Dragon Age: The Veilguard - A woke disaster? Yep!

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Are u woke enough for this game?

  • Hell yeah, I want play it with my wife's son

    Votes: 170 9.4%
  • Nope, I need to suck more girlcock first

    Votes: 393 21.8%
  • Yasss, I identify as an autistic dwarf of color

    Votes: 377 20.9%
  • Nah, I rather play Fallout76

    Votes: 862 47.8%

  • Total voters
    1,803
True, I forgot that 2005 was New Bioware. Did you forget you were talking about Jade Empire? lmao
I wouldn't lump in Jade Empire or even Mass Effect into this category, this was still old Bioware. I would say the rot started explicitly with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age: Origins, as those were made specifically for the console peasants. Funnily enough, the latter is probably their last, great game, and since every DA since then been a flop with an identity crisis it was probably by accident.
 
Mass Effect is just a spiritual successor to KOTOR much like Dragon Age is to Baldur's Gate
Excuse me, but that's silly. Sure, both take place in space and that's about it, gameplay, plot and setting vary widely.

Star Wars being essentially a fairytale, KOTOR is basically fantasy game, while Mass Effect is hard-ish Sci-Fi.
KOTOR is a RtwP-RPG with proper dialogue trees, ME is a cover-shooter with RPG elements and a dialogue wheel.
KOTOR is a galaxy-wide religious conflict between the forces of good and evil, ME is an ancient evil awakening to threaten all sentient life in the galaxy.

How is ME a spiritual successor of KOTOR?
 
How is ME a spiritual successor of KOTOR?
What do you mean? You explained it pretty well. ME isn't a spiritual remaster of the first game, it is a successor, ie what the devs wanted to explore and experiment with that kind of setting but couldn't due to the IP and technological limitations of the time. You're not naive enough to think people weren't expecting KOTOR3 when the game was announced, do you?
 
Excuse me, but that's silly. Sure, both take place in space and that's about it, gameplay, plot and setting vary widely.

Star Wars being essentially a fairytale, KOTOR is basically fantasy game, while Mass Effect is hard-ish Sci-Fi.
KOTOR is a RtwP-RPG with proper dialogue trees, ME is a cover-shooter with RPG elements and a dialogue wheel.
KOTOR is a galaxy-wide religious conflict between the forces of good and evil, ME is an ancient evil awakening to threaten all sentient life in the galaxy.

How is ME a spiritual successor of KOTOR?

ME being hard sci-fi is like a pooner in a leather jacket saying she is le hecking valid dood.

It is a more fantasy normie scifi vs normie scifi with less fantasy with a few more science words put in.

Even the rgb colored alien strippers in both have tentacles for hair.
 
You're not naive enough to think people weren't expecting KOTOR3 when the game was announced, do you?
I certainly wasn't. Also, by the same logic, anything can be a spiritual successor to everything.

ME being hard sci-fi is like a pooner in a leather jacket saying she is le hecking valid dood.
That's why I said "hard-ish". Sure it's not scientifically accurate or anything, but there's no literal space magic unlike KOTOR.
 
That's why I said "hard-ish". Sure it's not scientifically accurate or anything, but there's no literal space magic unlike KOTOR.
You could argue that Biotics is basically space magic, but I still have no clue what the hell @30+GameOvers is on about by calling it a spiritual successor, or the response he gave me, when the thing we were both responding to was:
It was a good sign that Bioware doesn't have much going for it without a big IP
He completely danced around addressing this nonsensical point he made.
 
"Spiritual successor", as per the definition of that term, indicates that Mass Effect is supposed to be inspired by KOTOR and yeah, I don't see it.

Most in your face is how Mass Effect is a military space opera, while the only military thing about Star Wars is the bad guys that to this day still can't aim properly for dear life.
 
"Spiritual successor", as per the definition of that term, indicates that Mass Effect is supposed to be inspired by KOTOR and yeah, I don't see it.
Even if it were, that's completely besides the point. Both Mass Effect and Dragon Age are fairly derivative works, but that a successful IP does not make. The success of the initial games in both series is largely due to merit. There was no pre-established IP propping them up in either case. The only thing that gave them a leg up is Bioware's prior reputation being very good, but that's it.
 
I really tried to come up with a argument that Mass Effect is a KOTOR spiritual successor but it really doesn't make any sense. People already pointed out the combat is completely different, but the writing really isn't all that close either. There's a few things like how the main story is about someone working for the main ruling council going rogue and having to hunt them down and how some character like Mission/Tali and Canderous/Wrex are similar personality wise but in the end it's all so vague that it doesn't feel fair to make the claim.
 
