That's a great post, how could anyone dis-
Oh, the guy who got filtered by Fallout 2's easy early game and nearly had a temper tantrum when he got called out on it has a problem with Fallout 3 being criticized, color me shocked.
Yeah no shit but you didnt get my point: karma does affect things in F2 more than in F1 where IIRC it affects only shop prices and whenether your dude shoots the Overseer after the ending slideshow. I said if you dont play a looksmaxxing build, then good karma can lock you out from, say, joining Salvatore or Mordino because neither Mason nor Lil Heeezus were impressed with your do gooder ass.
10k in cash is actually hard to come by in 2, you have to pretty much sell your barter goods at a big loss to every random trader in the game and pick suboptimal quest rewards like taking $500 from Marcus for solving his first quest instead of a scoped hunting rifle, which is worth 3x that but good luck finding a vendor with that much cash on hand. If you want all dermal implants, and you do because you can never have enough damage reduction under this combat system, it will cost you around 40k in hard cash, no barter.
I bet I forgot more about Fallout 2 than you ever learned...
You can nuke an entire city then give a homeless bum ten purified waters to go right back to good karma. If you have good or bad karma you get chased by mercenaries so there's barely a different gameplay element in the wasteland. There's no balance. Your father scolds you for wiping out a city then goes right back to business. Every NPC magically knows your karma rating.
New Vegas is a particularly retarded example of that where a max evil karma user can kill a dozen ghouls or fiends and find themselves be referred to as wasteland Jesus all of a sudden
Fallout 3's karma is just as imbalanced. Saving Megaton is +200 karma but blowing it up is -1000. Giving a homeless beggar purified water is +50 karma. So for 20 purified waters you can nuke a city for even karma.
Yeah no shit but you didnt get my point: karma does affect things in F2 more than in F1 where IIRC it affects only shop prices and whenether your dude shoots the Overseer after the ending slideshow. I said if you dont play a looksmaxxing build, then good karma can lock you out from, say, joining Salvatore or Mordino because neither Mason nor Lil Heeezus were impressed with your do gooder ass
Karma is massively important in Fallout 1, it essentially determines if you're able to get your free Power Armor suit from Lost Hills(the only other way to get one is to assault the storeroom and turn the Brotherhood hostile or repair one yourself). 16 is the magic number, nothing else matters and there is zero reason to be a negative karma character. Still more of an impact that karma ever had in Fallout 2, I never had any problem joining Salvatore or Mordino and I never ran bad karma before. If you have the right stats and know what to say, it's never an issue, there is no major questlines I know of in Fallout 2 which are not available for non-evil characters aside from not being able to side with Lo Pan in Chinatown, where as there is plenty of content evil characters won't see at all. It's crazy imbalanced and it's clear nobody play tested an evil character in Fallout 2, not surprising considering the game barely had a year of development time.
You can nuke an entire city then give a homeless bum ten purified waters to go right back to good karma. If you have good or bad karma you get chased by mercenaries so there's barely a different gameplay element in the wasteland. There's no balance. Your father scolds you for wiping out a city then goes right back to business. Every NPC magically knows your karma rating.
Fallout 3's karma is just as imbalanced. Saving Megaton is +200 karma but blowing it up is -1000. Giving a homeless beggar purified water is +50 karma. So for 20 purified waters you can nuke a city for even karma.
You're missing the point, every single facet of the game has karma baked in: quests, companions ect. There is a visible impact for evil/good/neutral characters, something that is missing from every other entry. I never said the system was balanced, fuck no, but at least Bethesda tried. I would love to see a system like this actually done well, but as is, it's a good proof of concept.
What, one interaction with one character in China Town? There is no other content that good/neutral characters cannot access. None that matters, anyways. Maybe some quests can be easier, but who cares when they're still doable for good characters regardless. You are the only champion of evil karma walkthrus for Fallout 2 I have ever seen and I have been around the community for 30 years, you might be fighting a losing battle.
