Science IOC transgender rules do not provide fair competition - Lifting weights with a beer belly at the Olympics is top Female physique or how to Transpeak working class people 101

Article: https://netherlandsnewslive.com/ioc-transgender-rules-do-not-provide-fair-competition/150006/
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Original Dutch Article: https://nos.nl/artikel/2379979-transgenderregels-ioc-leveren-geen-eerlijke-competitie-op

IOC transgender rules do not provide fair competition
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Lundberg: “There is no research showing that the therapy makes a difference in terms of performance advantage. In almost all studies the limit of five nanomoles was reached, but the effect on muscle mass and strength remained small.”


“Hormone therapy also has hardly any effect on removing the advantage that men have in strength and speed. Only one-fifth of the original benefit is lost due to testosterone suppression.”

An advantage that has to do not only with hormones and testosterone, but with other physical male characteristics. Lundberg: “After puberty, boys are taller and taller, and the difference is so big that in sport you have to have a separate women’s category to create a fair competition. Otherwise women will no longer become champions and they will not win medals.”

‘It does not work’​

Lundberg continues: “Maybe the IOC thought, ‘Let’s see if this works.’ We now have enough data to say, it doesn’t work. From that perspective, their current regulations are not supported by scientific evidence.”

The proposition that the current regulations lead to fair competition between born women and transgender women (born men who now go through life as women) thus seems built on quicksand. “That would be a lie,” said Lundberg. “That’s the issue: inclusion and fairness don’t go together. In the sports world it is either one or the other.”

‘IOC transgender rules do not provide fair competition’
Source link ‘IOC transgender rules do not provide fair competition’

Spoiler: Dutch Article

Transgenderregels IOC leveren geen eerlijke competitie op​

Er is geen enkel wetenschappelijk bewijs dat de huidige transgenderregelgeving van het Internationaal Olympisch Comité (IOC) deelname van transgenders aan de Olympische Spelen op een eerlijke manier mogelijk maakt. Dat zegt de Zweedse wetenschapper Tommy Lundberg in gesprek met de NOS.
Lundberg werkt voor de medische universiteit van Zweden, die jaarlijks de Nobelprijs voor de fysiologie of geneeskunde uitreikt. "Er zijn botsende belangen. We willen transgender sporters mee laten doen. Maar sport moet een keuze maken tussen inclusiviteit en eerlijkheid. Allebei gaat niet."
De discussie over transgenderdeelname aan de Olympische Spelen is actueel nadat de Nieuw-Zeelandse gewichthefster Laurel Hubbard zich plaatste voor de Olympische Spelen.
Om het mogelijk te maken dat transgenders deel kunnen nemen aan de Olympische Spelen, paste het IOC in 2016 de regels aan. Transmannen die als meisje zijn geboren, mogen zonder beperking meedoen. Transvrouwen, die als jongen zijn geboren, moeten twaalf maanden lang hormoontherapie hebben gevolgd en hun testosteronniveau mag niet boven de tien nanomol per liter uitkomen. Het doel van de regelgeving: een eerlijke competitie creëren.

Nauwelijks effect​

Lundberg deed in 2020 onderzoek naar de invloed van testosteron op de sportprestaties van transgenders. Volgens hem hebben de extra IOC-voorwaarden nauwelijks effect op het prestatieverschil. Hij ziet in studies dat transgenders bijvoorbeeld langer voordeel houden van een hardere strafcorner of een snellere service.

Lundberg: "Er is geen enkel onderzoek waaruit blijkt dat de therapie qua prestatievoordeel verschil maakt. In bijna alle onderzoeken werd de grens van vijf nanomol bereikt, maar bleef het effect op spiermassa en kracht gering."
"Ook de hormoontherapie heeft nauwelijks effect op het wegnemen van het voordeel dat mannen hebben aan kracht en snelheid. Slechts een vijfde van het oorspronkelijke voordeel valt weg door testosterononderdrukking."
Een voordeel dat niet alleen te maken heeft met hormonen en testosteron, maar met andere fysieke mannelijke kenmerken. Lundberg: "Na de pubertijd zijn jongens groter en langer, en dat verschil is zo groot, dat je in de sport een aparte vrouwencategorie moet hebben om een eerlijke competitie te creëren. Anders worden vrouwen geen kampioen meer en winnen ze geen medailles."

