Ooblets
epic-chat
Please be civil! If you want to make sure a dev sees your comments, please email perplamps@gmail.com (but remember there is a real person on the other end). We're trying to listen and respond to as much as we can but recognize that messages are coming in very fast!
6,585 messages
Bonzi77 🌞 01-Aug-19 01:05 PM
i love fortnite
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Malbio 01-Aug-19 01:05 PM
flossing!! xd
Molcole11 01-Aug-19 01:05 PM
epic bad
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mimi 01-Aug-19 01:05 PM
we like fortnite we like fortnite we like fortnite
Coby 01-Aug-19 01:05 PM
Financial stability good.
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Lodeman 01-Aug-19 01:06 PM
I feel Epic needs to make a game about petting puppies
sam suite 01-Aug-19 01:06 PM
i like epic. seems fine. congrats yall
Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 01:06 PM
everyone do the funny fortnite dance
fiveoutofkevin 01-Aug-19 01:07 PM
Congrats!
angry tuna 01-Aug-19 01:07 PM
i like when devs can eat food and also make video games
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Shemone 01-Aug-19 01:07 PM
Because the Patreon wasn't enough 😉
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SaltyBabyy 01-Aug-19 01:07 PM
Fortnite epic
lsarmiliato 01-Aug-19 01:07 PM
I had to stop being a Patreon for financial reasons so I'm glad that EGS came through!
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 01:07 PM
this was probably a good idea
cesque 01-Aug-19 01:07 PM
i cant imagine what its like being a member of the patreon and then having the game come out on EGS LMAO (edited)
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not_so_gladiator 01-Aug-19 01:07 PM
Livelihood is important!! Wellbeing is important!! Putting yourself in the devs shoes is important!!
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Lyssa 01-Aug-19 01:08 PM
what's EGS
Catweasel 01-Aug-19 01:08 PM
fartnite
mimi 01-Aug-19 01:08 PM
epic games store
Lauren 01-Aug-19 01:08 PM
Evil gay sheep
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 01:09 PM
ok, this is epic (chat)
Zack 01-Aug-19 01:10 PM
Now this is podracing
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 01:10 PM
Eclairs Growing Stable
ThomasDoof 01-Aug-19 01:10 PM
Ooblets Battle Royale WHEN?!?
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Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 01:10 PM
OOblets skins for sale! Who wants in? xD
Molcole11 01-Aug-19 01:11 PM
Epic touches pp
sam suite 01-Aug-19 01:11 PM
can someone give me a real explanation for why people are so mad about the epic store? I get the privacy and currency concerns. is there more to it than that? I honestly don't get it
ThomasDoof 01-Aug-19 01:12 PM
It's their aggressive exclusivity purchases onto a store platform that is half baked still
SkyShard 01-Aug-19 01:12 PM
I know some people have mentioned issues with region locking and currency, but I believe perp responded with saying that they're working on bringing more to the platform
Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:13 PM
That sale the other month that devalued indie devs games without even letting the devs know they were gonna have to be involved wasn't great either 👀
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 01:13 PM
@sam suite people don't understand that capitalism is what it is and form unnecessary attachments to brands and heap blame on poor people instead of the system at large
Honeyxilia 01-Aug-19 01:13 PM
@Jasonblox6 dev were paid the same way than without the sale (from the dev of John Wick Hex)
cesque 01-Aug-19 01:13 PM
the exclusivity stuff is really annoying
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Catweasel 01-Aug-19 01:14 PM
epic has been working on more EGS features since it launched and nothing's happened yet
perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:14 PM
just honestly curious, do you folks go after every tv show that comes out for being exclusive to a particular tv channel?
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mimi 01-Aug-19 01:14 PM
just my onion but i think thats a Very different situation
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Shemone 01-Aug-19 01:14 PM
@perplamps Wow
Zack 01-Aug-19 01:14 PM
I understand the desire to want to fight back even a little, but I'd not bother engaging on this
Librian 01-Aug-19 01:14 PM
The problem with Epic is that they quite honestly can't be trusted
Lyssa 01-Aug-19 01:14 PM
😒 kinda hostile but ok
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 01:15 PM
no perplamps just games because it's "different" to them
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cesque 01-Aug-19 01:15 PM
@perplamps i think that netflix/hulu exclusives are a terrible idea so yeah kinda
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 01:15 PM
@Jasonblox6, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Jasonblox6 said: The game being devalued before release, in the sense of having someone thinking "**** this game was $10 at one point, why should I buy it now" wasn't great though was it? @Honeyxilia . I'd like to point out to the TV thing, there are very few ways to get your TV show onto tv without signing with a network and having to be exclusive? So what a terrible comparison
Catweasel 01-Aug-19 01:16 PM
do people crowdfund tv shows expecting them to come to a specific platform?
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Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 01:16 PM
@sam suite, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@sam suite said: oh yeah, that sale was a very ** move. but I have a hard time believing that most of the people yelling in the other chat are mad because some indies' games got devalued. the exclusivity thing seems like such a strange thing to care about. i go on many websites and they're all free. do you guys just want like achievements or whatever?
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lsarmiliato 01-Aug-19 01:17 PM
@Catweasel fans paid for the Veronica Mars movie and the fourth season came on Hulu and nobody complained about that!
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 01:17 PM
@GhostToast, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@GhostToast said: Congrats on the deal, devs. People will always whine about change, hope it doesn't get to you. I'll be happy to support a platform that gives more sales equity to devs, and if exclusivity means I have to (GOD FORBID) open another launcher, I will absolutely do that to play a game I want to support. ****, I bought a one-month subscription to a particular streaming platform to watch Game of Thrones, this isn't any different except EGS is free...
lighten 01-Aug-19 01:17 PM
Steam was the only platform they considered at the begining now they got an other option which comes with money , choice is easy there
Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 01:17 PM
The language from the post was clear: "we got the amount of money from Swiney that we expected from sales on all platforms" - so basically their game can sell a grand total of ZERO copies and they'll still be happily going to the bank. Anything else is an extra. Now my problem here is that they think that a smaller userbase on Epic (fail) store - which they admitted is far smaller right there in the post - is somehow going to generate more sales than Steam/Windows sales. You have to either be really bad at math - or be walking to the bank with a bag that has dollar signs on it - to say such things. Then we have the condescending language. NO, we don't play Fartnite. NO, we don't like exclusives. NO, we don't like EGS. But whatever, even a monkey could "click a button to install EGS", so whatever, right? What a sh*tstorm.
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Catweasel 01-Aug-19 01:18 PM
where's the patreon for spiderman with a twitch.tv release promised
Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:18 PM
Oh no I agree it's not the only reason, but someone was asking what else they had done to make people upset @sam suite
Librian 01-Aug-19 01:18 PM
They also put games on sale without telling the creators, even putting AAA games at the price of 5$. And this is only the top of the iceberg
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 01:19 PM
steam's a bad private company, epic is a bad private company, agreed let's nationalize both
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 01:19 PM
nationalize google. not sarcastic
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AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 01:20 PM
@Mr. OVERKILL It's not hard to work on a passion project and then accept a deal that lets you keep working on it without worrying about the bills. Unless you know the details of their deal and their life circumstances, you're not really in a position to call someone greedy.
Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:20 PM
Remember when Borderlands 3, one of the biggest hyped releases of the year got pulled from the store? I wonder if there was a reason for that LUL
Jaypi3 01-Aug-19 01:21 PM
Where can I see the announcement I keep hearing it was bad but I wanna see it.
Kuranghi 01-Aug-19 01:21 PM
@Jasonblox6 Is BL3 not Epic-exclusive anymore? Or do you mean it was removed from Steam?
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 01:21 PM
wait what people are X'ing de-privatizing a company lmao g*mers please
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 01:21 PM
A rather large announcement
Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 01:22 PM
#poordevelopers is the usual response, I get it. But then can devs stop promising to release on specific storefronts? Just say "the game is coming out...somewhere, we don't yet know if Swiney will pay us, but we'll tell you later, stay tuned" and be done with it? That's a slap in the face #1. A Slap in the face #2 is when you call everyone toxic for disagreeing with this bait-and-switch
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Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:22 PM
They removed it from epic after that disaster of a sale, and are no longer exclusive to it I believe @Kuranghi
tjspeirs 01-Aug-19 01:22 PM
boy i sure don't feel entitled to a thing
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GhostToast 01-Aug-19 01:22 PM
Steam has had plenty of problems yet they are never brought to light because they pretty much had a monopoly and people were used to using one thing. EGS obviously also has issues, but is being criticized because they are new and devs are switching to them and people dislike change, looking for any reason to justify that.
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Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 01:22 PM
@Shemone, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Shemone said: I'm not buying Borderlands 3 anymore. I was planning on it, but since the Epic stunt I wont support a company that's so * greedy. Borderlands 3 would have made millions but they just want millions + 18% with zero benefit to me , is the game marginally cheap on EGS? No. Does it have a bunch of superb features to entice me? No. What's the * point.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:22 PM
@Mr. OVERKILL we weren't making promises, we were sharing our intentions and labeling them as such
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 01:22 PM
Tim “using Linux is like moving to Canada, just bend over for big daddy Microsoft!” Sweeney
AntiKristi 01-Aug-19 01:23 PM
You’re not being called toxic because you disagree, but because of the way you phrase things
cob 01-Aug-19 01:23 PM
hi devs please finish the game thank you - cob
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Jacobim 01-Aug-19 01:23 PM
Gabe "HL3 will come out" Newell
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Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:24 PM
They pulled BL3 off epic after seeing how bad they were I think XD @Shemone
tjspeirs 01-Aug-19 01:24 PM
did you guys know there's 12 billion gallons of ice melting off of Greenland today? THAT upsets me!
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joey_jrpg 01-Aug-19 01:24 PM
i think overall, im just disappointed with how the announcement was phrased. just a little condescending. since the EGS doesnt have any other games im interested in, ill probably just not get this game
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Jaypi3 01-Aug-19 01:25 PM
Ah, I read the announcement now, it seems like it went on way longer than it needed to be, they should've stopped after saying they needed the money and it took away the uncertainty of developing the game, then they went on to defend epic and it got cringey.
Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 01:25 PM
@perplamps Nice dodge. But you are siding with the guy who openly tells everyone how monopolies and exclusivity is bad, yet when he does it - it's "saving the PC market"... https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Sweeney2.png
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 01:25 PM
That’s some hardcore whataboutism. What if anytime you were upset about literally anything in your life someone popped up and said “yeah but African kids are starving and the planet is dying.”
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Jacobim 01-Aug-19 01:25 PM
let me add a voice to the announcement being good and funny
Zync 01-Aug-19 01:25 PM
There was humor in the blog?
GhostToast 01-Aug-19 01:26 PM
For people upset about backing a game they thought was coming to Steam first, nothing is ever guaranteed with crowd-funded things, especially for independently developed games with small teams. Any small business has to adapt and make changes to survive, and if they could have predicted this they would have said so from the beginning.
Catweasel 01-Aug-19 01:26 PM
BL3 is still an epic exclusive, they just got de-listed during epic's sale they forced on every developer on the store without asking. Because they're Dev Friendly, you see. (edited)
Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:26 PM
I think the saddest part of the dev log is saying to be mad about other things like climate change, etc? Do you not understand how absolutely rude and condescending that is? Why should I buy your game instead of donate to charities to help those things for example? Do you see how that is really disrespectful? "Don't be mad at us, there's bad things like climate change" really? That's your way of dealing with criticism?
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 01:26 PM
@Mr. OVERKILL wait hold on -- there are a lot of things i don't like about epic/all corporations -- but epic is clearly a steam competitor. if anything this is breaking up a monopoly
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joey_jrpg 01-Aug-19 01:26 PM
yeah i really didnt find it funny at all, it really just made me roll my eyes a little with the floss because its just so over done, ironically or not
perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:27 PM
@Jasonblox6 it was meant as a joke, but seriously, is this really the hill you wanna fight on?
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The Sin Cave ™ 01-Aug-19 01:27 PM
Here's a novel concept: you can be upset at multiple things at the same time regardless of severity
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:27 PM
"upset" and the anti-epic vitriol are two very separate things (edited)
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Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 01:27 PM
I still like the logic... "Monopolies are bad! So we're going to create our own!" https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/04/microsoft-monopolise-pc-games-development-epic-games-gears-of-war
Microsoft is looking to dominate the games industry ecosystem with its aggressive new UWP initiative. Developers must oppose this, or else cede control of their titles
Scruffo 01-Aug-19 01:28 PM
Second concept, gamers are more upset about video games than they are literally anything else
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Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 01:28 PM
@sam suite steam isn't a monopoly either though, there's plenty of steam competitors
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 01:28 PM
dear devs: I am mad that company is bad. second of all: how dare you
Kuranghi 01-Aug-19 01:28 PM
C'mon guys, im trying to finish my Man Eater dev diary
SoulSystem 01-Aug-19 01:28 PM
The big question for me, is this game releasing on steam eventually? If not that's a firm no buy from my point of view. If it's coming to steam eventually, I might buy it if i care about it after it's been out a while.
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:28 PM
more like Dear devs: how dare you say I'm mad I WILL HURT YOU
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we'd love to bring Ooblets to steam eventually
Catweasel 01-Aug-19 01:28 PM
Your store page still says coming to steam soon.
Librian 01-Aug-19 01:29 PM
@perplamps Why did you bother making this channel if you're just going to sneer at us
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 01:29 PM
@sam suite breaking up a monopoly through anti-consumer tactics just makes you look pathetic and leads to piracy. (edited)
ecstaticegg 01-Aug-19 01:29 PM
Hey guys, I totally understand the choice to go epic exclusive but I also have an issue with the way it was announced and I think you guys need to just take the criticism
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:29 PM
we're listening and trying to respond to all the criticism
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 01:29 PM
i'm not sure you guys quite understand what a monopoly is. i mean that with the utmost respect. also: https://twitter.com/tha_rami/status/1156953903373570048
@ThePuddington Criticism is not the same as anger
perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:29 PM
why else would I be here talking to you like, you know, a human
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Jaypi3 01-Aug-19 01:30 PM
Real Human Bean
Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:30 PM
Hill to fight on? What? Saying something rude and then saying "it was just a joke bro" isn't really a good way to deal with criticism quite frankly. Saying things like "is this really the hill you wanna fight on" is also quite rude and unprofessional but what do I know, I'm just stumbling around looking for hills clearly
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 01:30 PM
Oh wow, Trump emotes
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angry tuna 01-Aug-19 01:30 PM
Real Human Ben
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 01:30 PM
Breaking Up A Monopoly: An Ooblets Story
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Gudi 01-Aug-19 01:30 PM
"steam is a monopoly" "congrats to GoG for getting 30% of all cyberpunk 2077 preorders"
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joey_jrpg 01-Aug-19 01:30 PM
you really need to stop with the condescending attitude, it didnt work in the blog, and its not working now
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GhostToast 01-Aug-19 01:30 PM
In no way does EGS have a monopoly, Steam is the closest platform to having a monopoly and yet people are desperate to cling to it smh. EGS is creating competition to Steam's current monopoly by securing exclusives, like every other media platform has done since radio.
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foolish demon 01-Aug-19 01:31 PM
@sam suite I work in cyber security. Personally, my apprehension regarding EGS is security related. Amazon, google, microsoft, and yes, Steam all collect data in similar ways, but I have a pi-hole attached to my home network that captures such traffic. Unfortunately that's out of reach for the vast majority of users. Tencent works closely with the CCP and helps them contribute to facial recognition (Amazon too) software used to oppress Uighurs and Hong Kongers. There's no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism, but I'm too paranoid to hand the CCP my data. So it won't ultimately affect me since all EGS's attempts to send data to China are blocked on my network. @perplamps Any comments on security concerns?
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Melody 01-Aug-19 01:31 PM
Ooof, okay honestly I am really happy about the announcement, I don't get butthurt or offended about all the "jokes", it's nice that Ooblets is getting the funding to make it what they really want it to be. So I mean no disrespect when I say this, cause I love all y'all developers... but really not a smart idea to be arguing in here with fans. I know you value transparency but that's kind of where I draw the professionalism line. People will get over this over time, arguing with them in here is the wrong approach I think. It's good to listen to criticism, but this is an irreversible move so I don't know what feedback you can get that isn't "don't make it EGS exclusive" and then you have a fight. I dunno
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Omakehell 01-Aug-19 01:31 PM
anyway, godspeed to you both devs, hope this is just today and will recover, dont share your point but world's free
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 01:31 PM
How does steam have a monopoly when they aren’t pushing exclusives? They have a good market share because their platform is good. They’re not killing competitors
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ecstaticegg 01-Aug-19 01:31 PM
Then you don’t need to justify every single thing, at some point can you not accept that maybe the way you guys chose to announce this may have been a mistake? Like just say hey we hear you guys and we get it. We didn’t mean it this way we just want to be upfront with the community. Instead you are doubling down? Why?
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lighten 01-Aug-19 01:31 PM
No bending to your every whim is not being « condescending » get over yourselves please
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Danley 01-Aug-19 01:31 PM
Looking forward to this game. Played harvest moon and minecraft for hundreds of hours. Haven't gotten to stardew valley cause I was waiting to dive into ooblets. More interested in the town/party aspect than the farming. My only two questions would be, was GOG an option? And does this mean if you produce physical copies they'll just be Epic Games Store keys and not offline 'offline cabin copy' boxes?
Librian 01-Aug-19 01:31 PM
"Lets fight a monopoly by joining another monopoly!" And all the world is football shaped
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 01:32 PM
@foolish demon reasonable take! this is the only argument that makes sense to me so far
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Jaypi3 01-Aug-19 01:32 PM
"I used the monopoly, to destroy the monopoly" - Gamer Thanos
perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:32 PM
@Melody I appreciate the criticism and I think you're right
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Jacobim 01-Aug-19 01:32 PM
First they came for the g*mers,... (edited)
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Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 01:32 PM
I must say, so far this was a pretty accurate representation of the devs: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/255509377614610433/606535463754268673/uMvx1cn.jpg
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SoulSystem 01-Aug-19 01:32 PM
I think you guys should have probably offered the game on all platforms rather than timed exclusive, I don't see how this benefits you in the long term because I see it as you are probably going to reduce your overall profits because people are going to feel alienated about this, but I guess hindsight isn't meant to be 20:20 :/. Good luck anyways and I hope this works out because I would have loved to have played Ooblets.
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foolish demon 01-Aug-19 01:33 PM
@sam suite That being said, I am glad the team can afford necessities and some breathing room. Wishing them all the best.
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lennii 01-Aug-19 01:33 PM
same as most other people have said, was super hyped for the game, didn't care at all about it being an epic exclusive, until the announcement went on.. and on.. and on.. and got condescending and gross and showed a side to yall that I didnt expect or like really
Coby 01-Aug-19 01:33 PM
@Mr. OVERKILL does that image seem especially constructive?
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:33 PM
I do want people's voices to be heard and I want to respond to them with respect, but some of that respect is not just saying PR bs just to placate folks. I think there's a discussion to be had here and I'd love it if we could talk it over calmly
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Lodeman 01-Aug-19 01:33 PM
Wonder when YongYea's video will come out 😄
Omakehell 01-Aug-19 01:33 PM
ill tell you why not. it happened with the skateboarding bird game a few days ago. if it isnt an epic exclusive, you cant enter the EGS.
hmaon 01-Aug-19 01:33 PM
I love everyone who knows exactly what publishing and platform choices will mean for sales and revenue. Charge consulting fees!
cesque 01-Aug-19 01:33 PM
i have more bad feeling towards epic themselves than any devs
taime 01-Aug-19 01:34 PM
Diversity in the market is good for devs, and good for consumers. Taking exclusivity deals helps fund and propel development of games you love. While I have my concerns around Epic's security (particularly no 2FA), I have confidence that the EGS will likely continue to improve if they want to stand any chance of becoming a fixture in the market blobcatgooglyshrug
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Catweasel 01-Aug-19 01:34 PM
EGS has awful region availability issues and they offer 0 recourse to people affected.
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ecstaticegg 01-Aug-19 01:34 PM
Hey I actually came here to ask a question. I have no issue not using steam, but I don’t want to use epic either. Is it literally ONLY epic? Is it gonna be on any other venue? I may have missed it in the announcement. Thanks either way.
Librian 01-Aug-19 01:34 PM
Just remove the game from steam at this point
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 01:34 PM
The silver lining of exclusivity as now I know not to support certain devs because the game I was hyped for end up being made by condescending schmucks with no respect for their audience. Treat me like crap and I don’t buy your product. Welcome to capitalism, baybee
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:34 PM
@ecstaticegg it'll be on Xbox and in the future more stuff
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 01:34 PM
perplamps it saddens me to see you ignore the fact that g*mers are the most oppressed group in history, furthermore also as well as-
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Jaypi3 01-Aug-19 01:34 PM
@Lodeman YESSSSSS "Innndie deeeev singed to epic....but in other news, EA, Activision, Todd Howard, Bethesda, has done something, and Kojima has once again showed he's a master in game design" - YongYea
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Katie 01-Aug-19 01:34 PM
congrats on the deal! came here to say I totally support you and I'm glad you've got funding to make this game great!<3
Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 01:35 PM
Is there gonna be a Switch release? My gf would rather buy it there than support Tencent and their human rights violations...
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:35 PM
@Paragon Deku I'm offering to discuss stuff rationally as buds but folks like you are coming in on the attack
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 01:35 PM
This is bull man..
sam suite 01-Aug-19 01:35 PM
gotta say: if my game was getting hit with this Gamer Rage™ right now i would be taking a long nap and not looking at comments. gotta give props to perps & co for trying to listen to people
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BubbaNitro 01-Aug-19 01:35 PM
fornite
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Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:35 PM
Honestly it'd have been fine if you'd have told us you were doing this, then spoke to us calmly and professionally. Instead you've been condescending, laughed things off as "jokes" and then accusing people of being toxic and whiney..
perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:35 PM
@Mr. OVERKILL maybe eventually!
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Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 01:35 PM
Wow they even made a quarantine channel
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Catbus 01-Aug-19 01:35 PM
i have an even better advice. stop calling people idiots for having problems with the egs as you did in that blog post. if you were just like "we took the money bc we like the security" i think this shitstorm wouldnt have happened because for an indie dev thats a reasonable thing to do. its also entirely ok to be disappointed about that because you guys were saying the game would come to steam for a long time. nobody who's disappointed about that or doesn't want to buy the game anymore is entitled or toxic.
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cesque 01-Aug-19 01:36 PM
exclusivity is just so annoying and tiring
Omakehell 01-Aug-19 01:36 PM
https://twitter.com/glassbottommeg/status/1156313931285057536 <--- this happened a few days ago and i bet it happened somethink like these lines
Interesting tidbit: Epic doesn't want SkateBIRD. They say they're focusing on exclusives, and SkateBIRD promised Steam keys in its KS, therefore, nah. I suppose that may change by our launch, but it seemed like an interesting data point anyways.
Likes
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 01:36 PM
@Mr. OVERKILL Human Rights violations?
joey_jrpg 01-Aug-19 01:36 PM
yeah like i just have so many problems with EGS, from security to no shopping cart, the platform is just not good enough for me to use. until ooblets comes out on something different, if its really worth playing its just easier for me to pirate it. wish you devs the best of luck, hope the sack of money you got upfront is worth the PR stuff
Catweasel 01-Aug-19 01:36 PM
Epic's exclusivity stuff is directly harming Good Old Games, hurting all the competition who can't afford to compete. I don'ty want to support that. I love GOG.
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 01:36 PM
writes an article about how you shouldn’t care about it being exclusive and you’re a lame person for caring about it “W-WHY ARE YOU GUYS ON THE ATTACK”
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mimi 01-Aug-19 01:36 PM
how many times are people gonna post that same image lol
SkyShard 01-Aug-19 01:36 PM
I'm not a professional game dev but a lot of people are suggesting to bring Ooblets to every platform, I can only imagine how difficult the porting would be, especially when self-publishing. I think a lot of us would prefer the game to come out in a reasonable amount of time over coming to every platform in 2027
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ecstaticegg 01-Aug-19 01:36 PM
Xbox as in the console? Or the Microsoft store on pc as well? Anyway, I’m happy to wait if it won’t be on the Microsoft store and I actually really do understand the choice to go to epic and absolutely don’t blame you guys at all for doing it. People may not have the empathy to understand but we all have to pay the rent. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions!
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Danley 01-Aug-19 01:36 PM
(And maybe I've underestimated your marketing, but I've followed a ton of games, my steam wishlist is like 1300+ with hundreds more on itch.io and just bookmarked blogs, but I think you guys may have underestimated how much this game touches the pulse of casual low stress sim gaming and how good of a job you've done selling it already. obviously this is why epic offered you what they did but I also think you could have gone with a console exclusive rather than pc platform exclusive and followed in Hello Games shoes in terms of success) (edited)
Jaypi3 01-Aug-19 01:37 PM
I want every supporter to upload a picture of their recipt as proof that they truly support the game. Also I don't think GOG is hurting too much from Epic exclusivity, they're still riding off sales from the Witcher 3 and soon Cyberpunk 2077
anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 01:37 PM
If you're worried about monopolies, you could always spread out your game purchases. Buy this game on Epic, buy the next game on Steam, then Gog, then Itch. But it seems like folks weren't really worried about monopolies until EGS rolled up.
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Tablet 01-Aug-19 01:37 PM
I'm just gonna put my points here respectfully as possible cause I'd rather not have them drowned out as just "toxic gamer hate"; - Calling all the people genuinely interested in your project "entitled" because they have a problem with EGS and would rather have a DRM free/Steam/GOG launch is not a great way to preemtively handle criticism when you acknowledge that moving to EGS is a controversial move in the gaming community. If anything, it makes you sound entitled to the support of fans even if they don't like Epic Games. - The "there are worse things to worry about" defense is also in poor taste. Just because there are worse things in the world doesn't mean you are now shielded from all legitimate criticism, and it feels wrong to use serious issues as a deflection method like that. - In the announcment you ignore many of the actual problems with Epic Games Store that people have (such as bad customer support, bad business practices, bad security, etc) in order to downplay the legitimate faults people have with EGS, and I believe that's disingenuous at best and misleading at worst. I really love the look of this game and i've been interested in it for the last two years so it comes from a place of real care for the game that I think that this has overall been a terrible move. Thanks for listening
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Catweasel 01-Aug-19 01:38 PM
EGS is the only one of those options directly attacking others livelihood.
Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 01:38 PM
@Scruffo Yes. Epic is 40% owned by Tencent. Tencent is the largest corp in China, who works closely with the chinese government to help put people in prison over things like political jokes in PRIVATE CHATS (such as WeChat, which is a chinese version of Whatsapp). But hey - you enjoy your freedoms and you spend your money, who cares about the world. You'd think @perplamps does, since he wrote that very nice condescending list of things we should care more about, right? Right?
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Cannongerbil 01-Aug-19 01:38 PM
ah I love the smell of a meltdown in progress (edited)
joey_jrpg 01-Aug-19 01:39 PM
moving to EGS for just the money is such a bad move. literally any other pc game store would have been a better move
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Danley 01-Aug-19 01:39 PM
Do hope a physical box DRM free copy comes out eventually though
ecstaticegg 01-Aug-19 01:39 PM
Bruh I just wanna know Microsoft store yes or no? Does anyone know?
Jaypi3 01-Aug-19 01:39 PM
People ask you if you're okay, but you say you're fine, but you're not really fine ya know? (edited)
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Solomon 01-Aug-19 01:39 PM
I would assume not because then it wouldn't be PC exclusive
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 01:39 PM
The entire internet when a developer treats them like heck but that game lookin fun as heck https://youtu.be/C5Ggd-mdquE
C'mon, you guys know the words: argh argh argh argh, ARGH ARGH ARGH.
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 01:40 PM
@Mr. OVERKILL Lemme tell you about the time America funded juntas in South America, which lead to some massive human rights violations. Lemme tell you how the US is currently operating concentration camps, slave labour in prisons, and illegal dronings in other countries. There, now no consumption under capitalism is ethical
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cesque 01-Aug-19 01:40 PM
classy
Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:40 PM
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Rks 01-Aug-19 01:40 PM
@perplamps Just heard about the deal. Great move, your deserve it! can't wait to see what the game becomes!
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Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 01:41 PM
@Scruffo let me tell you how I don't care because I'm not american and I don't live there. But nice of you to assume the US = the world 😃
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Jaypi3 01-Aug-19 01:41 PM
I agree with Jason man, they should've just shut up after saying they needed the money for funding, I would've been totally cool, then they went off about mocking people and it just went down hill from there.
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 01:42 PM
There's kind of no winning with the tone of the announcement. If they went more businesslike, people accuse them of being sellouts. With their more casual and open tone, people accuse them of being flippant.
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:42 PM
@Tablet thanks for the feedback. I think you're right that I misjudged the reaction to my post. I honestly thought the levity would cool things down and make people realize there's really nothing to get angry about. i mean, nobody has skin in the game but us and Epic tbh I did have to cut some stuff for the sake of not making a massive essay, but I tried to wrap the growing pains stuff up in my points about development process
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lighten 01-Aug-19 01:42 PM
Reminder that people are not obligated to be polite to you when you treat them like trash
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Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:43 PM
"Something tells me that the people claiming...never bought anyway" Is..is that not also condescending to just assume what your audience think? I would happily have bought this game, even WITH epic exclusivity. But not after this blatant arrogance and condescending behaviour
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 01:43 PM
yeah, i think you'd be surprised how often indies try to put out "professional" press releases and it just doesn't work. it's way more honest to act like a person when you're a team that small
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Westbahnhof 01-Aug-19 01:43 PM
I think making statements like " Something tells me that the people claiming our announcement was rude or condescending are not people who would have ever bought Ooblets anyway..?" kinda suck. I'm still interested in buying the game, but man, that blog post was condescending, and I feel like you're calling me a liar here for saying I felt that way. I wish you success, too, not gonna act like the blog post ruined it for me, but it did leave behind a bad taste in my mouth, basically.
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 01:43 PM
This game has been on my wishlist for two years. What a scam man. Using steam for an advertising platform then abandoned them.
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wil 01-Aug-19 01:44 PM
let's make sure that if you complain here that it doesn't help to keep repeating your complaints, it's good to move on after getting out your anger (edited)
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Librian 01-Aug-19 01:44 PM
@Strawberry Pancake Have fun waiting another 3 years
Tablet 01-Aug-19 01:44 PM
They 100% could have done a casual announcement without coming off as condescending though, in their attempts to preemptively respond to criticism they ended up lumping a lot of people with genuine criticisms into the "angry toxic gamer" crowed which was a bad move also @perplamps thanks for the response, but I do think it's important that you consider the actual criticism people have with Epic Games, because it is more than just "we're too lazy to download another launcher". You mentioned Human Rights Abuses as one of the things you cared about, so it might be worth looking into Tencent's involvment with Epic Games and how they abuse the rights of people living in China.
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 01:44 PM
Yo real question - why take money from epic when you could just crowdfund from people who want to buy the game
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:45 PM
I think the honest truth is that a bunch of people who've never heard of Ooblets did come in here from Reddit -- I don't want to lump everyone criticizing us into that group but you've got to imagine from my perspective I'm getting all the calm stuff thrown in with a lot of vitriol
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Danley 01-Aug-19 01:45 PM
This should be pinned. If you got the deal you wanted then you guys have succeeded already in this development and now get to focus on the next 100,000 sales. this is bigger for epic than it will be worse for you
20_Bucks 01-Aug-19 01:45 PM
I have to thank you. You have saved me money. I was gonna buy this game twice one for my girlfriend and myself. With how you are handling this I see you are people I would definitely not want to fund in anyway possible. This has been eye opening, thank you.
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jacob 01-Aug-19 01:45 PM
i love you guys and are happy you are doing well! i think this is a very important and good move especially in such a difficult industry (for the devs, not the players)
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 01:45 PM
I figure I would play this in place of Animal Crossing til it comes out. But nah, I just preorder a Tamagotchi On instead.
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KaySuave 01-Aug-19 01:45 PM
@perplamps there’s not much discussion to have. The decision is already taken, there’s no going back. Some people don’t like it being a EGS exclusive specially since it was promoted on Steam. The post was bad and grouped all people with problems on exclusivity under the same category calling them entitled, toxic, and “Gamers” as an insult. You call people on attacking but I don’t think you realize some felt attacked by your post 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Litvac 01-Aug-19 01:45 PM
-effective crowdfunding is difficult -game dev is expensive -marketing is hard and takes time -they are currently a team of two -just let developers make the decisions they feel is best for their games maybe? (edited)
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Catbus 01-Aug-19 01:46 PM
yeah i mean if you call people idiots ur gonna get the same reaction idk what you expected.
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 01:46 PM
I mean basically almost every single ding dong who is mad has come here from Reddit or 4chan, which explains all the right wing memes and the unbelievable garbage people
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foolish demon 01-Aug-19 01:46 PM
@Paragon Deku I assume it's a waiting thing right? Epic fronts an advance they can pay for necessities right now. They would still have to wait a long time for kickstarter or indiegogo to pay out, but the electric bill needs paying right now. I'm still hoping @perplamps will address security concerns.
Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:46 PM
Even if people did come in from reddit and were toxic, you don't then shout at them anyway, you just ignore and get rid of those idiots. However to be condescending to your audience who ADORED your game and were super excited for it is not okay
lighten 01-Aug-19 01:46 PM
I mean if you feel grouped up with toxic gamers have some introspection
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 01:46 PM
“Just let developers make the decisions” I mean sure but then they can’t expect me to buy their game. Let me make the decisions as a consumer.
Tim Sweeney 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
I know that Ooblets wasn't going to be published for GNU/Linux anyway (which I understand since GNU/Linux gamers are a tiny minority), but restricting the release to a platform which is actually hostile to GNU/Linux users removes any chances for some people to actually buy the game and playing it, even by using Wine/Proton.
wil 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
paragon i think you made your point you're not buying the game
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
uhhh have you ever heard of checks notes the FREE MEERKAT???
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Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
There's a lot of deflecting going on here. Example: People with legit concerns get labelled as from Reddit or 4chan
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
@Tablet I am definitely aware of the Tencent stuff. I think there are a lot of things that aren't public that give me a broader understanding of that issue but I'm not sure I can talk about them
Raekai 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
Some of us do have skin in the game, though. My partner and I have spent money on Patreon and on merchandise to support this game. We both only use Steam. It's a bit of a bummer, especially when it was supposed to launch on Steam.
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Lodeman 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
Hey, I think it might be a good move to make an additional blog-post to clarify that the blog was meant in a light-hearted way, without meaning to categorise non EGS fans into one bin. You have very good reasons for accepting the deal, I'd have done the same in your shoes. You don't need to list any more reasons than that.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
@2e7en, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
ecstaticegg 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
Imma assume no on the Microsoft store then. That’s okay. I really hope you guys do well but I will personally choose to wait. And I hope despite the fact that a lot of people will overreact and throw vitriol at you that you guys take some of the criticism to heart. I agree that this post didn’t break my desire to play your game but I would ask to consider what happened here in future announcements and while you are asking for empathy from your consumers that you have empathy for them in return when make future announcements or interaction. Because that post seemed totally lacking in empathy for people who may have issues with epic.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
@2e7en said: Hello I just joined to say how disappointing this whole situation is. Not only is moving to epic such a horrible decision for your fans but the way you wrote that stupid post is some of the worse condescending * I've seen a dev do. Thank you for ruining my day and my week and go * yourself for talking to us like a **** who clearly has no grasp of the situation. I need you to know that the reason I will pirate it is because of how you worded that post and not the EGS decision. Thanks.
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
specifically in regard to Steam, who again, we really like and have no issue with
cesque 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
i know, like it undeniably sucks that its going to EGS, but who is getting that mad about it honestly. just, don't buy it, or play another game. or wait til the steam release. that said, i think patreon supporters have the right to be quite a bit more unhappy
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
They could of just said "WE NEED MONEY." So we sold our souls to the satanic epic store. But nah they went the same route as all these other devs. Calling their customers stupid.
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joey_jrpg 01-Aug-19 01:47 PM
@perplamps maybe in the future just tone down your style of humor, clearly people dont think its as funny or appropriate as you do. im most likely wont even pirate it though, since i dont agree with how you devs are, since thats really important to me for indie games. maybe next time just go for GoG or someplace else
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ILikePopcans 01-Aug-19 01:48 PM
I been excited about ooblets for awhile and am sad about all the negative words you're getting @perplamps . All I will say is I'm not thrilled with how you talk about the arguments against EGS but not talk about the major one being if you live outside the US where EGS is not supported in as many countries as Steam and does not have as many currency exchanges
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BubbaNitro 01-Aug-19 01:48 PM
So are you saying Epic gave you assurances their epic store doesn't send data to Tencent?
Bangus 01-Aug-19 01:48 PM
Gonna be as chill as possible with this as I think the Devs intention here is understandable, money is crucial and making sure you're financially stable is a big priority, I've been following the game for 2 years at this point and I think it's adorable, however I do have genuine concerns about the Epic Game Store from a security perspective especially with reports of spyware, I'm not mad about the change, just disappointed, but I'll be buying the game as soon as it hits Xbox
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KaySuave 01-Aug-19 01:48 PM
@lighten so since I don’t like to download bloatware on my PC and a post calls me entitled and toxic because of that I should have some introspection? That’s even dumber that the other side argument
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Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 01:48 PM
@Scruffo, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Scruffo said: Tencent isn't even a majority shareholder for crying out loud, and Discord also has Tencent funding/investment. These people don't know what the **** they're talking about
Danley 01-Aug-19 01:48 PM
(Side comment all PR is BS. Most consumers are disenfranchised and exhausted by their working class lives and mostly screwed over in real ways by chem, ag, energy, govt, law, etc etc. but creative development like this should absolutely be a venue for devs to say their frank opinion about economics and business and it's not unfair to say gamers, myself included, are overentitled asses, but it's for all the aforementioned reasons about things we have no voice in)
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Catbus 01-Aug-19 01:48 PM
don't like egs = entitled; complain about being called entitled GAMR (tm) on the official discord = congrats you are now toxic. so yeah i feel grouped in them t0xIc GaMeRs
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didi 01-Aug-19 01:48 PM
just a question, the EGS mean that your game have TO BE MADE IN EPIC ENGINE? ir no? I dont rememeber but rebeca wasnt making it in unity?
Omakehell 01-Aug-19 01:48 PM
not really, you just get a bigger cut (edited)
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 01:48 PM
Epic doesn’t have an exclusive engine for their storefront.
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:49 PM
@ILikePopcans definitely care about that but I don't actually know the full extent of how it's hostile to other locales and what strides they're making there. I assume it's something they are working on, not sure why you'd think they wouldn't want to take your money
lighten 01-Aug-19 01:49 PM
@KaySuave i use steam not epic and yet didn’t feel called out has a toxic gamer wonders that
Majestic Bastard 01-Aug-19 01:49 PM
20 games on my Wishlist, Ooblets has always been number 1 until Silksong was announced. 2 years on my Wishlist with money saved in steam wallet waiting for it. not only am i disappointed about the egs but the fact that the post was written in a very condesending and diverting way.
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Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 01:49 PM
I don't think the game has to change engines to be published by Epic (fail). Unity it should stay.
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Lodeman 01-Aug-19 01:49 PM
I keep reading "don't like egs" as "don't like eggs" 🥚 🥚 🥚
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Jacobim 01-Aug-19 01:49 PM
y'all saying "Epic (fail)" are really helping the "g*mers aren't children" cause
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:49 PM
@BubbaNitro no I'm not saying that at all. I think that's a bit of a goofy thing to be worried about, especially on Discord and all the other platforms you prob participate that are working with Tencent
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Kotzman 01-Aug-19 01:50 PM
I don't think the EGS stuff is a big deal, but definitely seems like the tone of the post/comments has been off putting to people and that's kind of understandable. I do hope that the community gives the devs a chance to make it up to them though. They are just two human people making a game and managing a community so PR mistakes are bound to happen
Litvac 01-Aug-19 01:50 PM
the ooblets team did a great job handling the announcement. it didn't feel disingenuous. it was on-brand and transparent as they always are. it feels pretty disrespectful how many people are attacking them for this decision if i am going to be honest.
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Librian 01-Aug-19 01:50 PM
@Jacobim Then what are you then? Person who plays games but not a gamer?
Danley 01-Aug-19 01:50 PM
lol @Majestic Bastard there's no way you're saying money for a game on a wish list for 2 years. PR makes people say such ridiculous things
wil 01-Aug-19 01:50 PM
make sure to fight against tencent by uninstalling discord after leaving your comment that you're not buying the game because of epic and are upset about the tone
KaySuave 01-Aug-19 01:50 PM
@lighten “paying for PC exclusives has become the latest thing Gamers™ have gotten angry about” and then goes on calling them entitled and toxic. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:51 PM
Are y'all gonna apologise properly for being condescending to your fans or just gonna keep being like "Tencent isn't even the problem, go away reddit people and stop whining" ?
lighten 01-Aug-19 01:51 PM
Anyway to everybody who’s saying the dev should have used an other tone so has to avoid harrasement (and literal death threat mind you) you’re victim blaming and you suck , with that i’m done gotta go gish
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 01:51 PM
This is a prime example that we should NEVER trust any indie dev again.
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 01:51 PM
the real question you guys aren't considering: Will The Floss Be Implemented In The Game Proper?
Bangus 01-Aug-19 01:51 PM
Also why I understand many of the grievances of the people posting here, there's no reason to be rude, having a civil discussion costs nothing, show a little respect
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2e7en 01-Aug-19 01:51 PM
the person who wrote that blog post has to be a different level of stupid
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ecstaticegg 01-Aug-19 01:51 PM
Whether people’s concerns about epic or valid or not, insulting your potential consumers over their hesitancy is a bad move.
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Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 01:51 PM
@Jaypi3, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Jaypi3 said: At the end of the day they already took the money and right now they're just waiting out the storm for people to stop ** so they can continue development assuming they haven't already.
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ILikePopcans 01-Aug-19 01:52 PM
@perplamps it's not about what they want but what they are currently offering on their platform which is less then the competition 😉 I hope you forget about today and ooblets is an amazing game that i will buy day 1
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Majestic Bastard 01-Aug-19 01:52 PM
@Danley have always had at least 25 in my account
Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 01:52 PM
Are y'all gonna apologise properly for being condescending to your fans or just gonna keep being like "Tencent isn't even the problem, go away reddit people and stop whining" ? Would have been done ages ago if they had any intention. truth be told - if I were high on the smell of money - I too would probably tell people to F off thinkguns (probably not... I like having integrity...)
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:53 PM
do you say all that stuff in the same breath as claiming not to be an entitled toxic gamer?
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 01:53 PM
“Why care about exclusives when climate change is a thing” You’re right. So I’ll use the money I was gonna use to buy your game or anything you ever make for the more important goal of stopping climate change. Thank you for enlightening me.
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Catbus 01-Aug-19 01:53 PM
dude PLEASE stop saying toxic dude
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 01:53 PM
People probably would have given em money if they needed it so badly just to stay away from Epic.
Rhogar 01-Aug-19 01:53 PM
wow perlamps that's just lazy writting right there (edited)
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Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:53 PM
So how much of that Epic money are you donating to humans rights charities, global warming campaigns, since if you're mad at us for being "entitled" you should just be mad at those things instead 🤔
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lilykp 01-Aug-19 01:53 PM
jesus h christ y'all are toxic
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cesque 01-Aug-19 01:53 PM
honestly gamers are toxic
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wil 01-Aug-19 01:53 PM
i don't know why anyone should take someone seriously when they have a 4chan avatar
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 01:53 PM
Gamers are trash
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 01:54 PM
gamers deserve to be oppressed
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lennii 01-Aug-19 01:54 PM
can promise yall I am one of those people deffo wanted to buy ooblets..... and yes I thought the announcement was condescending.. and yes I think the dev responses in here are even more condescending and downright rude. I literally watched the trailer everyday for ages just to bop to the lil song, I showed all my friends and fam how cool it looked, I made fanart and checked on progress as soon as info was released.. but what do I know!!!!! I guess I was NeVeR GonNa BuY iT aNYwAy 🤡🤡 (hint, sadly I'm not now. and that's gutting bc it's not because of the epic store, its because these devs are actual children) thanks for the fun before u ruined it
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2e7en 01-Aug-19 01:54 PM
i feel more insulted by the idi ot who wrote that post
bee 01-Aug-19 01:54 PM
if none of you can see a problem with how you are speaking you are so absolutely deluded it’s ridiculous
Solomon 01-Aug-19 01:54 PM
There's almost no online company you can interact with that has no connection to Tencent. But that's not my problem, I just don't trust Epic as a distribution company. Their store itself has had plenty of security issues that shouldn't be around in a product of a company this size. Their customer support and policies suck and their carelessness with sales, discounts and foreign markets have caused real problems for indie developers in the past. I know that the exclusivity deal will help the development but I wish it could have been on any other platform but Epic.
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Librian 01-Aug-19 01:54 PM
The state of the chat right now
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seemaq 01-Aug-19 01:55 PM
aren't y'all gamers too
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Melody 01-Aug-19 01:55 PM
I don't think there's any reason ever to put down your audience and consumers. "people claiming our announcement was rude or condescending are not people who would have ever bought Ooblets anyway" doesn't really need to be said, even if you're thinking it. Just makes people more mad. It's a little ignorant to so blatantly not want to understand why some people are upset about this. When you put down your fans, even people that aren't personally bothered by it get kind of turned of. Basically if we don't agree we're people who "wouldn't have bought it anyway" so we don't matter
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ecstaticegg 01-Aug-19 01:55 PM
Having to take criticism sucks and I’m super bad at it. I think you might be like me. I get mad even though I know I shouldn’t. My recommendation @perplamps is just sign off for now. Let this blow over and reflect a little bit. Not everyone who disagrees with this is toxic but the toxic people are going to be the loudest. Then in a few days maybe make another post about this whole thing. Just be like “hey man we hear you guys. We didn’t mean to come off as hostile we were just trying to be funny and it didn’t land” and then leave it at that. (edited)
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HeartShine 3
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 01:55 PM
Whatever you @ at me got deleted by our nazi lords.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 01:55 PM
@Paragon Deku, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Paragon Deku said: * GAMERS AND * GAMING AMIRITE
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foolish demon 01-Aug-19 01:55 PM
Does Epic have any editorial control? @perplamps
ABCelestial 01-Aug-19 01:56 PM
Seriously, it is unreal how ridiculous some of you are being, with no sense of self awareness to speak of. Read your own posts. Actually read what you are writing.
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 01:56 PM
@Melody @ecstaticegg you folks make good points so I'm gonna take a little break. I will still be answering emails and trying to be as understanding as possible
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 01:56 PM
If it were possible, I would oppress gamers, regrettably it is impossible to oppress them.
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greg 01-Aug-19 01:56 PM
1000% agree with what melody said
wil 01-Aug-19 01:56 PM
please make sure not to get offended on behalf of other people from a blog post that's incredibly harmless
2e7en 01-Aug-19 01:56 PM
i want to say thank you to these moronic devs for ruining my day and week.
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Lodeman 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
May I recommend a kit-kat during your break
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Monochrome Baku 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
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Bonzi77 🌞 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
you're not you when you're hungry
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Catbus 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
@KawaiiLife how am i supposed to take someone seriously whos called KawaiiLife#5862
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
very cool when someone yells and throws a fit about how toxic they're not being
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Danley 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
@Strawberry Pancake lol the moral of the story is that if an indie dev makes a controversial decision to grow their small company because they made a deal with a big company more prone to be shady...we should only trust big companies more prone to be shady. this is like when players get blamed for how expensive professional sports is, and not the owners
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Librian 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
"I support the devs and their decision."
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Melody 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
@perplamps Good plan! Go cool off a bit and take a break. Have a tea or something and relax. You'll get through this. I still believe in you and the Ooblets team. ♡ Learning experience.
anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
@Monagana
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lonewookie 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
ya'll are why phil fish quit gamedev
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stylus 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
ouch
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HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
When we dismiss and ridicule people for being 'gamers', it's actually not toxic. The anti-'gamer' (a demographic we invented) rhetoric we spout actually gets us many likes and maybe even a verified checkmark on Twitter.
Catweasel 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
I had no idea there were so many britney spears fans in 2019
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 01:57 PM
The devs right now I swear
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Toasty 01-Aug-19 01:58 PM
@Monochrome Baku me coming online for the first time in a year and seeing this
bee 01-Aug-19 01:58 PM
we get it, the devs did make some mistakes nobody is perfect they are just two people trying to make the best choices for their game @perplamps @nonplayercat i hope you guys can have a better day !
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 01:58 PM
Money makes people shady.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 01:58 PM
@Mr. OVERKILL, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Mr. OVERKILL said: @perplamps Look, dismiss people all you want. I'm not even so much a "gamer" (I'm a CG artist and a photographer first and foremost) as I hate a part of that "group" to begin with - you are right in terms of those with neckbeards and "streams" earning them $2/mo in their basement. You won't get lip from me on that one. But take some god-d*mn critique and stop telling everyone they're "toxic" like some far-left brat. You've got your money bags - OWN it! Apologize for being a * in the address to the people, take a breather and think how PR works for once.
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@Monagana, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Monagana said: Why are you all so willing to take whatever the dev says as the new Bible? I'll admit I was being an earlier but do you honestly think he is in the right by being such an *** to his customers?
2e7en 01-Aug-19 01:59 PM
no, the moral of the story is indie dev takes moeny and then insults all of the fans that made this game into a hyped game because they lack talking skills and lack awareness.
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Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 01:59 PM
Literally the Epic thing isn't even that bad like I said. The PR for this has just been so horrendous that you've made your fans who loved the game SO much they would've happily bought it on Epic anyway no longer want to buy it PepeHands
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ByteMe 01-Aug-19 01:59 PM
Hi, i joined just to say this but. I personally don't mind the epic move, epic in general doesn't bother me. What upsets me however is this being a crowdfunded game which you've now made an exclusive.
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 02:00 PM
Channers lecturing people about PR is adorable
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:00 PM
Imagine going to a concert and the band is crap and then yells to the crowd “Stop being a bunch of toxic music listeners!”
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:00 PM
We got scam.
Lodeman 01-Aug-19 02:00 PM
I think I'll follow perplamps lead and take a break too, seems like a good time for ice cream with sprinklezz
Zync 01-Aug-19 02:00 PM
Have they said if they're giving refunds for backers yet?
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 02:00 PM
@Jasonblox6 you're using a pepe meme my dude. i don't think you're really here in good faith
stylus 01-Aug-19 02:00 PM
kirbtrip
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ecstaticegg 01-Aug-19 02:00 PM
Guys taking criticism is hard. Like really hard. I think they messed up but if almost any of you think you would be handling this better you’re wrong. You’d be just as confrontational as evident by your being confrontational here. Doesn’t change the fact they made a mistake but I do think y’all need to chill just a lil bit.
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 02:00 PM
@ByteMe but the people who crowdfunded it can still buy it... right? it's not like you need to buy a console
MiRIr 01-Aug-19 02:00 PM
It's just a timed exclusive, no? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Librian 01-Aug-19 02:00 PM
I wouldn't move to Epic so this would never happen to me
June_July 01-Aug-19 02:01 PM
Funny how most these angry "fans" who love the game so much have never been on the discord and only appeared with this controversy 🤔
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Pontythings 01-Aug-19 02:01 PM
I'm very sad about the news. I've been following Ooblets since it's very first announcement and while I haven't been financially able to support the project I was excited. My friends and I were waiting for every update and talked about how fun it would be. It's the only game that seemed to combine all the things I liked in a fun, cute way. Unfortunately, I can't see myself supporting the Epic Games store especially after the statements made about people who disagree with the situation so I'll have to say goodbye to Ooblets.
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Danley 01-Aug-19 02:01 PM
@Majestic Bastard I hope to get a shelf copy of this game someday it looks great. and I'm not saying you shouldn't order it in early access or at launch. but saving money for a game on a wish list is arbitrarily hard to prove or just a bad idea vs just pre-ordering it. you support no one but valve and are just hanging it over their heads for consumer leverage none of us really have
Catweasel 01-Aug-19 02:01 PM
Only true fans who follow the game from the start are allowed to care about this!
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seemaq 01-Aug-19 02:01 PM
I knew y'all would be mad as soon as I saw the e-mail
jelaku 01-Aug-19 02:01 PM
Basically the devs made a post in really poor taste where they managed to rile up a bunch of people who would not really consider themselves "toxic gamers" by making a strawman "toxic entitled weird anti-EGS gamer" which they then attack for a majority of the post, lumping in people with valid concerns with EGS (none of which they note in the post).
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Monochrome Baku 01-Aug-19 02:01 PM
@MiRIr They said they'd like to port to Steam at some point so I don't think it'll be exclusive forever
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ByteMe 01-Aug-19 02:01 PM
@sam suite my problem is if something is crowdfunded you shouldn't have to SELL the product to another company which is basically what has happened here even if it IS a temporary exlusivity.
Tablet 01-Aug-19 02:01 PM
I have to respect how Perplamps is handling the criticism, they seem to be handling this very maturely and respectfully and I have to give them credit for how they're dealing with this much backlash ...but from what ive seen a lot of the other admins aren't doing so well, and it's honestly disappointing to see them classifying all criticisms as "angry redditors/gamers", "they weren't going to buy the game anyway", "toxic", etc.
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Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 02:02 PM
@anosmicanimator I have been in this discord for what I can only assume is well over a year. I have been beyond excited for this game. It's the internet, I'm allowed to use a pepe meme good lord? To tell me I'm not here in good faith is actually very hurtful
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:02 PM
@Scruffo "everyone I don't like is literally 4chan"
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:02 PM
Just wait for it to be thrown into a humble bundle with all the other rejects.
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2e7en 01-Aug-19 02:02 PM
I think we need to do something about toxic devs like these
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Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 02:02 PM
Guys taking criticism is hard. Like really hard. I think they messed up but if almost any of you think you would be handling this better you’re wrong Actually, there are several things that reveal who the person REALLY is inside. Alcohol, drugs, criticism, etc. Someone who doesn't have the strength to own mistakes will ALWAYS get defensive. Basic psychology. You F up - you blame others. Hence the "toxic" thrown every other reply...
sam suite 01-Aug-19 02:03 PM
@ByteMe i hate to break it to you but the vast majority of crowdfunded games don't make enough money from crowdfunding alone -- the crowdfunding proves interest, which they use to get a publishing deal. this is extremely normal
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ecstaticegg 01-Aug-19 02:03 PM
Saying “I wouldn’t move my game to epic” is not a response yall. You definitely would if they wrote you a big enough check and your rent was coming up. And also you aren’t making a game epic wants so it’s a real empty tough guy response. All I’m saying is you can be the bigger person and have empathy for them. Let them have the space to breathe, realize they made a mistake and deal with it. (edited)
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 02:04 PM
@Jasonblox6 eh, that's fair. pepe has some bad connotations nowadays but i shouldn't assume people's intentions based on an emote
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ByteMe 01-Aug-19 02:04 PM
@sam suite then open more funding, they have enough people who would GLADLY pay more money rather than have it as an exclusive.
hmaon 01-Aug-19 02:04 PM
@ByteMe doubt that very much
Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 02:04 PM
It was only PepeHands Now you've made me even sadder PepeHands
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cob 01-Aug-19 02:04 PM
how come you can post fast and i cant
Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 02:05 PM
space magic
Librian 01-Aug-19 02:05 PM
@ecstaticegg Nah I'm not a massive shill who is moved by money
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:05 PM
The argument isn't because they took epic money. It's that they treated us badly even after supporting them this long.
lilykp 01-Aug-19 02:05 PM
i don't think you understand the sheer level of funding needed for game development, or that epic can provide @ByteMe (edited)
theberlz 01-Aug-19 02:05 PM
Please let me know what your big plan is to take care of "toxic devs"
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:05 PM
Total lack of funding here I swear guys
Scruffo 01-Aug-19 02:05 PM
I mean @Jasonblox6 probably you should avoid posting it altogether for a variety of reasons. All the weirdo racists online that LOVE to use it, the creator of the cartoon hating the meme.
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Katie 01-Aug-19 02:05 PM
I don’t think people understand how expensive games are??
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Bunbunun 01-Aug-19 02:05 PM
@ByteMe @sam suite yeah most of the Patreon supporters (including me) have no issue with their taking more money; the patron doesn’t really give them a ton of funding. They need more money, so they’re getting it (edited)
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seemaq 01-Aug-19 02:05 PM
isn't pepeHands a twitch thing
Litvac 01-Aug-19 02:06 PM
i don't know if you folks understand how expensive game dev is
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 02:06 PM
If I were a developer, I would simply do the correct thing and not make the gamers mad.
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ByteMe 01-Aug-19 02:06 PM
@lilykp i'm a games developer. i know how much funding is.
Arq 01-Aug-19 02:06 PM
People acting like they know while even game devs don't know themselves
Lauren 01-Aug-19 02:06 PM
Why is this on slow mode
June_July 01-Aug-19 02:06 PM
Imagine the lack of self awareness of complaining about "toxic devs" while this entire chat is a dumpster fire of clowns (edited)
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stylus 01-Aug-19 02:07 PM
omegakek
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:07 PM
So what do you call a dev that lies then?
jelaku 01-Aug-19 02:07 PM
Just because I wear makeup doesn't make me a clown
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 02:07 PM
@Paragon Deku Hey quick question, do you know the cost of living and the amount of money they need to make every month to break even?
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Katie 01-Aug-19 02:07 PM
It’s ok for you guys to not have an opinion on this. You don’t know how much games take to make, so don’t act like you do! For them it’s rent, money, food, work. For you it’s a game, entertainment. What’s more important here?
Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 02:07 PM
Anyone still arguing because they don't like Epic is not really understanding at this point. People should be upset about the condescending nature of the whole thing rather than Epic. And I think they're maybe slowly realising that hopefully whilst they take a break. sadwa I have elected for Sad Waluigi this time as apparently Pepe was too gross or whatever apparently
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Melody 01-Aug-19 02:07 PM
How many of those 1141 patrons are $1 supporters. And Patreon takes a portion of funds. How is that supposed to pay rent and make a game
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Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 02:07 PM
I don’t think people understand how expensive games are?? @Katie List prices then! I'm a CG artist and I understand that fully. Rebecca was literally the only coder/artist of a PASSION PROJECT. If you think coffee and rent are "expensive" then I don't know what to say... Patreon will cover that + any tutorials and assets she needed. I don't know what the "dude" does. (I'll call him "dude" as that's how he speaks to people - like an entitled college dude)
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MiRIr 01-Aug-19 02:07 PM
I gotta be real with y'all. I would've signed the Epic deal too. It sounds killer for financial security at the cost of a few days of negative PR.
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Tom 🐝 01-Aug-19 02:08 PM
So what was the plan? Did they just want to make fans fight and alienate a lot of them?
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:08 PM
I'm immediately a little skeptical of someone who doesn't make their patreon in-flow public and only lists number of patrons @Scruffo of course not. But there are a million ways to make money that don't involve fouling up yourself and consumers in the process
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LucAce 01-Aug-19 02:08 PM
To think. Literally all he had to do was say "We're on Epic, refunds if you don't like it." and none of this would have happened.
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MineTimelapser (Floris) 01-Aug-19 02:08 PM
Katie is a game developer lol
Librian 01-Aug-19 02:09 PM
"Just sell your soul for money, who needs friends when you have mindless bots who like everything you do?"
bee 01-Aug-19 02:09 PM
@Tom 🐝 literally no
stylus 01-Aug-19 02:09 PM
kirbtrip
anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 02:09 PM
@LucAce people would have complained they were being curt and dismissive then. there's no winning. people were going to read a negative tone into whatever they said.
tjspeirs 01-Aug-19 02:09 PM
god this is dumb. i'll come back in a couple days
hmaon 01-Aug-19 02:09 PM
rent isn't expensive?
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:09 PM
Tell that to the guy who made Stardew Valley, BY HIMSELF. Did he have any funds? Nope. He just had a dream.
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Toasty 01-Aug-19 02:09 PM
i can take this complaining about egs but i can't take these pro landlord arguments
Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 02:09 PM
Katie is a game developer lol I'd understand this statement if she was EMPLOYED by a company that employs a bunch of other people. Employees cost a ton of money - you pay their wages, get gear for them, any benefits, etc. When you create artwork by yourself in your blasted bedroom - you've not got the same costs that Ubisoft incurs.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 02:09 PM
@Danley, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Danley said: @ecstaticegg I don;t think so. I think they sold themselves short because it made their lives easier and more stable in the short term. Nothing wrong with that. They could be the game to redeem EGS and the whole controversy of crowdfunded games going exclusive. But it's just befuddling because they had excellent prelaunch 'PR' thus far and were really selling the game well. not seeing a return through patreon is just cause ****'s tough for a lot of people that might play casual sims like this. They could have gone with Nintendo or Square or some other big publisher, that's how good things looked compared to other games in the market right now. they chose to go exclusive on the most open platform that is the home computer. only MMOs should be launcher only. everything else is an eventual risk to fail. I'm going to buy this game and send gift copies of this game to people I know would love it. But if the launcher breaks like games for windows live has broken for multiple games I own physical copies of, I'm going to hope someone cracked it (or it went drm-free)
deedles 01-Aug-19 02:09 PM
I have literally no qualms for myself with it being on the epic store, I just hope others don’t make up qualms for themselves to harm sales lumpstump
Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 02:09 PM
See I agree, the negative PR wouldn't have even have been too bad, had they then not been rude and condescending to people who love Ooblets and would happily have bought it anyway @MiRIr
ambientocclusion 01-Aug-19 02:10 PM
@Strawberry Pancake lol if you think you can project that onto every indie dev
Tom 🐝 01-Aug-19 02:10 PM
With their whole blog and the whole "think about things that are more important" (which you can be angry about multiple things at once). It seems like they were expecting the backlash and literally gave everyone ammunition to be angry at them
sam suite 01-Aug-19 02:10 PM
@Strawberry Pancake oh my god shut up. no one should have to starve good god
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 02:10 PM
@Paragon Deku List the costs you think exist when it comes to making an independent game.
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:11 PM
@Scruffo it helps no one to be reductive. I'm not claiming to know since that's such a completely varied thing depending on where the devs live and how much they're actually needing to pay for development rather than simply living while developing
Katie 01-Aug-19 02:11 PM
I’m not Ubisoft but I have my own patreon, hire people to my company, and have funding for my game
Librian 01-Aug-19 02:11 PM
Also to the people saying "But rent and food!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afkN9H9aLow
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stylus 01-Aug-19 02:11 PM
kirbtrip kirbtrip kirbtrip kirbtrip kirbtrip
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ThePhantomQueers 01-Aug-19 02:11 PM
I’m just hoping the Epic Store doesn’t shaft them upon release day. but other than that I have no qualms with it.
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:11 PM
Don't Starve, did they actually starve? Nope.
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Danley 01-Aug-19 02:11 PM
haha bad form rude bot, bad form
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bee 01-Aug-19 02:12 PM
@Strawberry Pancake leave
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big t 01-Aug-19 02:12 PM
I'm glad you guys got the funding and support through epic, though I don't know that you should have included your discord link in the same newsletter post announcing this
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greg 01-Aug-19 02:12 PM
there are two completely separate issues here: 1. the epic games store has many concerns. steam is feature rich with content that would’ve positively impacted ooblets; access to a steam community, guides, controller customization, proton support for running the game on linux, steamworks backends, the steam workshop, achievement support, discoverability features, a review system that before today i’m sure would’ve graced ooblets with overwhelmingly positive, and the list goes on. epic’s store has security issues with many people consistently reporting rogue access to their accounts and doesn’t support basic features like shopping carts or universal cloud saves or dlc! though none of these are obvious features, they will all be subtly missed in ooblets. 2. the tone of the blog post, while in line with all emails and posts thus far, was in this instance certainly out of line and used to antagonize people who would otherwise be interested in ooblets. there are several people who don’t even care about egs who have said they were turned completely off by the condescending tone! i understand that epic was able to provide security for the team, and that reason should’ve stood well enough by itself, but i’ve seen more than a few posts from developers and notable people in this community edging towards “people who didn’t like our tone wouldn’t buy the game anyway,” when you can clearly see that’s not the case. whether you view concerns about the egs as legitimate or otherwise, there was absolutely no reason to belittle concerned people and this is frankly what i’ve seen more disappointment about today. as an aside, there are some toxic people coming here just to say they will pirate the game and to talk trash. these are not people worth listening to! although some of us share their sentiment (not about piracy) we do not share their tact and simply want this game to be very successful, something we do not believe is possible on epic without serious compromise! thank you.
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 02:12 PM
@Librian this..... is a job. making games is a job. what planet are you from
anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 02:12 PM
@Strawberry Pancake the stardew dev was literally supported by his girlfirend for years on end my dude
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AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 02:12 PM
Saying "but Stardew valley" and otherwise pointing to other games are proving they don't know anything about game dev Comparing works by other people in completely different life circumstances makes...no sense, yes?
ambientocclusion 01-Aug-19 02:12 PM
@Librian you don't think this is their job? what is wrong with you? "I want games but I want the devs to suffer for it" you're toxic
MiRIr 01-Aug-19 02:12 PM
@Jasonblox6 Maybe it could've been worded better, but nobody's perfect. I can understand being told by hundreds of strangers what they should do from an armchair perspective at best can be pretty annoying. No one knows the hard details of the deal or their lives except them. I'm sure they spent a lot of time considering the deal, but maybe they're weren't fully prepared for the backlash mentally. (edited)
ecstaticegg 01-Aug-19 02:12 PM
Look guys, there was one definite indisputable mistake made here at that was the language in the announcement. Anyone defending the announcement is arguing in bad faith I think. It’s just not defensible. Whether taking the epic deal was a mistake is up for debate. That’s not as clear cut. And acting like it is to me is arguing in bad faith. There are clearly reasons why they may want to have taken the deal even if you don’t agree with those reasons.
