Can Islam ever be reformed? - *rates optimistic*

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Will there be a positive reformation?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Maybe

  • ALLAHU ACKBAR

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Piss Clam said:
I'm not much of a relgious scholar being agnostic, but the first testement was pretty harsh, while the second seemed to me as a reformation into love they neighbor.

One would hope that there would be a person who could rise up in Islam and seperate the religion from poltics. Political islam is what is really killing the religion today and more muslims die by muslim hands than anyone else.
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The problem goes back to the founding principle/principal, in both senses of those words.

Judaism was the original covenant between Yahweh and the Jewish people, which already got softened after their return from Babylonian captivity. Still required you observe Jewish religious law, but the entry requirements were reduced from the extreme exclusion imposed by the first version of the covenant.

However, compared to Islam, the bar for entry just means you have to observe Jewish religious if not political customs.

Christianity lowered the bar further, with Jesus outright saying temporal authority and spiritual authority were separate spheres and the bar to entry for Christianity is even lower than Judaism, merely requiring you accept the general gist of it's whole point, with following the customs of the old covenant being optional, but if you would like to, bonus points, but there is no need to adhere to the Jewish specific parts even then.

Islam, however, does not draw a line between Man's Law and God's Law. They go hand in hand like the first version of the Jewish covenant did, and the only way to prevent that from becoming an issue as a devout believer for most is to live where Islam is both temporal and spiritual law in both law and custom.

It's not impossible to be an observant Muslim while not living under an Islamic theocracy, but it's very structure and teaching expect that framework to exist, and most of it's hardliners insist the two should be joined at the hip.

In short, the key issue here is that if Islam is to coexist in the modern world, it has got to do as it's antecedents did and accept you do not need Man to enforce God's law, that's is between God and Man, but try telling most Muslims this where it is both law and custom for the will of Allah to be enforced by government decree and you'll see why this is not an easy thing to ask.
 
Senior Lexmechanic said:
So a Protestant Reformation for Muslims?
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Only there isn’t anything to protest against. As was said by multiple people earlier, the distinctions that make something like that possible for Christianity are verbotten in Islam. It’s important to note that the major schism for Islam comes from a succession crisis as opposed to Christianity’s doctrinal disputes.
 
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Corypheus said:
Only there isn’t anything to protest against. As was said by multiple people earlier, the distinctions that make something like that possible for Christianity are verbotten in Islam. It’s important to note that the major schism for Islam comes from a succession crisis as opposed to Christianity’s doctrinal disputes.
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Exactly. The dividing line between the Shia and Sunni Muslims is over who was the proper caliph to succeed Muhammed.

Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman were the first three caliphs over the Islamic community and the first three successors to Muhammed that both sides will agree were proper successors.

The fault line began with Ali, the fourth caliph, and Hasan, his successor, after Ali was killed in a civil war, abdicated to Mu'awiyah in an attempt to stop the fight, with one string attached: Mu'awiyah not name his own successor.

Mu'awiyah did just that.

The main dispute's crux is that the Sunni don't care who the first few leaders were so long as they obeyed the will of Allah, while the Shia were fans of Ali and thought he and his successors were the legit successors.

The unfortunate part about this schism is that it's not easily solved, not helped by literal millennia of genealogists on both sides of the debate autistically screeching about who was legit, and many Muslim polities until present day weren't above BSing about family ties to Muhammed to pad out their legitimacy, further muddying the waters.

The doctrinal disputes are likely mostly acclimated to to some degree, but as I do not know the nitty gritty from a Muslim perspective, I cannot speak as to what degree exactly, but the real problem is the key dispute mentioned above has driven a permanent wedge between the two sects.

If this were to somehow be resolved, it might lead to an easing of tensions within the Muslim world that might have a positive effect on the non Muslim world, but it would be doubtful as to whether it would moderate Islam's more odious interactions with the non-Muslim world to any measurable extreme.