'Het werkt niet'​

Lundberg vervolgt: "Misschien heeft het IOC gedacht: 'laten we kijken of dit werkt'. We hebben nu genoeg data in handen om te zeggen: het werkt niet. Vanuit dat perspectief wordt hun huidige regelgeving niet ondersteund door wetenschappelijk bewijs."
De stelling dat de huidige regelgeving leidt tot een eerlijke competitie tussen geboren vrouwen en transgendervrouwen (geboren mannen die nu door het leven gaan als vrouw) lijkt dus gebouwd op drijfzand. "Dat zou een leugen zijn", aldus Lundberg. "Dat is het issue: inclusie en eerlijkheid gaan niet samen. In de sportwereld is het of het een of het ander."

 

[Mnutu]

It’s not just physical ability, the equipment is designed for male hands which would have prevented women’s smaller hands from getting a proper grip.

First reply in this thread, you fucking nitwit. The argument was not and never was “incompetence of the military industrial complex” but complaining about how the standards were designed around men’s hands, women are inherently disadvantaged in military fitness standards.


EDIT : Correction, here’s his first post:

Men and women are completely different in every way:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_human_physiology

(Enjoy this article now before it gets filled with trans gibberish)

Even if you ignore all that, another advantage for men is that equipment is designed around male bodies. Even small things like shoes are designed for male feet and then just scaled down for women instead of looking at how female feet are different. I know a lot of athletes get some things custom made, but I doubt they all do and certainly not for any equipment that is shared.

Women are also more likely to give up sports during puberty and have less access to teams, equipment, and even just places to practise.

So what’s his fucking point then? That somehow changing the gear to conform to the standards of women is going to drastically overcome the differences in the sexes? I’m all for providing appropriate equipment for the person, but not on the government dime if they can’t even meet the same minimum standards even with the improved equipment.

 

[Calculus]

What on earth does that mean?

It means you develop new technology or materials, make available things more effcicient, or approaching things from a completely different way. I'm not saying to change the basics laws of physics as that's obviously impossible.

 

[Squid Diddler]

It means you develop new technology or materials, make available things more effcicient, or approaching things from a completely different way. I'm not saying to change the basics laws of physics as that's obviously impossible.

Would custom equipment for women help them do better in some of these tests? Sure, probably a little. But by how much? Do you really think completely redesigned equipment (not even getting into the time and cost such R&D would require) would make an average woman even close to as physically capable as a man in a battlefield scenario? Because that’s the real question here, not some red herring strawman military industrial complex bullshit.

Let’s look at chin-ups. Can a woman do as many of those as a man? Or is the bar sexist-ly designed too?

 

[Toolbox]

What on earth does that mean?

I assume they're making mention to robotic exoskeletons that can't run for more than twenty minutes before they're dead weight. Even then these suits aren't magic, they aren't mechs. They just boost existing muscles in certain ways, mostly for lifting.

 

[FlappyBat]

Let’s look at chin-ups. Can a woman do as many of those as a man? Or is the bar sexist-ly designed too?

You say this like there aren't tons of people who think that.

 

[Calculus]

Would custom equipment for women help them do better in some of these tests? Sure, probably a little. But by how much? Do you really think completely redesigned equipment (not even getting into the time and cost such R&D would require) would make an average woman even close to as physically capable as a man in a battlefield scenario? Because that’s the real question here, not some red herring strawman military industrial complex bullshit.

I never argued for any of this. I said men had an advantage, not the redesigning equipment would make things 100% equal. I even pointed out that they could make it possible for more women to carry a stretcher together because there's no overcoming some strength limitations unless a big change (e.g. wheels suitable for rough terrain) was made.