Melody 01-Aug-19 02:12 PM
Can making the game not be their job? They're working hard on this they deserve to be paid for their work. If they have separate full time jobs, the game gets made even slower and then people will also complain
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NightKris art 01-Aug-19 02:12 PM
when I was 7, I tohught I would be a fireman. But now I support ooblets and my life is much better. So guys shut up and pay more to ooblets I love ooblets and fornight and pls support ooblets. Will smith is suporting ooblets as well
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MineTimelapser (Floris) 01-Aug-19 02:13 PM
You can’t have your cake and eat it: taking a job that’s not gamedev and still having enough time for making full games and everything involved?
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:13 PM
I don't like this tiniest studio ever narrative when games like dwarf fortress, rimworld, stardew valley, etc, were all made by one person and had infinitely more time put into them. I'm not acting like taking that fat stack of cash over seemingly nothing isn't tempting but please
Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 02:13 PM
People really be in here using Discord Light Mode???
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hmaon 01-Aug-19 02:13 PM
nobody bring up Stardew Valley as some kind of cool indie funding example if you don't appreciate that the dev was supported by his girlfriend
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2e7en 01-Aug-19 02:14 PM
one thing is to go the epic route but the bigger issue is the lack of awareness from these devs and the way they have treated us in thier responses. Completely out of pocket and made me go from a little upset to mad
Librian 01-Aug-19 02:14 PM
@sam suite @ambientocclusion So just put the game on all platforms instead of limiting it and getting less money, is it that hard?
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:14 PM
I'm making the same excuse the devs did.
deedles 01-Aug-19 02:14 PM
So are people crying about condescension or what??
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 02:14 PM
At this point I think it's a little silly to say that the devs 'get enough money already'. No indie dev studio unsure of their future would turn that offer down. That doesn't dismiss the bad PR, though.
Scruffo 01-Aug-19 02:14 PM
Yeah every mad gamer is upset about what they imagine is condescension.
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Tom 🐝 01-Aug-19 02:14 PM
Why didn't they explain a financial situation? Why didn't they explain anything properly instead of the blog just being like "You can only be angry about 1 thing at a time and that should be climate change"? Why did "perplamps" say in the blog that he was ready for an open discussion but then referred to angry fans as "entitled angry toxic gamers"? He literally just made everything worse lmaoooo
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 02:15 PM
@Paragon Deku dwarf fortress is going paid because the devs need money for medical bills. y'all are delusional. @Librian yep. putting a game on every platform isn't feasible. also, epic basically requires exclusivity. also, there would be no guarantee of the game being financially successful
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Jasonblox6 01-Aug-19 02:15 PM
People aren't crying about condescension, they're rightfully mad at literal condescension? Rebecca saying that the people who are upset probably weren't going to buy the game anyway is really insulting.
ambientocclusion 01-Aug-19 02:15 PM
@Librian I'm glad you're able to guarantee that the sales would be enough to support themselves if they release on other platforms. There's no guarantee that'll happen. EGS ensures they'll have the ability to live and eat by the time the game releases. I don't get why that's so hard to understand.
Tablet 01-Aug-19 02:15 PM
People have a variety of criticisms, ranging from the way it was handled to the actual move to EGS itself, people trying to brush off all the different criticisms as just a single root cause isn't really helpful
MiRIr 01-Aug-19 02:15 PM
Fully disclosing your financials online is already strange enough. This is the most transparent Epic deal we've had yet. (edited)
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:15 PM
@sam suite dwarf fortress is getting an UPGRADED version that you can pay for. Not equivalent to the literal years spent developing it on a pay what you want basis
2e7en 01-Aug-19 02:16 PM
can't wait for this to be a humble bundle in 4 months after it does poorly on EGS
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AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 02:16 PM
The blog post referred to people who said they would pirate the game as angry, entitled, and toxic, not anyone else. Which, if you ask me, is pretty fitting
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cob 01-Aug-19 02:16 PM
I just want to play Ooblets damnit
ABCelestial 01-Aug-19 02:16 PM
Klei?
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 02:16 PM
@alex of the edge, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@alex of the edge said: You know what? Alright, small studio (the part when they tearfully point out they have ONE programmer), strapped for cash, their first game. Fine, understandable. Sucks, but I get it. But this post? This post right here, with this attituder Go * yourself. Just * off back to Twitter or Tumblr or whatever place you smug arrogant assholes belong.
austenology 01-Aug-19 02:16 PM
My main concern here is that I really don't trust Epic not to wave more money around in the future and make things harder for broader platform releases after the exclusivity round. I hope y'all read the agreement very, very closely because I don't trust Epic games to respect you as devs in the long term. They've shown with the treatment of the Fortnite devs that they don't even respect their own.
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MineTimelapser (Floris) 01-Aug-19 02:16 PM
You guys also underestimate how many games don’t make it due to lack of funding. Choosing stability AND being able to do more than wanted without having to risk your house is a great deal as an indie dev.
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ecstaticegg 01-Aug-19 02:16 PM
Speaking of Reddit there’s a lot of choosy “I don’t think people should expect to be paid” beggars up in here
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theberlz 01-Aug-19 02:16 PM
There's a great phrase I've seen often on the internet that goes "if it don't apply, let it fly." The blog post was pretty clearly aimed to deliver a bit of snark specifically at folks who would complain about Epic exclusivity, not at fans who wanted to buy the game anyway. Y'all want companies to do whatever they want and not cave in to the ess-jay-double-UWUs but then when they DO do what they want, and deliver a bit of a snark directly aimed at the toxic bits of the community, suddenly it's "unprofessional" and clearly it means that all gamers are the same target market and thus no one will buy the game. It's not like this industry literally spends millions of dollars researching consumers and has clearly identified different target markets. Surprise surprise: not all companies actually want your money if you're not in the target market for a game. gabe_shrug Ooh, I love that nice classist meme about how working at Burger King automatically makes you a bad person or something. How dare you make money at a job in this society. Lol.
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Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 02:16 PM
@Strawberry Pancake, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Strawberry Pancake said: Doesn't mean you have to treat your customers like ****.
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:17 PM
Imagine getting offended over a stupid burger king joke on a discord. Jesus this generation is doomed
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Armour 01-Aug-19 02:17 PM
Thank you Tim Sweeney, I will
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cob 01-Aug-19 02:18 PM
join voicechat please we're discussing it civilly
Lyssa 01-Aug-19 02:18 PM
definitely
Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 02:18 PM
That's a good point. The game's sales are covered! tiebasmile
Juice 01-Aug-19 02:18 PM
just because a few people get offneded by a joke doesnt mean the whole generation is on it
Danley 01-Aug-19 02:18 PM
@big t No this is great. the controversy will do a better job drawing attention than epic would have done using its business model. (the more I think about how internet dumpster fires work, NMS etc, if the game is good this is all just Streisand Effect fallout and will draw new people who will like the game either way. still would have sold more games on steam and switch though)
CalixJumi 01-Aug-19 02:18 PM
congrats on the deal!, cant wait to play the game 🎉
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AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 02:19 PM
Pirating an indie game is actuslly toxic, and you should be ashamed if you do so
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Tom 🐝 01-Aug-19 02:19 PM
I literally can't even get the free game from Epic Store because it gets stuck. So how am I supposed to trust them with money???
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Librian 01-Aug-19 02:19 PM
The people who made Hotline Miami made a hotfix for pirated versions of their game
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:19 PM
@Juice I know I just like boomerposting
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EmMyshuno 01-Aug-19 02:20 PM
You guys, I know most people here want to discuss and are passionate about Ooblets, and maybe very hurt, but I also feel like this space has been "invaded" by basic trolls posting weird images. Can something be done about them?
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:20 PM
Nobody "WOULD" care if they took Epic's money. They lied on the steam forums about releasing it onto steam. Then they call us toxic because we don't like being messed with.
cob 01-Aug-19 02:20 PM
please GOTTEM (edited)
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big t 01-Aug-19 02:20 PM
I just wanted to be Bobby Hill (edited)
anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 02:20 PM
see like anne here is clearly a bad actor.
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2e7en 01-Aug-19 02:21 PM
i seriously cannot believe that just last week I was going to the blog to see if a new post was up. Now im filled sadness and rage. Thanks for writing to us like a c unt and lacking self awareness and lacking any knowledge of the situation.
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Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 02:21 PM
Pirating an indie game is actuslly toxic, and you should be ashamed if you do so But....the sales have already been paid for... glarethink
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 02:21 PM
log off
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Raekai 01-Aug-19 02:21 PM
I really do get both sides of the exclusivity deal. The Ooblets team gets a lot of funding. That's great. Creating an indie game as a job is probably very hard to do. At the same time, I'm just bummed that it's not coming to Steam as was indicated. When it comes to Steam or to the Switch, I'll definitely get it. I just feel a little burned after supporting them through Patreon and buying their merchandise. I'm not a big fan of EGS. I think the joke in the blog post is in line with their brand of humor but was a bit in poor taste. But whatever. I still hope things go well for the game and the team. It's a bummer, though, and it makes it hard to give them more support at this time.
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:22 PM
The fact of the matter is that epic isn't available in a good amount of the international market, similar to how hotline miami wasn't available in australia, except that was because of censorship and by no choice of the devs. The rational response when you literally cannot acquire the game in a legal way is to pirate. Piracy is a victimless crime when you literally can't buy the dang game
Tom 🐝 01-Aug-19 02:22 PM
They expected this and they fuelled the fire real well with the "be angry about climate change instead" like you can't be angry about multiple things at once? And then proceeded to call fans "entitled angry toxic gamers" after saying about a open discussion??
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ambientocclusion 01-Aug-19 02:22 PM
@Librian good for them, not everybody wants to spend money to support people who didn't give them any money... Dev work takes time, time is money. They're not working in charity. Stop projecting what other devs have done onto them. @Mr. OVERKILL And yeah piracy is toxic. Your logic doesn't work here.
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:23 PM
Their blog post was uncalled for and actually really condescending towards everyone who has supported them. The fact that they still have the game on being released "soon" on steam is very untasteful. They used steam as a free advertisement market. Why wouldn't we be upset?
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Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 02:23 PM
The key reseller is pissing devs off again.
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:24 PM
@Mr. OVERKILL the ironic thing is buying steam keys on G2A is perfectly legal and no one cares but literally just copying a program and putting it onto your computer without supporting money laundering and rackets is not only a crime but socially stigmatized (edited)
ambientocclusion 01-Aug-19 02:24 PM
@Mr. OVERKILL Wow again with the strange logic. I've seen this before. There have been no indie devs saying piracy isn't toxic, they're saying G2A is more toxic than piracy because G2A keys cost the dev time and money in support cases. Piracy is still toxic but at least they're not demanding support for their pirated product.
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:25 PM
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BiggestNig 01-Aug-19 02:25 PM
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AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 02:25 PM
@Strawberry Pancake have you developed anything before? I fear for the moment that you find out that literally every game you've ever played has had to change course many, many times.
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wil 01-Aug-19 02:26 PM
at this point any good faith actors are long gone and there's really no reason to keep engaging with pancake or mr overkill or anyone still posting. please, value your time you have in life instead of arguing with trolls
Raekai 01-Aug-19 02:26 PM
I'm still a good faith boi. 😤
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ambientocclusion 01-Aug-19 02:26 PM
Yeah that's my last response to them. The logical fallacies here are stunning
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Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 02:27 PM
@ambientocclusion I beg to differ... https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-found-piracy-do-1818629537 Look, I'm no pirate, I own nearly 400 games on PC alone - I'm just merely here to say that your logic isn't perfect and you should have a good think about it. Piracy is not "100% evil/toxic/Trump/whatever). Numerous studies found that it is a better option than not buying the game/movie/music, etc. There's a whole report on it - go read it.
The European Commission paid €360,000 (about $428,000) for a study on how piracy impacts the sales of copyrighted music, books, video games, and movies. But the EU never shared the report—possibly because it determined that there is no evidence that piracy is a major problem.
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:27 PM
You're giving the dumbest excuse in the book to try to defend their mistakes. That's like saying, oh you don't like ice cream? Do you know how to make it? You're not allowed to judge ice cream til you do. @AC3Productions
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:27 PM
"good faith actors" What is with this stupid meme of good and bad faith "Actors?" Are we all just players and the world's a stage?
Tom 🐝 01-Aug-19 02:28 PM
They expected this and they fuelled the fire real well with the "be angry about climate change instead" like you can't be angry about multiple things at once? And then proceeded to call fans "entitled angry toxic gamers" after saying about a open discussion?? Literally no one seems to be able to tell me anything about this? I wonder why? Because he practically threw gasoline on a campfire and didn't expect it to explode?
AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 02:28 PM
No, it's not like that. You're criticising a development decision. When you develop something ever, then I'll feel like your argument here holds any weight. People say that want developers to be transparent, but they aren't ready to accept that things don't go as planned.
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seemaq 01-Aug-19 02:28 PM
you /v/ dudes aren't even trying anymore
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:29 PM
You don't understand why people are mad if that is your response. @AC3Productions
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:29 PM
@perplamps since the cooldown in ooblets is 10 minutes I just want you to know conflating games valve made themselves being exclusive to steam (Which was initially an update distribution platform to ensure everyone could play counter strike) with epic exclusives just makes you look foolish. It's a complete false equivalency
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James 01-Aug-19 02:29 PM
lurk moar
perplamps 01-Aug-19 02:30 PM
@Paragon Deku how is showing that a store launched before having perfect features and pressured people into using it by locking their games behind it not equivalency?
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cob 01-Aug-19 02:30 PM
why are you arguing instead of making a post
Lyssa 01-Aug-19 02:30 PM
I thought you were taking a break
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Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 02:30 PM
@perplamps so you work for epic and are pressuring people to use EGS or...?
stylus 01-Aug-19 02:31 PM
hard money flex
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 02:31 PM
we were paid by epic to allow them to use exclusivity of our game to pressure people into using their store. that's the crux of exclusivity...
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:31 PM
>locking their games behind it Congratulations! You just discovered DRM! Almost like every company has done that for ages and valve has been one of the few to handle it with grace. Steam was needed as an even update platform to make sure everyone playing games like counter strike and team fortress could play with each other.
Kupofasa 01-Aug-19 02:31 PM
Wow I underestimated how toxic this was going to get. Guys this is literally ooblets. Chill. Be wholesome.
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 02:32 PM
i hate 4channers. im so tired
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:32 PM
Ya'll really screwed yourselves with the community, free money or not.
ItsMatt 01-Aug-19 02:32 PM
seconding kupofasa like, i knew this would happen but it's pretty grim all the same
Katie 01-Aug-19 02:32 PM
I'd just remove them honestly, they're not adding anything and only seem to be here to cause intentional upset
𝕿𝖊𝖗𝖗𝖞 𝕯𝖆𝖛𝖎𝖘 01-Aug-19 02:32 PM
Publishers often refer to copying they don't approve of as “piracy.” In this way, they imply that it is ethically equivalent to attacking ships on the high seas, kidnapping and murdering the people on them. Based on such propaganda, they have procured laws in most of the world to forbid copying in most (or sometimes all) circumstances. (They are still pressuring to make these prohibitions more complete.) If you don't believe that copying not approved by the publisher is just like kidnapping and murder, you might prefer not to use the word “piracy” to describe it. Neutral terms such as “unauthorized copying” (or “prohibited copying” for the situation where it is illegal) are available for use instead. Some of us might even prefer to use a positive term such as “sharing information with your neighbor.” A US judge, presiding over a trial for copyright infringement, recognized that “piracy” and “theft” are smear words.
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Tom 🐝 01-Aug-19 02:32 PM
Kupofasa. Perplamps didn't underestimate it. Instead he threw fuel on the fire
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Kupofasa 01-Aug-19 02:33 PM
This. Is. OOBLETS.
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:34 PM
Copying isn't theft. I can post a nifty song about it if you guys are still caught up on that FBI propaganda. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Copying_Is_Not_Theft.webm
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 02:34 PM
I get wanting to ban the 4chan/reddit influx but we're open here and honestly trying to let folks be heard and try to discuss stuff like adults in good faith
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theberlz 01-Aug-19 02:34 PM
good faith/bad faith is not a meme, literally professional industry community managers specialize in discerning out good faith and bad faith discussion in order to encourage sincerity and on-topic discussion. I've seen some pretty valid and actually well-intentioned criticisms of this decision/the blog post on this server so far, but those are an overwhelming minority of what's been posted here. Also, to be totally fair, this is a privately owned Discord server so obviously it's going to be moderated. You can go get your freeze peaches on your own social media accounts or other online spaces, they can moderate however they want here and there is no one universal standard of how to moderate a server/community space (certainly there isn't one that's subject to the first amendment of the US constitution, which way too many people seem to think applies to the internet for some reason instead of its original context)
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AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 02:34 PM
Acquiring goods without compensation is theft.
Zync 01-Aug-19 02:34 PM
@perplamps there is a huge difference between a first party exclusive and a third party exclusive. This is why origin, uplay, etc are tolerated as minor annoyances but the epic games store is across the line for many.
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 02:34 PM
copying can be copyright infringement though
ETPC 01-Aug-19 02:34 PM
the problem is the gamers aren't here in good faith. they are never, ever here in good faith. ever.
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Katie 01-Aug-19 02:34 PM
If you don't want a game, you don't have to buy it, but it doesn't give you the right to harass or leave rude comments to the developers, you are gaining nothing from your behavior
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 02:34 PM
@Zync but intellectually, how is it different?
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:35 PM
They were rude to us first.
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cob 01-Aug-19 02:35 PM
I think saying that people are from 4chan/reddit is weird, I've been here for ages and supported the game, I just wanna play it but I heard EGS sells information and that's scary
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Tom 🐝 01-Aug-19 02:35 PM
Perplamps didn't you literally call angry fans "entitled angry toxic gamers"? Also didn't you try to say be angry at climate change instead? As if you can't be angry at more than 1 thing? You fuelled this and from the looks of it on purpose. What was the plan? To get fans to dislike you?
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 02:35 PM
"They started it!"
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Kupofasa 01-Aug-19 02:36 PM
Like this game's brand is literally just kind of chilling and having fun. If you're going into conniptions over one of multiple platforms it's coming out on then maybe you might want to rethink what you want out of the game?
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seemaq 01-Aug-19 02:36 PM
just ban everyone who joined in the last 6 hours
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pollux 01-Aug-19 02:36 PM
Honest question though: why do people feel used because the game was originally supposed to be on Steam and now it's not? Putting a game up there doesn't mean you're locked into publishing it there 🤔 (not saying I agree with any decisions, I just don't understand this part.)
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:36 PM
FRICK GAMERS AMIRITE? You know, the people who actually buy the product being sold
perplamps 01-Aug-19 02:36 PM
@cob I don't think it's super fair to get angry about rumors...
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ETPC 01-Aug-19 02:36 PM
gamers have never been in good faith about debate since about, oh, let's say 2012
Obby~ 01-Aug-19 02:36 PM
I've been here for years now. I was looking forward to play the game, but I refuse to ever buy something off EGS. I hope it eventually comes out on steam so I can buy it
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MiRIr 01-Aug-19 02:36 PM
I find it hilarious people are so upset over the cutest game ever. Just saying how it is. Also, please don't ban me lol, I'm just chillin'. Not here to upset people.
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KaySuave 01-Aug-19 02:37 PM
@seemaq so I get an email telling me to come here and discuss this and I get banned?
perplamps 01-Aug-19 02:37 PM
@Tom 🐝 what I was saying is that if you're apoplectic about Epic, you really need some perspective in your life
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:37 PM
Tencent movies suck anyway. 😛
ghosttime 01-Aug-19 02:37 PM
Just dropping by to say you have my full support.
Brightside 01-Aug-19 02:37 PM
@perplamps I'm not here super often, but do you have some mods who can look after the server for a bit if you need a break? It's shaping up to be a long and difficult day here. I hope you've got a way to step away when you need to and regroup. Either way, hang in there!
ABCelestial 01-Aug-19 02:37 PM
There's no overexaggeration, this is unbelievably ridiculous with how unaware of themselves a lot of these posts have been.
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 02:37 PM
thanks @ghosttime !
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Raekai 01-Aug-19 02:37 PM
GAMERS RISE UP and buy out Epic Games Store so we can free Ooblets from exclusivity. 😤 Jk. Kind of. Hope this eventually works out better for everyone.
Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 02:38 PM
Acquiring goods without compensation is theft. Depends... I'll share a personal story: My friend bought an Nvidia GPU right when Witcher 3 came out. He got the GOG version - DRM free. He said it's a good game, offered to share (I wasn't familiar with the game based on marketing alone). So I copied it onto my USB3 drive and went on to play it for a bit. It was AWESOME. In fact, so awesome that I went on to buy the game and both expansions when they launched. Plus some merch from our Polish friends. You may say this was piracy... But I'm no i_diot (and, again, the EU research proves this happens all the time) and I paid for an awesome product after having first acquired it for free.
𝕿𝖊𝖗𝖗𝖞 𝕯𝖆𝖛𝖎𝖘 01-Aug-19 02:38 PM
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as piracy, is in fact, unauthorized copying, or as I've recently taken to calling it, unauthorized sharing. Piracy is not the act of obtaining an unauthorized copy of a copyrighted work, but rather robbery or criminal violence at sea. Many computer users make unauthorized copies every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the act which is widely performed today is often called piracy, and many of the people who do it are not aware that it is basically copying, and not stealing. There really is a piracy, and some people are doing it, but it is just robbery at sea. Piracy is an act of theft: an action at sea in which goods are forcefully transferred from one ship to another. Piracy is important to be aware of, but unrelated to unauthorized copying; it can only function at sea. Piracy is normally not used in combination with unauthorized copying: the two acts are basically seperate. All the so-called piracy is really unauthorized copying. @Anne better china than the US government and 14 eyes
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Kupofasa 01-Aug-19 02:38 PM
It's still coming out on XBox One at least? I mean I know that's not a one size fits all since not all have one, but
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:38 PM
@perplamps apoplectic? That's kinda friggin ableist of you to mock internal bleeding for no reason
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Tom 🐝 01-Aug-19 02:38 PM
I doubt that. You fuelled this multiple times. Like what was your plan? You literally did this with the blog and everything
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Katie 01-Aug-19 02:38 PM
we clearly know that not all gamers are toxic, but a rather vocal part of the community can be. If you were dealing with them every single day you'd probably be at the same point of exhaustion. I honestly get anxiety just thinking of taking an exclusive deal with Epic, even if it was the right choice for my game! should game developers fear putting their game on certain platforms because they know they will face harassment if they do?
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cob 01-Aug-19 02:38 PM
Gamers.
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deedles 01-Aug-19 02:38 PM
It’s still coming to Xbox
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theberlz 01-Aug-19 02:38 PM
Ooh, so many choice examples of concerned ess-jay-double-UWU trolling. "maybe if I pretend to be concerned about racism and ableism, they'll feel bad!"
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47Ways 01-Aug-19 02:39 PM
wow
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 02:39 PM
wow indeed
sam suite 01-Aug-19 02:39 PM
autoban all anime avatars imo
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ETPC 01-Aug-19 02:39 PM
i've ran out of gamer bingo cards to fill out at this point, it's just everything you think they are
Scruffo 01-Aug-19 02:40 PM
What is it with a lot of anime avatars anyways? What about anime makes them intensely gross?
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:40 PM
Welp my tamagotchi on comes friday. Thanks.
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Tom 🐝 01-Aug-19 02:40 PM
Well I am out. Perplamps didn't handle this well at all. He just threw fuel on the fire for some reason. Hopefully you all figure something out. Also if we ban all anime avatars then we have to ban all gamers ™ too :(
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:40 PM
@theberlz I'm autistic so yes I'm very concerned about ableism you clown. I love how you assume my intentions because I disagree with you on something. @Scruffo says the FURRY
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Azure 01-Aug-19 02:40 PM
Why are anime avatars so oppressed smh
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cob 01-Aug-19 02:40 PM
ping ping ping i ping
Kupofasa 01-Aug-19 02:40 PM
Well, to the devs that are reading this and possibly getting discouraged.... take heart. We love you guys and believe in what you're doing. This is a classic example of a vocal minority. A lot of people don't LIKE Epic Games Store but you've got a fantastic game and you're doing wonderful work. In the end that will win out. Keep it up, guys.
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austenology 01-Aug-19 02:40 PM
@perplamps I really don't think you mean it this way and I get that you're saying, fundamentally, don't be hyperaggressive in the way you address concerns regarding Epic, but calling people's distaste for Epic inherently toxic, or dismissing the broad span of people saying "hey, I don't like Epic, I have some really strong bad faith sentiments about it" as generally "apopleptic" instead of just ban-hammering the people being directly vicious about it is only going to draw more ire and start to offend people who might've been more civil to begin with. People have short tempers when they feel they've been insulted, which isn't exclusive to "toxic redditors" at all, unfortunately.
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MineTimelapser (Floris) 01-Aug-19 02:40 PM
Are some people just here to fight?
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ABCelestial 01-Aug-19 02:41 PM
Yes.
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 02:41 PM
Seems like a lot of people are angry at an attempt at humour in the newsletter that doesn't quite fit their own sense of humour and are flipping out.
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MiRIr 01-Aug-19 02:41 PM
Let's just think 5 years in the future. Will anyone care about Ooblets's timed exclusivity to EGS? No, no one will care then. This is just a short term frustration for a fraction of the fanbase.
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Some_stranger 01-Aug-19 02:41 PM
Epic Games Store burned our crops, poisoned our water supply, and drove a plague onto our families.
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47Ways 01-Aug-19 02:41 PM
saying that people who have issues with how condescending the announcement post was were not going to buy your game is low. Really low. I've had this game on my wishlist for ages and I have even contributed to the patreon. And yes, I found the post extremely condescending.
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Raekai 01-Aug-19 02:41 PM
I'm still here to keep pushing my respectful and reasonable message. Happy for the dev team yet disappointed that I can't have the game on Steam.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 02:42 PM
@glamblaster, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
sam suite 01-Aug-19 02:42 PM
lotta gamers here missing the toilet by a mile
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 02:42 PM
@glamblaster said: Just chiming in to say I support you guys getting paid; I'm in a real financial *** right now as I work on my novel, if Amazon or some other disgusting company like them offered me cash for exclusivity, I'd take it so I didn't get deported. :p Epic sucks, but so does Steam, so does GOG (with their transphobic and GG tweets). I'd love if indies could get by just publishing on itch.io but I know y'all can't always do so, and me booting up Epic *just to play Ooblets is no more inconvenient than booting up Origin just to play The Sims, which I do a few times a week. I think it'd be good if some of the games running on Epic exclusivity - maybe get in touch with Supergiant, they're cool - could collect their influence and push Epic to add more platform support for non-standard controllers, though. Maybe even see if a bigger studio like Obsidian would join that effort.
Scruffo 01-Aug-19 02:42 PM
Hey quick question, because "condescending" seems to be the latest word gamers discovered. What about it was condescending and be specific Also wow @Paragon Deku is a gigantic jerk (edited)
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:42 PM
@MiRIr yeah no one will care because almost no one will buy the game lmao
June_July 01-Aug-19 02:42 PM
Honestly I get not wanting to ban people to have a discussion but most of the people commenting here dont want to have a discussion and just want to troll so nothing of value would be lost banning them
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austenology 01-Aug-19 02:42 PM
That said I look forward to the day the game comes up on Steam/other services, as I have pretty strong feelings against Epic Games and what has come out about their worker treatment, but I do really love this game and hope I get to play it some time. I hope the money from this will be able to help move development on in ways that will serve the game in the future!
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cob 01-Aug-19 02:43 PM
@cob Can you shut up about joining voicechat for twelve seconds?
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ETPC 01-Aug-19 02:43 PM
it's pretty obvious to see the gamers are here to ruin everything because that is what they do. im surprised i haven't seen them scream slurs yet
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Alzeido 01-Aug-19 02:43 PM
You'd think that the amount of people disliking how it's going to be a EGS exclusive despite everything that the devs have done that they would realise there's something wrong. sure put it on EGS, but DONT make it Exclusive its not about breaking steam's monopoly or whatever. its about devs listening to their community. polarizing or not it's going to lose you alot more players than being on EGS will get you. I love the game, me and my girlfriend are hyped as ** to play it. but making it a EGS exclusive will put us off (and many more i'm sure) due to the hundreds of problems (valid problems) so many have with epic games and their practises. release anywhere but on epic games? we'll probably buy it and play it. Not that being "open to discussion" is a actual thing since the deal's done and everything anyone here says will fall on deaf ears. (edited)
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AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 02:43 PM
@austenology see, that's a reasonable response.
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Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 02:43 PM
@Surfinbird, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Surfinbird said: @Surfinbird dude don't talk **** about @Surfinbird
seemaq 01-Aug-19 02:43 PM
btw, what post did you guys find "condescending"? cause the e-mail i got was ok
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theberlz 01-Aug-19 02:43 PM
@ETPC you missed a few choice memes in the slurs department, lol 😦
MiRIr 01-Aug-19 02:44 PM
I'd personally like to see Ooblets on GOG after the EGS deal is up. I love my games DRM free. I don't know if that's been considered, and it's not the end of the world if it isn't. (edited)
47Ways 01-Aug-19 02:44 PM
"you guys are just made cause you need to install another launcher" and "hey guys you should be fighting climate change" is pretty condescending. People have legitimate issues with the EGS store
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:44 PM
@Scruffo so what you're saying is you can dish it out but you can't take it Also because y'all seem to conflate any gamer with fascism and racism, I just want you to know I think nazi scum can f e c k off
Ompaphty 01-Aug-19 02:44 PM
@Alzeido I completely agree, wether you like epic or not by going exclusive with them you alienate a large portion of your community
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HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 02:44 PM
As much as the 'anti-SJW' bingo has been filled out, the 'anti-anti-SJW' caricatures have been here in equal measure. I don't know what's sadder.
ThePhantomQueers 01-Aug-19 02:44 PM
Well, whatever it is you guys choose to do. Im just here to play the game and enjoy it cause it looks pretty good. As sad as it is to not have it on steam and hearing things about EGS. Do whatever’s better for your team!! I support it
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Katie 01-Aug-19 02:44 PM
what are those legitimate issues though? Epic games have been doing amazing things for developers for years
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 02:44 PM
Uhh, I didn't call you a racist or a fascist @Paragon Deku, I called you a jerk. (Helps that you're a dingus) (edited)
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 02:45 PM
Booting up origin JUST to play the sims is one of the driving factors of why deleted Origin - it was a bit annoying. Not wanting to download another launcher just to play one game isn't an unreasonable criticism.
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Kumi 01-Aug-19 02:45 PM
@SyntheticTeapot it's literally the most first world problem
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AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 02:46 PM
It's unreasonable imo Especially if you can make desktop shortcuts, which the EGS sales do let you do
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Cannongerbil 01-Aug-19 02:46 PM
@Kumi that does not mean it's not a legitimate concern
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Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 02:46 PM
@Azure, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Azure said: You wanna know what's sad? An indie dev knowing his product won't sell as well as he'd like so he decides to take Tennecent money instead all while taking a hot **** on the small community that faithfully followed him.
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@Paragon Deku, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Paragon Deku said: @Scruffo are you belittling my ability to comprehend social queues and insinuations? Because I'm an aspie so yeah that **** is hard for me. But you keep using the word gamer as a boogeyman. I'm not saying you specifically called me those things but they're being thrown around. that was a general statement
20_Bucks 01-Aug-19 02:46 PM
Just remember everyone G2A is always a thing. I refuse to pay these people money but someone that has stolen a key put a lot of work into doing that. I would rather give them money the EPIC.
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AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 02:46 PM
@Katie I think a lot of it is more to do with Tencent who bought out Epic. Now everyone is using those rumours to fuel the fire of other issues and now everything is blowing out of proportion. Heck, Mixer just paid for Ninja and there doesn't seem to be as much turbulence compared to Ooblets xD
Scruffo 01-Aug-19 02:46 PM
Tencent doesn't own Epic though, they don't even have majority share. Plus Tencent invests in Discord too, guess you should get off this platform too (edited)
NightKris art 01-Aug-19 02:46 PM
I hope Mario
Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 02:47 PM
Dont use tencent as a way to discount epic, tencent is invested in discord, the platform we are currently using
Katie 01-Aug-19 02:47 PM
reminder that funding a game is hard and expensive, the cuphead people had to mortgage their house just to fund it (not a decision I would ever advise), if they could guarantee a stress free development cycle, provide jobs to people, keep the lights on and eat, isn't that more important than installing a new launcher? (edited)
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Raekai 01-Aug-19 02:47 PM
I'll say it again. GAMERS RISE UP and we'll buy Epic and EGS to free Ooblets from the shackles of exclusivity while also ending climate change! 🌲😤🌲
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ETPC 01-Aug-19 02:47 PM
this game was never for gamers and that's why its good
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SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 02:47 PM
...it's a criticism. It's not even hostile or rude. It's just a criticism. @Kumi
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Baloo 01-Aug-19 02:47 PM
@Katie nothing to say about the legitimate issues?
Ompaphty 01-Aug-19 02:47 PM
The problem with Epic is that there store is 100x worse from a user perspective then steam and why the heck should we settle for that. Epic could use the money they are throwing at devs to make their store better but they don't cause they don't care about the users. Just money
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CommradeWolfie 01-Aug-19 02:47 PM
@ETPC But you are a gamer though you play games OMEGALUL
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HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 02:48 PM
@CommradeWolfie Imagine thinking that highly of yourself
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:48 PM
Maybe if devs price their games reasonable, nobody would go to G2A.
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 02:48 PM
@Strawberry Pancake oh please
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:48 PM
Reminder that Tencent owns 40% of Epic Games
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Smith 01-Aug-19 02:48 PM
@Ompaphty Users should care about the developers and applaud Epic taking Valve's monopoly out of the equation. More profits for developers is a win for everyone. It's just another launcher to download 😄
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 02:49 PM
@Strawberry Pancake That is intensely naïve. Especially if you spend any time reading about how games get on G2A to begin with.
Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 02:49 PM
@Anne my point is if you dont wanna use epic for privacy concerns involving tencent then dont use discord
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austenology 01-Aug-19 02:49 PM
Epic Games is known to severely overwork their dev team especially for Fortnite, and has done very little in a practical way to curb the problem of 100-hour work weeks. EGS has a habit of pulling games into third-party exclusivity at the last minute, with very little warning to players. And the system is half-baked, which makes it unpleasant to work with as a consumer. Until the system is fixed, it's virtually untouchable. Tencent does have the largest share, and multiple chairs in the board, which doesn't concern me because "ooo scary chinese" but more because tencent's business practices are not known for being in the best faith. There's plenty of reasons people are iffy about Epic, and even if you feel that they're misguided, dismissing them as "first world" isn't a particularly mature way to handle them. No one should be villainized for agreeing or disagreeing with the company, because we're all just people at the end of the day and corporate monstrosities are not something any of us, devs included, have control over. Still, if we're holding a discussion about it, people have the right to express that opinion. Sorry for the longpost btw, I just don't want to be misunderstood and not be able to respond bc timers.
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:50 PM
I've read it. At the end of the day. Nobody cares.
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:50 PM
Having a large portion of the market because of the fact that you provide a quality service and treat developers and consumers fairly while also understanding the needs of multi-platform users isn't having a monopoly. Epic would be welcome competition if they weren't doing such stupid crap and shooting themselves in the foot. Valve also treats their own developers infinitely better than Epic and has done so for more than a decade.
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 02:51 PM
Obvious you don't care @Strawberry Pancake for reasons of cognitive bias, laziness, or purposeful ignorance. All the same really.
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GhostToast 01-Aug-19 02:51 PM
>implying Valve makes games lol
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ETPC 01-Aug-19 02:51 PM
they don't actually care to be proven wrong. it's a complete waste of energy
Cannongerbil 01-Aug-19 02:51 PM
@Katie If that is really why they accepted the deal, then why didn't they simply come forth and say it instead of imitating what Blizzard did at blizzcon in the form of a blog post
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Ompaphty 01-Aug-19 02:51 PM
@Smith yes obviously devs are important but by going with epic they are garunteed to have higher piracy and less sales. Wether you agree with that from a moral standpoint it means that they are making less overall by going with epic. If it was about supporting devs and devs wanting more money they should be going to steam or any other launcher
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 02:52 PM
@Smith, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Smith said: @Paragon Deku I'm not sure the developers selling games on Steam at a loss, because of the revenue split, would agree that Valve gives a **** about developers
Katie 01-Aug-19 02:52 PM
probably because it doesn't need to be mentioned how expensive games are? especially for indies
Boltie 01-Aug-19 02:52 PM
"Gamers this, gamers that"... What matters is that most people (gamers or not), seem to dislike the Epic platform. That on itself is bound to bring discontentment and you have to live with it. Whether that will help the devs or not, only time will tell. (edited)
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:52 PM
People are either gonna spend a couple bucks on G2A or they will pirate it. You can't blame me for telling how it is. boxzGlare
CommradeWolfie 01-Aug-19 02:52 PM
@perplamps You ignored me Perp vonCry
Alzeido 01-Aug-19 02:52 PM
Just a thought, Is this 'move' a form of Outrage marketing? causing outcry amongst your community so that their voices spread outside of your small beloved corner of the internet and bring alot of people to come look and partake in the poor decision. therefore dragging people who don't care into your discord and game, ruining the game and community, but hey its okay you get more money because you can claim that you have a discord of 100,000 people (of which a few hundred will play) and sell later a few years later for the big bucks. yes my numbers are guesses, but my idea is the point.
Jessy 01-Aug-19 02:52 PM
I just wanted to say I'm incredibly disappointed by this news. I'm not a PC gamer but I don't support splitting up communities and I don't support Epic buying all these exclusive deals. People have been on steam for so many years.. why would you want to switch to something you don't like after being told it was coming to steam? I won't be getting the game now.. such a shame CryCake
Zync 01-Aug-19 02:52 PM
I don't understand how people can praise epic for cutting into Valves marketshare. Do you want Valve to start paying developers to be exclusive to steam? Is that the kind of competition you're trying to create?
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cob 01-Aug-19 02:52 PM
nintendo switch
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:52 PM
@Smith give me an example of that happening. Legitimately Also I love how almost anyone can complain about a product and it's valid but the minute people complain about a game (which is a product) it's "ENTITLED GAMERS TIME"
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MiRIr 01-Aug-19 02:53 PM
Fun Fact: Epic wouldn't keep making these exclusive deals if they weren't working. It works, so it'll keep happening. The anti-EGS train doesn't have enough steam to stop it from working. (edited)
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NightKris art 01-Aug-19 02:53 PM
Man, I love Pewdiepie. I hope he plays ooblets when its comes out in 4 years
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20_Bucks 01-Aug-19 02:53 PM
When EPIC is selling your info and you are getting hacked just remember the great deals that G2A can offer you. Just say no to EPIC yes to saving money.
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 02:53 PM
see @Monagana it's stuff like that which makes people assume you're not actually interested in discussion
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ETPC 01-Aug-19 02:54 PM
it's more constructive to view gamers with complete scorn, disgust and derision and i am being completely sincere when i say this. it's all they deserve. history has shown this is the best strategy. deplatforming works (edited)
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HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 02:54 PM
@MiRIr Yes, in the same way that Netflix is 'working' despite heading towards financial ruin while they finance thousands of shows that don't turn a profit
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 02:54 PM
Have fun with Epic leaking all your secure information. Somehow its worse than Uplay. Imagine that, lol. (edited)
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:54 PM
Imagine having this much hatred in your heart over people who play things... for fun... lmao. You're acting as if people who play videogames are the coming of the anti-christ.
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hmaon 01-Aug-19 02:55 PM
what is Epic leaking? where?
Hey Bluejay 01-Aug-19 02:55 PM
BIG oof.
KaySuave 01-Aug-19 02:55 PM
@ETPC you’re the most closed minded guy in this discord. You don’t care to be proved wrong.
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MiRIr 01-Aug-19 02:55 PM
@ETPC is putting out obvious bait and y'all are swallowing the hook.
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big t 01-Aug-19 02:55 PM
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Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 02:55 PM
would you guys rather Ooblets get canned because they couldnt afford to keep making it? Im not trying to belittle actual valid criticism but some of you gotta get a better argument
jennegatron 01-Aug-19 02:55 PM
People love to worship valve. Accounts get hacked and stolen on steam all the time. Maybe real competition will force valve to make their store good instead of a graveyard of half implemented features and a garbage marketplace.
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Oyashiro 01-Aug-19 02:56 PM
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Smith 01-Aug-19 02:56 PM
On the plus side, think of all the free marketing the games getting. No such thing as bad press 😄
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Ryuko 01-Aug-19 02:56 PM
Im not mad about the epic thing, bc i know they need money. Its the way they worded their post and their comments here that rub me the wrong way. I'll wait until it comes out on something other than EGS.
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Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 02:57 PM
@anosmicanimator, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
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@anosmicanimator said: yeah can you guys imagine if valve had a well documented history of ** work practices? obviously people would drop them immediately!
@Unhappy, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
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@Unhappy said: @perplamps im sorry for the ping on this one, but, man, i've been following the dev on this game for, not as long as others im sure, but long enough that i got geniunly excited by how happy and soul filled the game looked, and now that it's releasing on egs, it's like all the soul of the game is just gone, cause it's being released with exclusivity to a soulless company, that cares nothing about the employees, the consumers, or ****, the people they partner with, since, im sure the epic sale will come around again and they'll force the game down to 5 dollars without even contacting the devs/publishers, like they did last time, the company exists to exploit money from people, it's a soul filled game coming to a soulless platform, and that sucks
pumpkinking 01-Aug-19 02:57 PM
no offence but if your account gets stolen on steam it's likely bc you have clicked a link, have a virus, or fell for a phishing scam lol
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NightKris art 01-Aug-19 02:57 PM
My mom alsways called me epic. so The epic store is like a brother to me. I love ooblets and I love pewdipie
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Azure 01-Aug-19 02:57 PM
Based edgeworth
cob 01-Aug-19 02:57 PM
OBJECTION!, Phoenix, Wright, Ace, Attorney, Justice, All, Trials, and, Tribulations, Gyakuten, Saiban, One, Two, Three, Four, Kenji, Investigations, Mia, Fey, Winston, Payne, Paynette, Klavier, Kristoph, Gavin, Godot, Diego, Armando, Franziska, Manfred, von, Karma, Miles, Edgeworth, Judge, Udgey, Damon, Gant, Godot (Phoenix Wright), Credits, Opening, Ending, Phoenix Wright Music Cornered
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47Ways 01-Aug-19 02:58 PM
the developer has lost 50 patreon supporters since the announcement. How can the devs claim anybody who thinks this announcement is condescending wouldn't buy the game when people that were literally supporting the development financially are pulling out?
seemaq 01-Aug-19 02:58 PM
@Chico maloliente I'd rather play it on steam in two years than on egs tomorrow
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Jessy 01-Aug-19 02:58 PM
I'm just gonna throw this out there.. maybe it's dumb of me to say but why not ask your community how they feel about possibly accepting a deal with Epic in order to better the game? I feel like people would of been more accepting if there was a discussion about it before just taking the deal.
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MiRIr 01-Aug-19 02:58 PM
Is there proof Epic's security sucks? It's always hearsay.
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Kumi 01-Aug-19 02:58 PM
50 patrons = $50 - $500. That's literally nothing
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Alzeido 01-Aug-19 02:59 PM
When Epic Games makes a game you look forward to playing a epic Games Exclusive.
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HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 02:59 PM
The Patreon is suffering from, what I like to call, the ProJared Effect.
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AlphaE 01-Aug-19 02:59 PM
so losing $2500-$25000
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 02:59 PM
@Jessy baffling to me no developer has even though to do this. They should be asking if they could feasibly get the money through the fans instead
Wasa 01-Aug-19 02:59 PM
@Alzeido nothing wrong if the game is developed by Epic
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Darge 01-Aug-19 02:59 PM
Guys, I dont care about this game, but I just waited 10 minutes to say that I support you.
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Smith 01-Aug-19 02:59 PM
@ColonelBB I think that's a little unfair. When you have a tiny team of people giving everything creatively to bring a vision to life, to say they don't care is harsh 😄
Katie 01-Aug-19 03:00 PM
Gonna pledge to them right now
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jennegatron 01-Aug-19 03:00 PM
Man, can you imagine the entitlement to think that you should be able to weigh in on whether or not indie game developers should be able to sign deals for money????
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cob 01-Aug-19 03:00 PM
Can I get a refund to cancel out the pledge? I'm kidding
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what 2
what 2
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 03:00 PM
Gamers are the most entitled babies, this is true
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CommradeWolfie 01-Aug-19 03:00 PM
People forget that epic accounts get stolen way more often
Kumi 01-Aug-19 03:01 PM
If you're a patron i think you can complain a little
20_Bucks 01-Aug-19 03:01 PM
@Kumi that's only if its 10 bucks per person. They have blocked the amount so you have no idea what they are actually making.
Alzeido 01-Aug-19 03:01 PM
@Wasa i said making things Exclusive. Countdown to ooblets skins in fortnite. i've always wanted to pick up a legsy by the ankles and bash it into a wall to get some materials in fortnite
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 03:01 PM
LOL
Oyashiro 01-Aug-19 03:01 PM
egs always seem to attract a certain type of developer
big t 01-Aug-19 03:01 PM
@Scruffo WRONG, gamers are the most oppressed people and I'm sick and tired of the mistreatment of us gamers by the media and by the games industry as a whole 😡 😡 😡
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47Ways 01-Aug-19 03:01 PM
@Kumi im not sure why the amount of money matters. The point is that the dev saying people who find the announcement condescending were never going to buy the game. But this is patently false. People who were contributing to the patreon were obviously going to buy the game.
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 03:01 PM
@Scruffo complaining about a product you're expected to pay for isn't entitled. It's called being a consumer and not a boot licker
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Raekai 01-Aug-19 03:01 PM
What about the people who've been supporting them on Patreon and through buying merchandise for a while now? Those people aren't allowed to be a bit bummed that the game that they financially supported is on a platform that they don't support?
Darge 01-Aug-19 03:02 PM
It's brave to want something new, something different. It's better if there are multiple players competing against each other. Competition is good for the customer.
NightKris art 01-Aug-19 03:02 PM
I'm a gamer And I love ooblets
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Surfinbird 01-Aug-19 03:02 PM
i'm a ooblet and i love gamers
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cob 01-Aug-19 03:02 PM
I'm a gamer And I love ooblets (edited)
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Cannongerbil 01-Aug-19 03:02 PM
@Kumi 50 out of a little over a thousand isn't small
Honeyxilia 01-Aug-19 03:02 PM
I ooblets am and gamer a I
anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 03:02 PM
I'm a gamer and i love ooblets and hate gamers
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Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 03:03 PM
I hate this view that fans arent allowed to have a reaction to what a dev does, the game wouldnt be a thing if the fans didnt see something in it that they truly loved. Game devs dont get enough credit and making a game is very hard and getting funding that is sustainable is incredibly difficult but the fans are part of what make the game as popular as it is and their opinion on the game and how its handled does matter so some extent. this "they dont owe you anything" view is stupid when you consider fans were literally giving them money. sure it may have not been a lot but its a lot more than zero
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Zync 01-Aug-19 03:03 PM
Remember, it's perfectly alright to boycott major retailers because of how they treat their employees, or a fast food chain because of how they treat their livestock But if you boycott a game company based on how they treat their employees and customers, you're the most entitled ever.
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HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 03:03 PM
I'm anti-gamer and I love Stalin
josefinx 01-Aug-19 03:03 PM
The thing is I understand both sides, Ooblet devs and fans who feel NOT good
big t 01-Aug-19 03:03 PM
I came and I love gamers
20_Bucks 01-Aug-19 03:03 PM
What it really boils down to is these things are not free. If some of the people that play games come of as entitled that's there right.
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 03:03 PM
I'm the concept of gravity and you'll never completely understand me
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Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 03:04 PM
@Smith, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
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@Smith said: Think of all the console gamers laughing at us right now. They've been dealing with exclusives for years, the odd moan here and there but that's it, and they have to buy an entirely different console. We get 1 store try to take a slice of the pie and all **** breaks loose 😄
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 03:04 PM
Imagine supporting a company that has performed human rights violations just to dab on gamers. Lmao bootlickers
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cob 01-Aug-19 03:04 PM
I'm Ooblets - Announcement Trailer and I love Gamers
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Honeyxilia 01-Aug-19 03:04 PM
@Cbajd5 two masses attracting each other, some more than other due to weigh, bye
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Cannongerbil 01-Aug-19 03:04 PM
@anosmicanimator self loathing isn't healthy my friend
Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 03:05 PM
@Smith Actually... the fact that we DO cook up a storm when exclusivity BS happens is why we don't have it...well, we do now, because Swiney's billions speak louder to devs. But we tried.
Kumalia 01-Aug-19 03:05 PM
What yall dont seem to realize is that making games is extremely expensive. They're a super small studio of only two people and they need a way to not only fund the equipment for the game, but to also pay for housing and food. They're not responsible for the "crimes" of the EGS, they're just doing what they can to survive and make the game good for us as consumers
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barret 01-Aug-19 03:05 PM
I'm an indie game developer who lives in North Carolina literally minutes away from Epic games and knows people who work there and knows people who work on small teams like ooblets team I have love for people doing what they love and being able to support them whether by word of mouth, testing, or financially. I'm here to support whatever way I can
MiRIr 01-Aug-19 03:05 PM
Does Steam have a good track record about the work-life balance of their employees? Will anyone bother to check?
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 03:05 PM
Animal Crossing March 2020
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big t 01-Aug-19 03:05 PM
3/20/2020
pumpkinking 01-Aug-19 03:06 PM
steam is a platform that doesn't develop games any longer. Valve is the company that developed games
Kumi 01-Aug-19 03:06 PM
Valve doesn't make anything so their employees are doing great
Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 03:06 PM
the fact is there is no right way to announce an epic exclusive but there certainly is a right way to address the concern after an exclusivity announcement.
Smith 01-Aug-19 03:06 PM
@Paragon Deku Crunch is part of nearly every creatively driven industry. Music, movies, games. People push the hours week after week, not always because they have to, but because they want to.
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cob 01-Aug-19 03:07 PM
TLYER "please give me money" MCVICKER
47Ways 01-Aug-19 03:07 PM
@Kumalia they have over 1000 people supporting them monthly and they were published by Double Fine until they willing got out of that publishing deal by themselves. I don't think they have many money troubles
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seemaq 01-Aug-19 03:07 PM
why do you act like egs is the only place to sell your game other than steam
CobalTech 01-Aug-19 03:07 PM
Why is this happening? I really wanted Ooblets to succeed. It looked like the perfect game and I love everything about it. I don't want this controversy to ruin the success of an otherwise perfect game.
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Monochrome Baku 01-Aug-19 03:07 PM
@MiRIr Valve employees are notoriously well treated. But Anne is right in saying that they literally don't do anything because there's almost no direction there
fiveoutofkevin 01-Aug-19 03:07 PM
Double Fine was bought by Microsoft
MiRIr 01-Aug-19 03:07 PM
Thank you all who responded to my question. Also lol @Monochrome Baku, yeah I'm not sure what all there is to do besides upkeep primarily. (edited)
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 03:07 PM
Valve discusses their fantastic snack bar.
anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 03:08 PM
@Smith the "dream job" argument is garbage used to excuse exploiting creatives. any work, no matter how cool or glamorous it is, is still work. people deserve to have good working conditions
NightKris art 01-Aug-19 03:08 PM
To be honest I can';t play a game that doesnt represent my sexuality and I hate ooblets if you can't be pansexual
Mr. OVERKILL 01-Aug-19 03:08 PM
why do you act like egs is the only place to sell your game other than steam because selling on Steam means competition. Selling on EGS means you get money even if you make 0 sales.
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Kumalia 01-Aug-19 03:08 PM
@47Ways do you think... double fine just gave them free money and then let them go... also this reappy does prove that you DONT know how much it costs
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 03:08 PM
Yeah lets doo-doo on the Valve employees that maintain and develop tons of features while apologizing for the Epic Games Store employees that can't build a functional shopping cart within a year.
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cob 01-Aug-19 03:09 PM
why are we talkign about valve can we talk about ooblets again please PepeClown
47Ways 01-Aug-19 03:09 PM
Valve has made Artifact, Dota Underlords and are releasing Half Life VR this year. Valley of the Gods is either this year or 2020. Not to mention they actively develop content for three existent games. This narrative that Valve doesn't make games is insane. Especially if you're trying to compare them with Epic, which killed both Unreal Tournament and Paragon when Fortnite got popular.
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Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 03:09 PM
at this point its probably a better idea for the devs to let this blow over then address this again (edited)
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 03:10 PM
They did Paragon dirty for no reason ):
Smith 01-Aug-19 03:10 PM
@anosmicanimator Nothing about a dream job. You don't get into a creative role without the desire to create, to innovate. People work more hours than them in factories for 10% of the pay, complain about that 😄 I'm not saying companies don't abuse that but they don't have people walking around the office whipping folks at desks and forcing them to do one more hour
CobalTech 01-Aug-19 03:10 PM
Tbh, ooblets on the wii would be siiiiick
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 03:10 PM
Have you seen how much the patreon pulls in? That's not enough to support two people indefinitely. Not even one. Game dev is a job that doesn't pay you anything until you make sales. To say they have a lot of money, any indie dev in fact, doesn't make sense. Publishers help make up the gap in pay, but that's almost never enough to live on alone. And certainly not enough to cover the time they spend on it. They aren't working 40 hour weeks here. It's their whole life dedicated to this game.
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big t 01-Aug-19 03:10 PM
they dont show how much it pulls in @TucanSam (edited)
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pumpkinking 01-Aug-19 03:10 PM
Other than the blog post, I think the only thing that rubs me the wrong way about it is that there was no discussion beforehand. As developers you're allowed to do with your game as you please, but you'd think that you would have run it by some people or the community first to see if there are other options. You had to know the general distate for egs before making the decision, and wouldn't that effect your decision? Were there any other options available for you before making that choice? Again, it makes complete sense if this truly was the only option, but I don't believe it is, and I can see why many people are upset because of it.
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seemaq 01-Aug-19 03:11 PM
yeah, remember that great game Artifact
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Pi 01-Aug-19 03:11 PM
I have read through a fair amount of this chat, much to my discontent. There are a few points that are not accurate by any means about the Epic Game Store: 1. "Epic Overworks its Developers/Employees" - What most of you seem to miss is that the majority of game studios have crunch time. You won't find many larger studios (similar or greater than Epic Games in employee count) that do not have "crunch times" where a work week consists of 60+ (upwards to 110-120) hours a week. This is a fact. Indie development teams often are working at their own rate (especially when there is fewer than 15-20 devs on a game) and will often over work themselves to try to keep up with their designated timelines (either committed to their community or their "self driven" timeline). Focusing on Epic employees having crunch times seems to be ignorant of how the consumers literally push studios to overwork their employees by having the attention span of a fish on steroids. The business end looks at the market, determines a timeline, sets a release date - all based on interest and engagement from things like surveys, streams/videos about the upcoming game, and social media engagement. It's a norm in the gaming industry - you can't fault a company for doing it without first looking at the "why" they do it. 2. "Tencent owns the majority of Epic Games" - This is false. They legally only own 40% of Epic Games and Sweeney owns over 51%. The "Over 40%" statement comes from the fact that Tencent purchased 48.4% of outstanding shares in Epic Games - which equates to 40% of the capital (which is the important aspect here). Making the statement that they're owned, in the majority, by Tencent is just not understanding how shares and ownership works in regard to corporate companies like Epic Games. As others have said, if you're worried about Tencent - delete your Discord account as Tencent has invested into Discord and owns more shares (percentage wise) in Discord than in Epic Games.
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47Ways 01-Aug-19 03:11 PM
@Kumalia the entire point is that they wouldn't have pulled out of the Double Fine deal if they didn't have the money to pull out of the deal. Simple as that.
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Smith 01-Aug-19 03:12 PM
@TucanSam I know a few devs that would consider a 40 hour week a holiday 😄
perplamps 01-Aug-19 03:12 PM
just wanted to chime in to say we've got to head out for a little bit but try to keep things civil
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gramp 01-Aug-19 03:12 PM
:/
Raekai 01-Aug-19 03:12 PM
Can we all just kiss and make up? Please? Please...? 💋
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Zync 01-Aug-19 03:12 PM
Crunch is an enitrly avoidable problem that can be eliminated by properly allocating resources, not setting dates too soon, monitoring progress and setbacks, and bringing on more staff as needed. Many developers don't do this and work their employees 80 hours in the months up to launch because it's cheaper, requires less planning, and they don't care about their employees only the bottom line. Anyone who defends crunch doesn't have the employees interests at heart.
cob 01-Aug-19 03:12 PM
Civic?
perplamps 01-Aug-19 03:12 PM
feel free to email me if you want to discuss stuff a bit later
Hey Bluejay 01-Aug-19 03:13 PM
@TucanSam you realize that is the number of patreons, not the amount right? Some of those people are paying 5+ dollars.. so, let's take that number and multiply it by a made up average of let's say.. 3. We get $3,417 🤔
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 03:13 PM
@Pi The fact that crunch time is a thing incredibly sucks, and I hope that EG stops that alongside with every other developer that does it. Support those who don't have crunch. Also after banning every ding dong, this place is so much nicer
Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 03:13 PM
will I be seeing any of you at the "mad at climate change" meeting tonight?
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TucanSam 01-Aug-19 03:13 PM
Hmm they used to show it I think. But if you exaggerate and say that they have every single patron at 100$ a month (definitely not true) that's 100k a year to work what.. 70+ hours a week? Take into account that almost all patrons will be at 1$ and it's easy to see how "they have a ton of money" is ridiculous
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austenology 01-Aug-19 03:14 PM
Okay Epic Games has been running crunch time for literally over a year and the fact that people get fired for refusing to "volunteer" work 100 hour work weeks when that is LITERALLY against the law is insane. Just because a bunch of triple A companies do that DOES NOT make it okay. Literally what unionization was all about 100 years ago, people didn't die in steel mills for this to be normalized.
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Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 03:14 PM
The crazy part is while they made money. They ruined their reputation for any future games. boxzDab
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 03:14 PM
@Hey Bluejay it's so hard to gauge what's being paid based off of just patrons and we have no idea how much the developers are truly working on the game so it's all speculation until they make the amount transparent. I think they probably definitely needed more money but there were better ways to get it
Pi 01-Aug-19 03:14 PM
3. "Exclusives are anti-consumer!" - Valve has been partaking in exclusives for the last 5-7 years with AAA developers, except they call it "contractual obligations" over there. To this point, Valve forces publishers and developers to launch onto their platform or they encounter fines or deprioritization in marketing. For smaller developers - Valve/Steam is still a viable option. However, due to how the system is designed, there is next to no certainty that they'll succeed on the Steam platform. It isn't uncommon for a new game to be buried under the multiple "pointless" games that Valve allows on their platform because they don't concern themselves with what's released on their platform. So before you get your panties in a bundle about exclusives, you should really take a look at what Valve does behind the scenes with larger developers and figure out why they're buying out their contract with Valve and signing exclusives with Epic Games (and it's not just the guarantees or profit split). (And yes, I know there are some responses to my first post and I'll get to that).
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The Sin Cave ™ 01-Aug-19 03:15 PM
Crunch time bring normal doesn't make it okay or even legal
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CobalTech 01-Aug-19 03:15 PM
I'm honestly so torn regarding all of this. I see and agree with points from both sides
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 03:15 PM
@austenology Yeah, there have been tons of news stories that have come out about how terrible Epic Games work culture is. That it's not a problem exclusive to them does NOT excuse it or excuse not wanting to support them.
Kuranghi 01-Aug-19 03:15 PM
We can see you hiding in the bushes, guys
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cob 01-Aug-19 03:15 PM
devs & admins are still online (edited)
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Hey Bluejay 01-Aug-19 03:15 PM
@TucanSam right, now I definitely didn't say they make a ton of money, so I agree with you there.
Surfinbird 01-Aug-19 03:15 PM
camo 0%
47Ways 01-Aug-19 03:15 PM
why would they work 70 hours a week? They are their own bosses and people were not going to pull out of supporting them on patreon. So they could just set a appropriate pace of development instead, cause people would always be supporting them monthly.
Librian 01-Aug-19 03:16 PM
@Pi All I see is "BUH VALVE DOES IT TOO!" Like this somehow fixes all the stuff Epic does
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Kumalia 01-Aug-19 03:16 PM
@47Ways no it's obviously not as simple as that. They were probably able to pull out of the deal because of help from epic games
big t 01-Aug-19 03:16 PM
all these 🤡 hiding
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 03:16 PM
hollow knight was another 2 person game that managed to get published off of kickstarter funds
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TucanSam 01-Aug-19 03:17 PM
That's not how indie dev works. You get paid when you release. You have to work as hard as you can to release the game so you can make money to live. They make less than a part timer off their patreon, which is their most stable income before egs
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Faodail 01-Aug-19 03:17 PM
@Paragon Deku Supermeat boy too im sure
cob 01-Aug-19 03:17 PM
i am not hiding flushedclown clown gang rise up
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austenology 01-Aug-19 03:18 PM
My point isn't "oh woe is me the developers are going to commit labor crimes now." I know you guys are a) your own bosses and b) ethical human beings. The money talk at the end of the day means nothing to me - they took the deal, they made a financial decision. I just think it's also the right of fans to make their own financial decision regarding whether or not they want to let Epic Games take that 14% cut of my money when I hand it over to Ooblets for a very lovely game.
MiRIr 01-Aug-19 03:18 PM
🤡 Give me all the clowns you got 🤡
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CobalTech 01-Aug-19 03:18 PM
🦀🆑🆎🦀
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 03:18 PM
cracks open Monster energy drink.. sips Ahh... I remember back in 2004 when Valve took Half-Life 2 away from other digital stores (that definitely existed)
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47Ways 01-Aug-19 03:18 PM
@Pi i'm sorry but this is an outright lie. No, Valve doesn't fine you for not launching on their platform (how would that even work), and Valve doesn't sell marketing on their storefront at all. For example, the banners you see on the store from time to time? Those were completely free, they are there because the game is popular.
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Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 03:18 PM
I just wanna say that If you are mad at this choice you dont speak for those who arent and how you feel isnt the more correct way to feel
Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 03:19 PM
@HolyDragSwd yeee-up. Half life 2. That was a good game sips monster white
MoltenSlowa 01-Aug-19 03:19 PM
STEAK
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Kumalia 01-Aug-19 03:20 PM
@Paragon Deku#3877 but did they do a kickstarter?
seemaq 01-Aug-19 03:20 PM
Toby Fox made Undertale by himself
ILarissaL 01-Aug-19 03:20 PM
just here to say i didn't know about all these problems epic had before the blog post, so, in a way, it was a good thing. I am worried about security issues and such, and also bummed because steam has regional pricing, (i'm not from the us) so things don't get crazily expensive there. but i'm glad you guys got the money you needed, and i'll buy the game anyway, cause i've loved it since forever. if it eventually comes out on steam/switch even better. @perplamps @nonplayercat
cob 01-Aug-19 03:20 PM
UNDERTALE
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Kyrio 01-Aug-19 03:20 PM
Undertale had a few guest artists
poopflowers 01-Aug-19 03:21 PM
I read the email about the announcement and it was all about keeping an open dialogue and sharing opinions and the blog post was more like... this was our decision and if you disagree you’re wrong. I’m fine with the exclusivity but I prefer the way the email was written to the blog post
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fdruid 01-Aug-19 03:21 PM
So, I'm here to learn whether the Epic exclusive will be lifted after some time.
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 03:21 PM
I said Stardew Valley earlier, but they went BUT HIS GF SUPPORTED HIM BLAH BLAH.
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Paragon Deku 01-Aug-19 03:21 PM
@Anne I get you're memeing but unless you just want flame-y responses from SEETHING people you might wanna stop. Unless that's your intention then carry on i guess lmao
big t 01-Aug-19 03:21 PM
guys don't let this distract you from the fact that psyonix took a deal with epic to remove their game from steam and put it on egs
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sam suite 01-Aug-19 03:21 PM
@Strawberry Pancake thats literally true though
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soso 01-Aug-19 03:22 PM
Dang, I was looking forward to playing this on steam. The tone of the post made me sad and a little defensive. Less likely to pick it up now, not out of spite, but out of not wanting to sign up for yet another marketplace. Steam is my main game library, and a marketplace has to have lots of games I'm interested in to get me to sign up. Epic isn't there yet.
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Pi 01-Aug-19 03:22 PM
When it comes to crunch time, I agree that there aren't excuses and there are ways to circumvent having crunch. However, game studios are a different beast altogether. Epic Games has been trying to curb as much crunch as possible in-house. The entire studio shut down for two weeks (other than mandatory resources) to give the entire staff some time to relax and "disconnect." Just because others do it doesn't make it okay, but both consumers and companies need to work together to curb crunch periods in development. @47Ways: You misunderstood what I had said entirely and knee-jerked. Valve enforces contracts with AAA publishers and give marketing prioritization as a whole. Yes, the storefront banners are free but there's more to marketing than just storefront banners. Contracts are just nicer, less-publicly facing "exclusives"
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 03:22 PM
important question: when you say epic gave you some cash money upfront was it actually physical cash money or boring cash money via a check or bank transfer
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 03:23 PM
based on standard industry practices i would assume it was a big sack of cash with a dollar sign on it
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Alex2life 01-Aug-19 03:23 PM
Smells like angry Gamers™ in here
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josefinx 01-Aug-19 03:23 PM
The very core problem is that devs don't or are not allowed to address situation with a clear, simple and transparent manner - we could avoid ALL of this 😃 (edited)
fdruid 01-Aug-19 03:24 PM
@ILarissaL Epic not having regional pricing is a big thing for me. Probably would be the biggest reason against buying into them, even if I didn't hate them.
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47Ways 01-Aug-19 03:24 PM
i'm curious about what you mean, because every consumer-facing "marketing" on the Steam client is free
big t 01-Aug-19 03:24 PM
smells like a bunch of clowns in here
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seemaq 01-Aug-19 03:24 PM
@Alex2life where did your profile pic go
NightKris art 01-Aug-19 03:24 PM
soso 01-Aug-19 03:24 PM
Best of luck, though, @perplamps . I'll pick it up somewhere down the line, just probably not when it drops.