There are other differences that set the two further apart, with the Shia being much more down with martyrdom as being an honor (as they considered their chosen leaders being assassinated a rallying cry), not to mention they have some moderate disagreements over doctrines and holy sites, but the linchpin of the matter is that the Shia believed a certain line of succession should have happened, the Sunni care more that their leaders obey Allah's will, regardless whom they might be.
 
GethN7 said:
The doctrinal disputes are likely mostly acclimated to to some degree, but as I do not know the nitty gritty from a Muslim perspective, I cannot speak as to what degree exactly, but the real problem is the key dispute mentioned above has driven a permanent wedge between the two sects.
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A lot of the things that masquerade as doctrinal quarrels, especially in places like Iraq, are actually tribal conflicts that just happen to share a Sunni/Shia split as well. Some of these go back before Islam itself.
 
Senior Lexmechanic said:
1. "Scientific ideology": you don't know what you're talking about. Science has no ideology: it exists to present the facts of the world as they are and create structures that explain it. Something tells me that you're just angry that biology contradicts a literal Creation.
2. Imams have argued on television that smartphones, fidget spinners, areospace programs, the internet, and automobiles are all haram. On a related note: do you think it is possible for man to travel to space?
3. Every culture is based on haram practices. I am Scandinavian; the history of my people for countless thousands of years was transmitted by the Sagas (which are haram, as they were sung) and by the carvings placed upon the menhir (which were also haram, as they almost universally included carvings of living creatures). The culture of the Arabs was transmitted orally through song as well. Without the arts of painting living things and crafting sculptures, we would not know about how many people of the past dressed, how they looked, how fashions changed over time, what they valued, and many other things. If all of these things were destroyed, the thread that connects people to their cultural practices would be severed. This is what I mean when I say that to have a culture is haram. I cannot believe the Supreme Being would want people to sacrifice things that are beautiful and elevate the human spirit. (In reference to story-telling being haram, I have seen imam argue that because lying is haram, telling a story that is not something that happened- that is to say, all of fiction- is haram as well.)
4. You can never say Israel and people can still understand what you mean. We aren't all stupid.

Other things that you must address: learned men of your faith have said that for a man to feel love for his wife is haram, that muslims must hate all non-muslims, that all atheists should be killed, that all Jews should be killed, that celebrating birthdays is haram, that making a "smiley face" like so :) is haram, that spending any time in lesiure is haram, and that countless other things are haram. This is another way that the form of Islam you say is pure and perfect is an enemy of culture; by these decrees, nine-tenths of all cultural behaviors are haram. In addition, do not many of these rulings contradict the words of Muhammad? From what I know, Muhammad said that Christians and Jews deserve respect as other followers of the Book. Does not a command to hate all non-Muslims and a command to kill all Jews run counter to this?
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1: I probably included that with the other points mentioned such as 'economic' and 'philosophic' creating the claim that there are different sub-categories in all of them, including science. "Something tells me that you're just angry that biology contradicts a literal Creation." Nope. Science is not eternal while 'literal creation' is. In fact, Science exists to explain natural events which compliments my religion.
2: "Imams have.." the beginning of your statement debunks itself automatically. There are Imams that have the opinion to ban Chess, There are Imams who suggest that the Minarets and Domes are innovations, There are Imams that say that the Earth is flat, and there are Imams who say it isn't flat { https://islamqa.info/en/211655 }. Point in being, Different Imams have Different fatwas and opinions on the Islamic religion to balance it out from not leaning towards one set of ideas. ''do you think it is possible for man to travel to space?'' Looking at the Technological advancements we have achieved, yes.
3: "Every culture is based on haram practices." Wrong. As stated above, and I quote again,
Definition of culture
1a : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (such as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time. - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/culture
An Indian Traditional Dress or a Roman one, or a Persian one etc. are all not considered haram. Similarly, Indian Food, American Food, or whatever national/cultural food there are, are not considered haram. I already stated that Islam differentiates between the culture to remove the bad (Haram) aspects of it. e.g You;

