a losing proposition 10/10 times in any fight where the attackers aren't funneled to him. And that should be the plan. Just like for anyone else. If the house is an untennable position, and he has early enough detection to make it happen, he needs to get the hell out of there.

Now, give Jersh another guy or two on his team and it would be a powerful asset. Or, enough time actually using this shit to have smooth workflow with all his gear, and it stops being a flase-confidence liability.
 
Boney said:
Is it? Staying clicked into a single narrow field of view while people are maneuvering on you seems like a great way to get boxed by fires and rushed. Lets not forget that in order to not die to multiple return fires he needs to fire from deep inside the room, further restricting what he can see. There is a reason the war footage you see of thermals is snipers, usually in teams, from far away, in static positions.

My understanding is Josh wants to be prepared for an utterly disasterous scenario where the most dangerous and well equiped individuals attack him. Hes even mentioned armored vehicle considerations. One man army is a losing proposition 10/10 times in any fight where the attackers aren't funneled to him. And that should be the plan. Just like for anyone else. If the house is an untennable position, and he has early enough detection to make it happen, he needs to get the hell out of there.

Now, give Jersh another guy or two on his team and it would be a powerful asset. Or, enough time actually using this shit to have smooth workflow with all his gear, and it stops being a flase-confidence liability.
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That's a hell of a scenario. Might as well also buy a CIWS incase the troon death squad shows up with a JDAM too. You think null or realistically anyone for that matter is going to be in let alone survive some grand seige you've watched too many action movies.

Trust me I of all people understand the importance of a proper set up but if we're being completely realistic the most likely scenarios null is likely to see is some crazed retard showing up on his property. And a thermal can have some use for 24 hours a day.

I've always been to to prepare in order of likelihood so before he even gets to NVGs and thermals he needs to get a proper rifle then plates/carrier medical kit then become proficient with them. Then start to dable with nods.
 
Stackbodiesbro said:
I've always been to to prepare in order of likelihood so before he even gets to NVGs and thermals he needs to get a proper rifle then plates/carrier medical kit then become proficient with them. Then start to dable with nods.
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You and I are on exactly the same page here. My post was meant to be more about jumping the gun on gear you aren't equiped/practiced with then it is specifcally poopooing a thermal. Not sure I succeeded in that. Rifle thermal is no good if you don't know how to employ it.

Basic home defense tactics > bigger gun, more expensive toys.

He really needs to reign in his expectations of what he can do with some new guns and toys and focus on being able to deal with one badguy before he can do anything else.
 
Boney said:
Forget the expense. Consider point of use.

Everyone in here knows a properly kitted carbine and a bump mounted unit will get him way more milage than a thermal scope.
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I know, but I also know some people have to live and learn when dead set on things. I fully agree with that your assessment and anyone I've ever known who shoots under NV and thermal almost for a living would to. A 5.56 carbine, suppressor, PVS14, IR and white light, and a good NV optic for light transmission is the way to go. And that's still a lot for a new gun owner to just jump into all at once. Anything else is really going to end up being sold off and regret or not ever actually trained with at all and left sitting.

Same with the recording, all your shots and stuff on camera. I personally think that's a bad idea in the method he aims for, but that's just me. I think that could all be done with hardwired local cameras, but that's really dependent on you actually owning your property and not renting. In a stressful situation somebody being able to relentlessly watch back what happened Can end up being a bad thing for you or a good thing for you. It's a gamble. If it would go to jury having a fps video game type shoot camera view of killing someone could leave a bad taste.
 
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Yours Truly 2095 said:
I know, but I also know some people have to live and learn when dead set on things. I fully agree with that your assessment and anyone I've ever known who shoots under NV and thermal almost for a living would to. A 5.56 carbine, suppressor, PVS14, IR and white light, and a good NV optic for light transmission is the way to go. And that's still a lot for a new gun owner to just jump into all at once. Anything else is really going to end up being sold off and regret or not ever actually trained with at all and left sitting.

Same with the recording, all your shots and stuff on camera. I personally think that's a bad idea in the method he aims for, but that's just me. I think that could all be done with hardwired local cameras, but that's really dependent on you actually owning your property and not renting. In a stressful situation somebody being able to relentlessly watch back what happened Can end up being a bad thing for you or a good thing for you. It's a gamble. If it would go to jury having a fps video game type shoot camera view of killing someone could leave a bad taste.
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Null's personal beliefs with the government may prohibited him from owning NFA items legally. And I am one of the few people that don't think you should have to buy a pvs-14 first but other than that I agree.

