Dragon Age: The Veilguard - A woke disaster? Yep!

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Are u woke enough for this game?

  • Hell yeah, I want play it with my wife's son

    Votes: 170 9.4%
  • Nope, I need to suck more girlcock first

    Votes: 393 21.8%
  • Yasss, I identify as an autistic dwarf of color

    Votes: 377 20.9%
  • Nah, I rather play Fallout76

    Votes: 862 47.8%

  • Total voters
    1,803
Yeah it is very clear in the story that Bhelen loves power more than tradition, and by having more than two brain cells to rub together, recognizes that the current situation is less than ideal for remaining in power. By reforming the government, gaining a large power-base, and expanding the economy and manpower pool, he can become more powerful and stay longer on the throne. It very well might have been a liberal ideological screed on the part of the writers, but damn if it wasn't a well-written and totally logical within the confines of the universe, screed.
 
Kinda similar to the legion of the dead.
On first glance the legion make sense, basically WH slayers with more practical protection, but when you think about it, it is insanely counterproductive allowing females to serve as each one captured could spawn hundreds of new enemies. Female human fighters on the otherhand made a lot more sense in universe, due to healing magic making pregnancy less of a focus and Andraste being a major rolemodel.
Exactly this. Bhelen, his ruthlesness and his reforms make perfect sense within the story. On top of that, it's pretty clear he craves power above all else, and it could be argued that his reforms are byproduct of his heartless pragmatism. With modern BioWare, he'd likely be queer dwarf woman of color that's held back by evil dwarfish patriarchy and can do no wrong, and the only thing player could do would be screaming "you go girl!"
This, "modern" writers forget that no one sees themselves as the villain. Motivations matter, even if it was just 'getting even' like Howe.
One little touch I loved was Bhelen was pragmatic enough to send troops to the surface to stop the archdemon, but dwarven enough to make sure they kept their helmets on to avoid being "skytouched"
By reforming the government, gaining a large power-base, and expanding the economy and manpower pool, he can become more powerful and stay longer on the throne.
His decisions are good for dwarfkind, but would make him powerful enemies. The warrior caste would hate him for breaking their monopoly on the use of force, the nobles would hate him for upturning the applecart.
 
His decisions are good for dwarfkind, but would make him powerful enemies. The warrior caste would hate him for breaking their monopoly on the use of force, the nobles would hate him for upturning the applecart.
Yeah, but a bunch of poorfags eager for status and quite willing to fight to get it make a lovely counterbalance to both of those.
 
Replaying DA2 a little. While I enjoy it still, it is frustrating how the game railroads you. For example after Petrice sets Hawke up to die, Hawke can threaten to kill her but can’t take any action. Only saying she has made an enemy.

DA2’s plot and theme is basically one of failure, not because Hawke is a chump but because at the end of the day, Hawke can’t change anything on a large scale. He can clean up bodies afterwards but no more.

As a rags to riches story, it’s honestly a subversion of the usual. Hawke is repeatedly identified as Serrah(apparently a greeting for a social inferior), and most of the quests Hawke does are running around doing errands for more influential parties. He never actually achieves power-and in raising his family’s status ultimately just ends up losing everything anyway.

Even after Hawke becomes champion, he doesn’t have any real power to change things. He can even ask Alistair to support him as Viscount and Alistair refuses(why I have no idea?) beyond the railroading.

And I get why-the Qunari conflict with Thedas and the chantry and the mage-Templar conflict are much bigger than one man-however skilled at arms or magic do more than simply participate in. But I can understand why people dislike it. Compared to Origins and Inquisition where you make world shaking decisions, in DA2 the best you can do is influence certain character’s fates and dispositions. You can kill Anders, but you can’t stop him from blowing up the chantry. You can support or not support Sebastian, he becomes Prince of Starkhaven anyway after Elthina dies.
 
The Noble Human origin is generic fantasy slop
I really hate that there isn't a commoner human origin, feels like there should be since each race got a "special" and a "nobody" origin sans Human.
On top of that, it's pretty clear he craves power above all else, and it could be argued that his reforms are byproduct of his heartless pragmatism
I'd disagree a bit. If he craves power above all else wouldn't the extremely rigid top-down political structure of the dwarves basically do that?

