Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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I don't know what fancy dollar stores you guys got but mine only got the 10 pack of d6.
One that doesn't sell dice. There was a time I was struggling to find affordable d6s.

All Actual Plays are soylennial cringe, right? I try to watch but I nope the fuck out so fast.
Yes. And so are most other people's games. Part of why I became a forever DM. Others kept fucking it up.

I did learn one valuable lesson from a Savage Worlds actual play, but even that wasn't good.

How do you personally handle basic cursed items (like -1/-2 cursed weapons, bags of devouring, etc).
How do you personally handle advanced cursed items (like poison cloaks or strangulation necklaces, poison potions, cursed scrolls of instant death or permanent stat drain etc).
How much do you usually charge players for their remove curse castings.
How much do you charge players to have their items and potions ID'd, or do you allow that at all?
Do you use cursed items at all or do you just ignore them in modules when you come across them?
Cursed items don't make the game fun. The first couple times players get burned, they just never use anything without identifying it.
I never found a good way to make magic identification fun.

I love cursed items. It's like how most players prefer +1 sword of whatevers, whereas I like items that give the player an interesting choice. A favourite of mine is a coin that gives advantage on a check, but their next check is disadvantage.

I don't use cursed items as loot though. I use them as plot devices and backstories. A PC has some curse they're questing to get rid of. A NPC has a curse and needs the PCs help to get rid of it. You can really have fun with the concept. Movies like Lier Lier, or even episodes of The Twilight Zone deal with such things. The problem is, as you pointed out, remove curse spells.
 
Yeah I wish I could find that specific video. I did find an image of a tweet that was promptly shat on and deleted out of embarrassment when looking for the video though.
View attachment 8784308

With replies pointing out that dollar tree has had polyhedral sets for years, Or just buying a d20 for 50 cents from the bulk bin at the counter of practically every game store that isn't just focused on cards(even a spindown would be better than nothing), or better yet if someone at the table really doesn't have some dice for whatever reason(lost them, left them at home, whatever) I've never seen a blanket refusal to just loan some dice. Especially since a lot of groups have that one guy who has a full crown royal bag with at least 40 partial polyhedral sets in it they've been gathering for 20 years, and is always far more dice than any D&D table will ever need.
1. Gatekeeping is good if the gate is so easy to get through it filters the worst retards by default
2. Who needs d20s anyway, d6 supremacy
3d6.png
 
Thanks, I appreciate the replies.

I am setting up an S&W campaign (hopefully a more long term campaign) and needed to figure out some pricing on things.

I think I have settled on;
Everything is subject to a default 200% increase in price. This can be affected by a simple 3d6 Charisma check to haggle and will result in 150% or 250% pricing depending on result.
Castings of lower level spells (namely cure wounds and remove curse) can be purchased from casters of appropriate levels which may be found in sufficiently large towns and cities for the cost of 100gp/spell level.
- Remove Curse is thus 600gp +/- 150gp
Potions and Scrolls have a base cost of 5x the cost of a casting of a similar spell.
- Healing Potions and Cure Light are thus 1,000gp +/- 250gp
Magic Items can be properly Identified for a fee of 400gp +/- 100gp per item.
- The requester takes responsibility for supplying a cursed item to be ID'd and is expected to pay any fees incurred due to needing casting of remove curse, cure wounds or in extreme cases raise dead, plus an additional fee for the trouble.
Potions can be properly Identified by an alchemist NPC for a fee of 200gp +/- 50gp per potion.

I plan to run some older modules with this group and I needed to figure out what to do with all the cursed shit in them.
I think as long as I foreshadow it the same way I might a trap and treat it as such then it is probably fine.
Also only cursing them if they are careless with the item before having it Identified seems relatively fair?
Ultimately it should be a good way to pull off excess raw gold while not breaking anything.
I tried to run the numbers on the cost of scroll and potion creation to get the above and then increased it slightly to represent cost of labor.
Healing Potions certainly feel too expensive but by the book they cost 100gp + cost of alchemist upkeep, labor, housing and lab equipment.

I think easy to Identify cursed items like bags of devouring are definitely preferable. I agree there really isn't a good way to make magic identification fun though.

Maybe a fun way to go about cursed items is to allow them to "flip" similar to how a cursed scarab of protection would turn into double strength scarab?
I like the immortal lich king example too. If you make it a quest to cleanse a very powerful cursed item you get a very ring to mordor campaign where someone has to bear the weight as you travel, but if that person also knows the item they carry will be reversed in the end it might make it sting less.

I have nothing for cursed scrolls though, especially considering how high the odds are you roll one on the random table for scrolls. I am pretty sure that is a way to lose a player, especially if you drop one in kind of early on where the MU likely already isn't doing a whole lot per session. Just feels like a complete douchebag move as a GM.

