Marvel Cinematic Universe

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starborn427614 said:
It has its moments and I think Hela is a better/more entertaining antagonist than Gorr (thanks for that, Taika) but yeah it gets less and less engaging with each viewing. You can only lean so hard into the comedic angle without diluting the dramatic bits and Ragnarok definitely didn't manage its tone correctly. Guardians 2 almost fell into this trap, but unlike Ragnarok the only crime it's guilty of is loving some of its own jokes too much. The emotional core of the movie is rock solid regardless of the somewhat overbearing comedy.
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She's actually one of those few good things I'm talking about. In fact, Hela, Loki, & maybe Jeff Goldblum. It took me 3 years to realise that Karl Urban was in this too.
 
I think superheroes in general as a cultural force are spent for now. Sure, there are still projects in the works - many of which were launched while superheroes were still booming - but it's mostly over. I think the idea of superheroes as a big deal in culture has entered its twilight time. Most of the TV series will end up cancelled and a lot more superhero projects in development are going to be killed and they won't vanish completely. We'll maybe only see a small handful of big budget comic book movies a year. Like, when one or two would hit the theaters a year in the 00s. Will capes get a second wind, a revival? Maybe, but it'll be a long time before that happens. Blame the market being oversaturated, to an unprecedented amount, that sucked a lot of the fun, the magic and the other things that made superheroes "super" out of the genre. Too many greedy pigs at the trough.

Younger readers prefer manga to superhero comics, the later superhero-wave cape movies started hummed along more on hype and spectacle, and the TV shows are either underperforming or getting axed. Most of those shows, especially the CW series, look cheap and junky, even by CW standards. It's been a bloodbath over there at the CW, a lot of shows that most people didn't know were on, or still on, getting gutted. And frankly, good riddance to most of them, recycled concepts redone by the most fumble-fingered hacks.

The "wokeness" was not a cause of this, more of a sign of the decline as hucksters and snake-oil sellers and maybe some unhinged true believers too slithered their way into the business and meat headed executives at the publishers and studios were led to believe that woke was the wave of the future and they needed to catch it. People at the Big Two assured themselves and others that forced diversity, girlbossery, and swapping races and genders of characters and jamming in political rants would sell so many comics they'd have to set up new tree farms just to provide for all the paper they'd need to meet the demand. It would result in reaching new demographics, the clueless people were told, and told themselves. All it did was allow a lot of talentless hacks and toxic people to secure employment for a while, people who thought alienating the actual audience who pay money for comics and movies, etc. was a sound marketing tactic.
 
While I think that cape movies are in decline, that is not to say that they will disappear entirely. Westerns also suffered a decline, but Clint Eastwood and John Wayne were still able to do them well into the 70s. It's just that you couldn't put any schmoe off the street with a cowboy hat and a six shooter and expect big bucks. Similarly, there will still be cape movies making money in the coming years, because people know Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman. But the days of putting out a movie called "Ant-Man" or "The Eternals" and expecting 1 billion at the box office are probably behind us.
 
I think it's a mix of multiple factors

a) Western Syndrome - a huge saturation in a manner that was consumption based a la meme. They are aimed at young boys and the 18-35 category (will explain later) Saturation causes fatigue but this time it was accelerated due to how consumer-heavy Disney is.

b) As stated prior star power, it's an enormous pull in cinema because the directors are crap, it's the stars who are the pull. It's not like Chris Nolan or Tarintino who are visionaries, hell even Cameron. No stars = no pull and because of the exodus after phase 3, Disney hastened the lack of interest.

c) Covid - Covid changed how media was delivered and we kind of realized that most cinemas suck. There are exceptions, the Drafthouse is an example. They offer couples seating and to-table service at not really much of a premium. Disney offered streaming options and people liked it but what they did not love is going back to the cinema, which is a dated model.

d) Disney - I would say this is the biggest player, I have so many people in my life now who will not see Disney or Marvel films because of Disney. No one likes being talked down to or preached especially the target demographic. Because Marvel is associated with Disney it inherits the company's reception and contempt.

I can see a lot of cancelations coming, to be honest, I don't even think F4 is going to come out. All this will be in reaction though to Guardians if fails which I think is highly likely. The stars seem just done with the film entirely, When stars don't talk about their projects it usually means there are issues. I think a core reason is Star-Lord and Gamora got fucked over in the script for fucking Rocket, a CGI mammal. Why should you put effort to be fucked over by something that does not exist? Zoe especially was fucked over hard. That is all paint and prosthetics and I bet she said don't even bother to spot me. I read somewhere that the make up for her was like 6 - 8 hours, which is brutal. The Orc actors in LOTR said it was a tiring process and by the end of the day, you would just sleep. That bitch is hitting the gym probably every day and that is how you treat her. Easily like an 18 hour day for 6 months, sure she is getting paid but to be treated like shit when you have made them billions.
 
Chaotic Pizzaparty said:
b) As stated prior star power, it's an enormous pull in cinema because the directors are crap, it's the stars who are the pull. It's not like Chris Nolan or Tarintino who are visionaries, hell even Cameron. No stars = no pull and because of the exodus after phase 3, Disney hastened the lack of interest.
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I would say it's not star power that brings interest, but characters. RDJ and Chris Evans haven't found much success out of the MCU. It's Iron Man and Captain America who are the stars. Even ScarJo movies tend to bomb these days. There are only a precious few who will pull interest from an otherwise indifferent crowd , Keanu and Cruise being some names, but those are Gen Xers and Boomers. Millenials and Zoomers don't have movie stars.
 
