Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

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Once he did that, Dooku could be discarded in favor of Anakin.
Yes and no. He was interested in Anakin, but he would always prioritize his becoming the emperor over having an apprentice. He'd not be happy if he was forced to dispose of a potential asset like him, but he'd cut him down in a heartbeat if it meant he got the power he craved or if Anakin threatened his role as Chancellor.

Sheev was for Sheev, and little else.
what happens to Palpy's plans if Maul decides to try to turn Anakin or worse, shows up at the Jedi Temple or the Senate Building one day and says "the Chancellor is Sidious and he's playing all of you for chumps. He's the entire reason for the Clone Wars and billions have died and world have burned and he's on both sides"?
Dooku straight up tells them "yeah the Sith are in charge of the Senate" in Attack of the Clones, and thanks to Dave and George's cartoon show, they know he's a Sith well over a year before the third film due to season placement. Well, that and they know Dooku's a Sith lord too by Revenge of the Sith so it's not like they'd not be aware of that if they used the thing in their bodies that does the thinking. In fairness, Yoda says to dismiss it, but Mace Motherfucking Windu took it seriously, and Obi Wan considered it as a possibility.

Given how both made the Jedi pants shitting retards who sat there and accepted death due to refusing to brain, Maul could legit tell them everything and they'd not do shit. Hell, at this rate, Palpatine could just scream unlimited power and electrocute people to death and there's a non-zero chance they'd just say "we need to keep an eye on him" and not do shit.

Dude legit flexed his sith relics in his office and they at no point gave a shit. Thanks Dave. Thanks George. I love when my order of monk-scholars-samurai-diplomats make Jar Jar Binks the smartest guy in the room.
 
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I love when my order of monk-scholars-samurai-diplomats make Jar Jar Binks the smartest guy in the room.
These are the same monks who told Luke to let his friends die and later wanted him to kill his father along with the Emperor. If that isn't a recipe for another Vader in the making, I don't know what is. Face it, the Jedi were always a few brain cells short.

Compared to the OT versions of Yoda and Ben, yes, Jar-Jar is the smartest man in the room. Ben lied to Luke and weaseled out of it by saying that it's all dependent on points of view instead of objective truth, and Yoda sat out most of the war, only to train one boy near the end. How long had the Rebellion been going on? He could've helped more than just training one boy. And don't give me that shit about "the Sith could sense him." Ben hid out on Tatooine, which had a significant Imperial presence, and they didn't sense shit.
 
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Would you believe that scary evil looking motherfucker who is a known subversive and major player in the recent unpleasantness on Naboo if he just showed up one day and started accusing the chancellor (who has done nothing untowards in public up to this point) of being an evil bastard?

I wouldn't.
Maybe not, but after Dooku flat told Obi-Wan the truth and wasn't believed because treachery is the Sith way and all of that, but if Maul shows up at the Jedi Temple in the middle of the Clone Wars and confirms what Dooku said, then that's a different story.
 
Maybe not, but after Dooku flat told Obi-Wan the truth and wasn't believed because treachery is the Sith way and all of that, but if Maul shows up at the Jedi Temple in the middle of the Clone Wars and confirms what Dooku said, then that's a different story.
Sure, maybe. The issue then becomes "How do we convince the senate and the populace of this without making it look like we're making our own power grab?" Especially when the Chancellor is a sith lord and his pulling his own dark side force fuckery deceptions?
 
Sure, maybe. The issue then becomes "How do we convince the senate and the populace of this without making it look like we're making our own power grab?" Especially when the Chancellor is a sith lord and his pulling his own dark side force fuckery deceptions?
Show up unexpectedly in his office, tell him he's under arrest, ignite lightsabers, and if he pulls out a lightsaber and goes through a couple masters like a knife through butter you know?
 
Next you'll tell me Star Wars has witches who make robot legs with magic. How silly.
Lets be fair here.....those were far from the worst witches in Star Wars canon...

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Fuck....any emotional investment or interest I had in muh Star Wars was near ten years dead by the time I found out about this but still...Fuuuck....I legitimately cannot fucking believe this is what the franchise turned in to.

Between this and the Galadriel/Sauron/Elrond love triangle on LAWD DEM RAAAAAAANGZ, 2024 was a truly fucking special year for franchise rape, even after the past decade of seeing everything I loved circa 2012-2013 die screaming before my eyes.
 
