Marvel Cinematic Universe

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xXx: State of the Union said:
It helps that, according to David Ayer himself as well as a lot of the actors at least, the edit ruined and completely changed the film from how it was written and shot.

But I guess we'll always just have to take his word at that, since I hear WB is dead set on never releasing "his cut" and David Ayer has told everyone he doesn't care anymore.
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Get the rope Macaulay! said:
i know Ayer can't/won't give us plot beats which is odd because thats sort of 99% of the thing people whine about when it comes to the film. but seeing his other films i have a hard time believing it still wouldn't be considered a shitty movie. Ayer just gave WB a much darker less fun movie, at least the cut we got was very trashy and fun in the way people sort of expected and wanted.

Yeah its obnoxious but there are way more "yo bros" types that buy tickets to this shit than not. Ayer's cut would still have all the flaws of this one only without even the fun either. it would be a rough slog like Megapolis.
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xXx: State of the Union said:
I think they've admitted at this point that the plot is virtually the same, it's just that they cut a lot of background stuff at the start and they redid the ending fight.

So it makes me wonder how it was so "ruined" so much. It sucks we'll probably never know how true it is since I doubt James Gunn would want it to overshadow his shit.
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I know this is kinda off topic here in this thread but this video here goes into the backstory and happenings of Suicide Squad. The guy also covers a lot of cancelled movies, like Snyder's Justice League 2 & 3, as well as the many changes made to a lot of the MCU movies like Iron Man 2 and Doctor Strange MOM.
 
I remember somebody, probably a music theory youtuber, pointing out that Ayer's Suicide Squad doesn't have a soundtrack so much as it has a mixtape, with half a dozen popular songs featured in the first ten minutes, which do a lot of the legwork in terms of character exposition by sheer cultural association. Has anyone spoken on whether that was an Ayer choice or something done in spite of him?
 
Ayer didn't understand the suicide squad, and it could be argued Gunn didn't either. However, Gunn made a fun movie.

Upcoming Gunn Movie sperging:

I'm still trying to wrap my head around Gunn making an Authority movie. I have no idea how the fuck he plans to do that. If he's going to adapt that Superman And The Authority book. I hope he tosses the lamest parts(half the team sucks, and at one point Steels' niece spends time fighting online trolls). I'd prefer he adapt some of the first twelve issues of the original series, but that can't possibly fit into a DC universe unless it's off in it's own universe first, and at the end they're shunted into the existing DCEU.

The Authority is usually described by lazy idiots as A JUSTICE LEAGUE THAT KILLS, but they're just the obvious result of a universe that tried corporate, governmental, even anarchic superteams and found them all wanting. The UN backed supermen of Stormwatch were taken out by Xenomorphs and the remnants of that team (that the UN no longer wanted to pay for) went out recruiting and started their own group with it's own goals and continent-levelling powersets. They kill because they've tried saving the day without that, and doing so always resulted in shitbags coming back to cause trouble once more. They tried following governmental/duly elected direction, and it always ended up with red tape and nonsense preventing real action with true impact.

And how can that possibly be allowed in a universe where Superman, the Justice Society, The Justice League, The Titans, Suicide Squad, DEO, Argus, Checkmate, etc exist?

Authority worked because they were the most powerful beings on their earth, barring The Four, Mr Majestic, and Planetary. The Wildcats couldn't handle them, the following Stormwatch teams had to avoid open conflict with them, Gen13 never tried to face them, Wetworks had their own problems with the night tribes to deal with. The governments of their time tried to deal with them and were shown they had to establish a detente and let them do their thing.

Dumping the original team into the DCEU would be a strange situation mirroring The Elite from that superman story What's So Funny About Truth, Justice And The American Way?, which could be interesting, but apparently The Engineer will be in the coming Superman movie so... maybe the Authority movie will be about the original team set in a previous era? Maybe it'll be current and set in the DCEU proper?