Outside of die hards, I feel like the only thing super hero films have going for them is, funny enough, nostalgia now.

The only Marvel movie anyone I know talks about outside of the 2 die hard faggots who say they will never stop watching Marvel is the last Spider-Man movie, and mostly cause they were excited for Toby. This will be the only thing that might prop up Deadpool 3 with Hugh Jackman coming back.

Other than that, I don't think most will care until they inevitably bring back RDJ and Chris Evans for Secret Wars.
 
Chaotic Pizzaparty said:
c) Covid - Covid changed how media was delivered and we kind of realized that most cinemas suck. There are exceptions, the Drafthouse is an example. They offer couples seating and to-table service at not really much of a premium. Disney offered streaming options and people liked it but what they did not love is going back to the cinema, which is a dated model.
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I don’t think it’s the theatre as there are movies that still make a shit load of money in cinemas (Like No Way Home, Avatar 2, Top Gun Maverick, and the Mario movie have either made close to or over a billion dollars in the box office). But it’s pretty much a fact that Covid fucked up the MCU’s scheduling and probably contributed to the onslaught of content with no breaks as Disney wanted to catch up after covid ruined their bottom lining.
 
Doctor of Autism said:
I don’t think it’s the theatre as there are movies that still make a shit load of money in cinemas (Like No Way Home, Avatar 2, Top Gun Maverick, and the Mario movie have either made close to or over a billion dollars in the box office). But it’s pretty much a fact that Covid fucked up the MCU’s scheduling and probably contributed to the onslaught of content with no breaks as Disney wanted to catch up after covid ruined their bottom lining.
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Do you know what I agree the viewpoint was somewhat myopic of me. Hell, I should have dredged from personal memory when I went to see Mario on Monday and the theatre was packed. I think I am just astounded by how badly you can handle a brand that in the right hands prints money. Hell on my shift I actually rewatched No Way Home and bar nostalgia hits so differently because earlier in the shift I had Quantomania on. Fuck that movie on first watching is so rough. Btw No Way Home is pretty good on a second watching.
 
Doctor of Autism said:
I don’t think it’s the theatre as there are movies that still make a shit load of money in cinemas (Like No Way Home, Avatar 2, Top Gun Maverick, and the Mario movie have either made close to or over a billion dollars in the box office). But it’s pretty much a fact that Covid fucked up the MCU’s scheduling and probably contributed to the onslaught of content with no breaks as Disney wanted to catch up after covid ruined their bottom lining.
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A lot of theatres feel like they go through the business death spiral: Revenue is down, so maintenance is down, so quality is down, so people stop coming, so revenue is down...

The costs themselves are ridiculous, about 100% since 15 years ago. Hollywood engaging in studio Cannibalism also made films incredibly rare, like once every 3 months there's anything worthwhile.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
A lot of theatres feel like they go through the business death spiral: Revenue is down, so maintenance is down, so quality is down, so people stop coming, so revenue is down...

The costs themselves are ridiculous, about 100% since 15 years ago. Hollywood engaging in studio Cannibalism also made films incredibly rare, like once every 3 months there's anything worthwhile.
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Yeah like theatres are an enigma since they do look like they're dying but then get a resurgance, and so on and so forth. Theatres just feel too ingrained in society to die at the moment.
 
starborn427614 said:
It could be a box office bomb but still do well critically. I'd argue Marvel needs the latter more than the former right now.
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Problem is, if it's a critical success, that means they got rid of the guy who made it happen and went on to lead the competition.
 
SmugAutist said:
Problem is, if it's a critical success, that means they got rid of the guy who made it happen and went on to lead the competition.
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True. Marvel's definitely not in a great position right now.

Gaear Grimsrud said:
It's selfish, but I kinda hope Guardians 3 bombs just to see the absolute fucking cope that Moviebob would have to come up with.
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Pros: Movie Bob is irate.
Cons: A movie I've been looking forward to turns out to be mediocre

Another difficult decision...
 
starborn427614 said:
True. Marvel's definitely not in a great position right now.


Pros: Movie Bob is irate.
Cons: A movie I've been looking forward to turns out to be mediocre

Another difficult decision...
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I'm not even saying the movie has to be bad. Just that it bombs financially.

I think the movie being rotten would hurt Bob less than it bombing in theaters. Bob is always gushing about how popular Marvel is, and how they're the only movies everybody comes out to see. It gives him some kind of validation, he feels. So audiences not showing up for Guardians 3 would trouble him very badly.
 
Doctor of Autism said:
Yeah like theatres are an enigma since they do look like they're dying but then get a resurgance, and so on and so forth. Theatres just feel too ingrained in society to die at the moment.
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Even some of streaming services like Amazon and Apple+ are planning on releasing movies in the theater just so they can build audience awareness. Simply dumping things on a streaming platform is not bringing in the money they anticipated. Theaters may die out eventually but not until Hollywood figures out how to make money without them.
Gaear Grimsrud said:
It's selfish, but I kinda hope Guardians 3 bombs just to see the absolute fucking cope that Moviebob would have to come up with.
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Guardians 3 is the only upcoming Marvel movie I'm interested in seeing, but it would be amazing to see Moviebob try to blame its failure on the population of the Midwest.
 
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