"Oh wow I got a scroll guys now I can spend my slotted Read Magic to cast it and hopefully make a real difference in this dungeon!"
- Last words of Tommy the Magic-User before being turned into a fly trapped in amber
 
Cursed items don't make the game fun. The first couple times players get burned, they just never use anything without identifying it.
Yeah, they are neat in theory. I think bad curse items should still have really cool bonuses/loopholes that players could use, but that's more gymnastics when I could just not give them a majorly cursed item.
1. Gatekeeping is good if the gate is so easy to get through it filters the worst retards by default
2. Who needs d20s anyway, d6 supremacy
I love D6 games, but I'm also a PSYCHO, and my fav is still d100.

I LOVE PERCENTILES!!!
 
Castings of lower level spells (namely cure wounds and remove curse) can be purchased from casters of appropriate levels which may be found in sufficiently large towns and cities for the cost of 100gp/spell level.
Realistically, spell casting should have a logarithmic/exponential cost instead of a flat per-level cost that reflects the additional time/effort required to reach those levels. Of course for magic users when possible I use the rules that magic users primarily level up via research & arcane work (including spells) so cantrips and level 1 spells will usually be cast at not much "above cost" given the caster is probably working to perfect their craft and welcomes the practice. Once you hit lvl 2 spells, now the casters are wanting real wages.
You stat to get to lvl 4 spells and the Wizard is probably going to want favors as well as gold.

Granted I will usually brew up a non-playable "Priest" class (cleric with the combat abilities stripped out) to occupy the local chuches and temples, which will pray for the party using over priced incense and gems, but in those cases the treatment only has a chance of working fully - they can try another round of crystal healing to cleanse their auras, but they gotta pay.


Maybe a fun way to go about cursed items is to allow them to "flip" similar to how a cursed scarab of protection would turn into double strength scarab?
I like the immortal lich king example too. If you make it a quest to cleanse a very powerful cursed item you get a very ring to mordor campaign where someone has to bear the weight as you travel, but if that person also knows the item they carry will be reversed in the end it might make it sting less.
I would probably have some % chance that decursing a bag of devouring turns it into a bag of holding.
If nothing else, maybe have it so perhaps some of the reagents used in the items' creation might be recoverable.

I have nothing for cursed scrolls though, especially considering how high the odds are you roll one on the random table for scrolls. I am pretty sure that is a way to lose a player, especially if you drop one in kind of early on where the MU likely already isn't doing a whole lot per session. Just feels like a complete douchebag move as a GM.
My recommendation for scrolls is this:
I would not have cursed scrolls in random loot tables (some exceptions; you are in the Tomb of Tommy the Cursed Scroll Scribe, I am going only going to laugh when someone picks up a scroll off the ground and gets easily foreseen consequences. Or maybe exceeeeeeeeeeeedingly rare). any cursed scroll be will planned and planted.

Teach the party very early on that not all scrolls are good. The worst ones should be hidden in scroll holders that very clearly give away "Maybe not read this one". Unknown scrolls should be used in desperation and really should be regarded as loot to take back and maybe sell.

Basically: There should be some way to determine roughly what a scroll is without reading/using it. Healing spells must be on vellum. Divination scrolls must be on papyrus. Conjuration spells must use gold ink. shit like that.
Then figure that your Legendary Figures, your once-a century geniuses, figured out a way to get around that and disguise scrolls. You can turn discovering these ruses in to a dice-roll test of abilities and/or luck. But usually when these things happen I like to make it clear to players:
You got fucked by a guy deliberately trying to fuck you. You couldn't have known before hand, just take the learning experience.
And of course, the result for a good player is that same trick won't work a second time. (unless its literally a straigth probability mechanic, but I try to avoid those)
 
Realistically, spell casting should have a logarithmic/exponential cost
That is true, yes. My intention is to allow the purchase of up to 5th level Cleric spells and 3rd level Magic-User spells as long as they are in a sufficiently large city. Allowing the purchase of a Raise Dead seems perfectly fine to counteract all the poison needle traps or other instant kill effects. Especially since you still have a chance of the spell failing depending on the Constitution of the recipient or if you can't get the body to a temple in short enough order (5 days). I think 1,000gp+/-250gp is probably too low. If I instead apply a summation formula to spell casting costs it would instead be;
- Raise Dead is 3,000gp +/- 750gp
- Remove Curse is 1,200gp +/- 300gp

This seems more correct. Scrolls and Potions will probably be limited to lower level spells or spell effects (only up through 3rd) anyway, so there is no need to change those formula. A big reason to allow scrolls of up to 3rd is to allow an MU to purchase their important early spells like Web or Fireball but at very high cost. If it doesn't get found in a dungeon then it isn't the end of the world for that player. Higher level spells than these would obviously fall under spell research rules though and that becomes insanely expensive very quickly.