I feel like they go a bit too far with Bhelen with the comically evil tyrant shtick when he is also always making the right decision on a macro scale. Him being a backstabbing cunt willing to do any kind of shady shit to get in power makes sense but when he's laughing and executing people immediately it feels retarded. There's two characters, on-screen Bhelen and off-screen Bhelen and they don't really jive.
Even after Hawke becomes champion, he doesn’t have any real power to change things. He can even ask Alistair to support him as Viscount and Alistair refuses(why I have no idea?) beyond the railroading.
It is pretty evident they wound up cutting a whole act out of the game and settled on the mage vs Templar conflict as the capstone last minute. Hawke DOES become the ruler of Kirkwall if I remember right, but only if he sides with Meredith at the end, which you might as well do since everyone goes nuts and you have to kill them regardless.

I think this cut act would have had you become champion and start solidifying yourself as Viscount. That's just my theory though.
 
If you are a peasant dwarf, Bhelen is your sister's sugar daddy, so there's no reason not to support him. Having a king wrapped around your sister's thumb, and this sister adores you - that's a good thing for you and the Grey Wardens.

On first glance the legion make sense, basically WH slayers with more practical protection, but when you think about it, it is insanely counterproductive allowing females to serve as each one captured could spawn hundreds of new enemies. Female human fighters on the otherhand made a lot more sense in universe, due to healing magic making pregnancy less of a focus and Andraste being a major rolemodel.

This, "modern" writers forget that no one sees themselves as the villain. Motivations matter, even if it was just 'getting even' like Howe.
One little touch I loved was Bhelen was pragmatic enough to send troops to the surface to stop the archdemon, but dwarven enough to make sure they kept their helmets on to avoid being "skytouched"

His decisions are good for dwarfkind, but would make him powerful enemies. The warrior caste would hate him for breaking their monopoly on the use of force, the nobles would hate him for upturning the applecart.

Sending females of any kind to fight darkspawn is like sending a whore to a dock during shore leave, as IIRC broodmothers spawn of different races give birth to specific darkspawn. I believe broodmothers of Qunari origin birth only ogres, for example.

Then again. it probably doesn't matter. The current crew at BioWare will probably say the broodmother origin is just evil dwarf propaganda, and broodmothers are actually the sage matriarchs of a misunderstood colonized race and that Grey Wardens and dwarf colonials are comparable to filthy Conquistadors plundering the verdant resources of these poor darkspawns that only want to live in peace.
 
If you are a peasant dwarf, Bhelen is your sister's sugar daddy, so there's no reason not to support him. Having a king wrapped around your sister's thumb, and this sister adores you - that's a good thing for you and the Grey Wardens.



Sending females of any kind to fight darkspawn is like sending a whore to a dock during shore leave, as IIRC broodmothers spawn of different races give birth to specific darkspawn. I believe broodmothers of Qunari origin birth only ogres, for example.

Then again. it probably doesn't matter. The current crew at BioWare will probably say the broodmother origin is just evil dwarf propaganda, and broodmothers are actually the sage matriarchs of a misunderstood colonized race and that Grey Wardens and dwarf colonials are comparable to filthy Conquistadors plundering the verdant resources of these poor darkspawns that only want to live in peace.
Surprisingly, they honestly haven't done that with the darkspawn. They came much closer to doing that in Awakening with the Architect. Whereas in DA2 and Inquisition, whenever you fight darkspawn, the scenes and the codexes really don't give that impression at least to me.

(Probably because the darkspawn are difficult to tie to a real life race or ethnicity as opposed the elves or Qunari).

I agree though they have backed away from the broodmother lore stuff.
 
I agree though they have backed away from the broodmother lore stuff.
I’m sure it has nothing to do with a chunk of Bioware’s current staff likely looking like the Broodmother in the first place…

The Broodmother being axed the second Bioware went into peak Current Yearism should surprise no one - as is, you all know if Origins released today Bhelen would be the most obvious Trump expy yet. I shudder at what they’d likely do to Loghain…
 
It was genuinely depressing what happens to your mom in DA2. The fact that she never gets to live in the fancy home with you is gut wrenching imo
 