"the history of my people for countless thousands of years was transmitted by the Sagas (which are haram, as they were sung) and by the carvings placed upon the menhir (which were also haram, as they almost universally included carvings of living creatures). The culture of the Arabs was transmitted orally through song as well. Without the arts of painting living things and crafting sculptures, we would not know about how many people of the past dressed, how they looked, how fashions changed over time, what they valued, and many other things. If all of these things were destroyed, the thread that connects people to their cultural practices would be severed. This is what I mean when I say that to have a culture is haram. I cannot believe the Supreme Being would want people to sacrifice things that are beautiful and elevate the human spirit. (In reference to story-telling being haram, I have seen imam argue that because lying is haram, telling a story that is not something that happened- that is to say, all of fiction- is haram as well.)" You would have understood this if you knew what the Islamic Thinking on this matter was. hint: search up Jahilliyyah .

"I cannot believe the Supreme Being would want people to sacrifice things that are beautiful and elevate the human spirit." Oh please, enough with that secularization and liberalism of Religious thought. You would rather say "I cannot believe a supreme being will send people to hell" or the like in this case. A father will remove a thing ,that is in essence harmful, from a kid. Even if the kid likes it and "elevates the human spirit".

4: lol but in reality, I never mentioned Israel to begin with. Stop with putting Words in my mouth that I never meant. If you want to talk about Israel, be my guest.

"learned men of your faith have said that for a man to feel love for his wife is haram" > http://darulfiqh.com/the-romantic-prophet-how-to-be-romantic-your-spouse/
spare me your idiocy and learn something for once. You are equating Killing Atheists to Drawing Smiley Faces. If You'd only see your comment at this point.

"Does not a command to hate all non-Muslims and a command to kill all Jews run counter to this?" At first you state something completely wrong then try to ask for a solution or answer to it. Again, Read some Islamic Texts and Fiqh, before you post uneducated claims.
 
guluboy17 said:
1: I probably included that with the other points mentioned such as 'economic' and 'philosophic' creating the claim that there are different sub-categories in all of them, including science. "Something tells me that you're just angry that biology contradicts a literal Creation." Nope. Science is not eternal while 'literal creation' is. In fact, Science exists to explain natural events which compliments my religion.
2: "Imams have.." the beginning of your statement debunks itself automatically. There are Imams that have the opinion to ban Chess, There are Imams who suggest that the Minarets and Domes are innovations, There are Imams that say that the Earth is flat, and there are Imams who say it isn't flat { https://islamqa.info/en/211655 }. Point in being, Different Imams have Different fatwas and opinions on the Islamic religion to balance it out from not leaning towards one set of ideas. ''do you think it is possible for man to travel to space?'' Looking at the Technological advancements we have achieved, yes.
3: "Every culture is based on haram practices." Wrong. As stated above, and I quote again,
Definition of culture
1a : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (such as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time. - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/culture
An Indian Traditional Dress or a Roman one, or a Persian one etc. are all not considered haram. Similarly, Indian Food, American Food, or whatever national/cultural food there are, are not considered haram. I already stated that Islam differentiates between the culture to remove the bad (Haram) aspects of it. e.g You;

"the history of my people for countless thousands of years was transmitted by the Sagas (which are haram, as they were sung) and by the carvings placed upon the menhir (which were also haram, as they almost universally included carvings of living creatures). The culture of the Arabs was transmitted orally through song as well. Without the arts of painting living things and crafting sculptures, we would not know about how many people of the past dressed, how they looked, how fashions changed over time, what they valued, and many other things. If all of these things were destroyed, the thread that connects people to their cultural practices would be severed. This is what I mean when I say that to have a culture is haram. I cannot believe the Supreme Being would want people to sacrifice things that are beautiful and elevate the human spirit. (In reference to story-telling being haram, I have seen imam argue that because lying is haram, telling a story that is not something that happened- that is to say, all of fiction- is haram as well.)" You would have understood this if you knew what the Islamic Thinking on this matter was. hint: search up Jahilliyyah .