Obviously all purchased spells would be cast at the lowest possible level of spellcaster for that level of spell. 7th level clerics shouldn't be unreasonably rare. Reading anything for companion level play shows most important figures are of at least 12th level and many are much higher than that (referencing CM1 for a quick level check on prominent NPCs as a source). Additionally some of the availability of spells may be based on the adventurer's reputation, encouraging them to remain in good standing with the local temples.


I would probably have some % chance that decursing a bag of devouring turns it into a bag of holding.
I think this may be an appropriate use of Dispel Evil in conjunction with a Remove Curse. The S&W version of Dispel Evil "destroys evil enchantments and holds evil magic items in abeyance for 10m" with a convenient built in % calculator based on level difference of caster/enchanter. These two in quick succession may fit the bill nicely. Assuming the party takes the "purchase a spell from a temple" method to try this it would have a 58% chance of success if we assume a cursed item was made by a level 11 MU (the minimum level required to create a permanent magic item) and the Dispel Evil is cast by a 7th level Cleric. If it fails the party is out the gold and may try again for another fee.
Or if they have a cleric of appropriate level they can just make that guy do it.
It also allows me to assign a higher level of MU as the creator of a given cursed item if I want it to be harder to sanctify.

As for scrolls; S&W is I believe a Holmes retroclone. As such it has no spell components (V,S,M) nor "schools" of magic. I think a simple wax seal on some scrolls may be a fair way to notate whether something is an MU, Cleric or Other scroll and having some scrolls have the wax seal outright say what it on the scroll. Likewise I can do this for potions too allowing some to be marked and sealed or others be a risk. If it doesn't have a seal then it could be anything or cursed. Using some kind of augury or detect evil will always be the easiest way to check for a cursed item if the party seriously doesn't want to take the risk.

Again, I appreciate the candid responses.
 
Calling all grognards, I have a question that needs answering and this is one of the few places I might find an opinion worth listening to. Is AD&D 2e worth learning and playing still? Especially compared to D&D 5e and other modern fantasy TTRPGs.

I ask because I'm considering it for my tables next fantasy campaign. I'm not a huge fan of 5e it's just sort of meh to me, Pathfinder 2e also didn't get my rocks off either, and I have played so much 3/3.5/PF1e in my life I don't ever want to go back to it. So that lead me back to AD&D 2e as a fantasy game centered around being adventurers/professionally homeless people in a sort of magic rich setting. I like a lot of what I can see at a glance, D&Ds coolest settings all have 2e books, character kits look neat. I really like that the "base" version of the game seems fairly simple and there's tons of options books to make additions to the game if I feel like somethings missing, unlike other games where its a lot of complicated interwoven shit that you might break the whole game if you begin taking things out. I'm also a big fan of the PC classes having bigger picture stuff they unlock at higher levels, like Fighter keeps and Wizard towers.

However, the games also old as fuck and there might be some deep seated system jank I'm not going to be aware of or some questionable ye olden design decisions that made sense back in the day but compared to modern TTRPGs just make my life harder/worse. Help me out here fellas, what do you all think of ole AD&D 2e in the modern era? Also I already know about THAC0 and that won't be a huge issue.
 
Is AD&D 2e worth learning and playing still?
Counter question: What are you trying to do precisely? A game system comes with it, intentionally or not, a pre-packaged purpose, a point, and a tone that is tied to it absolutely. There is a reason why OSR is largely derived from B/X or BECMI, because that early stripped-down feeling is what they are seeking to replicate, rather than the more complicated and gameplay-driven AD&D. Since you mention the bevy of great settings that AD&D had, is that the primary reason? Because having to convert all that material can be a pain. Is it the advancement progression? Games like ACKS have that as the single core concern of the game philosophy.

TL;DR: There is a value to all games if that game can be used to get what you are looking for.
 
Counter question: What are you trying to do precisely? A game system comes with it, intentionally or not, a pre-packaged purpose, a point, and a tone that is tied to it absolutely. There is a reason why OSR is largely derived from B/X or BECMI, because that early stripped-down feeling is what they are seeking to replicate, rather than the more complicated and gameplay-driven AD&D. Since you mention the bevy of great settings that AD&D had, is that the primary reason? Because having to convert all that material can be a pain. Is it the advancement progression? Games like ACKS have that as the single core concern of the game philosophy.

TL;DR: There is a value to all games if that game can be used to get what you are looking for.
So I picked AD&D because I am trying to play quintessential D&D. Class based adventurers, smashing goblins, meeting in a tavern, beating up an evil old wizard D&D. It's just that I'm not a fan of 5th, and 3/3.5/PF I have played so much I am completely burnt out on it. 4th is I guess an option but I didn't like PF2e that much and from what I hear that's more or less trying to ape a lot of what 4th edition had. Learning a new system isn't an issue since my table over the last few years has almost never actually repeated a game system or edition outside a couple exceptions, mostly because of my PTSD of nobody wanting to play anything but Pathfinder for almost a decade straight prior.