There is a big difference.

Space marines in 40k are their whole army. You got siege and AA forces and their own airforce, and even their own naval fleet that is all about planetary assault and taking obscene damage.

Plus we need to factor in that their armour is made from the warhammer equivalent of phrik/beskar/whatever, and they are hellishly superhuman, which includes extreme speed. They can and will charge through most artillery unless they get a direct hit, and a Devastator with the correct gun (lascannon or missile launcher) is a walking AA platform, and they had dedicated counter battery units that were about firing rapidly and redeploying quickly, while being more armoured than most other artillery. They also gotten interceptors and the Thunderhawk is a boarder/transport/heavy fighter/light bomber all in one.
That's before we got to the primaris flying giant AA bunker tank. It exists to make aircraft and other hovertanks seethe and dilate.

Dark troopers while close enough in looks, are more shock troops for other imperials, without their own AA for example. They lacked their own (hower or walker) tanks, and a dedicated fleet of Tie Defenders and Missile Boats to work with them constantly. Perhaps even dust off the old Sith Fury attack transport for them. You don't want them taken out by enemy fighters in a lambda shuttle.

Now I think Palpatine could have given more support, but did he have to? Most rebel forces were small and spread out.

Stormtroopers were already phasing out Clones because they were over-costly for what they did. Remember Palpatine didn't take the rebels to be a proper threat, much less an existential crisis.

Perhaps if Creamy Sheev have gotten to the vong exp pack, he would have gone full in too and ironed those problems out.

But this problem would apply to the Custodes, who were bodyguards and didn't really have that many tanks and aircraft.
 
There is a big difference.

Space marines in 40k are their whole army. You got siege and AA forces and their own airforce, and even their own naval fleet that is all about planetary assault and taking obscene damage.

Plus we need to factor in that their armour is made from the warhammer equivalent of phrik/beskar/whatever, and they are hellishly superhuman, which includes extreme speed. They can and will charge through most artillery unless they get a direct hit, and a Devastator with the correct gun (lascannon or missile launcher) is a walking AA platform, and they had dedicated counter battery units that were about firing rapidly and redeploying quickly, while being more armoured than most other artillery. They also gotten interceptors and the Thunderhawk is a boarder/transport/heavy fighter/light bomber all in one.
That's before we got to the primaris flying giant AA bunker tank. It exists to make aircraft and other hovertanks seethe and dilate.

Dark troopers while close enough in looks, are more shock troops for other imperials, without their own AA for example. They lacked their own (hower or walker) tanks, and a dedicated fleet of Tie Defenders and Missile Boats to work with them constantly. Perhaps even dust off the old Sith Fury attack transport for them. You don't want them taken out by enemy fighters in a lambda shuttle.

Now I think Palpatine could have given more support, but did he have to? Most rebel forces were small and spread out.

Stormtroopers were already phasing out Clones because they were over-costly for what they did. Remember Palpatine didn't take the rebels to be a proper threat, much less an existential crisis.

Perhaps if Creamy Sheev have gotten to the vong exp pack, he would have gone full in too and ironed those problems out.

But this problem would apply to the Custodes, who were bodyguards and didn't really have that many tanks and aircraft.
The Space marines also have scouts and the whole imperial guard to deplete the enemy's ammunition, to say nothing of orbital assets. By the time the Astartes deploys, the enemy should already be largely shattered or they are only deploying to key locations.

Additionally...
So you read about things like Beershebe where you have 600 "mounted infantry" charging artillery, machine guns, and entrenched defenders, then dismounting and taking on the defenders in hand-to-hand fighting in the trenches and the death toll was.... 7 dead and 83 wounded.
Basically there is a lot of "wounded" that takes a combatant out of a fight but not out of the war. And while artillery is good at breaking up infantry, its actually fairly garbage at killing formations ready for it. And that would go triple for a Space Marine given they have not only super human durability and power armor, but organs that are about as good for survival as a trauma ward.


OTOH:
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Space marines armour is also somewhat scanner proof, or at least hard to pick up in infrared. So you got a relatively small number of hard to detect targets that move fast, very fast. Their planes also got a lot of counter measures.

