🐱 Is "Dune" a white savior movie?

Is "Dune" a white savior movie? Denis Villeneuve responds

The director of the latest adaptation of Frank Herbert's classic novel has thoughts about the problematic trope

www.salon.com

After a long wait, we're finally going to get to see director Denis Villeneuve's adaptation of "Dune," Frank Herbert's 1965 sci-fi classic. Many people have tried to adapt "Dune" over the years but it's never quite worked. Is it finally time?

After a long wait, we’re finally going to get to see director Denis Villeneuve’s adaptation of Dune, Frank Herbert’s 1965 sci-fi classic. Many people have tried to adapt Dune over the years but it’s never quite worked. Is it finally time?



Dune is about Paul Atreides, the scion of a noble house, who arrives on the desert planet of Arrakis with his family and eventually becomes the leader of the native Fremen people. The novel is beloved by many, but it has its critics. Some have critiqued the story for being a white savior narrative. Briefly, a white savior story is a narrative that often pops up in film where the lives of characters of color are improved because of the intervention of a white person; movies like The Help, The Blind Side and Green Book are popular examples. Critics have long dinged the trope for soft-pedaling the history of race relations and for using Black people as props in stories essentially designed to make white people feel better about themselves.

Denis Villeneuve: Dune is “a criticism of the idea of a savior”​

Dune does fit the trope in some ways; Paul is literally a messianic figure from beyond the stars, and the Fremen are clearly inspired by Middle Eastern people. That said, Villeneuve thinks there’s some nuance to highlight, as he laid out in a roundtable interview with Collider:

It’s a very important question, and it’s why I thought that Dune is when, the way I’m reading it, relevant. It’s a critique of that. It’s not a celebration of a savior. It’s a criticism of the idea of a savior, of someone that will come and tell another population how to be, what to believe. It’s not a condemnation, but a criticism. So that’s the way I feel it’s relevant, and that can be seen as contemporary. And that’s what I would say about that. Frankly, it’s the opposite.

He has a point. Paul does indeed become a messiah of sorts for the Fremen people, but Frank Herbert was very suspicious of powerful leaders, and without spoiling things too much, things do not go well for Paul in the end, or for the movement he inspired. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to call the Dune series a critique of the whole idea of messiahs and saviors.

 

[Kheapathic]

It's a sci-fi Lawrence of Arabia. Something none of these bugmen have read, or watched since the movie is so fucking old.

 

[tehpope]

No. Because the sequels basically spells out being a messiah isnt all its cracked up to be. People kill in Paul's name and he becomes one of history's greatest murders.

 

[LurkTrawl]

Briefly, a white savior story is a narrative that often pops up in film where the lives of characters of color are improved because of the intervention of a white person; movies like The Help, The Blind Side and Green Book are popular examples. Critics have long dinged the trope for soft-pedaling the history of race relations and for using Black people as props in stories essentially designed to make white people feel better about themselves.

The utter lack of awareness these kind of people have would be comical if not so annoying.

 

[Kheapathic]

No. Because the sequels basically spells out being a messiah isnt all its cracked up to be. People kill in Paul's name and he becomes one of history's greatest murders.

Have any of the movies or other visual mediums ever reached the point where Paul is a psychic worm? Everyone and everything I see is always about him rising up to fight the house that's trying to end his family and end there. Like no one ever read the later books where he prophesizes and allows his own death and all the other shit. I don't care much for the books Herbert's son put out, but I don't know many people who actually got past the first two.

 

[tehpope]

Have any of the movies or other visual mediums ever reached the point where Paul is a psychic worm? Everyone and everything I see is always about him rising up to fight the house that's trying to end his family and end there. Like no one ever read the later books where he prophesizes and allows his own death and all the other shit. I don't care much for the books Herbert's son put out, but I don't know many people who actually got past the first two.

The Sci-Fi mini series did adapt books 2 and 3. Paul wasn't the worm, it was his son Leto II.

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

This wouldn’t be an issue if the lead female was a red head.

 

[From The Uncanny Valley]

The utter lack of awareness these kind of people have would be comical if not so annoying.

Critical thinking is not taught anymore.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

I haven't read the books nor I've watched the movie, but I've heard this story being mentioned a lot by friends and I have NEVER, in all years I've know of it, heard anyone saying this is a "white saviour" movie. Only fuckers who are constantly trying to feel offended by everything see the world in that way.

 

[queue-anon]

The only reason there's any hint of "white saviors" in this version is because Villeneuve diversified the cast, unlike Lynch's version which was all white (unless you feel like counting Jose Ferrer as "of color").

It makes sense for humans spread out across the galaxy thousands of years in the future to have a lot of racial diversity, especially on a desert planet, so I don't have any issue with diverse casting in this. (Although making Liet a woman is stupid since the Dune universe does not have equality between men and women. Women are consorts and witches, not scientists.) But it figures that any attempt at diverse casting just gets thrown back in creators' faces. They're unwittingly telling Hollywood to choose all-white casts to avoid controversy.

 

[Lasersuit Larry]

(Although making Liet a woman is stupid since the Dune universe does not have equality between men and women. Women are consorts and witches, not scientists.)