As for the cost, the forces benefit from having all their employees preform to the best of their abilities, which they already work towards by researching how different equipment works for different male bodies:

Let’s look at chin-ups. Can a woman do as many of those as a man? Or is the bar sexist-ly designed too?

I already pointed out that women's strength is focused on the lower half of their body. I also pointed out that these tests as designed around men's abilities, not an objective measure of the average human's abilities and don't have higher standards where women would perform better.

 

[Squid Diddler]

I never argued for any of this. I said men had an advantage, not the redesigning equipment would make things 100% equal. I even pointed out that they could make it possible for more women to carry a stretcher together because there's no overcoming some strength limitations unless a big change (e.g. wheels suitable for rough terrain) was made.

As for the cost, the forces benefit from having all their employees preform to the best of their abilities, which they already work towards by researching how different equipment works for different male bodies:

View attachment 2156534


I already pointed out that women's strength is focused on the lower half of their body. I also pointed out that these tests as designed around men's abilities, not an objective measure of the average human's abilities and don't have higher standards where women would perform better.

Lower half. Got it. Okay so how about fireman’s carry? Literally carrying an injured person out of danger. That’s basically a squat and women love those. Who would win at that, a woman or a man?

Let’s a design a test that has real world applications that’s designed around women’s abilities. You first. Go.

 

[Mnutu]

I never argued for any of this. I said men had an advantage, not the redesigning equipment would make things 100% equal. I even pointed out that they could make it possible for more women to carry a stretcher together because there's no overcoming some strength limitations unless a big change (e.g. wheels suitable for rough terrain) was made.
As for the cost, the forces benefit from having all their employees preform to the best of their abilities, which they already work towards by researching how different equipment works for different male bodies:

View attachment 2156534


I already pointed out that women's strength is focused on the lower half of their body. I also pointed out that these tests as designed around men's abilities, not an objective measure of the average human's abilities and don't have higher standards where women would perform better.

My point is, if they bring more liabilities than fill solutions, it’s a complete waste of resources.

 

[Calculus]

Lower half. Got it. Okay so how about fireman’s carry? Literally carrying an injured person out of danger. That’s basically a squat and women love those. Who would win at that, a woman or a man?

Let’s a design a test that has real world applications that’s designed around women’s abilities. You first. Go.

Already did this as well. Women are smaller and therefore better at crawling through small spaces, which can be useful in situations for repairs or natural disasters. Pretty obvious how this would be tested.

 

[axfaxf]

Already did this as well. Women are smaller and therefore better at crawling through small spaces, which can be useful in situations for repairs or natural disasters. Pretty obvious how this would be tested.

Yeah, let´s airlift some chicks into a volcano and see if they work around the physics.

 

[Mnutu]

Already did this as well. Women are smaller and therefore better at crawling through small spaces, which can be useful in situations for repairs or natural disasters. Pretty obvious how this would be tested.

So why is it then that, despite having an advantage in crawling through small spaces, the majority of cave rescue squads are male?

 

[Squid Diddler]

Already did this as well. Women are smaller and therefore better at crawling through small spaces, which can be useful in situations for repairs or natural disasters. Pretty obvious how this would be tested.

Okay so you’re saying that’s the only thing women should be assigned to do in the military? Crawling through tunnels? What if they find an injured person in the tunnel? Could she drag them out? What if there’s a heavy crank that she needs to turn? Should all cranks be redesigned so they’re easier to turn? Don’t you think that would equally benefit the men already doing that job and would have been done a long time ago if it was possible? Or should they only crawl through tunnels if it’s a delicate and easy job at the end that they can handle? Crawling through narrow spaces is not a job in and of itself.

 

[Calculus]

So why is it then that, despite having an advantage in crawling through small spaces, the majority of cave rescue squads are male?