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cob 01-Aug-19 03:25 PM
i wanna be star belly wtf ive been here ages
Alex2life 01-Aug-19 03:25 PM
Lol - Im a boomer? Im not the one complaining about a game coming to another platform thats free to use :P
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Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 03:25 PM
important question: what the heck is star belly
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AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 03:26 PM
Super cool title? dtdemonPOG
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 03:26 PM
To say this could have all been avoided is a little naïve. This is the internet.
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jennegatron 01-Aug-19 03:26 PM
It's v funny that people think this will "ruin their reputation"
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big t 01-Aug-19 03:26 PM
@Cbajd5 star belly is the 🤡 role
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Librian 01-Aug-19 03:26 PM
@TucanSam It could have easily been avoided, you just don't wanna be wrong
barret 01-Aug-19 03:26 PM
I'm a millennial and I am not complaining one bit. actually super happy for the team. I know what the stress of financials can be
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ILarissaL 01-Aug-19 03:27 PM
@fdruid where are you from and what are you going to do? are you going to wait for a steam release?
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Alex2life 01-Aug-19 03:27 PM
Honestly glad they wrote the post the way they did. Weeds out the toxic Gamers™ in a fast way :D
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GWsetmyxPeepoEvil 1
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 03:28 PM
@jennegatron I don't think that's the case so much as this is going to be a lot of people's first impression of the team. And that kinda sucks.
cob 01-Aug-19 03:28 PM
Someone say weed?
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PGLOS 01-Aug-19 03:28 PM
Hi, I just read the article/news thingy about ooblets becoming an EGS exclusive. I feel very strongly about it and would like to share.
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MayorChuy 01-Aug-19 03:28 PM
I mean, but who isn't just gonna get Ooblets on Switch as soon as it's there?
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seemaq 01-Aug-19 03:28 PM
@Alex2life 😄
Scruffo 01-Aug-19 03:28 PM
Basically half the messages here are a number followed by Blocked Messages. Though it seems I need to be a bit more liberal with those blocks still.
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Librian 01-Aug-19 03:28 PM
People waiting for steam release be like
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TucanSam 01-Aug-19 03:29 PM
Anger over EGS would have arrived regardless of how the message was delivered and received. The internet loves to hate. Anger would have existed no matter what.
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Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 03:29 PM
that's true
NightKris art 01-Aug-19 03:29 PM
fishbones 01-Aug-19 03:29 PM
I mean, the straw grasping would look different, I'm sure
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deedles 01-Aug-19 03:29 PM
You know what wouldn’t have existed no matter what? Cowgub
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cob 01-Aug-19 03:30 PM
how come he can post fast and i cant
Azure 01-Aug-19 03:30 PM
Ok I'll just say my piece and then go. All of you Epic apologists are either one of two things: Masochists or straight up shills. You've been a part of this community for a long time and have been promised steam a release. But now the dev not only turned his back on you he did it while condescendingly looking down on you lot as entitled man babies for the crime of expecting him to not go back on his word like that. It has nothing to do with the scary Chinamen in this case (Although tennecent ARE indeed shady as heck and Epic's practices are downright predatory) it has to do with the dev himself screwing over his backers for short term revenue. Tennecent's BS is just the cherry on top of the main issue. The dev's attitude towards you. If you're smart you'll support a dev that actually gives a crap about what his audience thinks.
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PGLOS 01-Aug-19 03:30 PM
I never heard of this game prior to the article and I am now 100% going to buy it. Good for you devs. I'm glad you're able to support yourself without the stress of wondering if you'll sell enough. Well worded article, good job throwing toxic gamers under the bus. Can't wait for the release ♥
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gramp 01-Aug-19 03:30 PM
clown the star bellys
Alex2life 01-Aug-19 03:30 PM
@TucanSam and 90% of the complaints about EGS could be said about Steam too...
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Lyssa 01-Aug-19 03:30 PM
@everyone
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TucanSam 01-Aug-19 03:31 PM
To say that perp and NPC don't care about the community means you don't know them.
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fdruid 01-Aug-19 03:31 PM
@ILarissaL Argentina, and yeah, I have a whole lot of other games to play, so my interest for this game can wait for years, to be honest. I certainly am not so much interested in it to pay around four times the price it would have in my currency in Steam, and to get into EGS.
big t 01-Aug-19 03:32 PM
@TucanSam I doubt you know them, too. you just give them extra money for a discord clown role
deedles 01-Aug-19 03:32 PM
I’m no EGS apologist, I just want what’s best for Rebecca and Ben so they don’t have to trash this wonderful game because of insufficient funding and a lack of working hands
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Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 03:32 PM
@Monagana, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
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@Monagana said: they treat you like **** but ok. let them trample over you while you lick their Epic boots
Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 03:32 PM
OKAY ILL BE THE FIRST TO SAY IT, RELEASING YOUR GAME ANYWHERE IS A BAD DUMB IDEA AND IS ALWAYS ANTI CONSUMER. NEVER RELEASE YOUR GAME ANYWHERE
cob 01-Aug-19 03:32 PM
^^^^^^^^^
Librian 01-Aug-19 03:32 PM
I'm no EGS apologist 🤡
austenology 01-Aug-19 03:32 PM
True Sam, but at least a portion of the ire clearly could have, given just how many people came in with a "first off, the blog post-." Also putting the discord in the post was, imo, a bad idea. Let them work to find the discord if they wanna get flamey so bad. I think most people who had reasonable concerns they felt like voicing would have gone to the trouble of looking for it anyways, where some of the flamers might have just shut it all out and gone and keyboard smashed on reddit or something
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Vajra 01-Aug-19 03:34 PM
is Ooblets going to be epic exclusive? I will not support their platform and unfortunately will not be picking it up until it's on steam, since i don't trust EG
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fdruid 01-Aug-19 03:34 PM
Also, IMHO I didn't care for the defensive tone in the announcement post. If you're going a certain way for business reasons, own it. Half apologizing and being sarcastic is not a good business stance.
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Ftothekman 01-Aug-19 03:34 PM
They weren't?
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 03:34 PM
@Vajra It's a timed exclusive. it'll be up on steam eventually
cob 01-Aug-19 03:34 PM
not funny, didn't laugh
Librian 01-Aug-19 03:35 PM
@anosmicanimator In three years
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 03:35 PM
@Unhappy, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Unhappy said: hey in 2 minutes im gonna * die is everyone ready for that?
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NightKris art 01-Aug-19 03:35 PM
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 03:35 PM
Given that the post was put on Reddit, the trolls would have arrived by searching for the discord. Also, the newsletter was in jest. That's their sense of humor. It sucks that people took it the wrong way, but they never meant to harm or offend anyone. That's not who they are. Also, I don't pay for Starbelly. It's given out to people freely. I guess I pay for the supporter role, but it's 1$ so why not? you're right in that I don't know Ben and Rebecca personally, but I've talked and been around them in this discord enough to understand how they think about the game and their community.
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47Ways 01-Aug-19 03:35 PM
They were. Extremely so. The fact that they went further condescending by saying people who disliked the announcement weren't going to buy the game is very disappointing and I'm a patreon backer.
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KaySuave 01-Aug-19 03:35 PM
@anosmicanimator F2P “Ooblets 2: here comes the micro transactions” will be out by the time the first one makes it to steam. (edited)
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bee 01-Aug-19 03:35 PM
@Monagana uh you not backing down isn’t gonna stop that’s it on the egs lmao
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 03:36 PM
People take being silly as the most insulting thing. Which is astonishing because I've seen at least half a dozen racist posts from the angry gamers.
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Vajra 01-Aug-19 03:36 PM
@Anne the heck you say, I don't support platforms like that because they're super sketchy and not good overall
deedles 01-Aug-19 03:36 PM
I had never heard of the epic store before today other than the fact that it ran fortnite, and I have done some research on epic and it sucks that there’s some shady stuff going down, but I’m not in a steam party or EGS party, just an ooblets party. I want the game to be as good as it can be
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fdruid 01-Aug-19 03:36 PM
Also, honestly guys, the game looked interesting but I shouldn't waste time talking about a game Im not going to play in the foreseeable time. So I'm out. Good luck to the devs, hope their choices don't blow on their face, and everyone can enjoy their game.
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Alex2life 01-Aug-19 03:37 PM
@47Ways If you were interested in this game why wouldnt you still buy it, just because its on another platform thats free for you to use?
Somoere 01-Aug-19 03:37 PM
real talk can't y'all do something else besides reacting with 🤡 not siding with anyone at all, if you don't like the decision that's fine by me it's just that the clowns aren't helping at all
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cob 01-Aug-19 03:37 PM
I never said that lmao.
big t 01-Aug-19 03:37 PM
youre lookin like a 🤡 rn
Kumi 01-Aug-19 03:38 PM
🤡 honkers rise up
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 03:38 PM
The gamers are just so incredibly mad about a game they wer never going to buy
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Vajra 01-Aug-19 03:38 PM
also why is there a bunch of people named what they are in chat?
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CobalTech 01-Aug-19 03:39 PM
I'm upset and I've been following the game's production for 2 years now. Mmmm'scuse me?
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Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 03:39 PM
@Fawful, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Fawful said: woah woah woah. i've seen a lot of **** said today, but i'm not gonna sit here and let you slander innocent skeletons
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NightKris art 01-Aug-19 03:39 PM
bee 01-Aug-19 03:39 PM
@Monagana voice your distaste ? you’re absolutely unreasonable to talk to, not to mention disgusting and rude
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47Ways 01-Aug-19 03:39 PM
@Alex2life a windows license isn't free. In addition to that, if they just announced the exclusivity without being condescending i wouldnt have a issue with waiting the year. But with how they're treating people that have issues with EGS with such condescendion, I don't think i'll buy it even after the year of exclusivity is over.
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seemaq 01-Aug-19 03:40 PM
I hate to get political but how can you play games and not be a gamer? that doesn't make any sense
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Zync 01-Aug-19 03:40 PM
I mean, the devs aren't going to back down. They said themselves that they have a minimum sale guarantee and a lump sum payment. They've got the money and no amount of outrage or lost sales is going to matter when they have those.
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𝕿𝖊𝖗𝖗𝖞 𝕯𝖆𝖛𝖎𝖘 01-Aug-19 03:40 PM
@Zync this
EmMyshuno 01-Aug-19 03:40 PM
THere is no need to call people disgusting. No matter if you think they are. It only adds fuel. And I think there's been enough for today. (edited)
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anime 01-Aug-19 03:40 PM
some of you guys are being sort of rude but its understandable to me. I don’t support egs but i mean, they do need money to make a game, and you can always wait to get it if it comes out on steam
Scruffo 01-Aug-19 03:40 PM
It's perfectly normal that people add the reaction of the Star of David to my post. Jeez I wonder how many antisemites made their way here.
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deedles 01-Aug-19 03:40 PM
Ben said he’s writing something up and he’s taking his time to make it right as to not spark anything else. Obviously it wasn’t their intention to sound condescending but they are actively working on making it right 🤷‍♀️ not much more you can ask for
Alex2life 01-Aug-19 03:40 PM
@seemaq Theres gamers and Gamers™
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TucanSam 01-Aug-19 03:40 PM
There are constructive ways to voice anger and hurt. Insults and trolling are not some of those ways. I believe perp said you could shoot him an email and he would try to respond more in depth to your concerns and issues. I'd try that as the best way to voice your concerns.
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Librian 01-Aug-19 03:40 PM
🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡
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big t 01-Aug-19 03:41 PM
@Scruffo you look like a clown
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Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 03:42 PM
guys I will now be making a game called Ooobletts, no relation but will also be an epic exclusive
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Surfinbird 01-Aug-19 03:42 PM
will it be on the virtual boy
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cob 01-Aug-19 03:42 PM
Yeah.
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CobalTech 01-Aug-19 03:42 PM
I can't wait for Ooobletts on the real boy
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Alex2life 01-Aug-19 03:42 PM
All those idiots going apeshit over this news = Gamers™
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NightKris art 01-Aug-19 03:42 PM
I am jewish and I love ooblets
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Cappuccini 01-Aug-19 03:42 PM
✡
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Mega Zamboni 01-Aug-19 03:43 PM
My wife is Jewish and even she says the epic game store move and the condescending post is low
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 03:43 PM
Gotta give props to Anne for really riding the line with their posts. Clearly meant to offend but with just enough plausible deniability to slip by.
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anime 01-Aug-19 03:43 PM
🗿🗿
bee 01-Aug-19 03:43 PM
@EmMyshuno i agree, i shouldn’t have said that it’s just so frustrating to see people be so blatantly ignorant and hurtful and think it’s okay, too much has gone on in the server today
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Skarner 01-Aug-19 03:43 PM
Okay I came here to see how hard the discussion would go, but I'm pretty sure insulting comes not only from the anti epic side, but from the other side aswell https://i.ibb.co/w4QYVSP/Screenshot-2019-08-01-Join-the-WSGF-Discord-Server2.png I think it's unfair to say it's only one side insulting at this point :p
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deedles 01-Aug-19 03:44 PM
wtH!!
Commander Cookie 01-Aug-19 03:44 PM
?
EmMyshuno 01-Aug-19 03:44 PM
Then go out, take a deep breath. We should not call each other disgusting. I know a lot of us are passionate about games and Ooblets. But this is bad @bee 😃 ❤
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Vajra 01-Aug-19 03:44 PM
OK I'm leaving this channel now, it's gotten too trollish. I'm going to have to contact the main dev about the safety of the epic launcher since i really wanna play ooblets when it's ready, but this is so sad to see the community blow up like this
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𝕿𝖊𝖗𝖗𝖞 𝕯𝖆𝖛𝖎𝖘 01-Aug-19 03:44 PM
Old movie
barret 01-Aug-19 03:44 PM
lol I saw far from home day 1
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 03:44 PM
Once the trolls get bored and don't get attention anymore they'll disappear. I hope you come back then @Vajra
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Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 03:45 PM
Ive decided to cancel Ooobletts as I dont know how to code games but I will be selling the IP for big dollars, im talking 6 maybe 7 (edited)
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cob 01-Aug-19 03:45 PM
cents (edited)
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47Ways 01-Aug-19 03:45 PM
@Freshwater Valve are the main funding of WINE/Lutris, both in money and code contribution. Are you suggesting me to buy this game on EGS and then use solutions to play it that were basically provided by free by Valve? It just shows how terrible the EGS store is lol.
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anime 01-Aug-19 03:45 PM
I offer 50 cents
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Cappuccini 01-Aug-19 03:46 PM
I am starting a new crypto currency called Oobletcoin. Any early investors should contact me for details
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 03:46 PM
Has anyone here actually come up with a reasonable explanation for why the developers assumed that GAMERS can't care about multiple things at once?
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Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 03:47 PM
Gamers cant think, this is proven American science
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Kuranghi 01-Aug-19 03:47 PM
Why am I not banned?
cob 01-Aug-19 03:47 PM
You have done nothing wrong. (edited)
Raekai 01-Aug-19 03:48 PM
Wrong: "Stupid Gamers™ are so racist and hate Ooblets stop trolling from Reddit and 4chan u r the dumb and go away bcuz ur criticisms are even just too dumb." Wrong: "✡🤡 just pirate the game because indie developers are so stupid and don't even have infinity moneys and I feel personally attacked." Right: "I'm kinda bummed about the exclusivity deal. It seems a bit unfair to advertise on Steam and then let down a portion of the fanbase, especially those who have supported through Patreon and whatnot. I just don't trust EGS / I don't want to use a different launcher / I feel a bit burned / whatever. Oh well. I hope it comes to Steam as soon as possible. I'm glad that you guys have financial support and that it helps make this game a reality."
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 03:48 PM
my doberman pinscer is going wild with all the dogwhistles in this thread
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iruma cece 01-Aug-19 03:48 PM
I mean, I'm not an expert amateur game developer, but I do regularly support groups that are working to combat climate change, don't play Fortnite, and also really dislike the EGS exclusivity crap.
big t 01-Aug-19 03:48 PM
i ship tim sweeney and perplumps
Monochrome Baku 01-Aug-19 03:48 PM
guy fieri x shrek for me, personally
AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 03:49 PM
They develoeprs are not scummy for wanting stability. "I'll just clown react to the good point since I got nothing" (edited)
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𝕿𝖊𝖗𝖗𝖞 𝕯𝖆𝖛𝖎𝖘 01-Aug-19 03:49 PM
@Anne >yaoi Disgusting
Faodail 01-Aug-19 03:49 PM
Its all okay though We have a new animal crossing coming in march anyway 🙃
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CobalTech 01-Aug-19 03:49 PM
What do soyboys have to do with anything lol
cob 01-Aug-19 03:49 PM
animal crossing (edited)
Ftothekman 01-Aug-19 03:49 PM
Which is nintendo exclusive @Faodail
seemaq 01-Aug-19 03:50 PM
animal crossing
Chico maloliente 01-Aug-19 03:51 PM
if we put a gamer in office then launcher exclusives will no longer be a thing, vote for me
Kokoala23 01-Aug-19 03:51 PM
I feel sorry for the mods...
Faodail 01-Aug-19 03:51 PM
yeah but nintendo arent a shady company are they? 😃
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AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 03:51 PM
This is exactly what people meant when they said that most of the angry people weren't gonna get the game anyways. This server isn't some place for you to just come into to spew your EGS rage. Go do that where the problem you care about will actually hear it. This is a team of two devs who want to make their game. If you have a problem with that, then you have no business paying attention to this game
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cob 01-Aug-19 03:52 PM
d'ythink ooblets will be moddable & its not a knockoff of animal crossing, it's a knock off of friendly pokemon (edited)
CobalTech 01-Aug-19 03:52 PM
I never thought Ooblets seemed like a "cheap knock off" of animal crossing
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iruma cece 01-Aug-19 03:52 PM
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand WHY a developer like this one would take the money, because game development IS HARD. It's not cheap or easy whatsoever. But invoking MARX in your argument, and claiming that gamers should "find things to really be concerned about" isn't actually a good explanation or defense of the decision. Just say you need the money. How hard is it?
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 03:52 PM
@CobalTech don't think you should be taking anything anyone says in here seriously. especially @Monagana
seemaq 01-Aug-19 03:53 PM
@AC3Productions I've been in this discord for months, I'll "spew my EGS rage" all I want (pls no ban) (edited)
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20_Bucks 01-Aug-19 03:53 PM
@Monagana loved you in Persona by the way
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TucanSam 01-Aug-19 03:53 PM
The newsletter was supposed to be funny. That's their sense of humor. Some people aren't used to it and got offended, but none of it was meant to be super serious. It was meant to have a tongue-in-cheek tone.
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Faodail 01-Aug-19 03:53 PM
Oh I did want it until I came across the twitter post of it being epic exclusive but go off i guess 🤷
Rabirose 01-Aug-19 03:54 PM
I get the newsletter was supposed to be funny, but it really missed the mark. I think a short and concise message would have been a better approach
ItsMatt 01-Aug-19 03:54 PM
Given the well-known rage towards epic perhaps it wasn’t the right tone I can see why they went for it but it might’ve made more sense to be, well, more boring with it I suppose
AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 03:54 PM
I'm not talking about you, seemaq. I'm talking about people like Monagana, whose arguments have boiled down to reacting with clown emojis and calling the game knockoff animal crossing
CobalTech 01-Aug-19 03:54 PM
@anosmicanimator I think @Monagana has some great points. I just didn't agree with Ooblets being a cheap knockoff. @Monagana np bb 💙 (edited)
barret 01-Aug-19 03:54 PM
I mean they make jokes. this one had me cracking up
BillieJoy 2
deedles 01-Aug-19 03:55 PM
My email is cool 😤
cob 01-Aug-19 03:55 PM
what is it
Raekai 01-Aug-19 03:55 PM
I think @Raekai has some good points. That guy seems to be talking some sense. 😘
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TucanSam 01-Aug-19 03:55 PM
bakut@armail.in
Puppies 01-Aug-19 03:56 PM
some how the email address joke even sparked controversy back then xD
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 03:56 PM
"Some people aren't used to it and got offended, but none of it was meant to be super serious." You cannot be SERIOUS bruh. Sarcasm IS the internet. Don't excuse being a jerk about something as "humor", that's the sort of dumb excuses for crap behavior that you'd expect from GAMERS ™
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 03:56 PM
@Monagana, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@47Ways, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@47Ways said: @TucanSam considering their responses in this very discord, that doesn't seem to be true. They continued to be condescending after the announcement too. **** you have them calling the people who complain "children" and that "they weren't going to buy the game anyway" which, as a patreon supporter myself is...ooof
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Scruffo 01-Aug-19 03:57 PM
Honestly should just ban Monagana permanently if they're gonna be that
MayorChuy 01-Aug-19 03:57 PM
Soooo, what is the well-known rage against EGS? I'm actually asking just to know why because I'm not familiar with it.
fishbones 01-Aug-19 03:58 PM
Fear, uncertainty, and doubt (often shortened to FUD) is a disinformation strategy used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics, cults, and propaganda. FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a...
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 03:58 PM
It's easy to get defensive when people come in acting like they have so far. When you have internet trolls attacking your family, community and passion project it's not hard to imagine them taking offense and fighting back.
deven 01-Aug-19 03:58 PM
yeah, today was the first I've heard of it as well (edited)
deedles 01-Aug-19 03:59 PM
Exclusivity and grudges against the platform is my take from my research today
AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 03:59 PM
There is some valid criticism of the Epic Games Store, but a lot of it is misinformation and feigned disdain for bad business practice
sadaNice 5
Scruffo 01-Aug-19 03:59 PM
@Moderator for Monogana, especially with trying to cover a racial slur
seemaq 01-Aug-19 04:00 PM
@Scruffo what was the slur
Sombodh 01-Aug-19 04:00 PM
epic also got the worst security know to mankind and horrible support teams aswell, they have admitted to breaking a law here and there aswell
👌 1
CobalTech 01-Aug-19 04:00 PM
How about the poor treatment and overworking of their employees? Did that come up in your "research" today?
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barret 01-Aug-19 04:00 PM
the anger is strange to me but I'm simple. I grew up with dial up internet and had to play game games on floppies disks so using a different store never upset me everyone has different reasons and experiences I'm guessing
47Ways 01-Aug-19 04:00 PM
@TucanSam well they started being defensive and condescending even before all that happened.
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 04:01 PM
If you mean the newsletter 47, again it was made in jest. Not to be taken seriously.
Sombodh 01-Aug-19 04:02 PM
mate, i got 1000+ attempted log ins on my epic account i havent used in years and i've had to change password atleast 200 times, so it ain't fake boi @Freshwater
AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 04:02 PM
Crunch is terrible, but instead of getting on the Ooblets team for Epic's practices I encourage you to support unionization movements like Game Workers Unite
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 04:02 PM
And I've never had a single attempted login. What does a sample size of 2 make?
Bonzi77 🌞 01-Aug-19 04:02 PM
@AC3Productions sorry abt that friend request that was a misclick
Scruffo 01-Aug-19 04:02 PM
Sample size of 3 time, never had the attempted login. Seriously if you're worried about security, DON'T save credit card info (edited)
GethynB 01-Aug-19 04:02 PM
I used to get a couple emails every week saying that my account had been compromised, I ended up cancelling my card and wiping my account. Their security is atrocious
Ftothekman 01-Aug-19 04:02 PM
@Faodail logic leapin to assume a company that has been the backbone for american game development is shady. No one should trust any full company completely, even nintendo.
Gryphon 01-Aug-19 04:03 PM
Steam is hardly any better at security.
EmMyshuno 01-Aug-19 04:03 PM
i never had an issue with them. Maybe it depends on where you're from?
CobalTech 01-Aug-19 04:03 PM
@AC3Productions this is #epic-chat bud
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 04:03 PM
Here's a pro-tip: if you act defensive with your announcement to take the money from a distro platform, even before the backlash got started, you probably knew that there was going to be a backlash coming in the first place. But what could have helped stem things off would be to just admit, with hat in hand, that the money is really important so the devs don't have to shut down/sleep in the streets/move back with the parents. Instead, they posted what they posted, insinuated that GAMERS™ should care about REAL THINGS, and the discussion here from defenders of the post have been EXACTLY THE SAME as the sort of horsecrap you see on 4chan when some anon posts antisemetic nonsense and says "its just a joke bro, dont take it so seriously."
Raekai 01-Aug-19 04:03 PM
I don't even trust myself. 😏
Zync 01-Aug-19 04:03 PM
Because mistreating employees, and engaging in anti consumer practices all while having a storefront that took a year to add a search bar and STILL is over SIX Months away from a shopping cart all while having the slowest responding UI in the history of launchers are not valid reasons.
deedles 01-Aug-19 04:03 PM
The overworking did come up and I researched it. It super sucks and I hate that it’s happening. There’s nothing right about it, but there’s never been a game like fortnite in the history of ever, so it’s hard to say if that sort of thing would happen if it were epic games or not
deven 01-Aug-19 04:03 PM
complaints I've heard that sound valid: - EGS not accepting certain currencies - EGS allegedly has a history of permabanning for minor infractions, and this being difficult to reverse - slow response time for support tickets The rest were just like... complaints you can levy against any multimillion dollar corporation. arguably point 3 is as well (edited)
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Faodail 01-Aug-19 04:03 PM
I still trust nintendo 1000% more than I do epic. Sorry, but going exclusive put me off the game completely. (edited)
Caribou 01-Aug-19 04:04 PM
Is the game still coming to Xbox One?
anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 04:04 PM
yes
seemaq 01-Aug-19 04:04 PM
yo where are the emotes btw
Sombodh 01-Aug-19 04:04 PM
@Gryphon i have never had a problem with security on steam, GOG, once on origin and 2 times on uplay, but 1000+ on epic
ElegantSaria 01-Aug-19 04:04 PM
I imagine off for the time being. Heavy traffic in servers sometimes are helped that way. (edited)
barret 01-Aug-19 04:05 PM
do any of you actually know actual epic employees. I ask because I do and actually get to hang out with them. they do get time to do things outside of epic
Gryphon 01-Aug-19 04:05 PM
@Sombodh Just because you haven't had an issue doesn't mean Steam hasn't had breaches.
Zync 01-Aug-19 04:05 PM
@deedles if Epic has enough money to pay huge sums to indies and AAA devs for exclusivity, they have enough to hire a dev team that doesn't need constant crunch
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 04:06 PM
To be fair, it's easy to see security risks inflate when you have a game as popular as fortnite. It's the biggest game in the world, so of course hackers would be desperately trying to get into people's accounts.
Ftothekman 01-Aug-19 04:06 PM
Good ol games doesn't get thise steam exclusives. Yell at steam too
Raekai 01-Aug-19 04:06 PM
Did reactions get disabled or do I suddenly have the dumb? I apparently have the dumb... (edited)
🤔 4
shrumbo 1
seemaq 01-Aug-19 04:07 PM
@barret we get it, you're a developer, you said it 5 times already
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 04:07 PM
Might have disabled them for non star belly roles.
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 04:07 PM
@Ftothekman but that's not because steam/valve is paying to keep them off of gog, but that the publishers/developers choose not to release them on there
barret 01-Aug-19 04:07 PM
what I'm saying is that people make a lot of comments about people they don't actually know about.
jacob 01-Aug-19 04:07 PM
dont be rude seemaq i think the disconnect between what actually happens as a gamedev in the industry and what people expect is an extremely important focus for how much anger is being generated
Chibeth 01-Aug-19 04:08 PM
I think that's one of the problems, is that A LOT of the talk about Epic is speculation.
47Ways 01-Aug-19 04:08 PM
@barret are you trying to say the journalists that spent months investigating the severe issues of crunch at Epic are lying? That's a bold claim.
Sombodh 01-Aug-19 04:08 PM
it's not speculation @Chibeth
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 04:09 PM
but there is a thing that is not speculation: the lack features in their launcher and are buying exclusives already annouced for other stores
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 04:09 PM
Lots of speculation, including when they are actually going to meet the objectives on their roadmap.
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 04:09 PM
@barret true. It will vary between departments, individual staff etc but spoken to Chance Ivy and Amanda Bott a bit and they still love it. Although Chance is super busy these days.
Ftothekman 01-Aug-19 04:09 PM
@Cbajd5 so we should yell at developers for wanting more money from steam sales??? No, I'm joking. Don't. (edited)
barret 01-Aug-19 04:10 PM
i have a friends that does normally work 60 hours at workbut I've worked 80 hours outside the game industry but they have plenty time to do lots of fun things they love and they are tons of other companies here in North Carolina that you can easily go to work at so you're not stuck at epic it you don't want to be
Chibeth 01-Aug-19 04:10 PM
I'm not saying all of it is, but I think it's fair to say that we don't know everything and don't have all of the facts.
47Ways 01-Aug-19 04:10 PM
@Freshwater fresh developer testimonials are "outdated data"?
deven 01-Aug-19 04:10 PM
Crunch is a games industry-wide problem, not limited to one company. Crunch is practically industry standard. It's bad that it exists, but Epic doesn't have a monopoly on it. I worked in mobile games for a couple of years, and our (low-paid) bug-testers in particular were constantly stuck at work (edited)
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 04:12 PM
@Ftothekman no? you can ask them if they can release on other platforms, but there's nothing stopping them besides deciding to do so or possibly feeling that the development to seperate integration into the apis valve provides through steamworks and such wouldn't allow for a return on the investment to do so
barret 01-Aug-19 04:12 PM
nothing is perfect but journalists blow things up larger than they really are because that's what people wanna read. it's not to say there are no problems. but it's not as bad as they make it to be
Ftothekman 01-Aug-19 04:13 PM
@Cbajd5 they choose steam because of potential profit. That potential profit is pure profit on epic. Why risk it? (edited)
Raekai 01-Aug-19 04:13 PM
GAMERS RISE UP and defeat climate change so Ooblets can come to Steam. clickyclawsangry /s
MayorChuy 01-Aug-19 04:13 PM
So, I've been reading through your responses and am getting a bit of the concerns people have with the Epic thing. So, for those who are against it, what is your biggest concern?
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 04:14 PM
It is absolutely astounding that the fans defending a blog post that invoked Marx in its defense for taking an exclusive deal with Epic Games can turn around and make excuses for Crunch in the industry. I refuse to believe that @barret is a developer, because I have worked with developers who have dealt with crunch, I have have to urge them get the psychiactric care they needed. That you can casually suggest that reports of crunch are "overstated" or even a flat out lie says a lot more about you than your claim to fame as a developer.
Cappuccini 01-Aug-19 04:15 PM
I was going to brush my teeth but first, time to combat climate change
barret 01-Aug-19 04:15 PM
my longest day of work was 32 hours. if that isn't crunch I dunno what is
Vajra 01-Aug-19 04:15 PM
Epic has a super-sketchy history, I do not want to expose my only laptop to emails about fortnite or spyware
deven 01-Aug-19 04:15 PM
Calling out all hypocrisy all the way.
Chibeth 01-Aug-19 04:15 PM
@barret This. Not to mention, a lot of people are bandwagoners. They're hating on Epic because everyone else is hating on them. Not saying that everyone is, of course! But I do think that's one reason this has blown up.
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Ftothekman 01-Aug-19 04:15 PM
What is Marx? That was a one off joke. Let it go. @iruma cece
Lyserg.Z 01-Aug-19 04:15 PM
> that invoked Marx in its defense You say that as if the Marx mention wasn't entirely a joke =/
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mac 01-Aug-19 04:15 PM
For me, I don't like the idea of paid exclusives ever becoming accepted practice in the PC industry. It may be speculation, but I'm thinking- okay, at the end of the day, it's a huge corporation with a load of disposable income offering a small unproven developer a deal they'd be mad to refuse. What's stopping an even less savory company like google, or facebook from doing that?
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 04:15 PM
@Ftothekman i agree with their decision to go with the epic exclusivity for that exact reason, the only thing i think might negatively affect them going forward would be for any future games if epic doesn't offer the same deal for those
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 04:16 PM
in my case, i have 3 main issues with epic: lack of basic features in their launcher (like cloud saving, archievements or better game sorting), privacy/security concerns (they had countless data breaches), and the fact that they are trying to buy exclusives already anounced (or worse, backed) for other storefronts. and extra issue is tim sweeney high and mighty attitude, but that can´t be patched xd (edited)
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 04:17 PM
@iruma cece, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@iruma cece said: It's a crappy joke @Ftothekman . I'll bring it up when I * well please. I've worked 72 hours straight on projects for Bioware. Crunch is crap, and making excuses for it, or claiming that reports of it are false or overstated says a whole * lot about the people here.
mac 01-Aug-19 04:17 PM
I think at the end of the day paid exclusives are anti-consumer period, and any public acceptance of it is going down a road I'm uncomfortable to tread. It opens the door for any gigantic corporation to poach audiences by throwing cash at devs.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 04:18 PM
why not just crowdfund it then? many great indie titles were crowdfunded AND ooblets already has a huge following
ABCelestial 01-Aug-19 04:18 PM
The fact that so many people are here, specifically because they're mad that they didn't get the joke is outstanding. People have just been making butts of themselves for hours now. It's been entertaining, at least. You're proving everyone right.
Ftothekman 01-Aug-19 04:18 PM
Sell your consoles then
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 04:18 PM
At least it seems to have died down quite a lot already xD
Honeyxilia 01-Aug-19 04:19 PM
@seemaq that's not a stable way of funding a game, especially when you're doing it for a living, because you can't be sure of the amount you'll get or if you'll fail. (edited)
deven 01-Aug-19 04:19 PM
lol, EA only releases on Origins, last I checked. this isn't new
♦Skymaniacs♦ 01-Aug-19 04:19 PM
@Scruffo
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 04:19 PM
It's a not a good joke @Ftothekman . I'll bring it up when I well please. I've worked 72 hours straight on projects for Bioware. Crunch is awful, and making excuses for it, or claiming that reports of it are false or overstated says a whole lot about the people here.
MayorChuy 01-Aug-19 04:19 PM
Thanks for filling me in with the concerns. Like I said, I don't know much about it so was just looking for info.
Lildog 01-Aug-19 04:20 PM
@deven EA releases their own games on Origin. They don't exclude 3rd party games to Origin. It's very different (edited)
Sombodh 01-Aug-19 04:20 PM
@MayorChuy 1) epic treat their devs/supp ect teams like they are trash 2) their security is so bad i would rather trust a homeless person with my credit card information than them 3) they have broken a few laws if i remember right and even admitting to it and not get punished what so ever for it 4) store-wise, it's garbage, it don't even have a shopping-cart, the simplest of things to put on a store 5) people have legit been banned forever for buying a game on their store, not very high number, but still shouldn't even be happening in anyway. i can go on, but gonna leave it at this for now
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 04:20 PM
EA doesn't just make an exclusivity deal: they buy out the entire studio and then only publish on Origin aha.
mac 01-Aug-19 04:20 PM
@deven there's a world of difference between "publisher releases first/2nd party releases on their own platform" and "kind-of-publisher-but-not-officially throws mountains of money at games already promised, maybe even available for pre-orders on other platforms to ensure they're only released on theirs"
barret 01-Aug-19 04:21 PM
I've been laid off right before Christmas. I've gone through crunch. I've gone through a lot of the bad things. but when I talk to my friends and I see them out and about and they are available to do things and they aren't complaining about things to the same level as journalists are then I see the version portrayed is not as bad as the journalists say I'm not saying crunch is fine. I'm just saying that journalists don't know anything about it themselves
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 04:21 PM
also the epic mega sale that created some problems for certain devs that found their games there without their consent. was pretty problematic for supergiant games
deven 01-Aug-19 04:21 PM
yeah you're right it is different - Ooblets will eventually be available on other storefronts 🙄
seemaq 01-Aug-19 04:21 PM
@Ken Kun bruh they'll just ban you again
♦Skymaniacs♦ 01-Aug-19 04:22 PM
but @Ken Kun got banned for something he didn't do. It was better for him to voice it rather than staying quiet to these 3 bruh momentos
CobalTech 01-Aug-19 04:22 PM
@Ken Kun anyone that paid any attention to the context of your messages would be able to tell that what you said was not a slur. They just wanted an excuse to censor
Gigafrost 01-Aug-19 04:23 PM
Since it's been announced that it will be on the epic store, do you know when we can expect to play a beta?
mac 01-Aug-19 04:24 PM
greater point here for me is less that they took the deal, which like, duh, easy call for a fledgling developer, I can't blame them for it- and more that they immediately segwayed into a condescending "dude there's not even a problem in the first place" while painting everyone who might disagree with this gross "icky toxic gamers" brush. IMO, brushing off peoples concerns with "but like, global warming" is akin to anti-SJWs brushing off domestic social concerns with "but like, there's slavery abroad", it's just kinda lame (edited)
Sombodh 01-Aug-19 04:24 PM
@Gigafrost they don't even have a price for the game yet
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 04:25 PM
Honestly, the EGS currently has all the same problems that the Nintendo e-shop does. Navigating it sucks, there's no shopping cart, and there's no real way to provide legitimate user feedback. And unless Epic actually starts to address these issues now, indies like the Ooblet devs will be crying about the challenges of discoverability when the platforms library grows more difficult to manage. The same honeymoon period that Nintendo enjoyed with its e-shop, followed by the complaints that getting found on it had gotten too difficult, are going to happen with the EGS.
Chibeth 01-Aug-19 04:25 PM
I really don't think they meant it to be condescending. I'm not sure why everyone is taking it that way.
Lildog 01-Aug-19 04:25 PM
@Chibeth Not sure we're reading the same thing then
Zync 01-Aug-19 04:25 PM
I don't understand how anyone could see it as not condescending
deven 01-Aug-19 04:25 PM
omg that's right, eshop doesnt have a shopping cart either. i forget every time I go on there haha
bitowl 01-Aug-19 04:25 PM
@Ken Kun Just keep it PG in here and you will be fine. No need to use those words.
Konflikt 01-Aug-19 04:25 PM
I LOVE OOBLETS
this 5
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 04:25 PM
thats something that will happen with every store, all of them end convolluted when growing
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 04:26 PM
Poop lol
Cappuccini 01-Aug-19 04:26 PM
💩
mac 01-Aug-19 04:26 PM
@Chibeth because it goes out of its way to downplay the concerns people might have, chiding them for not instead dealing with immense societal problems no one person could be expected to tackle on their own? it's ridiculous
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 04:27 PM
Also it assumes I've played Fortnite.
♦Skymaniacs♦ 01-Aug-19 04:27 PM
@bitowl He got banned for not even saying a swear or anything. @Scruffo Banned him by using the excuse that he used a swear.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 04:27 PM
I remember being exited for this game
Honeyxilia 01-Aug-19 04:27 PM
@iruma cece it was a joke, the fortnite thing, you know ? because it's a popular game ??
bitowl 01-Aug-19 04:28 PM
@♦Skymaniacs♦ Just replacing one character in a racial slur is definetely not PG
deven 01-Aug-19 04:28 PM
i... ok how old are you guys, the ones whomst are bickering about being unjustly banned
worstboy 01-Aug-19 04:29 PM
Can some one summarize in one sentence why people are mad I simply do not see the problem with a dev team of two people prioritizing financial stability over... people not liking Epic...?
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CobalTech 01-Aug-19 04:29 PM
I mean, I think that the EGS blog post had a great point. I'm going to take the developers' advice and not get overly angry about this controversy when there are more important injsutices in the world. Therefore, I will not be buying Ooblets, and will instead be donating the money that I would've previously used to buy the game to climate change relief efforts.
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 04:29 PM
@Honeyxilia so if someone posted something antisemetic/homophobic in here, but then said "it's just a joke", would you be among the first to say "Yeah man, people just aren't used to that guy's sense of humor"
Mizu 01-Aug-19 04:29 PM
I know what happened. When you typed “boot LICKER”, it was typed that the CK was two Gs instead. So it looked like you were trying to get around typing an actual slur. (edited)
barret 01-Aug-19 04:29 PM
I was born in the 80s. no complaining here. just support to the devs
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 04:30 PM
I'm pretty sure I know hat you said that was taken as a slur and I can see why it was taken that way. Also please don't make false equivalency arguments. Joking about fortnite is nothing like racist jokes
Chibeth 01-Aug-19 04:30 PM
@mac Well, I think that they've even stated that that's not how they meant it to sound. I think they were nervous about the announcement, due to all the controversy. Which is fair. I'm sure they were trying to lighten things up, is all.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 04:30 PM
@anosmicanimator, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@anosmicanimator said: @CobalTech **** yea dude save the planet
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 04:30 PM
@worstboy Epic Games Store has some legitimate problems + people expected the game on steam
worstboy 01-Aug-19 04:31 PM
Perfect succinct sentence thank you @JC_ADX
Vajra 01-Aug-19 04:31 PM
I contacted perp about some stuff, havent' heard back. I may just give up for the time being and just wait for it on steam; i do not want to not support such a creative-looking game, but it's getting harder and harder to do so, everyone i've showed the post to is not impressed at all (edited)
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 04:31 PM
There's a difference between a joke that is derogatory against an entire group of people and assuming someone played a game....
Honeyxilia 01-Aug-19 04:32 PM
@iruma cece let's see... One of the jokes isn't mocking nor insulting ? like, implying you might have played fortnite isn't insulting of any sorts ?
mac 01-Aug-19 04:32 PM
The impression I got was a pretty strong "we don't think our community will care about this so the rest of you can just deal lol" from the way they painted anyone angry about epic exclusivity as entitled gamers who should care about ~important things~, just saying
Chibeth 01-Aug-19 04:32 PM
Could they have done it in a better way? Sure, but we're all human. Mistakes happen, and we all interpret things differently.
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 04:32 PM
@Vajra I believe they are at lunch so give them time. I'm sure they have a lot of contact to get through when they return
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 04:33 PM
@Honeyxilia yeah, but I was joking when I pointed out that the post assumed I played Fortnite. Maybe you're just not used to my sense of humor.
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 04:34 PM
i think the intention was clearly joking, but it got misinterpreted (mainly because, as i say, there are legitimate complaints against EGS that get dismissed)
Honeyxilia 01-Aug-19 04:34 PM
I've seen people legit being mad at the jokes from the post so sorry i guess
seemaq 01-Aug-19 04:34 PM
Where can I find the post everyone is talking about? I only got the e-mail (edited)
SaveTheSunF1R3x 01-Aug-19 04:35 PM
Epic 😦
ElegantSaria 01-Aug-19 04:35 PM
Perhaps this discussion regarding proper/improper jokes and ban appeals aren’t proper for here? Just a thought really. Many are using this space to provide their thoughts on an announcement and how it was delivered. It’s probably best to let them have the floor. 💕
mac 01-Aug-19 04:35 PM
Like I get it, there are a lot of people out there who will just react out-of-line, completely aggro and unreasonable, but there are pretty legitimate concerns about the normalization and apologism for huge corporations being able to just buy out chunks of the market at their leisure, I feel people should always be wary towards that
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 04:35 PM
The real point of contention, for me, is that the developers said: " get the appeal of wanting to seek out things to get angry about. Venting anger is cathartic and natural, but let’s have just a little perspective about what we decide to get angry about. Look at the things going on around you and ask yourself if there might be anything just a tad more worthwhile to be upset about. Here are just a few suggestions: Climate change Human rights abuses" as part of a legitimate effort to deflect any criticism of their choice to take the deal. They could have easily just said "Yo, game dev is hard, and we need to keep the lights on. We want to sell on as many platforms as we can, but for now, in order to just finish our game, and make it the best we can, this deal ensures we can do just that."
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 04:36 PM
Alright, I'll try to make this short, I had interest in this game, I don't really care about EGS, but I didn't like the post at all. Like if you had said "We took the EGS deal for financial stability" and left it at that, it would have been perfect, it is what any company would do. What made me stop and think though is the general behavior adopted towards people who have an issue with it, it was borderline inflammatory, and the ending of the post was disingenuous with the use of a fallacy of relative privation (The whole saying you shouldn't complain because there are more important unrelated things). This is the part I didn't like, because if I do purchase this game, and end up having issues, is this the kind of response I am expected to get as a consumer? "Your game doesn't launch? Dude, there are starving out there." That's just my 2 cents, but for now I'll skip this title.
Chibeth 01-Aug-19 04:37 PM
I honestly think that they would have gotten flak no matter how they put it.
ElegantSaria 01-Aug-19 04:37 PM
I think that’s fair @iruma cece ultimately I think that’s important feedback. From what I see it wasn’t malicious in any way, but perhaps written as lighter announcements usually are. Perhaps it realizing the weight of it all.
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 04:37 PM
The post was a newsletter for patreons afaik. It probably got sent out on reddit somewhere
mac 01-Aug-19 04:37 PM
@Chibeth They certainly would have, but I don't think that makes the way they put it here okay IMO, either.
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 04:37 PM
Never heard of this game before the epic deal, after that and looking at it online I think this is going to be a hard pass for me.
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 04:38 PM
But they didn't do that. That wasn't their "sense of humor," that was just them trying to lord over the people they KNEW would be upset even before they wrote the post.
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 04:38 PM
i think the devs underestimated how badly EGS is seen in the community
seemaq 01-Aug-19 04:38 PM
Ah, that's probably it, I'm not a patron. Funny how they choose to be rude to their patrons and not the e-mail subscribers (edited)
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 04:38 PM
Maybe, but any company needs to realize that the way they communicate reflects how they are perceived, they seriously changed my perception of them with this post. @TucanSam It's the first post on the official website
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 04:38 PM
A rather large announcement
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 04:39 PM
It's on par with - "Don't you guys have phones?" It's... not the best way to handle things and I don't think it really helped anything. It doesn't matter if some people didn't find it condescending - it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Making a post they knew was going to receive backlash should have been handled more seriously instead of "worry about climate change Gamers(tm)" For sure they would've received flak no matter what but take a look at the announcement post on the Ooblet's subreddit - most of the complaints have nothing to do with EGS but moreso the condescension in that blogpost.
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 04:39 PM
Did you come in to this discord just to...say you weren't going to buy a game you're not interested in? Lol Ahh, I read it on patreon, didn't know it was on the site too
ElegantSaria 01-Aug-19 04:40 PM
I can understand that. Often indie development teams have to find their voice. I think we have all had moments where we were trying to tell people something and it came out wrong. I think it’s fair to have an opinion about how it was said, I would hope we could be willing to maybe see if they have more to say on it.
SaveTheSunF1R3x 01-Aug-19 04:40 PM
Honestly i'm more concerned with how poor EGS security is. I've been quite reluctant to give them any of my information as a result.
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 04:40 PM
That and to soak in some of that sweet sweet EGS hate, it fuels my soul.
deedles 01-Aug-19 04:40 PM
If you go and read their previous dev logs and dev videos, they have a history of being silly goofs. I think those who are versed in their ways as people and writers weren’t affected by today’s announcement, but given the gravity of the announcement they could’ve been less jokey as to not seem condescending to those unfamiliar. Yeah the news really sucks for a lot of people and that’s understandable.
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 04:40 PM
If people pointed out that the humour was inappropriate rather than what chat has been doing today then maybe we would have had better responses but sadly the chat descended into chaos and baseless insults.
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 04:41 PM
Well I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and I still am - but doubling down by saying "the people who are upset with the blogpost probably weren't going to even buy the game in the first place" really really irked me.
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 04:41 PM
I mean to be fair, most the trolls coming in angry were just here because they smelled blood in the water.
mac 01-Aug-19 04:41 PM
They're probably not even necessarily wrong that a lot of people going aggro right now are just following a hate train but that doesn't mean they're justified in blowing off any concerns people might have the way they did, lol
bitowl 01-Aug-19 04:42 PM
@iruma cece If you have been in any of the discussions about Epic for any of the previous exclusives, you can't deny that a huge part of the discussion is done by people who just want to be angry about something. All the arguments here have been repeated thousands of times already, so I think they perfectly captured the debate there
ElegantSaria 01-Aug-19 04:42 PM
I agree @AhadielGames like I said, people often misspeak (or come across in an inappropriate way) when trying to get a point across. I think that’s happened on multiple levels here today.
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 04:42 PM
At the end of the day, the devs have made it abundantly clear that they don't actually care about the audience beyond people who are already in the tank for the game. And with the Epic deal, they don't actually have to! They have their money now, what patrons have offered them up to now is utterly meaningless next to the cash Epic offered up. They, and people like @TucanSam can easily just toss out garbage ad homs about GAMERS™ "who weren't interested in the game ever" and should care about REAL PROBLEMS instead. It's no skin off their back.
Chibeth 01-Aug-19 04:42 PM
Well what I'm saying is that, people misinterpret stuff all the time! Making a bad joke that didn't resonate with everyone doesn't make them terrible people.
Librian 01-Aug-19 04:43 PM
I saw people talking about this on discord
Gigafrost 01-Aug-19 04:43 PM
I dunno, I don't think the humor was trying to be malicious, but yeah... I don't think that joking about the Epic Game store was a good idea, considering how contraversial it is with a lot of people.
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 04:44 PM
Maybe they should have made a video so you can get a better sense of tone as there is so much variance in how people are taking this. (edited)
mac 01-Aug-19 04:44 PM
they should've just not even touched on the issue itself and been like "we're a small indie developer and the deal was an obvious choice," that would've been whatever, but they had to go further than that and essentially say "we don't think this is an important problem and anyone who's angry about it probably wasn't going to buy, anyway." That's just like-- what are you even thinking
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 04:44 PM
@iruma cece If you think that's true, then I'm sorry. Ben and Rebecca aren't like that and if you stick around you'll realize that. @Ken Kun From the patrons and supporters here I know, very few feel insulted personally. Some are for sure upset and disappointed, but none feel like they were targeted or betrayed afaik
ElegantSaria 01-Aug-19 04:45 PM
For those who have brought constructive critiques about that, and brought them with kindness (or at least civility) are truly doing wonderful things. It gives insight perhaps someone didn’t have before, and that’s okay.
Chibeth 01-Aug-19 04:45 PM
At this point it seems people are just copy/pasting the word condescending. Feels as though that's the only concern. They also have already said they didn't mean it like that. (edited)
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 04:45 PM
It doesn't make them terrible people in the slightest but dang read the room. People WANT to support your game. People WANT to be on your side - you can't talk down to them and assume they're not going to get a little peeved. Everyone who had problems with the blogpost even make it a point to say "I support the decision to move to EGS but your tone sucked".
deedles 01-Aug-19 04:46 PM
Go and read and watch all of their previous dev logs and videos, they use humor everywhere they can put it. Those who know their tone probably weren’t offended by the post but could be disappointed by the news. Those who jumped in here after reading this one devlog with this news would find it condescending which was a mistake by the devs, but no malice was intended (edited)
Zync 01-Aug-19 04:46 PM
I mean, all they had to do was say "were listening to your feedback" and then do absolutely nothing about it like every single other dev who's done this. Don't know why they shot themselves in the foot by trying to say your concerns don't matter because the world has bigger problems.
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 04:47 PM
Well it isn't so much the condescending, people expect professionalism from the companies they deal with. As I've said in my post above, even though I personally don't care about EGS and had been looking at updates to this game every few weeks, I still see how they communicate to people having potential issues. To me, my perception is that if I have a certain issue with the game, like I dunno, I can't access a certain level, their response might just be "Dude, stop complaining, there are starving people in the world", at least, that's how I perceive it.
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 04:47 PM
I have watched their previous dev logs. I have seen their videos. I was still taken aback especially by the 'worry about climate change or human rights issues' part. I understand their tone, but I don't understand why they found it appropriate to use it in an important announcement they knew they would get backlash for. It's beyond me.
ElegantSaria 01-Aug-19 04:47 PM
I’d advise that piracy is against discord TOS @Ken Kun
mac 01-Aug-19 04:47 PM
The epic argument has been repeated ad infinium, it's verging on tired to keep putting the same arguments forward, everyone's heard it already- it's easy to understand why a dev would take the deal even if you disagree, but for them to take the deal and then go on to try and dunk on people who don't like it is just "wtf"
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 04:48 PM
People who pirate the game were going to beforehand probably. Let's be real. It's okay to say you didn't find the post funny, but it's not okay to insinuate they meant offense when it's clear they didn't. If you feel offended, that's valid. But they never meant for that to happen.
👆 1
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 04:48 PM
Shouldn't be willing to pirate a game at all under any circumstances.
Librian 01-Aug-19 04:48 PM
I'm pretty sure they did by how they're acting
tengblad 01-Aug-19 04:48 PM
So, I've been very excited for Ooblets for a very long time, ever since the first gifs and trailers started showing up. I've not been following the dev blogs closely because that's just not something I do. So reading today's Epic post as the first thing I read on their blog, the tone came off as really condescending. I don't even have any issues with EGS myself - I think it's perfectly fine that the game is going there, and I'm happy for the devs to get more money! But reading that blog gave me a really bad impression of the devs for dismissing all concerns about Epic in a way that to me, as a first time blog visitor, read as very rude. I'm sure many are in the same position as me, and that post was the first thing they read on the blog. Just my couple of cents on the issue.
Raekai 01-Aug-19 04:49 PM
I'm familiar with their humor but it did offend me in the moment. I had an angry rant typed out to comment on their Patreon post, but I thought about it and chilled out. Definitely a bit disappointed. Happy that they get financial support. I understand that they weren't trying to offend anyone. Initially, however, it felt like they were being condescending and saying that anyone who doesn't support the decision is an angry Gamer™, and this reaction definitely shows that others felt similarly, and I don't blame them.
ElegantSaria 01-Aug-19 04:49 PM
Apologies. I misread actually @Ken Kun so sorry!
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 04:49 PM
Not offended - just really disappointed.
Chibeth 01-Aug-19 04:49 PM
Contrary to what people think, the devs have feelings too! I'm sure they thought long and hard on how to break the news. We should also give them some time to respond. I'm sure they're reading all of this. @bruh There's really no reason to be rude.
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 04:50 PM
I don't have a problem with indie devs taking the Epic deal because I recognize how hard it is to BE an indie developer. I do have a problem being condescended to by them about legitimate concerns I may have with their platform of choice, and I absolutely dislike being told that I should be more concerned about "real problems", especially ones where I already have a personal vested interest in. I came in here to voice my own displeasure at this, and instead came across a "developer" saying that reports on crunch were fake news, and shills like @TucanSam telling me that what I saw and how I felt about it was wrong/wasn't actually the way I was meant to feel.
Zync 01-Aug-19 04:50 PM
@TucanSam thats really not the case for a lot of people. I'll go out of my way to avoid giving Epic money because of all the sleeze they're involved in, I'm currently paying for the PC game pass just to pay Metro. Pirating is a last resort.
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 04:50 PM
epic in fact have epic grants to help indie devs
The Sin Cave ™ 01-Aug-19 04:51 PM
If this many people are saying that the blog post came across as rude then I don't think "that's just how you interpreted it" is a valid excuse anymore. Devs done goofed. Devs gotta own up to it.
Leah 01-Aug-19 04:51 PM
🇪 🇵 🇮 🇨
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 04:51 PM
Being sad, angry , offended or disappointed are all valid. You're not wrong to feel that way, but there are constructive ways to express and deal with those emotions. @iruma cece I've never said that how anyone felt was wrong or invalid. Just that no offense was meant through the post.
Gigafrost 01-Aug-19 04:51 PM
Something along the lines of "Sorry, we're in over our heads and need more time and money, we're going to have to support it through Epic, and afterwards to other platforms. We hope you all understand as we try to make this game the best it can be for you all." Would have been better received I feel. But it's whatever at this point. I just hope it comes out as great as I hope it will.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 04:51 PM
@Cappuccini, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Cappuccini said: This is mean. I got made fun of like this all the time when I made games and it * sucked. It didn’t give me a thick skin or make me a better developer or make me think more about what I was doing, it just hurt.
ElegantSaria 01-Aug-19 04:51 PM
I think @Chibeth is right. Giving people time to respond is important. A lot of feedback has been thrown at them and it takes time to sort through that
2e7en 01-Aug-19 04:52 PM
I haven't gone from liking something to absolutely hating something this quick before. These devs are on a different level of stup idity
mac 01-Aug-19 04:52 PM
I totally feel the notion that people routinely fail to voice their concerns to developers without being a massive jerk about it but whether or not they intended it, and personally, it kinda feels like they did at least a little bit- they were kinda rude.
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 04:52 PM
Disagreement = rude chickadingding
Vajra 01-Aug-19 04:52 PM
Yeah, that's not fair. I do care that the devs are human and have lives and need to keep the lights on, but that doesn;'t excuse the tone they used to describe the epic deal, nor the shady stuff that epic does
deedles 01-Aug-19 04:52 PM
I’m not saying you never cared about the game, if that’s what you thought. I’m explaining how confusion and differences of opinions about the way the devlog was worded could arise
Chibeth 01-Aug-19 04:52 PM
@bruh I was only referring to this. "Maybe those people feel the same way so they use similar words to convey their similar emotions. What a wild idea."
seemaq 01-Aug-19 04:53 PM
@ElegantSaria they could have asked for our feedback first
Cappuccini 01-Aug-19 04:53 PM
This is mean. I got made fun of like this all the time when I made games and it f-ing sucked. It didn’t give me a thick skin or make me a better developer or make me think more about what I was doing, it just hurt.
Librian 01-Aug-19 04:53 PM
All we got instead was "Lol we're epic only now, deal with it."
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 04:54 PM
@SyntheticTeapot Also that, even if I think they are calling it a joke, is a very common fallacy to dismiss complaints (it's called Fallacy of relative privation) @TucanSam It isn't offense, but simply lack of professionalism when dealing with issues. There are times for humor and time for serious. And communications are one of they ways they display how they would behave in certain situation. To some of us who are less involved than others but were still looking at the updates now and then from the website, at least to me anyways, it made me wary because I've seen a lot of devs do that kinda thing. If I buy a product and encounter issues, I expect proper communication, not "guys, stop complaining that the last patch broke this and that, there are starving people out there."
cooljammer00 01-Aug-19 04:54 PM
was it the Phoenix Point devs who said they could refund every single backer they had and still make a profit because of how much money Epic was giving them?
Zync 01-Aug-19 04:54 PM
There's time for humor and there's time for just being upfront. Announcing an unpopular business decision is not the time for it.
kseixas 01-Aug-19 04:54 PM
I think the argument "Steam also had problems when it launched" is bs... so if I launch a black and white phone now can I say "the other phones were also like this before i'm just starting" besides the features you say are coming to epic is bs and I have proof
2e7en 01-Aug-19 04:54 PM
months ago i knew barely much about this game yet I was excited. now all i know is it's an epic exclusive and being developed by a condescending tw at and it will feel awesome seeing this game in a humble bundle in 5 months
ElegantSaria 01-Aug-19 04:54 PM
There’s a lot of things that could have taken place @seemaq but it’s possible that it wasnt up for debate. We don’t know the teams situation. Ultimately they had every right to make this call though. We as consumers should probably respect that, and vote with our wallets ya know?
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 04:54 PM
I was going to buy the game, even had plans to buy copies for friends. It's pretty obvious to me now that the devs don't actually need my money or support, nor do they want it. After all, anyone who disagrees with them is a GAMER™ and was never interested in their game in the first place. These devs aren't the first to make a PR fumble, and they won't be the last when it comes to EGS exclusives. But they could be one of the first to actually own up to what they've said, and apologize for it.
Adanine 01-Aug-19 04:55 PM
Eh, Imma still buy it. Don't really care about EGS or Steam, game looks neat
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 04:56 PM
I don't believe that any indie dev needs to consult their community to make a deal that will secure their livelihood and ensure they can live safely, healthily and happily and still put out the game they are making. They don't owe us that sort of input into their decisions. @Icemasta I don't think that ben and rebecca are the type of professional you are used to. They are just people and they make mistakes. What makes them endearing is how real they have been so far. This is how they normally communicate. It's just them being themselves.
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 04:56 PM
supergiant games apologized for their fiasco in the epic mega sale (raising the game price mid-sale)
YeteeGlen 01-Aug-19 04:56 PM
It's a bummer that such a cool game has to be a galvanizing point for such a hot topic in the industry, but I guess it is what it is.
cooljammer00 01-Aug-19 04:56 PM
so of course the Ooblets people are gonna take the money. I'm bummed, and I'll wait, but still bummed. But just say you needed the money. Also if it's true, and the game will come to Steam once it sells X amount of copies on EGS, that's some goalpost-moving I don't agree with.
2e7en 01-Aug-19 04:56 PM
Mentioning human rights abuses as a thing to be more upset about while selling out to a company that is 40% owned by the Chinese government is... odd. and this is a reason indie devs who lack social skills should never interact this close with the community lmao fools
Cappuccini 01-Aug-19 04:57 PM
Climate change tho
Chibeth 01-Aug-19 04:57 PM
We have to give them time to apologize. This news just came out. I doubt they're happy about hurting so many of their fans. I also hope everyone who is slamming them can at least try to see it from their perspective.
mac 01-Aug-19 04:57 PM
@bruh It totally is, that's just the way our world works, it'd be stupid not to take that offer of financial stability as a small developer, but they should've left it at that!
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 04:57 PM
@TucanSam Mistakes can be made, but using human rights abuse as a point in a fallacy is in poor taste. (edited)
Sneaks 01-Aug-19 04:58 PM
lmfao
Raekai 01-Aug-19 04:58 PM
@YeteeGlen It is, but thank Oob I can distract myself with some cool daily tees at Yetee. 😉
Adanine 01-Aug-19 04:58 PM
Yeah, a lot of game devs have owned up and apologised for PR fumbles. Not sure what you mean by "They might be the first". But either/or, Steam ain't perfect, Epic ain't perfect, so long as game is cool, I'm keen
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 04:58 PM
The fallacy was the point of the joke.
deedles 01-Aug-19 04:59 PM
Those who are angry at the tone of the devlog seem to have only read this one devlog and haven’t read their previous logs and gotten to know them and their way of explaining things. You act like it was condescending when it’s just how they’ve been rolling for the past few years. They meant no malice or condescension toward their fan base, and if you felt condescended then you should know now it was just them being themselves
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 04:59 PM
@NobleArcade, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@NobleArcade said: Just dropping in and hoping some of the devs see this. You all knew there would be backlash for siding with Epic. I get it. Devs need to survive and making games is hard. It's not just a click of a button and everyone is happy. I understand some people may have supported this game since the beginning and now that you've "sided" with Epic may drop support... **** em. I personally am a console gamer but will be picking up an EGS copy as well. I just want to see you all succeed. Thanks for being frank with us and letting us know. Basically. TO THE DEV TEAM. Keep up the good work and focus on the positivity not the negativity.
Librian 01-Aug-19 04:59 PM
What @iruma cece said is pretty on point. The devs don't need us anymore, they can just get free gibs from Epic and don't even that many people to buy the game.
The Sin Cave ™ 01-Aug-19 04:59 PM
Oh no, I've read previous devlogs. This one is still rude
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:00 PM
@TucanSam Once again you miss the point, are you related to Chris Cillizza, by chance? It's not that the devs "owed" the community time to consult with us before they made the move. That is not, and never has been the argument being made, and it says a lot about you that you keep projecting this sort of behavior onto the critics. All the devs needed to say is "Hey, we took the deal. We needed it from a financial standpoint. We know people will be disappointed, and we know that people HAVE been getting disappointed for deals like this. But we wouldn't have taken it if we didn't need it, and our goal at the end of the day is to bring out the best darn game we can, to this and any other platforms in the future."
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 05:00 PM
@Adanine, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Adanine said: Why do you need to be needed by a dev? Why can't you just buy games you're interested in, and not buy games you're not? What difference does it make if a dev needs your sale or not? The **** does that even mean?
ElegantSaria 01-Aug-19 05:00 PM
I think this is something people are bringing as a pain point that seems to be rebuffed. Regardless of reading prior devlogs, an announcement like this reached a wider audience (who may be interested in the game but not involved) and it impacted them. Some it impacted negatively. I think it’s valuable to be heard on such things.
Zync 01-Aug-19 05:00 PM
You can be funny and quirky all you want when talking about your game. You probably shouldn't do that when talking about a business decision that many people don't like and will be upset about.
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:00 PM
@TucanSam So, to you, it's okay to use people that are starving, getting tortured and many more violent abuses that I will not list here as the butt of a joke? I've served in Darfur and let me tell you that human right abuse isn't fun
mac 01-Aug-19 05:01 PM
I'm sure the chinese government keeps a strong eye on tencent at the very least, but I'd probably want to offer a source if you really wanted to make the claim that Tencent and the CPC are one in the same
Sneaks 01-Aug-19 05:01 PM
What @iruma cece said is pretty on point. The devs don't need us anymore, they can just get free gibs from Epic and don't even that many people to buy the game.
2e7en 01-Aug-19 05:01 PM
I would have loved to have seen the face as they thought they wrote such a great blog post about this lmao! fools
Mustafa Fasula 01-Aug-19 05:01 PM
So why the hate ?
Leah 01-Aug-19 05:01 PM
gotta be quirky while getting epic cash
NobleArcade 01-Aug-19 05:01 PM
ALSO FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS OOBS... please don't apologize like other companies do. you did what you had to do. you made a decision and should stand by it. Don't back peddle because peoples feelings are hurt. I hope you all have a good day. AND continue to support the game.
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 05:01 PM
Again, being angry, disappointed or hurt are valid emotions. Please deal with them constructively. Insults and abuse are not constructive.
Vajra 01-Aug-19 05:02 PM
@NobleArcade can't do that anymore, not with the tone that was taken and the mistakes made in the post. Now for me it's not even the Epic portion, but the tone that's taken in the newspost (edited)
bilger 01-Aug-19 05:02 PM
Thing is they don't need sales anymore
seemaq 01-Aug-19 05:02 PM
they don't care about the sales anymore
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:02 PM
i waited 10 minutes to say yar har fiddle dee dee
Buff Pigeon 01-Aug-19 05:03 PM
wow a jokey tone for a blogpost, they've never used that tone before how wild of them, yeah should definitely apologize /s
mac 01-Aug-19 05:03 PM
again, a lot of people aren't purely annoyed that they took the deal, taking the deal is a smart decision for a dev with no financial stability- people are annoyed with the tone of their statement, which comes off as kind of rude and insincere.
2e7en 01-Aug-19 05:03 PM
the level of disrespect on this blog post made me now have a negative interest in this game. Funny how they make the strawman claim that those who disagree with them haven’t thought it through, but then don’t even bother to explain why we’re wrong.