Even if it were, that's completely besides the point. Both Mass Effect and Dragon Age are fairly derivative works, but that a successful IP does not make. The success of the initial games in both series is largely due to merit. There was no pre-established IP propping them up in either case. The only thing that gave them a leg up is Bioware's prior reputation being very good, but that's it.
Both games are VERY derivative and full of tropes of their genres. However, they work because they give great immersion effects. The game takes time to let you go from low runt to hero of the day over the course of the game - there is the initial supposedly normal day in your life goes horrifically awry, finding allies and bonding with them through shared experiences, and finally, smashing the enemy in a grand finale.

Admittedly, both first games in each franchise don't have the best final boss confrontations, but the journey there is great. That is what most fans remember the most playing those games. Sure, the gameplay may have issues, the story may have plot holes, but they felt that they were there in the game, they lived it, and damn, they loved the whole experience.

Present day BioWare, or most other studios, don't do that kind of slow-burn build-up anymore sadly.
 
Both games are VERY derivative and full of tropes of their genres. However, they work because they give great immersion effects. The game takes time to let you go from low runt to hero of the day over the course of the game - there is the initial supposedly normal day in your life goes horrifically awry, finding allies and bonding with them through shared experiences, and finally, smashing the enemy in a grand finale.

Admittedly, both first games in each franchise don't have the best final boss confrontations, but the journey there is great. That is what most fans remember the most playing those games. Sure, the gameplay may have issues, the story may have plot holes, but they felt that they were there in the game, they lived it, and damn, they loved the whole experience.

Present day BioWare, or most other studios, don't do that kind of slow-burn build-up anymore sadly.
I think the greatest casualty by far is the sanding down of any and real conflict in the fictional setting used to set these games. Mass Effect died before its corpse could be raped, but you can see it in full force in Guntguard, where nu-Thedas is this hecking wholesome place where everyone gets along for some reason but there's still bad guys because its a fantasy game.

Safe edgy indeed.
 
Mass Effect plays homage to a lot of things. The uniforms in ME1 are reminiscent of earlier sci fi(Ashley’s pink uniform and helmet is so seventies pulp sci fi). With the Asari very much a homage to Trek aliens.

ME2 feels a lot more cyberpunkish. As well s playing homage to eighties action movies. Whereas ME3 is just classic space opera with all the tropes that has.

What makes ME stand out-is it’s basically the only space opera IP that came out recently. Dune and SW exist but those are movie franchises and they are also decades old. Halo is a military sci fi shooter and thus isn’t the same genre as ME.

I think the greatest casualty by far is the sanding down of any and real conflict in the fictional setting used to set these games. Mass Effect died before its corpse could be raped, but you can see it in full force in Guntguard, where nu-Thedas is this hecking wholesome place where everyone gets along for some reason but there's still bad guys because its a fantasy game.

Safe edgy indeed.
Dragon Age ran into the problem its most enthusiastic fanbase are tumblr fan girls that are want wholesome coffee house fiction and a minimum of discomfort. There is plenty of savage brutality, gloom, and melancholy in DA*-but its main audience just wants to “smooch their elf girlfriends” and pet baby griffons. Because that’s what Origins was all about.

*I’ve seen YouTube videos from the late 2000s/early 2010s where there was at least a little overlap between DA fans and 40K fans.

If you pay attention to the setting it’s not actually hard to see why. A grim fantasy setting with plenty of racism, rape, evil monsters underground ravaging civilization, hell-even mages being at risk of possession necessitating harsh treatment and separation from the rest of society.

None of this goes away as much as it’s simply shoved under the proverbial carpet by Inquisition(which puts the really dark stuff in either codex entries, war table missions, or bits of dialogue referring to third hand accounts). And it’s basically the same in DAV-culminating in southern thedas being wiped out in a turbo blight. Yet the tone of the game doesn’t show this at all.

The setting of dragon age is very grim, miserable and hope is in short supply-but since Inquisition, the way it has been framed(both in the writing and art direction) is a generic noble high fantasy setting.

Which to me shows both the preferences of the fandom, and BioWare’s gradual subsuming into general wokeism.

You could easily re write DAI and even DA4 as Origins esque super violent games without changing their basic plot beats, it’s just how they are framed and presented.**

**DA2 is interesting. In that it doesn’t feel as dark as origins-hell it’s the only case where the “found family” trope actually works. The story is a tragedy, and the art does a decent job of demonstrating the sort of oppressive weight Hawke is under-but it has a sort of zesty enthusiasm in it that Origins lacks. It’s a grim and sad game, but not a dark game if that makes sense?