They don't always deploy after the guard*, usually that only happens if the guard bit off more than it can chew, but if they can, the marines go for the head. So the best enemy formations are often targeted right off the bat.

* Usually the guard can artillery and tank most foes and marines seldom need to get involved, they are kind of a shit hit the fan, unshit it card.

Their ships being very hardy means they often gain orbital superiority.

This is also mostly true of the eldar tactics as well.

This means you are either shooting dumb rounds, or risk your electronic munitions getting jammed.

In Empire at war, the imperial AA walker AT-AA also had a skill to disable missile homing systems and send them off target.

The rebel artillery unit used missiles, while the imperial one used a giant blaster bolt, which couldn't home, but also couldn't be jammed.

The artillery was interesting, the clone wars variant was a heavy direct fire only laser meant to attack the Confederate ships (and bunkers?), while the later, smaller imperial version had a rotate-able turret and could do indirect fire, but lacked the sheer firepower of the CW era gun.

This would also explain speeders being useful. For your average rebel that is human or close enough, that's a very fast target zipping by.
 
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This series is for fags now, I honestly don't get why any of you abused wives care for anything more beyond what we already have in the Legends Continuity, Clone Wars notwithstaning.
Ever since TLJ I have haven't watched a single ratlore thing, really good for one's health.
 
Comparing Dark Troopers to Space Marines, I'd say Sternguard or Terminator Marines with plasma cannons would be the equivalent of the Dark Troopers from Dark Forces, except the latter would have a major advantage due to their jetpacks giving them more mobility.

Space marines in 40k are their whole army. You got siege and AA forces and their own airforce, and even their own naval fleet that is all about planetary assault and taking obscene damage.
None of that matters when the Space Marines are typically deployed like this:
Screenshot_20230704-132957_YouTube.jpg Warhammer_40_000_Games_Workshop_Space_Marine_space_marines_Ultramarines_Chaos_Chaos_Space_Mari...jpg
If you deploy your forces like it's the 1700s, don't be surprised if the other guy uses 20th century tactics on you and turns your guys into chunks of blood and guts with artillery barrages.

I mean, you can have all sorts of air support, capital ship support, ground support, support from heavy armor accompany the Dark Troopers, but if you deploy them like the way the CIS deployed its battle droids, then the Rebellion is going to have much fun turning them into scrap. Just as much fun as the Republic Clone Army did with the B2 Super Battle Droids.

The only difference is, Super Battle Droids and Dark Troopers are just machines. They can easily be replaced. Space Marines, on the other hand, even if you discount the fortune it took to equip them, you'd still be losing valuable men who took entire lifetimes to train. It's like losing a Jedi. And the Imperium only has 1 million of these marines, and they have 1 million worlds........as opposed to say, the Confederacy, which had tens of millions of worlds, and God knows how many battle droids. (Some say trillions, other say quadrillions........)

Plus we need to factor in that their armour is made from the warhammer equivalent of phrik/beskar/whatever, and they are hellishly superhuman, which includes extreme speed. They can and will charge through most artillery unless they get a direct hit, and a Devastator with the correct gun (lascannon or missile launcher) is a walking AA platform, and they had dedicated counter battery units that were about firing rapidly and redeploying quickly, while being more armoured than most other artillery. They also gotten interceptors and the Thunderhawk is a boarder/transport/heavy fighter/light bomber all in one.
The Jedi had the same speed advantage through the Force; it didn't stop the CIS droids from scoring the odd Jedi kill. Also, the Space Marine armor is ceramite, which is NOT their version of phrik/beskar. That would be Auramite and Adamantium, worn by the Custodes and the Terminator Marines, respectively. Your average Joe Space Marine is wearing the 40K equivalent of Duraplast; pretty tough, but there's more than enough instances of lasguns piercing through that, just like how Clone Commando armor can resist blaster fire to an extent, but not forever. Hell, I seem to remember a Dawn of War cutscene where shots from Ork guns were able to punch through Space Marine armor.


That doesn't look like extreme speed or durability to me. The Dark Troopers back in Dark Forces are faster. And they're nowhere near as fast as the Jedi.

Not to mention that Y-Wings also have heavy shielding, so they can withstand heavy AA fire for a good while before they start to break.