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 05:03 PM
You waited 10 minutes in the wrong room then chuck rofl
Flamingo 01-Aug-19 05:03 PM
I am anger
Mustafa Fasula 01-Aug-19 05:04 PM
And i liked the blog and they shouldn't apology at all every developer looking for anyway to improve his game is a respected developer
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:04 PM
@TucanSam You keep urging for constructive discussion as though we're on the brink of not having any, when you and people like @Buff Pigeon and other fans have done far more to try and smother my points with "humor" or outright lies.
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:04 PM
@TucanSam "Again, being angry, disappointed or hurt are valid emotions. Please deal with them constructively. Insults and abuse are not constructive." I have not thrown a single insult or abuse, I've written two very clear paragraphs about what they should do better, your dismissed that as "it is their type of communication", and when I assert what was wrong, you loop back to that?
bitowl 01-Aug-19 05:04 PM
@2e7en Except they actually adressed the arguments most of this boils down to right above that?
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 05:05 PM
Then don't apologize - but I can't say that it'll help change the perception of people who did take some offense to the blogpost. 🤷🏽
seemaq 01-Aug-19 05:05 PM
@Buff Pigeon there was a post literally five minutes ago explaining why you shouldn't try to be quirky when talking about a business decision
Adanine 01-Aug-19 05:06 PM
Those paragraphs weren't clear, and hilariously you spoke down on people as if your opinion is fact @Icemasta . Is that not the very behavior you're complaining about?
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:06 PM
When they inevitably clean up the discord, you can bet they will keep doing just that, @Ken Kun
mac 01-Aug-19 05:06 PM
also can someone explain the joke behind the blogpost? I didn't really get the impression that they were trying to be ridiculous or disingenuous by drawing comparisons to climate change and war crimes, it just seemed like they were talking down on people caring-about-this-dumb-thing (edited)
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:06 PM
@Adanine Please do show me where I spoke down on anyone, I was very polite, you're probably mistaking me for someone else.
The Sin Cave ™ 01-Aug-19 05:06 PM
Climate change and war crimes are so funny
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:07 PM
the joke is they said "i believe in your ability to download a free thing" and im going to take that as an invitation to download the game for free
2e7en 01-Aug-19 05:07 PM
the blog post is condescending and clearly written by people who lack self awareness and people who lack understanding of the situation.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 05:07 PM
@Chucklenuts you're definitely getting banned lmao
Mustafa Fasula 01-Aug-19 05:08 PM
Why are you angry? the post was right and it was a fact
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 05:08 PM
I don't think anyone here is allowed to control how another person runs their business. If you think they made a poor choice with their wording and tone, then that is your right to think that. Feel offended, be mad. Those are valid emotions. But understand the intent behind the message was not to convey those emotions to you. If you think they made a mistake, that is a valid opinion to have. I cannot force them to apologize. Perplamps for his part said he was working on something to address the issue. We will have to wait until then to see what his response is. @iruma cece I don't believe I have lied about anything to you? Humor is subjective. @Icemasta I'm unsure why you think your way of doing things "right" is more valid than others? Disagreeing does not mean your opinion should be held above others. You are not right because you say you are right. (edited)
deedles 01-Aug-19 05:08 PM
Their post today matches the tone of their past posts, although given the news their usual attitude towards dev logs was inappropriate. Again, there was no malice intended in their post, but they were trying to lighten the mood that some may be feeling. Which, didn’t go down well obviously lol. It’s fine to be angry at the decision but don’t take it out on the creators who just want the best game to give to their fanbase
☝ 2
Raekai 01-Aug-19 05:10 PM
Here's my current issue: what am I going to have for dinner? It has nothing to do with Ooblets or Epic. I just can't decide between burgers or porkchops. Definitely ice cream for dessert, though.
Buff Pigeon 01-Aug-19 05:10 PM
@iruma cece I'm sorry for making a joke but I don't see how i can really be blamed given that this really isn't a space for constructive discussion. @seemaq and in a similar vein, there's a lot going on in this channel and i didn't see that and nor do i necessarily agree with it, it was a blogpost for followers of the game and they've made similar posts in that tone about other business decisions as well. there's at least consistency
2e7en 01-Aug-19 05:10 PM
you mean the creators who already insulted us?
The Sin Cave ™ 01-Aug-19 05:10 PM
The creators are the ones that made the post tho. It didn't go down as planned and they need to own up to it. They goofed up.
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:10 PM
@TucanSam Dude, nobody here has been demanding control over how they run their business. There's another fallacy of yours, please read your own responses, I'm assuming you have the same 2 minutes I do between posts.
Conspiracy 01-Aug-19 05:10 PM
@Raekai Porkchops on a bun.
mac 01-Aug-19 05:10 PM
go for the porkchops bruh
bitowl 01-Aug-19 05:10 PM
@mac Discord discussions for previous games that got timed EGS exclusivity were always flooded by people that had no interest in the game and just came in to say that they don't like EGS and constantly repeating the same (already debunked) arguments. That paragraph was a reference to those people who are just angry for the sake of being angry.
Daisy-Pink71 01-Aug-19 05:10 PM
Meanwhile i'm just excited its still coming out. X3
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:10 PM
i just cant imagine how smooth your brain has to be to think making such a passive aggressive post about epic exclusivity would ever go over well
Adanine 01-Aug-19 05:10 PM
In response to praise you said " What made me stop and think though is the general behavior adopted towards people who have an issue with it, it was borderline inflammatory". You made out a strawman, took the high horse, and called out the strawman as inflammatory. Can you not see the comparison? @Icemasta
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 05:11 PM
@iruma cece The response is to "Oh they should do this, or say this and do this". Why? What if they disagree? Why is your opinion on what they should do correct? It is very possible they feel they did nothing wrong. So are they wrong? Or are you? And why are you right and they are wrong? Disagreeing with what they did does not make your opinion more valid than theirs. This is all subjective. You can be angry if you want, but that anger doesn't invalidate their choice and decision.
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 05:11 PM
what debunked arguments? The privacy concerns? The anti consumer practices? The horrible customer service? Those are all true so, please enlighten us. (edited)
2e7en 01-Aug-19 05:12 PM
I like how they mention the "epic is anti-consumer" part of it and then...Just start talking about other stuff instead of countering it (because they can't)
bitowl 01-Aug-19 05:12 PM
@Chucklenuts Jace from Satisfactory (their community manager) also did a lot of those snarky comments and it worked out well for them in the end ^^
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:12 PM
@bitowl You know what would be a really constructive discussion? If you actually addressed what people like myself have been saying IN THE CHAT RIGHT NOW, rather than attacking people who aren't even here/still waiting 10 minutes out so they can post.
Mustafa Fasula 01-Aug-19 05:12 PM
I can't believe people are offended by the that post it's okay for people to threat the developers to pirate their games but it's not allowed for the developers to express their anger about it
mac 01-Aug-19 05:12 PM
@bitowl I'm aware of those people! It still came off like they were brushing off the concerns period. It wasn't really like "we understand some of you will feel disappointed but it was the best decision for us," it was "Most people who care about this are toxic gamer jerks and we don't think our fans will mind so whatever, lol"
Raekai 01-Aug-19 05:12 PM
@Conspiracy and @mac, thank you for wasting two minutes to vote for porkchops. Gonna grill some up and put 'em on some buns.
Librian 01-Aug-19 05:13 PM
@mac When most of their fans are drones who will defend anything they do, they're right on that part
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:13 PM
@Adanine What? That line is in context with what the rest I have said, it isn't a strawman at all, and I didn't take the high horse at all in that. I honestly thing you're (badly) trolling right now. (edited)
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 05:14 PM
IMO they should do something to save face - whether that's making a twitter post saying we didn't mean for the tone of our announcement to get misconstrued or whatever. I know if I had a product and I upset my customers and potential customers, regardless of my intention, I would want to save face and protect my product. But that's just my opinion.
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 05:14 PM
@Mustafa Fasula I mean they did say Epic already paid for a minimum number of copies... So is it really piracy?
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:14 PM
thank you epic for paying for preording my copy
deedles 01-Aug-19 05:14 PM
It’s impossible in this day and age to say anything and not get someone offended. They were obviously not attacking anybody and were poking fun at the stigmas of the GAMER. That may not have come across as well as they had hoped given that not everyone is accustomed to their devlogs, so try not to take the GAMER jokes personally
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 05:15 PM
@A Guy in Shorts yes, because it wasn't offered to you as a free copy.
tacothebabe 01-Aug-19 05:15 PM
this drama is gonna blow over and end of the day they're gonna be in a better position then they were before the EGS deal.
Librian 01-Aug-19 05:16 PM
@deedles We had people defending this action using the "EBIL GAMER" thing unironically
Adanine 01-Aug-19 05:16 PM
Genuinely aren't, but fair enough. If you feel like you're in the right, you do you.
mac 01-Aug-19 05:16 PM
I think the vitriol epic receives does inevitably result in misinformation directed towards them, but epic according to developers who have been approached by them also do things like offer to secretly buy loads of a developer's games themselves so they can report it a financial success if they agree to the exclusivity deal, so I don't really find them trustworthy, either
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 05:16 PM
@AhadielGames tomato tomato.... Well that doesn't work in text form does it... Oh well.
2e7en 01-Aug-19 05:16 PM
Why were the devs so worried about getting more money for the game? Don't they know they could instead worry about bigger problems like climate change?
The Sin Cave ™ 01-Aug-19 05:16 PM
@deedles Stop trying to put the blame on people who, for good reason, took offense and thought it came across as rude. It doesn't matter how "jokey" or "quirky" their devlogs are. (edited)
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 05:16 PM
welp if you're going to sit here and brush off fans who did not appreciate the 'joking tone' then that kinda sucks. "people are going to get offended by anything in this day and age" really isn't a great defense imo but alright.
Strawberry Pancake 01-Aug-19 05:16 PM
Reported for fraud on steam, bye.
👋 1
Buff Pigeon 01-Aug-19 05:16 PM
@Librian it's easy to say that people coming in to criticize the decision to go with epic are drones as well given the behavior of that crowd. i'm not one to defend epic, i don't care for crazy giant company, but in the same way i don't care about big ol valve and steam either, epic offered them funding that they needed and they took it and that's what matters here. if you are averse to using the epic games store that's your choice, don't go attacking an independent developer just because you fancy yourself an armchair dev that knows what's best and what's right to and how to make decisions with money and all that.
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:17 PM
@SyntheticTeapot kind of concerning how quickly the "snowflake" rhetoric got trotted out
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 05:17 PM
Lol fraud
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:17 PM
@deedles Maybe, but using human rights abuse and all that it implies (torture, rape and what have you) for a joke is generally seen in poor taste. This is the kind of thing I would have gotten warned about in any of the companies that I worked for, and some of them were rough.
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:18 PM
coupon code tyler1 dot com
deedles 01-Aug-19 05:18 PM
I’m not blaming any of y’all, the devs messed up but what I’m saying is that it wasn’t personal
tacothebabe 01-Aug-19 05:18 PM
the people who talk most about pirating are gonna do it anyways 😂
Buff Pigeon 01-Aug-19 05:19 PM
it's dumb to try and say that "oh anyone will get offensive about anything nowadays" that's a pretty terrible position. i think the issue that occured is that that post was written to be read by people that have been seeing those posts and following them for a while, people used to the tone, but this whole announcement blew up and people saw it out of context
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 05:19 PM
Good luck finding it on there Chuu! Probably scan those files for viruses first!
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 05:19 PM
Not true, I had thought about pirating outer worlds and Metro Exodus until I found out I could play them on the Xbox game pass PC
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:19 PM
"i'm not one to defend epic, i just spend hours on discord defending epic from GAMERS™ cant those people have real concerns"
Daniel D 01-Aug-19 05:20 PM
To be fair the developers said "I don't think people have thought enough about exclusives being anti-consumer" then provided no actual argument as to why they were wrong
2e7en 01-Aug-19 05:20 PM
i love how in the beginning of their blog post they promote fortnite like they've been with EGS for a day and they already have to promote daddys child
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 05:20 PM
g*mers are babies
☝ 3
Leah 01-Aug-19 05:20 PM
frongite
seemaq 01-Aug-19 05:21 PM
@Jacobim gamers > gamedevs at this point @Buff Pigeon you're being rude (edited)
Buff Pigeon 01-Aug-19 05:21 PM
@iruma cece been in here for minutes but suuuuuure you go pal, you're so big and strong 😚
mac 01-Aug-19 05:21 PM
"it makes me angry when people dismiss my concerns but watch as i dismiss concerns from people i disagree with"
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:21 PM
I remember a really good Google Doc thoroughly documenting all the issues with EGS, but apparently it got taken down for "violating TOS" LUL
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:21 PM
I'm a gamer not because I don't pay for a game, but because I don't pay for many
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 05:22 PM
It's not about other platforms, I have quite a few, it's about using EGS full stop.
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:22 PM
@Buff Pigeon cool never reply to me ever again if you don't actually have something constructive to say about anything, tia
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 05:22 PM
I hope the ooblets team unionizes
deedles 01-Aug-19 05:23 PM
I’m not defending epic and what they do, I’m just standing with Ben and Rebecca and their decision to make the game the best they could make it. I already know that they goofed with the devlog and I also know that Ben said he’s writing something up in response, making sure he takes his time on it to make sure he doesn’t make the same mistake again
Lucas9 01-Aug-19 05:24 PM
I've been waiting 10 minutes just to say this
😱 2
Buff Pigeon 01-Aug-19 05:24 PM
@iruma cece not like you've done anything constructive either, big strong man, changing games for the better by harassing devs on discord
☝ 1
Mustafa Fasula 01-Aug-19 05:24 PM
I have been using the Epic games store for months i haven't had a single issue
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:24 PM
This is a pretty good read, and funnily covers some of the points made in the blog post: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DuU-bjOqiCsZgXtqN_F3eCdx2CKKOT8_/view
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:24 PM
now you gotta wait another two minutes to actually say it
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:25 PM
@Buff Pigeon If you can actually point to where and when I have harrassed devs in this chat right now, I will eat the ban gladly.
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 05:25 PM
I think we should seize epic's means of production and spread the wealth
2e7en 01-Aug-19 05:25 PM
@Mustafa Fasula good for you but no one asked you and just because you have no issues doesn't mean no one does
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:25 PM
Well that wasn't nice Chuu
mac 01-Aug-19 05:25 PM
i have the perfect solution that will satisfy everyone right here: break up epic
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 05:26 PM
And the devs said their thoughts. If you get angry then it's on you.
Leah 01-Aug-19 05:26 PM
delete epic games
Mustafa Fasula 01-Aug-19 05:26 PM
They just added cloud save and improved their offline experience
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 05:26 PM
thanks Chuu. I'm at work. Really didn't expect to see an NSFW picture on here but thanks.
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:27 PM
@Buff Pigeon I am absolutely serious. Find where and when I've done this. You've been here long enough. Get a mod to go through my posts if you have to. Find where I was offensive, and make some magic happen kiddo!
Axorm 01-Aug-19 05:27 PM
Yeah delete epic games and steam and all those, you should play games on the machine that it has been developed on, that's the only way
Lucas9 01-Aug-19 05:27 PM
I've been waiting 12 minutes just to say this: the Ooblets team is based and has all my support. I had never heard about the game, I'm not interested in that kind of game, and so sadly I'm not going to play it. But they said it all. Anyone who doesn't realize you can dislike Epic and still buy a game exclusive to the Epic Store wasn't going to buy Ooblets anyhow. So they have effectively offended no one with their blog that wouldn't have been otherwise already offended with their decision to go for Epic.
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:27 PM
didn't aol teach you not to click on suspicious links in chatrooms
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:27 PM
release ooblets on Itch.io you monsters
Honeyxilia 01-Aug-19 05:27 PM
^
Librian 01-Aug-19 05:27 PM
@CHUU I don't see how posting surgery images is helping
v01ara 01-Aug-19 05:27 PM
@Mustafa Fasula wow, amazing tech in the year 2019. Origin at launch in 2011 had better features than Epic. I'm fine iwth the deal, the blog is my main issue, as well as a couple discord posts.
mac 01-Aug-19 05:28 PM
release ooblets on the sega CD, thank you.
Leah 01-Aug-19 05:28 PM
shopping carts are the hl3 of epic games store
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 05:28 PM
I don't really see what the blog post did to offend people unless they were the target audience who like, doesn't believe in climate change or something
The Sin Cave ™ 01-Aug-19 05:28 PM
I want ooblets on the Roku plz
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:28 PM
I do have one final question for the devs though; why aren't they spending their time and effort towards saving the starving people, curing cancer or solving climate change? Isn't it a big waste of their time as there are much bigger things in the world that needs working on? (edited)
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 05:28 PM
you're right Chucklenuts. That's kinda on me. I was expecting an image that was going to somehow contribute to the conversation but I guess I have too much faith in people.
deedles 01-Aug-19 05:28 PM
Well worth the wait lucas9 fleeble
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:29 PM
They COULD add features. It's just not a priority for them. also Ooblets for Ouya PLS
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 05:29 PM
Why aren't you icemasta? You spent a lot of time on discord today which could have been spent at your local soup kitchen.
v01ara 01-Aug-19 05:30 PM
@TucanSam i dont think ice wrote a blog post to thousands saying they should worry about other things besides store exclusivity
Lucas9 01-Aug-19 05:30 PM
Even the jokes (especially the flossing gif) were great, and that's hard to get right. I just hope they don't backtrack with an apology. It won't change anyone's minds, and it will actually make them feel like they have won ("haha now you apologize! too bad indie developer, the future is now").
The Sin Cave ™ 01-Aug-19 05:30 PM
@Jacobim if you can't understand what was rude about it then you're dense and there's no helping you. 🤷
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:30 PM
@TucanSam Huh, want me to take a picture from my humvee right now? As I literally told you like 25 minutes ago, I am stationed in Darfur right now. Why do you think the human right abuse thing upsets me? (edited)
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 05:31 PM
"if you can't see why I'm offended then you're dense"
mac 01-Aug-19 05:31 PM
@TucanSam ice wasn't the one who brought up the "why not fight climate change" idea in the first place though, because he probably knows that it's silly to expect everyone to drop their passions and only care about huge societal problems and i know that they don't literally expect everyone to go out and solve climate change but the underlying point was that they don't think this is a worthwhile issue which is still pretty lame of them (edited)
seemaq 01-Aug-19 05:31 PM
@v01ara lmao
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:31 PM
why complain about small thing when you could be donating your kidney right now you monster. never complain about anything.
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:31 PM
I work in cancer research, where's my cookie
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 05:32 PM
The flossing gif was great. They shouldn't apologize or anything for their decision to go to EGS but I think addressing the concerns that their fans have with EGS would be better than dismissing them, right?
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 05:32 PM
🍪
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 05:32 PM
But yet you still find time to be angry on the internet. What a hero.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 05:32 PM
@v01ara, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@v01ara said: honestly that whole section is gonna bite them in the *** as a copypasta or something for a while "human rights abuse" is honestly the worst part, like why even bring that up
Snutt 01-Aug-19 05:32 PM
I feel like the blog nailed it perfectly with the part about having a little perspective about what we decide to get angry about. But that's none of my business kermit drinking meme (edited)
radladrad 1
The Sin Cave ™ 01-Aug-19 05:32 PM
@Jacobim I'm not really offended but sure let's make assumptions.
cooljammer00 01-Aug-19 05:33 PM
the devs can do what they want, but also they just better be sure they never F up, because I bet it'll matter to them way more than "climate change"
mac 01-Aug-19 05:33 PM
@Snutt expecting everyone to just drop their passions and start working to cure world hunger is insane, people will always have their passions. they're upset about this because they care about it. We're all complicit in inaction unless we're working literally every moment of our waking lives to better the world, it'll drive you crazy to think that way. (edited)
minimme 01-Aug-19 05:33 PM
2e7en 01-Aug-19 05:33 PM
guess were only allowed to be angry at mayor world things then lmao fools
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:33 PM
imagine having only one shot at life and being named caleb
tacothebabe 01-Aug-19 05:34 PM
if they have a blog post clarifying their position then go for it and peoples concerns with EGS, would be better than an apology. the fact that they even have an open discord to discuss this is cool, not many game devs would be so open
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:34 PM
@TucanSam It's good you're finally taking off the mask to reveal how you're just as much a GAMER™ as the people who are apparently the only ones upset about the blog post lmao
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 05:34 PM
@Librian, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Librian said: They only made this channel to talk **** about people telling them this isn't a good idea
v01ara 01-Aug-19 05:34 PM
honestly that whole section is gonna bite them in the rear as a copypasta or something for a while "human rights abuse" is honestly the worst part, like why even bring that up. I still want ooblets, but if the EGS isnt improved by the time it comes out, i'll just wait
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:35 PM
Oh man, @TucanSam, I have to say, you have no shame. I really hope you never experience the kind of crap the people here have to live through, although it might make you learn a thing or two, but you are right that I am wasting time here. But hey, compassion isn't for everybody. (edited)
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 05:35 PM
Can someone link the blog post
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 05:35 PM
Indeed, you are.
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:35 PM
people angry about people being angry about angry people. also can we all just chill a bit
silveralen 01-Aug-19 05:35 PM
this channel is here for people to not be chill don't discourage them
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 05:36 PM
A rather large announcement
seemaq 01-Aug-19 05:36 PM
I'm never mad tbh
mac 01-Aug-19 05:36 PM
this is sort of degenerating into shitposting right now so i'm just going to leave it on a tl;dr selling out to a big corporation for financial stability: disagreeable, but completely understandable making a blogpost downplaying and brushing aside the concerns of people who might not agree with the move: kinda rude and not as ok
Lucas9 01-Aug-19 05:37 PM
I believe they know very well that there are legitimate issues with the Epic Store. But the issue is that "it's anti-consumer" is just one way to look at it and it completely turns an otherwise meaningful discussion into a "you are wrong and I, the consumer, is right". Epic Store would be fantastic if gamers didn't act like manchildren. + Devs gain an extra profit. + It allows for a better future for said dev. - The cost (for customers) is the lack of some quality features from Steam. Even this last point is negated when the only (legal) choice would be "do I play this game with no Steam features, or don't play it at all?". Sadly, what actually happens: + Epic Store guarantees a certain amount of sales (by giving devs money). - Butthurt gamers pirate the game. - Because of this, you know that the money Epic gave you is effectively backed by nothing, i.e. you are out of a future since the X amount of copies you had to sell weren't actually sold. - The customer should still lose since the game is still not released on Steam, and even more: they haven't bought it. But like I said earlier, what happens is that they will pirate it anyway, so not only the game is not released on Steam, no only do they not enjoy Steam's "essential quality of life features" (no such features if you pirate a game), but they also get to play it. Therefore: the problem isn't Epic. The problem is people who boycott developers.
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:37 PM
I prefer constructive disappointment over weirdly personal attacks tbh snurfler
Jones 01-Aug-19 05:37 PM
@Snutt I suppose you and whoever wrote that disgusting article, decides what people can get angry about then?
Librian 01-Aug-19 05:37 PM
@Lucas9 Epic sold AAA games at 5$. TRULY BETTER FOR DEVS
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 05:38 PM
The problem is, always has been, and will continue to be (for a little while) capitalism.
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:38 PM
It's always better to be honest, and @TucanSam finally recognizes this and is clearly a happier person for it. Look how hard they are trying to score internet points off of an actual aid worker. That takes spirit! I'm sure we'll see eachother on the chans, I'll be sure to spot you projecting how you believe others are acting rather than addressing anything they are saying.
hmaon 01-Aug-19 05:38 PM
Epic has been paying devs at full price for every copy they give away for free though?
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:39 PM
@hmaon Companies don't like that anyways because it devalued their game, that's why many games were pulled from their sales. There is marketing psychology where a consumer will wait for seen prices. Epic discounted games including newly released one without publisher approval, and they didn't have a system in place to stop it, so some games were unavailable for the couple weeks of sale (edited)
Lucas9 01-Aug-19 05:39 PM
@Librian I don't quite understand your comment. Are you implying you know which store is better for developers, as opposed to the people who actually sign the contract and know the eventualities of said contract? In other words, are you implying Ooblets has willingly sabotaged itself against Epic?
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:39 PM
Epic has a poopton of cash which is why they are able to attempt to be loss-leaders at the moment since it's not sustainable. There's no way any storefront could reasonably counter that, which is the point
seemaq 01-Aug-19 05:40 PM
"Ben wrote a very funny and hopefully not too inflammatory post announcing it all, which you should read here. It features some gifs of very poor attempts at flossing that we mocapped yesterday just for that post." oh.. oh no...
mac 01-Aug-19 05:40 PM
i don't really think epic are the ~industry good guys~ some people like to play them as considering they like to go around the developers themselves to nab exclusivity deals, profit off of marketing microtransactions to children, and run their own developers ragged to keep pace with fortnite's utterly insane content schedule Not even as though valve doesn't do some of the same, but all the same (edited)
Raekai 01-Aug-19 05:41 PM
@Conspiracy and @mac, I have bad news. My girlfriend said she wants burgers for dinner and not porkchops. Flip dangit. This is almost as bad as Ooblets not being launched on Steam. #porkchopsshouldntbeanepicexclusive
kseixas 01-Aug-19 05:41 PM
Epic just wants to be Steam they don't care about devs or players
Librian 01-Aug-19 05:41 PM
Epic will also lock your account if you buy too many games (edited)
hmaon 01-Aug-19 05:41 PM
@Icemasta I haven't seen any complaints from devs or publishers. You got a link or something? @Medea Steam doesn't have any kind of warchest? What are they doing to compete?
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:42 PM
managing pretty well to be better than epic's garbage launcher
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:42 PM
Earlier today, Epic once again took a page from Steam’s book and announced a “mega sale” that includes both percentage discounts and an additional $10 off every game priced $14.99 or higher on the Epic Games Store. It seemed to be smooth sailing for the sale, but then t...
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:42 PM
@hmaon They do, but they reinvest in technologies, open source initiatives, VR R&D, etc. They could probably do the same for the while, but again, it's not reasonable for anyone long term
Leah 01-Aug-19 05:42 PM
🤔
Jones 01-Aug-19 05:42 PM
@Lucas9 It's like you have done no research into what you are talking about. You are a even bigger problem than the store itself, calling "gamers" children, because they, themselves decide where and how to spend their money? You are disgusting
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 05:42 PM
Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.[1][2][3][4] Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system and comp...
RaspberyPhoenix 01-Aug-19 05:43 PM
what in the world is this chat (edited)
Librian 01-Aug-19 05:43 PM
Eat the rich and those who support the rich
Monochrome Baku 01-Aug-19 05:43 PM
it's been like this for the past four hours
seemaq 01-Aug-19 05:43 PM
@Jacobim can you stop with your communist propaganda please
mac 01-Aug-19 05:44 PM
hasn't epic said before that they're currently operating at a loss? i'm pretty sure that some of the features that valve offers from their higher take also directly support developers, I believe hat in time's crazy like, 64-or-something player co-op is only possible because of steam, for instancew
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 05:44 PM
@v01ara, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@v01ara said: @Medea adding onto this, lets not act that Epic is some godlike entity sent for indie devs to rally around simply because they have money. besides exclusivity deals, which didnt really exist on pc before them (besides in house, like ubisoft and origin), epic has abysmal security, **** i get messages from my own account each and every time i attempt to log in on my personal computer. adding onto the increasing accounts hacked or literally losing games from them. Oh and epic has screwed devs over (though they fixed it, so i'll add a point) with the sale. in making an informed decision, i see a game i have high hopes for, and i'm worried
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:44 PM
the gentle laborer shall no longer suffer
Lucas9 01-Aug-19 05:44 PM
@Jones Sorry, but you earn the "children" tag when you behave like one. And nothing defines a child better than throwing fits over something that is quite literally a non issue. I've yet to see Steam turn an otherwise awful game into a good one just because it has some "features" which are due to the store and not the game. What kind of sane person boycotts a game just because it doesn't have fluff attached to it that won't make it look, sound, or play better? What kind?
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:44 PM
@mac Well that's their tactics. They know fortnite money cannot last forever so they had to pivot into something, and that something is the EGS, except they can't compete without a market share, so they're buying up their market share using exclusives
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 05:45 PM
@Jacobim Yeah this conversation is never going to be the commie soapbox you want it to be
kseixas 01-Aug-19 05:45 PM
@hmaon steam are investing on their platform while epic has a roadmap for the store that has been the same for 5 months no improvements
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:45 PM
Epic also passes on cost of different payment method fees on to customers, rather than how everyone on Steam pays the same price since Steam takes that cost (with the % they take) (edited)
Brown Beard 01-Aug-19 05:46 PM
Cloud saves, forums and user reviews to name a few, are a big deal though.
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:46 PM
@Buff Pigeon Hey bud, just checking in to see if you've found all that dev harassment I've committed in this discord, please update us all with your progress
Snutt 01-Aug-19 05:46 PM
cloud saves are rolling out
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:46 PM
Your boots, sir.
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:47 PM
They've already said in a tweet that ultimately they'll have to increase the cut they take if they want to get to steam parity, they never said by how much though. Want it or not, all the services provided cost money in the end.
mac 01-Aug-19 05:47 PM
I'll admit that I don't have the full picture, most people don't, it's not as though we have epic insiders- but most of what i've heard, from tim sweeney saying that he wants epic to grow into a facebook-tier corporation to the samsho developers saying epic would artificially inflate their sales numbers if they took an exclusivity deal, kind of lends me to the conclusion that maybe I shouldn't take their forced image as pro-developer good-guy competition with no strings attached at face value
GethynB 01-Aug-19 05:47 PM
@Lucas9 making a game look, sound and play better is literally what keeps a lot of old games relevant via mods. Not wanting to buy a game that might only be a weekend thing is totally valid take, even without the mods the convenience of what those things entail, can be a make or break point for many people
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 05:47 PM
@fooey, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@fooey said: I really enjoy that the blog post is straight up trolling for outrage clicks. How desperate do you have to be to go out of your way to **** of your potential customers just to get their attention?
Jones 01-Aug-19 05:47 PM
@Lucas9 Again, a non-issue? It's like you have completely forgotten that the epic store not only sniffs your information, with the backend of epic being shady beyond belief! Yet you stand here, and claim that epic is a great storefront, when even the poor people who use it, got banned for "buying too many games at once". But yes,"we act like children".
RaspberyPhoenix 01-Aug-19 05:47 PM
ohhhhhhhhhhhh epic games????????????????
v01ara 01-Aug-19 05:48 PM
@Icemasta I have no doubt that as soon as epic has fully established itself as a solid competent competitor that all that money will come right back out of devs hands
minimme 01-Aug-19 05:48 PM
the anti epic crowd today be like "I was SUPER looking forward to checks notes Ooblets"
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:48 PM
@mac At the end of the day, they're a business
hmaon 01-Aug-19 05:48 PM
@Icemasta interesting article, thanks. @MeddlesomePixie yeah, they've invested in some tech but I don't see how it means much for devs trying to sell on Steam or their customers
Lucas9 01-Aug-19 05:48 PM
@Brown Beard For you, sure. But I personally don't and will never care about those things.
kseixas 01-Aug-19 05:49 PM
seemaq 01-Aug-19 05:49 PM
lmao switch release sure
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 05:49 PM
@minimme I just want to say I love your videos and keep doin what you're doin
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 05:49 PM
@hmaon Well, put it this way, Supergiant, the devs behind Hades who went full on Steam Exclusive, had no support line and no communication line for their early access title. Took them 3 months to try to find a solution where they ultimate just said "let's all do it via discord" and it's kind of a mess. Also, IIRC subnautica support for the EGS was mostly done through the steam forums. You know, those are paid features that steam provides, that the devs don't pay, and small devs paying that can be quite a bit. The goal for EGS isn't indie devs, they already said that, they want the AAA that already has all the features they need on their website (support, forums, etc...) (edited)
mac 01-Aug-19 05:50 PM
reminder that the EGS doesn't have mod support and no avenue for a developer that hasn't already established strong hype to get their game on the store @minimme nice drive by shitpost fam
fooey 01-Aug-19 05:50 PM
I really enjoy that the blog post is straight up trolling for outrage clicks. How desperate do you have to be to go out of your way to aggravate your potential customers just to get their attention?
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:50 PM
Vita release first. Then Ouya. Then maybe Switch (JPN exclusive through streaming)
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:50 PM
nice meme raekai, but can you shop whatshisface in the foreground of a switch with Three Heroes playing, there's no way I'll be able to wrap up all the routes + DLC before ooblets comes out, especially if astral chain is as good as it looks
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 05:50 PM
Once again I honestly don’t know see why you guys are mad about the Epic exclusivity. Tim’s bought free copies for everyone while also giving the devs money for expected sales. It’s a win win!
Lucas9 01-Aug-19 05:50 PM
@Raekai If only... most likely it would be "Me pirating the Epic release". Suddenly "muh Steam features!!!" aren't THAT important if you decide to pirate the game. See @Abyssmo 's comment. Really makes me wonder if these people have ever played games before Steam existed.
v01ara 01-Aug-19 05:51 PM
@Abyssmo with a sweet bro and hella jeff avatar i cant tell if youre being sarcastic
Chucklenuts 01-Aug-19 05:51 PM
thank you tim epic for paying for my drm free copy of ooblets god bless
Raekai 01-Aug-19 05:51 PM
@iruma cece I'm pumped for Three Houses. I need to finally beat Breath of the Wild first.
kseixas 01-Aug-19 05:51 PM
they just keep delaying everything every month not just page redesign but everything
Snutt 01-Aug-19 05:51 PM
I remember when I was forced to download steam back in the day to play a game and I hated it 😃
Jones 01-Aug-19 05:51 PM
@Abyssmo You are obviously a troll, read into why people actually dislike the epic store in the first place, you clearly would be better of educating you a little bit, before you talk.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 05:51 PM
@Medea "JPN exclusive through streaming" you don't have to do this to me @Snutt surely it had a shopping cart tho, right? (edited)
silveralen 01-Aug-19 05:52 PM
hmm, so no one is gonna bring up tencent and the issues that comes with?
mac 01-Aug-19 05:52 PM
A DRM-free industry would be great but we're just not there right now, and it doesn't really seem to me like epic has any plans to better the situation considering they're trying to pivot from fortnite money into steam money
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 05:52 PM
oh they've been brought up
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:52 PM
glanter
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 05:52 PM
YO do finish BotW asap, that game was fantastic.
v01ara 01-Aug-19 05:53 PM
@Snutt yeah, steam sucked a long time ago, but guess what, you can out the box get a site running with a store and a cart today. its 2019, asking for a store with basic functions is not unheard of. @silveralen oh i wanted to bring up tencent but that'll bring out the "youre just xenophobic" folk.
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 05:53 PM
@v01ara @Lucas9 @Jones Seriously though, if the Devs are already getting payed money for expected sales from Epic as well as other people who actually buy the game, I see no reason why people who are mad about it being exclusive shouldn’t pirate it because “muh it makes me feel guilty because the devs don’t get money.” Technically Epic already has the devs covered before AND after release
fooey 01-Aug-19 05:53 PM
Sweeney himself has said that EGS doesn't have any expectations to actually make money from 3rd party sales. They don't think any game will sell as many copies as they're paying to guarantee.
hmaon 01-Aug-19 05:54 PM
@Icemasta fair points but Steam doesn't seem to care about indies either; their algorithm changes, weird wishlist misstep, and changes to review functionality, i.e. takind away the ability to reply to reviews, have only hurt indie developers
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:54 PM
I'm glad Epic is paying out so much though. Free money for devs~
Snutt 01-Aug-19 05:54 PM
why would you need a shopping cart on epic store if no one's going to buy games from there? 😉
Raekai 01-Aug-19 05:54 PM
mac 01-Aug-19 05:55 PM
maybe people would buy from there if it had absolutely basic 2005-tier store features 😉 (edited)
SyntheticTeapot 01-Aug-19 05:55 PM
noooooo
fooey 01-Aug-19 05:55 PM
I personally wouldn't care if EGS was better than Steam. I won't ever support them because of the way they do business.
v01ara 01-Aug-19 05:56 PM
is there no mods on this sub?
bitowl 01-Aug-19 05:56 PM
@Moderator
silveralen 01-Aug-19 05:56 PM
@v01ara really? Critique of the company literally known to spy on users for China (a fairly awful totalitarian state) shouldn't be labled as xenophobic given its mainly hurting residents of China
Raekai 01-Aug-19 05:56 PM
Hey. My memes are good and I'm proud.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 05:57 PM
@Snutt why would you play games when you can combat climate change instead 😉
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:57 PM
Climate change vs. Epic Game Store shopping cart, which will win?
Snutt 01-Aug-19 05:57 PM
hey @bitowl ❤
mac 01-Aug-19 05:57 PM
thanks for getting that mods cheap gotcha aside my chief problem is with the practice of exclusivity in the first place over the really weird lack of features, so w/e
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 05:57 PM
I’m confused as to what I had just seen.
v01ara 01-Aug-19 05:58 PM
@silveralen I dont understand? I'm xenophobic because i dont like tencent? Or did i misread you this time
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 05:58 PM
@Lucas9, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Lucas9 said: @Abyssmo Here's your reason: because pirating is illegal, and you are not entitled to a game. If moral isn't your thing, here's the logical explanation: Epic's money is fluff money. Say the game doesn't sell one single unit. What does that tell the developers? "Maybe we should quit making videogames." If you've ever given a * about Ooblets, maybe you will realize why that would be a bad thing. I personally care about Obsidian and The Outer Worlds, and it bothers the * out of me that "fans" will pirate the game, completely oblivious and ignorant to how that would bode badly for Obsidian.
bitowl 01-Aug-19 05:58 PM
Hey @Snutt are you just here to troll and promote your dogsht game? Kappa
Pip 01-Aug-19 05:58 PM
@Snutt ❤
Snutt 01-Aug-19 05:59 PM
You know me! I needed to relive the epic drama again. 😃
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 05:59 PM
@Blibber “because pirating is illegal” Not that I entirely disagree with you on your point but that’s never exactly stopped anyone before
silveralen 01-Aug-19 05:59 PM
@v01ara Nah nah, I meant I can't believe people would assume you were xenophobic for that
Medea 01-Aug-19 05:59 PM
oh no, we slow. or not 🐇 (edited)
seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:00 PM
if you can't handle me at my slow mode
v01ara 01-Aug-19 06:00 PM
@silveralen oh believe me, its happened. cant critique them because a)im not chinese, or b) Steam is run by horrible people too
Lucas9 01-Aug-19 06:00 PM
@Abyssmo I'm not saying it will stop pirates. I'm just explaining why it is completely, absolutely, positively justified to frown on people pirating the game just because it went Epic. There's literally no reason, only excuses, as to why pirating Ooblots would be justified.
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 06:01 PM
@hmaon Of what you listed, I'd only agree with the ability to reply to review. Algorithm changes, wishlist issues were fixed quickly, meaning they do care, and review functionality I think is a boon for every developer, indie or not, as it limits review bombing. At the same time, you could say the same about Epic couldn't you? They have a list of things they need to get done that are both consumer and indie friendly and they don't do it. That being said, both have their plusses. EGS gives a better cut to devs, if EGS and Steam co-existed, devs could say "The game is now available on both Steam and EGS, but please buy it for the EGS, we make more moolah". Epic is probably the only company that could compete against steam because of their unreal engine, but I have no idea how adaptable their online API is. Another big thing people forget, steam provides the steam api, steamworks and VAC integration, three big things that indie devs do like and use. I know epic now offers their online API, but I've only seen it used in unreal games, so I dunno about engine. You know it's silly but things like achievements are actually good for player retention (and therefore good for the devs) as it keeps people sticking around to their game for longer.
mac 01-Aug-19 06:01 PM
it's a shame that what's probably going to happen is that the "hey this was a kind of rude and abrasive way of approaching an issue people care about that might have some legitimate concerns therein" criticism is going to get smothered by people outright harassing the developers
Paladin Of Ibuki 01-Aug-19 06:01 PM
Only capital G gamers pirate games because they're too weak to download a free launcher
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:02 PM
it is kind of amazing how much goodwill Epic seems to be burning everywhere, though, for various reasons. All over the internet. Also I still don't get the free launcher meme? I'm sure many of us have the Epic Games launcher installed (doesn't mean I think it's a good value to buy games on there over other stores)
v01ara 01-Aug-19 06:02 PM
@Lucas9 actually yes there is. Steam has many currencies/pricing that Epic does not. Epic does variable pricing whereas most of steam is everyone pays the same price. Am i a pirate? no, but theres reasons
damphy 01-Aug-19 06:03 PM
@Moderator
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:03 PM
Arbys
Raekai 01-Aug-19 06:03 PM
Wow. My memes are way better than @Chucklenuts's. That guy can't meme for 💩.
mac 01-Aug-19 06:03 PM
jesus christ dude
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:03 PM
And that's what most of the arguments have been like all day xD
Lucas9 01-Aug-19 06:03 PM
My personal opinion on the matter: if I could have it my way, I would rather live in a world where Epic Store is king, and Steam is secondary. I'd much rather have developers get money for making the games I love, over me having some features that ultimately don't modify my experience when playing the game. Like I said: user reviews aren't going to make me enjoy a game; cloud saves aren't going to make me enjoy a game; forums aren't going to make me enjoy a game. If the game sucks, no Steam is going to save it. But with extra money, I'm hopeful it leads to better games. @v01ara Sorry, that's still not a reason. It's an excuse. We live in a capitalist world. We either give the money the seller demands, or go home. You don't see me stealing cars just because they are more expensive over here than they are in other countries.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:04 PM
@Paladin Of Ibuki look mate, I'm not spending money on games that goes to a company that assists a police state.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 06:04 PM
@Toasty, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Toasty said: **** can't beleive i've gone this long never having seen goatse before
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 06:04 PM
@Lucas9 you've never had to format or a computer die on you have you? Let me tell you that it was a pain in the ass to find every god damn save location to make sure I didn't forget a game. I still got old folders of save back up, there's like 100+ games in there that I had to keep track of their location. Also the last part is trickle down economy, which doesn't really work. If a company makes more money, the investors will just make more money, the budget won't change. If it costs 150$ to make something, they won't pay 200$ to make it. (edited)
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:04 PM
real games game at 30 FPS
Paladin Of Ibuki 01-Aug-19 06:05 PM
@silveralen understandable, Chinese overlord rumours have been debunked many times but that's okay
v01ara 01-Aug-19 06:06 PM
@Icemasta also literally not being able tp purchase games is a problem for many foreign folk but nope, piracy is always a bad thing
lonewookie 01-Aug-19 06:06 PM
Y'all still going in here?
April Ham Lincoln 01-Aug-19 06:06 PM
I think you guys need to realize that at the end of the day, these devs need to make money. This is their first game and they probably had no idea how much of a financial burden it would be on them. I'm bummed that they are going with epic, sure, but I don't think it's something to attack them over. They are real people and without them we wouldn't have this game at all.
Cathu 01-Aug-19 06:06 PM
Does anyone know if anyone told microsoft that they want to go epic exclusive tho? They are pretty hard on their xbox+pc store atm (edited)
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:06 PM
China #1 (edited)
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:06 PM
Microsoft just bought exclusivity over Ninja
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 06:07 PM
They aren't affiliated with Double fine anymore, so no issue there with Microsoft.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:07 PM
@Paladin Of Ibuki what? Tencent owns 40% of Epic, so I presume some portion of the money I spend (I would assume 40% but who knows) goes to them, correct? I take issue with funding tencent, I'm unowwired with Tencent spying on me via epic
TheMintedLady 01-Aug-19 06:08 PM
I just wanna know what the timeframe of exclusivity will be. I'm glad they got the money to increase their productivity, but I have a personal preference for Steam, and would just like to know how long I may have to wait after the Epic release to buy it on my storefront of choice.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:08 PM
where is this "the devs were harassed" meme coming from?
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:08 PM
@TheMintedLady my guess is at least a year (edited)
v01ara 01-Aug-19 06:08 PM
@seemaq heck, we've been harrassing each other more than the devs.
Lucas9 01-Aug-19 06:08 PM
@Icemasta I can't say 100+ saves would be something I would worry about, no. First because anything videogame related would be the least of my problems if my computer were to die on me. Second because I don't play 100 games at a time: I usually play up to five, and even then I uninstall them (including saves) when I'm done with them. And thus formatting my computer and backing those saves beforehand is a non-issue.
Raekai 01-Aug-19 06:08 PM
@TheMintedLady Same. Unfortunately, all they can say is that it's "milestone-based".
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:08 PM
It's was people from earlier. They've disappeared mostly.
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 06:09 PM
@April Ham Lincoln So the people getting tortured, starving and what not from human right abuse aren't real? It's okay for them to use them as the butt of their joke?
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:09 PM
@TheMintedLady I'd presume a year, it appears every deal we've so far has been a year, correct? Nothing longer than that that I have seen
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:10 PM
why are you complaining that im pirating your game and seeding it? ughh maybe start worrying about the climate more instead????
TheMintedLady 01-Aug-19 06:10 PM
That's what I assume, but the blog said something like "for a while", which makes me think it'll take longer than the standard year of other games I'm gonna have to wait for. Everyone else has just said the year outrght.
Paladin Of Ibuki 01-Aug-19 06:10 PM
@Abyssmo this but unironically
Cathu 01-Aug-19 06:10 PM
I can worry about more than one thing at a time 🙃
seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:10 PM
@TheMintedLady soonish lmao
v01ara 01-Aug-19 06:11 PM
@silveralen you know what game lost exclusivity and it got a huge popularity boost because of it? Destiny
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 06:11 PM
It’s probably going to be a better game now that they have more money and less fear of failure. It’s just on a worse launcher. Is that the general consensus or am I missing something
hmaon 01-Aug-19 06:11 PM
@Icemasta I know Steam said they've corrected their algorithms but last I heard discovery rates never recovered, perhaps due to some sort of data poisoning. Yes, EGS has a lot of features to implement and I do like to display achievements on my Steam profile. I wouldn't ask devs to stick around on Steam though. I still don't think Valve has done enough to show they'll support indie devs in the future. I've heard indies talk about struggling (like here https://twitter.com/unormal/status/1092269343558303744 or here https://twitter.com/Enichan/status/1108461008115458050 ) but nothing about numbers on Steam looking up recently. Releasing on Steam apparently guarantees nothing.
8th highest rated early access game on https://t.co/k4raQFHbks with 1,453 reviews! Still a struggle to make a living; should have just made a good game as r/gamedev suggests! 😂
Likes
103
@awesomeThief the problem is valve tweaked their steam algorithm in october-december in a way that's killing a lot of indies
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AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:11 PM
I think epic pay them upfront for projected sales and epic just makes the money back through storefront sales like normal. The devs won't make money from those sales until the advance pay cheque is paid off. So if they get enough sales to hit that upfront cost before a year etc, maybe that will allow them to move to steam etc sooner? Not sure to be honest.
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:12 PM
The issue is indie game dev is competitive, especially if you don't have word of mouth or good marketing. That isn't magic. Epic has NO discoverability/recommendation algorithms, just artificial scarcity (for now) I'm pretty sure Sweeney even said that the point of EGS is for people to already know what they want when they get there (edited)
TheMintedLady 01-Aug-19 06:13 PM
I think it'll at least get produced faster, @LittleTub. It sounded like there's only around three peoole working on it and with the money from Epic, they can hire more hands.
v01ara 01-Aug-19 06:14 PM
@LittleTub basically, just a lot of semantics and diatribe. discussing things is fun also @Medea this is what people dont get. this is going to wokr for a while, but epic cant/wont keep pumping money into tiny projects like ooblets. this is for attention/store superiority and thats it
SkyShard 01-Aug-19 06:14 PM
I believe they said that the initial release of the game may be delayed slightly because they now have the funds to develop better, which would take some getting used to
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 06:14 PM
I’ve been against most other epic game exclusives but for a small game with a tiny studio, getting a bunch of money in exchange for being epic exclusive is fine imo
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:15 PM
@v01ara I'll be curious to see how their strategy evolves and how long they'll keep at it
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 06:15 PM
@Medea nails it. Indie Developers were all but singing Queen-esque choral praises for the Nintendo eShop when the system launched to amazing success. Where are those voices now? Releasing their games on other platforms. The eShop has butts for discoverability, is functionally worse than even the EGS, because there are so many games on the platform, and sifting through it all to find a game is awful. Flat out AWFUL.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:15 PM
when do you think the devs will respond? i'm not very active in the discord and i assume they won't send another e-mail
hmaon 01-Aug-19 06:15 PM
The business of making indie games has always been difficult, but recently it's become a lot harder. On October 5th, Valve introduced changes to Steam's algorithms that resulted in less traffic to many games that aren't top sellers.
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 06:15 PM
@hmaon I would like to know how it is steam's fault that he didn't sell many copies though? Ignoring exclusivity, what would being on Epic provide more? Also, are you aware that Epic actually curates much harder than Steam or even GoG? That game probably wouldn't have made it on the EGS anyways, so I could argue that while he only stole a couple thousand copies on Steam (which brings question to the quality of his game), he probably would have sold none on Epic. To me, what you linked are indie devs complaining about having no PR or marketing and not wanting to invest in it and wanting steam to do all that for them. Look at Iron Harvest (which I hope to god won't be exclusive but most likely will), they do AMAs, they have community managers going around on reddit and social platforms posting stuff and responding weekly. They've had their posts on the front page of gaming subreddits many times a month (edited)
Lucas9 01-Aug-19 06:15 PM
@Abyssmo Unlike you, I don't spend all my wake hours complaining at a company's decision. That's probably what the Ooblets blog post was about.
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:16 PM
K
Cathu 01-Aug-19 06:16 PM
COQ isnt a game that everyone would enjoy, its a very niche game. Which naturally heavily limits its sales Its like saying Dwarf fortress not becoming the #1 game of all time on steam on release is because of the algorithm (edited)
TheTimeWinder 01-Aug-19 06:17 PM
Just to throw a random two cents in here, I see the Patreon backers as the investors, then Epic have just come on as a bigger investor and overridden a big expectation of most from what we'd already been told
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 06:18 PM
Is corporate greed all developers care about anymore?
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:18 PM
money is nice (they'd be crazy not to take it tbh) (edited)
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:18 PM
You say that is if they never cared about it in the first place
Snutt 01-Aug-19 06:19 PM
no we care about making better games, and these types of deals lead to that
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seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:19 PM
💸 💸 💸
LennArt 01-Aug-19 06:19 PM
Omg Snutt i love your game!! And i also agree (edited)
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 06:19 PM
Also, if I can bring another point about Steam and Epic shares that people forget, although it is kinda understandable. Steam allows devs to generate keys, which charges nothing, for them to sell and retain 100% of the revenue. That being said, that means the devs need : A website and a safe and working transaction system and having to deal with charge backs. (edited)
Snagglewolf 01-Aug-19 06:19 PM
Yeah this couldn't possibly be about this small team securing their future. They're in the lucrative indie game scene. So easy to make money.
Tiroulsa 01-Aug-19 06:20 PM
I totally get you on the money leading to better games but what about the end user who downloads your product and wants a cohesive experience between storefront and your game.
Jones 01-Aug-19 06:20 PM
@Lucas9#3154 Yeah, you just spend time defending someone who literarily, and at the same time you say you'd be "fine" with having it worse. Not to mention multiple devs now, promising their backers one thing, and then straight up betraying their trust. @Snagglewolf Hey, if the game is good, it would sell. I'd say that's a more ethical way of securing your future 😂 (edited)
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 06:20 PM
🙃 so.. profitable.. working.. in... indie games /twitch
mac 01-Aug-19 06:20 PM
also i think it's worth noting that epic's much stricter selection process for games means that if you're just some random jackoff making a niche game that hasn't generated a lot of interest yet it's going to be a lot harder to get your game on epic than steam I'm used to typing fragmented posts (edited)
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:21 PM
@jmarieray probably pays better than being in cancer research (god, I hope so)
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 06:21 PM
@MaidenOfTheMain, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@MaidenOfTheMain said: The sort of exclusivity Epic is doing is making the consumer suffer more. There are a number of things that EGS doesn't offer compared to Steam. The developers for Ooblets only cared for sucking the **** of Epic inc. Also not to mention that EGS has ties to Tencent, a Chinese company who's known to spy on US citizens with their software, really makes ya think 🙃
hmaon 01-Aug-19 06:21 PM
@Icemasta How many people see the game in their recommendations is entirely on Steam. Do they want to seem like they're a good place to launch a game? Steam's lack of curation has had a questionable effect on the quality of their storefront for consumers whereas Epic's harsh curation could be a boon for anyone who does get to launch there. If someone does have a choice of launching on Steam to potentially no Steam revenue and taking Epic's Fortnite money to also no Steam revenue, I can't recommend the first option.
Snagglewolf 01-Aug-19 06:21 PM
@Jones if you actually believe a good game automatically equals a successful game man I don't know what to tell you. What a nice world that would be.
☠ 1
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 06:21 PM
@Jones things change. And no, you won’t necessarily make lots of money if you make a good game
Snutt 01-Aug-19 06:22 PM
@LennArt ❤
seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:22 PM
developer destroys Gamers with facts and logic
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:22 PM
Independence War 2: Edge of Chaos was a great game but not met a single person in my travels yet that has heard of it xD
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:22 PM
@Cathu Yeah gonna second this, COQ is a lot of fun but it manages to be both niche due to the almost ascii level graphics while also being in the fairly oversaturated roguelike indie genre
Jones 01-Aug-19 06:23 PM
@Snagglewolf Hey, you know what they say, one mans treasure is another mans garbage, but i'm sure the sucess and hard work of people before, just came down to dumb luck.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 06:23 PM
@MaidenOfTheMain, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@MaidenOfTheMain said: Also not to mention, the announcement was a total * slap to their fan base. Developers, if human labor laws and climate change are much more important, why don't you guys stop development and go work to make those things better.
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 06:23 PM
@hmaon Yeah but hte person you linked wouldn't have gotten on Epic anyways. Plus, have you actually been on the EGS? Here, go look: https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US
Fortnite Battle Royale
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 06:23 PM
@v01ara, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@v01ara said: @silveralen I love COQ but * it was never gonna be in the top 10 indie games unless some miracle happened which it did
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:24 PM
China has and always will be #1 😎
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:24 PM
everybody needs to try some COQ at least once in their lives
mac 01-Aug-19 06:24 PM
this is such a poorly designed storefront aaaa
seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:24 PM
thats why gamedev should be a hobby
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 06:24 PM
@Jones there is a significant amount of luck involved lmao.
💯 3
TheMintedLady 01-Aug-19 06:25 PM
I'm honestly kinda bummed because I have had the game in my Steam wishlist for literally two years now (just checked and I added it on June 17 of 2017), and have been patiently waiting for a release date, or even a chance to pre order. But now I'm going to have to wait even longer than the release date because I prefer Steam. Not mad, just disappointed.
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 06:25 PM
I mean if you wanna be ruled under a strict Communist system where human labor camps are present along with a credit system that'll prevent you from getting the basic needs all because you talked bad about the government. Sure I want those guys spying on what I do.
Tiroulsa 01-Aug-19 06:26 PM
I think ultimately at the end of the day, contractually the devs here I imagine cant speak negatively about epic and until their exclusive contract is up nothing can be done sadly to change what storefront their on, so its just a waiting game.
Snagglewolf 01-Aug-19 06:26 PM
@Jones I don't recall making that point. I pretty clearly was making the point that quality doesn't = sales and pretending it does is living in a fantasy world. I'll give you an example off the top of my head. Cellar Door makes Rogue Legacy. Hugely successful, everyone loves it. Releases Full Metal Furies, an extremely well made beat em up. Fails big time. That's a known dev with an established history. But sure, all you need to do is make a good game right? (edited)
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 06:26 PM
@hmaon At best, 3 or 4 games are shown at the top. There is no recommendation/discovery system. There are no ways to filter games by genre or type. If you aren't in the top few games, odds are people are gonna miss it, as the store increases in size, and for instance, 1 week after this game is released on epic, it's gonna take like 15 scroll of the wheel to find this game buried under 100s of other games. How is that for discovery? I got nothing against Epic but let's be honest (edited)
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:26 PM
@TheMintedLady it stings, but stays strong. The game will still be there and we'll have plenty of other things to play, too @Snagglewolf what happened to Full Metal Furies was a tragedy, though I thought the game was called Full Metal FURRIES at first and stayed away (edited)
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 06:26 PM
important question: why is no one talking about epic https://www.epic.com/
Founded in a basement in 1979, Epic develops software to help people get well, help people stay well, and help future generations be healthier.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:26 PM
@hmaon I will point out steam does at least have a very robust search feature with tags, which cna be helpful for people looking for particular genres. I've found a number of games that way
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:26 PM
@MaidenOfTheMain yeah but... Chinas #1 🇨🇳 Based Tim
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 06:26 PM
If you think the only thing keeping them from spying on you is that you haven downloaded EGS, you’re very naive
CobalTech 01-Aug-19 06:27 PM
@LittleTub heyo tub!
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:27 PM
We've been talking about Epic for hours.
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 06:27 PM
@LittleTub I hate the US government spying on me too, along with Discord and Google and all the other companies who do it. It's one of the reasons why I hate EGS.
Snagglewolf 01-Aug-19 06:28 PM
@Medea yeah I think the marketing was one of the reasons it didn't do well, they've even said so. Real bummer it was a rad game.
Ivory 01-Aug-19 06:28 PM
@Sanicrossei very true, thanks tim
hmaon 01-Aug-19 06:28 PM
@Icemasta yeah, I mean, I've looked at it. I have to use the launcher for UE4 already. It's got games, they all seem good. Yeah, it has no discoverability features, and everyone was disappointed to hear it iirc. Still, there's Fortnite money. You can probably release on other platforms later. @whoever, If COQ seems too niche, see how your favorite sub-1% indie game is doing instead, I guess. I know what unormal said because that's who I follow.
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:28 PM
“This ones on me, lads.” - Tim Sweeney How can one man be so generous? (edited)
LennArt 01-Aug-19 06:28 PM
How do people feel about the fact thatTencent Holdings has invested money into Discord?
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 06:28 PM
@iruma cece, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@iruma cece said: I think the most ridiculous thing are developers who complain about discoverability as though this is a very new concern that hasn't affected entertainment media UNTIL NOW. Where the **** is Freespace 3? Oh right, Freespace 1 and 2 sold like garbage. On top of being a genre comparatively few people enjoy, it basically had nothing to push it in terms of marketing outside of kind word of mouth. Discoverability is always going to be an issue, no matter what your platform is or how good your game is.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:28 PM
it's okay when china does it
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:29 PM
still got "several people are typing..." after all this time!
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:29 PM
Welcome back plamps aha.
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 06:29 PM
@AhadielGames but not a single person has mentioned how they helped reduce fall related injuries by a third
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 06:29 PM
Look devs, if you're reading this, gamers aren't a fan of EGS due to the huge lacking of features compared to Steam, and that any devs only hop onto EGS is due to greed. And specifically they're mad at you guys because you were such dicks making that "announcement". So if people start pirating Ooblets, just know it was your guys' faults for not sticking with Steam.
benhaa 1
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:29 PM
i'm admittedly a bit lost as to where we're up to
Snutt 01-Aug-19 06:30 PM
you think slowmode is gonna stop me from showing support? No way.
💯 3
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:30 PM
I think if you're threatening to pirate something because a store doesn't have all the features you want, I really can't help you
Zync 01-Aug-19 06:30 PM
@Sanicrossei not wrong tbh
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:31 PM
I honestly don't think you'll like Ooblets as a game if that's the sort of person you are
☝ 4
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:31 PM
Famous last words @perplamps R.I.P kind sir @Sanicrossei based
seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:31 PM
lmao it took you so many hours for this
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:31 PM
it's gonna trigger you way worse
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 06:31 PM
@Icemasta, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Icemasta said: @hmaon Oh my points were not about the exclusivity, that's fine for the devs, any company would make the exact same decision, ****, it would be stupid not to from a company's perspective. Good will doesn't put food on the table. I was just responding to your points about Epic being friendly to Indie, it is not, they've said it times and again that their objective is to mostly publish AAA games, provide as little feature as possible to cut costs, since most AAA companies already have their own website with forums and support staff. But as it is, for an indie dev, if you don't have an exclusivity deal, don't go there.
hmaon 01-Aug-19 06:31 PM
@perplamps I've had to block several people, which I've never had to do on any server before. It also turns out that several people won't buy a game on EGS. That's the recap, I think.
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:31 PM
"trigger"? c'mon
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 06:31 PM
As someone else said had this on wishlist for years. These exclusives make me feel that I as a customer do not matter. I do not like Epic and their 'holier than thou' gimmick, and the only reason I know of these games is because I saw them on steam. You shouldn;'t keep the game on steam for advertising purposes if you are leaving those of us that want to choose where we play out in the cold.
ABCelestial 01-Aug-19 06:31 PM
It's been hours. Yes trigger.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:31 PM
@LennArt it isn't an issue for me because they can't get that sort of information with merely an investment, they aren't getting private information from EGS as I already said. The issue comes if you actively fund a companypartially owned by Tencent, and thus fund them. Then again im unclear how discord veen makes money so I guess im supporting tencent by being here? maybe?
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 06:31 PM
@LennArt it’s alright when discord does it because reasons. Hi @CobalTech @MaidenOfTheMain they’re doing it for money to live, not “corporate greed” lmao. There’s no guarantee they’d make enough money just releasing on steam.
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:32 PM
@perplamps Essentially people don't like the sense of humour you used and saw it instead as condescending etc. That seems to be the biggest issue out of the lot. Not too fussed personally. I use EGS anyway. (edited)
CobalTech 01-Aug-19 06:32 PM
I have several problems with the EGS announcement, but pirating a game is never okay imo. You're just being petty
TheMintedLady 01-Aug-19 06:32 PM
Yeah, I guess, @Medea. I will also say that I too was a little put off by the tone of the announcement, though to be fair I don't regularly read the blogs so I wasn't aware that was his "standard tone". But lately, so many of the games I've had on wishlist at Steam for long stretches have suddenly made Epic exclusivity announcements. It just gets disheartening, especially when it sounds like a Game Dev is generalizing and brushing off your feelings.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:33 PM
I can keep replying about the tencent stuff, but I don't think you folks are really following that issue
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:33 PM
@ABCelestial sorry, I just don't like alt-right dog whistles in general
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 06:33 PM
@perplamps as Gabe Newell said, "Piracy is a platform problem". I am not encouraging people to pirate Ooblets, I'm simply saying that the risk of alienating your fan base will result in a huge profit loss despite having more support from EGS in terms of monetary payout. Also you should be replying about the Tencent stuff. @LittleTub So monopolies are alright in your eyes only if they support "independent creators". Yeah, sure.
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 06:33 PM
Then they should remove it from Steam until its released there, no need to use steam for advertising if the players there are an after thought.
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 06:34 PM
Ah good, "triggered" jokes.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:34 PM
we'd definitely remove the store page from steam if that's what they'd like
seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:34 PM
you sound like the guy who greets you at city 17
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:34 PM
we're buds with the folks at steam
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 06:34 PM
@MaidenOfTheMain are you saying epic is going to have a monopoly or what? I’m confused. A monopoly would be steam existing with 0 competition
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:34 PM
and they're really great with us
mac 01-Aug-19 06:34 PM
@perplamps I think the quickest rundown is "the deal is understandable if disagreeable, the tone of the post felt like it was brushing concerns under the rug in a sort of rude and dismissive way, whatever the intent"
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:35 PM
I wonder if the people who pirate games because they feel they were wronged by a company would walk into a dealership and steal a car because the company lied about emissions etc.
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:35 PM
Honest question though, why doesn’t Epic buy more AAA games? You’d think that would be a bigger priority since it rakes in waaaay more customers compared to indie games? Seriously, what are they planning? What’s holding them back from buying more AAA stuff?
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:35 PM
@perplamps I'm somewhat interested in your views on choosing to help fund a company that has assisted a violent police state, up to an including helping Chinese Muslims be arrested for "excessive shows of faith", given your apparent belief we need to focus on "important things"
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 06:36 PM
@LittleTub I mean having a majority of exclusives would more or less be a monopoly. And if you're gonna argue that Nintendo does the same thing, they make their own games so they have the right to have it as an exclusive. Just like how Fortnite is an EGS exclusive.
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 06:36 PM
If the Epic Game Store is so great, why isn't there an Epic Game Store 2?
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:36 PM
ok so on tencent, I won't go into this again-- but if you think an investor has control over a platform and will steal all your data, that's just not how things work. If that's a legitimate concern for you, look into who funds/owns Discord, Reddit, and most other games. Also, look into the public info about Steam for China and try to imagine how that partnership might be working.
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:36 PM
@Sanicrossei they can't; NDA agreement
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:37 PM
@silveralen see above comment
Brightside 01-Aug-19 06:37 PM
@Abyssmo In answer to your question, AAA games can cost orders of magnitude more to make and maintain that indie games. It depends on the game, but if you look at an indie game built by 2-4 devs over the course of 3 years vs. a AAA game built by 50-100 devs over the same time, the cost can add up rather quickly.
not_so_gladiator 01-Aug-19 06:37 PM
@perplamps you should set up a FAQ channel to direct repeated questions to!
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 06:37 PM
@MaidenOfTheMain I don’t think you know what a monopoly is lmfao.
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 06:37 PM
At this point there are so many games that it doesn't hurt to write several off if they go against what you as a consumer feel is right or not. I just cannot get my self to use Epic after seeing their stance on things, and if the games never come to GOG or Steam, or several of the other stores then its gone for me.
TheMintedLady 01-Aug-19 06:37 PM
Indie titles are probably cheaper, @Abyssmo. But from a personal stance, I find Indie titles a lot more up my alley than most AAA games nowadays. I'm more likely to buy them.
Ivory 01-Aug-19 06:38 PM
i think devs that think the "outrage" is coming from people that "wouldnt buy the game anyway" is just an out so they dont have to feel bad about alienating customers who want choice, its rather distasteful, but if you want to go that route then good luck, people will reflect that, dont be mad at the people for wanting choice, simply tell it how it is, you want security so you took tiny timmys bag of swag over you not believing in yout game selling on steam
hmaon 01-Aug-19 06:38 PM
"Sweeney is the controlling shareholder of Epic Games, and Tencent is not. " https://www.pcgamer.com/tim-sweeney-does-not-take-any-orders-from-tencent-says-epic/
Epic sounds a bit tired of the narrative that one of its investors runs the show.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:38 PM
@perplamps that... is not a worry of mine, nor was it a source of criticism from me. I am aware tencent isn't stealing information from EGS. they however, do actively aid the Chinese government by providing information from things they have full access to, and purchasing a game via EGS would provide them financial support, yes?