Because the of the same reasons I keep repeating in this thread:

https://www.deeperblue.com/its-different-for-girls-renee-power-and-jill-heinerth-highlight-women-underwater/

Okay so you’re saying that’s the only thing women should be assigned to do in the military? Crawling through tunnels? What if they find an injured person in the tunnel? Could she drag them out? What if there’s a heavy crank that she needs to turn? Should all cranks be redesigned so they’re easier to turn? Don’t you think that would equally benefit the men already doing that job and would have been done a long time ago if it was possible? Or should they only crawl through tunnels if it’s a delicate and easy job at the end that they can handle? Crawling through narrow spaces is not a job in and of itself.

I never said any of that. You said "design a test" and I designed a test.

I know you don't read my posts but do you read your own ones?

 

[Squid Diddler]

I never said any of that. You said "design a test" and I designed a test.

I know you don't read my posts but do you read your own ones?

And I’m telling you your “test” is stupid and not a test at all because “crawling through stuff” is not really an applicable scenario in and of itself. Dust off some of those critical reasoning skills.

It’s tough sifting though the inanity but I do read your posts, although maybe I shouldn’t for my own sake.

 

[Mnutu]

Because the of the same reasons I keep repeating in this thread:

https://www.deeperblue.com/its-different-for-girls-renee-power-and-jill-heinerth-highlight-women-underwater/

I never said any of that. You said "design a test" and I designed a test.

I know you don't read my posts but do you read your own ones?

No you dumb fucking idiot; the gear makes zero fucking difference. The gear would be made to better suit the women if they were truly better at cave rescues. They arent because not only do you have to be limber and lithe, you need to be fucking strong to pull someone (likely a heavier than a woman man) out of a dangerous situation. This is putting a band aid on a bigger problem; women aren’t cut like men and no amount of equipment will help that; rather than expecting or allowing them the same jobs as men, just accept that they can’t cut it and risk far less.

 

[MrJokerRager]

Men and women natural being built different is a hard concept for some people i guess, no organization is gonna make a completely different set of tools just so some 110 pound woman can fail to compete against the 190 pound man. Which is why men shouldn't be competing in female sports.

If you cant put your tiny hands around a barbell, you should either wait till you grow up, or kill yourself in minecraft.

The propaganda of "Girl Power" and so much obsession with mostly young upper class white women has been a long term disaster. The number of fathers in California from the middle to upper middle classes that cuck to their daughters and wives over everything now. It has kind have gotten to their heads now. Im sure if today's feminist met Joan of Arc, she would leave disgusted given that Joan of Arc would probably believe in the patriarchy and God and Christ and all that shit that they hate their parents for.

I also say the clash of civilizations meme in the wake of 9/11 as many liberals wanted to own the muzzies by showing how Western women are so free compared to Saudi Arabia or Iran has been a long term disaster.

Iran and Saudi Arabia are at the opposite extreme as far as gender equality goes but trying to blow so much smoke up a women's ass to get laid by telling them they can do and be anything has been a disaster and all that cultural propaganda propped up by like Hollywood showing how women stronk and bad men trying to keep her down has been a disaster.

Its been a cultural war going on since the first wave of feminists wanted the 19th amendment so badly because they got butthurt super bad over Black men being finally allowed to vote. The second wave of the KKK got so big partly because of the support of women. And since women got what they wanted, the KKK fucked off and has never reached those same heights again. Now the women especially white woman as Newsmax had the balls to say a while ago but not Fox News, are a big and giant part of the woke movement that seeks to burn America down.

They hate middle class and lower class women for not being down with the ERA which failed hard and in Virginia recently, they virtue signaled to join it. Remember that upper class women hate middle and lower class women.

 

[Vulva Gape]

Incels.is is right around the corner, guys.

 

[Squid Diddler]

Incels.is is right around the corner, guys.

Pretty ironic coming from you.

 

[YMB]

You know what was designed specifically for women? The fucking kitchen.

 

[Vulva Gape]

Pretty ironic coming from you.

Lol I'm not a misogynist and I get hella pussy, whats up with that