With regard to Thunderbolts, it could be entertaining, but the jokes in the trailer make me think it'll just be the same silly bullshit we've come to expect from Marvel. And it seems like the team has a strange overabundance of Supersoldiers in Bucky, Red Guardian, USAgent, and White Widow. I guess Taskmaster counts as well, but I'm not sure if they're bothered with Tony Masters' powerset where he can mimic any moves he observes perfectly, minus things like beyond human speed and strength.
 
Huge cope on my part, but in an age where a film like Transformers One can have a truly awful first trailer and end up nor just good but apparently great, I'm willing to wait and see about Thunderbolts.

It'll live or die by how far they're willing to let these characters push the limit of what a "hero" is.
 
Prehistoric Jazz said:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around Gunn making an Authority movie
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I cannot see an Authority movie being made today that doesn't just try to ape The Boys.

Your post did give me a nice trip through memory line. I did enjoy Authority in my edgier years though I think the original run with Jenny Sparks was probably the most solid. Rest of the series felt to keen on just going for shock factor (though I do remember fondly the battle with the old doctor, just the Doctor in general always fascinated me, well that and how Hawksmore worked) but it was definitely a ride and something I certainly didn't see much of in those years. I also remember it's release schedule was kind of a mess, mostly blame the Quitely era for that.

Also reminded me of Planetary which I really should reread (forgot about the four and their role in it till I did some searches). Mr Majestic I never read, though going through a wiki mostly seems to give me Miracleman vibes.

I wasn't aware that got smooshed into DC which I find depressing. Though it should have been obvious since now that I think about it, I did see Grifter in a clip of a Batman movie... and I agree that wildstorm and DC characters should be kept firmly separated. Authority makes 0 sense in a world with the Justice League.
 
I agree that the first 12 issues were the best, they had some interesting appearances and a couple good runs later. Later stuff from Millar was gross, the best part of the early stuff was the moments of wonder Ellis gave it. Hawksmoore went from a pacifist on the Stormwatch team to a no-nonsense killer right after the Changers arc, and his time on the Authority just made him more comfortable with ending lives. The only good part of the Millar run was the Quitely art, really.

Planetary is one of the best comic books ever written, I loved every issue and the crossover with Batman was amazing. RIP Cassaday.

Mr Majestic was Superman by way of Worf; he was a pragmatic warrior with the silver age powers of the man of steel, and his crossover into the DC universe wasn't bad, tho quite predictable. I like that he took Frances' airforce away when they tried to take him out of the sky, and only handed back Green Lanterns' ring when Superman met him for pancakes.

Miracleman was an amazing comic, I still reread it every so often. We'll never see its' like again.

I don't mind crossovers if everyone behaves the way they should given what they're experiencing. Captain Atom: Armageddon is a really good Wildstorm/DC mixup.

I concur, the Authority could never come to be in a world that has Superman; they wouldn't be needed or bother to form.
 
Project Cadmus made a shit ton of mutants, had Dubbilex and The Guardian helping out, and seemed to veer between trying to help people with mad science and running disturbing shadowops that produced deformed sewer dwellers. The Authority might shut that shit down hard, or it might act like they did with Jacob Krigstein and provide them with new standards to follow and resources to help those they could. Depends on who's writing and how much harm they've caused overall.
 
Another fandom menance type seems more benevolent than most with Agatha: "They call me Chato." His take basically is not that it's good, but that for a sitcom type show, it's fine and serviceable. What shocked me the most is that he said he would've greenlit the show. But to be fair, he judged it as a random network show, not a show based on a superhero franchise consumed mostly by men.

The consensus, from anti-woke reviewers, those that actually bothered to watch it mind you, seems to be so far that the issue isn't that it's bad, but that it's laser focused at middle-aged wine moms that are too much into Zodiac signs.

It might have been an average show for the CW. But for a multibillion-dollar franchise, Agatha was a terrible choice. Even Marvel comics were smart enough to de-age canon Agatha. and, also, make a teen version of her because, even woke marvel can see the writting in the wall that their audience isn't into middle aged, and geriatric witches.