Edit: Nevermind, I thought you said that locks non-evil player characters from content. Still, retarded point as you will never, ever be an evil character in Fallout 2 without using a guide or at least knowing the game inside and out. Moot to argue about this because nobody ever did or will, just (you) because you're clearly biased on the topic.
You're missing the point, every single facet of the game has karma baked in: quests, companions ect. There is a visible impact for evil/good/neutral characters, something that is missing from every other entry.
This system is retarded and violates the world building. Fallout is post-post apocalyptic in its world. Most characters should be indifferent to your transgressions or benefactions in the world. They are just trying to survive. Every NPC having literal perfect knowledge of all of your wasteland deeds is utterly stupid design and immersion breaking.
I never said the system was balanced, fuck no, but at least Bethesda tried. I would love to see a system like this actually done well, but as is, it's a good proof of concept.
The faction system of New Vegas is more grounded. As factions are invested in whether or not you support or antagonize them. The way it's done in Fallout 3 is ludicrous in that you can give a beggar fresh water at the southern most point of the map then every single NPC at the northern most point instantly recognizes you as some wasteland messiah. The Fallout 3 system reminds you constantly you are playing a dumb Bethesda game. The New Vegas system is more about role playing experience.
This system is retarded and violates the world building. Fallout is post-post apocalyptic in its world. Most characters should be indifferent to your transgressions or benefactions in the world. They are just trying to survive. Every NPC having literal perfect knowledge of all of your wasteland deeds is utterly stupid design and immersion breaking.
Counter-point: there is zero worldbuilding in Fallout 3 so it doesn't matter. It's a cartoon world and a post apocalyptic theme park, so the karma system, as it was implemented, fits right in. You're right that it doesn't fit the real Fallout games(1/2/NV) and that's why it sticks out like a sore thumb there. At least in 1 it serves as a sort of score system to determine if you are able to get a suit of Power Armor, so I can buy into that(otherwise it would would be way easier to abuse and get one right away ala Navarro in Fallout 2), but it was absolutely useless in the latter two, especially since reputation system now existed.
The faction system of New Vegas is more grounded. As factions are invested in whether or not you support or antagonize them. The way it's done in Fallout 3 is ludicrous in that you can give a beggar fresh water at the southern most point of the map then every single NPC at the northern most point instantly recognizes you as some wasteland messiah. The Fallout 3 system reminds you constantly you are playing a dumb Bethesda game. The New Vegas system is more about role playing experience.
You're correct, but the reputation system in New Vegas is still underbaked. Like I said before, the most it determines is if you get shot at on sight and if you get free shit, I feel there could be so much more done with it. I blame that more on lack of development time however, and the reputation system is definitely better than the karma system.
Y'know I just checked wiki for karma effects in both 1 and 2. In 1, the biggest is the free PA you mentioned and that can be ignored anyway if you bother to yoink every Repair manual around, in 2 bad karma locks you out of many companions and a few quest lines, the biggest is that both Wrights and Smart Deathclaws will not deal with a sick fuck so no Sierra Army Depot or Vault 13 for you.
You said that karma has bigger effect in 1 than 2, but it's provably wrong to the most casual observer.
Y'know I just checked wiki for karma effects in both 1 and 2. In 1, the biggest is the free PA you mentioned and that can be ignored anyway if you bother to yoink every Repair manual around, in 2 bad karma locks you out of many companions and a few quest lines, the biggest is that both Wrights and Smart Deathclaws will not deal with a sick fuck so no Sierra Army Depot or Vault 13 for you.
You said that karma has bigger effect in 1 than 2, but it's provably wrong to the most casual observer.
Free Power Armor is more worthwhile than anything you mentioned, and as I already said nobody will ever have bad karma in Fallout 2 unless you go out of the way to play a certain way. Let it go.
Free Power Armor is more worthwhile than anything you mentioned, and as I already said nobody will ever have bad karma in Fallout 2 unless you go out of the way to play a certain way. Let it go.
