Night Vision NVG / Thermal

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Lead Lizard said:
I dunno man. Have you used a Unity FTC magnifier mount while passive aiming? I've found it just gets in the way. There's a reason Nick Chen removed it for his photo.
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I've dont it. Its not optimal but not difficult either. But it's QD for a reason, you can take it off for night shooting. I'm also a fan of the integrated rear sight in the unity mount.

Personally I leave it off my rifle most of the time and mostly shoot with just my aimpoint but that's just me.
 
I always get a kick out of the anti optics riser crowd. Risers are a flat improvement for just about any POU I can think of and basically manditory for NVGs.
 
You can get a good Gen 3 nvg for $2k if you can find a good deal on a green phosphor tube and put it inside cheap pvs14 kit. Most of the green phos tubes are contract overruns or old mil surplus when the US military switched to white phos tubes.

 

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What's the best way to genuinely get into NV without breaking the bank? I know just about every digital unit is dogshit, but I'm sick of redditors and youtubers telling me that the "absolute bottom-tier cheapest possible option that still gets the job done" is a brand-new american-made Gen3 WP setup for $5K.
I've seen some used Gen2 stuff here and there for sub-1.5K, but is the risk not worth it?

It also appears that ADNV is making THE best digital units out there: $1.2K on alibaba (i know it's chinkshit but american companies won't sell cheap NVDs), sub-10ms latency, a wider spectral range (400-1100nm vs. 500-900 for analog), no risk of burning out a tube... is this the best bet for a non-used budget NV setup? This review seems to show that it's comparable to gen2:
 
PSA: Don't buy any thermal imaging products from AGM Global Vision.
Nearly all of their thermal imaging scopes and binoculars are continuously broadcasting a 2.4 GHz WiFi carrier. This is a marketed feature for "connecting to their smartphone app" but is a blatant safety risk. Not only is the intended function of it insecure, in a threat aware environment you may as well be strapping loudspeaker to yourself. Signals often travel farther than they should especially when you don't want them to.

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Every single last one of their products contains an onboard WiFi module. This includes product lines like the Rattler, Clarion, and Taipan devices. I'm going through the list of their products and I don't think there is a single one that doesn't have a built-in RF transceiver. While this seems to be a trend for digital optics, AGM is a particularly bad offender.

RACLV36 (Rattler V2):​

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The RF Transceiver chip here is a RTL8189ES-VB-CG. It never turns off. Even if you desoldered this completely you now no longer have a functioning board. Desoldering the WiFi antenna also wouldn't be sufficient to prevent unintentional RF leakage.

AGM ReachIR LRF 35-640
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SHCR2308001714AT | AGM Secutor LRF 50-384
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SHCR2308001712AT | AGM Taipan TM10-256i
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Same RF module as the Rattler product line.
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If you're wondering WTF this may even be for in a thermal rifle scope, the marketing description is for their smartphone app "AGM Connect" (archive)

If you thought the literal hardware backdoor was bad, the the app itself is collecting your:
  • Mobile phone model, browser type, IMEI, operating system version
  • Hardware address
  • Software version
  • IP address
  • Network access mode/type
  • Operation logs
  • Location-related information
When I have some free time I will be unpacking the firmware blob for the devices themselves to see what else is going on. Unsuprisingly, the app itself (a Chromium wrapper) is the spawn of the botnet and tries to phone home every 5 seconds.

Don't buy any digital optic that has a RF device in it. It will get you killed. It has already gotten people killed.

thx
 
if I wanted to buy one I'd just get an ATN PVS-14 Gen 2+
aim to spend around 2,000 - 3,000. (You can buy one new from ATN in that price range and you wont be gambling with a bad tube).
(I'll let someone else sell the Gen3s. They are better, but not enough that I'd pay significantly more or gamble on a used tube when Gen2+ works fine.)
2 AA battery housing is better than 1 AA battery housing.
green or white phosphorous doesn't really matter that much, I prefer the green, most people like the white.
there are ways to set them up paired with a magnification optic on a rifle, but I've never seen it done well. if you're using a NVD as part of a weapons system you'll most likely be using an IR laser pointer mounted to a rifle/pistol and its still not great because if you're focusing it close enough to see where you're moving then you're not planning on shooting very far but it does work, so you want the one with the IR function.
the PVS-7s are still monocular (single image intensifier tube), they just have 2 viewing lenses showing you the same picture. these aren't great, but they're cheaper than 14s used and its better than nothing.
dual monocular setups (dual PVS-14s) are good, but not for the reason people think (depth perception), they're good because you can have 2 different focal settings (1 farther, 1 nearer). having 1 eye in natural light is better imo.

they're great for taking a girl on a date and looking at the stars.
 