Agatha's show also recently threw a bone at MCU fanboys by finally namedropping Mephisto to bait them to watch it, because they couldn't shut up about him when Wandavision was airing.
 
starborn427614 said:
It'll live or die by how far they're willing to let these characters push the limit of what a "hero" is.
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Best case, it'll be like the Guardians. Good luck if they can replicate that.

But it's also worse case because that's the most they can do in order of characterization, the type of Redditor humor they think it's funny but it's in fact safe for meme material. They are unable to make masculine characters who act like adult men, but rather clones of TBBT characters, with quirky takes too.
 
starborn427614 said:
It'll live or die by how far they're willing to let these characters push the limit of what a "hero" is.
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It's gonna die, then. The loss of Zemo took with it any chance of being good. Notwithstanding the fact that it severed the one tenuous thread back to the Thunderbolts of the comics, it also eliminated the strongest personality from the team: now we're just left with two flavors, stoic deadpan badass (does Taskmistress even get lines?) and quippy irreverent badass. Also, who's actually in charge here?

That was something that defined the original comics: Zemo, despite being the least powerful member of the group, was also in charge by force of personality and tactical thinking abilities (ironically setting him up for a "dark" Captain America role that he only briefly occupied.) Here you have a team of un- or mildly-powered yahoos with very similar skillsets and no clear reason to even work together. What's the point of it all?
 
dick brain said:
n. Has anyone spoken on whether that was an Ayer choice or something done in spite of him?
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the editors made the changes.
Krokodil Overdose said:
Also, who's actually in charge here?
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did you not see the poster? its Miss Flo obviously. she's the most "heroic" character besides her daddy in the main group, everyone else is some flavor of villian. her role will be to tard rangle the quippers into working together.
 
Krokodil Overdose said:
It's gonna die, then. The loss of Zemo took with it any chance of being good. Notwithstanding the fact that it severed the one tenuous thread back to the Thunderbolts of the comics, it also eliminated the strongest personality from the team: now we're just left with two flavors, stoic deadpan badass (does Taskmistress even get lines?) and quippy irreverent badass. Also, who's actually in charge here?

That was something that defined the original comics: Zemo, despite being the least powerful member of the group, was also in charge by force of personality and tactical thinking abilities (ironically setting him up for a "dark" Captain America role that he only briefly occupied.) Here you have a team of un- or mildly-powered yahoos with very similar skillsets and no clear reason to even work together. What's the point of it all?
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Agreed. Even if you don't have Zemo since he's so different to his comic version in the filmverse, to properly set up the Thunderbolt setting and not just be a knockoff of the Suicide Squad is to set it during the snap. Probably the biggest problem is that the grand majority of marvel villains are shit/dead, so you can't really recycle many of them to form a movie only Thunderbolts that can still have some weight, only one I can think of is Michael Keaton who is alive and has some charisma to pull off a villain running a con that suddenly notices that he kind of likes it. One of the parts I most enjoyed of the original Thunderbolts run was how Songbird, Mach 5 and Atlas were genuinely enjoying being heroes and Mr Fixit and Nemo were still sticking to the plan but finding some enjoyment in the whole venture.

But the snarky brigade... how do they even do that?
 
Mystery Spy said:
Another fandom menance type seems more benevolent than most with Agatha: "They call me Chato." His take basically is not that it's good, but that for a sitcom type show, it's fine and serviceable. What shocked me the most is that he said he would've greenlit the show. But to be fair, he judged it as a random network show, not a show based on a superhero franchise consumed mostly by men.

The consensus, from anti-woke reviewers, those that actually bothered to watch it mind you, seems to be so far that the issue isn't that it's bad, but that it's laser focused at middle-aged wine moms that are too much into Zodiac signs.