Deadly Penguin 01-Aug-19 06:38 PM
Hey Perp, honest question, do you think that with the current deal you're gonna be able to add more to the game? or did the deal just help you to get to where you already had planned?
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:38 PM
@silveralen did you read the rest of my comment?
mac 01-Aug-19 06:38 PM
i think people are focusing too much on the"epic is a chinese spy front" and not enough on "exclusivity deals are kind of inherently anti-consumer and we're entering risky territory if they ever become publicly acceptable"
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:39 PM
@silveralen are you going after/boycotting Discord, Reddit, Steam, too?
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:39 PM
@perplamps business question. Not sure if you're under NDA about details: Is the payment more of an advance paychque, and if they make up that advance in store sales then you have a clause to exit exclusivity early, or is it more like a signing bonus?
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 06:39 PM
I love that people type furiously even with the time limit haha
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:39 PM
@AhadielGames it's a minimum guarantee but we have some upfront money and the rest is through a milestone system
Ivory 01-Aug-19 06:40 PM
everyone boycotted skype for discord already because..... hey wanna know why everyone moved to discord???? you wanna know the secret behind discord? its a better platform
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 06:40 PM
@bruh Exactly, its not like it used to be when an exclusive meant people just had to go buy it anyway. I've taken quite a few games off my wishlist for going to epic, and added just as many in their place to keep me happy. But still, im sure im not the only one that has lost interest in what could be some good titles
20_Bucks 01-Aug-19 06:40 PM
@perplamps it's not about Tencent. It never really was, you are just useing misdirection to shift blame. If you dont get that at this point I dont think you ever will.
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 06:40 PM
@perplamps I should also say Steam isn't a perfect platform, no platform is. However it is the much more superior platform compared to EGS. My regard for Tencent and Epic is apart of the problem, with the main one being screwing over consumers and favoring developers. @LittleTub Buying third party games up and having them exclusive to your platform creates a situation where you start to become a monopoly.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:40 PM
@perplamps I also do not directly fund discord (im not even clear how discord makes money), I do not use reddit regardless, and Steam has never openly assisted the Chinese government in the way Tencent has, at least I can't find record of it as I can with Tencent, such as the aformentioned arrests
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:40 PM
you guys can't keep bringing up arguments and then when i address it you say i'm misdirecting by not answering about all things at once
i can discuss the tencent thing specifically and in detail
seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:41 PM
ok adress the other points then
mac 01-Aug-19 06:41 PM
boy this really isn't a good forum to have a sound discussion, devs getting ten questions on different topics his way at once
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:41 PM
i can also discuss the anti-consumer angle specifically and in-detail
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 06:41 PM
@bruh, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@bruh said: b-but steam was ** more than 10 years ago! It's not like we have better standards now! Anyways,why keep talking about this when people are dying in chinese concentration camps 🤔
Icemasta 01-Aug-19 06:41 PM
@hmaon He doesn't have the most shining track record in term of trustworthiness, the man is a salesman more than anything. This link here is a bit more comprehensive https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/fortnite-epic-games-billion-dollar-decision-1202884194/ He is still the majority share owner of Epic with over 50% shares (probably 50%+1), Tencent is at 40% (edited)
The surging success of “Fortnite” and its monumentally popular battle royale mode helped transform the already successful game developer and game engine creator Epic Games into a compan…
Gr1d 01-Aug-19 06:41 PM
Hot take: the Chinese backing attack is mild xenophobia Cooler take: I think it's a fine move and I'm not bothered by it. This isn't hurting anything.
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 06:41 PM
@MaidenOfTheMain I hate when people say this to me in an argument, but I genuinely think you should refresh yourself on what a monopoly is.
Deadly Penguin 01-Aug-19 06:42 PM
Guys, Tencent owns more things than you can possibly imagine, i wouldn't be surprised if they got money every time you bought a piece of bubblegum, if you want to treat them like the boogieman and not support them at all, prepare to let a lot of stuff go
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:42 PM
like, i asked specifically if you guys wanted me to reply AGAIN about tencent and you said yes
and then got angry when i did
Brightside 01-Aug-19 06:42 PM
@perplamps the FAQ seems like a good idea for this; seems like lots of folks are coming in later and not reading the scrollback.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:42 PM
and you had no counter arguments about it
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:43 PM
Tencent is just an investment company. Sort of like how some companies solely buy out patents and earn through royalty.
20_Bucks 01-Aug-19 06:43 PM
@perplamps it was always about how you addressed the fans, and then how you completely disrespected them.
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 06:43 PM
@perplamps have you even seen the list of features EGS doesn't have compared to Steam? Lack of friends list, wish lists, buying multiple games at once, Linux support, and I can go on forever about it. https://preview.redd.it/u6muqif6w1q21.jpg?width=376&auto=webp&s=61e591dd56c0b305b29b03ac7d63aaff069078fd @LittleTub You're arguing from the perspective of the developers, correct? Are the developers more important to you compared to the consumers?
Ivory 01-Aug-19 06:43 PM
"Steam is a monopoly because it has all da game on it and epic cant have all da games too because people will just yoos da steam store becaus it better in every way so epic need to buy da games to help, steam has da eclusiv so why cant epic hav da eclusiv"
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 06:43 PM
@bruh, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@bruh said: not supporting cruel governments = xenophobia? dumb *** take
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:43 PM
@perplamps I believe I did actually give a counter argument, given Tencent and Steams actions aren't compareable and cited evidence in that regard, but alrigh
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 06:43 PM
I have no questions about the Tencent thing. I just feel upset that Steam was used to give feedback and get people hyped then the game was proverbially yanked away for an indefinite amount of time.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:43 PM
well which was it, my tone, tencent, anti-consumerism, you guys keep moving the goal posts because you don't have any meat to your arguments
mac 01-Aug-19 06:43 PM
you're talking to a lot of people at once with a ton of different things going through their heads. people have a lot of different reasons for being okay/not okay with this, I'm not sure this is the best forum for you to answer all of these questions alone, i feel like it might just lead to mutual frustration
Sasquatch 01-Aug-19 06:43 PM
all of the above cheers
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:44 PM
@silveralen look at Steam for China. Who picks what games will be allowed in Steam for China?
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:44 PM
In all honestly I’d have no qualms with Epic Tencent if they’d jUST RELEASE THE MONSTER HUNTER ONLINE MMO OUTSIDE OF CHINA
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:44 PM
Who is their partner to allow them to operate Steam for China?
all games run through Tencent in China
@Sanicrossei you've legit not has a single argument or point to make this entire time
April Ham Lincoln 01-Aug-19 06:44 PM
@perplamps Were you guys close to having to scrap the game without this deal? I don't mean this in an accusatory way, just genuinely curious. I'm really looking forward to playing Ooblets.
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 06:44 PM
@Sanicrossei epic actual addition to the discussion bro
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:44 PM
you're just trolling and adding nothing to the discussion
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 06:44 PM
the problem @mac is that they already are publicly acceptable, now on PC if this Discord is anything to go by. @perplamps got their money, just like the Phoenix Point devs, and they don't have to care about what those rascally gamers say if they aren't 100% in support of them. I wouldn't have cared, and would have waited patiently, if the tone of the post wasn't "Heh, concerned about EGS exclusivity? How about worrying about the REAL ISSUES, kid." Instead, I've removed the game from my wishlist. I won't pirate it, like you might even be seconds away from accusing me of being ready to do.
Deadly Penguin 01-Aug-19 06:45 PM
an FAQ sounds like an amazing idea right now because i see people bring up points we talked about like 5 hours ago
Ivory 01-Aug-19 06:45 PM
@Abyssmo brother, they closed MHO and MHFZ is closing this year, MHW is now king and EPIC wont be getting that because Dauntless would literally die a slower death than it already is lmfao
Zync 01-Aug-19 06:45 PM
Last I checked, partnering with a company that you are essentially required to in order to release games in a region is significantly less of a concern than said company owning a 40% stake in your company
The Sin Cave ™ 01-Aug-19 06:45 PM
FAQ 👌
Gr1d 01-Aug-19 06:45 PM
This is throwing a cup of water into a wildfire. I sincerely appreciate you stepping in and taking the heat, but the best move would be an FAQ and some radio silence on the matter. I think you are fairly approaching the matter but Gamers™ like their outrage. Quite honestly in a year or two's time no one will really remember or care that things were exclusive.
20_Bucks 01-Aug-19 06:45 PM
@perplamps there are many people talking at you at once there has never been goalpost movement. Address them one at a time or not at all. Stop trying to use a smoke screen to through out nonanswers
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:45 PM
If a studio ever intends to make more games, expansions etc then of course they need to care about what we think. Some people are just unreasonable.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:45 PM
@perplamps that is.... not really comparable to spying on the private conversations of citizen to have them arrested. Which Tencent has done. Again, the rather well known Muslim crackdown that occurred is an example.
mac 01-Aug-19 06:45 PM
no 2 minute timer would be a madhouse let's be real, chat is already going fast
DoobieTheHouseElf 01-Aug-19 06:46 PM
The funny thing is I'm just gonna buy the game and nothing bad will happen. The end.
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 06:46 PM
@perplamps ffs it's all of it. How long will it take for you to get it through your head that EGS was a bad idea? Stop avoiding the main problems and address them directly. It is your job as a developer to support the community.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:46 PM
@silveralen where are you getting this stuff in relation to Epic?
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 06:47 PM
@Abyssmo, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Abyssmo said: @Ivory “brother, they closed MHO and MHFZ is closing this year” On one hand I’m glad MHW will continue to be on top but on the other hand I just wanna fight Taikun Zamuza and Estrellian ffs **** you, Tencent.
Brightside 01-Aug-19 06:47 PM
@perplamps if you'd like some help making an FAQ on a Google Doc or something while you're answering questions here, I'd be happy to help out. I've got a bit of experience with community management.
hmaon 01-Aug-19 06:47 PM
@Icemasta Well, I dunno. I trust him as much as the next rich CEO but I don't get what in that series of decisions I'm supposed to focus on. Maybe taking the Tencent investment is a bad look? It's really worked out for Epic though obviously.
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 06:47 PM
I would like to know why we arent having a game released on several platforms at once. Just one. There must be a reason yes? People need to think why this isnt allowed, and the answer is why the customers are upset
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 06:47 PM
If you’re so vehemently against launcher exclusives, why are you using Discord, whose games store has done several timed exclusives (edited)
Bexe 01-Aug-19 06:47 PM
if you engage in society how can you possibly criticise it
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:48 PM
@perplamps Epic games is owned 40% by Tencent, so any money spent in the epic store does, at least in part, go on to fund Tencent.
mac 01-Aug-19 06:48 PM
@perplamps from what I can see steam operates in china through perfect world, not tencent, and in fact, tencent directly competes with them through their own client?
Mashuu 01-Aug-19 06:48 PM
last I checked they owned like 48.6%
seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:48 PM
@Bexe 👌 cause star-bellies took our emotes (edited)
Ivory 01-Aug-19 06:48 PM
@Abyssmo tencent own Estrellian sadly, they boy is getting vaulted for life, feelsbadman
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:48 PM
@silveralen in the same way they are tied to Discord, Reddit, AND Steam
there's only one way to operate a game store in china, and it's through the chinese government
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 06:49 PM
@MaidenOfTheMain To be fair (to be fair, to be faiiiiiiiir), it's not actually @perplamps job to support the community, it's to develop the game they want to develop. That doesn't make the blog post actually a good thing. It doesn't make it any less condescending, it doesn't change the fact that it assumed that anyone who is upset about is a hastag GAMER™ of the worst sort. This wouldn't even be half as big as it is if the post just admitted that indie dev is a hard life, and the deal makes it so that they can keep making the game they want without worrying about rent, and left it at that.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:49 PM
I'm not sure why that's hard to understand
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:49 PM
@Ivory I no longer favor China now. I hate Tencent and Epic even more now.
Snutt 01-Aug-19 06:49 PM
Tencent is literally the biggest gaming company in the world. If you spend money on games, one way or another, you're likely to indirectly give them money.
LennArt 01-Aug-19 06:49 PM
@Snutt I still remember the Satisfactory EGS fallout, you guys handled that great (Jace <3 x 1000) Props to @perplamps for being upfront and communicative (also kinda insane, I'd go mad trying to 😂). (edited)
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Eisberg 01-Aug-19 06:49 PM
@Mashuu Tencent bought 48% of the outstanding shares of the company back in 2012, which was equal to 40% of the total shares. The outstanding shares did not equal to 100% of the shares
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 06:50 PM
@Bexe nice meme. But these people talking about timed exclusives while using a platform with timed exclusives seems bizarre. And a little more niche than the “how can you complain about capitalism when you live in a capitalist society”
Zync 01-Aug-19 06:50 PM
@perplamps why do you keep equating a 40% ownership stake with a partnership to distribute games in China. They aren't even close to the same thing.
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 06:50 PM
Oh, I feel horrible for the devs having to handle all this. But I also feel it isn't fair to simply lose interest in something and not tell someone why.
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 06:50 PM
I don't fully relate to the problem people have with Epic being connected to Tencent (since so are other platforms), but REGARDLESS... it seems sorta weird for you to be telling 2 individuals who are just trying to make a video game. It's not something we can personally change for you.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:51 PM
@Zync so you're only upset about tencent if they have shares? do you think there's no money exchanging hands in a Steam china deal?
Ivory 01-Aug-19 06:51 PM
Snutt - "Why are you complaining about wanting to choose your platform even though the game was set to launch on steam and epic, Tencent will get your money anyway" lmao bruh
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 06:51 PM
If everyone refused to deal with shady companies who did bad things.... There'd be no business anywhere
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Bexe 01-Aug-19 06:51 PM
@LittleTub nicheness doesn't matter, the analogy fits, you can't dismantle EGS criticism by pointing to Discord usage when Discord is the defacto standard and when this discussion is happening on discord
20_Bucks 01-Aug-19 06:51 PM
@perplamps that's not a problem. That never was throwing your stance behind the communist state of China is not what these people have a problem with. Its common knowledge that they have a death grip on that market. The problem was always on how you are treating your fans.
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 06:51 PM
@nonplayercat So why choose EGS? Why not stick with Steam? Was it the money and the fact that you don't care about your audience? Just say it directly.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:51 PM
@perplamps the first bit is factually incorrect. The entirety of Epic is in part owned by Tencent, even buissness outside China directly funds Tencent. The same is not true of Steam.
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:52 PM
Tencent also have shares in Spotify so don't use that. Or Snapchat. Or Tesla. Or games made by Supercell (Clash of Clans etc.), Or Riot Games (League of Legends), And Blizzard Activision etc.
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:52 PM
@nonplayercat please tell Tim Sweeney to give Capcom the rights to Estrellian and I’ll buy 100+ copies of your game for my friends Please I’m getting desperate here
mac 01-Aug-19 06:52 PM
the tencent thing is kind of an unrelated gripe people have with epic in general and I don't even think it's the main issue epic has despite peoples' laser focus on it- The issue here was just the tone of the blogpost on an issue people have legitimate concerns about. It felt dismissive. That's the real issue here, IMO- the sellout and the epic issue are just background.
ItsMatt 01-Aug-19 06:52 PM
was about to say Ahadiel
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 06:52 PM
@Bexe I mean you kind of can. Downloading and using discord is still supporting discord, even if you’re not directly handing them money @bruh
CobalTech 01-Aug-19 06:52 PM
"well which was it, my tone, tencent, anti-consumerism" Guys guys guys, didn't you read the announcement? We were clearly told that we can't disagree with more than topic at a time. Just like it's impossible for for us to be dissatisfied with the EGS deal, climate change, and abuse of human right, clearly, us dumb dumbs need to focus on one single issue. Our tiny consumer brains can't contain more than that.
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 06:52 PM
@MaidenOfTheMain I think that is where most of the upset is coming from. It's like, we've followed you for years, don't we matter?
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:52 PM
at the end of the day, if you're feeling personally attacked by a description of toxic, immature gamers who get irrationally angry at the most mundane, inconsequential things---you might need to do some self-reflection
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seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:52 PM
@AhadielGames I don't use any of these
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 06:52 PM
For all the folks angry about Tencent/EGS, boy howdy just wait until you find out about capitalism.
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Zync 01-Aug-19 06:53 PM
@perplamps an ownership stake implies influence (Tim himself admits that in a tweet). A regional distribution partner doesn't have even close to that level of influence. https://twitter.com/timsweeneyepic/status/1095515651832201217?
@GV_Delchev @Forumposter2 All members of a board of directors weigh in on discussions and vote as fiduciaries on behalf of the interests of the company. Tencent's directors are super valuable contributors whose advise and participation helped make Epic what it is today.
DoobieTheHouseElf 01-Aug-19 06:53 PM
@MaidenOfTheMain Why are you pretending like it is impossible to accept an exclusivity deal while still caring about fans. This reminds me of annoying people who whine when their fav indie band "sells out"
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 06:53 PM
It doesn't matter whether it was about the money or not, Ooblets is our thing that we made, and even if there was $0 involved, we would be free to sell it wherever we choose
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:53 PM
@Zync i love the level of insight into international business you think you have
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 06:53 PM
you can't force developers to sell through steam just because it's your favourite
Jones 01-Aug-19 06:53 PM
Was this game promised to be on steam on launch? To the initial backers, that is.
Mashuu 01-Aug-19 06:53 PM
🇨🇳
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:54 PM
there are no initial backers promised the game on any platform
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 06:54 PM
@MaidenOfTheMain, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@MaidenOfTheMain said: @perplamps I could say that about you, stop clowning around and say it directly. "I don't care about the fans, I just want money." Same with @nonplayercat People are just mad that you're treating them like ****, regardless of who you think you're targeting.
gt 01-Aug-19 06:54 PM
i joined here to laugh at anti-epic people, oh boy what a shitshow. keep going folks
20_Bucks 01-Aug-19 06:54 PM
@perplamps that's not it. I'm not a toxic gamer. I have no problem with being called that. It was the tone of everything has been said.
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:54 PM
@nonplayercat Guys please at the very least ask Sweeney if I can have a translated copy of MHO PLEASE ILL DO ANYTHING GUYS STOP CALLING THE POLICE ON ME I JUST NEED THAT COPY PLEASE
Ivory 01-Aug-19 06:54 PM
"at the end of the day, we dont give 2 fricks about where you want to buy the game, we wanted that big cash stack daddy tim offered us"
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:54 PM
@nonplayercat actually, I prefer Itch and GOG
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:54 PM
@20_Bucks if everyone keeps calling you a toxic gamer...
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 06:54 PM
@mac, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@mac said: @perplamps Okay, okay, hold up here. This is literally the exact problem I had with the post. You can't just paint everyone concerned about the EGS as an angry toxic screeching gamer boy who supports GG and all kinds of *. Yes, there's going to be a human wave of people looking to be righteous and angry who're going to freak out and attack you at first. You didn't just call those people out, the way you phrased it made it seem like anyone who had those concerns was an angry gamer baby. And it was kind of a presumptuous * move!
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:54 PM
@nonplayercat and people are allowed to make criticisms of who you choose to partner with.
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 06:54 PM
But would you have switched without the money? If there was no money and your fans said we dont want this, it makes us sad?
ABCelestial 01-Aug-19 06:54 PM
@gt it's been around seven or eight hours straight. Same guys over and over too.
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 06:54 PM
we put time and money and our lives into something we really care about, and it doesn't seem fair (to me at least) for it to be dictated to us where we are or are not allowed to sell our game
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its like telling a restuarant owner they HAVE to use doordash or ubereats
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 06:55 PM
Originally posted by perplamps: Sorry for the slow response, but the plan is still to do our initial release on Steam, Xbox, and the Windows Store! that didn't age well
seemaq 01-Aug-19 06:55 PM
you said it would be on steam
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:55 PM
the folks who are in this chat fomenting at the mouth for hours and hours, do realize that we're getting paid to be here, not you
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:55 PM
Plans change.
DorkOrca 01-Aug-19 06:55 PM
@perplamps @nonplayercat ily both, you're doing great and no matter what I will give you money for ooblets or die trying
Snutt 01-Aug-19 06:55 PM
@nonplayercat I'm sure ooblets is going to be a better game because of this! ❤ this will blow over. :3
perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:56 PM
@iruma cece what part of plan is confusing to you
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 06:56 PM
that aged fine. He didn't say those were concrete decisions, he said they were plans
Mashuu 01-Aug-19 06:56 PM
🇹🇼
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 06:56 PM
HEY, I'm working for an internship here while watching chat. I'm technically getting paid to slack off
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:56 PM
@nonplayercat You're not wrong, but at the same time, Epic is the one dictating where you can sell it now 😛 (see the case of the indie dev who didn't get their game on EGS unless they agreed to take their game off of Steam)
pfft_as_if 01-Aug-19 06:56 PM
You might’ve already answered this, but since it’s going to be on Epic will it be on Steam at all? If it’s not, will the pre-existing page for Ooblets be taken down?
LennArt 01-Aug-19 06:56 PM
@nonplayercat stay strong! Ooblets is looking great and the supporters are still a vast majority!
silveralen 01-Aug-19 06:56 PM
@nonplayercat Buying your game via the epic store directly funnels a portion (albeit a fairly small one) of that money to a company who actively aids a violent police state. This may, in fact, be an issue for some of us
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 06:56 PM
Then why is Epic telling you you have to have it only on Epic? Isnt that telling you what to do as well? Why not release on several at once? I can sell food wherever I want. But if I go sell it in the manure patch people have a right to not be pleased.
20_Bucks 01-Aug-19 06:56 PM
@perplamps but no one has that I know of except you. Right now. All I'm saying is that you guys have been indiscriminately lashing out at people that are/were fans. Edit:spelling (edited)
CobalTech 01-Aug-19 06:56 PM
You're not getting paid to slack off, you're getting paid while slacking off
Zync 01-Aug-19 06:57 PM
I don't really think its possible to have a conversation here. The devs just keep insulting people who disagree with them.
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 06:57 PM
@nonplayercat and @perplamps right now: 🤡 🤡 With your guy's analogy, it would be like a restaurant advertising they'd be on ubereats and the suddenly changed to doordash and wave a middle finger in the faces of whoever wanted them to be on ubereats.
deedles 01-Aug-19 06:57 PM
Y’all acting like perp is attacking you with his tone when y’all accusing him of association with communist China lol
gt 01-Aug-19 06:57 PM
@ABCelestial i mean, i still gotta give them credits for letting me know about ooblets. i had never heard of the game before this superfluous drama and i find myself fully agreeing with your blog post. hopefully the whole deal will die out soon. gl with moderating.
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Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 06:57 PM
Please for gods sake what do you want from me? Do you need me to give you my social security number? I know you guys are in contact with Sweeney and I won’t stop until I get at least a small taste, a sliver of that stupid Monster Hunter Chinese spyware You have no idea how much I want to see Zamuza in all his HD glory
ItsMatt 01-Aug-19 06:57 PM
My only request regarding Ooblets on EGS If there’s enough of the newfound cash, license some 90s rave tunes so the Ooblets can breakdance harder than ever before
mac 01-Aug-19 06:57 PM
Legit, I'm sorry you're going to receive a lot of hate over this, but people have legitimate reasons for disliking the EGS, and as someone who isn't going to judge for or anything for taking money you definitely needed- The way you're painting everyone who doesn't like the decision with the same "toxic gamer" brush and continuing to stand by the position that anyone that disagrees with the sellout is just a toxic jerk who doesn't know what they're talking about Is kind of super lame and I'm really disappointed as someone who was interested in the game!
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 06:57 PM
well I gave Epic permission to tell me where to sell it, because I have a contract and it was a mutually beneficial agreement.
Evey 01-Aug-19 06:58 PM
could the gamers(tm) kindly leave this discord and make it a slightly better place here lmao
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 06:58 PM
@LittleTub, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@LittleTub said: “We’re gonna accuse you of supporting concentration camps in China and **** you if you be sarcastic to us in a blog post”
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 06:58 PM
I don't have a contract with consumers who haven't yet purchased the game, nor is it a mutually beneficial agreement for them to dictate what I am or am not allowed to do
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:58 PM
@MaidenOfTheMain that's exactly what it's like, and it's absolutely not a big deal at all ahah how can you not see that
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 06:58 PM
a popeyes around here has on their sign that they're available on ubereats but they don't deliver to where i live apparently and as a result i don't believe they're really on ubereats
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 06:58 PM
it's almost like pandering to exhausting complaining people all day is tiring, imagine that 🤷 i reread the blog post forty times to see where anyone was being condescending and found approx 0 instances of this in the post. it wasn't directed at you, so move on. it's directed at the people right now in the chat being whiny gamer babies, lol. came out of woodwork, friends (edited)
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Bexe 01-Aug-19 06:58 PM
@nonplayercat so it is about money, just be honest
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 06:58 PM
Again it is fine to have criticism, but just because you disagree doesn't make your arguments any more "correct" Than theirs. Everyone has their own opinion, and you cannot prove yours is "better" to someone else who disagrees like this. You thinking you're right doesn't make you right.
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 06:58 PM
This seems like that thing where guys read, "Men are jerks" and instantly go, "NOT ALL MEN!". They weren't saying all gamers are toxic. They were pointing out a certain type of person xD
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Mashuu 01-Aug-19 06:58 PM
🇭🇰
Suzi 01-Aug-19 06:58 PM
Folks, they signed a contract. It's done. If you have moral issues with Tencent, don't spend the money. If you don't like the way they announced it so badly that you aren't interested in the game anymore, bye, there are plenty of us still will be excited to check it out. I know I'll install EGS for the first time for this. (edited)
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 06:58 PM
yes businesses are about making money and surviving
I can't make games for free, and I'm sure you don't do your job for free either
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MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 06:59 PM
@perplamps So you're waving a middle finger at Steam users now? you mfing 🤡
Rhonlore 01-Aug-19 06:59 PM
The blog post was incredible. Huge props to whoever wrote that. Much love to the Ooblets team for facing this nonsense head on!
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 06:59 PM
@MaidenOfTheMain we're changing our plans and it's not a big deal at all
MangoDuwudles 01-Aug-19 06:59 PM
I just keep reading EGS as eggs. Felt this important to announce.
Medea 01-Aug-19 06:59 PM
A product being sold where people want to buy it seems mutually beneficial to me, but of course it's not the same thing as an actual business contract
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 06:59 PM
Do people not get that developers are people and they need funding to make a game? Like, it's not just a bribe so they can become filthy rich communists or whatever?
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Evey 01-Aug-19 07:00 PM
they've literally said it's entirely about the money stop being mad about it and either leave or be glad they have the financial support now to make this game amazing without starving in the meantime
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:00 PM
I think when a lot of the kids here get older and have to get jobs, they're idea of what selling out is will change
Zync 01-Aug-19 07:00 PM
do people not get that for years and years, hundreds and thousands of other games and indies were able to get made and funded without exclusivity deals to a launcher?
Ivory 01-Aug-19 07:00 PM
lmfao
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 07:00 PM
hahaha "NOT ALL GAMERS!" /performs the same stressful behaviours as those gamers in question good talk. y'all are saints dealing with this all day, @perplamps @nonplayercat
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 07:00 PM
because there was only one launcher
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 07:00 PM
How much is Epic paying you? I’ll double it! I know you guys along with every other EGS partner has a copy of MHO. Please please pleaee... snurfler
seemaq 01-Aug-19 07:00 PM
Imma leave then
Mashuu 01-Aug-19 07:00 PM
🇹🇼
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:00 PM
@Zync your insight into the gaming industry is astounding, nearly as comprehensive as your insight into international business
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 07:01 PM
@perplamps Not a bit of it. What part of any of this is confusing to you? You're the one who assumed that anyone who is upset about the deal is going to fall into a very specific category of gaming enthusiast. If you didn't want the backlash, you'd have thought a lot harder about your statement before you posted it. I'm not upset about the fact you took the money, as I have said repeatedly in this channel even when @TucanSam was busy trying to carry water for you while you were out. It's that you assumed that anyone who would be upset by your deal was definitely going fall into a specific category of person, and also the assumption that we should care about "real issues" instead. Because we can't care about multiple things at once, that's how dumb we are, apparently.
DorkOrca 01-Aug-19 07:01 PM
ooblets is now exclusive to eggs. specs: must be AA, large, sunny side up preferred
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 07:01 PM
@jmarieray I can't react so have a 🍪 (edited)
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 07:01 PM
My god, all of you fanboys are f-ing 🤡 right now. Must be a lot of money Epic is paying you right now to be a 🤡 right now.
hmaon 01-Aug-19 07:01 PM
@Zync would've been better with a check from Epic though
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 07:01 PM
A patreon where most people probably pay $1. How far do you think 2-3k a month goes for two people?
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:01 PM
I think most (rational people) understand and would also make the same deal with Epic. It's just the handling of how it was communicated that seems to be aggravating people here, on Twitter, on Reddit, and other forums I've checked. Of course you'll get the excessive trolls along with that, too, unfortunately
ItsMatt 01-Aug-19 07:01 PM
all these clown emojis are doing my head in
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 07:01 PM
You're upset that they thought you'd be upset?
🍍SenilBiffen🍍 01-Aug-19 07:01 PM
thanks for putting this on epic store so i can dedicate my time to Temtem instead of choosing between Temtem and this
mac 01-Aug-19 07:01 PM
@TucanSam they're literally entering this conversation with the presumption that they're just right. I agree with everything they're saying beyond the tone that there's objectively nothing wrong with the EGS and anyone who might have a problem with it is just being a sillyboi, which is not just condescending, it's obnoxious There's nothing wrong with taking a check and selling out if you need it, it's your game, you can sell it wherever you want, but this rhetoric is lame as heck This conversation is honestly doing more to steer me away from the game than the EGS decision ever did. I'm trying to be genuine here
MangoDuwudles 01-Aug-19 07:02 PM
@DorkOrca yes
Snagglewolf 01-Aug-19 07:02 PM
Main just leave. You're mad. You're not accomplishing anything. You're not gonna get what you want here. Surely you can find a better use for your time.
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silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:02 PM
@perplamps He was correct about the fact that a company owning 40+% of another isn't the same as the two companies having a distribution agreement
Rhonlore 01-Aug-19 07:02 PM
As a salt miner, I'm definitely going to enjoy reading this channel.
Ivory 01-Aug-19 07:02 PM
"all you kiddies that grow up and get a joby woby will all sell out like us" yikes, didnt think the devs would be that sad 5head
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:02 PM
@mac you've been in here nonstop going at us, not really buying it
Zync 01-Aug-19 07:02 PM
@perplamps just like you're clearly an expert in how to avoid a PR crisis. oh wait.
Baloo 01-Aug-19 07:02 PM
Man watching this has murdered my productivity today
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Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 07:02 PM
@Evey, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Evey said: **** valve anyways tbh
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 07:02 PM
Most indie games never see the light of day because they don't have funding. Even those that do aren't guaranteed to be profitable, which isn't as much of a problem for folks whose primary job is not game dev. But for those whose primary job is, game developers need to make money, and that includes signing contracts and, yes, even exclusivity deals.
Mashuu 01-Aug-19 07:02 PM
🇹🇼 what flag is this?
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 07:03 PM
Customers have no obligation either, and if your tone is that the money comes first, and you all our customers second, then the money goes elsewhere. Simple as that.
deedles 01-Aug-19 07:03 PM
Is that what you got out of what perp said, ivory 0-0
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 07:03 PM
@jmarieray, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@jmarieray said: tone policing is real cool lmao. especially when this has been all they're dealing with, all day long. it's like people coming in with the same question all **** day and getting surprised when they don't have energy anymore, lord
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 07:03 PM
Why are you coming into this discussion with the idea that they aren't right? Why do you think you are right and they are wrong? Who gave you this kind of idea that you know better than they do? @mac
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 07:03 PM
@Mashuu Taiwan?
hmaon 01-Aug-19 07:03 PM
@Baloo same! >_< I'm like staying late at the office now.
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:03 PM
@mac I think the main "gripe" with the blog post is that they set up a strawman of the issues of EGS (ignoring the genuine ones) and preemptively dismiss criticisms instead of just saying, hey...the money helps a LOT. that's it
gt 01-Aug-19 07:03 PM
but they explicitly stated there is a financial reason too
Vajra 01-Aug-19 07:04 PM
OK, so I may be a fan of ooblets (or what i've seen anyway), but I'm not any kind of "fanboy", but I still think that just going off of the fact that bills and needs are a thing for every human being, including the devs...that should be reason enough to take the deal, even if we as consumers don't like it
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:04 PM
all you folks can say is the problem is either the tencent, features, or anti-consumerism and when we address those all you can say it that the issue is tone
☝ 8
gladpuS 2
🤷 1
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 07:04 PM
Then maybe the issue is tone lmao (edited)
usagibae 01-Aug-19 07:04 PM
Then shouldn't you also address the tone?
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 07:04 PM
@perplamps# where did you address those concerns?
bee 01-Aug-19 07:04 PM
they have several times all day
Raekai 01-Aug-19 07:04 PM
@nonplayercat @perplamps As long as I'm not being a butt about it, can I continue to be bummed that I have to wait a while for the game to come to Steam? Again, so glad that you guys got great financial support. That's awesome, especially for an indie time. I'm just a bit bummed that it doesn't work so well for me, especially since I've been a patron for some time and that there was every reason to expect it to launch on Steam. I don't like/trust/support EGS and I'm bummed that it conflicts with me liking/trusting/supporting you guys. I just want to continue to prove that there is a middle ground of people who are bummed—both fairly and respectfully so. wigglewip
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 07:05 PM
but what about trading cards
Ivory 01-Aug-19 07:05 PM
meh if they dont believe in their game then they really needed this money, at least you got a safety net of guarantee if they game dont sell well
Bexe 01-Aug-19 07:05 PM
there was no need to wrap "we needed the money" up into an essay about Gamer Outrage and whataboutism
Mashuu 01-Aug-19 07:05 PM
🇭🇰 🇹🇼
DorkOrca 01-Aug-19 07:05 PM
i'm big mad because the ooblet girl flossed in the tweet :(
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:05 PM
@perplamps actually its mostly different people taking issue with different portions
Baloo 01-Aug-19 07:05 PM
Oh my god I’ve thought that was a wallet full of money this whole time
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 07:05 PM
@perplamps Fine. In the time that you have kept me waiting and kept me from what is rightfully mine, I have transcended. I have become that of which the likes you have never seen, not a god, much much more. My time is now. I have become my OWN copy of Monster Hunter: Online. Sweeney can no longer hold me back. I am free. chickadingding
🌅 1
pantsabear 2
Snutt 01-Aug-19 07:05 PM
you can believe in your game as much as you want. That doesn't guarantee it will sell...
deedles 01-Aug-19 07:05 PM
Ivory, did you read the post? They said the money up front will help them make the game the best it can be, because at the moment they are hard pressed
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 07:06 PM
The folks who come in here talking about the tone of the dev update while spending hours harassing the devs and demanding answers... have absolutely no sense of self-awareness and it is staggering.
👌 17
Evey 01-Aug-19 07:06 PM
"you should have just said it was about the money and not ripped into GAMERS" said a bunch of people flouncing around shrieking about how they're not going to buy the game anymore
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 07:06 PM
Thanks for making up my mind to support Temtem instead developers! What a toxic fandom you have here as well :D
ItsMatt 01-Aug-19 07:06 PM
Isn't Monster Hunter World a thing Abyssmo surely that scratches the itch
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 07:06 PM
@Raekai Well said.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:06 PM
if anything you guys make me want to rip into gamers more??
😆 3
Rhonlore 01-Aug-19 07:06 PM
Please do. "Gamers" are awful.
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 07:06 PM
LMAO @Kozmosbound FOR REAL
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 07:06 PM
@bee sorry I haven't been on all day... I've been at work.
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 07:06 PM
@MaidenOfTheMain no way you’re talking about other people being toxic lmao. I refuse to believe that
mac 01-Aug-19 07:06 PM
@perplamps "Going at you????" Sure, I like a heated discussion, but I've never once said you didn't have the right to sell on the epic store, all I've said, repeatedly, in response to people under the impression that it's just a blind rage, is "the decision to sell out is fine, the post deriding people who may not like the decision comes off as smug." that's literally it. I apologize if my constant interactions in here feel like harassment even when I was talking directly to other people in here, I'm just, honestly, enjoying the discussion of it. @TucanSam I don't think I'm necessarily objectively right! I think it's a discussion, that's the point!
Raekai 01-Aug-19 07:07 PM
@Hosscatt Thanks. I've been trying to maintain the middle. Lol.
bee 01-Aug-19 07:07 PM
@A Guy in Shorts oh no i wasnt talking to you its okay !
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 07:07 PM
@ItsMatt yeah but MHW doesn’t have Estrellian, which belongs to Tencent. And considering MHO is shutting down, we ain’t seeing him or any of the other exclusives monsters to that game.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 07:07 PM
are y'all fr
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 07:07 PM
You must think you are objectively right if they say they think they did the right thing, and you folks are all saying "No, you didn't." you can't disagree that they are right if you don't think you are right.
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 07:07 PM
@perplamps I'm sure your next blog post will be a real kick in the knackers lmao
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:07 PM
@Sanicrossei we've definitely told you to stop as you've added nothing to the conversation except your weird roleplaying
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 07:08 PM
i have a serious question, what about your patreon are you going to keep accepting money from it?
Evey 01-Aug-19 07:08 PM
it's amazing seeing all these anime and meme avatars in here, like, you can just SMELL the kotakuinaction off them
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:08 PM
@Paladin Knight Rebecca put that question to patrons in the post
Ivory 01-Aug-19 07:08 PM
@Paladin Knight ofcourse lmao
20_Bucks 01-Aug-19 07:08 PM
@perplamps I will end my comments with this. You guys are passionate about your game I get that. It was just the disrespectful way you have come off in how you interacted with us. The announcement of going to EPIC is not an issue to me personally. A good business move to be sure. I just dont like it when you slap me in the face. Truly hope this game works out for you. Can see the love that was put into it.
Vajra 01-Aug-19 07:08 PM
at this point, I'm just happy it's coming to steam at all in the future, even with my support of the devteam
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 07:08 PM
i have an anime avatar and didn´t do anything bad 😦
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 07:08 PM
@bee all good, it's hard to tell sometimes! 🙃
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:08 PM
at the end of the day it's open to whoever wants to support the patreon, we don't need the money from there now though
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 07:08 PM
I don't understand what it is exactly that you hope to achieve by complaining about the tone of the blogpost. Like, if you don't like our personality or our style of writing, that's totally fine, but we can't really help you there.
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 07:08 PM
"why aren't you being nice to me while i harass you and demand answers i can just scroll up to read where you've answered them four thousand times?"
usagibae 01-Aug-19 07:09 PM
I feel like this ""controversy"" just gives the game more publicity. The only reason I'm here is to see this fallout of the non-ironic #gamersriseup club going at indie devs.
gt 01-Aug-19 07:09 PM
same
Rhonlore 01-Aug-19 07:09 PM
100%
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:09 PM
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 07:09 PM
Untitled Goose Game handled this rather well as they put an apologetic tone to it. Judging from the responses here im not sure I would even get the game on Steam later. Some concerns are legit, and the light insulting is a downer from a Dec
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:09 PM
i do have to say, the tone in the blogpost is ABSOLUTELY the same in the game, so I think this was really valuable for you folks to find out sooner rather than later
❤ 9
Suzi 01-Aug-19 07:09 PM
lol
ABCelestial 01-Aug-19 07:09 PM
@Paladin Knight I've paid a dollar a month for around a year now. That's twelve whole dollars. I will continue this because the Devs have been supplying a lot of insight into the game. I even saw them completely revamp the battle system. I will continue to support them with my one dollar.
👌 3
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:09 PM
and we're definitely not apologetic, that's the difference
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 07:09 PM
We're not going to apologise for something we believe is right for the game
👏 6
❤ 7
💯 6
upvote 11
SuperDingler 01-Aug-19 07:09 PM
Exclusivity and taking away choice are anti-consumerist as well bad for the community. I cant support a platform that bribes developers away from giving people choice. When people torrent this game don't expect sympathy honestly.
Mashuu 01-Aug-19 07:09 PM
🇹🇼
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 07:10 PM
@perplamps This just seems like normal British humour to me xD
DorkOrca 01-Aug-19 07:10 PM
Why should they apologize, they owe y'all nothing lmao
seemaq 01-Aug-19 07:10 PM
that I can respect
MotoLAD 01-Aug-19 07:10 PM
Imagine thinking that devs have to apologise for choosing where to sell their game
Jones 01-Aug-19 07:10 PM
Hey, I wish you the best of luck on your game. Just as you have the right to sell your game to whichever platform you wish, people have a right to not use said platform, that of course, does not mean pirating is okay. Parts of conversations here may be used, have a good night. And best of luck!
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 07:10 PM
be used how
Evey 01-Aug-19 07:11 PM
@perplamps i think you should just kick off the blocking & banning for people who are clearly just around to have a moan & flounce
mac 01-Aug-19 07:11 PM
@TucanSam how does "I think brushing off the concerns of people that don't like the client or the practice of exclusivity as objectively wrong in a kind of rude way" automatically equal "i am right and you are wrong." If i believed that I would be posting taiwan flags and drive by shitposts like everyone else
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:11 PM
@perplamps the game will also critique people for not caring about the "real issues" while directly encouraging you to help finance the arm of a brutal police state? Didn't really get that from the teasers tbh
ItsMatt 01-Aug-19 07:11 PM
i'm not massively bothered about launchers at the end of the day, i already use a bunch of apps for my music so i see it as just the same thing. each launcher has its own advantages and disadvantages, and whilst compared to steam epic's launcher isn't there yet, by the time Ooblets is out who says it won't be? As long as I can play the game I'm not massively fussed. (i hope it'll work on wine though, mac gaming is never a fun time) (edited)
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:11 PM
we're banning folks who are spamming, posting racist stuff, making personal attacks, and the like
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:11 PM
I don't think the devs should have to apologize for the condescension in the post at all. The reactions across the internet to it is completely unsurprising, however @Rhonlore Actually, that's one reason I escaped to PC! (edited)
Rhonlore 01-Aug-19 07:11 PM
It's weird how these people have never had to deal with a console exclusive. I want to live in their worlds.
Hosscatt 01-Aug-19 07:11 PM
Then im glad I found out I do not matter as a customer before I bought this. I have certain values I cannot go against, you have ones you follow. Good luck to you, but this game is not for me.
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 07:11 PM
Because they don't believe they are wrong. And if you think that they are wrong, then you believe you are right.
Gr1d 01-Aug-19 07:11 PM
Exclusivity is ruining the market. PUT HALO ON THE SWITCH YOU COWARDS!
Monochrome Baku 01-Aug-19 07:11 PM
Y'all, it's really simple: if you're not happy with the decision the devs made, just don't buy the game.
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 07:12 PM
@ABCelestial But aren't you now ya know paying them even though they have enough money for the game now and that is why the patreon was made in the first place? @perplamps There is a difference in tone when talking about peoples actual money though and dialouge in an actual game though...
Bexe 01-Aug-19 07:12 PM
rare replay on dolphin or we riot
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:12 PM
@silveralen I can't keep getting into the tencent stuff if you can't read my replies
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 07:12 PM
imo, i think there is legitimate criticism about EGS. i know there are a lot of toxic haters in that topic, but also people that try to criticise Epic in a proper manner. the controversy is legitimate in a certain level, but the thing that is more visible is "epic and devs bad, cheers steam", drowning the legitimate complaints
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 07:12 PM
Lotta folks in here giving off some major "....I studied the blade" energy.
😂 4
Akane 01-Aug-19 07:12 PM
@Gr1d I really want Halo on the Switch tbh.
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 07:12 PM
@Gr1d i think there's a rumour that might actually happen, anything is possible now that banjo is going to be in smash
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 07:13 PM
I think every game should be on every platform
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:13 PM
they told me I shouldn't make jokes about fortnite crossovers
ABCelestial 01-Aug-19 07:13 PM
@Paladin Knight yes. And I will continue to do so. I like getting to see the devlogs, which, by the way, have always sounded just as snarky as the one everyone is so butthurt over. The game has always been like this.
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 07:13 PM
me, looking at the straight piles of cashing i'm making as an indie developer
LennArt 01-Aug-19 07:13 PM
Fortnite x Ooblets yeeeees
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:13 PM
@perplamps your replies have merely drawn false equivalences between steam and epic? Which continues to make no sense as Tencent does not own part of steam and takes no money from my purchases, and Steam itself has not openly assisted in China's attempts crackdown on its populace.
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:13 PM
So are we getting Ooblets on Ouya or what
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 07:13 PM
I find it odd how concerned all of you are about communist china and human rights....but only after your other arguments fail.
Gr1d 01-Aug-19 07:13 PM
Guys don't get my hopes up for Master Chief on the go.
Snagglewolf 01-Aug-19 07:14 PM
@jmarieray please stop coming in here to wave your stacks of indie dev money around. It's in poor taste and not fair to the rest of us.
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 07:14 PM
this dev team has some really Y I K E S takes wow
DorkOrca 01-Aug-19 07:14 PM
People are acting like contributing to the patreon means they have some kind of shareholder's stake in every decision related to the game Like no, you are donating money and the things noted in your reward tier are what you're getting for that money.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:14 PM
@silveralen you're talking from the position of someone totally out of the loop, and painfully wrong
ItsMatt 01-Aug-19 07:14 PM
@LittleTub that'd be pretty sweet yes, but every platform has different development systems, and the cost of reworking the game for every platform can add up. hence why most kickstarters end up with stretch goals for more ports and whatnot
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 07:14 PM
@Giorno Giovanna, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Giorno Giovanna said: Indie Devs making Exclusivity deals to fund a game it is fine. But when you decide to downplay the criticisms of those who are against EGS and come of as a condescending **, then it becomes a problem. The devs should apologize for that disgusting blogpost. It should of been "We needed more money, sorry for the inconvience." and thats it.
Evey 01-Aug-19 07:14 PM
"disgusting"
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:14 PM
nope, not sorry!
Mashuu 01-Aug-19 07:15 PM
🇹🇼 Are you sure?
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 07:15 PM
we're all here for the money, @Snagglewolf . we can't hide our oodles of buyout cash from selling out any longer. it's time i leave for my yacht and 5 mansions i earned making video games
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 07:15 PM
Haha "disgusting". Shame on them for identifying the main criticisms and trying to address them in advance.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:15 PM
@Mashuu you've been spamming the same thing over and over
Akane 01-Aug-19 07:15 PM
@Paladin Knight It kind of worries me seeing this kinda behavior from devs, makes me worry about what kinda things I might be supporting.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:15 PM
with no content
Katie 01-Aug-19 07:15 PM
Why should it matter? If you dislike Epic, fine, but what does Ooblets have to do with it? Just don't buy their game, you don't need to try force the developers to dislike Epic or agree with your opinions
Gr1d 01-Aug-19 07:15 PM
Honestly I'm just impressed people took the time to read the blog post and get upset about it. It's definitely not that they read the headline and skimmed it for ammo.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:15 PM
@perplamps which loop? Is steam openly assisting the Chinese government in the same manner as Tencent, which again I see no record of, or does Tencent not receive money from Epic despite having a 40% ownership of the company. I could be wrong but you'd need to actually tell me why for it to be a rebuttal. (edited)
Rhonlore 01-Aug-19 07:15 PM
They didnt. Someone told them it was condescending and they descended here.
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 07:16 PM
not sorry, but sorry for the inconvenience of not being sorry
radladlaugh 1
TheMintedLady 01-Aug-19 07:16 PM
If you would like a break from the vitriol, @perplamps and @nonplayercat, we're tossing out some amazing ideas for Ooblet-rhyming products in the Ooblets channel. (edited)
Snagglewolf 01-Aug-19 07:16 PM
@jmarieray what happened to doing it for the love.
mac 01-Aug-19 07:16 PM
i'm feeling a little drained. came in here with an open mind thinking "that post was kind of unfortunate but here's hoping despite the wall of hate they're getting the devs can maybe respond to the people with actual criticism!" instead it's more like your average "gamers amirite" twitter thread @perplamps where did you post the explanation for it being anti-consumers, I never saw it.
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 07:16 PM
I’m assuming there’s something in the contract about not bashing on the epic games store, or else not being apologetic that you’re putting it on a worse launcher, even if the game will be better, would be super ignorant of the difference between steam and epic
Giorno Giovanna 01-Aug-19 07:16 PM
@perplamps So let me make things clear. You do not think that blogpost was condescending, and you feel like you have nothing to apologize for?
Zync 01-Aug-19 07:16 PM
I mean, I dont understand the dev responses. You already took the money, that doors closed. Instead of damage control they seem to enjoy stoking the flames and getting people madder
DorkOrca 01-Aug-19 07:16 PM
People really will go to any length to not download one extra launcher, huh
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 07:16 PM
one more question, the people who pleged on patreon will still get their rewards right? this isin't gonna be a shenmue 3 situation right
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 07:17 PM
If gamers are so great why isn’t there a gamers 2 also MHO joke hehe
Karolus 01-Aug-19 07:17 PM
@perplamps I am gonna be honest, I came here just because of the (innecesary) drama,didn't knew the game until the controversy, don't like the genre, but let me add my 5 cents for what they are worth. The communication should have been not taking any kind of jaws , joke or not, at people who might don't want Epic Store or felt somewhat betrayed by this, at the end of the day those are people that wanted the game to succed. It should have been more neutral, amiable , but neutral. That would have helped A LOT with the backslash , disminishing it. And for what I have been told it is said here and I have read, well , stop digging yourselves. This, let's say PR disaster was so easy to avoid, I am even sad it got that way, this was one of the Epic exclusives that should have been nearly painless for you , the devs. Some time to think this should be positive.
Petra 01-Aug-19 07:17 PM
I love that @MaidenOfTheMain talks up how toxic this place is, then goes into another discord server to complain where they think they won't be called out on their BS. Describing the devs of this game as saying they "gave a middle finger towards Steam users", when their question to the devs was instead about people who didn't want it on EGS. It's actually rather hilarious
Ivory 01-Aug-19 07:17 PM
why are you even making ooblets when you could be making MHO2?
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:18 PM
Ooblets for Vita or we riot
47Ways 01-Aug-19 07:18 PM
@Gr1d wut? The headline was fine, the problem with it was all that came after and how condescending it was to everyone with legitimate issues with EGS. And then terrible hot takes from the devs in this Discord saying "lol you guys weren't going to buy the game anyway" also didn't help.
Akane 01-Aug-19 07:18 PM
@Paladin Knight sadly it's likely going to be a Shenmue 3 problem...
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:18 PM
@mac please try to reconcile your feelings about Netflix, Hulu, any tv show, any content, and how it gets paid for, produced, and distributed, with your concept of "anti-consumerist" regarding what Epic does
ItsMatt 01-Aug-19 07:18 PM
got bad news about steam for everyone raging about the china connection https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/11/17451484/steam-china-announced-valve-perfect-world
Portions of the service were blocked last year.
😂 3
🇺🇲 1
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:18 PM
uh oh
mac 01-Aug-19 07:18 PM
@perplamps but I don't like what netflix and hulu do and I don't want that to come to videogames?
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 07:18 PM
LMAO i just snorted
Mashuu 01-Aug-19 07:18 PM
🇹🇼 You dont know this flag? Whats it country perlamps?
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:18 PM
@mac then take it up with basic economics and capitalism
Deadly Penguin 01-Aug-19 07:18 PM
What option do the people that literally can't buy the game now due to Epic not supporting their currency have?, I wanted to buy the game, but now I'm 100% unable since i don't have the means to do so, does not wanting to support Epic Games make me an entitled angry child just because my country isn't allowed to buy games in my own currency? Am i an enraged manbaby due to the fact that even if i did buy it, it would cost me more than it should?
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:19 PM
@Mashuu make an argument and i'll respond to it
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 07:19 PM
@Evey, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Evey said: I think what people fail to realise is that far from putting people off buying the game, I am increasingly more likely to buy a game if it will **** off some Gamers(tm)
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 07:19 PM
if you've got an xbox you can buy it on that
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:19 PM
@Deadly Penguin you'll have to wait I guess! nobody owes you the game
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 07:19 PM
Can I just.... do people not agree that its more worth being angry over climate change and human rights?
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 07:19 PM
@Deadly Penguin Your option is to take that up with Epic Games support and let them know about the issue
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 07:19 PM
I mean it is right?
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 07:19 PM
Yikes. @perplamps
gt 01-Aug-19 07:19 PM
@Deadly Penguin epic has regional pricing afaik, at worst you'd have to pay a small commission because of the conversion to dollars. what is your currency? (edited)
Kumi 01-Aug-19 07:20 PM
Steam in China to be rebranded "Smog".
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:20 PM
if you honestly believe you're owed the game, any game, or the product of anyone's work, we will never be able to convince you of anything
upvote 5
Rhonlore 01-Aug-19 07:20 PM
@EmiliusTheAwesome Not for entitled gamers. (edited)
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:20 PM
you're too far gone
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 07:20 PM
Just came here to say i see nothing wrong with ribbing on people acting like downloading EGS is the worst thing in the world. like would i do it for fortnite? no. would i do it for a game i've been following for a year? yes. i .. i think that's just simple lol
☝ 3
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:20 PM
@EmiliusTheAwesome that's really not a rabbit hole worth going down tbh
Petra 01-Aug-19 07:20 PM
I disagree. EGS is a change in the PC climate, and violates our human rights to purchase on Steam! 😡
radladlaugh 3
Bexe 01-Aug-19 07:20 PM
"nobody owes you the game" is a pretty dark take when talking about global markets and pricing schemes according to currency values and cost of living
Giorno Giovanna 01-Aug-19 07:20 PM
@perplamps Also, per your blogpost, you stated"I don’t expect much of our uniquely-lovely community to fit into this weird anti-Epic contingent." Not trying to strawman here, but does this mean you pretty much think people who are against the EGS practices should not fit in this community?
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:20 PM
@ItsMatt Perfect world games gets no money for purchases of steam games made in the USA, my country, nor has it collaborated with the Chinese goverment to the same extend as Tencent
Mashuu 01-Aug-19 07:20 PM
🇹🇼 I just want to know what you call the country of this flag @perplamps
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 07:21 PM
@perplamps yeah but I’m owed MHO unironically Don’t care about any other game, just that tbh
Vajra 01-Aug-19 07:21 PM
what the heck, mashuu, are you trying to do
Snutt 01-Aug-19 07:21 PM
@Mashuu that's denmark
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:21 PM
@Giorno Giovanna I think you definitely wouldn't like Ooblets in general
@Mashuu if I didn't, the emoji has a hovertext
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 07:21 PM
@Mashuu Isn't that the Albanian flag?
Deadly Penguin 01-Aug-19 07:21 PM
i'm mainly mentioning it to say that not everyone that is against Epic is an enraged angry person, and that shouldn't be the narrative you should be pushing, I never said you owed me anything because of how long i supported the game, I'm just saying that because that's what affects me the most (also for reference, its CLP)
47Ways 01-Aug-19 07:21 PM
jesus christ @perplamps . You guys really can't turn the condescending off. You're actively talking down to people who wanted to buy your game and can't do that now because you put it somewhere it isn't available to them
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 07:21 PM
"People are acting like contributing to the patreon means they have some kind of shareholder's stake in every decision related to the game" What is it with people acting as though the people who are upset are acting as though they are entitled to have a say in what the devs are doing? I have absolutely no interest in telling @perplamps how to run their business. But I am allowed to take issues with the things they say in defense of their business decisions.
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 07:21 PM
It feels more like he’s expressing his distaste towards the decision to use a platform that will make the game cost more for him rather than being entitled
Evey 01-Aug-19 07:22 PM
All i hear in here at this point is a bunch of squarking sealions
Gr1d 01-Aug-19 07:22 PM
Ya'll act like Origin isn't a thing. Somehow the world got over that.
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 07:22 PM
My only problem with this is I have no games on the EGS, and I won’t to play one game. I’m just sad I’ll have to wait however long.
Katie 01-Aug-19 07:22 PM
I feel like every comment just proves a point...
☝ 4
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 07:22 PM
i think it's a one of those tests on what you're allowed and to allowed to do when associated with a Chinese company, as the government does not recognize an independent country of Taiwan (edited)
DorkOrca 01-Aug-19 07:22 PM
literally @Evey
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 07:22 PM
"not available" isn't it coming to console ? isn't the EGS working on reaching further? it's not locked forever lol also someone mentioned bad pr move? the only bad pr is coming from gamersTM , which are people i wouldn't want buying my game if this were me
ItsMatt 01-Aug-19 07:22 PM
I mean, Valve had to sign an agreement with the administration in Shanghai as well as Perfect World So if anything it'll be Valve themselves dealing with the Chinese Gov and not Perfect World
Bexe 01-Aug-19 07:22 PM
how many games did Origin moneyhat for exclusivity?
Giorno Giovanna 01-Aug-19 07:22 PM
@perplamps So, to clarify again. You do not think I would like your game just because I do not like EGS?
Ivory 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
@Deadly Penguin nobody owes you the game dude, if you want the game move to a country that has your currency, you DO want ooblets dont you? move country because the devs dont care about your third world currency
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
EA just bought out the entire studio and made the studio exclusive aha.
Mashuu 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
🇹🇼 I didnt say you didnt know. I am just wondering what you call the country of this flag. Type it please 😃 @perplamps
SuperDingler 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
@Gr1d origin is horrid. Still a pos launcher to this day.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
@Giorno Giovanna I think if you take issue with the tone of our posts, you'll definitely take issue with the tone and content of our game
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
@mac, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@mac said: @perplamps Okay but people are allowed to complain about/disagree with something happening even if the system they're in heavily lends to it happening Like, I'm sorry you're getting a load of **** right now and it'd stress anyone out, but I don't think these responses are going to do absolutely anything for you.. In the nicest way possible I think you're going to end up bringing more hate down on you, they genuinely come off as condescending. I'm going to head off now before things get worse, sorry the discussion ended up like this
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
@wackydeli I think Epic is giving away a free game every week(month?) if you want to build up your library. A lot of good games on there!
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
@ItsMatt then I'll likely take issue with Valve and stop purchasing games from them once the first bout of arrests occurs linked to information steam provided china. If that happens, which is unlikely. (edited)
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
@Mashuu Or is that flag.....Norway?
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
@jmarieray, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@jmarieray said: i really hate tone policing overall. folks got a problem with him being frustrated but have literally had him on the **** flame all day about doing what's right for them and their game, mad about some jokes and language he used in a quirky blog post. you don't have the right or footing to tell him he's not being "nice" to you. lord
Rhonlore 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
Yeah the free games from Epic thing is nuts. So many good games. (edited)
Petra 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
I like that the chat is named epic chat. Was that changed, or is it a delightful coincidence?
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
if you honestly think there's some conspiracy about us not being able to type the word taiwan... you gotta head back to gab
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
@perplamps To be fair, the previous blog posts weren't exactly the same tbh (or it seemed more tongue-in-cheek in a fun way 😦 )
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 07:23 PM
@Rhubarbist you don't technically own them if you uninstall it it's removed from your library forever and you have to then buy it
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 07:24 PM
you are not owed a gamedevs respect because there's a chance you might buy their game. You have however repeatedly been given the developers respect by having them answer so many of your questions again and again and again instead of just ignoring you
💯 6
Zync 01-Aug-19 07:24 PM
yeah a bunch of games everyone got on the humble bundle 3 years ago, real good job with that one epic
Deadly Penguin 01-Aug-19 07:24 PM
@Ivory i don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but either way, it's funny that that's pretty much the answer I'm gonna get
Evey 01-Aug-19 07:24 PM
very well. we shall resume in an hour
b00 01-Aug-19 07:24 PM
@Mashuu wigglewip do you know what this emoji is? It's wigglewip waving goodbye cause your attitude isn't welcome
Katie 01-Aug-19 07:24 PM
"we're not entitled, we're owed your game"
☝ 4
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 07:24 PM
@perplamps I feel like equating communicating business decisions from dev to consumer, and in-game character dialogue, feels really weird lmao
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 07:24 PM
@Gr1d "Ya'll act like Origin isn't a thing. Somehow the world got over that." Yes, I too remember when Origin/GOG/Itch.to/Battle.net/Steam started buying up third party exclusives that were originally planned for other platforms Oh wait
Karolus 01-Aug-19 07:24 PM
@perplamps, well ignored my message, that's to be expected I guess. I wil make it short, don't keep digging yourself with the answers you are giving and all this would have been avoided if your announcement was better thought out without pointing at anyone.
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 07:25 PM
@Petra this chat was created specifically for discussion about the epic exclusivity, however it is disappointing it's not for the discussion of the electronic medical record
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:25 PM
@LittleTub the content of our game reflects us in the same way us not bending over backward to baby gamers does
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 07:25 PM
@Rhubarbist ive owned every game given away or announced so far haha
Ivory 01-Aug-19 07:25 PM
@Deadly Penguin its sarcasm, but seriously they dont give 2 fricks where you live, its pretty much not a concern to them, either move country, wait 12 months and get it on a discount on steam or pirate it, literally your only options
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:25 PM
@Karolus pointing at you bud
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 07:25 PM
@nonplayercat @@perplamps wow you guys just keep digging...
ItsMatt 01-Aug-19 07:25 PM
never mind the fact that the Steam China launch event and International 2019 announcement in Shanghai was attended by several companies, such as Perfect World, NetEase annnnnnnd Tencent. So whilst Valve are partnered with Perfect World, they'll be going through the same channels as Tencent and NetEase in the end. A lot of Chinese players are concerned that this will lead to a greatly pared down Steam client and heavily censored games to remove violence and the like. https://esportsobserver.com/shanghai-steam-china/
Mentioned in this article Companies: Allied Esports, NetEase Games: Dota 2, Hearthstone, League of Legends Brands: Honor, Mercedes-Benz Teams: LGD Gaming The Shanghai government held a signing ceremony this week, attended by multiple Chinese companies in the city including Te...
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 07:25 PM
我知道你可以读这个蒂姆。我现在在你家。你知道我想要什么,我知道你可以把它给我。不要让这个艰难的时间。给我MHO。
Gr1d 01-Aug-19 07:25 PM
So it's not exclusivity it's that the right company didn't secure it. If Steam had paid some cash for a 1yr deal no one would be in here getting angry?
Akane 01-Aug-19 07:26 PM
@Abyssmo agreed
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 07:26 PM
@Mashuu ....But what countries flag is that?
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 07:26 PM
is it digging if you're just not listening? asking for a friend
Evey 01-Aug-19 07:26 PM
"not going to sell enough copies to make a profit" oh dear.... who's going to tell them?
Bexe 01-Aug-19 07:26 PM
@Gr1d in a universe where steam/valve was the type of company to do that, i'd be mad about that too (edited)
Mashuu 01-Aug-19 07:26 PM
@TucanSam accordign to Tencent it is the Flag of the Republic of China. To the free world, it is the flag of Taiwan.
Zero 01-Aug-19 07:26 PM
Not much niceness from either side here 😢
PoutyPanda 01-Aug-19 07:27 PM
@Chonka Chonka Amen!
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 07:27 PM
@perplamps I think there’s a disconnect between how you intended the post to be received and how it actually came across (edited)
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 07:27 PM
Hello. I have a question about a couple of statements that were made in the Epic exclusivity announcement:
Rhonlore 01-Aug-19 07:27 PM
Me, laughing at the people thinking they are owed "niceness" when being exceptionally rude to the developers.
💯 7
🇾 5
🇪 5
🇸 5
benhaa 1
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 07:27 PM
On the other hand, I respect how honest and upfront the devs have been in dealing with all this, definitely improved my interest in the game and I'll make sure to share that with my friends.
❤ 4
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:27 PM
@ItsMatt Tencent has cooperated with Chinese government to the extent of having numerous Muslims arrested for "excessive displays of faith" on their services by the government. They are not just abiding by Chinese censorship laws, they go above and beyond that, it's not even their role as a video game conglomerate that causes the most damage. (edited)
AndyWood 01-Aug-19 07:27 PM
I mean, I think the vast majority of people who read it did not have this reaction tbh and did not spend an entire workday arguing on a discord channel
💯 4
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 07:27 PM
@Katie Today at 4:24 PM "we're not entitled, we're owed your game" Nice execution, you're doing terrific. Can you find where I've said anything like that personally?
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:28 PM
@LittleTub no, I think the toxic entitled gamers took it as directed at them
seemaq 01-Aug-19 07:28 PM
Ok, hypothetically, is it okay to pirate Ooblets after you buy it on egs
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 07:28 PM
i don't see the point in saying that exclusivity is "anti consumer." have you heard of mario? have you heard of half life?
Vajra 01-Aug-19 07:28 PM
@ThreeSon you are better off DM'ing perplamps, this is kind of a giant flaming wreck right now
Katie 01-Aug-19 07:28 PM
who said I even directed that at you?
Karolus 01-Aug-19 07:28 PM
@perplamps So I am wrong. Well, have fun dealing with the aftermath of bad wording and poorly thought out jokes + bad after the fact attitude, even knowing this has to be stressful... 👌 Have a nice day.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 07:28 PM
@gigas, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@gigas said: Strange how they went from "We weren't trying to be condescending" to "**** gAmErS!!"
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:28 PM
we'll be struggling without your patronage, @Karolus
but we'll find a way to get by
DorkOrca 01-Aug-19 07:28 PM
snsksjs
47Ways 01-Aug-19 07:28 PM
There's a certain irony on telling people to care about "real issues" and then tell someone from a third world country that wants to buy the game that they should wait :/
Frisk 01-Aug-19 07:29 PM
Hey @perplamps , can you buy me a copy of the game?
Zync 01-Aug-19 07:29 PM
@seemaq I mean, look at how the devs are responding, They clearly couldn't care less if you buy their game or support them now that they have their epic cash
AndyWood 01-Aug-19 07:29 PM
why is telling someone from anywhere to wait for a game a bad thing?
