General Wrestling Discussion

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Bret had a retard moment and shit on Gunter for his chops being real :story:
“I don't want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn all the time, but the best wrestling has to pretend to be real. I mean, that's what I did. I tried to make it as real as I could. Contrary to that GUNTHER guy — I hate wrestlers that hurt each other on purpose. I hate it when you're out there getting beat up and hurt by a guy for real — They [Chops] look like shit. They make a big slap sound. But they hurt — It's not supposed to be real. Like I'm not supposed to really wake up with a really sore chest the next day. So I have no respect for guys that hurt each other all the time. And it's just to me, lazy shit wrestling when guys like GUNTHER, and I've told him this to his face, it's bullshit. Like when you're hurting somebody for real, you're unprofessional. And I wrestle guys, never hurt anybody.”
 
Blackstar said:
Bret had a retard moment and shit on Gunter for his chops being real :story:
“I don't want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn all the time, but the best wrestling has to pretend to be real. I mean, that's what I did. I tried to make it as real as I could. Contrary to that GUNTHER guy — I hate wrestlers that hurt each other on purpose. I hate it when you're out there getting beat up and hurt by a guy for real — They [Chops] look like shit. They make a big slap sound. But they hurt — It's not supposed to be real. Like I'm not supposed to really wake up with a really sore chest the next day. So I have no respect for guys that hurt each other all the time. And it's just to me, lazy shit wrestling when guys like GUNTHER, and I've told him this to his face, it's bullshit. Like when you're hurting somebody for real, you're unprofessional. And I wrestle guys, never hurt anybody.”
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Yeah because Steve Austin bleeding buckets at WM 13 wasn't painful at all.

I get not wanting injuries but if you can't take a hard slap to the chest pro wrestling isn't for you.
 
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Bret hating Gunther of all people is so fucking weird. Gunther is one of the most believable guys in all of wrestling today and his matches always make logical sense. But I guess that doesn't matter because his chops are a little rough. Bret is 100% in the wrong here.
 
Kermit the Frog said:
Bret hating Gunther of all people is so fucking weird. Gunther is one of the most believable guys in all of wrestling today and his matches always make logical sense. But I guess that doesn't matter because his chops are a little rough. Bret is 100% in the wrong here.
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bret's gonna have another stroke when he find out about hansen vs vader lol
 
Hurst said:
This isn't Cobra Kai.

Shelton was a legit wrestler, can probably take a punch, and he's still jacked. All he'd need to do is is wait for Speedball to try and kick him and it would be over.

Cornette has told stories about him tossing Brock around for fun all while living on a diet of McDonalds.

Bobby has the same accolades and has done MMA as well and is even bigger than Shelton.

Having them sell karate kicks from 5'7 185 pound they/them twink makes no logical sense.

You can't use Speedballs real life training as advantage and at the same time ignore Shelton's and Bobby's.

This why you should never mix big wrestlers with smaller ones.
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I don't necessarily agree. You can get away with it so long as you depict it as what it should be from a storytelling perspective: Speedball fighting an uphill battle against a bigger and stronger opponent. David vs Goliath. When Shelton has the offense, there is no "trading back and forth," because someone his size has no business being evenly matched by someone so much smaller than him, so much of his offense would be spent manhandling Speedball. Eventually, he makes and error, which opens the door for Speedball take advantage. Any offense Speedball gets, he would have to really fight and struggle for it to get Shelton to sell, which makes it all the more satisfying when he finally manages to get the bigger guy off his feet. That used to be something that would keep people on the edge of their seat, seeing a huge guy teetering as the small babyface struggled to knock them down. When they finally fall, the crowd would pop huge because they want to see the little guy overcome the odds. You're not going to see any of that with Speedball, because that would require someone to go to him and tell him that he can't play badass karate man against bigger opponents.
 
Magic Sun Daddy said:
I don't necessarily agree. You can get away with it so long as you depict it as what it should be from a storytelling perspective: Speedball fighting an uphill battle against a bigger and stronger opponent. David vs Goliath. When Shelton has the offense, there is no "trading back and forth," because someone his size has no business being evenly matched by someone so much smaller than him, so much of his offense would be spent manhandling Speedball. Eventually, he makes and error, which opens the door for Speedball take advantage. Any offense Speedball gets, he would have to really fight and struggle for it to get Shelton to sell, which makes it all the more satisfying when he finally manages to get the bigger guy off his feet. That used to be something that would keep people on the edge of their seat, seeing a huge guy teetering as the small babyface struggled to knock them down. When they finally fall, the crowd would pop huge because they want to see the little guy overcome the odds. You're not going to see any of that with Speedball, because that would require someone to go to him and tell him that he can't play badass karate man against bigger opponents.
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That's pretty much Gunther's whole thing whenever he loses. He kicks their ass for 15 minutes with a few small hope spots getting cut off. Then he gets too confident and get hit with a big move, then the face hits a bunch of his moves in a row for the win.
 