"A Free Suit of Armor I Can Get Elsewhere Is More Impactful Than Being Locked Out of Content Because I Don't Like It" and more lies that you can tell yourself.
You're correct, but the reputation system in New Vegas is still underbaked. Like I said before, the most it determines is if you get shot at on sight and if you get free shit, I feel there could be so much more done with it.
This is just flat out wrong. Did you even play New Vegas? Reputation determines companion availability, unlocks certain merchants, enables faction checks in dialogue, discounts opens up new quests you couldn't get otherwise, NPC greetings, hitsquads, etc. The Boomers entire questline is based around making them idolize you, for an obvious example. And there's a spectrum of reputation based on your fame and infamy, which are both seperately tracked to prevent the whole purified water problem of the system karma faces. It isn't a binary kill or worship. What are you talking about?
Sure, there could always be more, but that applies to nearly every aspect of every game ever. I wish the Strip was 10 times as big, I wish you could visit Arizona, I wish there were more than 5 voice actors, I wish every quest had 10 more branches, but that didn't happen.
Miss Kitty: Hello there, how can I... serve you? (Charisma check: fail)
: I COME IN THE NAME OF JESUS...
Miss Kitty: Excuse me but the Mordinos are further down... REPEAT IT AFTER ME, BITCH! BY THA POWA OF THA HOLY SPEET ...well, Father Tully runs...
Skynet: GOODMORNINGMADAME BITCH, I PAY PREMIUM FOR RECITING GOD'S PLAN FOR MY NIGGA IN CHRIST HERE (slams $10k in cash and a New Testament on the table) (...fuck me sideways) HAHAHAHAHAHA
On Project Midwest, I'm thinking the heavy hitters of the setting will be various descendants of rogue military and national guard units going to have their own code and culture with one of the largest The Canadian Brigade going to build up for an invasion of Midwest region, especially Michigan
This is just flat out wrong. Did you even play New Vegas? Reputation determines companion availability, unlocks certain merchants, enables faction checks in dialogue, discounts opens up new quests you couldn't get otherwise, NPC greetings, hitsquads, etc. The Boomers entire questline is based around making them idolize you, for an obvious example. And there's a spectrum of reputation based on your fame and infamy, which are both seperately tracked to prevent the whole purified water problem of the system karma faces. It isn't a binary kill or worship. What are you talking about?
Sure, there could always be more, but that applies to nearly every aspect of every game ever. I wish the Strip was 10 times as big, I wish you could visit Arizona, I wish there were more than 5 voice actor, I wish every quest had 10 more branches, but that didn't happen.
What companion factions? There is Boone for NCR and maybe Cass(karma is more important for her), that's it. Maybe this point would be valid if Victor for Strip/House and Vulpes for Legion were implemented as possible companions, as they were planned to be. As is, the only faction that matters is NCR, and maybe Legion if you don't want their hit squads, that's it. Every other faction reputation is useless unless they are shoot on sight. For example, you lose some minor content for Powder Gangers if you have negative reputation with them, that someone like
always misses anyways presumably because they make the exact same build and play the exact same way anyways so it doesn't matter, losing out on one minor questline and some free dynamite is absolutely nothing the grand scheme of things, Fallout 3 has much wider implications with it's karma system. Followers have a counter that you want to reach a certain threshold to gain their safehouse key(just like a point counter for karma in Fallout 1 to get free Power Armor) and likewise you want a positive reputation with Khans to access their merchant and do their quests, other than that the reputation system is only used well in Volare to determine how fast you will complete that quest, nobody ever cared about having positive/negative Goodsprings, Novac or Freeside reputation because the effects, assuming there are any, are so minute they don't matter. You and I just described every single viable change the faction system has in this game, but feel free to look up some obscure example nobody cares about on the wiki to prove me wrong if you're so inclined.