Dark troopers while close enough in looks, are more shock troops for other imperials, without their own AA for example. They lacked their own (hower or walker) tanks, and a dedicated fleet of Tie Defenders and Missile Boats to work with them constantly. Perhaps even dust off the old Sith Fury attack transport for them. You don't want them taken out by enemy fighters in a lambda shuttle.
Dark Troopers usually work with other Imperial Army units to secure locations. Tak Base, for instance, was besieged by Dark Troopers coming down from drop pods that bypassed the base's shields, but the Imperial army garrisoned the place after the Dark Troopers left. Most Dark Trooper deployments outside of Tak Base mostly has Dark Troopers acting as the odd heavy among Imperial Stormtrooper forces.

Normally, you'd see in games like the Force Unleashed, Battlefront 1 and 2, Empire at War, and Galactic Battlegrounds where Dark Troopers complement Stormtroopers, TIEs, and other Imperial forces as close-quarters units. Even in places like the Arc Hammer, the Dark Troopers fought alongside Imperial Navy Troopers and Stormtroopers to hold off Kyle Katarn.

And yes, the Dark Troopers' first deployment had the Executor, the Arc Hammer, and three ISDs acting as capital ship support. Not that they needed it, but it was still there. Dark Troopers, after all, either deploy alongside an army garrison or drop-pod from space onto the ground from a warship. So they too would have capital ship support.

The difference is, a Mark-IV Mars-Pattern Macrocannon that's in the kiloton range can blow holes in Imperium warships and other 40K navies. The Clone Wars-era turbolasers are in the three-digit gigatons, which explains why in the movie era, a Star Destroyer can render a planet's surface uninhabitable without the need of special weapons like cyclonic torpedoes. So in terms of naval support, the Dark Troopers have less to worry about, since their capital ships carry more firepower.

And if the Dark Troopers drop-pod from space, then it's a given that they control the space above them and the Imperials have already blockaded the planet. Whereas in some cases, Astartes are deployed to places that are still contested areas even in space combat; we see in Graia the Space Marines being deployed from a cruiser, Ork and Imperium capital ships are still fighting over the skies. The most I've seen the Dark Troopers do in defense is defend places like Palpatine's palace on Coruscant when it was besieged by Alliance forces.

Now I think Palpatine could have given more support, but did he have to? Most rebel forces were small and spread out.
That, and the Stormtroopers were already winning the war for the most part; rogue Rebel cells like Garm Bel Iblis' Corellian forces refused to join the Rebellion proper because of all the Rebel bases that kept getting seized all over the place.


Stormtroopers were already phasing out Clones because they were over-costly for what they did. Remember Palpatine didn't take the rebels to be a proper threat, much less an existential crisis.
Palpatine was stringing the Rebels along, and the Rebels did exactly as he wanted them to, until they blew up the shield generator on Endor once he got distracted with the Luke/Vader drama. The Vong, on the other hand, was the threat he was preparing for.

But this problem would apply to the Custodes, who were bodyguards and didn't really have that many tanks and aircraft.
But the Custodes are mostly a ceremonial unit after the Emperor "retired". At this point, they don't have much need for tanks or aircraft, and one could surmise that if a Custodes was sent on a mission, it'd be serious enough that he'd bring enough support forces with him, just for ONE Custodes.

The Space marines also have scouts and the whole imperial guard to deplete the enemy's ammunition, to say nothing of orbital assets. By the time the Astartes deploys, the enemy should already be largely shattered or they are only deploying to key locations.
Depends. Sometimes the Astartes deploys first. Other times, the Imperium needs a stop-gap solution because reinforcements are weeks away, and a handful of Astartes are the only people they can send as a delaying tactic. And the Imperial Guard are basically just meat for the grinder; they're treated the same way the CIS treats B1 Battle Droids.

Space marines armour is also somewhat scanner proof, or at least hard to pick up in infrared. So you got a relatively small number of hard to detect targets that move fast, very fast. Their planes also got a lot of counter measures.
Depends on how primitive or advanced the other side is, especially since more advanced sensors can still pick up bioforms. Not to mention that advantage is nullified by the fact that most Space Marines yell like loud maniacs and fire bolters that the whole battlefield can hear.

Dark Troopers, on the other hand, are completely silent, and their standard-issue plasma cannons don't make much noise when compared to bolters. That, and them all having jetpacks means that they can skedaddle if enemy artillery or bombers take a liking to them. Not all Space Marines have jump packs.