Hurst said:
Shelton was a legit wrestler, can probably take a punch, and he's still jacked. All he'd need to do is is wait for Speedball to try and kick him and it would be over.

Bobby has the same accolades and has done MMA as well and is even bigger than Shelton.
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I don't mind big men getting their asses kicked by wrestlers of smaller statures / absurd gimmicks like Orange. Make it believable though: the smaller guy hammering away at the big guy with everything he's got when he sees an opening/the big guy gets distracted.
Kermit the Frog said:
Bret hating Gunther of all people is so fucking weird. Gunther is one of the most believable guys in all of wrestling today and his matches always make logical sense. But I guess that doesn't matter because his chops are a little rough. Bret is 100% in the wrong here.
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Wait until he sees the strong style of Japanese pro wrestling.
 
Blackstar said:
Bret had a retard moment and shit on Gunter for his chops being real :story:
“I don't want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn all the time, but the best wrestling has to pretend to be real. I mean, that's what I did. I tried to make it as real as I could. Contrary to that GUNTHER guy — I hate wrestlers that hurt each other on purpose. I hate it when you're out there getting beat up and hurt by a guy for real — They [Chops] look like shit. They make a big slap sound. But they hurt — It's not supposed to be real. Like I'm not supposed to really wake up with a really sore chest the next day. So I have no respect for guys that hurt each other all the time. And it's just to me, lazy shit wrestling when guys like GUNTHER, and I've told him this to his face, it's bullshit. Like when you're hurting somebody for real, you're unprofessional. And I wrestle guys, never hurt anybody.”
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Damn Bret, you're my goat, but you're making very hard to me defending you every time you open your mouth.

Gunther is one of the few believable tough guys in the wrestling. Why would he stop on his chops on the chest? Come on Bret, you certainly didn't had a problem with Austin being busted open for you in Wrestlemania 13.
 
Dragged Into Sunlight said:
Watching these old NWA and WCW really makes me understand and sympathize with why Cornette is so jaded with today's wrestling. I don't blame him at all. People in the crowd going absolutely apeshit for the teams that are over. Watching the background is fascinating. These people are hanging on the edge of their seats for every move. Sure you get big pops at certain moments in modern wrestling, but people definitely aren't as fully engaged as back then. I guess it's a symptom of modernity. There's no mystery in the world anymore. Everyone's attention span is completely burned out. I'm in mourning for a world that no longer exists and that I barely got to experience. I talked to my mom a bit today and she said it's not all in my head. She said she was sad I never got to experience a lot of that old world as an adult and only caught the very end of it as a kid.
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I know every generation eventually earns the "back in my day" mentality, but wrestling was genuinely better in the mid-to-late 90s. I wish I could describe it in depth but its truly one of those "you have to be there" phenomenons.

Seeing prime Rey Mysterio was like watching the IRL Spiderman when I was 9. The NWO didn't feel like a wrestling faction, it felt like the beginnings of a national gang takeover that was going to spill out into the streets and it was headed by a guy who no one assumed would've betray the public in Hulk Hogan. Tony Schiavone called the NWO takeover like he was an inner city news reporter covering gang violence. You saw the rise of DDP, and Goldberg, the Benoit/Booker T best of 7 for the U.S Championship series and so much more. And that's just WCW, you had WWF on the other channel and all the cool stuff they had going on.

You're right also about the culture of the time too. People didn't care to be "marks", we were all too busy having fun. Wrestling was truly for the working class and people believed in it. It was common knowledge it was fake, but the twists, turns and action kept everyone invested.

What a time it was.
 