Point is that reputation in New Vegas amounts to "will NCR give me free shit or will they shoot me on sight?"(insert Legion here if you want), that's literally it aside from very situational quest or location based content. This is anemic, just slightly better than the disaster that is the karma system in the same game. I don't know why you're dead set on defending it when it's just slightly more in-depth than the karma system in Fallout 3, you even agree with me that it is underbaked at the end of the day so I don't know what you're arguing about. There is no "spectrum" anything, it's all smoke and mirrors, it's flavor just like the reputation system was in Fallout 2 for the most part(and Outer Worlds, game made by the same devs btw). Posters here really are low IQ retards that will try to make a mountain out of a molehill, even Bethesda fans who only play Fallout 76 on 4chan are better versed in the games and more entertaining to talk to at this point.
Yes, and leveling up amounts to "kill enemy better", and quests amount to "talk to people and sometimes shoot things." Isn't it so easy to be a reductive jackass?
Situational quest or location-based content literally describes everything in the entire fucking game. Does everything you do need to have a permanent and omnipresent effect on every second of gameplay immediately afterward? Is NCR reputation not affecting the amount of damage you do to ghouls a legitimate criticism of the system?
Either you're being intentionally retarded or you seem to correlate actions that give negative karma with the consequences of having low karma. Karma itself does jackshit in F3
I could spend more time picking apart your broken logic and nonsensical premises, but you seem to be so stubborn and mind-bendingly retarded that I'm just going to assume you're a baiting faggot who's deliberately wasting my time.
Brotherhood and Followers do not play a large role in the game, you never have any reason to kill the latter and the former you will likely only kill during the main questline. There simply aren't enough interactions with these two factions to make reputation with them a major factor, again it's mostly "will they shoot me on sight or not?" and there is no reason to ever kill any Followers. I already told you only NCR reputation matters, in this and all other matters.
Yes, and leveling up amounts to "kill enemy better", and quests amount to "talk to people and sometimes shoot things." Isn't it so easy to be a reductive jackass?
You are obtuse because you have nothing better to say. One missing quest means nothing, especially since barely anyone even knows about it, and there aren't any other major consequences for having a negative/positive reputations short of kill squads(that only two major factions even utilize, I don't count powder gangers because they are barely even a faction). Wow, I don't get a safehouse this particular playthru because in my retardation, I went murder hobo on a faction I could have easily befriended, such choices and consequences! You're making Todd's water bottle per life economy look indepth.
Situational quest or location-based content literally describes everything in the entire fucking game. Does everything you do need to have a permanent and omnipresent effect on every second of gameplay immediately afterward? Is NCR reputation not affecting the amount of damage you do to ghouls a legitimate criticism of the system?
One or two quests and a few quest interactions mean nothing, you could go thru the whole game with neutral rep for every faction and not even get to any of this content. This is all fluff for roleplayers, only thing that matters is if you are on friendly terms with NCR or not since they have the only major presence out of any faction in the game world. Even Legion can mostly be avoided if you know what you're doing. >Does everything need to have a permanent and omnipresent effect? Yes it does, it's called "making a good RPG" and the reputation system in FNV aint' it, just like much of the game it's a barely functioning skeleton of what could be and NCR/Legion/Boomer side of it is the only one that clearly got any work put into it. Everything else is cut content or barely finished content or content that doesn't matter ie flavor.
Either you're being intentionally retarded or you seem to correlate actions that give negative karma with the consequences of having low karma. Karma itself does jackshit in F3
So karma determines what kinds of people shoot at you, what kinds of companions are available, and who gives you free shit...just like the reputation system in New Vegas does. I'm sorry, do you have down syndrome or something? You just confirmed what I said.
I could spend more time picking apart your broken logic and nonsensical premises, but you seem to be so stubborn and mind-bendingly retarded that I'm going to assume you're a baiting faggot who's deliberately wasting my time.
You didn't say anything of value because you're a low IQ moron who doesn't know what he's talking about. You just need to have the last word even if it amounts to nothing because you're a redditor, there is no point in taking you seriously. Feel free to spend an entire page deliberating on this pointless topic or crying how I hurt your feelings, you certainly aren't going to make a good point or say anything of value so you might as well.
GOOD