* Usually the guard can artillery and tank most foes and marines seldom need to get involved, they are kind of a shit hit the fan, unshit it card.
That's the thing; a smart enemy of the Imperium can just put the IG in danger to lure out Space Marines, then artillery-barrage the place where the Space Marine drop pods land. Or wherever they can hear loud cries of "FOR THE EMPEROR" along with buzzing chainswords and bolters going off.

Basically there is a lot of "wounded" that takes a combatant out of a fight but not out of the war. And while artillery is good at breaking up infantry, its actually fairly garbage at killing formations ready for it. And that would go triple for a Space Marine given they have not only super human durability and power armor, but organs that are about as good for survival as a trauma ward.
Depends on the artillery shell. If it's outdated WW2 artillery that the IG dusts off, then a Space Marine or a Dark Trooper is likely to survive it. If it's a more futuristic artillery blast like that of the SPHA that can blow open spaceship hulls designed to withstand nukes, then you can kiss your Space Marines or Dark Troopers goodbye.

I never understood that. Usually, when you have a game based on something with a lore, the stronger units tend to have stronger stats. For instance, in Pokemon, you would typically find your average Mewtwo card to be far stronger than a Pikachu card from the same edition of the card game.

It was a cartoon for retarded gay children. Lucas had no idea Disney was going to turn SW into another MCU and canonize every little thing.
That, and Lucas was planning on putting Maul up as the main villain for Episode 7, which he was working on at the time. So it made sense to bring him back; you get fanservice for the short term, and in the long term, you have a villain for a three-movie trilogy who can carry the load.
 
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I never understood that. Usually, when you have a game based on something with a lore, the stronger units tend to have stronger stats. For instance, in Pokemon, you would typically find your average Mewtwo card to be far stronger than a Pikachu card from the same edition of the card game.

Space Marines being as strong as the denizen of Planet Rambo isn't as lore breaking as you might imagine.

That's the thing; a smart enemy of the Imperium can just put the IG in danger to lure out Space Marines, then artillery-barrage the place where the Space Marine drop pods land. Or wherever they can hear loud cries of "FOR THE EMPEROR" along with buzzing chainswords and bolters going off.

That could be weeks or months, assuming it ever happens given the unreliability of Warp communication. Seems like a lot of resources to put on a maybe.

And the Imperium only has 1 million of these marines, and they have 1 million worlds........as opposed to say, the Confederacy, which had tens of millions of worlds, and God knows how many battle droids. (Some say trillions, other say quadrillions........)
Population statistics in Warhammer are explicitly bullshit. "There are as many elves as the plot requires."
 
I can't quote that, but your understanding is mostly based on video game balance.

It isn't helped by the fact that even GW doesn't know if marine armour is ceramite only, or ceramite and adamantium, or ceramite and X.

Ceramite is a non metallic substance that is mostly impenetrable to energy weapons.

Reading material:


Lore wise marines aren't just fast, but can shoot/dodge in microseconds. Not milliseconds, and headshot in the kilometer range without sniping. They don't need jetpacks to be more mobile than most enemies save eldar. If I match your autism, that means at low end 999 microseconds, which is 0.999 millisecond, 0,1% of a second. While this speed was replicated by an Old Republic Jedi once, he could only do Force Speed this fast for a limited time.
If Dark troopers had this, they would have smeared any human opponent who isn't a skilled Jedi.

This is often a problem for video games. Gaunt or Trooper of Havoc Squad can melt through Chaos marines / Sith like its a fish in the barrel situation, because that's just video games. At least Serious Sam doesn't take itself seriously.

The autism in you makes you take the maximum EU values against the stupidest of 40k lowballs, but that is because you are autistic. This applies to both franchises and is a result of slop writers not getting physics or scale.

Also how would a human like Kyle Katarn be able to kill multiple Dark Troopers? If their plasma cannons are anything like a 40k plasma gun, a single shot would kill anything even if it is a near miss.

Your entire understanding of the franchise is superficial, gleaned from memes, youtube poop and vidya.

Most Starships can destroy all life on a planet. ISD, Kirk's Enterprise, a 40k ship with sustained bombardment. In fact the Enterprise scored the best there, as it could somehow stun an entire planet of gangsters all at once, despite phasers being linear and unable to bend around the planet.