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 07:29 PM
"they offered us a minimum guarantee on sales that would match what we’d be wanting to earn if we were just selling Ooblets across all the stores. That takes a huge burden of uncertainty off of us because now we know that no matter what, the game won’t fail and we won’t be forced to move back in with our parents (but we do love and appreciate you, parents!)." "It’s also really disappointing to see folks threatening to pirate a game just because they can’t get it on the game launcher they’re used to." These two statements seem contradictory. Epic is giving you enough money to cover a guaranteed amount of sales on their platform. So even if you sell zero copies of the game, you'll still make as much money as you would have if you had sold X number of copies (10,000 or 100,000 or whatever amount they paid you). Since that is the case, does it harm the developers at all if people pirate the game?
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 07:29 PM
@perplamps serious question what about people who use steam universal controller thing to play their games cus of disabilities etc wouldn't moving to EGS be an issue for that
Bexe 01-Aug-19 07:29 PM
@TheKing8426 ooblets isn't developed by epic, nobody's mad that fortnite isn't on steam
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:29 PM
@Zync man I wish we didn't take an epic deal so we would HAVE to care what all the entitled toxic gamers think
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:29 PM
not every game gets successful through goodwill shrug
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 07:29 PM
@perplamps bet brown nosing Epic is worth the money.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:29 PM
of course he is being short with people right now, he's spent the last day getting yelled at by various people, of course the devs are curt
b00 01-Aug-19 07:30 PM
@Zync you couldn't care less until a juicy little Controversy came in so you could get your little self righteousness
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 07:30 PM
@Mashuu wait, isn't it either Taiwan or Republic of China? they call themselves that on their website: https://www.taiwan.gov.tw/
Welcome to the Official Portal Website of the Republic of China, Taiwan. Discover all the government's online information and services here.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:30 PM
@Paladin Knight not sure on the technical side of things, we'll try to support as many controllers as we can
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 07:30 PM
@perplamps aka your customers... What a piece of work.
Gr1d 01-Aug-19 07:30 PM
@Paladin Knight I believe you can add the game in as a steam shortcut and still use the controller.
Deadly Penguin 01-Aug-19 07:30 PM
I don't know what's the point to keep going with the narrative of "baby gamers" or "entitled gamers" and the like, is that really the only thing you see? of course, you don't owe anything no anyone, people that aren't patrons haven't even paid for anything yet, but that doesn't mean you get to treat potential customers, and people who have been here for a while like just a bunch of angry rats that are trying to destroy what you have built, was your original blogpost meant to be condescending? maybe, maybe not, but the attitude you've had through the day against everyone that doesn't agree with you is even more toxic that the one of those you call out so much, as far as I've seen, Ooblets isn't about a person trying to alienate a whole side of it's fanbase, I could be wrong though.
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 07:30 PM
@perplamps I just feel you shouldn’t be surprised when there’s backlash when you make what you know is a controversial decision, and communicate it in a super sarcastic way (even if that’s how you feel) that talks down to the people buying your game
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 07:30 PM
the concept of ppl buying a game and thinking they have power over devs because they may or may not give them money is such a backwards way of thinking that's plagued the game industry for a really long time
Giorno Giovanna 01-Aug-19 07:30 PM
@perplamps Let me give you some friendly advice, and this is coming from someone who used to be in this business. I'm sure the Epic paycheck works as a nice safety net, but professionalism is more important than you think. Interacting with the community is fine, but how you interact with them is important. I guarantee someone is screenshotting all of your replies, and will make them public, adding more fuel to the fire. Bad PR is definitely a bad thing. Do not make the same mistake I made.
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 07:30 PM
@Katie Nobody. Who were you directing that to, anyway? The people who aren't here right now, or the people you think are here right now? Maybe if people like you and ol' Perp didn't immediately go on the "charm offensive" assuming that you're up against the fanfiction villains you're writing into the chat, you might not actually have this sort of response.
hmaon 01-Aug-19 07:31 PM
@jmarieray and they haven't even bought a game yet!
💯 1
Akane 01-Aug-19 07:31 PM
@Bexe to be fair Fortnite is on literally every console and platform including mobile.
Karolus 01-Aug-19 07:31 PM
@perplamps That was funny actually , but try to care more for your costumers and future costumers instead of calling them names , entitled and raging, lol. I would buy popcorn but I have no more fucks to give xD byeeee
47Ways 01-Aug-19 07:31 PM
@AndyWood why is treating your customers from third world countries differentluy from first world ones? Gee I wonder, what a mistery
Zync 01-Aug-19 07:31 PM
@perplamps I can tell you're really serious when your argument is so weak you just call anyone who disagrees with you toxic instead of actually refuting points.
Pin 01-Aug-19 07:31 PM
I've come here not to argue, but to tell the developers that they're wrong about their customer base. You're so sure that anyone who would be unhappy with this agreement you made with Epic or care about this issue are angry entitled gamers who rage about things. You're completely missing the fact that you have some perfectly normal well adjusted fans that were really excited for your game to be out. I was upset when I found out that the game that has been on the top of my wishlist on steam, the platform that I use all the time, is no longer going to be availablee on steam, despite still being on the store. Then I started reading comments from the developers and now I'm just depressed at how little you think of your fans. I don't rage at people. I don't play multiplayer shooter games and call people names. I don't even really play multiplayer games because being a girl in gaming means you get bullied all the time. Now the developers that make the games I love are apparently really into that too. Good luck with Epic. I'm glad that they gave you money because it looks like I won't be.
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 07:31 PM
@Zync i think that's the opposite of a good arugment. the epic games upfront - as to my knowledge - is a sort of buffer because people are upset over nothing. and you've been clear that you dislike the FREE games from the EGS (for some reason?)
Ivory 01-Aug-19 07:31 PM
@Deadly Penguin coping mechanism, it'll backfire short term
Bexe 01-Aug-19 07:32 PM
@Akane yeah but it's developed by epic, it's theirs, ooblets just got moneyhatted and a lot of people weren't expecting it to happen
Kumi 01-Aug-19 07:32 PM
@TheKing8426 Usually when companies give things away for free people rightfully believe something is amiss. I'm gobbling those free games up tho
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 07:33 PM
There is a distinction between the entitled manbabys, and your consumers that have legitimate reasons to disagree with your decision, and lumping them all together is going to come across badly
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:33 PM
@Gambit I mean, that was part of the blog post and pre-emptively addressing things detractors would say (which were strawmen more than anything, honestly)
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 07:33 PM
@Moogle, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Moogle said: no one who actually cares about the game is upset, leave these nice people alone, what the **** is wrong with you all
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:33 PM
@Chris Hansen people really seem to have trouble understanding this. No matter how many times its explained
b00 01-Aug-19 07:33 PM
Steam gives away free games all the time soooo
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 07:33 PM
I love that most of the people claiming to be "long time supporters" of ooblets literally joined the discord.. 20 minutes ago
😂 3
Sneaks 01-Aug-19 07:33 PM
lol at the defense from the mods and devs. Really laughable honestly. They spit in the face of potential customers and then try to laugh it off
ItsMatt 01-Aug-19 07:33 PM
i mean, Steam will be part operated by a chinese company over there, who will have to report to the chinese gov same as Tencent do now they'll have to submit games to the culture ministry like any other company look what happened to the makers of Devotion there's also this, which I think shows how much pressure valve and steam will be under when Steam China launches https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/av3nkq/steam_game_is_now_a_banned_word_on_chinese_social/ (edited)
2,951 votes and 219 comments so far on Reddit
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 07:33 PM
if you're not buying the game exclusively because of it not being on steam, you're still that guy, hate to break it to you 🤷
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 07:33 PM
@gigas I asked that question also but haven't received an answer yet.
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 07:33 PM
We absolutely do care about our customers, but I think most of the angry folks here are not actually our customers
Zync 01-Aug-19 07:33 PM
@TheKing8426 I dont have a problem with the free games other than there is little variety of them. Epic should be doing more of that to try and win customers over instead of paying to keep their games gated.
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 07:34 PM
@nonplayercat Thats because you were my only go to to Sweeney. Randy pitchford ordered a restraining order against me
Frisk 01-Aug-19 07:34 PM
My other account was banned for "trolling"... But sure, if you think that I haven't been following this game since the very beginning, that's fine. Feeling like a piece of trash RN, so thanks.
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 07:34 PM
for real. everyone who supports them and the game is still gonna get it. those throwing a fuss in discord all day are letting the tone of a newsletter smart aren't people who were ever invested in perp and npc to begin with
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 07:34 PM
maybe because pirating games is illegal?
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 07:34 PM
one more question @nonplayercat @perplamps do the people who supported the game on patreon get the game... cus i don't see that on it asking for a friend
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 07:34 PM
@Pin if I could upvote this I would 1000 times.
Akane 01-Aug-19 07:34 PM
@Deadly Penguin I fear this may just be the way this development team goes about it. It might seem lie the best idea now but these kind of rash decisions always end up nipping people in the butt. I don't feel entitled to anything and have supported the game prior but the way the devs reacted to questions like yours makes me wonder if my generosity and support for indie devs is right. I've been burned three times over with yooka laylee, MN9 and now this.
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:35 PM
I don't think it's fair to judge a person's interest in a game based on them spending all day in a private discord or not. Though a lot of people obviously came only for the controversy
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 07:35 PM
@TheKing8426 If you're still insisting that this is just about the game not being on Steam, you can also call yourself one of those "guys" too. There ARE other PC distro platforms!
Deadly Penguin 01-Aug-19 07:35 PM
I've been here for 120 days, I'm subscribed to the newsletter (btw, the message we got sent there was way nicer than the one in the blogpost) and I've known about the game for who knows how much longer, so it truly saddens me to see the reaction of only one of the devs against the community
MaidenOfTheMain 01-Aug-19 07:35 PM
here's my last tidbit about this whole thing for a bit i'm not sure if epic finally added some basic stuff like a shopping cart yet as i don't use it because it's shit, this second image was posted in a server i'm in and i found it just delicious
Zero 01-Aug-19 07:35 PM
Kind of sad this all turned out this way. Best of luck to y’all.
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 07:35 PM
Refusing to believe real fans of your game who don’t like egs exist is willfully ignorant
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 07:36 PM
"The developers aren't being nice to me after I've spent hours harassing them and demanding answers."
😂 4
Zync 01-Aug-19 07:36 PM
@nonplayercat why would people waste their time here if they didn't care or weren't interested in the game, was looking forward to it, honestly didnt know you guys had a discord server until today.
cybrog j 01-Aug-19 07:36 PM
dude these devs are talking huge for what just looks like stardew valley with slay the spire battles
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 07:36 PM
personally @perplamps i think i understand your position, i can even understand that you are angry due to the amount of criticism you received today, and the intention behind the blog post (in line of previous newsletters). I´m 100% sure you and rebecca are great people that are doing the best for their project, a project that i´ve been personally following through newsletters you sent even with there was a mail problem that demanded to suscribe again. But the way you are answering now it´s not helping the image of your project or your image as a dev. Maybe letting this controversy relax is a good option. i don´t think all of the people that disliked the blog post or the way EGS criticism is dismissed are entitled toxic gamers at all. maybe there is room for another posibility, that simply the context surrounding EGS (with legitimate criticism behind it, although surrounded by toxic hate) demanded to be a little more cautious with the announcement. i can guarantee that the people would have understood going exclusive in the situation described, and little to none backslash would have occured. i just think that this kind of responses are doing more bad than good to the game. i hope you don´t take this reply as an attack, but more like an advice. i think the situation is out of control and a little disconnection would be good, reflect on what´s happening and not waste time trying to convince people that don´t want to be conviced. people that want to support ooblets will do it one way or another, but engaging in a discussion in the heat of the moment is not good.
👏 2
Jones 01-Aug-19 07:36 PM
@Deadly Penguin Is this newsletter posted somewhere? Or are you able to share it.
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 07:36 PM
@ @nonplayercat you think, but you do not know, you could be alienating legit fans because you are too stubborn to admit you MAY be wrong, that is the problem here and that is why people had a problem with the original blog post.
Katie 01-Aug-19 07:36 PM
im going to afk now but I really admire that you guys are standing up to this and not backing down , no developer should have to fear mass backlash because they want to make their game without fear of debt
👌 1
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
^
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
Where do we go from here 🚶‍♂️ 🦍
tengblad 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
I've been following Ooblets ever since it was first announced, and all the trailers and gifs have been lovely. I've not been following the dev blog posts or joined the Discord, as that is simply not how I roll, so the Epic Store announcement was the fist one (and I'm sure, many others) read. Perhaps it reads differently to people who've followed the blog for a long time, but to someone for whom it is the first post they read it really comes off as condescending. I understand that feelings are running hot, and that you're going on the defensive, but it might be worth considering the fact that so many people had a similar reaction to that post. I have zero problems with you signing with Epic, and I want you to succeed, but the responses do make me feel less fondly for a game I've been very excited about. (edited)
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
helpful twitter link to know who to block, thanks friend
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
@gigas first off you know why pirating games is bad. boo hiss. @Kumi is playstation doing something wrong? is xbox? they give away free games 🤷 @Zync they're free, my guy. if you don't want them , don't get them, but it's a free game lol i hear that's a pretty good marketing strat @iruma cece okay well if you're complaining you can't get the game on any other platform but EGS, you're still that guy
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
A rather large announcement
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
well guess what I'M A PIRATE COP AND YOU'RE UNDER ARREST. There never even was a game called ooblets, this was all a sting to get you to confess to piracy, and you fell right into the trap
Akane 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
@nonplayercat it's simply because I never really bother joining game discords until either 1. They actually release 2. I have to do an article about them 3. Something drastic changes prior to launch
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
I still have tons of interest in the game. Admittedly less so in the devs after some of the responses, though I understand the frustration (which might make it better to just not engage and drive yourself crazy)
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
blegh just realized turning the 10m chat down set it across all channels
Vajra 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
was gonna say, the responses just kept flowing
Snutt 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
We had this exact same reaction when we launched satisfactory. If people truly want to play a game, they'll play it. Regardless of what distribution platform it uses. And if people truly support their developer of choice, then trust that they're making these types of decisions because it's in the best interest for them and the games they're making.
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seemaq 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
Gamers™, amirite
Deadly Penguin 01-Aug-19 07:37 PM
@Jones the newsletter gets sent to the emails, i can't send you a screenshot because of blocked messages
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 07:38 PM
@Katie be sure to PM me a response to my question from before, tia
Frisk 01-Aug-19 07:38 PM
People are defending the launcher that got my details leaked two times in a row.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:38 PM
no way I can keep up with you folks-- if you can put something rational down in an email, I'll try to respond in same as soon as I can: perplamps@gmail.com
LittleTub 01-Aug-19 07:38 PM
Can you pin that
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 07:38 PM
Also, the two reasons the devs think that people don't use the Epic store do not cover my reasons at all. I don't use it because unlike Steam and GOG, Epic does not answer questions regarding who they share our personal data with. For example, I asked them weeks ago for clarification about who comprises their "family of companies" - because that is not made clear in their privacy policy. I have not received any response.
Justin Meisse 01-Aug-19 07:38 PM
what's with the Epic hate, they've always been really good to developers. If Valve keeps behaving like a mysterious sphynx that doesn't really care if you succeed or fail, more smaller devs are going to go with Epic.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:38 PM
it's already in the description and pinned in other channels
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 07:38 PM
@nonplayercat thats really upsetting to me cus i shared the game around to a lot of people who would be interested in it and a few of them even went to your patreon to be considered not a supporter just cus they aren't in the discord or have just recently joined hearing the news is really awful
AndyWood 01-Aug-19 07:38 PM
@Snutt very true
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 07:39 PM
their service is buggy and leaks details like a sieve, from what I've heard.
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:39 PM
@Snutt I didn't know Satisfactory had a Swedish dev, interesting~
Katie 01-Aug-19 07:39 PM
it was clearly bait, so no, you already knew the answer to that
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 07:39 PM
Oh I got a few things to say alright, but to Tim, not you guys. 做准备,蒂米男孩。
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 07:39 PM
@Paladin Knight that's pretty out of context but do you boo boo
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 07:39 PM
@Zync, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Zync said: @Justin Meisse I used to love epic , unreal tournament and all the cool **** they were doing. Its only the exclusivity stuff that's really soured my opinion of them
mac 01-Aug-19 07:39 PM
absolute last post before I get out, but like a few people have said above, I genuinely had interest in the game, but I essentially got told I actually didn't and was just here to stir a fuss because I spent too much time talking about it in here, I guess. So yeah, I'm a little sad. Sorry things ended up this way.
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 07:39 PM
@Snutt oh snap. Didn't realise you worked on that. Great game. I remember the backlash but people soon got over it and started to enjoy the game.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:39 PM
@Justin Meisse Again the whole " a portion of all money that goes to epic goes onto finance Tencent, known assistant in Chinese human rights violations" is something of a sticking point for some.
Paladin Of Ibuki 01-Aug-19 07:39 PM
@JC_ADX it doesn't matter how you approach it, capital G gamers will always be mad if something isn't on Steam. Doesn't matter if gaming is a business and that the devs first priority is and always will be money, they feel like if it's not on Steam, it's not on PC. Quite frankly, the blog post hit the nail on the head talking about toxicity and entitlement, and if you or anyone else is gonna sit there and get mad you're probably part of the problem
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 07:40 PM
@Paladin Knight I'm not accusing anyone specifically of not being a fan. If you were a fan, that's awesome and we're glad to have you. What I was trying to communicate is that I'd prefer it if people who are only in the discord to stir up anger and who never actually wanted to play Ooblets, would not do that. because it's annoying, obviously
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 07:40 PM
@The ᶜᴵᵀᴿᵁˢ Soul, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@The ᶜᴵᵀᴿᵁˢ Soul said: I never heard of this game until half an hour ago, and I really just came here to see if there was as much buzz as the article made it out to be, which there seems to be. So like, as someone who doesn’t care about egs, steam, or this game, my two cents is that the article was really ** because you called people out on being angry and entitled before anyone even knew there was a problem. You made the decision knowing there would be backlash and lashed out before anyone even had a chance to say anything. I don’t care about epic games exclusives, but the article felt like it was calling me dumb and stupid anyway. “I know that’s asking a lot but I believe in you and your ability to download a free thing and create a user account” is condescending and degrading in a part of the article that’s addressed to literally your entire player base. I agree with the points made in the article, I think signing exclusivity for some funding is a good idea, but the tone of the article was just awful
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 07:40 PM
@Katie Thanks for the honesty, to @perplamps as well. It's refreshing, really.
Raekai 01-Aug-19 07:40 PM
@nonplayercat Agreed. Because they take away from actual long-time fans who have concerns.
Rose7803 01-Aug-19 07:41 PM
Oof... this discord is interesting.. My only 'complaint' with the announcement is that despite the comparison to EGS being like Netflix, even with Netflix exclusive shows, you can still buy those movies or shows elsewhere, like at walmart or on amazon..with EGS you cannot do the same thing..Unless they've decided to release it on Steam later which I have not seen news of yet..
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 07:41 PM
like everyone has said, if you don't like the way the article sounds, it's probably because you don't like the tone of the developers. and that you won't like the tone of the game. that's a personal problem lol
Justin Meisse 01-Aug-19 07:41 PM
@silveralen so you boycott all Unreal Engine games?
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:41 PM
@Rose7803 they don't have purchase parity on those platforms at all. they're ALL timed exclusives
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:42 PM
@TheKing8426 what if I liked the tone of the other posts, tho?
Abyssmo 01-Aug-19 07:42 PM
I guess I’ll find MHO elswhere. Also stop posting pictures of me, you Vietnamese hat making forum.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:42 PM
@Rose7803 the real difference is, it's totally free to install and use EGS
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 07:42 PM
@perplamps "they don't have purchase parity on those platforms at all. they're ALL timed exclusives"
Deadly Penguin 01-Aug-19 07:42 PM
@nonplayercat that's a totally reasonable stand to have, but at the same time, you can't label people without knowing them, sure, there's a lot of people trying to just stir the pot to create more anger, but also people with genuine criticism, although the whole Tencent, China, and stuff like that seems to have gotten waay out of hand, I hope that the development keeps going without much of an issue because i love what you guys are doing
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:42 PM
@Chris Hansen your points make no sense. I said you won't like it because if the tone and messaging of our post upset you, the same will upset you in the game's dialogue and stories
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 07:42 PM
@Deadly Penguin and that's why I didn't address anyone specifically
Pin 01-Aug-19 07:43 PM
I just joined the discord because I followed this game on steam because that is my main platform. I didn't feel the need to speak up until it was very clear that the developers only want to demonize their fan base because they don't like a company. It's very disheartening to see how badly such a cute game dev thinks of their target audience.
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 07:43 PM
@perplamps so is steam even though it litterally has more features than epic games (which does not even have a shopping cart as a refrence or the ability to return games) though your point?
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 07:43 PM
@Mashuu, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Mashuu said: So the story on your game is just ** on people who like video games?
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:43 PM
@Paladin Knight I can't make sense of what you said, sorry
Akane 01-Aug-19 07:43 PM
@Abyssmo pirate MHO3
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 07:43 PM
@perplamps So is your game about gamers ™ who are upset about the exclusivity deals that eliet ooblet farms are cutting with specific distribution channels? I didn't quite catch that from the website.
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 07:43 PM
I don't understand what people use shopping carts for on video game storefronts
Rose7803 01-Aug-19 07:44 PM
@perplamps I get that, I just feel that your example can fall short in some circumstances. I'm still gonna buy the game (considering it doesn't have multiplayer yet, there's no need to be concerned with absent features on EGS) .
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:44 PM
@Mashuu aren't you the guy who thought we couldn't type the word taiwan because we're secret chinese government stooges? -- yes, you will not like the game
Bexe 01-Aug-19 07:44 PM
DLC and sales
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 07:44 PM
You haven't said how long the game is exclusive to the Epic store. Did Epic not give you permission to provide the exact time it will remain an exclusive?
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 07:44 PM
Even the blog post didn't say "all gamers". They were pointing out a particular type of person. If you took offence to it then you're most likely that type of person. If you have legitimate, reasonable concerns then fine but the "GAMERS" in question are people who jump on the hate bandwagon without understanding why they did.
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 07:44 PM
@Chris Hansen Weren't you arrested for larceny
v01ara 01-Aug-19 07:44 PM
This sounds just like the “do you guys not have phones” guy
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:44 PM
@Justin Meisse Ever since I've been made aware epic owns the unreal engine, which admittedly wasn't till very recently
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 07:44 PM
@Paladin Of Ibuki i´m personally not mad with the blog post. but i can understand why some people would not like the approach, and even people that make genuine and valid criticism about EGS that should not be dismissed. as i said before, you can´t convince who doesn´t want to be convinced. but i also understand full well that this is not the context to give proper explanations and the situation is a bit out of control
Raekai 01-Aug-19 07:45 PM
@perplamps Can you guys make a secret channel for non-Gamers™ who feel bummed by the announcement? Or do I have to just wait for things to settle down? 😉
Mashuu 01-Aug-19 07:45 PM
im still confused why the devs made a game where they attack on people who like video games? What will they not like? Are the devs just bullying people who play video games by making a video game?
Gr1d 01-Aug-19 07:45 PM
@silveralen wait until you learn about how much stuff is made in china.
Akane 01-Aug-19 07:45 PM
@nonplayercat it's actually really useful for sales and finding out an exact price of a bunch of games together. Lets say I was spending 250$ on games. I could calculate the price of all the games I want together and then decide if I wanna remove any or add some from there. It's most useful for people who buy bulk during sales or things like the steam summer games competitions.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:45 PM
@Raekai I think at the end of the day, if you're bummed that's totally understandable. it's a mild inconvenience if you have to install EGS to play ooblets and you didn't want to. unfortunately there's not a whole lot to say about it beyond that
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iruma cece 01-Aug-19 07:45 PM
Can we also have a channel for people who do regularly contribute to important causes, especially those you have listed in your post? I'd want in on that.
Justin Meisse 01-Aug-19 07:46 PM
@Gr1d good point, like you could buy the Xbox version but you'd still be playing it on stuff that's made in China
Bexe 01-Aug-19 07:46 PM
@AhadielGames the optics on the term are horrible though, it's like if you were a DNC candidate and your platform involved degrading Democrat Voters™ because you think everyone has a shared understanding of Democrat Voters™ being an explicit subset of democrats
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 07:46 PM
@TheKing8426, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@TheKing8426 said: @Chris Hansen i'm not sure what that even means but i'm sure if you run into anything and respectfully and reasonablly address the problem to the correct people, you'd get help. complaining about the EGS here is not to the right people. ** about the tone is not respectful. idk if you've done that, but other people here have for example i don't think people really believe the devs hate their audience, bc that's such a laughable connection to make. it's an exclusive game now, they have money upfront because of this "guarenteed sale number" mentioned in the article, which i take as a failsafe for the people coming here and saying "wElL iM nOt BuYiNg NoW" and tbh i see nothing wrong with anything the devs have done 🤷 all just drama mamas
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nonosie 01-Aug-19 07:46 PM
The issue here is thinking that supporting a developer = white knighting every mistake they can possibly make. As a client, my instance in a product is totally conditional and if things like this happen (I live in Venezuela and i can't use my credit card to buy games on EGS), then I will speak my opinion here, in twitter or any other place: Thinking that people who state they don't like the changes made, indifferently of their tone, are all gamers™ that just love to hate Epic because yes is sad. (Sorry for all the ortographic errors).
Paladin Of Ibuki 01-Aug-19 07:46 PM
@JC_ADX Of course, you make some valid points yourself, and I must agree there are those who can not be convinced otherwise. I think perhaps in 48 hrs or so when the drama dies down a bit, more questions will be answered
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 07:46 PM
Every site I find news about the Ooblets/Epic business has the same general consensus: We get you needed money and that's all fine and dandy, but there's no need be so condescending about it all. Reading a few of the comments you two have made here, it seems like you still don't really get that.
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 07:46 PM
@perplamps It's not a "mild inconvenience" to use the EGS launcher if you care about the privacy of your personal information, and Epic refuses to answer any question you ask them about who they share your personal information with
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:46 PM
@Mashuu you legit spent like 30 messages on your quest to out us as government spies--- there's no attack on people who play games, it's just that people like you are legit nuts
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 07:46 PM
I mean in the grand scheme of things, it is a mild inconvenience to not have access to a video game (even though I personally disagree with the complaints about the launcher)
Raekai 01-Aug-19 07:47 PM
@perplamps Oh, I know. I just keep crying out to point that there's a bunch of middle-grounders who aren't just trying to whine or rage. Yes, I know nothing can be done, and I am still happy for you guys for having newfound financial security.
jennegatron 01-Aug-19 07:47 PM
The conflating of "announcement" and "article" melts my brain.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:47 PM
@ThreeSon do you actually expect a multi-billion dollar company to reply to your personal messages to them asking you to tell them all their business partners?
DragonfeverVR 01-Aug-19 07:47 PM
clearly very short sighted people in the dev team here, its not just a mild inconvenience for some people let me remind you about this guy who posted earlier https://i.imgur.com/tmHGd4m.png
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:47 PM
@Gr1d @Justin Meisse Again, Tencent goes well beyond most other Chinese companies in aiding the Chinese government's human rights abuses, as I've mentioned multiple times. Also, yes I do tend to avoid purchasing products from other questionable sources, though given how video games are a non essential unlike say food or clothing, I tend to be far more strict in this facet
Frisk 01-Aug-19 07:48 PM
I thought this Discord was going to be nice and everything, but every time one of the Devs messages in this channel it's something mean ;-;
b00 01-Aug-19 07:48 PM
cupcake
seemaq 01-Aug-19 07:48 PM
Are you guys going to be mad at me if I wait for it on steam
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 07:48 PM
"have no other option" i don't think you know what those words mean
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:48 PM
my dudes, no amount of difficult life experiences makes it okay to demand that you get a game
@seemaq nope!
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 07:48 PM
Why wouldn't they? It's explained in their privacy policy to send them an email if we have any questions about their policy. You genuinely think it is unreasonable for a consumer to have a clear understanding of which other companies a multi-billion dollar org like Epic shares our personal information with?
Medea 01-Aug-19 07:49 PM
are people even demanding anything? the deal is done so nothing can be changed people just be salty AF (edited)
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 07:49 PM
I haven't seen anyone demand a game...? Where are you getting that from?
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 07:49 PM
@Paladin Of Ibuki i think that is the key thing: it´s impossible to offer proper explanations in the heat of the moment, with the backslash so recent and the discord full of angry people. you can end up saying things you regret afterwards just because of the angry atmosphere
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:49 PM
@ThreeSon totally reasonable, but not exactly realistic that you'd get what you want
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 07:49 PM
also someone pointed out how EGS are working on that and how at the start it didn't support their currency but now does
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:49 PM
@Pixel Hat really don't know where to start.... let's try this entire discussion from top to bottom
Gr1d 01-Aug-19 07:50 PM
@Pixel Hat I think they wiped the messages that were obvious troll bait, but there have been people in the chat claiming they'll just pirate the game when it's done.
Frisk 01-Aug-19 07:50 PM
I'm not demanding a game, I just want to play Ooblets without getting my EGS account hacked again ;-;
TheMintedLady 01-Aug-19 07:50 PM
I'm not demanding, but I would like some confirmation of the actual timeframe between the Epic release and the Steam release. Is it going to be the standard year, @perplamps? The blog was vague about it. Also, would you consider a Switch release? I just think it would do great there.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 07:51 PM
@TheKing8426, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@TheKing8426 said: I know i can't change the opinion of people coming here with the pure intention of ** about where the game is releasing or the tone of the announement, because neither of those things can be changed 🤷
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 07:51 PM
@Bexe I take it DNC is just a Democratic party? xD Not American. I get what you mean, and a lot of us understand that there is a bit of confusion in the meaning, but there's specific emphasis on a meme type term. It's not, "gamers suck". IT's "GAMERS TM". It's highlighting something. I'm sure you're a nice person and all, but there is a specific type of person that's very obnoxious, and demanding etc. I do get the confusion though. Language can be subjective and especially difficult to convey tones in text.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:51 PM
@Chris Hansen gonna ban you now for advocating for piracy, but first I'm gonna point out that you're saying you're not owed the game, you just are gonna steal it if we don't give it to you on your preferred launcher
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:51 PM
I'm not entirely sure "demanding" is the right word, since I think everyone is aware this is already a thing that has happened. Most are just explaining why we take issue and won't be purchasing said game (and some of the more crass expounding upon how they will pirate it instead)
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 07:51 PM
@perplamps So then you don't think it's a matter of people being "entitled gamers" for simply wanting to know which companies Epic shares our personal information with, correct?
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 07:51 PM
People are upset about the change. Justified, given the sketchy nature of Epic but people understand the financial incentive. Instead of understanding that people are a bit impassioned, you're treating everyone with a problem or concern as a troll it seems.
Pin 01-Aug-19 07:51 PM
No amount of money from epic should give you the motivation to throw your fan base under the bus, tell them they aren't truly interested in your game if their upset, or treat everyone as if their screaming man children for being upset about not being able to play the game on the platform that it was advertised for over a year on
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:51 PM
@TheMintedLady it's going to depend on our timeline as the exclusivity is milestone based
ItsMatt 01-Aug-19 07:52 PM
So depending how it does on EGS it’ll then come to other platforms Hmm, pretty full on (edited)
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 07:52 PM
@perplamps that is not what he said, EGS is not available in every country, he was talking about pirating it in countries you literally cannot buy it in. Are you mental? Get the net!
TheMintedLady 01-Aug-19 07:52 PM
Milestone, as in development milestones or sales milestones?
Bexe 01-Aug-19 07:52 PM
@AhadielGames yeah but i would bet the majority of gamers have no idea what this conversation is about, so they see a dev essentially saying GAMERS SUCK AND ARE DUMB and it feels weirdly aggressive
seemaq 01-Aug-19 07:52 PM
what if you never reach the milestone
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 07:53 PM
@perplamps You do realize that you're making light of a situation where someone actually cannot get access to your game the day it launches, the game they have supported for some time, because the launcher in question doesn't support their region. I get that you feel that you can now say whatever you want, and you have a moderation team who is willing to write play-by-the-post fanfiction in defense of you, but that individual wasn't "demanding" a single thing from you. They were expressing disappointment.
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 07:53 PM
reminder that epic games missed their roadmap 2 months in a row about adding cloud saves https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/ckn6fn/another_month_passed_and_epic_missed_their/
6,155 votes and 1,009 comments so far on Reddit
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:53 PM
so if you don't have a shop selling something in your town, you are free to steal it from black marketers?
Akane 01-Aug-19 07:53 PM
@Paladin Knight that's disheartening.
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 07:53 PM
Hopefully not sales, as unless the game is stellar, you guys seem to have tanked a lot of community goodwill at this point
DragonfeverVR 01-Aug-19 07:53 PM
if thats the only way to get it I'm sure lots of people would turn to the black market for it
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:54 PM
@iruma cece they were specifically saying they would steal the game because it wasn't handed to them on a silver platter. nobody is owed the game one way or another
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 07:54 PM
I wonder how the folks who feel gamers everywhere are entitled access to video games feel about health care.
😂 4
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:54 PM
@perplamps I'm sorry, are you now upset that some people lack access to the poor quality storefront you chose
Pin 01-Aug-19 07:54 PM
If you close down your store front where people have been lined up for like a year, and then yell at everyone waiting outside that they are bad people for being upset about it, that's maybe not a very nice attitude.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:54 PM
@silveralen nope, just saying if you're bragging about stealing stuff, you're a goober
A Guy in Shorts 01-Aug-19 07:54 PM
@perplamps in my town no... In my entire country? Yeah maybe.
Bradman 01-Aug-19 07:54 PM
@perplamps I think you should put this channel on hold, it’s not helping anyone. Just an echo chamber for angry people (at the same time, they’d probably flood general so) just know that all the real fans are supporting you all the way
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deedles 01-Aug-19 07:55 PM
There wasn’t mere disappointment. There was venom and hate
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 07:55 PM
@Bexe but if you don't consider yourself toxic then you shouldn't need take offence. It's sort of like where you see these tweets where women say, "Men are pigs." then you get men yelling, "Woah! NOT ALL MEN!". They clearly don't mean all men but that's just a part of language. Most of the time we don't say, "Some things suck". We just say, "things suck". Again, it's highly subjective. If you go to Scotland, someone might call you a vulgar profanity but there it's just like a normal thing to call someone. No offence taken xD
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Deadly Penguin 01-Aug-19 07:55 PM
wouldn't closing the discussion create an even bigger storm? trying to silence a mob has never gone right
👍 2
seemaq 01-Aug-19 07:55 PM
ok guys, I switch sides
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 07:55 PM
The devs can literally not make epic games move any faster with any potential introducing of their store, so complaining about it is not gonna get you anywhere. you can either get it where you can (egs, console) ... or .. don't? i mean , you can still get the game elsewhere , the EGS is not the end all be all , so to speak
Akane 01-Aug-19 07:55 PM
@AhadielGames perkele
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:56 PM
@Bradman I think it has cooled a bit, but I know some folks will never allow themselves to question their convictions, which is why I offered to let them email me so I can try to talk on a more person-to-person level
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Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 07:56 PM
@seemaq welcome to the switch side
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:56 PM
the mob mentality makes people feel invincible in their opinions
😥 2
@Gambit we will ban anyone advocating for piracy, sorry
Raekai 01-Aug-19 07:57 PM
@seemaq What convinced you to switch sides? Sharing might help others see the same thing you did.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:57 PM
@TheKing8426 are we really arguing the dev has no responsibility for choosing to use a store which makes it entirely inaccessible to others. (edited)
Gr1d 01-Aug-19 07:57 PM
God I wish I could see how many people here actively complaining will still buy the game day 1. It'll be like that "Boycott MW2" steam image where 90% of the group was playing it. (edited)
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JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 07:57 PM
@perplamps i repeat what i said before: it´s not helping at all to engage in this discussion in the heat of the moment. i even read before that patreon money doesn´t matter anymore, the context right now is not the best to be constructive and i can understand that you are frustrated though
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:57 PM
you're not owed the game, whether it's available for purchase or not
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 07:57 PM
@Akane Exactly! Got a few Finnish Twitch friends who use that a lot despite it's original intent xD More like banter to us.
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 07:57 PM
@perplamps Also when you said that we shouldn't expect a billion-dollar company like Epic to respond when we ask them questions about who they share our personal information with.... well Steam and GOG have always answered all my questions about their privacy policy with promptness, so I don't know why Epic should be expected to be an exception (edited)
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 07:57 PM
they chose a store that gave them financial backing, and gives them a better cut on profits. if you were a dev, why wouldn't you do that ?
Commander Cookie 01-Aug-19 07:57 PM
And like.... What if you need to wait a year to play it in your country? You can't decide everything in life....
kejjywithcats 01-Aug-19 07:58 PM
@Gambit the other option is just to wait until it is released on steam, or xbox, etc. Piracy is not the only option
Bexe 01-Aug-19 07:58 PM
@AhadielGames "but if you don't consider yourself toxic then you shouldn't need take offence. " i'm talking about people who don't know that "Gamers™" means something very different than "gamers" to the web-3.0 twitterverse
perplamps 01-Aug-19 07:58 PM
gonna go answer some emails now, try not to get too worked up, folks!
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 07:58 PM
@Kozmosbound Well, I don't personally think that GAMERS™ deserve games no matter what, but I do think that universal healthcare is probably a little more important than just another butt for you to casually bounce jokes off of, lmao.
Freyka 01-Aug-19 07:58 PM
Was the announcement coordinated with patron money time?
Kumi 01-Aug-19 07:58 PM
Steam is not superior for indie devs. They bury them under adult games
👍 1
Pin 01-Aug-19 07:58 PM
"Gamers" is not just people who get headshots in fortnite and yell at other people. Gamers can be grown, mature adults that use games as an escape. They can have reasonable opinions without being blind consumers. The devs on twitter have been outright rude that anyone who doesn't agree with them is just some angry 4chan user and it s u c k s. Your target audience isn't call of duty streamers or hateful manchildren. It's a gentle community of people who like silly cute games. Stop throwing them under the bus with sweeping generalizations and toxic attitudes towards them because they don't agree with your business practices. You've advertised on steam and used the platform as a signal boost for ages. Ooblets only showed up on my radar because of steam. You took their platform, used it for all you could and then dumped them and everyone on it the second someone with more money came along. You're still advertising on it even. That's not an unreasonable thing for people to be miffed about.
pokepixie 01-Aug-19 07:58 PM
The game looks super cute. I’m glad you and @nonplayercat are going to be able to work on it with less stress and at a better pace thanks to having the funds to do so, @perplamps. Indie game development is tough! Not only do you have to work on all aspects of the game, like writing, programming, environments and character artwork, music, but also branding, marketing, working with press—in addition to life stuff! I hope people appreciate how this new funding will help you find a little more work life balance and develop a beautiful game. 💖
❤ 5
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 07:58 PM
we're here for y'all, on whatever platform you launch on. for the dozen up in arms, there's tons of us supporting y'all and the decision you choose to make.
❤ 7
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 07:58 PM
Thanks @pokepixie 😃
Lyserg.Z 01-Aug-19 07:59 PM
There are legit concerns about Epic, but re the regionlocking issue: As someone who doesn't live in the US and has a hard time getting lotsa digital stuff legitimately, that a game/show/whatever isn't available in my region is a total bummer, specially if I was expecting it to be. But ultimately, that's just it, it's a total bummer, and it's just me setting up expecations that had no guarntee to be met. I don't suddenly gain the right to demand that that stuff be given to me, as if it was my government denying me something basic, and not a private company selling entertainment doing private-company-selling-entertainment stuff =/, moreover, in this case it'll prolly be available to me in some time too. If there are other sad stuff happening to me around the regionlocking fact, that too may be a super lame and terrible thing for me, but it's still not something I'd demand the gamedevs deal with. (edited)
silveralen 01-Aug-19 07:59 PM
@TheKing8426 that depends on some factors, but if I did choose to do so I would understand if some fans who literally could not access it in that form chose other methods of acquiring it. I admit to actually being a bit... shocked by that sort of response. Particularly not if some of those people have been crowd funding the project under the impression it would be available to them. (edited)
47Ways 01-Aug-19 07:59 PM
@Kumi wut? Adult games are not even visible on Steam unless the user goes out of their way to enable adult games. The vast majority of Steam users will never touch that option.
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 07:59 PM
@Pin you an i both know that's not the "gamers" we talk about when we say "GaMeRsTM"
Commander Cookie 01-Aug-19 07:59 PM
It's not like it'S NEVER going to come to steam? It's just further down the road. I don't have Epic but one of my favorite game of all times is borderlands... I'll just wait for it to come to steam and voila... I'll have the game! Maybe not when I want it, but it's when the devs have decided 😃 Same here.
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 08:00 PM
@Bexe hence the emphasis and trademark sign. It was a more obvious notation. I do understand your reasoning though. Completely agree that better terms could have been used but just saying that there wasn't the intent there that some people are claiming.
Pin 01-Aug-19 08:01 PM
@TheKing8426 We're being lumped in together because anyone who won't buy the game on epic or voices anything other than blind support is a terrible person and probably wasn't interested in the game anywaystm
kejjywithcats 01-Aug-19 08:01 PM
@Gambit sure people will try to do it, but acting like it is the ONLY option and you are forced to do it? quite the exaggeration
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 08:01 PM
@Pin Where does it say that?
nonosie 01-Aug-19 08:02 PM
Again, supporting a developer/being a real fan ≠ white knighting their mistakes and thinking everyone who critizices is a troll or a gAmErr™
47Ways 01-Aug-19 08:02 PM
@Commander Cookie some of the people in here claim if you're a "real fan" you'd buy on EGS, and that anyone who wants the game will buy it there. If this is true why would they even release on Steam?
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 08:02 PM
@silveralen look, i don't know if you know, but pirating games is always bad. like, always. doesn't matter what your justification is, stealing - where there a rules outlawing stealing - is bad and i don't think that should be such a hot take 😂 @Pin no you're not. you're lumping yourself in because you want to start an argument. if you have reasonable objections, and are being respectful and inquisitive, you're not a GAMERtm. but since you are, you are 🤷 just calling a spade a spade my man
DragonfeverVR 01-Aug-19 08:02 PM
Some of these replies are making me lose brain cells, you guys are literally defending something that is making pc gaming worse and more inaccessible to everyone when better stores already exists, insanity...
cob 01-Aug-19 08:02 PM
whats up gaymers yall still EPIC or naw
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 08:02 PM
@Koelsch, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Koelsch said: @Pin you stupid beta manlet its a matter of principle. something you Lads never heard of while tipping with your fedora you fat ****
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:02 PM
@Raekai Idk, I just realized I don't have to support Epic to play Ooblets. I don't really mind waiting for it to get on Steam. Kinda silly, I know (edited)
Bexe 01-Aug-19 08:02 PM
@AhadielGames yeah the TM is just to clearly denote the anti-toxicity tone of that version of the word the second flaw is that it makes it very easy to lump any criticism at all into the basket of deplorables or whatever people call that kind of thing these days, game looks neat and i don't like EGS and thus i am a toxic Gamer
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:03 PM
@seemaq nothing wrong with that
silveralen 01-Aug-19 08:03 PM
I... really do feel the need to sum up that exchange. People feel that the devs, who have gotten crowd funding for their game, switching distribution methods to make a game inaccessible to people who have previously supported them, have a right to be upset at people qho use other methods to acquire the game? When the devs also said the change has ensured they will be fine financially? (edited)
Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:03 PM
@Commander Cookie Same thing I'm doing for Borderlands 3. Was bummed about the exclusivity deal, but I'm just gonna have to wait for this great game. https://imgflip.com/i/371ord
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:03 PM
@seemaq from the sounds of the developer responses, it might not come to any other storefront... they haven't really explained how long the exclusivity period will be... something about milestones but they won't or can't clarify that
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 08:03 PM
@Raekai bruh, i told you to shop in that switch playing Three Houses for me, I haven't even finished one route yet ; ;
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 08:04 PM
@silveralen devs have a right to be upset at people illegally stealing copies of their game, YES, 100 TIMES YES !
Pin 01-Aug-19 08:04 PM
I made a very resaonably worded and not angry response of feedback and the developer shot back with "haha look at these people who claim to be a supporter of ooblets but only just joined the discord". That's lumping. They're taking any feedback at all and tossing it in a "angry gamers" bin no matter how reasonable. Because I guess we're all the same.
jennegatron 01-Aug-19 08:04 PM
The reading comprehension levels are basement tier! Video games were a mistake.
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:05 PM
@ThreeSon they've pretty much told us everything they're allowed to say based on the NDA they signed, so anything beyond that is a mystery
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 08:05 PM
@Bexe nah, it's more the people that jump on the bandwagon and hate on it without understanding why. Hate for the sake of hate kind of trolling. Nothing wrong with having legitimate concerns. If you genuinely dislike EGS then that's fine. It sucks that you'll have to wait but that's just the business decision they made for what they felt was a good move for them.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 08:05 PM
@TheKing8426 ... I assume you also take issue with "pirating" abandonware games?
Akane 01-Aug-19 08:05 PM
So I get it. We're not entitled to games but what about gfs?
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:05 PM
@Medea They haven't said why they can't explain it. It might be the NDA or it might be that they just don't want to tell people.
Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:05 PM
@iruma cece Shhhh... You didn't see anything... @ThreeSon I'm pretty sure they said it was because of the NDA. (edited)
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 08:06 PM
@silveralen i take issue with stealing so however you want to try and twist that lol 🤷 i didn't think the phrase "hey you , you shouldn't steal that" was controversial lol
snurfler 2
Gr1d 01-Aug-19 08:07 PM
That is a reasonable response @seemaq. I'd like to take this time to plug /r/patientgamers where you can learn that gaming is best done slow. Same games, cheaper prices, and less bugs. (but like buy this one if you wanna support it day 1!) I think many folk tend to tie their self-image a bit too much to their hobbies. So when they read "Gamers might get mad" they take it as a personal offense as if they're saying "John Smith is a dumb dumb". What they should do is vote with their wallet. Don't like Epic to the point you don't want to buy any games off their store? Great! Don't! It will probably show up on other storefronts later. There are thousands of other games to play to fill the time.
Bexe 01-Aug-19 08:07 PM
@AhadielGames i presume that happens on both sides, maybe not to the same degree but definitely in the same way, people who see a cute game getting attacked and love it for the sake of loving it like obviously there's a lot of bandwagoning going on on the negative side, but that's more or less proportional to the ratio of epic-hating gamers and cute-game-loving customers
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:07 PM
thanks @perplamps 😃 (edited)
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:07 PM
@Raekai Where did they say it was because of the NDA?
Akane 01-Aug-19 08:07 PM
BASED
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 08:08 PM
Boy, it really is the people who you would expect, huh?
perplamps 01-Aug-19 08:08 PM
took care of it, thanks @Medea
Bree 01-Aug-19 08:08 PM
I picked a bad day to join the Discord
😭 2
perplamps 01-Aug-19 08:08 PM
haha
AndyWood 01-Aug-19 08:08 PM
welcome bree!
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 08:08 PM
@Bexe I won't deny that. I'm sure a lot of people do that. Just need to hope you can find the right balance of arguments 😛
silveralen 01-Aug-19 08:08 PM
@TheKing8426 ... yeah no that's absurd. there are absolute times breaking the law is acceptable. Ethical absolutes are absurd
Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:08 PM
Blatant racism doesn't belong here. Wow. (That was about the removed posts.) @perplamps told @Medea earlier that it was because of the NDA. You can find it if you search "NDA". (edited)
perplamps 01-Aug-19 08:08 PM
bree you havent come here to yell at us too have you
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 08:08 PM
It's not always like this, Bree. Promise.
Gr1d 01-Aug-19 08:09 PM
Usually it's just like fanart and excitement about new ooblet gifs.
Kumi 01-Aug-19 08:09 PM
🔥 🔥 wigglewip 🔥 🔥
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:09 PM
@Raekai I can't believe you remembered that
jennegatron 01-Aug-19 08:10 PM
Soon the Gamers™ will move on to be mad about something else. Like not enough cleavage on their waifus.
Moogle 01-Aug-19 08:10 PM
if I've learned anything from today its that gamers aren't oppressed, but they should be
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:10 PM
@Raekai I searched for NDA but the only results are people asking questions about it. What was the response from the developer?
Akane 01-Aug-19 08:10 PM
🤝 💸 🇮🇱 (edited)
Bree 01-Aug-19 08:10 PM
@perplamps Only to yell about how happy I am for you!!
❤ 8
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 08:10 PM
omg bree's here best day
dumbirb 1
sa 01-Aug-19 08:10 PM
Epic fail
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 08:11 PM
@TheKing8426 , some games aren't sold anymore and aren't available to be purchased on modern day storefronts. And after a point, pre-digital store games don't give the devs/publishers any money as the production of the game disks has ended. take Battlefield 2142 for example. Can't get it on steam, can't get it on Origin, but it's still played today. Or Halo PC/Halo 2 PC, both abandonware if it's not longer sold anywhere, it ain't theft, as it's no longer an available product. and games shouldn't just die because they aren't being sold. This is why emulators exist, and its why fans maintain and patch abandonware games.
pieceofshof 01-Aug-19 08:11 PM
bree thank u for existing and making most oobs
grebun 1
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 08:11 PM
@jennegatron lmao, how do you function? You do realize there are plenty of people who are upset that aren't obsessed over crap like that, right?
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:11 PM
All Hail the Oobmother
Jones 01-Aug-19 08:11 PM
@Moogle That's quite a quote.
RaspberyPhoenix 01-Aug-19 08:11 PM
What was happening though, congrats on the partner with epic but things went very poorly very fast on this chat I dont understand where it went all wrong
Kumi 01-Aug-19 08:12 PM
Epic making enemies with everyone
Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:12 PM
@Medea I am all over this. I have wasted an entire day on this situation. Lol. @ThreeSon Shoot, you're right. It's not specifically about the milestone part—it was directly about funding, which I assumed went hand-in-hand. Though, I think it might follow that the NDA would cover the milestone if it covers funding.
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 08:12 PM
when they partnered
jennegatron 01-Aug-19 08:12 PM
I function extremely well. Mostly by not being mad about video games being sold in a different store than I wanted.
legsyrun 1
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:12 PM
what's wrong with being a gamer? @TheKing8426 you're wrong tho, we should preserve games (edited)
Moogle 01-Aug-19 08:12 PM
@Jones thanks, make sure you cite me properly if you wanna use it
TheKing8426 01-Aug-19 08:12 PM
look, i'm gonna mute, because i got actual things to do today lol but someone advocating for literally stealing shouldn't be here at all lol - devs, you're on the right path. indie work is tough and i'm excited for all that's next ♥
Green 01-Aug-19 08:13 PM
gamers smell
SuperDingler 01-Aug-19 08:13 PM
disagree = manchild
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 08:13 PM
Seriously. Why are people acting holier than thou. It doesn't help the situation and makes it obvious you don't want to listen to the concerns of those who are diacontent
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 08:13 PM
honestly, I think this whole thing was just a publicity stunt. controversy = interest after all.
RaspberyPhoenix 01-Aug-19 08:13 PM
I mean what does it matter, if they cared about the game why not just get it on epic instead I dont see how much doing stuff there would actually change things for pc
Bexe 01-Aug-19 08:14 PM
in a manner of speaking, pirating before buying it on steam is just a demo
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:14 PM
@Raekai Well, I'd prefer to have a clear answer from the developer. We were supposed to go here to ask questions about this whole thing, but then I don't know what the point was if those questions aren't going to be answered. I guess maybe the whole "I figured I’d share our thoughts and have an open conversation about the issues" bit from the blog post was just PR-speak
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 08:14 PM
@jennegatron I dunno, you seem to have a serious problem with projecting what you think a person is mad about as a way to try and deflect criticism of something you care about. Usually I see this attitude from Trump voters, I didn't expect it here.
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 08:14 PM
No, it's stealing still dtdemonLUL
jennegatron 01-Aug-19 08:14 PM
Gamers go poopy in their diapies
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:14 PM
if you play games you're a gamer
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 08:15 PM
I resent the accusation!
Bree 01-Aug-19 08:15 PM
Ooblets are so cute
silveralen 01-Aug-19 08:15 PM
I'm still trying to wrap my head around "People who pirate this game are evil, even if they were crowd funding it previously, even if the late change to distribution method has made it literally impossible for them to purchase it legitimately, and even though the change itself has already ensured the developers financial security" (edited)
cob 01-Aug-19 08:15 PM
how was your lunch perp
Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:15 PM
@jennegatron I feel personally attacked because I enjoy my diaper life, okay?
👶 1
jmarieray 01-Aug-19 08:15 PM
wait, we're talking about video games here? heck
radladlaugh 1
Exima 01-Aug-19 08:15 PM
i mean- it's not 100% wrong... piracy is stealing since you're consuming the product without paying for it. @silveralen
nerdinclass 01-Aug-19 08:15 PM
I just don’t trust epic because of the data mining scandal, is the game also going to be available on steam or else where?
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:17 PM
can I just say I am so done with self-aware ironic fandoms (like the "omg anime is trash yet I actually watch anime though only some of them")
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 08:17 PM
Considering that some of the criticism is valid is a good starting point. But The context right now is not The right one for a constructive discussion
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 08:17 PM
can we try to keep it civil here? the attacks on people you don't like helps no one, and neither does the whole "Gamers suck lol" stuff. It's toxic, and only helps to escalate the situation. And also makes you look like a complete dolt. So please, keep it civil, and use actual arguments/complaints.
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:17 PM
@Exima At least from their explanation, people who pirate the game apparently won't be harming the developer at all, since they get the guaranteed payment from Epic.
Kumi 01-Aug-19 08:17 PM
@nerdinclass I dont think Epic spies on you anymore than Windows 10 does
Bexe 01-Aug-19 08:17 PM
i'm not sure if that sounds worse for epic or microsoft
silveralen 01-Aug-19 08:17 PM
@LSWraith I don't think you should tell the devs how to behave in their chatroom lol
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 08:18 PM
I don't get the name-calling. People have concerns and instead of listening, people call "troll!" or bring in diapers for some reason
👶 1
Exima 01-Aug-19 08:18 PM
@ThreeSon welp, just more reason to go epic exclusive innit. also @nerdinclass any launcher does the same datamining. Epic isn't exclusive (see what i did there ayy) to that.
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 08:18 PM
@silveralen if the devs are nice to their community the community will be nice back it's that simple..
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 08:18 PM
No. They get a smaller upfront payment, and more for meeting sales targets. The sales still need to go through for Epic etc to make money. If you pirate it, you're taking money from one or both parties. (edited)
SuperDingler 01-Aug-19 08:18 PM
because legit concerns and disappointment = manbaby gamer bad
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:19 PM
this is now a diaper enthusiast community. Ooblets are dead. Long live the Ooblets.
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 08:19 PM
@LSWraith lmao it's cool for specific groups of people to be made fun of if the mods work together to write their own fanfics about it in real time.
👶 3
nerdinclass 01-Aug-19 08:19 PM
Steam has a wealthy new competitor — but is it competing fairly?
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:19 PM
@Kumi I don't use Windows 10, but I also know that Windows 10 doesn't require you give your real name in order to use it @AhadielGames How do you know that? Have the developers explained how the payments are given to them from Epic?
silveralen 01-Aug-19 08:20 PM
@AhadielGames we were discussing that in context with people who live inareas the epic games store is literally inaccessible.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:20 PM
you guys play games, right? @nerdinclass its going to be on steam (edited)
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 08:20 PM
@ThreeSon Saying it's okay to steal from indie devs because they have the minimum funding they needed is a bad take.
Akane 01-Aug-19 08:20 PM
@seemaq nah, I just write about games I never played and give it reviews based on how much I'm paid (edited)
SuperDingler 01-Aug-19 08:20 PM
@Rhubarbist i thought epic paid for the sales though 😃
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 08:21 PM
@ThreeSon "it's a minimum guarantee but we have some upfront money and the rest is through a milestone system" is what Perplamps said.
Kumi 01-Aug-19 08:21 PM
@SuperDingler Epic bought a bunch of copies that -they- own. Not you lol
Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:21 PM
Wrong: "Gamers bad!" Wrong: "Epic bad!" Right: "Here's a polite explanation of my feelings: [insert here]."
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:22 PM
The sensible middle shudders
❤ 3
nerdinclass 01-Aug-19 08:22 PM
I feel like i did the right response also glad it’s going to be on steam
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:22 PM
@Rhubarbist I don't think it's "okay" and I never said that. (except that piracy is copyright infringement, not stealing... there is a substantial difference) But the developers said themselves in the blog post that it doesn't matter how many copies they sell, since they get the payout from Epic no matter what @AhadielGames Yes, and then they were asked to clarify whether the "milestones" refers to sales milestones or development milestones, and there was no answer to that at all (edited)
perplamps 01-Aug-19 08:22 PM
development milestones, answered many times
❤ 7
Moogle 01-Aug-19 08:23 PM
real gamers care about the people who make games
perplamps 01-Aug-19 08:23 PM
@Ken Kun gamer isn't a bad thing, but it's a shorthand a lot of folks use to describe a certain type of person. i referred to Gamers(tm) under the assumption people would get what i meant
Bexe 01-Aug-19 08:23 PM
@Ken Kun gamers are bad because some people who are gamers said bad things, it's basically how racism works
sa 01-Aug-19 08:23 PM
@perplamps I'm happy for you with this deal but will patiently wait for release on another store derp_cry
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 08:23 PM
@jennegatron sick reaction emote, yer doin' terrific. Maybe you can find something to ban me for, already had one of you claim I was harrassing a dev. @Raekai people have been doing that, and an actual developer said that their claims didn't matter. Or they didn't actually answer the posts being made (a @TucanSam specialty) and instead went off on a tangent about something nobody was actually talking about, lmao
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 08:23 PM
@perplamps so basically group everyone together got it
Akane 01-Aug-19 08:23 PM
@Ken Kun gamers have always been oppressed. Nowadays it's basically being called an Incel and incels are just a nice way to call you unstable/school shooter.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 08:23 PM
which is, the negative connotations people have about frothing at the mouth 4chan/reddit folks
KaySuave 01-Aug-19 08:23 PM
@Ken Kun it’s because that’s a fast way call someone who didn’t like the exclusivity deal.
Cybo 01-Aug-19 08:23 PM
This is the best thing ever I love you
jennegatron 01-Aug-19 08:23 PM
What a wild false equivalence!!!
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 08:23 PM
the problem with that, is that people tend to misuse the term, and apply it to people who have legitimate grievances and complaints
Snagglewolf 01-Aug-19 08:23 PM
Hahaha sorry just read the "that's the same as racism" bit (edited)
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:24 PM
@perplamps Okay that's the first I've heard that answer so I'm sorry if it was said before... maybe add that to the blog post? So, how long does the exclusivity deal last then? One year from the time you release the 1.0 version on Epic? (edited)
AC3Productions 01-Aug-19 08:24 PM
There's no way that people actually think gamer oppression is real Please be joking
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 08:25 PM
Some people subbed to /r/gamersriseup and missed the satire
Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:25 PM
@iruma cece That's my current frustration too, but I'm hoping that, as the trolls go away, the actual fans with actual concerns will actually be able to express their feelings and not feel dismissed by others.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 08:25 PM
some people are indeed absurdly stupid
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 08:25 PM
I have been playing games since i was 4 and i dont see myself represented in the term “gamer”
nerdinclass 01-Aug-19 08:25 PM
I feel like there should be a pinned post with what questions have already been asnwered
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 08:25 PM
I hope we nationalize Epic Games
Akane 01-Aug-19 08:25 PM
@AC3Productions only us girlgamers are oppressed desu. Have you ever played n online game?
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 08:25 PM
Why am I getting pinged when I'm not even discussing here anymore 🤔
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:26 PM
because we live in a society or something
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:26 PM
4chan is only as bad as the people who post there. You can be nice to others there tbh
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 08:26 PM
Did you suppress them and limit to tags only? 😛
Frisk 01-Aug-19 08:26 PM
@TucanSam hi!
Bexe 01-Aug-19 08:26 PM
@seemaq there are dozens of us!
Green 01-Aug-19 08:27 PM
gamers smell
Akane 01-Aug-19 08:27 PM
@Frisk bad
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 08:28 PM
No, I don't block people unless they cross the line completely.
Sunslammer 01-Aug-19 08:28 PM
epic bad
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 08:28 PM
@Bexe Aren't you the person who just equated making a joke about Gamers(tm) with racism?
silveralen 01-Aug-19 08:28 PM
I've never once been glad to meet someone who introduced themselves as a gamer. People who tell me they like games, sure, but if they call themselves a gamer it never goes well
👍 4
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:28 PM
I had to block that person posting genital surgery pics or w/e
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 08:28 PM
@Raekai I have to wonder, how many actual fans hung around here before The Post? I imagine that this is the busiest it has ever been. The fact that so much additional attention is being paid to the game in light of something that could be considered a negative ought to be a clue. @TucanSam because you're an easy punching bag for trying to argue BS instead of actually answering what I've said in the past, and you respond when pinged. You also deserve to be needled for it constantly.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:28 PM
also from now on gamer (without the trademark) doesn't mean poopyhead
Bexe 01-Aug-19 08:29 PM
@Rhubarbist it was half a joke, but the non-joke half was how racism arises from conflating the actions of a few from a group with the actions of the entire group
jennegatron 01-Aug-19 08:29 PM
That's not how racism happens.
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 08:29 PM
Very agreed, Green, g*mers do smell. Anyway, if y'all gave one one-hundredth of a heck about your rights being taken away by corporate interests as you seem to care about a game?? changing its distribution??? platform???? and the devs flossing at you in a gif??????????????? then maybe we could fix some of these problems that you mistake for greed (edited)
Cybo 01-Aug-19 08:30 PM
Facts : people don’t like epic store not because of exclusives but because fortnite bad >:((((
Moogle 01-Aug-19 08:30 PM
if we just abolished capitalism, none of this would have happened
sa 01-Aug-19 08:30 PM
Big difference between Gamers and GamerGuys™
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:30 PM
#MakeGameDevSocialist
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 08:30 PM
@sheeep, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@sheeep said: i'm mostly just here with popcorn to watch but holy **** was that post the devs made condescending af
GammaGames 01-Aug-19 08:30 PM
I don't think anyone actually cares about a flossing gif lmao
JC_ADX 01-Aug-19 08:30 PM
Thats only a part of the theory of social dynamics in psychology, racist behavior is was more complex
Green 01-Aug-19 08:31 PM
@Moogle comrade ☭
Bexe 01-Aug-19 08:31 PM
@jeannette is "induced racism" semantically precise enough for you?
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:31 PM
@Jacobim One of the consumer rights I care about being taken away is having a clear and understandable privacy policy, and having the companies responsible for those privacy policies respond when I, the consumer, have a question about it. Epic does not respond to questions about their privacy policy at all.
silveralen 01-Aug-19 08:31 PM
I was unaware it was supposed to be flossing. I spent a solid minute staring at it, trying to figure out if it was supposed to have sound and if the soundwas what made it make sense. (edited)
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 08:31 PM
I think you're thinking of negative stereotyping? And that's not what that was or what racism is.
👍 1
Frisk 01-Aug-19 08:32 PM
Aren't these "Sweaty Mean Gamers" you guys are making fun of just people too...? Isn't the right thing to do is to say nothing at all...?
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 08:32 PM
I love how the game moves from one crap platform to another crap-but-different platform and people come out of the woodwork to protest Epic
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 08:32 PM
@Jacobim It would be cute, you posting "maybe if u cared about teh real issues they wuld get solvd", if it actually was an argument and not just a vapid attempt to actually smother any criticism.
Moogle 01-Aug-19 08:32 PM
I floss on the gamers
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:32 PM
I should floss more
sheeep 01-Aug-19 08:32 PM
i'm mostly just here with popcorn for the drama but man was that post the devs made condescending af
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 08:33 PM
If we say nothing at all we get accused of avoiding criticism🤔
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:33 PM
can you stop with the communist propaganda already
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:33 PM
@Jacobim One of the reasons Epic is a crap platform is because they do not respond to questions about their privacy policy. Both GOG and Steam do respond, promptly and clearly.
Cybo 01-Aug-19 08:33 PM
I’m mostly just here because I’ve been following ooblets for 2 years and I never knew there was a discord and I’m really really happy that the game has good funding now ☺
ZAAALLGO 01-Aug-19 08:34 PM
So long ooblets. See you when you're back on steam
👋 2
skuffalo 5
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 08:34 PM
@seemaq remember when you said me linking a wiki article on "capitalism" was communist propaganda lmao holy heck someone find this man more boots (edited)
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 08:34 PM
@TucanSam No, you get criticized specifically for shifting the goal posts and trying to make the conversation (or indeed what people have actually said) about something else entirely, my dude.
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:35 PM
Here's another question: Will the developers of Ooblets be providing technical support for Epic store customers via the Steam discussion forums?
hehe 6
Frisk 01-Aug-19 08:35 PM
I just feel like a ton of people on both sides are being super condescending and mean to eachother... Everyone should look back on what that said a couple days later and ask if it made the world a better place by saying it!
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:35 PM
@Jacobim I wasn't reffering to that post tho🤔
Moogle 01-Aug-19 08:36 PM
b o t h s i d e s
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 08:36 PM
moogle you're good
sa 01-Aug-19 08:37 PM
E L E C T R O N I C. A T H L E T E.
nonosie 01-Aug-19 08:37 PM
gaymer™
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:37 PM
@Moogle probably the only time there's some truth to that 🤔
Justin Meisse 01-Aug-19 08:38 PM
I think a big misunderstanding between devs and gamers is we see Epic as a really good company, like the Pixar of games.