It might have been an average show for the CW. But for a multibillion-dollar franchise, Agatha was a terrible choice. Even Marvel comics were smart enough to de-age canon Agatha. and, also, make a teen version of her because, even woke marvel can see the writting in the wall that their audience isn't into middle aged, and geriatric witches.

Agatha's show also recently threw a bone at MCU fanboys by finally namedropping Mephisto to bait them to watch it, because they couldn't shut up about him when Wandavision was airing.
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Yeah, Call Me Chato. I like his "aPauling News" vids. He does the same thing with a number of shows, and his reasoning seems sound, given that he's talking about idiots approving idiocy. He just doesn't really trade in hyperbole like a lot in this sphere.

The show is garbage, but what else was it ever going to be? The interviews with the cast all said it was the gayest marvel show ever made, as if that's some sort of endearing point.

I like Hahn and Plaza, both have been in things I found amusing in the past. But this show is radioactive enough to melt a japanese fisherman in his hospital bed. Marvel loves to take a third-tier character and make it into something directed at people that've never picked up a comic book in their life, that's their goal now. If Mephisto ever appears, they'll fuck him up too.

It's what they do.
 
Was going to post this in the Joker thread, but it wasn't really about that movie specifically. I don't care for the "capeshit movies that are embarrassed to be capeshit" genre. These movies exist in spite of their creators' actual artistic desires because the IP is necessary for marketing purposes. So, when the movie comes out, any resemblances to the IP might as well be coincidental.
Moreover, this genre started with the Nolan trilogy, which I talked about in a different thread. D.C. has been stuck in the gritty, ultrarealistic aesthetic for about 16 years now. Jay Bauman might have been a faggot about it, but he does raise the question of why people should watch these embarrassed capeshit movies when the inspirations that spawned them already exist.

It also makes shows aim for completely different audiences with no word of mouth from fans to get this ball rolling. Nerds were never wild about Agatha, but they expect them to tell middle-aged wine moms to tell them about how great Agatha is? Penguin works better because it's mostly nerdy men talking to less nerdy men, but embarrassed movies try to hide the source materials' unique aesthetics to make remakes of older media. The result is that it overwrites what those IPs are in the normie consciousness and now we have to implicitly accept that the embarrassed versions are the defining ones. Joker's no longer the guy that poisons the water supply so that he can copyright smiling fish, now he's got to be Arthur Fleck. Harley Quinn can't be a dysfunctional simp falling in love with a convict, she's got to be Deadpool now.

EDIT: lol Arthur Fleck gets stabbed by real Joker. I'm still annoyed at embarrassed superhero movies.
 
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Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
Was going to post this in the Joker thread, but it wasn't really about that movie specifically. I don't care for the "capeshit movies that are embarrassed to be capeshit" genre. These movies exist in spite of their creators' actual artistic desires because the IP is necessary for marketing purposes. So, when the movie comes out, any resemblances to the IP might as well be coincidental.
Moreover, this genre started with the Nolan trilogy, which I talked about in a different thread. D.C. has been stuck in the gritty, ultrarealistic aesthetic for about 16 years now. Jay Bauman might have been a faggot about it, but he does raise the question of why people should watch these embarrassed capeshit movies when the inspirations that spawned them already exist.

It also makes shows aim for completely different audiences with no word of mouth from fans to get this ball rolling. Nerds were never wild about Agatha, but they expect them to tell middle-aged wine moms to tell them about how great Agatha is? Penguin works better because it's mostly nerdy men talking to less nerdy men, but embarrassed movies try to hide the source materials' unique aesthetics to make remakes of older media. The result is that it overwrites what those IPs are in the normie consciousness and now we have to implicitly accept that the embarrassed versions are the defining ones. Joker's no longer the guy that poisons the water supply so that he can copyright smiling fish, now he's got to be Arthur Fleck. Harley Quinn can't be a dysfunctional simp falling in love with a convict, she's got to be Deadpool now.
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Harley's thing is about attempting to move on from an abusive relationship... while also being (trying to be) similar to said ex-boyfriend.
 
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