If you buy an articulating bino and get proper training and actually practice with them yourself, you can very easily forgo the in between step of a monocular if you know you will eventually get a bino set up.
 
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Stackbodiesbro said:
Null's personal beliefs with the government may prohibited him from owning NFA items legally. And I am one of the few people that don't think you should have to buy a pvs-14 first but other than that I agree.

If you buy an articulating bino and get proper training and practice use them yourself, you can very easily forgo the in between step of a monocular if you know you will eventually get a bino set up.
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Well Jersh needs to start fully throwing around how great the new hearing protection act is and drum up some support and awareness on his hit podcast that gets me through work 😘
 
Stackbodiesbro said:
If you buy an articulating bino and get proper training and practice use them yourself, you can very easily forgo the in between step of a monocular if you know you will eventually get a bino set up.
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I have no time with Binos, but skipping the inbetween steps makes sense when you've got qualified instructors or unlimited funds/range time for sure.

I'm assuming Null can only dedicate a hobby level of training to this a week and is going to be doing 101 type courses to learn.

There is some value in building a base of knowledge, then grabbing the high end stuff with an educated opinion on features you need in this case.
 
Stackbodiesbro said:
Snip.
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Null should see if there are any people that would be willing to let him test out a pvs-14 or a range that rents them out

for the amount of money that buying a white phosphor pvs 14 costs you could get an rh-25 on sale.
 
AStupidMonkey said:
Slightly OT, but keep in mind: the binoculars are going to effect/limit the optics you can effectively use, or where and how to mount them.

This guy goes into way more autistic detail, while also being more eloquent than a retarded monke.

But TL;DR; be mindful of the extra scope relief you're going to need with binocs + optics.
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I'm personally a fan of the unity mounting system for passive aiming with nvgs.

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It gives you plenty of clearance even with a magnifier.
 
Stackbodiesbro said:
I'm personally a fan of the unity mounting system for passive aiming with nvgs.

View attachment 6927236 View attachment 6927239

It gives you plenty of clearance even with a magnifier.
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Another thing to be mindful of if red-dotting: The distance from your eye should factor into the MOA (dot size) you select.

A nice fat dot is great for a pistol, because you're generally going to be holding it at arm's-length while aiming/firing. But if it's going to be on the back-end of your rifle, you'll want to go smaller, because it's RIGHT THERE.

But if you're going to be mounting the dot farther down the gun, you might go more medium. (about 5 MOA by my reckoning.)

Personally, I like a 6-MOA for pistol, and 4-MOA for rear-rifle. But YMMV.

edit: and now that I think of it, maybe you can just subtract the length of the head-mounted optics from the equation entirely? NVG bros pls respond!
 
AStupidMonkey said:
But if you're going to be mounting the dot farther down the gun, you might go more medium. (about 5 MOA by my reckoning.)

Personally, I like a 6-MOA for pistol, and 4-MOA for rear-rifle. But YMMV.

edit: and now that I think of it, maybe you can just subtract the length of the head-mounted optics from the equation entirely? NVG bros pls respond!
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Even on a Night vision setting the light amplification will make a 2moa dot blume a little. 2 MOA is pretty much standard even when it's a little forward mounted.
 
Stackbodiesbro said:
Even on a Night vision setting the light amplification will make a 2moa dot blume a little. 2 MOA is pretty much standard even when it's a little forward mounted.
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And, just to add for @Null's general edifaction, there are red dots that have 1-2 settings specifically for use with NVG's, that would appear invisible or virtually invisible to the naked eye. In which case you could go larger.
 
Stackbodiesbro said:
there are a decent amount of underspec tubes created that don't meet contract specifications that need to go somewhere.
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yeah, the trash. we mastered the CRT in the 70s, the fact that speccd tubes have such a high qc fail rate is kinda baffling...
then again the military probably doesn't need more than a thousand or so a month if that

one day digital night vision will reign supreme. might not be soon at all, but when it does I'll be first in line to get my hands on it if I'm still alive.
 
Stackbodiesbro said:
I'm personally a fan of the unity mounting system for passive aiming with nvgs.

It gives you plenty of clearance even with a magnifier.
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I dunno man. Have you used a Unity FTC magnifier mount while passive aiming? I've found it just gets in the way. There's a reason Nick Chen removed it for his photo. Personally I prefer lower 1/3rd height and just removing the magnifier when shooting with nods. Maybe it isnt optimal for night shooting but it is for day shooting, which is 95% of what I'm training at anyways.
 
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