"I cannot believe the Supreme Being would want people to sacrifice things that are beautiful and elevate the human spirit." Oh please, enough with that secularization and liberalism of Religious thought. You would rather say "I cannot believe a supreme being will send people to hell" or the like in this case. A father will remove a thing ,that is in essence harmful, from a kid. Even if the kid likes it and "elevates the human spirit".

4: lol but in reality, I never mentioned Israel to begin with. Stop with putting Words in my mouth that I never meant. If you want to talk about Israel, be my guest.

"learned men of your faith have said that for a man to feel love for his wife is haram" > http://darulfiqh.com/the-romantic-prophet-how-to-be-romantic-your-spouse/
spare me your idiocy and learn something for once. You are equating Killing Atheists to Drawing Smiley Faces. If You'd only see your comment at this point.

"Does not a command to hate all non-Muslims and a command to kill all Jews run counter to this?" At first you state something completely wrong then try to ask for a solution or answer to it. Again, Read some Islamic Texts and Fiqh, before you post uneducated claims.
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1. All scientific evidence points towards the Abrahamic account of the world being created over one week 8,000 years ago being false. Every new fact uncovered moves this account further away from being likely, not closer towards being likely. If I wanted to be a good Muslim, must I ignore this evidence and instead believe in the literal creation? Ibn Sina didn't seem to think so; but then again, Al-Ghazali was seen as victorious in that dispute, even though he refused the belief that an effect was caused by its cause!
2. Imam are meant to be learned men versed in the interpretation of the Koran and the commentaries, correct? So their words are not merely empty babble, yes? If the learned men of a faith say a thing, it should have some weight- otherwise, why even have them? And if these learned men en masse say things like "it is wicked to love another, for to do so risks you putting them before God" or that music and art is evil, and other such things, it has weight, yes?
3. A culture without the "Haram" things in it isn't the same culture anymore. Without the Louvre, opera, ballet, the philosophers, and so many other "Haram" things, France would not be France. It saddens my heart that you and your faith would cast such things on a pyre and cry out "We are righteous, we are virtuous!" As for such "secularization and liberalism", the attitudes I express are older than your entire faith. They are more conservative and spiritual than your own, but you refuse to recognize that, because to you, your faith is not only the greatest, it is so great that anyone who rejects it is a liar who must be converted at bladepoint.
4. I admit to equating it, because I believe every life has a value beyond as slaves to your god.
Again I tell you, go away: you will win no converts here.
 
Senior Lexmechanic said:
1. All scientific evidence points towards the Abrahamic account of the world being created over one week 8,000 years ago being false. Every new fact uncovered moves this account further away from being likely, not closer towards being likely. If I wanted to be a good Muslim, must I ignore this evidence and instead believe in the literal creation? Ibn Sina didn't seem to think so; but then again, Al-Ghazali was seen as victorious in that dispute, even though he refused the belief that an effect was caused by its cause!
2. Imam are meant to be learned men versed in the interpretation of the Koran and the commentaries, correct? So their words are not merely empty babble, yes? If the learned men of a faith say a thing, it should have some weight- otherwise, why even have them? And if these learned men en masse say things like "it is wicked to love another, for to do so risks you putting them before God" or that music and art is evil, and other such things, it has weight, yes?
3. A culture without the "Haram" things in it isn't the same culture anymore. Without the Louvre, opera, ballet, the philosophers, and so many other "Haram" things, France would not be France. It saddens my heart that you and your faith would cast such things on a pyre and cry out "We are righteous, we are virtuous!" As for such "secularization and liberalism", the attitudes I express are older than your entire faith. They are more conservative and spiritual than your own, but you refuse to recognize that, because to you, your faith is not only the greatest, it is so great that anyone who rejects it is a liar who must be converted at bladepoint.
4. I admit to equating it, because I believe every life has a value beyond as slaves to your god.
Again I tell you, go away: you will win no converts here.
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1: "All scientific evidence points towards the Abrahamic account of the world being created over one week 8,000 years ago being false." Thanks for admitting your ignorance. No where in Islamic Texts, if you actually studied it, does it say anything about what the False theological thinking of the Christians proclaim.
"If I wanted to be a good Muslim, must I ignore this evidence and instead believe in the literal creation?" You are merging two theological thinking together. We Are Not 'Christians', We Believe that Allah created the Universe and everything in it for us to glorify his signs and worship him. Not That he created this earth 8000 years ago etc. I suggest you read this article: https://www.thoughtco.com/creation-of-the-universe-2004201
"Ibn Sina didn't seem to think so; but then again, Al-Ghazali was seen as victorious in that dispute, even though he refused the belief that an effect was caused by its cause!"
What? Can you evaluate your claims here?