I'd disagree a bit. If he craves power above all else wouldn't the extremely rigid top-down political structure of the dwarves basically do that?
Dwarven system benefits nobles as a whole, with Assembly they wield considerable power. I don't think it's ever stated how much exactly but if they elect king, they can likely obstruct him as well.
I feel like they go a bit too far with Bhelen with the comically evil tyrant shtick when he is also always making the right decision on a macro scale. Him being a backstabbing cunt willing to do any kind of shady shit to get in power makes sense but when he's laughing and executing people immediately it feels retarded. There's two characters, on-screen Bhelen and off-screen Bhelen and they don't really jive.
Agreed, I never understood why exactly he ordered execution of lord Harrowmont and then proceeded to assassinate rest of his house. Most of his other intrigues make sense in context of dwarven politics but execution of respected noble just because he opposed his election do not.
 
I remember Bhelen opening up trade with the surface or something, too. Or more trade. There's also the fact that he gives casteless dwarves rights in exchange for fighting darkspawn. Kinda similar to the legion of the dead.
If a Dwarf Warden requests military aid for Orzammar against the darkspawn as a boon, Bhelen allows surfacers to send military expeditions into the deep roads while Harrowmont only allows a few additional medical supplies to be sent.

On first glance the legion make sense, basically WH slayers with more practical protection, but when you think about it, it is insanely counterproductive allowing females to serve as each one captured could spawn hundreds of new enemies. Female human fighters on the otherhand made a lot more sense in universe, due to healing magic making pregnancy less of a focus and Andraste being a major rolemodel.
I think in the Provings celebrating your commission as a Dwarf Noble, the announcer can complain about a woman fighting in the provings and a Dwarf Noble Warden can join him in that, so it's possible that it originally intended that female dwarf warriors were rarer than they ended up being.
 
I'm replaying DA2 atm, and while it's not as bad as people make it out to be (it's actually pretty good overall IMO), I've been reminded just how significant the main flaws are.

1. The wave based combat is absolutely fucking retarded. Sometimes it makes sense, and it does happen in Origins a couple times, but in this it's nearly every single battle, even in a tiny house niggers will jump from the ceiling like spiderman. It really just means you can't plan for battles unless you've already done them, and you don't have good spots for your ranged party members to stand, because the reinforcements always spawn encircling you. So the best strategy is usually to just run back across the map, away from the enemy spawn area.
It also makes some battles take fucking ages, which sucks if you need to replay them multiple times (Quentin).

2. The map reuse is just pathetic. It's already set in one area, so they have an excuse to reuse the Kirkwall maps, but again, it's done every single time. There are like 4 dungeon layouts that are reused EVERYWHERE. These aren't even random encounters, these are main quest dungeons. It's a joke.

3. Dialog options are just non existent, and the text tends to not match up with what Hawke actually says. You get something like "Templars are necessary" then Hawke goes on a rant about Total Mage Death and shoves Anders in a locker. The way its done makes it very weird to switch between the different "types", even if it's the only option that fits what you actually want to say. It makes Hawke sound like a bipolar schizo because he does a completely different voice for each option.

4. Not being able to execute Isabella or side with the Qunari. The Arishok is just too based, and Isabella is a ratchet ass ho.

There's also some other issues I've found out about now I'm playing on Nightmare this time:

1. The friendly fire on nightmare is absolutely horrific. The usual stuff applies, don't drop fireballs at your feet and what not. But the issue is that basically every talent that can hit multiple targets will inflict friendly fire. Even things like Mind Blast, Fenris' Spirit Pulse thing, Miasmic Flask, etc. Really limits their use a lot, especially when they aren't even that good to begin with (miasmic flask gets resisted or lasts 3 seconds). Though really the bigger issue is that all the 2H melee talents are AoE with FF. So you basically can never use Mighty Blow or Scythe without careful micro, unless you want your entire party wiped in 1 second flat.
Also Scythe seems to have a lingering AoE. I've used it, animation stops, Fenris runs up to fight a few seconds later, he drops dead instantly. Very annoying.
Apparently there used to be FF from just auto attacks, but it seems like that was removed with one of the patches, thank God.

2. Gear options are shallow it seems. There's not many unique armour sets or weapons, especially compared to Origins, so there's a lot of mix 'n matching random generic pieces until you get the intended class set for the act. Sounds like it will make replaying pretty lame.

Honestly you should probably just play on Hard if you want to actually be able to use abilities and have fun.