TLDR: DA’s problem is the writers wanted wholesome comfy vibes and the audience(mostly-the audience the writers cared to pander too) did as well. One can easily imagine an alternate universe where the DA franchise remains seen as a dark fantasy thing.
 
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So speaking of acting, who are everyone’s favorite VAs or if you don’t know that the best acted scenes in the series?
Neither voice my favorite characters, Leliana and Merrill, but Blum (not Bloom!) and Black, in Mass Effect as well (alongside Hale and Hilis). But only up to Dragon Age II, ME3 has memorable dialog, but mostly for the wrong reasons, and the only thing I remember of DAI is when whatsherface explains why she doesn't pronounce Corypheus correctly. Haven't played anything beyond those.

DA2 is thus the most unique and I’d say the best story.
Yeah Bioware was trying some cool stuff with II, like a more unique art style, even the music using more unique orchestrations, or your Hawk's design influencing those of their family members as well. Too bad EA fucked it all up. Can't really blame ME3 and up on them though.

unlike Dragon Age: Origins where you have full control over your companions' actions and decisions, here you can't.
I wouldn't say full control, but it sure was there, gameplay-wise too, in the form of tactics, that were super-simplified and often ignored in II, and an utter mess and even more ignored in I.

Those people you're describing made Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, and Dragon Age Inquisition
As others have said, II is more of EA's fault, re Talkative Man.

I would say the rot started explicitly with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age: Origins
I think the current rot started with Origins' DLCs after Awakening. And sure ME2 streamlined a lot of 1's RPG elements and exploration, but the former was never that deep or fun (unlike Origins), and most of the latter was just mere annoyance so I'd say it was somewhat worth the update in aesthetics and narrative.

Sorry for the long sperg.
 
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I checked actually-Corinne Kempa(Leliana’s actress) isn’t really in that much.

She has such a lovely voice, I genuinely don’t understand why she hasn’t done at least as much voice acting as Joe Wyatt(female Hawke).

Claudia Black is obviously a successful actress, as is Brian Bloom, Solas actor(I forgot it is George David Lloyd or something else?) isn’t that well known to the best of my knowledge.

Meredith’s actress apparently was in some show or something, and is well regarded. I’m honestly surprised Anders(DA2)’ VA isn’t that well known either.
 
I checked actually-Corinne Kempa(Leliana’s actress) isn’t really in that much.

She has such a lovely voice, I genuinely don’t understand why she hasn’t done at least as much voice acting as Joe Wyatt(female Hawke).

Claudia Black is obviously a successful actress, as is Brian Bloom, Solas actor(I forgot it is George David Lloyd or something else?) isn’t that well known to the best of my knowledge.

Meredith’s actress apparently was in some show or something, and is well regarded. I’m honestly surprised Anders(DA2)’ VA isn’t that well known either.
I've done this (for other actors) and have come to the conclusion that most voice talent, even some of the more well known ones, seem to have more humble lives and careers than screen actors.
 
I know they wanted to do something radically different but it's so weird that the Warden, Hawk, and the Inquisitor are all canonically still alive and none of them showed up in Veilguard.

It's especially weird that the Inquisitor is just completely absent considering that Veilguard is a direct sequel to Inquisition's Trespasser DLC.
 
I know they wanted to do something radically different but it's so weird that the Warden, Hawk, and the Inquisitor are all canonically still alive and none of them showed up in Veilguard.

It's especially weird that the Inquisitor is just completely absent considering that Veilguard is a direct sequel to Inquisition's Trespasser DLC.
Presumably they couldn't figure out how to map the "Male" or "Female" Warden/Hawke/Inquisitor to "Body Type A" or "Body Type B" and was just easier to leave them out.
 
You could argue that Biotics is basically space magic
It more or less is, but there's still a "scientific" explanation for it, even though it's a little iffy.
Presumably they couldn't figure out how to map the "Male" or "Female" Warden/Hawke/Inquisitor to "Body Type A" or "Body Type B" and was just easier to leave them out.
I think it does have to do with them not being able to figure out how to import the character models from game to game. Sure. DA:O and 2 technically ran on the same engine, but for 2 it was so heavily tweaked that they renamed it. And Frostbite is notoriously hard to work with, and BioWare wasn't familiar with it, on top of that. Remember, they had trouble importing Shepards from ME2 to 3, and both of those games ran on the Unreal Engine.
 
A "scientific" iffy explanation for space magic? Reminds me of this thing called midichlorians.

Eh, element zero is much better explained than midichlorians. Also, it's there from the jump, not shoehorned in 16 years after the last installment.
 
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