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On the thermal front, I'm sure the price is about to skyrocket due to the tariffs but I impulse bought a Holosun DRS-TH last year and fell in love with it. It's not meant to be run as a substitute to a dedicated thermal (though it's better for that purpose than no thermal), but for what it does it's incredibly cool and just as effective as you'd think despite latency being a little on the high side.
 
888Flux said:
It never turns off. Even if you desoldered this completely you now no longer have a functioning board.
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What's the situation stopping this from being desoldered? It'd be awesome if they intentionally made this WiFi chip a vital and integral part of the circuit. It's cool that a thermal scope (something with already notoriously bad battery life) is also perpetually running WiFi, even if it's negligible on drain, is wholly unnecessary.
888Flux said:
When I have some free time I will be unpacking the firmware blob for the devices themselves to see what else is going on. Unsuprisingly, the app itself (a Chromium wrapper) is the spawn of the botnet and tries to phone home every 5 seconds.
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I find this interesting. I'm curious as to which are the best competition models that lack this "feature", would certainly make a good addition to this thread since AGM was pretty cheap for entry and I think a lot of models of "affordable" thermals have WiFi capabilities.
 
Does anyone else own or have any questions about the Hoplite DNV-9? They're pretty fun for the price point when it comes down to digital night vision.
 
Not to detract from what anyone has said here, if cheap NVGs or thermals are for larping or for the cool factor or even just close to medium range hunting (50 to 150 yards) then disregard.
NVGs are a force multiplier, if opfor doesn't have NVG's then you will dominate them in the night. light discipline or lack of is a death sentence for anyone or any group if opfor has NVGs.
If by chance opfor has NVGs also, their IR illuminators turn in to a beacon and vise versa.
Lesson, know your enemy.
That being said.
Thermal or hybrid thermal is a force even those that posses NVGs should fear. With the newer gen thermals, everything is a beacon. IR illumintion is a beacon , your body heat is visible, your recent foot prints are visible. Your NVGs put off heat and can be seen with thermal.
Thermals can be used in the day time as well as the night time.
Thermals are the perfect dream wrapped in a nightmare.
 
Hyperbolic Steroids said:
would certainly make a good addition to this thread since AGM was pretty cheap for entry and I think a lot of models of "affordable" thermals have WiFi capabilities.
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The Sidekick 640/320 or FLIR PTQ136 (Breach)
neither have onboard radios, the Sidekick 640/320 is probably the best helmet mounted thermal on a budget you can get but some other people in this thread might have recommendations.

Hyperbolic Steroids said:
What's the situation stopping this from being desoldered? It'd be awesome if they intentionally made this WiFi chip a vital and integral part of the circuit
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it most likely is. for the certification photos notice that there are jagged edges on the PCB.

Hyperbolic Steroids said:
It's cool that a thermal scope (something with already notoriously bad battery life) is also perpetually running WiFi, even if it's negligible on drain, is wholly unnecessary.
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the Realtek chip they went with has low power consumption relative to the device but still I agree. It's either intentionally malicious or a marketing gimmick like the rest of the IoT nonsense that is crammed into every device under the sun.
 
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Boney said:
I always get a kick out of the anti optics riser crowd. Risers are a flat improvement for just about any POU I can think of and basically manditory for NVGs.
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No need to run any higher than necessary for your own ergonomics. I find 1.93 the best height for me.

Unity riser is probably too high for most people. You are giving up contact with the rifle unless you put a cheek riser on the gun to match.

The funny thing about the TFB picture is he still doesn’t have the stock fully contacting his body even with the riser.
 
Pretend To Imagine said:
No need to run any higher than necessary for your own ergonomics. I find 1.93 the best height for me.

Unity riser is probably too high for most people. You are giving up contact with the rifle unless you put a cheek riser on the gun to match.

The funny thing about the TFB picture is he still doesn’t have the stock fully contacting his body even with the riser.
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Speaking of risers, I have a question that is specific to an ACOG/RMR combo. With my helmet/headset/NODs on, the RMR is at the perfect height for passive aiming. However, when I need to aim with my ACOG with just the helmet and headset on, it is near impossible to get my head down low enough and close enough to aim effectively through the ACOG. Anyone with a similar set up that has a solution? I have looked at risers, but I feel like that would put the RMR a bit too high up. I run an ops core with peltor 3s, for reference.
 
To be blunt a fiber optic ACOG/RMR combo sucks with a helmet due to rear placement of the RMR, the best option IMO if you want to stay with an ACOG is to get ether a TA02 or TA110, those are the LED versions and have forward mounting points for MRDS in place of the fiber optic. If you stick with what you have now I'd look at the KRAM risers, they have a few heights to choose and also cantilever the ACOG back closer to your eye.
 
Here's a 3D printable storage cover / day cap for the PVS-14 objective lens and rear eyepiece
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The best material to print in is TPU, but PLA with a low infill % for some flexibility will also work if you don't have any TPU.

Going to play around with printing some apertures next
 

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