There was also the Star Trek explosive that could destroy planets, but fit in a vial. It was forgotten by writers and never used after TOS. It looked like rainbow coloured dust.

You are just driven by retarded America Exceptionalism and milsim autism, a lot like Razorfist. Yet your worldview is 20th century only.

CIS having tens of millions of planets and the Galactic Empire having a million planets does not scale. It is similar to a 40k error that lists the Imperium at a billion planets in the Beast war series, instead of a million.

Now non autists realise the writer just mistook the number or didn't do research. It is common in shared universe fiction.

Otherwise you got to wonder, where did that millions of CIS or Imperium planets go? Secede? Get exterminated? That would be an event like the US getting hit with a meteor and only retaining one state, it would be mentioned elsewhere.

This ties into weapons batteries, which can go from 6 joules to petatons easy. They can go from a kid's punch to dinosaur ending meteor levels. It can go from flattening a bunker WW2 style to piercing the crust in one go. This is a lack of quality control.

This just results in autists on spacebattle.net and similar sites arguing whenever a macrocannon with giga-tonnes warhead means its yield or weight is a thousand tonnes. So a few gigatonnes of tnt equivalent or a few thousand tonnes as the shells weight, which makes for a much bigger kinetic impact.

Ship speeds at 0.5 light speed are universal, so the macrocannon yield jumps up and down from gigatonnes to petatons easily. It can't fire slower than the target its trying to hit is travelling.
This was likely a FFG writer not even knowing what giga means, nor realising how unclear he was, and people use this for autistic calculations when the same book has imperial ships at densities at which they could float on water like a WW2 ship. A sea ship.

This also comes to town on Star Wars, is the Clone army 3.5 millions or 3.5 million brigades? If we look at it from autistic realism, 3.5 million soldiers is way too low, something Earth could match in manpower. If we look at it from how the Clone Wars cartoon depicts it, 3.5 million soldiers is fine.

Coruscant has alone 100 trillion or 1 trillion people, they could recruit 3.5 million easily. That's only their biggest planet, there is a million more. If each planet conscripts 3 and a half men, they could do the same as the Kaminoans.

Because Dave Woooooof Filoni thinks 10 tanks and a thousand droids are a world conquering force, because he never, ever read a single military history campaign. Closest he came was a cowboy film.

Now this is just writer autism, but your autism makes you pick up the largest number from one pool, and the smallest from the other pool, because warhammer not following 20th century war tactics makes you angry.

Me being smarter, I generally look at effects and see how those scale up.

This goes from ISD getting planet killing capability to them being unable to efficiently bomb a rebel Hoth base, or Asoka and her buddies.

This is another stupid writer scenario. If a ship, be it the ISD Bombardeer or the Dauntless Orbital Purgation, can never simply destroy shields it could just boil the entire area.

Any competent scifi writer would just have the ship blast the planet until the crust melts and the enemy base is swallowed into the molten mantle, shield or no shield.

But those don't work for tv/board game franchises, those get the second and third rate choices. Both Star Wars, 40k and others go down the quality nose dive faster than Balldo's viewers.
Population numbers are an easy error.
Terra or Coruscant are hyper overpopulated, while other planets have less people than New York or a middle ages European Kingdom, yer can field armies to challenge an invasion by a space faring civilisation.

No Frank Herbert or Larry Niven or Clark Ashton Smith or Hal Clement and such for franchises. Not even an Asimov.

I am trying to educate you, because you got the tism. When in fact it is just stupid, underpaid and uneducated writers typing whatever slop they think is acceptable.

A film example, the Stormtroopers in Cloud city (EP5) can blast chubks out of the wall, yet Leia on Endor survives a bladter to the shoulder (EP6).

This also happens to Star Trek. A phaser can melt a car sized boulder, yet a plant pot can be used as cover against the phaser.

Or anytime 40k uses foliage as cover against any gun. A tree wouldn't stop any sci-fi weapon unless it is an unobtainium bark tree.

Anime just does it shamelessly, it doesn't even care. The 50 kg girl will drop kick the tank into a wall. She will also flash her panties while doing so. Physics are baka.

Which was that shooter game that had bullets fire with the casing again? Made by Californians who never saw a gun and just googled bullet.
 
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