Sunslammer 01-Aug-19 08:38 PM
Epic bad
Scylla 01-Aug-19 08:38 PM
don't mind me, only got here to check if those "we don't owe you/need patreon charity" prints were true, PR team 10/10
Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:38 PM
I think it can be summed up as this: (1) Some people don't like EGS, Epic, Tencent, etc. Probably for some good reasons, but I won't get into that. (2) Some people feel like there has been a minor bait and switch because the devs have led them to believe that Ooblets would launch on steam. (3a) Some people felt like the humor in the blog post was in bad taste. (3b) Some people feel like the responses from the devs have had a poor tone. Now, in each of these ideas, there is legitimate concern, surely. The legitimate concern is being drowned out by the trolls, which is unfortunate because the legitimate concern is likely coming from long-time fans who have also supported the game through Patreon and/or buying merchandise (like myself) and feel like they already have money or stake in this. (I get it. I don't support/like/trust Epic, but I do support/like/trust Ooblets. Even then, I don't want to download another launcher—I don't want to use EGS for games when I have Steam like I don't want to use Facebook for communication when I have Gmail.) Ultimately, the devs aren't going to undo this deal with Epic. Why would they? It's great for them! (And that makes me happy.) It's just inconvenient for me and for some others. (And that makes me bummed.) According to the devs, the game will eventually be coming to Steam. The exclusivity ends after an undisclosed milestone. That's it. Are the devs jerks? Is Epic bad? Are gamers bad? How many of these people are trolls? I don't have strong answers for those. Please let me know if I missed anything. (edited)
sadaNice 4
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 08:38 PM
Yes, both sides. Condescension and Insults don't help this discussion in any way shape or form, and dismissing criticism as being from the "dreaded Gamer™" is not helpful. Just as insulting those who do have good responses on the other side. The point is that if you aren't actually contributing to the conversation, then don't input your snide comments. They don't help.
Cybo 01-Aug-19 08:39 PM
This is literally the dumbest thing I’ve seen in my entire life
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:39 PM
@Raekai You missed the part about Epic not disclosing who they share users' personal data with
Frisk 01-Aug-19 08:39 PM
I think the way Ben and Rebecca went about this was really jerkish. They don't deserve to be attacked though, they are awesome people! Don't deny that some of the things said on both sides were not meant in mean spirit!
Moogle 01-Aug-19 08:39 PM
can I take a moment to complain about Electron? like seriously why does atom take up like a gig of ram I'm only trying to edit a 2kb file here, it's pretty rubbish why has this become a standard almost
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 08:39 PM
@Raekai and also getting info from stealing info from peoples steam accounts and selling it
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:40 PM
@Justin Meisse I think both gamers AND devs used to feel that way about Epic...until more recent history
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 08:40 PM
@LSWraith Well, good luck actually getting in a word edgewise, you have a moderation team here that is willing to carry water for the devs and participate in that same behavior you're calling out. It's the environment they want, and they'll get it in response until they ultimately decide to just ban folks for not being part of the "team."
Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:40 PM
@ThreeSon and @Paladin Knight "(1) Some people don't like EGS, Epic, Tencent, etc. Probably for some good reasons, but I won't get into that." I have similar concerns. I get it. But I don't know for certain how legitimate those claims are, so I didn't name those issues there even though I don't like EGS for the same reasons.
Sunslammer 01-Aug-19 08:41 PM
I had this game in my steam wishlist since 2017 haha guess I'll have to wait 2+ years more haha
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:41 PM
@Raekai dude, your name's shiny now wtf
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:41 PM
I'm still wondering whey they aren't being more specific about how their development milestones affect the length of the exclusivity deal.
BIGFICK 01-Aug-19 08:42 PM
Nobody DESERVES anything. Ugh. Signed up here just to stave the ENTITLEment of neckbeared games. Shame on you, you know who you are. The lovely developers here are an inspiration for girls everywhere, to get into to coding. This entitlement I feel has come from the free market. Capitalism. This is exactly why I voted for Bernie Sanders in 2016 and will do so again. It's time to group up as a nation, and expunge this ENTITLEment for games. If that means purging the Gamers, so be it.
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 08:42 PM
it probably isin't gonna sell unless epic makes it free
Jacobim 01-Aug-19 08:42 PM
bigfick u r wrong lol
Moogle 01-Aug-19 08:42 PM
abolish gamers
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Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:42 PM
@seemaq I am Raekai, Paragon of the Middle Ground. Nah, I don't really know why.
Cybo 01-Aug-19 08:43 PM
Have you guys been eating enough fruits and veggies lately. It’s important. Also make sure to shower
Snagglewolf 01-Aug-19 08:43 PM
Good advice
Sunslammer 01-Aug-19 08:43 PM
I dont shower
DorkOrca 01-Aug-19 08:43 PM
please shower...
Medea 01-Aug-19 08:43 PM
Shower and deodorant, every Gamer's kryptonite
Green 01-Aug-19 08:43 PM
gamers take a shower challenge
😂 1
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:43 PM
@Raekai guess they gave u a star belly role. try to emote at something (edited)
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anosmicanimator 01-Aug-19 08:44 PM
radladlaugh 1
nonosie 01-Aug-19 08:44 PM
“Don't criticize them, the fact that they have been good with their white knights invalidates all the condescending messages, post and articles!!!!!” Gaymerz™ are really, really bad.
Moogle 01-Aug-19 08:44 PM
just reminding yall to stay in school, don't do drugs, eat your teeth
Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:45 PM
@seemaq Hecc ye.
A literal cat 01-Aug-19 08:45 PM
Eat your what now?
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 08:45 PM
I've said it before, and I've said it again, the "gamers suck lol" comments don't help, and don't progress the conversation. Be civil, and be respectful.
Cybo 01-Aug-19 08:45 PM
Gamers suck lol
Danctheduck 01-Aug-19 08:45 PM
Just came here to offer a lot of love to the Ooblets team. They did 100% the right thing and the financial stability will result in a better game. For those who care about great games (and Ooblets being great), this is a wonderful development. Big hugs sent.
❤ 4
Sunslammer 01-Aug-19 08:45 PM
Epic games paid exclusivity for my bathroom, can't shower
MotoLAD 01-Aug-19 08:45 PM
B O T H S I D E S
Green 01-Aug-19 08:46 PM
gamers reminder to use deodorant while you shout abuse and racial slurs over the internet, good luck 💞
😂 1
👍 1
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 08:46 PM
anti-anti-EGS: uhh theyre smelly and um uh we dont like
BIGFICK 01-Aug-19 08:46 PM
Honestly, I think this nation needs to take positive steps against this entitled mentality. We should be looking to what EUROPE are doing- banning hate speech. It is UNACCEPTABLE to harrass devs on twitter because you "deserve" this game- you don't. Simple as. Now you can argue how you like, but I only see ONE group of people acting in this savage manner. So called "gamers". You know what I would do? Ban them all. Every last one of them, and harvest those sweet tears. They deserve it.
Astorica 01-Aug-19 08:46 PM
Really upset this is where they're going with it. The "this is how we can guarantee sales" line, just sounds like you guys don't have confidence in your game despite how much support I've seen from the community and Discord. Also the jokes in the article were kind of lame. I don't trust EGS, I don't want to have a account with them especially after multiple friends have had their accounts hacked and information stolen, definitely don't want that launcher on my computer. I know they probably won't read this though, it seems like the designated "quarantine chamber" they opened to keep it all in here and avoid talk about it. And that everyone upset is just being labeled as a sweaty smelly neckbeard gamer boys (when most people interested in the game I've seen tend to be females) is really disheartening. I've been following the development for a while but now I'm probably going to forget about the game. Maybe in a few years I'll see it go on sale and pick it up on Steam. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
👌 3
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 08:47 PM
i love this open discussion with the devs that aren't here anymore btw
Frisk 01-Aug-19 08:47 PM
This is really mean spirited... Apparently I won't be able to call myself an Ooblets fan anymore, if it makes me associated with mean people.
👶 1
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:47 PM
@Paladin Knight e-mail them
nonosie 01-Aug-19 08:48 PM
The smell of gaymerz™ make them go away.
ThreeSon 01-Aug-19 08:48 PM
@seemaq I'm writing one now, but the way this has been going, I expect they will ignore all legitimate questions I ask them
ookamiz 01-Aug-19 08:48 PM
Money over costumers! Way to go treating your costumers like this. Gamers life matter!
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 08:49 PM
@seemaq have a pic of the email, which says you can also go to the discord to ask questions https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535134220826443785/606648721374969877/t3q53qrfe.png
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 08:49 PM
@Rhubarbist, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Rhubarbist said: @Frisk Which mean people? The ones who were hurling abuse and racial slurs a moment ago, or the equally mean people who think that's **?
Cybo 01-Aug-19 08:49 PM
Can’t wait for this small minority of the internet to completely change how ooblets performs 🙃 definitely isn’t getting publicity or free advertising from this nope. You probably all think fortnites dead for all I know.
Moogle 01-Aug-19 08:49 PM
don't forget to call your representatives to tell them that Radlad is the best Ooblet
BIGFICK 01-Aug-19 08:49 PM
We should be looking to push the gamers back under their rocks (i.e. 4chan, parts of reddit etc.). They scatter like bugs out in the open, because they know their opinions get SQUASHED like flies. NOBODY DESERVES THE DEVELOPERS' GAME. LET THEM SELL IT HOW THEY PLEASE
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:50 PM
@BIGFICK can u not
Lauren 🍉 01-Aug-19 08:50 PM
What
Pawelori 01-Aug-19 08:50 PM
Just going to drop this here. Food for thought 😛 https://twitter.com/bombsfall/status/1157082819463720960
If ever I'm involved with a game that becomes an Epic store timed exclusive because they gave our tiny studio enough money to make production less stressful and our lives easier not only will I not apologize I will demand our team be praised for making responsible decisions
Likes
257
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Frisk 01-Aug-19 08:51 PM
The people who are stereotyping "Gamers" as "Racist meanies"! That's like calling people in my country "Chinese Bootlickers". @Rhubarbist
ookamiz 01-Aug-19 08:51 PM
R-Truth for 24/7 Epic Champion!
Green 01-Aug-19 08:51 PM
i think we should go back to abolish capitalism, that was a good talk
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 08:52 PM
so where are the mods exactly for this chat since some people are actually being rather rude to others
Moogle 01-Aug-19 08:52 PM
abolish steam
KaySuave 01-Aug-19 08:52 PM
What’s a gamer for you guys? I’d like to know so I can join the bandwagon and hate them too (edited)
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:52 PM
@Paladin Knight you can always @ a mod @Rhubarbist "its okay, they hate gamers ironically" (edited)
Sunslammer 01-Aug-19 08:52 PM
Let make our own pokemon harvest moon
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 08:52 PM
@Frisk You realise everyone here plays games, right? If you don't think you're one of the "racist meanies" then what's the issue?
Cybo 01-Aug-19 08:52 PM
I like the people on here who actually think this chat is being taken seriously
DragonfeverVR 01-Aug-19 08:53 PM
@Moogle why would you abolish a platform that made pc gaming what it is today
Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:53 PM
Let's make our own video game store and outprice Epic for Ooblets. GAMERS RISE UP. /s (edited)
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 08:54 PM
@1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA said: @perplamps so youve probably answered this a bunch already, but ive gotta know; why the dickish post about egs? I couldnt care less about where to buy the games, but that condescending attitude was honestly pretty miserable to read. As much as I want to support this game with my broke ***, I've lost pretty much all enthusiasm towards this project :/
KaySuave 01-Aug-19 08:54 PM
@Raekai they could have used crowdfunding for that. No idea why they didn’t.
🤔 1
Frisk 01-Aug-19 08:54 PM
Because it's inherently a bad thing to stereotype people and openly hate them based on your perceptions of them! I bet that the majority of the people you think are "Racist" or whatever are completely the opposite... @Rhubarbist
👶 1
Moogle 01-Aug-19 08:54 PM
I want the devs to have an exclusivity deal on my PC. Every application will be Ooblets
Prismaswan 01-Aug-19 08:54 PM
@Cybo it's a place for people to yell. I'm just watching the fireworks. 🍿 🍿 🍿
perplamps 01-Aug-19 08:54 PM
@Paladin Knight my dude we've spent HOURS here
Green 01-Aug-19 08:55 PM
put ooblets on the front page of google >:)
sheeep 01-Aug-19 08:55 PM
devs could have just said "we got offered a deal we couldn't refuse." and gotten so much less flack. Blog post was patronizing/condescending and just arrogant all around
40 Cakes 01-Aug-19 08:55 PM
looking forward to torrenting this game, ty for saving me $
pyre 01-Aug-19 08:55 PM
Long time follower / lurker. Was very excited on the game's art style and gameplay. Was really looking forward to it all. But I just learned about this news through another game development news website. Sad there was no official ping or announcement from the devs about this. And very disappointed how this entire announcement is handled / managed.
👶 2
Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:55 PM
@KaySuave That's actually a really good point. I'm surprised they didn't try Kickstarter like a lot of other indie games.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 08:55 PM
if you're curious about the tone of the post, it's in relation to the sort of comments we're getting here from the 4chan/reddit contingent who have brigaded this server all day
Justin Meisse 01-Aug-19 08:55 PM
It's rough being a 2 person team without a pr firm
BIGFICK 01-Aug-19 08:55 PM
It disgusts me how many enablers there are here. The types that sit idly by during a Trump presidency, not doing what they ought to impeach the worm. Gamers deserve NOTHING. And it DISGUSTS me to see all the hate on our wonderful female developers who do so much to encourage girl programmers in this male dominated industry. It's time to ban Gamers for HATE speech, as is already the case in many European countries. Don't just stand by when you see them harassing our developers with entitlement. Fight back. Report them. They. Deserve. Nothing. Hopefully Bernie Sanders will protect our developers more when he introduces hate crime laws. But whatever happens, we must resist.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 08:56 PM
@pyre lots of official announcements
1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA 01-Aug-19 08:56 PM
@1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA said: @perplamps so youve probably answered this a bunch already, but ive gotta know; why the dickish post about egs? I couldnt care less about where to buy the games, but that condescending attitude was honestly pretty miserable to read. As much as I want to support this game with my broke self, I've lost pretty much all enthusiasm towards this project :/ it was totally unecessary, since it's there for everyone to read and not just reddit/4chan folks.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 08:56 PM
@1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA see above
Rhubarbist 01-Aug-19 08:56 PM
@Frisk Who am I stereotyping and hating? People who play games? I play games! "I bet that the majority of the people you think are "Racist" or whatever are completely the opposite..." Ha, not surprised the 'both sides' person thinks the majority of racism isn't real.
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 08:56 PM
@jennegatron did you litterally just respond to that persons concerns with a baby emote bruh...
👶 4
KaySuave 01-Aug-19 08:57 PM
@perplamps how can the tone of the post be from the comments in here if the post was made before. It might be the other way, the post rubbed lot of people the wrong way and the email literally call people to log here to discuss it
mirta000 01-Aug-19 08:57 PM
Was there even a reddit post about it? I don't visit 4chan, but I literally had to link the blog post to r/gaming myself 30 minutes ago.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 08:57 PM
@KaySuave because the same exact backlash hits every game that signs with Epic and someone needed to call out the whiney entitled babies
sheeep 01-Aug-19 08:57 PM
@perplamps I have higher expectations from an official dev for someone trying to sell me a product than reddit/4chan anonymous users. i expect anons to be jerks I don't expect the devs of a game I've been somewhat interested in to belittle me because I don't agree with their choice 100%
Frisk 01-Aug-19 08:58 PM
@perplamps I read the post you guys made... It was super mean to a lot of people for no real reason. You don't deserve to be hurt, and I send you all my love, but please come back to everything you said in a few days and think it over. ❤ Also, @Rhubarbist , I live in Nepal, I see racism every singe day! I'm not trying to argue, I just think people should see everyone inherently as a good person, because I think everyone tries to do the right thing. Much love though. ❤
perplamps 01-Aug-19 08:58 PM
and honestly if you're in here for hours upon hours railing against a game you're not gonna buy, you maybe just maybe might be the target of the post
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 08:58 PM
Hey, folks. The devs have already spent their entire day here answering the same questions over and over again. If you have a question, it's most likely already been answered. Please read the back chat to see before pinging the devs or the moderators.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 08:58 PM
ironic insults are still insults
pyre 01-Aug-19 08:59 PM
@perplamps sorry but i don't follow the website blog (seems like the announcement blog was 31 Jul 2019). i do follow the discord news announcements since i am more active in other discord servers. and sorry if didn't get the email either.
47Ways 01-Aug-19 08:59 PM
Untitled Goose Game didn't act like this and so didn't have even 1/10th of the backlash though.
Moogle 01-Aug-19 08:59 PM
the news was almost as disappointing as the time they told me Santa wasn't real
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 08:59 PM
@perplamps can you tell people with legitimate concerns to stop saying they are babies it's making the caht even more toxic than it needs be
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 08:59 PM
You can put "from: perplamps#0001 " into the top right search bar for easier searching xD
1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA 01-Aug-19 08:59 PM
@perplamps yea but youve gotta realize, you arent just talking directly to the 4chan/redditors. That's a post to EVERYONE who is/was interested in the project. I get the pre-frustration, but like, c'mon man. Killed my enthusiasm for the game to see the blog being so condescending to all your fans.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 08:59 PM
the frothing anger over literally, a free game launcher you don't like, is proof that the tone matched the target of that tone, and that target is not the audience of Ooblets who is honestly above that stuff
Raekai 01-Aug-19 08:59 PM
@perplamps This might be better for an email, but did you guys consider Kickstarter? If so, why did you choose to go with Epic instead of crowdfunding. Legitimately curious. I figure the stability with Epic is better, but I didn't think about crowdfunding as an option until @KaySuave mentioned it.
DragonfeverVR 01-Aug-19 09:00 PM
this guy @BIGFICK calls people out for being enablers when most of the people in this chat are here cause they aren't just gonna sit idly by while a game they were looking forward to uses steams advertising then moves exclusively to another store
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:00 PM
wait is perlamps a dev? that response just now is absolutely laughable
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:00 PM
@1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA no my dude, it wasn't condescending to the fans, it was condescending to you. if you find yourself identifying with the butt of a joke, you might just be the butt of the joke
❤ 6
Kumi 01-Aug-19 09:00 PM
@DragonfeverVR It's bait
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:01 PM
@Raekai honestly the biggest reason we didn't do a kickstarter is we didn't want to deal with entitled baby gamers holding even more power over us
❤ 2
claiming we owed them stuff
seemaq 01-Aug-19 09:01 PM
I want emotes again pls
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 09:01 PM
@perplamps didin't you say this on the reddit though... i'm getting really different takes from what you said here and there https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535134220826443785/606646750408605696/1564679625288.png
KaySuave 01-Aug-19 09:01 PM
@perplamps I don’t care about epic, I still don’t like that you went exclusive. I understand why you took the deal, it’s probably a good one. But then I read the post and it was so bad I had to say something. Of course I was gonna buy the game, i probably still will, it was top on steam wish list and there’s a reason I’ve been subscribed to the mailing list for almost 2 years. I just think you’re lumping every people who didn’t like the exclusivity deal in the same group and making fun of them in a blog post.
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:01 PM
I'm only here because I want to feel condescended and I didn't get that from the original post
😂 2
thekey149 01-Aug-19 09:01 PM
Same @Moogle
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:02 PM
no, I think that matches what I'm saying now. if folks are going nuclear about the free game launcher, being dismissive seems appropriate
steve 01-Aug-19 09:02 PM
@perplamps you need to stop assuming everyone with EGS concerns is “not a fan”. I already have an Ooblets T-shirt in my closet I’d gladly send you a photo of if you would like proof. I am beyond disappointed that you would pull the rug out from under supporters and then take a stance of accusing them of being malicious. (edited)
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:02 PM
yeah some people did a great job of proving the points they were so angry about right (edited)
sa 01-Aug-19 09:03 PM
I don't think it's fair to call everyone who doesn't want to use epic a whiny baby
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:03 PM
@perplamps most people are going nuclear not because of the launcher, but because you came off as belittling absolutely anyone that even remotely disagreed with you
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:03 PM
@steve I'm just not sure how it was having the rug pulled out
ElektrikOnion 01-Aug-19 09:03 PM
Lmao I love the baby reaction emotes tho ngl
1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA 01-Aug-19 09:03 PM
@perplamps you're totally missing the point here. I'd stated I don't care about the whole epic games thing, but having such an unpleasant read talking down to your fans is such a turnoff. I get why you'd be dismissive over dissent, but please man, this attitude against potential fans is just upsetting
mirta000 01-Aug-19 09:03 PM
Honestly, if you are upset by the blog post, you are only going to get more upset posting here, as the dev is unlikely to respond nicely to you.
BIGFICK 01-Aug-19 09:03 PM
@1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA Just. Stop. Posting. You are entitled to nothing. Just go.
Frisk 01-Aug-19 09:03 PM
I'm not mad at EGS, even though I like, refuse to use it, that's fine if you guys wanna do whatever. It's just that you think that people who don't wanna use EGS are not real fans. I like the game a whole whole ton and I don't want you to change it... I just wish you guys would be more mature about it!!!
☝ 1
thekey149 01-Aug-19 09:04 PM
Woah, @EmiliusTheAwesome I did not expect to see you here.
Prismaswan 01-Aug-19 09:04 PM
@mirta000 I know, it's fun 🍿
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:04 PM
oh hey, hows it going?
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:04 PM
real fans care only about Radlad
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:04 PM
we're totally okay with folks not wanting to use EGS and not buy the game or wait to buy it on a different platform! that's always been the case.
1000 1
Kumi 01-Aug-19 09:04 PM
shrumboshades
Bree 01-Aug-19 09:04 PM
It's a cute game about collecting critters and dancing and having fun, I would have expected a kinder more empathetic response from the fans. I can only hope the angry rude people weren't buying the game anyway, and the good folks stick around, and continue to make Ooblets a nice community of people who mutually appreciate artists and indie devs.
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 09:04 PM
Folks... you have to understand that coming into this server locked and loaded, ready for a fight, isn't going to get you welcomed with open arms and nice cup of tea. If you come in here with the intention of harassing, insulting, or berating the devs, expect them (and others) to push back.
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LSWraith 01-Aug-19 09:04 PM
I gotta say, I'm disappointed with the attitudes and responses of quite a few people here. I guess I should have expected this, but I was hoping that there's be a bit more civility once the muckstirrers left. Seems that I was proven very wrong, when supporters of the game seem hellbent on insulting those with legit grievances.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:04 PM
it's coming at developers harassing them that has been the norm for every other studio that's signed with epic and was always going to happen to us that I'm calling out
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:05 PM
its honestly scary to me how a game about making friends and being comfy can breed such unempathetic people and im not talking about the "gamers"
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:05 PM
Pinned a message.
Astorica 01-Aug-19 09:05 PM
Perp, I get that you've been here a long time reading messages, and are frustrated, it's probably been a long day. But most people here are not just being "whiny babies" or "entitled baby gamers" and seeing you call people upset about this situation that is really disheartening I bought pins for Ooblets at PAX, I've been on the newsletter for years, I still want to buy the game, just not on EGS. But seeing how you're treating people here, I don't know if I want to anymore
plantmoon 01-Aug-19 09:05 PM
regarding the tone of original post i didnt really see it as condescending? it felt lighthearted and in the tone of all the other blog posts ive read, after all as previous messages said its a lighthearted game about collecting critters
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:05 PM
Pinned a message.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 09:05 PM
@sheeep, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@sheeep said: @perplamps you're still playing the EGS victim card when most people are ** at the tone of the blog post. you acted like even if someone disagreed with the choice a little they weren't allowed to be mad or they're babies
Frisk 01-Aug-19 09:05 PM
Mmm... I dunno when it's gonna come to Steam, though!!!
skuffalo 1
BIGFICK 01-Aug-19 09:06 PM
@perplamps You're doing an EXCELLENT job. Do not let the haters get you down. This will all blow over, and the gamers that were never going to buy you game anyway, will return to their mom's basements.
Kumi 01-Aug-19 09:06 PM
It was just bantz guys
thekey149 01-Aug-19 09:06 PM
Do we know how long the exclusivity window is? And if not, can we know? o:
Green 01-Aug-19 09:06 PM
honestly people have valid concerns which is ok (im waiting for steam release) BUT honestly? devs gotta pay rent too. capitalism sucks but ay id prefer my devs being financially stable and making the game without extra anxiety
1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA 01-Aug-19 09:06 PM
Well, sorry to folks like Rebecca and all the other devs who worked hard on this project. It does seem like a legitimately great game. Sucks all it takes is one PR person's bad attitude to ruin public perception of said game.. also calling someone out on being rude =/= being entitled @BIGFICK lol wymm
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:07 PM
the tone may be fine to people who kept tabs on the other blog posts, but when its such big news that is going to reach a LOT of people, maybe tone down the supposed lightheartedness because no one outside of this community read it as anything but rude and condescending
damphy 01-Aug-19 09:07 PM
@thekey149 Exclusivity is based on milestones after the game comes out, so there isn't a set timeline, sorry!
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:07 PM
what I've seen in the chat IS harassment of the developers, so you must have just not been looking very hard
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Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:07 PM
I have a legitimate concern I don't feel heard on. I'm seriously concerned about Electron. Seriously why have I got to download like 7 gigabytes of node.js packages Ive only got 8 gigs of ram here it's ridiculous
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:07 PM
did my post seriously get removed for saying " m a d" mods what the heck
z-tatiana 01-Aug-19 09:07 PM
I literally couldn’t have cared less where the game would be sold. But this whole situation has just turned me off from the game in general.
Prismaswan 01-Aug-19 09:08 PM
@damphy aww that's disappointing. Is there anything we can do?
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 09:08 PM
"harassment" is not raising legit grievances, and if it is, you may as well just start the bans now.
thekey149 01-Aug-19 09:08 PM
Thats fine! Any information is good o7 @damphy
inkvirus 01-Aug-19 09:08 PM
all i wanna know is if they're gonna work with epic games is there a chance of getting multiplayer 👀
Green 01-Aug-19 09:08 PM
whats electron i thought that was the stuff in atoms @Moogle
Raekai 01-Aug-19 09:09 PM
@perplamps That's fair if that's how you feel. Though, I don't imagine going through Kickstarter would roused this kind of... entitled baby gamer-ism as you might put it.
BIGFICK 01-Aug-19 09:09 PM
Ban all the "Gamers". Honestly. Problem solved. They can whine and cry about it on 4chan/reddit, but they know they are powerless. Those sad saps will soon get the message.
arc 01-Aug-19 09:09 PM
electron is a framework that allows you to create 'native' applications with web technologies
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:09 PM
they're gonna add a battle royale mode obviously
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:09 PM
plenty of people have voiced their concerns without harassing the devs but I'm sad to say plenty of people have also voiced their concerns while very blatantly harassing the devs so please don't pretend everyone has been civil when they haven't
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 09:09 PM
Electron is essentially a Chrome tab you can use to run Node.js programs in like a window. Discord uses it.
damphy 01-Aug-19 09:09 PM
@Prismaswan You can hope that it goes really well on the Epic store, or you can get it for Xbox!
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:09 PM
@Raekai i also don't think kickstarter would have led to a condensending blog post that insulted anyone that didn't agree with them
1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA 01-Aug-19 09:09 PM
@perplamps this is the last I'll say here, but hopefully once things have calmed down a smidge and you have time to reflect, you'll see how rude you are to everyone who cares about your project. Peace out brother ✌
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:10 PM
Electron
seemaq 01-Aug-19 09:10 PM
This reminds me of the mushroom level in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:10 PM
same to you @1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA
trashtabby 01-Aug-19 09:10 PM
not to speak for the devs, but planning a Kickstarter does take a lot of work, and may not have raised nearly as much money as the funding that they got from Epic
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 09:10 PM
@Melted, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Melted said: **** i feel sorry for you guys
Prismaswan 01-Aug-19 09:11 PM
@damphy Thanks, here's hoping that the idiom "any press is good press" rings true and we hit those milestones!
arc 01-Aug-19 09:11 PM
are there banned words here? or am i rate limited
Kumi 01-Aug-19 09:11 PM
Both
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:12 PM
devs just need to apologize for the blog posts tone and give a decent response. isntead perlamps playing full victim (not gonna deny there's been harrassment but it's the minority to legit criticism) and losing everyone's sympathy
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 09:12 PM
Two minute slowmode
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:12 PM
This is supposed to be a family friendly server
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 09:12 PM
Doesn't seem that way.
KaySuave 01-Aug-19 09:12 PM
@sheeep they won’t. They still think they did the right thing
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 09:12 PM
The devs don't "need" to do anything.
jennegatron 01-Aug-19 09:12 PM
Why would they apologize for something funny that they're not sorry for?
BIGFICK 01-Aug-19 09:13 PM
@sheeep Entitled Gamer Detected. Want to cry about that? How about you stop HARASSING the game developers?
pyre 01-Aug-19 09:13 PM
am just very disappointed with how everything is being handled. i personally don't care about EGS. but i do care about games that i feel can make a difference, and about indie devs. sad i had to get the info from another news site. especially when i had this discord server high up on my discord list so that I don't miss news updates or pings. and now seeing all this implosion going on. will prob move it to the muted server folder after this.
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 09:13 PM
define funny when they made most of the internet angry @jennegatron
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:13 PM
I think the devs should apologise for my behaviour
arc 01-Aug-19 09:13 PM
okay. well i just joined to say i support y'all and i hope the drama goes away quickly :)
Green 01-Aug-19 09:13 PM
i think the devs should apologise for the tron remake
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 09:13 PM
@sheeep "We will never apologize for inconveniencing our potential customers. They're not our real fans, they're just poopoo dumdum gamers for having an opinion about Epic in the first place." I'm paraphrasing from what's been said so far.
Kumi 01-Aug-19 09:13 PM
Hey, the devs aren't like Phil Fish. Their responses have been fine.
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:14 PM
something tells me if the devs did apologise they would never even get an apology from all the people who have been harassing them all day
Cybo 01-Aug-19 09:14 PM
I can’t wait for Toby fox to inevitably do epic exclusivity and frisk to lose her mind
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:14 PM
the thing about all of this is, they're going to get more support because of all this. a LOT of people are ticked off at them and honestly rightfully so with their attitude and are going to not buy and leave patreon, but now theyre more known and are going to get just as many, if not more, eyes on the game and people white knighting for them i'd say the devs were clever about this, but i dont think they thought that far ahead and just did it for the money and stability (which is still to many people, wholly understandable)
jennegatron 01-Aug-19 09:14 PM
Phil Fish rules
1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA 01-Aug-19 09:14 PM
I hope the game is great! Sucks I won't refuse a jerk of a dev, and that there's people actively defending the toxic replies, but 🤷‍♀️
seemaq 01-Aug-19 09:15 PM
I respect their decision to not apologize, didn't expect that tbh
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:15 PM
they also totally made the announcement on the 1st to avoid people leaving patreon for the month
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perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:15 PM
@sheeep that's the dumbest thing I can imagine anyone saying
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Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:15 PM
I think the devs should apologise for sans undertale
☝ 1
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 09:15 PM
@perplamps it's whats all over the internet take a look
z-tatiana 01-Aug-19 09:16 PM
Epic probably won’t like the way all of this is being handled, a lot of negativity both ways 😕
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:16 PM
in the context of us getting a lot of money from Epic, why would we want to scam people out of some patreon money
Kumi 01-Aug-19 09:16 PM
@sheeep All their posts are on the first. And you can ask @perplamps for a refund if you want.
ambientocclusion 01-Aug-19 09:16 PM
Phil Fish is great
jarannimo 01-Aug-19 09:16 PM
i honestly think more people would be upset about a kickstarter in the longterm because when people invest their money into it, they would have higher expectations for a timely release and reward-shipping. there's way more pressure for perpetual backer-only updates....dealing with epic is probably easier and likely yields more funding with less non-development work.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:16 PM
i think the posted-on-the-first-to-scam-patrons angle underlines how absolutely imbecilic the people coming at us are
this 2
Melted 01-Aug-19 09:16 PM
🍿
Green 01-Aug-19 09:17 PM
I think the devs should apologise for the Wall Street Crash (1929)
1-Up Chef RIP ETIKA 01-Aug-19 09:17 PM
@perplamps dumbest thing I've seen said all day is a dev speaking down to anyone who reads their devblog, not just those who are salty about egs
👶 2
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:17 PM
i gotta wonder if anyone is archiving the stuff they're saying at this point. theres a lot of bile in there towards angry fans
BIGFICK 01-Aug-19 09:17 PM
And why shouldn't the devs take patreon money? Seriously, that's the BIGGEST protest you can do against Capitalism. You are literally sticking it to the system. BRILLIANT! Bernie Sanders would love this.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 09:17 PM
I think the devs should apologise for @nega doink clearly trying to spell the n-word
Raekai 01-Aug-19 09:17 PM
@jarannimo That's a fair perspective too. Of course, no one says anyone has to do a Kickstarter, but, wow, they definitely don't garner the kind of outrage that this announcement has. Well, unless something goes wrong, so...
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:17 PM
angry people, brigading from 4chan and the anti-epic subreddit
arc 01-Aug-19 09:17 PM
not everyone's opinions are valid and worthy of actual dialogue. that's why situations like this happen
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 09:17 PM
@Pixel Hat but why are you attacking people who don't agree with you buy using dog whistles like "white knight"?
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:17 PM
@perplamps can't even make a joke without dev calling me an imbecile. wow
Justin Meisse 01-Aug-19 09:17 PM
Tough year for gamers sin Paychonauts 2 and Outer Worlds are on the UE4 engine
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 09:17 PM
@perplamps Sorry for the ping, I'm sure you're sick of them by now. Do you have a second for a quick PM? It's not to yell at you, I promise.
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 09:18 PM
just do what cube world did: sell an alpha and then never update it and then post random updates about how development is progressing once every year or two i really should go play cube world again some time soon
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:18 PM
feel free to DM
@Kozmosbound or anyone, I'll try to respond
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:18 PM
huh I've just realised I'm purple, have I actually thrown money at ooblets already? man I'm even cooler than I thoguht I was
Kumi 01-Aug-19 09:18 PM
@sheeep When he made jokes everyone got butthurt and called him insensitive
z-tatiana 01-Aug-19 09:18 PM
It doesn’t matter if they delete the server there are screenshots everywhere already
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 09:19 PM
yep
nonosie 01-Aug-19 09:19 PM
“not everyone's opinions are valid and worthy of actual dialogue.”
Astorica 01-Aug-19 09:19 PM
I don't understand, why are most of the messages with legitimate concerns being ignored and you guys only respond to the toxic ones? 😟 Except for nega doink spelling out racial slurs, I guess
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:19 PM
@Astorica really trying to respond to all the legit concerns
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:19 PM
@Astorica cuz this way he gets to play victim
lionclop 01-Aug-19 09:19 PM
Came here to see how kind/welcoming community could change after the Epic exclusivity. Knowing how terrible publishing/funding deals could be, something that "regular" gamers dont know, really makes me happy for somebody who just got funds for something as normal as exclusivity on a platform. Really happy for you, keep going, keep your business up and running.
❤ 1
Cybo 01-Aug-19 09:19 PM
Because it’s the same recycled dialogue for the 500th time probably
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:20 PM
@sheeep if you don't have anything productive to say, please don't bother
thanks @lionclop !
Sunslammer 01-Aug-19 09:20 PM
When are you releasing on steam?
BIGFICK 01-Aug-19 09:20 PM
@nonosie Nice alt-right dogwhistle. Luckily I've spent decades studying your side's strategies and tactics. It. Will. Not. Work. Here. Not all opinions are WORTH discussing at all. Now stop being so entitled and LEAVE
Kumi 01-Aug-19 09:20 PM
Pin all the serious answers and call it a day
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:20 PM
@Nagnu isnt that just the term for people who go rushing in to defend without knowing full context? its inevitably going to happen as it always does with things, but i dont think ill of them or people defending currently, just the people who feel the need to be rude and namecall, which unfortunately seems to include the devs
thekey149 01-Aug-19 09:21 PM
@Sunslammer Someone asked this earlier: Its not time based, but how well they sell based.
arc 01-Aug-19 09:21 PM
lol. no it won't. in like 2 weeks no one who is upset will even remember this, and the good community that already existed will remain. the dev will be almost completely unaffected
💯 4
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:21 PM
^
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 09:21 PM
@Pixel Hat so why are you making assumptions and using a pejorative when you're trying to take the high ground against a dev you claim is using insulting words?
lionclop 01-Aug-19 09:21 PM
@perplamps Your project is great by any means, does not matter where it comes out. Hope to meet your team at cons.
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:22 PM
epic got exclusivity to my driveway and now I can't leave my house, what do I do
😂 1
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:22 PM
once the 4chan threads die down, most of the anger will dissipate
jarannimo 01-Aug-19 09:22 PM
@Raekai yep, the epic store is a hot button issue for sure! but i think the stress is more...short term than a kickstarter's would be, if that makes sense? all the angry people are going to boycott regardless and probably (hopefully) stop yelling at some point. can't really change the contract now. the people who were going to get the game anyway will stick around.
Lumi 01-Aug-19 09:22 PM
Hey I just want to say I'm disappointed that the game is exclusive to a store but I'm glad that the money Epic gave to the dev will help them out and make the game better in the future. But still I hope one day we can get a release on others stores like GOG or Steam as well at some point as I don't really agree on how the EGS operate Anyway sorry
chralmus 01-Aug-19 09:22 PM
Hello I'd like to know how long is the exclusivity will last? Is it like less than a year? :o and will there be a FAQ sometime later
BIGFICK 01-Aug-19 09:22 PM
Honestly, how is a site like 4chan still up even? It should be banned and deleted from the internet.
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:23 PM
Honestly, how is a site like 4chan still up even? It should be banned and deleted from the internet.
Cybo 01-Aug-19 09:23 PM
The games actually probably gonna get more sales with exclusivity. I literally have so many cool indie games I wanna buy that I would’ve never knew about without them being on epic.
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 09:23 PM
I wouldn't necessarily say "good", judging from some of the people's responses on here to grievances. such as calling people "babies" or entitled. I for one, would rather not have a program with a known track record for privacy breaches on my computer, and I'd rather not be insulted for that.
👶 1
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:23 PM
exclusivity length is going to vary as it's milestone-based (like when we launch EA, 1.0)
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 09:23 PM
My only real question about games ever are "DRM? Yes/no?" because I have so many old games that are now dead due to DRM that doesn't authenticate anymore (I mostly just assume everything not on GoG has some form of DRM, unfortunately)
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:23 PM
Pinned a message.
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 09:24 PM
You'd think that at some point Epic would stop their negative PR train, but here we are again.
Kumi 01-Aug-19 09:24 PM
@LSWraith Capital One just leaked 100 million social security numbers but people are still using it. 😩
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:24 PM
you know for all the people who have joined the server today just to shout at some people I have also seen loads of people join the server to show their support and that's really great
👍 1
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:24 PM
@LSWraith you're describing every software and service in existence
including EGS's competitors
thekey149 01-Aug-19 09:25 PM
Do we know about other platforms (Switch) and if GoG is on the roadmap after ESG milestones?
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:25 PM
@perplamps if you're ok with people not buying/waiting on another platform why would you go an belittle them in the blog post
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:25 PM
mostly because theres no alternatives and its barely publicized these days still, if people dont want to use it, no reason to be rude to them for saying anything about it
seemaq 01-Aug-19 09:25 PM
n64 or bust @Moogle yes (edited)
Raekai 01-Aug-19 09:25 PM
@jarannimo At least with a Kickstarter, I would be able to get this game on Steam at launch. 😉
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 09:25 PM
not necessarily
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:25 PM
@sheeep it's not them that's the issue, it's the folks who come at all the studios who sign with epic, as evidenced in this discord all day
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:26 PM
important question: has somebody alraady done the Ooblets Battle Royale joke cause I'd like to try and reserve it for later
😂 2
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 09:26 PM
We had a ton of 4chan/reddit people earlier all called "I Came" spamming and going in voice with loud, obnoxious music etc xD
47Ways 01-Aug-19 09:26 PM
@perplamps what does that mean, exactly? Is EA EGS exclusive but 1.0 will come elsewhere at launch?
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:27 PM
@perplamps the blog seems to pretty blatantly address anyone against EGS. I would have been fine with the exclusivity(happy for the dev paycheck, not for me personally) , but the post came out and basically told me I was an imbecile for thinking that.
jarannimo 01-Aug-19 09:27 PM
@Raekai haha true! i'm too much of an old person to care about these game libraries tbh (they all look the same to me) but i get the disappointment!
Lumi 01-Aug-19 09:28 PM
@sheeep They knew that people would be mad about that Nobody like exclusivity on PC
Abiscuits 01-Aug-19 09:28 PM
Have you guys done your complemntary Mandarin language lessons yet?
AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 09:29 PM
还没
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 09:29 PM
As a dev, I totally understand the need for stability and money. I get that, and Epic offers that, as well as store visibility in a exceptionally competitive PC marketspace. While I don't currently use it, mostly out of not having anything interesting I'd like on it... I found the "always a bigger fish" level of condescension pretty lame, and I think honestly the biggest people most people have. I've followed this game for quite a while and I'm still excited for it. However I would like to donate the cost of this game to a charity that could help those causes, because, while I'm a gamer, and a dev, I do care deeply about activism and progressive policies and advocating for human rights around the world. I'll probably still buy this game, but maybe I'll just get it on Xbox or wait for a DRM free/Steam release if the move to Epic means belittling some of your fans and followers. I wanted to word this in a way that I do still support the development of the game and that Epic is absolutely a great option for smaller devs... I just wanted to voice my concern towards the hostility and tone of the announcement.
chralmus 01-Aug-19 09:29 PM
I kinda felt that way about the blog post :c I like steam and if it not out for a while then I lose interest. So hopefully it's not too long of a wait. It would be nice to know what's the milestone to come out on steam. ^~^
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:30 PM
@sheeep this was where i got the news from and this subreddit is usually really level-headed https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/ckov3e/ooblets_will_be_releasing_exclusively_on_epic/ no one likes the tone
419 votes and 1,358 comments so far on Reddit
z-tatiana 01-Aug-19 09:30 PM
@OrangeNova perfectly said and couldn’t agree more
Cbajd5 01-Aug-19 09:30 PM
@Ken Kun no, just egs and xbox at this point
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:31 PM
level-headed discussion on reddit has to be the best oxymoron this week, thanks for that, gonna be using thst later to impress all my friends
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AhadielGames 01-Aug-19 09:31 PM
@OrangeNova Nice way of stating your case 😃 Nice change of pace 😛
dengus 01-Aug-19 09:32 PM
I’m getting a strong “not all gamers” vibe from many of the responses. If the post doesn’t describe you, you shouldn’t feel implicated by it.
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Braelara 01-Aug-19 09:32 PM
Yeah I missed the news it was coming to Xbox so I was so happy to read the story...then I read it and went "oh...is that really what you guys think of me? Okay I guess I can buy something else then. Saves me money, apparently i'm just too dumb to play it anyway"
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:32 PM
"go fix climate change". I have yearly petitioned my provincial and federal governments to invest in greener energy and to look further into nuclear. but guess I'm not allowed to be mad about anything else because climate change isn't fixed yet
jennegatron 01-Aug-19 09:32 PM
@dengus they love to tell on themselves.
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:33 PM
@Moogle ah yes. because all of a huge site is exactly the same. thank you, wise internet sage
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 09:33 PM
I think Beowulf sucks, and I am glad we have somewhere to discuss epics now
😂 5
tengblad 01-Aug-19 09:33 PM
Having been here in this channel for a while now, and reading (and posting) concerns from both players and developers. And it seems like the devs wanted to specifically target the folks who hate EGS simply because it is not steam, but the way the post is written it reads as ALSO making fun of everyone who has any concern at all about Epic, conflating them all together as "gamer babies".
👶 1
NegaBoomer 01-Aug-19 09:34 PM
Hello I am iranian my wifes son was expecting to play this but won't now because we're banned from epic for saying the N-word will there be a release off epic
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:34 PM
you are most welcome. I have really good opinions on a lot of things, if you have time
👍 1
Lumi 01-Aug-19 09:34 PM
@Moogle Save that for Twitter
47Ways 01-Aug-19 09:34 PM
@dengus the post goes way out of its way to be condescending to anyone with legitimate issues about EGS, so not really
perplamps 01-Aug-19 09:34 PM
leaving the 4chan stuff in so people can stop claiming they're not brigading
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:35 PM
@tengblad you're absolutely right they're cherry picking so much
seemaq 01-Aug-19 09:35 PM
@NegaBoomer bro, you're not even trying
tengblad 01-Aug-19 09:36 PM
I mean, it seems to be a difference in what the post was meant to convey, and how people are reading it
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:36 PM
I read the post standing on my head and I got nothing from it
jarannimo 01-Aug-19 09:37 PM
i really think perlamps was trying to make a funny post in attempt to diffuse the incoming volatile conversations....the mistake really is telling people that they should care less about something because that never works. that just tends to make them angrier.
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:37 PM
@tengblad not really the post is pretty blatant that anyone who has a problem with epic is a dumbdumb
TheLexikitty 01-Aug-19 09:37 PM
Joined the Patreon just now because I'm quite sure the devs have taken enough heat today and wanted to show my support for the game even if it comes out as an exclusive for toaster ovens. Go forth, Ooblets, and godspeed. 💞
Malbio 01-Aug-19 09:37 PM
yikes
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 09:37 PM
Y I K E S
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:37 PM
JINKIES
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 09:37 PM
@dengus @jennegatron Absolutely, I did notice that in the post that I made, however some people do have legitimate concerns about Epic. I think for the industry it needs it's time to grow, and paying for exclusives is a great way for market penetration against something as monolithic as steam. The features leave a bit to be desired and they haven't stuck to their road map, but again, it's tough especially when you're under as big of a microscope as EGS is currently with how negative their press is. I'm not a fan of them for their policies in development surrounding Fortnite and their pretty brutal crunch mentality to constantly put out content, and the impact on the industry that it's had. (See Respawn and how they took a big hit when they said they couldn't match fortnite without sacrificing their work life balance at their company).
ElektrikOnion 01-Aug-19 09:38 PM
This has really just boiled down to a “you cant make everyone happy” situation. Some people aren’t happy with the tone or egs or whatever and that’s fine, but demanding the devs apologize when they aren’t sorry and have no need to really be sorry isn’t going to get anyone anywhere.
Frisk 01-Aug-19 09:38 PM
If people don't buy the game, Epic still pays Ben and Rebecca. Literally nobody could buy it and they would still get money. Which is cool I guess, that makes everyone happy, and that's a good thing.
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:38 PM
given the fact we are in this channel it's pretty clear we are all miserable and nothing will ever make us happy
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 09:39 PM
You know who you all are really making sad, gloopylonglegs. He was looking forward to you all hanging, and now he's more like gloomylonglegs
dengus 01-Aug-19 09:39 PM
@47Ways not going out of its way – the post was preempting the old stale arguments about egs. If you’re angrier about that than the fact that they got funding to make a no-compromises version of their game, then that’s too bad.
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 09:39 PM
Crunch is an industry wide problem, not just an Epic problem (e.g., people seem to have no problem with Rock Star games and they have horrible crunch)
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:39 PM
devs should be sorry though. acting all high and mighty "you're an entitled whiner if you have any shred of criticism" is just pathetic.
deedles 01-Aug-19 09:39 PM
The “tone” most people are put off by is just the signature humor that the oobs team practices in all of their devlogs. If some took the “gamer” jokes personally, then that’s on them. It’s fine to be put out by the news, but I think people are using the “tone” of the post as an outlet to express their anger, when in reality it wasn’t meant to belittle those who have actual issues with EGS. There is valid criticism about EGS for sure, but this update, to me, is all about the oob team doing all they can to make ooblets the very best it can be, and they hoped we’d support them and their decision, not necessarily support epic.
Malbio 01-Aug-19 09:39 PM
yeah idk why anyone's still arguing after the devs have pretty clearly shown how tone deaf they are lmfao
seemaq 01-Aug-19 09:39 PM
why are we still here
ElektrikOnion 01-Aug-19 09:40 PM
What’s said was said and what’s done is done, at the end of the day, telling them they “should be sorry” isn’t going to make them sorry, so whats the point? Just let it go at this point and let the chat die
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:40 PM
i dunno. not wanting to make amends with people who supported you in various ways seems rude. they're certainly not obligated to, but they shouldnt act so surprised when people call them out on it and seriously. if its a serious post that a LOT of people are going to see, maybe using the "quirky" humor wasnt the best idea
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 09:40 PM
@Nagnu Absolutely, Rockstar is abhorrent for it's crunch culture, but we are talking about EGS here, moving the goal posts or "Yes but this company is worse" doesn't get anyone anywhere.
arc 01-Aug-19 09:40 PM
people don't want an apology. they want to get everything their way and to be told they're right about everything
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kseixas 01-Aug-19 09:40 PM
i must say i totally understand the devs need for money at this stage, and I get that they have to defend their new colors but the argument "steam was also like this when it came out" is just following the script epic gave them, the features epic is promissing like reviews, achivements, etc are not coming they already delayed them multiple times and what most likely will happen is that a couple months after release this game is gonna get stuck on a 5 minute scroll on epic web page (yes it's a web page not a store) , my point is epic don't care about us consumers nor does it care about the devs sometimes is better to take risks than play it safe but this is just my opinion and i wish this game good luck (edited)
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 09:41 PM
@OrangeNova moving the goal posts? Hardly. You make it like I'm a crunch apologist. Pointing out how people having concerns about EGS cherry picking their complaints is valid.
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 09:41 PM
People want the game on a different launcher, gravytrain why couldn't this be on the bethesda launcher or origin, or blizzard instead
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:41 PM
gives someone chocolate .... punches them in face ...'Hey why are you angry, I just gave you chocolate'
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 09:41 PM
makes post about a divisive, contentious issue that's garnered a lot of controversy and is important for your game's future well cracks knuckles time to flex my twitter comedy skills
z-tatiana 01-Aug-19 09:41 PM
The devs definitely do not owe anyone an apology. Their already signed with Epic so what’s done is done. I just won’t be buying the game and that really doesn’t matter to them. I suggest anyone who doesn’t have interest in purchasing the game either to just stop wasting your time. You can’t get what you want from everyone that’s just how stuff works. But I wouldn’t recommend giving this anymore of your time or attention. There are plenty of games out there for you to enjoy that I’m sure will suite your tastes more! We can’t expect people to change overnight. I don’t care one way or another if we get an “apology”. Let’s just move on to something new and forget about it
seemaq 01-Aug-19 09:42 PM
@EmiliusTheAwesome I don't get it
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:42 PM
same
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:42 PM
a lot of what ive seen are people wanting an apology or their concerns addressed and being ignored in fear of the good ol 4chan boogeyman
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:42 PM
concerns were absolutely not ignored
they were given response after response after response but it was never good enough and it never would have been because some people just want blood
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:43 PM
i wasn't in chat all that long but perlamps was absolutely ignoring legitimate concern and cherry picking any kind of attack. perlamps was acting like a toddler
47Ways 01-Aug-19 09:43 PM
they were absolutely ignored and devs repeatedly said anybody complaining about their tone didnt actually wanted to buy the game. So yes, concerns were ignored
skuffalo 1
Malbio 01-Aug-19 09:43 PM
yeah perp was specifically focusing on people causing problems and saying that it was the majority
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:43 PM
any concerns you saw him ignore I guarantee he has answered 50 million times already
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 09:44 PM
the whole "If you aren't one of the bad gamers, you shouldn't care about being generalized!" thing doesn't work, jsyk, and misrepresenting legit grievances as "man-baby poopydiaper rage" is intellectually dishonest and scummy.
Lumi 01-Aug-19 09:44 PM
Calling people babies is not a good way to treat your fans
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:44 PM
l e g i t i m a t e c o n c e r n
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 09:44 PM
@Nagnu I'm sorry if I came across that way, however there are legitiamate concerns about epic, that handwaving away with "Yeah but this company" isn't helping. @kseixas I disagree, Steam at launch was terrible, ABSOLUTELY terrible I do stand that I understand and even congratulate the devs on getting an Epic deal. For a dev having that kind of stability is fantastic, and the smaller the dev team the less you should be looking at the gift horses mouth. I just didn't like the always a bigger fish tone.
spoingal 01-Aug-19 09:44 PM
re: feedback, ive sent an email and i think thats probably going to convey my feelings better than what i would be able to say here. i totally recommend others with criticism do the same so their thoughts will be seen outside the back-and-forth framing going on in here
sa 01-Aug-19 09:44 PM
Steam at launch was what, 15 years ago tho?
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:45 PM
can i send an email that's not directly to perlamps for my criticism?
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:45 PM
im in the same boat as sheeep and havent been here all day to see them, but those answers should have been pinned honestly. the only things he's pinned is him defending himself and contradicting the tone of his blog post
arc 01-Aug-19 09:45 PM
everyone hated steam so much when it came out lol. how quickly we forget / are born 10 years too late to have known
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 09:45 PM
Standards have changed. Significantly. They shouldn't have launched a store and poached exclusives for a store that doesn't even have a shopping cart. But that's on Epic, not the Oobs team.
kseixas 01-Aug-19 09:45 PM
@OrangeNova answer me one thing if apple launched today a new phone that had black & white screen would you be cool with them saying "Nokia was also like this 15 years ago"?
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:46 PM
yeah I avoided getting steam for so long
47Ways 01-Aug-19 09:46 PM
@EmiliusTheAwesome i've read through their comments here. They didn't.
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:46 PM
the only framing I'm doing is framing this conversation on my wall
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:46 PM
okay
spoingal 01-Aug-19 09:46 PM
emails are great cause u can type a whole big bunch and have it not immediately swallowed by the chat ahaha. idk why you wouldnt send it to perlamps though? theres like two people youd be able to give feedback to, unless im misunderstanding the size of the dev team.
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 09:46 PM
you 👏 would 👏 do 👏 the 👏 same 👏 thing 👏 as 👏 the 👏 ooblets 👏 team (edited)
👏 5
mirta000 01-Aug-19 09:46 PM
TBH, if WoW launched today it wouldn't take off. You need to take into consideration current year and expectations before you make a product.
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 09:47 PM
@OrangeNova who is moving goal posts now? I understand there are legitimate concerns. I was talking about the one that is Epic has crunch. Crunch is an endemic problem to the industry. Calling for boycott of one company while calling for buying the game to support the devs of another smacks of intellectual dishonesty. People need to stick to legit concerns and not just throw spaghetti at the wall.
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:47 PM
@spoingal cuz perlamps ignored my actual questions regarding the tone of the blog post then called me an imbecile when i made a joke
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 09:48 PM
I'm pretty sure no one talked about Rockstar until you did, @Nagnu, unless you mean another game
bilger 01-Aug-19 09:48 PM
I don't see how a comparison with how bad steam was 15 years ago with the problems Epic's launcher has today in 2019 is fair. Technology has come a long way and it's not like a large company would be starting at the same point steam did back then.
47Ways 01-Aug-19 09:48 PM
@wackydeli just about every other EGS exclusive managed to do it without going on a condescending tirade against their customers. It's not a hard thing to do.
Big Norm 01-Aug-19 09:48 PM
Internet discussions are crazy, you can give arguments all you want and the other side will never change their opinions
tengblad 01-Aug-19 09:48 PM
Anyway, my point was only that I think the devs are doing themselves a disservice when they lump everyone who took issue with the tone of the post together as "angry gamer babies" when it seems to stem from miscommunication. I'm totally down with the EGS exclusivity, get that cash. (edited)
☝ 5
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 09:49 PM
steam was 15 years ago, 15 years ago cloud saving was not common neither was native controller support all those thigns now are standard why should we give EGS flack cus steam evolved as technology evolved
Lumi 01-Aug-19 09:49 PM
@47Ways big point almost all of the devs that goes epic exclusive goes mad at gamers for being entitled
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 09:49 PM
I think asking us to address "tone" of our writing is really difficult... Just try to put yourself in that situation. The blog post is what it is, and we didn't think it was particularly offensive, and some people thought it was.. not much more to say about it
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 09:49 PM
@LSWraith if you scroll up you see a mention of Crunch as a reason to not buy from Epic. I brought up Rockstar as an example of another company with crunch but people successfully moralized into buying it will help the devs and boycotting would be pointless. The direct opposite is true when it comes to EGS for some reason
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 09:49 PM
@47Ways so you have personally been involved in all the backlash with all the other games?
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 09:49 PM
@bilger Being 15 years behind in terms of your storefront is fine when you host the biggest game out today, apparently.
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 09:49 PM
@sa Yup, but sometimes there are just growing pains that everything goes through, look at GoG, Discord, Twitch, all of those game stores had similar issues regarding the software side of their launchers... Epic is getting past that by buying exclusives and it's brilliant to do so. @kseixas The Kingrow K1 E Ink phone came out this year, it's black and white. Apple wouldn't because they clearly do not have to. @Nagnu My goalposts are firmly set in that I didn't like the tone of the article, would like to donate to an organization the cost of the game for either environmental or human rights causes, and that I'll probably buy the game, just not on Epic, if that means being condescending to your userbase.
greg 01-Aug-19 09:49 PM
as far as the same concern being pointed out multiple times, i would suggest maybe a new blog post that addresses all the criticisms brought up today? i’m well past the point of expecting any developer here to try and understand why people don’t like epic, but people will keep asking and asking if you make no larger scale response
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:49 PM
a LOT of people thought it was...
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:49 PM
also a LOT of people thought it wasn't
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:50 PM
@EmiliusTheAwesome yeah that's absoltuely the minority
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:50 PM
absolutely huh?
kseixas 01-Aug-19 09:50 PM
@OrangeNova you totally missed the point xD
47Ways 01-Aug-19 09:50 PM
@bilger pretty much. It's like saying a car made by a new company shouldn't have seatbelts or airbags cause they're new at this and takes a while to make good cars. @wackydeli what? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Not, i've not been "involved in all the backlash". I've read through all their announcements. Not a single one even remotely as insulting as this one.
arc 01-Aug-19 09:50 PM
no it's not like that
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 09:50 PM
but also its something that is always going to be impossible to satisfy you on
spoingal 01-Aug-19 09:50 PM
i guess what im thinking, is that if you sent feedback in an email outside of the environment of this chat, it might be more carefully read and received than in here where all the responses are coming in real time and he's having to respond to hwatever he sees in real time. i dont know what kind of joke you made though. was it insensitive, edgy, offensive? unnecessarily hostile? @sheeep
ElektrikOnion 01-Aug-19 09:50 PM
I doubt it is actually like that, unhappy people are often more vocal about the things they are unhappy about, those unaffected aren’t going to go out of their way to say they are unaffected
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 09:50 PM
we're not going to apologise for the content, because we believe in what we said
but i'm personally sad that people were offended
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 09:51 PM
@OrangeNova you seem to have me confused with someone else. I am talking about crunch in game dev, not human rights abuses. I'm not Legion.
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 09:51 PM
but thats about as far as I'd go
Braelara 01-Aug-19 09:51 PM
Hey Dev's, will this be on xbox gamepass? And will it be play anywhere?
trashtabby 01-Aug-19 09:52 PM
i think EGS/Epic deserves a lot of criticism, i generally don't think devs who take Epic's deals do though. and i think it's better to direct criticism of Epic at, well, Epic.
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 09:52 PM
@47Ways did you get the email with the announcement? read on websites the actual announcement? I am not here defending the team for how people perceived that blog post, but I have personally seen the same thing happen for other games on EGS. Rocket League comes to mind and saw a dev in a discord arguing with fans who were mad that they took their precious away.
tengblad 01-Aug-19 09:52 PM
@nonplayercat Do you believe that everyone who has any concern about the Epic store falls into the category of Gamers(TM), no matter what the concerns may be? Because that how the post read to me, and is what I think people take issue with? I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just genuinely curious.
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:52 PM
@nonplayercat you believe that anyone with any sort of EGS criticism is a baby and should go focus on climate change?
👶 1
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 09:52 PM
No, but that's not what we said
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 09:52 PM
LUL
ElektrikOnion 01-Aug-19 09:52 PM
Difficult position: a sect of people feel targeted by a post that didn’t intend to target them, step back from what you feel and recognize they didn’t intend for you to feel targeted or offended by their post
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 09:52 PM
or at least, I don't believe that's a fair interpretation of what we said
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 09:53 PM
@dengus, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@dengus said: I didn’t find the post condescending. Why? What differentiates you and me? I don’t “have grievances” about the Epic Game Store couched in ** fanboy culture.
bilger 01-Aug-19 09:54 PM
If it's on gamepass/steam I'll buy it there but frankly I just don't want to give Epic any of my money
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 09:54 PM
The fact that cat and lamps have even had this conversation with anyone is more than they have to do. They could announce and that be it. No reason for them to sit around and answer, or "cherrypick" as most of you say.
47Ways 01-Aug-19 09:54 PM
@nonplayercat was it not? You guys literally ridicule anyone that has issues with EGS on your blogpost. People have legitimate issues with EGS and you were extreme condescending and shut down discussion of said issues in the worst way. It's very disappointing.
HolyDragSwd 01-Aug-19 09:54 PM
@bilger A mocking tone casts a wide net.
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:54 PM
@Luthyr because they cherry picked 2 criticisms about epic and then brushed everyone off
tengblad 01-Aug-19 09:54 PM
@nonplayercat Okay, yes, obviously, but that is how a lot of people read the post and that is where the issue lies, I think. So obviously something in how the post was written was not clear enough. I think that's the only point some of us are trying to make, that to us the post read in that way.
ElektrikOnion 01-Aug-19 09:54 PM
Tone is difficult to interpret via text, if its something people already feel raw about (epic) it’s easy to misenterprit their normal sense of humor
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 09:55 PM
this slowmode is obnoxious i think its the kind of babytalk humor that just didnt land. seriously should not have used such humor in such a big announcement. i get wanting to make it more lighthearted, but its such a touchy topic that it was incredibly risky
spoingal 01-Aug-19 09:55 PM
the thing is, not everyone Has that context. theyre reading a blog post that is ostensibly directed at the person reading it. not everyone is going to infer whether or not some measure of snark was directed at them if this is an announcement for everyone.
Braelara 01-Aug-19 09:55 PM
Like yeah, what Teng is saying. I get that's not what was intended but still it offended, if you're going to just blow it off then I simply am that much more hurt. I thought with how cute the game was and nice and PG it all seemed that maybe you guys wouldn't be so cold and corporate about all this.
Big Norm 01-Aug-19 09:56 PM
Without slowmode this channel would be filled with people yelling at each other and not actually considering their arguments
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 09:57 PM
Errr, I thought the announcement was the complete opposite of cold and corporate. No where did they talk about pride and accomplishment over surprise rng mechanics. lol
ThatDancingClarinet 01-Aug-19 09:57 PM
Im just here so hi...
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:57 PM
I don't get why people are talking like they announced they were gonna set fire to your homes, its just a different store guys
this 2
z-tatiana 01-Aug-19 09:57 PM
Guys! If you don’t like the way their handling the situation don’t give it anymore attention. Thats the power that consumers have. Your life and mine will be fine without the game. There’s no use in wasting your time and energy, if they don’t want to deal with an apology they don’t have to. That’s their choice. they’ll have to deal with a loss of customer base which they will learn and grow from. Idk if I’m even making any sense here
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 09:57 PM
sure have your concerns but like calm down a bit
arc 01-Aug-19 09:57 PM
that's gamers on the internet
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 09:57 PM
@OrangeNova, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@OrangeNova said: @nonplayercat That's totally fair, writing an article or an apology in regards to the tone is practically impossible with the toxicity surrounding devs signing exclusivity deals with EGS. And separating it out from the people who are thumping the "Epic is the end of PC gaming" from "I have a concern with how this was put" just won't be possible. I appreciate that you are taking the comments about it to heart, and I do hope that future blog posts will be looked at with maybe more consideration. Marketing is hard as ****, It's taken me months to write articles with help from a marketing team, and even then, I feel some of the stuff I conveyed didn't come across the way I wanted. I really wish you both the best of luck with this project.
spoingal 01-Aug-19 09:57 PM
im just explaining why people read the tone a certain way bc i do think ppl are being a little dismissive in here
Moogle 01-Aug-19 09:57 PM
has anyone considered why someone might not be offended and angry at the post. anyone?
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 09:57 PM
I mean, I think you can imagine how it would feel to have hundreds of people attacking you for like 8hrs (edited)
So maybe there was some comments that were a bit snarky
47Ways 01-Aug-19 09:58 PM
@z-tatiana or they can voice their thoughts instead? (respectfully of course)
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 01-Aug-19 09:58 PM
"Hey guys want to play the game but EGS doesn't support your region? WELL TOO BAD." "Oh what's that? You supported the game all this time on Patreon and you can't buy the game? Well not my problem lol" "you're not entitled to our game anymore so go away and cry in the corner"
nanimo(null) 01-Aug-19 09:58 PM
it’s ok because they have like $500,000 now
ElektrikOnion 01-Aug-19 09:58 PM
Yeah this was not cold or comporate, its human and tired. How many studios have gotten nuts pushback for going with epic, it read to me as an attempt to say hey, we know you’re gonna be unhappy about this onw too, so go away
sheeep 01-Aug-19 09:58 PM
@nonplayercat probably how some people felt attacked for having criticism of the EGs
Abiscuits 01-Aug-19 09:58 PM
All you really needed to say is you needed the money
Braelara 01-Aug-19 09:59 PM
Of course they are, they don't want to give an inch to anyone because they're worried it'll be used against them. I get it. It sucks. I'm still hurt by it. Now knowing they don't want to apologize and feel they've done no wrong i'm that much further disenchanted
ThatDancingClarinet 01-Aug-19 09:59 PM
Whats goin on?! (edited)
barret 01-Aug-19 09:59 PM
500,000 isn't actually a lot to run and sustain a company in the long run. it may sound like a lot but it's really not
z-tatiana 01-Aug-19 09:59 PM
@47Ways yes I agree! Everyone should put what they feel out there (respectfully) and leave it at that! That’s all we can do. Don’t waste hours of your time on this. Just don’t give them your business
spoingal 01-Aug-19 09:59 PM
were people aware of this announcement and mounting attacks before the blog post happened? i may be missing context
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 10:00 PM
end of the day, i think just saying to people that tone is hard to convey and the humor didnt land quite as intended would help a lot. not exactly an apology so much as an explanation, but it probably would satisfy the people who are genuinely invested the trolls are just gonna troll regardless of what you do, but the snark certainly doesnt help and is more likely adding fuel to the fire
Big Norm 01-Aug-19 10:00 PM
@z-tatiana Without proper discussion, things can never improve. No matter which side of this you're on, ignoring it is the worst possible option
Moogle 01-Aug-19 10:00 PM
I had an angry comment to the devs ready since day one. I'm doing my part, are you?