Apart from that it's pretty fun. I don't think the story is that bad, even if you are railroaded a lot (doesn't even make sense to hate mages because of your family background). The combat is quite rewarding and still takes strategy and proper character builds to win on higher difficulties. The talents are quite nice and the cross-class combo stuff is an interesting idea, though its kind of half-baked and not really necessary.
I think my favorite part of the game is when that Hunger Rock Wraith in the deep roads tries to make a deal with you, and if you refuse, Hawke just punches it in the face for no reason.
That or Anders writing a reddit manifesto of arguments about why mages are le good and you can call him a retard.
Or Merril
 
Not sure if it was posted already but apparently that's how ogres look like now.
dragon-age-the-veilguard-content-kolo-wyboru.jpg
 
Sending females of any kind to fight darkspawn is like sending a whore to a dock during shore leave, as IIRC broodmothers spawn of different races give birth to specific darkspawn. I believe broodmothers of Qunari origin birth only ogres, for example.
Civilian women can be abducted too and Denerim needed anyone who knew how to fight to defend against the blight that would have ended everything.
Sending females on suicide missions into the darkspawn's own territory is a whole different level of insanity.
If you are a peasant dwarf, Bhelen is your sister's sugar daddy, so there's no reason not to support him. Having a king wrapped around your sister's thumb, and this sister adores you - that's a good thing for you and the Grey Wardens.
This, and no matter your origin, you are elevated to a Paragon, basically the most admired dwarf alive.
You all know if Origins released today Bhelen would be the most obvious Trump expy yet. I shudder at what they’d likely do to Loghain…
  • Likes the ladies, but still takes responsibility? Check
  • Willing to give up a life of safe luxury to save his country? Check
  • A tricksy dealmaker? Check
  • Appeals to the marginalised poor instead of the privileged establishment? Check
  • Rejects stiffling identity politics? Check.
I never understood why exactly he ordered execution of lord Harrowmont and then proceeded to assassinate rest of his house.
In Ancient China a dancing monkey refused to perform, so the owner slaughtered a chicken to scare it into obeying. They still say 杀鸡儆猴 today. Harrowmont's the Chicken.
2. The map reuse is just pathetic. It's already set in one area, so they have an excuse to reuse the Kirkwall maps, but again, it's done every single time. There are like 4 dungeon layouts that are reused EVERYWHERE. These aren't even random encounters, these are main quest dungeons. It's a joke.
This, this is why I skipped most of DA2
 
Does anyone know when the red lyrium stuff being just darkspawn lyrium was revealed? I never really understood that because the Primeval Thaig is said to be not only pre-blights but pre-memories as well. And it's meant to be completely untouched when you get there in DA2, so that also makes it a bit odd as to why the taint would've infected the lyrium there.
Has there even been a good explanation for the thaig since DA2 released?
 
I think someone posted this UI, but eh... I remember when the Ogre first showed up in Origins and I was amazed. I was shocked and felt I was screwed.

This looks like something I'd expect from a Disney Channel cartoon.
The Ogre in DA:O were awesome as shit.
I remember when you first faced one at Ostragar and you went "oh shit, i am fucked".
 
It was genuinely depressing what happens to your mom in DA2. The fact that she never gets to live in the fancy home with you is gut wrenching imo
Gamlen's (another character modern Bioware would shriek at) reaction really sells it. I do love the entire build up of that storyline, but I hate how, without the Legacy DLC, your mother and her death is basically never mentioned again, even when you find proof that Orseno was funding the guy responsible.
 
Does anyone know when the red lyrium stuff being just darkspawn lyrium was revealed? I never really understood that because the Primeval Thaig is said to be not only pre-blights but pre-memories as well. And it's meant to be completely untouched when you get there in DA2, so that also makes it a bit odd as to why the taint would've infected the lyrium there.
Has there even been a good explanation for the thaig since DA2 released?

Lyrium is revealed to be Titan blood; red lyrium was revealed to be lyrium infected with the taint; therefore somewhere out there -- presumably partly comprising the Primeval Thaig -- is a tainted Titan, which is really quite terrifying.

This was left as one of the many cliffhangers that they've taken a decade to resolve, left to the tender mercies of the goons making Veilguard. The answer will almost certainly be a letdown.
 
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