2: "Imam are meant to be learned men versed in the interpretation of the Koran and the commentaries, correct? So their words are not merely empty babble, yes? If the learned men of a faith say a thing, it should have some weight- otherwise, why even have them? And if these learned men en masse say things like "it is wicked to love another, for to do so risks you putting them before God" or that music and art is evil, and other such things, it has weight, yes?"
What are you implying? that this 'weight' equates them to the status of infallibility? Imams are as human as me and you. They have different opinions and suggestions concerning the faith. Imams also weigh all their opinions and claims under the Qur'an, Sunnah and Fiqh. So, if their 'weight' is claimed under those categories, it has this 'weight' otherwise, it's useless, empty and complete nothingness.

also: "And if these learned men en masse say things like "it is wicked to love another, for to do so risks you putting them before God"" Any articles or videos concerning this matter? knowing the ethics of Islam, which is loving God before anyone else, even if that is your mother, children or your wife, your statement looks misrepresented.

3: "A culture without the "Haram" things in it isn't the same culture anymore. Without the Louvre, opera, ballet, the philosophers, and so many other "Haram" things, France would not be France." That is the wisdom of God and creation. This modern world is, If you searched what I told you to search about, stuck in the Jahilliyyah age. The age of ignorance. Remember, This France also Legalizes Porn and other un-ethical characteristics as well. You also equate "Haram" things to all that is "good". Remember, Rape, Adultery, Murder, even Hate Speech is under the "Haram" Category.

"It saddens my heart that you and your faith would cast such things on a pyre and cry out "We are righteous, we are virtuous!" As for such "secularization and liberalism", the attitudes I express are older than your entire faith. They are more conservative and spiritual than your own, but you refuse to recognize that, because to you, your faith is not only the greatest, it is so great that anyone who rejects it is a liar who must be converted at bladepoint."

God has given a system for Mankind to Follow. In That System, Good and Evil has been established. We have been given the will to choose Good or Evil. Good Is All that God has proclaimed so, and Evil is all that God has proclaimed so. So, if destroying Idols, Banning Music, destroying a Culture that allows all these Haram practices is placed on the Good side of God's system, that is what it ultimately is. And I accept that 100% in so to please my Lord. There is no changing that, and there will never be a way to change that. Hope that answers your wary questions.

4:
>I admit to equating it, because I believe every life has a value beyond as slaves to your god.
>the attitudes I express are older than your entire faith. They are more conservative and spiritual than your own.
Your opinions and expressions at this point is kind of shaky don't you think?
Not so long ago, Slaves were slaves to humans, and that quote 'every life has a value beyond as slaves' will make you a laughing stock in that society at that time.
Hinduism, Mesopotamian, Zoroastrian and the like were present, you guessed it, in the Jahilliyyah Age. Therefore their beliefs, social norms are irrelevant, useless and not worthy t0 be learned. So saying stuff like how the way you think is older then my faith won't convince me or belittle me. Try educating yourself further, that's all i can say.
 