Even bigger, Herbert goes from the the mind witches of the Bene Gesserit trying to puppetmaster everyone by offering their members as a mail order bride service for the Great Houses, to Leto IIs all-female Fishspeaker army who were supposed to make male militaries obsolete by being based in a nurturing female mentality that would never cause atrocities (lol), right into the Honored Matres who used stolen Bene Gesserit secrets and sex-magic as a weapon of conquest; all soundly grabbing anyone who was looking for a cut-and-dry feminist message by the goozle-pipe before smacking them with their own idiocy.

There is no coherent racial theme in Dune, at least not by modern SJW standards. If anything, it's about the consequences of letting women out of the kitchen.

Edit: letters and names

 

[Drkinferno72]

Tis the white man's burden

 

[Blake Chortles]

I haven't read the books nor I've watched the movie, but I've heard this story being mentioned a lot by friends and I have NEVER, in all years I've know of it, heard anyone saying this is a "white saviour" movie. Only fuckers who are constantly trying to feel offended by everything see the world in that way.

It is white savior but its done well and theres nothing intrinsically wrong with the concept of a noble outsider coming in to lead a group of savages whove been in a rut for generations. But in the book they likely would have done it themselves eventually the Fremen aren’t to be fucked with.

 

[The-Patriarchy]

No, not a white savior story. It may appear to be one to some extent, but that's only one piece of the story.

The first book is basically a Joseph Campbell style "call to action" - the twist is that after the first novel, it becomes apparent that Paul is declining the call to action, butis caught up in the tides of circumstance. He does not want to be the messiah- that status is thrust upon him by the Fremen, and in a larger sense, by larger scale movements within the whole empire. He denies the call, and even later, that call to action is answered by his (probably mixed race) son.

The series is more an indictment of how people view charismatic leaders than it is a commentary on the leaders themselves. Herbert was making statements about the cult of personality that surrounds leaders, not necessarily the leaders themselves.

 

[Reverend]

I see people haven't read GOD EMPORER OF DUNE where people literally worship a giant slug worm as a God. How does that fit in to the "white savior" narrative knowing that a Worm is the HNIC?

 

[Vect]

Trying to fit something as interminably dense as Dune into a singular narrative like 'white saviour' movie is just foolish. Honestly the biggest flaw with Dune is it's so hard to make such a classic sci-fi book that is more interested in long-term world building than characters entertaining.

Is it ever explicitly stated in the original book that the Atreides family was white?

 

[Bland Crumbs]

Have any of the movies or other visual mediums ever reached the point where Paul is a psychic worm? Everyone and everything I see is always about him rising up to fight the house that's trying to end his family and end there. Like no one ever read the later books where he prophesizes and allows his own death and all the other shit. I don't care much for the books Herbert's son put out, but I don't know many people who actually got past the first two.

Leto II(III depending) was the worm who loved murdering Duncan Idaho gholas and no I doubt they have ever read any of the Frank sequels but will probably love his son's terrible contributions to the universe.

I think had they read the series they would have a very different opinion of the original. I have never really watched or read interviews with Herbert but I wonder what he intended from the beginning of the series.

I hope the movie is worth watching but no movie is ever going to be faithful to the original series.

 

[Snekposter]

No. Because the sequels basically spells out being a messiah isnt all its cracked up to be. People kill in Paul's name and he becomes one of history's greatest murders.

Its especially ironic because as early as like halfway through the book before he even joins the Fremen proper Paul is having premonitions of what's going to happen thanks to being the Kwiszatch Haderach (the Fremen will choose him as their savior and go on a galactic conquest spree), and sees that unless he kills everyone present in the room, including himself, its an inevitability. So he goes with it to save his house, hoping he can restrain and redirect their violence to a safe minimum.

 

[Dysnomia]

I wouldn't call Green Book a white savior movie. That jazz musician holds his own pretty well and has a strong sense of pride. He storms out on that one gig because he's not allowed to eat in the main dining area despite being highly anticipated entertainment. The whole thing is pretty much "fuck the chitlin circuit". Also, he's gay. So it's an LGBT movie. And you guys complain constantly there aren't enough black LGBT films.

Don Shirley was not a prop. If anything Tony Lip, who is constantly eating fast food, is aggressive and foulmothed and has to be taught by gay black man
to write letters to his wife because he's an insensitive goomba, is a stereotypical prop. Did you even see the film?

Trying to fit something as interminably dense as Dune into a singular narrative like 'white saviour' movie is just foolish. Honestly the biggest flaw with Dune is it's so hard to make such a classic sci-fi book that is more interested in long-term world building than characters entertaining.

Is it ever explicitly stated in the original book that the Atreides family was white?

The author of this article never read the books and probably thinks it's like 250 pages of white nobleman saves tribe and becomes one of them. Anyone who actually read the books would smack this person upside the head and call them retarded for thinking this is it.

It's been a long time but I don't think so. I don't think there's much talk of skin colors for any of the characters.

He has a point. Paul does indeed become a messiah of sorts for the Fremen people

Well the second book is called Dune Messiah.

But didn't Jesus become Messiah for all people? If you are comparing them this way then it doesn't matter what Paul looks like or how much melanin he's carrying around.

things do not go well for Paul in the end

Shouldn't you be happy about that because muh white savior?

 

[HumanHive]

Lol, Dune is about how and why messiah archetypes suck. Talk about missing the point.