I'm trying to get opinions from people who have actually played AD&D 2e, and if they think the game is fun enough and holds up well still. Or if I should just shove it and go run 5e or something if I want that classic generic fantasy D&D kind of game again.
 
Calling all grognards, I have a question that needs answering and this is one of the few places I might find an opinion worth listening to. Is AD&D 2e worth learning and playing still? Especially compared to D&D 5e and other modern fantasy TTRPGs.
It's mostly fine, but there are some exploits, and the expansion material can be game-breaking. Personally, I would recommend using an OSR rule set--I like ACKS, but they're all nearly the same--and whatever old AD&D modules and settings strike your fancy, as they are mathematically compatible.
 
Is AD&D 2e worth learning and playing still?
Yes. You have like 40 years of fixes and improvements and adventures to draw from.

But personally unless you're wanting something more involved, just do a B/X or a B/X OSR clone as they are a little more streamlined.
 
It's mostly fine, but there are some exploits, and the expansion material can be game-breaking. Personally, I would recommend using an OSR rule set--I like ACKS, but they're all nearly the same--and whatever old AD&D modules and settings strike your fancy, as they are mathematically compatible.
I've vaguely heard of ACKs but I've never spoken to anyone who has actually played it. What would you say is the big differences between how an ACKs game typically goes vs a game of D&D? Like, what sort of level of power are the players vs the rest of the population, and what sort of additional power/responsibilities do they grow into as they level up? One of my gripes with the last editions of D&D as I experienced them is that they sort of just assume you're a super powered homeless person from lvl 3-5 until you're a demigod, and there's not a lot of mechanical support for being anything beyond that.
Yes. You have like 40 years of fixes and improvements and adventures to draw from.

But personally unless you're wanting something more involved, just do a B/X or a B/X OSR clone as they are a little more streamlined.
The massive backlog of official and homebrewed content and fixes is part of what originally attracted my eye to AD&D 2e. I don't mind an involved game as long as it's not an over the top amount of necessary prep between sessions. If you had to recommend an alternative that I could also easily borrow and convert 2e content for, what would it be?
It's...fine, take that for what you will. I can only recall maybe 3 sessions where I was a part of a game, and never ran it unlike AD&D and 3.5. I'll be pretty moderate and say it's worth at least one go, but don't expect to be blown away.
A fair recommendation.
It's jank as fuck due to a lack of playtesting due to mandates, but it has a shitload of great settings and module you don't really see in quantity outside of it as an edition. I'd suggest just converting those to your preferred version though if possible however.
Fair enough. I guess part of my problem currently is that I just don't have a "preferred" version of D&D anymore, but still want a D&D styled game.
On a side note the game we're currently playing is it's own kind of jank as well but that's because it was the red headed stepchild of FFGs 40k RPGs
 
Is AD&D 2e worth learning and playing still?
Absolutely.

I ran a campaign for about 3 years recently. (It just rolled up last year due to illness) AD&D 2E and Ravenloft on top of it. We did some Forgotten Realms too.

I had all the good stuff, so I didn't have the buy-in. It has an interesting thing where the players won't see the DMG or the MM at the store and buy them. They can't say "It's an accident" that they have the MM or the DMG.

But it's completely worth learning and playing.

THAC0 filters out retards, same with the attack matrix of 1E.
 
I've vaguely heard of ACKs but I've never spoken to anyone who has actually played it. What would you say is the big differences between how an ACKs game typically goes vs a game of D&D?
Pretty much the same as classic D&D, since the numbers work the same.

what sort of additional power/responsibilities do they grow into as they level up?
The main thing is you're expected to buy and maintain a keep. The rules for this are complete, and the interlocking systems are there to ensure you do it. These systems aren't terribly complicated to manage.
  • Towns have availability of goods by size. Goods reset once a month.
  • Encumbrance is simple enough to not ignore
  • Want more access to things without week-long journeys? Then you need to build your own keep.
  • Want wizard scrolls? You need to build your own lab
  • Don't forget to staff them
  • Hey, now you need money
There are also capable rules for finding and hiring henchmen. The reason I prefer using it over AD&D 1e/2e to run those old modules is AD&D didn't really have good world-building systems, and ACKS adds that. I also like the racial classes.
 
Really telling that every possible response beyond the worst one (which would be to say that 5e is the best one and you shouldn't play old systems), was represented in the responses.
Hey, now you need money
I think this is the most important part, because very few systems bother to have a mechanical money sink. The fact that it's the path to further gameplay is also very nice.
 
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