guluboy17 said:
1: "All scientific evidence points towards the Abrahamic account of the world being created over one week 8,000 years ago being false." Thanks for admitting your ignorance. No where in Islamic Texts, if you actually studied it, does it say anything about what the False theological thinking of the Christians proclaim.
"If I wanted to be a good Muslim, must I ignore this evidence and instead believe in the literal creation?" You are merging two theological thinking together. We Are Not 'Christians', We Believe that Allah created the Universe and everything in it for us to glorify his signs and worship him. Not That he created this earth 8000 years ago etc. I suggest you read this article: https://www.thoughtco.com/creation-of-the-universe-2004201
"Ibn Sina didn't seem to think so; but then again, Al-Ghazali was seen as victorious in that dispute, even though he refused the belief that an effect was caused by its cause!"
What? Can you evaluate your claims here?

2: "Imam are meant to be learned men versed in the interpretation of the Koran and the commentaries, correct? So their words are not merely empty babble, yes? If the learned men of a faith say a thing, it should have some weight- otherwise, why even have them? And if these learned men en masse say things like "it is wicked to love another, for to do so risks you putting them before God" or that music and art is evil, and other such things, it has weight, yes?"
What are you implying? that this 'weight' equates them to the status of infallibility? Imams are as human as me and you. They have different opinions and suggestions concerning the faith. Imams also weigh all their opinions and claims under the Qur'an, Sunnah and Fiqh. So, if their 'weight' is claimed under those categories, it has this 'weight' otherwise, it's useless, empty and complete nothingness.

also: "And if these learned men en masse say things like "it is wicked to love another, for to do so risks you putting them before God"" Any articles or videos concerning this matter? knowing the ethics of Islam, which is loving God before anyone else, even if that is your mother, children or your wife, your statement looks misrepresented.

3: "A culture without the "Haram" things in it isn't the same culture anymore. Without the Louvre, opera, ballet, the philosophers, and so many other "Haram" things, France would not be France." That is the wisdom of God and creation. This modern world is, If you searched what I told you to search about, stuck in the Jahilliyyah age. The age of ignorance. Remember, This France also Legalizes Porn and other un-ethical characteristics as well. You also equate "Haram" things to all that is "good". Remember, Rape, Adultery, Murder, even Hate Speech is under the "Haram" Category.

"It saddens my heart that you and your faith would cast such things on a pyre and cry out "We are righteous, we are virtuous!" As for such "secularization and liberalism", the attitudes I express are older than your entire faith. They are more conservative and spiritual than your own, but you refuse to recognize that, because to you, your faith is not only the greatest, it is so great that anyone who rejects it is a liar who must be converted at bladepoint."

God has given a system for Mankind to Follow. In That System, Good and Evil has been established. We have been given the will to choose Good or Evil. Good Is All that God has proclaimed so, and Evil is all that God has proclaimed so. So, if destroying Idols, Banning Music, destroying a Culture that allows all these Haram practices is placed on the Good side of God's system, that is what it ultimately is. And I accept that 100% in so to please my Lord. There is no changing that, and there will never be a way to change that. Hope that answers your wary questions.

4:
>I admit to equating it, because I believe every life has a value beyond as slaves to your god.
>the attitudes I express are older than your entire faith. They are more conservative and spiritual than your own.
Your opinions and expressions at this point is kind of shaky don't you think?
Not so long ago, Slaves were slaves to humans, and that quote 'every life has a value beyond as slaves' will make you a laughing stock in that society at that time.
Hinduism, Mesopotamian, Zoroastrian and the like were present, you guessed it, in the Jahilliyyah Age. Therefore their beliefs, social norms are irrelevant, useless and not worthy t0 be learned. So saying stuff like how the way you think is older then my faith won't convince me or belittle me. Try educating yourself further, that's all i can say.
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1. Now you equate drawing a smiley face to rape and murder!
2. That much is clear. If you believed that your God would be pleased by the brutal rape and murder of a child, you would do it in a heartbeat. You are a slave, scared of taking responsibility for yourself. I can only hope you will find peace in your next life.
It's clear that you're completely unwilling to have a discussion that isn't about how flawless and perfect your faith is. Be gone, I will no longer engage you.
 