Kermit the Frog said:
Bret hating Gunther of all people is so fucking weird. Gunther is one of the most believable guys in all of wrestling today and his matches always make logical sense. But I guess that doesn't matter because his chops are a little rough. Bret is 100% in the wrong here.
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even as a big Bret guy yeah thats a pretty massive L, still rare for the guy at least in my opinion, even Taker who has mixed opinions modern wrestling absolutely loves the guy and that says a lot given Taker doesn't usually praise individual wrestlers that much
 
Blackstar said:
Taker's top guy
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Considering the fact Brock is now back in the equation, Id think Taker would absolutely love a Gunther vs Brock match and if that’s what they go with for Mania and Id certainly agree, Taker certainly thought enough of Brock to give him the Streak or at least assent to Vince’s wishes for him to do so
 
Caddo Cobgang said:
Taker certainly thought enough of Brock to give him the Streak or at least assent to Vince’s wishes for him to do so
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That was all on Vince who changed it last minute to be a win for Brock. Sucks that it happened but what's retarded is that afterward Vince claimed that Taker was never concussed and was just in shock over the streak going to be broken.
 
We might be in for some very funny shit right now. Out of nowhere it’s Moxley vs Mike Bailey to open Dynamite. If this fucking Moxley puts over Mike Bailey as a fuck you to the others not putting him over that’s funny as fuck.

Moxley wins. Damn. I wanted the comedy of Mike winning.
 
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Magic Sun Daddy said:
I don't necessarily agree. You can get away with it so long as you depict it as what it should be from a storytelling perspective: Speedball fighting an uphill battle against a bigger and stronger opponent. David vs Goliath. When Shelton has the offense, there is no "trading back and forth," because someone his size has no business being evenly matched by someone so much smaller than him, so much of his offense would be spent manhandling Speedball. Eventually, he makes and error, which opens the door for Speedball take advantage. Any offense Speedball gets, he would have to really fight and struggle for it to get Shelton to sell, which makes it all the more satisfying when he finally manages to get the bigger guy off his feet. That used to be something that would keep people on the edge of their seat, seeing a huge guy teetering as the small babyface struggled to knock them down. When they finally fall, the crowd would pop huge because they want to see the little guy overcome the odds. You're not going to see any of that with Speedball, because that would require someone to go to him and tell him that he can't play badass karate man against bigger opponents.
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crunchy bits are the best said:
I don't mind big men getting their asses kicked by wrestlers of smaller statures / absurd gimmicks like Orange. Make it believable though: the smaller guy hammering away at the big guy with everything he's got when he sees an opening/the big guy gets distracted.
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I understand where you guys are coming from but with Shelton and Bobby it's ridiculous. Use Lance Archer or Big Bill for something like that Tony's already ruined them.

Don't have two legit guys first loss be to Speedboat. They'll never have the same aura again and TK wouldn't be able to capitalize on something like that after the fact so it would be pointless. If he really wants him to go over do something like that on their way out.
 
Hurst said:
I understand where you guys are coming from but with Shelton and Bobby it's ridiculous. Use Lance Archer or Big Bill for something like that Tony's already ruined them.

Don't have two legit guys first loss be to Speedboat. They'll never have the same aura again and TK wouldn't be able to capitalize on something like that after the fact so it would be pointless. If he really wants him to go over do something like that on their way out.
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Oh no, I definitely don't want to see Speedball beating either of them, even it was done with the proper match psychology. I was just making a general statement about the importance of grounded and logical storytelling. Even with his credentials, I can't see him as a threat to even the average wrestling fan because he's so unimpressive to look at. Ricky Steamboat had a similar gimmick and lacked any actual martial arts background, but if you were to tell a casual or new wrestling fan that this guy,
s-l400.webp

was a master martial artist, they'd believe you in an instinct just from the first glance. It isn't even a matter of being too short or too small. Low Ki managed to have an aura of legitimacy despite being so small because he keeps in great shape and knows how to project intensity. Granted, part of that legitimacy comes from him being an dangerous and unprofessional cocksucker in the ring, stiffing opponents and knocking them out for shoot due to his chronic little-man syndrome, but the point still stands. Steamboat looked like a star, Low Ki looked like a killer, Speedball looks like just some twerp playing a gimmick despite having more of a legit background than the other two.
 
Hurst said:
Having them sell karate kicks from 5'7 185 pound they/them twink makes no logical sense.
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My only knowledge of Speedball comes from when I was screwing around with GrokAI and fantasy booking and Indie weekly TV show with roughly the same budget as WoW Women of Wrestling. It suggested I try to get either Speedball or Cameron Grimes as my inaugural champ.
 
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