Senior Lexmechanic said:
1. Now you equate drawing a smiley face to rape and murder!
2. That much is clear. If you believed that your God would be pleased by the brutal rape and murder of a child, you would do it in a heartbeat. You are a slave, scared of taking responsibility for yourself. I can only hope you will find peace in your next life.
It's clear that you're completely unwilling to have a discussion that isn't about how flawless and perfect your faith is. Be gone, I will no longer engage you.
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Lmao, wow ok. You are just pulling information out of thin air. Way to go, I suppose? Plus, I never stated so. Because that'll give me the death sentence you gullible fool. And fine, I won't discuss with you either, you go from topic to topic and it's my fault that I answer all your topics instead of staying on one.
 
At its core Islam is founded on one of the worst stories in the Old Testament. God said that Ishmael would be a wild ass of a man who will raise his hand against all his brothers and theirs against him. Since Islam draws from the same source material as the other Abrahamic religions, it must admit that it's flawed from the get go.

Also the whole marrying a child and fucking her a few years later, spreading your religion eagerly by the sword, and forbidding things like lifelike art and claiming your prophet flew up to heaven on a pegasus. It's like making a copy (Islam) of a copy (Christianity) of a copy (Zoroastrianism) of Judaism. After a while you start seeing some serious fragmentation. That and immediately after Muhammed's death you see infighting happen. Whereas in Buddhism there was a much smoother transition after his death (even if sects disagree about his very nature you don't really hear them killing each other), Islam splintered really hard with the Sunni/Shia thing.

Islam isn't capable of reform like Christianity since it's in a different era of its "dark ages" with technology at an almost alien level compared to when Christianity and Judaism were developed or in their dark ages. It enables terrorism and extremism to be much more wide reaching and violent compared t back in the day when violence was limited to sheer numbers of followers.

It's basically at a weird stage of development for humanity. Too late to reform, too early to wipe out completely. Basically the flu of religions.
 
The interview between Tommy Robinson and the Imam of Peace is a very interesting watch
 
Piss Clam said:
I'm not much of a relgious scholar being agnostic, but the first testement was pretty harsh, while the second seemed to me as a reformation into love they neighbor.

One would hope that there would be a person who could rise up in Islam and seperate the religion from poltics. Political islam is what is really killing the religion today and more muslims die by muslim hands than anyone else.
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The New Testament is no less harsh then the Old Testament, it just serves a different purpose. The Old Testament is all about God pwning people for not living up to his standards. The New Testament is to show everyone what the standard is. Of course, the standard is so perfect we could never live up to it so we literally kill the perfect man who is also an incarnation of God himself. But this is all part of the plan because the perfect man takes the sins of the world on his back so we don't have to meet that perfect standard and instead just have to emulate to the best of our ability. Those who don't get pwnt old testament style (Revelations).

This is also what allowed for Christianity to be reformed btw. When you acknowledge man is not perfect, you can extend such ideas to the institutions he builds, like the church. its a very bottom up sort of philosophy. Islam by contrast is top down. The Koran is perfect, therefore any institutions based upon the Koran's teachings are also perfect. If there is a problem with it, the problem is not the Korans teachings or the institutions around it. The problem is YOU. At best they can argue that people simply misunderstood the Koran, but even that is a stretch in that unlike Christianity, Islam comes fully packaged with a legal system, civil government, and societal organization.
 
I believe it can be.

Not all Muslims want to cut our heads off, hell one of my Muslim friends wants to join the army to combat terrorism
 
I think it's been pointed out enough, but the issue is that actual Islam, as taught in the Quran, can never be 'reformed', just like fundamental Biblical literalists are very unlikely to drop their beliefs. The only form of Islam that can coexist with modern society is a very lax, liberal version that is at odds with its own teachings.
 
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