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 10:01 PM
you know moogle you really aren't helping
ThatDancingClarinet 01-Aug-19 10:01 PM
Im so confussed
Hotgayboy 01-Aug-19 10:01 PM
I had a sinking suspicion that Ooblets was going to go EGS since their last update was such a long while ago on the steam page, does anyone know how long they were planning this before going public?
z-tatiana 01-Aug-19 10:01 PM
Now I’m going to take my advice and go watch some TV so I can enjoy the rest of my night lol. Everyone is entitled to make their own decisions 💗
seemaq 01-Aug-19 10:01 PM
it may not look like it but I think we made some progress here
☝ 5
spoingal 01-Aug-19 10:01 PM
@seemaq im inclined to agree!
kseixas 01-Aug-19 10:02 PM
@EmiliusTheAwesome i know most people think "It's just installing a new launcher" or " just a different store" but there are a lot of concerns in this case for example my main concern is not being able to play with my dualshock 4 on EGS
Raekai 01-Aug-19 10:02 PM
@seemaq We middle-grounders should start our own club. Lol.
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 10:03 PM
From Futurama epiosde 2x02, "Brannigan, Begin Again". The leader of the Neutral People is asked to comment on the opening of the new DOOP headquarters.
ThatDancingClarinet 01-Aug-19 10:03 PM
what is hippity hippity happening?
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 10:03 PM
We can potentially add Dualshock 4 support to ooblets regardless of EGS...
this 2
spoingal 01-Aug-19 10:03 PM
[gimli voice] i never thought id die fighting side by side with a centrist
❤ 5
hehehe 2
seemaq 01-Aug-19 10:04 PM
true lmao
❤ 2
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 10:04 PM
how about side-by-side with a friend?
❤ 3
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 10:04 PM
I'm not saying yes I'll do that, but if that was a major concern for a lot of people, it's a pretty easy thing to fix
Big Norm 01-Aug-19 10:04 PM
@ThatDancingClarinet Long story short, the devs made a snarky blog post and it came across to some as ignoring major complaints about the Epic Games Store
😬 1
Raekai 01-Aug-19 10:04 PM
@Pixel Hat Haha. It's more like I have medium feelings both ways.
Moogle 01-Aug-19 10:04 PM
I tried to parody being a centrist then I got physically ill. I'm going now, don't be like me, be good to each other or I'll haunt you
sa 01-Aug-19 10:05 PM
I have strong feelings both ways
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 10:05 PM
people having concerns is fine, the constant harassment and insults is not. You are not owed the devs time or attantion and a lot of people would have just noped outta here but they stayed and addressed the concerns and answered the questions and got treated like dirt in return
ThatDancingClarinet 01-Aug-19 10:05 PM
@Big Norm Thanks ( sorry i literally just jined ) (edited)
ElektrikOnion 01-Aug-19 10:05 PM
Even if you don’t, there are plenty of programs that exist to map xbox controls to dualshock controllers
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 10:05 PM
@nonplayercat There's a pretty good Unity tool for large amounts of controller support, If you'd like I could find out what it is for you?
Raekai 01-Aug-19 10:06 PM
For those out of the loop, I said this earlier. "I think it can be summed up as this: (1) Some people don't like EGS, Epic, Tencent, etc. Probably for some good reasons, but I won't get into that. (2) Some people feel like there has been a minor bait and switch because the devs have led them to believe that Ooblets would launch on steam. (3a) Some people felt like the humor in the blog post was in bad taste. (3b) Some people feel like the responses from the devs have had a poor tone. Now, in each of these ideas, there is legitimate concern, surely. The legitimate concern is being drowned out by the trolls, which is unfortunate because the legitimate concern is likely coming from long-time fans who have also supported the game through Patreon and/or buying merchandise (like myself) and feel like they already have money or stake in this. (I get it. I don't support/like/trust Epic, but I do support/like/trust Ooblets. Even then, I don't want to download another launcher—I don't want to use EGS for games when I have Steam like I don't want to use Facebook for communication when I have Gmail.) Ultimately, the devs aren't going to undo this deal with Epic. Why would they? It's great for them! (And that makes me happy.) It's just inconvenient for me and for some others. (And that makes me bummed.) According to the devs, the game will eventually be coming to Steam. The exclusivity ends after an undisclosed milestone. That's it. Are the devs jerks? Is Epic bad? Are gamers bad? How many of these people are trolls? I don't have strong answers for those. Please let me know if I missed anything."
sheeep 01-Aug-19 10:06 PM
From what I saw pwrlamps was not addressing concerns, playing victim and cherry picking arguments. Nonplayercat however is doing a good job at addressing it somewhat
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 10:06 PM
still feel they should have pinned some of the answers. would have saved a lot of trouble and basically what sheep said. perp was being incredibly rude (edited)
seemaq 01-Aug-19 10:07 PM
@Raekai they should pin this
❤ 2
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 10:07 PM
gosh imagine having to put up with people playing victim and cherry picking arguments
Bexe 01-Aug-19 10:07 PM
yeah imagine reality
hmaon 01-Aug-19 10:07 PM
@OrangeNova Sophie's Sinput? https://sophieh.itch.io/sinput
Input wrapper for unity
barret 01-Aug-19 10:08 PM
to the ooblets devs I know your situation isn't the same. but the no man's sky team delt with a lot of toxic comments and criticisms. some valid/valuable and some not. I thought the way Sean handled the toxicity was outstanding. the video could be helpful and applicable. not telling you how to handle things just want to be supportive any way I can if you have a spare 17 minutes it's a great video https://youtu.be/C3GaHQybtoU
GDC
A small and unlikely team was behind one of the most ambitious and anticipated games of 2016. In this 2019 GDC Main Stage session, Hello Games' Sean Murray t...
YuukaFlower 01-Aug-19 10:08 PM
@everyone Tell Tim Sweeney I said thanks for the free game
12Gage541 01-Aug-19 10:08 PM
So, I came here because of the Epic thing, and that's really funny.
Big Norm 01-Aug-19 10:08 PM
Daddy Sweeney, give me the vBucky-wuckys Edit: I really don't know why I posted that (edited)
ThatDancingClarinet 01-Aug-19 10:08 PM
sksksk
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 10:09 PM
Gosh, imagine pretending to answer questions, while also casually dismissing the concerns of a backer whose region isn't supported by the EGS. Imagine feeling entitled to respect after that.
sheeep 01-Aug-19 10:09 PM
^
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 10:09 PM
@hmaon That looks a lot like it, I'm not a programmer though so I can't confirm if this is it though? But one of the programmers I work with raved about this plugin when we were implementing controller support. It even worked with my janky USB to Playstation 1 controller adapter.
ElektrikOnion 01-Aug-19 10:09 PM
Calling out x or y on their behaviour doesn’t reduce toxicity or make literally anyone feel better, we are all people
Bexe 01-Aug-19 10:09 PM
it's easy to collapse all the outrage into a west-centric basement dwelling troll motif
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 10:10 PM
seriously should have been pinned! acting scummy to people who didnt see the answers was just scummy (i apparently like repeating myself) (edited)
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 10:10 PM
west-centric sounds extremely close to weast
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 10:10 PM
@12Gage541, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@12Gage541 said: Cause I never would've known about this game if it wasn't for all of this ****. So thanks Epic, now I know about a cool looking game I've never heard of before.
spoingal 01-Aug-19 10:10 PM
i think discord is just not an adequate avenue for the devs to be able to address legit concerns bc stuff got lost and i can barely keep up myself and im not even being held to any kind of standard
kseixas 01-Aug-19 10:11 PM
@nonplayercat i get the same response a lot from other games on the EGS or even on the xbox game pass when i ask for ds4 support, the answer is the same as yours when i get a answer, the result is eventually get tired of waiting and eventually buy the game on steam where i don't have to worry about that
hmaon 01-Aug-19 10:11 PM
@OrangeNova hm, there are other ones out there, I'm sure. I'd be curious to know the exact one
tengblad 01-Aug-19 10:11 PM
@nonplayercat And you absolutely don't deserve that hate for signing with Epic. I'm glad you did! I've loved the look of Ooblets since day one and I extremely hope that the game does well and becomes successful. It's just that the announcement post didn't land right for a lot of folks, to all appearances because of miscommunication and different interpretations of how it was written. All that being said, thank you for all your hard work on Ooblets and it will continue to be one of my most anticipated games
❤ 6
ThatDancingClarinet 01-Aug-19 10:11 PM
Oof im out peeps have fun with the EGS (edited)
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 10:11 PM
ell they have said repeatedly that you can email them
sheeep 01-Aug-19 10:11 PM
Watched perlamps play pr disaster Sim and killed any interest I had in buying the game
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 10:11 PM
@spoingal it doesn't help that some of the people in here aren't taking the conversation seriously, or are misrepresenting arguments
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 10:12 PM
@hmaon I'll let you know when I find out! I'll ask them tomorrow about it, and I'm sure they'll be happy to spread the word of that plugin haha
👍 1
Mustafa Fasula 01-Aug-19 10:12 PM
The best way to deal with toxicity is by ban them and ignore them
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 10:12 PM
is it possible to give money just to nonplayercat or buy the half of the game she worked on? id be down with that
uwot 2
sheeep 01-Aug-19 10:13 PM
@Mustafa Fasula you want them to ban perlamps?
12Gage541 01-Aug-19 10:14 PM
Oh, no swears on here, got it. Anyway, if it wasn't for all the Epic stuff people are mad about, I never would've known about this game, so thanks guys, now I have another game to look forward to.
Big Norm 01-Aug-19 10:14 PM
I think I'll do what everyone else here will do, which is completely forget about this controversy and then buy the game when it gets 8/10 on most major gaming websites
spoingal 01-Aug-19 10:14 PM
@LSWraith thats exactly my point. i think no matter what sides there are, people are being misrepresented on them. the devs are getting misrepresented, the people with concerns are being misrepresented. there is a mounting tension, people are mad. shrek! fiona! mom! harold! donkey! send an email
ElektrikOnion 01-Aug-19 10:14 PM
Oh my god anyone whos been here the last like 2 hours knows you dont like how perplamps handled things, let it r e s t
Cybo 01-Aug-19 10:14 PM
Omg are you guys seriously still going when do you stop
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 10:14 PM
im probably going to forget about the game again even with this controversy. originally saw it on tumblr but its been years since ive seen it and this was my reintroduction to it. fun.
Mustafa Fasula 01-Aug-19 10:15 PM
No toxic people should be banned
sheeep 01-Aug-19 10:15 PM
@Mustafa Fasula exactly
seemaq 01-Aug-19 10:15 PM
you shoudn't ban people unless they're outright trolling
EmiliusTheAwesome 01-Aug-19 10:16 PM
alright I don't know why I'm still here reading the same comments again and again, I'm gonna go
please try and just not be mean to each other
spoingal 01-Aug-19 10:17 PM
my position is: whatever ur feedback its best sent in email. negative or...positive, tbh, no rules against sending positive feedback or support that i know of! maybe they could use it! im sure anything constructive is appreciated.
Mustafa Fasula 01-Aug-19 10:17 PM
So when is the release date ?
Cybo 01-Aug-19 10:18 PM
Delayed ;(
Big Norm 01-Aug-19 10:18 PM
I'm gonna leave too and go watch netflix. The main takeaway from every internet argument is that you'll never convince the other side, and it's best just to post your opinions then dip out as soon as possible
BigTiddyGothGF 01-Aug-19 10:19 PM
Can i ask what’s happening I haven’t been on in ages and came back to this?
spoingal 01-Aug-19 10:19 PM
aint that the truest lesson of the internet that i will always be learning, my sisyphean task
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 10:19 PM
Delays are never a bad thing for a game. And people should be less upset or worried about delays in releases. Games take time, and are insanely difficult work. As a Senior QA tester, I very much push that everything can always use more time.
seemaq 01-Aug-19 10:19 PM
Ok, Imma head out too, I'm glad I got my opinion changed
Paladin Knight 01-Aug-19 10:19 PM
points at sword and shield
sa 01-Aug-19 10:20 PM
sword and shield blobsweatsbutfast
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 10:21 PM
“A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad.” -Shigeru Miyamoto
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 10:21 PM
exactly (unless it was Duke Nukem Forever)
vampire papi 🌹🦇 01-Aug-19 10:21 PM
So, just a quick question, is it 100% epic exclusive or is it coming to the windows game store along side it? I know it's coming out on Xbox still so. Just a genuine question for thought for my own purchase. Secondly, i'm super disappointed by both sides of the reaction, the dev post and responses felt passive aggressive and holier-than-thou, but I also really don't condone the vitriol from the gamer™'s Just my 2c that no-one asked or cares abt
Mackerel 01-Aug-19 10:21 PM
I've scrolled back through hours of complaints and answers. They don't know if it's coming to steam yet. (edited)
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 10:22 PM
DNF is a totally different story, that's an example of sunk cost fallacy, and that maybe sometimes people should give up
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 10:22 PM
It has to sell well on EGS first. The devs have been cagey with the exact numbers
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 10:23 PM
yea sometimes you gotta kill your babies. not every idea you have is gonna be golden and you gotta realize when to let em go
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 10:23 PM
They signed an NDA. As in, they legally cannot share those numbers. They have said this several times now. (edited)
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 10:23 PM
yeah, I was just joking. DNF was super rushed at the end
trashtabby 01-Aug-19 10:23 PM
with other games the timed exclusivity tends to be a year or half a year, at least for the games for which the developers or publisher were able to be public about it (edited)
47Ways 01-Aug-19 10:24 PM
@Kozmosbound Sergey Galyonky has literally said they're allowed to share them
Mackerel 01-Aug-19 10:24 PM
Imagine sharing false information. Question is, whose in the wrong. (edited)
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 10:26 PM
problem with this timed exclusive stuff is that games are still gonna be coming out in the meantime. how interested are people going to be after a year with all that stuff in between? will they still remember it?
47Ways 01-Aug-19 10:27 PM
World War Z, for example, shared their sales numbers. Satisfactory devs too.
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 10:27 PM
I would be legit surprised if Epic didn't have them sign an NDA on exclusivity time length/sales quota. Just because other devs have talked about what their exclusivity times are, doesn't mean that everyone can. Some companies have millions of dollars and a legal team that can negotiate the terms to an NDA.
Bexe 01-Aug-19 10:27 PM
i wonder how many of the sales are via epic
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 10:27 PM
honestly, how fast everyone is to rush to drama with small game dev sucks. reminds me of the recent Play Date (tm) fiasco that was just a misunderstanding
trashtabby 01-Aug-19 10:28 PM
yeah, it's possible (likely even) that not all of the publishers and developers get the same contract or NDA, actually this is definitely true since the amount of time the games are exclusive varies (edited)
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 10:28 PM
it's usually the teams with a friendly face that get the worst of it
❤ 4
hungercry 4
grebun 2
Mackerel 01-Aug-19 10:28 PM
@Pixel Hat One of the yellow names, ARC I believe, thought it wasn't going to be a problem. (edited)
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 10:28 PM
people don't get angry at faceless corporations.. cuz they're faceless
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 10:29 PM
Hang in there. Might not seem like it right now, but you've got tons of folks here supporting y'all. ❤
47Ways 01-Aug-19 10:29 PM
people don't get angry at faceless corporations? what? have you seen the stuff that gets thrown at EA? lol
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 10:29 PM
Well that's a flat out lie. People get mad at corporations all the time, and for good reasons too.
sa 01-Aug-19 10:30 PM
it's easier to get angry at people than a faceless corp. people still get angry at em
Bexe 01-Aug-19 10:30 PM
rather, i wonder how many of the sales are from epic as in, i wonder whether epic funds devs via "here's x dollars" or "here's x copies we've bought upfront from you, while we operate as a middleman, which we'll pass on to paying customers once it comes out"
Pixel Hat 01-Aug-19 10:30 PM
it is kinda like getting two launches, but ive seen it fail before. first launch is usually where the money is and the image of the game was damaged with this. but then again it has gained notoriety and more people know about it what the heck happens on launch, no one can really predict
Mackerel 01-Aug-19 10:30 PM
@nonplayercat You say a friendly face, but obviously after hours of being pelted with criticisms and trolling, a more cynical side has appeared over time. Expecting a barking dog to stop barking when you poke it with a stick isn't going to make it stop barking.
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 10:31 PM
I think it's a lot easier to go after smaller folks in general, and if you're going after a large corporation, it's unlikely the weight of it will fall upon a specific individual
trashtabby 01-Aug-19 10:31 PM
people get mad at faceless corporations, but also keep in mind that those corporations can pay for PR people and for people to handle customer service and social media for them (who shouldn't get hate from folks either btw!). for a game like Ooblets, you're talking directly to the devs who on top of having to make the game have to respond to people as well.
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 10:32 PM
@trashtabby And even with PR people and Customer Service to take the brunt of it, it's emotionally taxing on them, let alone being directed at someone specifically.
rhymenoceros 01-Aug-19 10:32 PM
just wanted to show some support to the ooblets devs. y'all are doing great. get that bag ✊
💜 5
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 10:32 PM
❤
TheLexikitty 01-Aug-19 10:32 PM
^ 💯 (what Joe said)
chralmus 01-Aug-19 10:35 PM
Whats a milestone exclusive mean btw? ?.?
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 10:35 PM
@chralmus Could mean a few things, Could be sales milestone, impression milestone, could be development milestone.
wil 01-Aug-19 10:35 PM
shout outs to you joe (edited)
LSWraith 01-Aug-19 10:35 PM
a lot of people got the impression it was sales, from what i've seen
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 10:35 PM
Oh, hey Wil! (edited)
Mackerel 01-Aug-19 10:37 PM
Honestly tencent doesn't bother me since I'll never bother with it in the first place, but I'm wondering what makes a team think Xbox of all things is the right path to go.
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 10:38 PM
@Mackerel Microsoft's support for indie developers is unparalleled. For indie devs looking to get to console easy, it's a really smart way to go.
Bexe 01-Aug-19 10:38 PM
microsoft : steam :: sony : epic ?
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 10:38 PM
being someone who remembers the 80s and 90s it is really weird to see Microsoft being good guys
wil 01-Aug-19 10:38 PM
@ koz 👋
👋 1
trashtabby 01-Aug-19 10:39 PM
yeah i can't say what Microsoft's deals are like but since so many indie devs are working with them I imagine that they must be pretty good (also hi wil!)
Mackerel 01-Aug-19 10:40 PM
@OrangeNova Is that just things you've heard? Because I've been watching how "unparalleled" Sony can be and can only imagine Microsoft pulling indie games left and right because of how fast of a dying brand/console it is. In fact not only imagine, I've seen it. (edited)
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 10:41 PM
@Mackerel I have experience with it, not just from what I've heard. But also from what I've heard from other devs.
wil 01-Aug-19 10:41 PM
i imagine microsoft understands their business better than anyone here mackerel, and hi tabby i'm happy to see you here!!
Mackerel 01-Aug-19 10:42 PM
@OrangeNova so no primary information such as quarterly sales and the like. only experience from what you've heard "other devs" say because you find them to be believable? Switches are selling faster than Xboxs and aren't even being sold regionally in places like japan as a video game console, but a BluRay player.
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 10:43 PM
@Mackerel No, as an employee of an indie game studio, I have experience with it. I have also talked to other devs about it, and they often say the same thing.
Synxao 01-Aug-19 10:45 PM
hi, so i found out about this game from an article on the game's site about the game becoming an epic exclusive, and saw some comments from the dev here and wondered why does it seem so condescending to legitimate worries/criticisms about the EGS platform?
Mackerel 01-Aug-19 10:47 PM
@OrangeNova I'd like to see you explore why it's so great for indie developers to get into Microsoft's programs and how helpful they are. Compared to the sinking statistics almost all across the board of things I've already brought up, (I'd also like to include consumer trust), do you think it could be some form of panic since almost all exclusives have little to no pull, even availability in the market?
OrangeNova 01-Aug-19 10:49 PM
Microsoft doesn't require exclusivity for their indie dev support programs. The Xbox One has a fairly large install base across Europe and North America, and for most indie devs, while japan is cool, focusing on a single/english language is more than enough.
Mackerel 01-Aug-19 10:51 PM
I think we're going to do nothing but go in circles here so I'll retract my statements and questions.
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 10:57 PM
@nonplayercat @perplamps thanks for making the game, and congratulations on the new deal.
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 01-Aug-19 10:58 PM
"we made the decision to move to a launcher that is not available to some people who supported us" "they are in the wrong for being upset about our choice"
Synxao 01-Aug-19 10:59 PM
yeah im trying to ask something to the devs but im not getting a response in both chats, i dont think they will respond to any queries anymore
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 11:00 PM
The devs have been answering questions all day. You can use the search feature to see if your question has already been asked/answered.
Mackerel 01-Aug-19 11:00 PM
it may be against the majority in this echo chamber, but passive aggressiveness among the staff has shown itself through (as I said) "pelted criticism and trolling". the email lacked details for potential customers who looked forward to the project and truly in the grand scheme of announcements was all you needed. this created chat was a disgrace to community manager, consumer, and developer.
Faber 01-Aug-19 11:01 PM
Devs, spend some of that Epic money on hiring a PR manager
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 11:02 PM
The easiest answer syn is that you read it that way?
𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 01-Aug-19 11:05 PM
Hi I travel a lot and play between my desktop and laptop. I was really excited for this game until I heard it was an EGS exclusive. EGS is literally not an option for me because it does not support cloud saves. So how am I supposed to sync my gameplay between two different computers? I'm disappointed in this decision.
wil 01-Aug-19 11:05 PM
yeah i think this chat has been the precise opposite of an echo chamber and i think concerns were taken seriously throughout constant harassment today. feel free to use the search feature of discord to see if your questions/concerns were asked/raised. they most likely have been.
wooperz 01-Aug-19 11:06 PM
I would say suck it up
Mackerel 01-Aug-19 11:06 PM
yeah feel free to search when I said I already did that @wil (edited)
wooperz 01-Aug-19 11:08 PM
my other response would be "cry harder" or learn to use dropbox (re: no cloud saves)
AlphaVDP2 01-Aug-19 11:08 PM
@𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 @Luthyr Yeah! you can also likely set it up to be an automatic sync with something like Dropbox? Regardless, the steps to move saves around shouldn't been too difficult with a bit of planning 😃
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 11:09 PM
Does Windows honor symbolic links for things like game save directories?
Jaypi3 01-Aug-19 11:09 PM
So is the game never coming to Steam ever?
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 11:10 PM
Cloud saves are not something that just automatically works on steam without the developer doing a lot of work to implement logic related to cloud saves
Synxao 01-Aug-19 11:10 PM
because of the two minute delay i dont really want to post screenshots so ill try to copy and paste what i mean: "You’ll have to install EGS if you wanna buy Ooblets on PC. I know that’s asking a lot but I believe in you and your ability to download a free thing and create a user account (if you haven’t already done so to play Fortnite which I KNOW YOU HAVE)." the whole second sentence to me is just condescending to those who do not agree with EGS and acts like they are complaining about arbitrary things which are actually valid concerns, especially as all of the security issues outlined in many articles a while ago, people are going to be concerned either way. Of course this could be a joke, but judging by the way they reply to these concerns seems to be the opposite, regardless of if the storefront is free or not. "I get the appeal of wanting to seek out things to get angry about. Venting anger is cathartic and natural, but let’s have just a little perspective about what we decide to get angry about. Look at the things going on around you and ask yourself if there might be anything just a tad more worthwhile to be upset about. Here are just a few suggestions: Climate change Human rights abuses The new Twitter desktop UI The last season of Game of Thrones (Those last two were jokes, please don’t yell at people about them)" This in itself is condescending IMO as a whole. People do know about the bigger issues such as climate change etc, but people are able to complain about other things as well. Through this logic, couldn't we say that it's being hypocritical to even complain about people complaining since, as it says here, there are bigger issues? I think this is a few examples but I'm trying to not make it too long for discord to not send (over 2k characters).
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 11:10 PM
@Mackerel, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Mackerel said: @wil Read what I said you cocky *
𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 01-Aug-19 11:10 PM
that sounds really inconvenient for a single player game but okay I guess
AlphaVDP2 01-Aug-19 11:10 PM
@Nagnu yeah, I was wondering that too
wooperz 01-Aug-19 11:11 PM
gamers are all crybabies
wil 01-Aug-19 11:11 PM
@Jaypi3 reading the blog post, you can see their answer here:
Ooblets will be launching on PC through EGS. We won’t be selling the game on other PC stores for a pretty long while (that’s the exclusivity bit).
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 11:11 PM
@AlphaVDP2 I mean, I use symbolic links to sync saves and preferences on my mac all the time but never thought about doing it for Windows. I'd hope it works but they didn't get a real CLI until this year in Win10. lol
Kozmosbound 01-Aug-19 11:12 PM
Folks, I cannot stress enough how much you need to use the search feature to see if your question has already been answered. It's even quicker than typing out a whole question! Saves everyone's time.
Mackerel 01-Aug-19 11:12 PM
Imagine signing a contract that won't let you release the game to other platforms
AlphaVDP2 01-Aug-19 11:12 PM
@𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 , for sure its not simple. Different platforms have different capabilities, it will likely come to Epics launcher in the future. Hopefully the game is worth it to overcome some of those obstacles and enjoy the content 😃
𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 01-Aug-19 11:12 PM
Uh nobody was whining or crying I had a legit question
trashtabby 01-Aug-19 11:13 PM
EGS did just recently get support for cloud saves btw. iirc a couple of games use it right now (Moonlighter being one of them)
iruma cece 01-Aug-19 11:13 PM
The mods and the devs keep using "harassment" to describe all criticism from all sources, regardless of how rude or polite it was. @𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰
Mackerel 01-Aug-19 11:14 PM
In any case it seems this was some incredible viral marketing. Maybe a few false flags, but who knows. If the game ever makes it way to my Steam library I hope it won't play like the tumblr-genre mess I've seen before. Have a nice one, team.
𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 01-Aug-19 11:14 PM
Well the cloud saves according to their road map was supposed to be done a while ago and cloud saves only work for two games basically
DoobieTheHouseElf 01-Aug-19 11:15 PM
Hey has anyone changed their mind from one side of the fence to the other?
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 11:15 PM
Cloud sync is no joke hard to do. Give it time. It would be worse if Epic launched it and nuked people's saves (or drives)
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:16 PM
i used to not care for ooblets at all once i realized they prioritized minor things as opposed to actual gameplay, but now that there's drama involved, i care a lil bit.
trashtabby 01-Aug-19 11:16 PM
not every game on EGS is gonna have cloud saves, like nonplayercat said it's not something they can easily do. not every game on Steam has cloud saves either
Synxao 01-Aug-19 11:16 PM
no, i will change my mind if a dev can respond to my query though, i, like many just don't trust egs and its sad to see the responses being worded in such a condescending way (reasons above)
AlphaVDP2 01-Aug-19 11:16 PM
@Nagnu yeah, I'm a *nix as well and used to it just being a reality. @trashtabby @𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 oh, thats pretty cool that the store has it now! for sure, this isnt just a tick box that devs click to make it work, it requires extensive planning. esp for a smaller developer, it can be a huuuuuuge headache.
wooperz 01-Aug-19 11:16 PM
I went from buying one copy for myself to making sure I buy a copy for everyone I know that loves games with a chill, fun vibe
𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 01-Aug-19 11:17 PM
Well considering how much money they blow on exclusivity deals they could have hired a bunch of people to figure out cloud saves
Faber 01-Aug-19 11:17 PM
Still working on shopping cart technology
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:18 PM
honestly, i was only looking at ooblets bc i didn't expect nintendo to announce a new normal animal crossing but they did and now i dont care for ooblets almost at all anymore 😦
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wooperz 01-Aug-19 11:18 PM
Then why are you here?
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 11:18 PM
Then why are you so mad
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:19 PM
BECAUSE ITS THE COOL THING TO DO. DUH
Synxao 01-Aug-19 11:19 PM
guys can any devs please answer my comment? i am not trying to be toxic at all and will not be
AlphaVDP2 01-Aug-19 11:19 PM
@𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 yeah, I understand the frustration, esp if you personally have to juggle multiple devices. But lets try to keep in mind, that we don't know their finincial situation, and launching a game is very very hard. There is so much non-obvious cost that we don't have any idea about. And it sucks, but sometimes new and really useful features have to be sidelined just to get something out the door.
Rabirose 01-Aug-19 11:20 PM
I will say for me, I didn't even know about this Epic hoopla until today. What rubbed me the wrong way was the blog post and the continued denial that it was extremely tone deaf. I think an acknowledgment that it could have been worded differently would go a long way.
gowstfayce 01-Aug-19 11:20 PM
I joined at a bad time
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 11:20 PM
@Synxao What was your question?
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:20 PM
why do you think i'm mad? and i said i was here for the drama lmao
SailorMoonxRRx🌙 01-Aug-19 11:20 PM
Ditto, @gowstfayce
wooperz 01-Aug-19 11:20 PM
@Rabirose no one owes you anything, grow up
Synxao 01-Aug-19 11:21 PM
because of the two minute delay i dont really want to post screenshots so ill try to copy and paste what i mean: "You’ll have to install EGS if you wanna buy Ooblets on PC. I know that’s asking a lot but I believe in you and your ability to download a free thing and create a user account (if you haven’t already done so to play Fortnite which I KNOW YOU HAVE)." the whole second sentence to me is just condescending to those who do not agree with EGS and acts like they are complaining about arbitrary things which are actually valid concerns, especially as all of the security issues outlined in many articles a while ago, people are going to be concerned either way. Of course this could be a joke, but judging by the way they reply to these concerns seems to be the opposite, regardless of if the storefront is free or not. "I get the appeal of wanting to seek out things to get angry about. Venting anger is cathartic and natural, but let’s have just a little perspective about what we decide to get angry about. Look at the things going on around you and ask yourself if there might be anything just a tad more worthwhile to be upset about. Here are just a few suggestions: Climate change Human rights abuses The new Twitter desktop UI The last season of Game of Thrones (Those last two were jokes, please don’t yell at people about them)" This in itself is condescending IMO as a whole. People do know about the bigger issues such as climate change etc, but people are able to complain about other things as well. Through this logic, couldn't we say that it's being hypocritical to even complain about people complaining since, as it says here, there are bigger issues? I think this is a few examples but I'm trying to not make it too long for discord to not send (over 2k characters). @nonplayercat
deputy john glock 01-Aug-19 11:21 PM
Nice essay.
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 11:21 PM
I mean the blog post might have irritated some people, but regardless of whether people liked it or not, it wasn't hurting anybody. You can disagree with it / not like it, and that's fine and I respect that. I hope that makes sense 😃
𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 01-Aug-19 11:21 PM
@wooperz why are the devs banning people for toxicity when you respond to people like that 🤔
Rabirose 01-Aug-19 11:22 PM
@wooperz I never said I was owed anything? I said I think an acknowledgement would be nice. And I'm a grown woman so don't come for me
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:22 PM
@Synxao those questions have been answered time and time again today. Use the search function in discord to find the answers you seek.
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 11:22 PM
Thats not really a question @Synxao and I don't really understand what purpose it serves
but I have seen that people don't like the blog post, and I respect that
It's like telling somebody "Hey I don't like the sound of your voice, what are you going to do about it?"
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:23 PM
can a blog post really be tonedeaf when the dev making it herself is tonedeaf? really maik u think 🤔
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 01-Aug-19 11:24 PM
@nonplayercat So for people that can't buy the game on EGS. What can they do? What if they supported the game on patreon?
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 11:24 PM
okay, real question @nonplayercat since we all seem to be stumped, can we use a symlink in Windows to replicate cloud saves with a service line onedrive or dropbox
wooperz 01-Aug-19 11:24 PM
I liked the blog post. You made the game, you don't owe anyone anything. You get that coin, you earned it. Don't let the nasties on the internet break your stride. 🙌🏽
AlphaVDP2 01-Aug-19 11:24 PM
@Nagnu hahaha, the real questions 😃
Synxao 01-Aug-19 11:24 PM
im just saying i kinda hated seeing genuinely concerned people about the egs situation and being turned down aggressively by the devs, and the blogpost does not help with the outlook towards people who didn't know about the game but may be interested either
Pentore 01-Aug-19 11:25 PM
Someone promote wooperz already, that is enough as kissing to get you anywhere.
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:25 PM
@hotcereal try cold cereal, you might calm down and stop being such a hater.
MoogleMcGee 01-Aug-19 11:25 PM
Now that I've taken the time to read the whole post I feel it was incredibly tone deaf as to why people don't like Epic as a company and the dev responses below that blog post didn't help either. I was looking forward to playing this but because of the switch to Epic and my choice of operating system I now can not play Ooblets until it, if ever, comes to a store that I can actually use.
deputy john glock 01-Aug-19 11:25 PM
How many minutes did it take you to come up with that, I'm curious.
𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 01-Aug-19 11:25 PM
so is being a concerned consumer now being defined as a hater?
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:26 PM
you really thought you did something there lmao "his name is.....hot...cereal....imma tell him to...uh...try COLD cereal to calm down...yea..." (edited)
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 11:26 PM
❤ hey guys! We don't all have to like the blog post. It isn't targeted at any specific individual and it wasn't hurting anyone
rhymenoceros 01-Aug-19 11:26 PM
as a consumer american,
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 11:26 PM
we don't all have to like the same things or appreciate the same tone
dacupcakebomb 01-Aug-19 11:26 PM
Except it clearly hurt several people.
wil 01-Aug-19 11:26 PM
let's all not lie and act as if this EGS situation came out of nowhere. everytime EGS announces a new exclusive devs take the brunt of harrassment and insults instead of that energy being properly directed to epic themselves (edited)
Reldio 01-Aug-19 11:27 PM
It does hurt people. People follow a wholesome-looking game only to find a blog post directed at 'gamers' with a highly passive aggressive tone that misses the points people try to make. It hurts people, your community and your sales.
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 11:27 PM
@wooperz, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@wooperz said: @𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 you're a consumer, so buy it or don't. Whining gets you nowhere. @Pentore it's not *** kissing. let's see your game.. or your.. music.. or art..? or anything. Produce some content and then you can talk.
Sunslammer 01-Aug-19 11:27 PM
Epic bad
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:27 PM
Hot cereal isn’t being concerned. They literally said they don’t care about the game.
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:28 PM
facts, i don't care about this drama either but boy am i here for it
deputy john glock 01-Aug-19 11:28 PM
But she just said it DOESN'T hurt people, guys! Didn't you read? Everything is fine. Totally.
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 11:28 PM
I think I'm just struggling to understand what action people are expecting me to take
they keep asking me "I need a response" and its like.. telling someone "Hey I dont like you, what are you going to do about it?"
Reldio 01-Aug-19 11:29 PM
But I suppose the sales might not matter so much because you did get an upfront cut which is understandable I guess. Also people aren't necessarily expecting you to take action, though I'm sure many would like an apology for the blog post's passive aggressive and rude attitude, but not everyone is here for action, they're here to give feedback on a situation 🤷
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:29 PM
@nonplayercat they want you to agree with them. That’s it, you do you and keep trucking. You owe them nothing honestly, you responding is more than 90% of these people deserve.
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 11:30 PM
People aren't here to give criticism, they're here to complain.
rhymenoceros 01-Aug-19 11:30 PM
the outrage would be there regardless of the tone of the post. y'all have handled yourselves with more grace than anyone deserves.
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:30 PM
release the game for free on kickasstorrents or thepiratebay and donate the money epic gave you to andrew yang's presidential campaign #yanggang2020
𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 01-Aug-19 11:30 PM
1) An apology to all your patrons 2) a set date for how long the deal will last 3) remove the snarky comments on the blog and from your moderators?
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Revy-Scary-Skeleton 01-Aug-19 11:30 PM
@nonplayercat How about not taking the Epic deal? How about talk to the community about first and see if that can work out. If you had trouble everyone is always there to help.
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wil 01-Aug-19 11:30 PM
also @Synxao i took the time to use Discord's search function because you did not, and found that one of the developer's responded to concerns that their tone was condescending. please feel free to use the search function to save the dev's from more headache! to find it, please type: from: perplamps#0001 condescending remember to use the search function to see if your concern/question has been asked and answered
Pentore 01-Aug-19 11:30 PM
I would like another blog post, keep it as tone-deaf as the other one.
wooperz 01-Aug-19 11:30 PM
@wackydeli 👍🏽
Synxao 01-Aug-19 11:30 PM
i am sorry if you are not the one who wrote the blogpost or replied to other concerned people in aggressive ways as i have seen you have been very polite what i have seen so far, but i just really want to give some possibly good advice to maybe reword the blog post and for other devs to reply to genuinely concerned people who arent trying to spread hate in a non-hateful way as this can't look good for the game going forward. I am genuinely not here to complain @nonplayercat
wil 01-Aug-19 11:32 PM
there have been numerous online strangers who have offered advice today synxao, consider that maybe your advice is unwarranted and also perhaps things they've already heard today.
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:32 PM
Everyone’s so high and mighty on the internet. Being tough boys and girls, but it boils down to if you can keep doing the thing you love and not worry about making rent next month. YOU WOULD SO IT TOO. If you disagree you’re a liar or you’ve never struggled period.
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 11:32 PM
They've said they aren't going to re-write it or apologize. Continuing to ask for those things aint gonna do anything
nonplayercat 01-Aug-19 11:32 PM
I'm not the one who wrote it, but I stand behind what was written. We appreciate the feedback though and it's totally valid for folks to disagree with us
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:32 PM
give us four separate cohesive blog posts about the game but make sure they're all tonedeaf and involve at least three separate races. that way the tonedeafness will cancel out but the races will leave one to survive and the rest to perish
Reldio 01-Aug-19 11:32 PM
There are lots of posts, mainly from the perplamps developer as far as I can tell, that are now floating around on the internet forever, showing him being extremely rude to people giving their feedback on the epic deal. Taking an epic deal and people being upset is the natural course of things and everyone can move on. Taking an epic deal and then people being upset followed by someone on your dev team getting angry and heated and referring to every upset person as entitled, or toxic, or 'baby gamers' as he says in an image here, is something that will permanently damage the reputation of your company and your games.
wooperz 01-Aug-19 11:33 PM
@rhymenoceros 👍🏽
Dr.Langeskov 01-Aug-19 11:33 PM
Is the exclusivity for a year like standard or longer or flexible? I trying to find were it says but it just seemed kinda vague?
𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 01-Aug-19 11:33 PM
But it's not valid to have your mods insult your community
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Revy-Scary-Skeleton 01-Aug-19 11:33 PM
@nonplayercat And again i ask, what about people that can't buy the game on EGS? What if they supported the game on Patreon? They don't have that right anymore?
sa 01-Aug-19 11:33 PM
is the deal even explicitly "epic only" or like I've seen with other games where it is "just not steam" and they release it on other platforms that aren't steam @nonplayercat
spoingal 01-Aug-19 11:34 PM
this is just making me sadder and sadder 😦
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 11:34 PM
Patreon isn't kickstarter. No games were promised in return for pledging money. Also, none of the moderators here have insulted anybody from what I recall. I think people are confusing who the mods are
Rabirose 01-Aug-19 11:34 PM
@Revy-Scary-Skeleton they've already said nobody is owed a game. Which further shows why a PR person may be needed. Not everyone knows how to put out a fire 🔥
deputy john glock 01-Aug-19 11:34 PM
Personally, I'm having a good old time just sitting here watching this.
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:34 PM
I keep seeing the patreon thing, is there a tier that guarantees you get the game for supporting?
wil 01-Aug-19 11:34 PM
@𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 who are you offended on behalf of? i checked and today has been the first day you've participated in this discord
MoogleMcGee 01-Aug-19 11:34 PM
Public relations is not something I expect any dev to understand, but it is something that is needed when giving any kind of announcement to any kind of customer. It's in the way news is delivered. At this point the best PR move would be to make another blog post with a small, if insincere, apology from someone. Cut all the snark and let everyone know that there was no ill intent. That's damage control 101, source I'm a former corporate lawyer and helping companies write blanket insincere apologies is just one of the things we do. (edited)
arc 01-Aug-19 11:35 PM
@spoingal : ( my recommendation then is to just not read it, it will blow over in like a few days and none of the people going all crazy right now will even remember anything happened
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hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:35 PM
the community is bigger than just this discord lol
Pentore 01-Aug-19 11:35 PM
@Revy-Scary-Skeleton They already got the cash, no need for customers or a fanbase. I like how epics cash make devs show their true colors, honestly it is always an interesting read.
dacupcakebomb 01-Aug-19 11:35 PM
@wil just because we haven't participated in the discord before now doesn't mean we haven't been supporting the game through patreon.
Reldio 01-Aug-19 11:35 PM
@TucanSam Is 'perplamps' not a mod or member of the dev team then?
Faber 01-Aug-19 11:36 PM
I respect @nonplayercat 's mature approach to this. But @perplamps should refrain from blogposting, the guy is doing nothing but damaging the reputation of the game with prickly anti-consumer snark
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TucanSam 01-Aug-19 11:36 PM
Perplamps and NPC are the owners and two developers of the game. They aren't simply "mods". They're admins.
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 01-Aug-19 11:36 PM
@Rabirose @Pentore So it turns out the devs were really greedy all along and never really cared about the fans and people that just want to play the game? Seems like it
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arc 01-Aug-19 11:37 PM
honestly, if i were a game dev these days i would be making posts like that too, and i would be fine with people who would be offended by it not buying my game. in fact i would prefer if they didn't
spoingal 01-Aug-19 11:37 PM
i might be better off not knowing the way some people think.
Synxao 01-Aug-19 11:37 PM
@wil No matter how many people repeat the advice im giving, it is still warranted in my eyes as confirmed by one of the devs. You are not helping with the image of the game with how you are speaking to people yourself, aim that attitude to people who deserve it. I agree wholeheartedly with @Reldio and @MoogleMcGee , i also highly respect @nonplayercat for being very respectful and contributing to a good image for the game and company.
wil 01-Aug-19 11:37 PM
a question then -- is the "supporter" tag given here by connecting your patreon to this discord?
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:37 PM
Yes
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:37 PM
idk why yall expect like company-level pr from a game made by 2, maybe 3 people. they're just some 20-somethings making a video game for people who use tumblr. they're not nintendo, not even ea. please go off, let the drama flow
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 11:38 PM
@Katabatic, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Katabatic said: hot **** I don't think "not going off on your own playerbase" is "company-level PR"
ABCelestial 01-Aug-19 11:40 PM
The majority of the people are, and never have been, the playerbase. A lot of the playerbase has been supportive throughout the day. Some people have said they're out, but they obviously have the right to leave. Everyone does. But a lot of this is not coming from the playerbase.
wil 01-Aug-19 11:40 PM
i would think that the developers here have no real way to identify their community. perhaps if patreons connected their discords, they could see and identify genuine criticism from their supporters
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:40 PM
"going off" it was a blog post....lmao.....
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 11:40 PM
Eh, I think repeating the same "people are offended" over and over is like responding to a reddit comment with "I agree"
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:41 PM
I’ve been a supporter for a while now, and im not happy but I can wait until it comes to steam. I’m not going to lose my mind not getting to play day 1. I just don’t understand the anger for something you “support” to be able to get finished
Reldio 01-Aug-19 11:41 PM
The reason people keep spouting the same complaints is because the devs continue to ignore people's actual concerns in favour of claiming they just don't want to install a store front/are entitled/just don't like their 'tone'. If people felt like their complaints were actually heard, then the same repeated complaints would stop being repeated @Nagnu
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:42 PM
I think I just got through all the emails people have sent btw, not many people actually opted to put their arguments into writing
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 11:42 PM
Patrons are connected to discord?
arc 01-Aug-19 11:42 PM
people don't treat kickstarter/patreon/their desire to buy a game as support. they think putting money down, or simply wanting something, means they deserve to have it, and in exactly the way they want to have it, with no compromises
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:42 PM
so I'm available to respond to some more emails if you want to share your valid concerns or criticisms with me: perplamps@gmail.com
Synxao 01-Aug-19 11:43 PM
@ABCelestial Regardless if the majority of people here have not been from the playerbase prior to the blogpost (which I actually only found out about the game from complaints from the blogpost, so I could have been a potential new addition to the playerbase, however the blog post could have swayed me from supporting the game because of how it was worded, you can still support the game. Support does not always equal positive affirmations, instead, it does also include criticism as well which is what people are giving here.
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:43 PM
When Spongebob was good...
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:43 PM
@Reldio
see above
Parzi 01-Aug-19 11:43 PM
What are the legit complaints against EGS? (I cba to read back lol) all my friends complaints literally are just "I don't want another account"
wil 01-Aug-19 11:43 PM
@TucanSam i was responding with that from someone who did not have the "supporter" tag but indirectly claimed they were patrons.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:44 PM
@Synxao the thing is, if you're from the eff-Epic subreddit or 4chan, you would never have been in our potential customer base, and if you were, you would have had a lot of complaints about the game after buying it
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dacupcakebomb 01-Aug-19 11:44 PM
@arc that is simply untrue. It is infuriating to believe you are supporting a game you care about and find out later that you're really just helping a couple pay their rent after choosing to move to a city with one of the highest cost of living and the second highest homeless rates in the country ON A WHIM.
Pentore 01-Aug-19 11:44 PM
@perplamps still labeling people I see
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:45 PM
But that’s all patreon is, it’s not a preorder
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 11:45 PM
Wait, what? What do you think buying a game.... does? It supports the people who made it by... paying their rent
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:45 PM
@dacupcakebomb the thought that you can dictate our living situation is the type of entitled toxic gamer crap I was referring to
arc 01-Aug-19 11:45 PM
what on earth did i even just read? if developers receive income based on their work, they can spend the money on whatever they want. what point are you even trying to make?
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 11:45 PM
yeah, I'm confused by that patreon gripe, it isn't Kickstarter, yeesh
sa 01-Aug-19 11:46 PM
I would still buy the game if you launched it standalone without epic or some other platform tbh @Luthyr because waiting (edited)
wil 01-Aug-19 11:46 PM
believe it or not people use the money they make from work to live and pay rent and eat food it is a shocking concept dacupcakebomb
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:46 PM
we've always been careful about the things we promise in the hopes that it would quell entitled folks from ranting about all the stuff they're entitled to
Rabirose 01-Aug-19 11:47 PM
Getting into their personal lives is a bit much.. I don't care where they move to.
Synxao 01-Aug-19 11:47 PM
@perplamps I am not from any of those groups. Instead, I found out about the game from my friend who sent me a link to your game from which I found out the blogpost. I would have been interested in looking to buy the game, unfinished or not finished as I like to support indie games especially (I have even supported games way way back in the beginning before they are even on any storefront, so trust me, I would have supported it), however the way the blogpost was worded and your responses to genuinely concerned people have not given a good image. I am not here to act entitled or to be toxic; I am wanting to offer genuine criticism.
Sombodh 01-Aug-19 11:47 PM
but i'm pretty sure you said on a steam post it was guaranteed(or almost) to release on steam
Reldio 01-Aug-19 11:47 PM
Just as a note to all the people not sure why people care about epic or not sure why people care when it'll come to steam eventually please refer to the well-made post I'll link for the third time detailing LOTS of things wrong with Epic as a company. It's not about installing a launcher, it's about not wanting to support them as a company. https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckepic/comments/bs4kh6/rfuckepic_for_dummies_a_quick_breakdown/
1,210 votes and 152 comments so far on Reddit
ABCelestial 01-Aug-19 11:47 PM
I have been a Patreon member for a year now. I am happy to have given the dev's all of twelve dollars to go towards their rent. Nothing has been promised to me, I have donated my twelve dollars on my own free will.
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:47 PM
I’m a hillbilly redneck with a doctorate from Mississippi, and I’m blown away by all the stuff I read here. Y’all need Jesus.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:48 PM
reldio, please don't spam that link, especially since it breaks our rules of keeping chat pg
arc 01-Aug-19 11:48 PM
i have read this blog post now and honestly, there is nothing in here to be upset about. some people are toxic. if you think "i'm not toxic" and you aren't toxic, then the post isn't about you. if you are toxic, then you can't justify being upset for being called out on your behavior
Patch 01-Aug-19 11:48 PM
There's a couple of angles to this that I see with general feedback concerning the announcement. 1) Epic Game Store 2) Public Relations 1) EGS has created political friction among PC gamers for reasons varying from "I irrationally dislike Epic, either products or services" to "product exclusivity is detrimental to the longevity of competitive business practices and consumer benefit" Wherever you may fall in that range, or if not at all, understand that the team when given the offer chose what was best for the success of their project. 2) PR is difficult, especially if it's PR around controversial topics. Taking this post into consideration, it was "tongue-in-cheek" as previous posts, however given the content, is scrutinized in greater detail. Here's what I would picture as an ideal re-writing, say for instance a heart-to-heart with a best friend or family member tells you: "I made a tough choice, you may not agree with it, I might not even be saying it right. But know, I'm trying to do what's best, it's not perfect and everything might not work out, but I hope you can still support me." Perhaps that would have been a more wholesome tone, one better embraced, but this is a case by case and varies person to person, topic to topic and is seldom universally accepted. End of the day, my hope is that the game, when in my hands, captures the joy and excitement as when I was first introduced to the project (and that the developers can be proud of their work)
sa 01-Aug-19 11:49 PM
@arc You can be upset without being toxic about it, a lot of people commenting here have expressed these sentiments
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TucanSam 01-Aug-19 11:49 PM
At this point a re-write is pointless
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:49 PM
if they dont use the money they got and literally donate it all to a childrens hospital, they're truly horrible people. they choose to spend the money on themselves bu they could be spending it on climate change awareness, exposing human rights abuses, building a new twitter desktop ui, or even funding a new season of game of thrones. but they're selfish and use it on themselves. like my boy gru would say, "despicable"
Reldio 01-Aug-19 11:49 PM
Alright bud just trying to give feedback to the people spouting the same 'Who cares about epic' thing. Kinda like what you guys should do with all the complaints people make.
Parzi 01-Aug-19 11:49 PM
@Reldio I get and would agree with any security flaws of course when your credit info potentially on the line, but a lot of the rest is scummy business practices, which I'm sure I can find egregious offenses from almost any other company as well ... Especially if I'm on a subreddit dedicated to hating them
fabybacenelson 01-Aug-19 11:50 PM
I know there's a lot of messages right now so this'll probably get lost, but I want to preface by saying I've been following the game since it's announcement at e3. I don't think having just joined the discord disqualifies me from being a "long time fan" since there wasn't much to discuss about an unreleased game with no beta version. I still want to buy the game (on switch someday, hopefully), and I'm sympathetic to the small group of devs having to do everything PR on top of make the game. But I would be far more comfortable supporting the game if the devs reeled it in on the passive aggressive/sarcastic front. I'm especially uncomfortable with the ooblets Twitter having liked a post implying everyone complaining is autistic and they don't have valid reasons for being upset with the status quo change. People have political and personal reasons for not wanting to support epic and I don't think they should be brushed off. That said, I've mostly seen the worst comments from the devs highlighted on Reddit/Twitter. But the aggression (even in response to a barrage of upset players) and painting people as "whining" or "entitled" seems very tone deaf. People who care about your game enough to get upset can help you market your game and make it's image, so many people being upset in a previously supportive and excited community reads to me as there being Something that is valid and striking them the wrong way. I can't respond to this, I am already putting off too much work. I'm sure plenty of people will tag in or this will just go lost in the flood.
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:50 PM
A re-write just gives the trolls what they want, and @hotcereal you are a pot stirrer and it’s sad that this is all you got going on.
MoogleMcGee 01-Aug-19 11:50 PM
Everything I've read from perplamps, on twitter and now here, proves more than ever to me that you need someone to handle PR. Your responses here are not helping your case in anyway, in fact from a PR perspective it's making you out to the entitled one. Very "Why are people mad at me? I guess they just don't want my game! stomps off with game in arms" It doesn't take much to stop most of this junk from flowing in, but it does require initiative.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:51 PM
@Patch good write up
spoingal 01-Aug-19 11:51 PM
woah woah, the liked a post saying What?
Synxao 01-Aug-19 11:51 PM
I agree with @MoogleMcGee
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 11:51 PM
@fabybacenelson How many screenshots show the abuse they've taken from the pure hearted people who came in here and got "abused"?
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:51 PM
are you gonna tell me to eat cold cereal again 🤣
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 11:51 PM
I'm wondering if there is a roving pack of PR people looking for a job by critiquing blog posts online
james 01-Aug-19 11:52 PM
Referred here from /r/drama I have four launchers already (Steam, GOG, UPlay and Origin) and I'm really not looking forward to adding a fifth, and I am totally sympathetic to the financial incentives for the developers. I even understand when you think that your customers are entitled, insufferable jerks. But why say that 4chan people don't deserve to buy your game? Or /r/fuckepic people, or whatever? Saying that people with this opinion, you won't do business with them, I can't abide that, as a 4chan user myself.
rhymenoceros 01-Aug-19 11:52 PM
what a disgusting comment, trying to dictate the living circumstances of people who are just making a video game and trying to make a living.
LeoKira997 01-Aug-19 11:52 PM
why do you think it is entitlement for wanting a game to be on the store you use? you act as if you released on steam you could not release on any other store when that just simply isnt so, people are upset about epic exclusivity because if they want to play the game they have to use something they dont want to use, whether its because they dont like that companies business practices, it lacks features the store they use has or because they simply would just prefer to have all of their stuff in one place instead of spread out across multiple places. epic exclusivity so far has provided no benefit to the customer and has only given a benefit to the publisher/dev and that benefit is solely money for the sake of getting whatever game it is to be exclusive to the epic game store for 1 year (or 6 months in the case of borderlands 3)
ABCelestial 01-Aug-19 11:52 PM
Gross.
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:52 PM
@hotcereal eat some cold cereal and calm down buddy
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:53 PM
@fabybacenelson i run the ooblets twitter account and I like a lot of tweets but I don't have any intent of delving into anything relating to autism...
Venera 01-Aug-19 11:53 PM
To the people saying re-writes are pointless, I very much disagree with that sentiment, as somebody looking forward to this game since day 1 of the announcement but hasn't been on the discord (Yes, we do exist) I'd feel so much happier buying it knowing the message was altered since the current message comes off poorly to me personally.
SIETSO 01-Aug-19 11:53 PM
leo 🤐 unnyhunny
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:53 PM
the mad lad actually did it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifaoKZfQpdA
When Spongebob was good...
arc 01-Aug-19 11:54 PM
it's not entitlement to want something. it's entitlement to come and argue to the developer that they shouldn't have chosen to do things in the way you don't want them to, when the developer clearly has more information about why they made the decision and it's their livelihood and creative output on the line, while the maximum of what we are putting on the line is waiting another x amount of time to play a video game
Pentore 01-Aug-19 11:54 PM
Generalization, antagonizing people posting their opinion, dismissing concerns as "just toxic gamers" or "they are not our target audience anyway". From the responses here, pretty sure @perplamps wrote that blog post because @nonplayercat actually seem to know how to communicate with people.
JessLynnStudio 01-Aug-19 11:54 PM
@perplamps Ooblets looks amazing. I've been crazy excited for this game for ages and I'm telling everyone I know about it(still). I'm sorry folks didn't handle your blog post well. Things will cool down though and my fiance and I are buying Ooblets the second it drops. Take care! And maybe take a day or two to cool off and focus on anything other than the game for a bit. Everybody needs a vacation sometimes.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:54 PM
@MoogleMcGee definitely could have avoided some of this with better PR, but we do things ourselves and thought talking openly (even if that meant calling out bad behavior) would be appreciated and I was obviously wrong on that front
𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 01-Aug-19 11:54 PM
wow what a professional dev I thought "there's another person on the other end"
james 01-Aug-19 11:54 PM
Entitlement is expressing your true opinions on a subject in a containment zone designed specifically for that subject?
Synxao 01-Aug-19 11:55 PM
@arc My problem is that people were getting aggressive responses from developers such as @perplamps when they said nothing of the sort that is relatable to being entitled, in fact it was the opposite and it was either genuine, calm criticism or just any comment that was calm, such as people saying that EGS did not accept their currency.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:55 PM
@Pentore good detective work, you clearly read the whole thing because it says my name in it
fabybacenelson 01-Aug-19 11:56 PM
Maybe I'm particularly sensitive to it, but it's not uncommon knowledge that "reeee" is a meme for autistic screeching, originated from those 4chan folk you mentioned
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:56 PM
oooh he on the defensive now. sic em boys
Blibber BOT 01-Aug-19 11:56 PM
@TheDarkKnight, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@TheDarkKnight said: Lmao Reddit soy, epic>steam 100x @perplamps don’t listen to em, epic pays more than ** steam anyways
Reldio 01-Aug-19 11:56 PM
As an attempt to write up some personal feelings on the game, I like wholesome games and this certainly seemed like one of them. I was introduced to it via steam and wishlisted it there. The epic exclusivity doesn't -really- bother me, I don't like epic, but I can wait a year or two to get the game on my preferred storefront. However, if I do get this game in a year or whatever it's going to be in the back of my mind that this wholesome game has someone behind it that went on and on about baby gamers, entitled gamers, toxic gamers etc etc and the condescending blog post (honestly would have been better off saying 'We accepted the Epic deal because a lot of money upfront is nice') and it's going to sour my experience playing the game, and sour it's wholesome atmosphere.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:56 PM
@fabybacenelson I have to admit I don't actually patronize 4chan and am not up to date with the memes
spoingal 01-Aug-19 11:56 PM
@fabybacenelson youre correct, although its not always common knowledge u_u unfortunately im hyper aware of it myself, being autistic
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:57 PM
@perplamps there are no memes here don’t forget....
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:57 PM
seems more like folks trying to latch on to anything they can to justify their righteous mob anger
arc 01-Aug-19 11:57 PM
yep
james 01-Aug-19 11:57 PM
an autistic 4chan user using "reeeeee" is no different than a black twitter user using the n-word
𝔐𝔞𝔰𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔲𝔰 01-Aug-19 11:57 PM
I mean you should have expected the backlash considering your witty blog post
Nagnu 01-Aug-19 11:57 PM
Yeah, I'm in one discord where reee is used a lot without that context (that being said, the meme should probably be retired)
rhymenoceros 01-Aug-19 11:58 PM
the post was Good and clearly [gestures] warranted
Synxao 01-Aug-19 11:58 PM
@perplamps Would you include me with this mob anger? So far, I haven't had any responses from you on my actual points other than you saying along the lines of me being apart of the fuckepic group or 4chan, which both I am not affiliated with. 4Chan in no way I am affiliated at all, I hate the site in fact.
hotcereal 01-Aug-19 11:58 PM
idk why yall are so pressed about the egs, just pirate it and use it as a standalone
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:58 PM
@Synxao I'm not sure what points I didn't address. I saw you talking about how you were in the potential audience and I responded to that
spoingal 01-Aug-19 11:58 PM
@perplamps i dont think it was intentional but its a valid concern if people think you are the type of person who enjoys that kind of meme. ive been burned before. but it doesnt seem that you were aware of it.
perplamps 01-Aug-19 11:59 PM
but I admit I am missing a good portion of the things being said
SIETSO 01-Aug-19 11:59 PM
@Synxao @nonplayercat Already responded to you.. What more do you want? You keep asking the same stuff
wackydeli 01-Aug-19 11:59 PM
@hotcereal it’s been nice knowin ya cold cereal
fabybacenelson 01-Aug-19 11:59 PM
If you didn't know, then you didn't know. I didn't say I'm revoking my support of the game because of it, just that it made me uncomfortable, even the implication of it with most people who don't know it tends to fall along those kinds of "problematic" lines.
arc 01-Aug-19 11:59 PM
can we not recommend pirating a game literally in front of the developers of the game
Venera 01-Aug-19 11:59 PM
I feel like the tone of the blogpost and some of the messages on here are going to make this a bigger issue than it otherwise would have been
TucanSam 01-Aug-19 11:59 PM
I doubt that. The internet hate storm will ramp up and die down as usual
trashtabby 02-Aug-19 12:00 AM
fwiw i don't think it's that widely known that it's a meme about autism, i've seen plenty who used it without knowing. i do think it's disappointing to see it used so much though.
Pentore 02-Aug-19 12:00 AM
Will we get another blogpost with more "jokes"? Pretty please.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:00 AM
I think we did fan the flames but it's hard to believe if there wasn't any snark, people would have latched on to some other random thing
mothman 02-Aug-19 12:00 AM
when anyone who's upset about this is written off as an "entitled gamer baby" it makes me wonder, what concerns would be considered legitimate? under what circumstances could a long term fan say "i'm disappointed by this decision" and not be dismissed outright? its hard to trust that a studio that's unable or unwilling to handle people's concerns with grace will be able to put care into delivering a quality product. obviously gamers aren't entitled to anything but if you don't care what customers think at all where does that leave you? are sales important to you or not?
hotcereal 02-Aug-19 12:00 AM
i'm not doing it in front of the developers, there is only ONE developer actively here right now. sheesh.
Reldio 02-Aug-19 12:00 AM
It's already become more than it would have been @TucanSam so you're wrong 🤔
james 02-Aug-19 12:01 AM
@Venera Yu Suzuki of all people did the same thing, in the exact same context, and I really don't understand that highly specific aspect of it all. Why does it always happen that way? That one hurt a lot, honestly. I remember showing my friends Shenmue 1 trailers when it was first announced at age 10, and they all thought it was "gay" or whatever.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:01 AM
@mothman I've been trying to respond to legitimate criticism here and via email, but i've also spent most of the day dealing with 4chan and reddit brigades
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 12:01 AM
I think we've said all that we can possibly say about the tone of the article, and it doesn't seem like folks have anything constructive that we can really address
Raekai 02-Aug-19 12:01 AM
I can't believe I wasted a whole day being here. My day literally started with my girlfriend waking me up and saying, "Babe, Ooblets just announced it's going to be an Epic exclusive." That's crazy to me. What a world.
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 12:02 AM
haha we feel that way too
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TucanSam 02-Aug-19 12:02 AM
You can't say it is more than it would have been, because you have no idea what it would have been... lol
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:02 AM
I think we spent LESS time here than some people lol
think of all the trees we all could have planted
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Synxao 02-Aug-19 12:03 AM
@perplamps I just want you to realise how bad it really is to communicate in the ways you have been, especially with the generalising (everyone who hates is apart of 4chan or the fuckepic squad), and the condescending. It can really sway people's decisions from supporting the game if this is their first time hearing about it, and the blogpost doesn't help either. I have seen some people come here saying that EGS does not support their currency; perfect valid complaints that are not toxic at all. Yet, from what I have seen (which may not be the case of course), you have been pretty toxic towards them. It would greatly help to repair and strengthen your image of your game if this type of behaviour was reversed for the future.
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 12:03 AM
well I look forward to seeing what this discord is like when things are calmed down (didn't know it existed, followed Ooblets on twitter and whatnot)
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 12:03 AM
buddy how many times can you say the same thing over and over again
Parzi 02-Aug-19 12:03 AM
Bright side, perceived snark and sass is what drew me here, since I'm snarky and sassy in my own right, so I'll check ya game out now :) ya got at least one new fan following your game LOL
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Finn 02-Aug-19 12:03 AM
You gotta learn from the PR God himself; Drake. When controversy comes up, just say your piece keep it short then walk away. Wait for things to cool down then drop a fire gif that gets everyone excited again. That being said I admire your honest and personal approach. I think you are aware that in hindsight a more subtle approach may have been better! Congrats on the partnership and I look forward to buying the game 👌
Raekai 02-Aug-19 12:03 AM
@perplamps I might actually be at 1 million trees by now. 😉
CyberneticSquid 02-Aug-19 12:05 AM
Hello, I've just discovered this game, but I want to say that I think that making the agreement with Epic was a good idea. It gives you enough money to be certain you can finish the game, and as you said in your blog post, the launcher doesn't cost any money
hotcereal 02-Aug-19 12:06 AM
post your social security number if you think it's okay that they're choosing to make a game instead of feeding the poor and helping the homeless
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 12:06 AM
@james, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@james said: EGS apologists calling everyone who was specifically promised a Steam® key for Shenmue III and instead got a Kirkland Signature™ key "entitled" in the most patronizing tone possible did huge amounts of damage to Epic's reputation and the cycle is repeating here in the worst possible way. Especially when one could argue that they were quite literally entitled in that Shenmue case (as money had exchanged hands under the pretense of specific brand name content delivery) Dismissing people who have emotional or ideological disagreements with Epic's anticompetitive practices out of hand is your right as a developer. ****, accusing your customer base of being entitled idiots is your right as a citizen. I just do not think it will work out for you, and I find that quite unfortunate, as you have clearly put so much effort into this product.
deputy john glock 02-Aug-19 12:07 AM
Hey, can one of the internet janitors on this discord fix the bot, it isn't censoring people properly.
ABCelestial 02-Aug-19 12:08 AM
There's actually been a lot of people that've said something similar today, @Parzi . Where they had never heard of the game before the drama, but after seeing the game and the attitude it has, I've counted quite a few people who popped in to say they were in. The big difference is that they came in, said they liked what they saw, and they left, contrasted to the opposite side of that spectrum... where they've just sorta... lingered.
radladlaugh 1
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 12:08 AM
So what’s the point of this chat?
wackydeli 02-Aug-19 12:08 AM
To answer legitimate questions
fabybacenelson 02-Aug-19 12:09 AM
@LuckyBlue seems like for the devs to get yelled at and then yell back
OddPotato 02-Aug-19 12:09 AM
Hi, I just wanted to say I hope the people angry about epic aren't bringing you down
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:09 AM
really appreciate all the level headed folks here!
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 12:10 AM
<3 you guys are EPIC
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 12:10 AM
You’re basically screaming in the void. Do you think the reason they made this chat is so to ignore the angry people, basically you?
hotcereal 02-Aug-19 12:10 AM
we appreciate you too bro
MangoDuwudles 02-Aug-19 12:10 AM
I love your sassiness @perplamps :0
arc 02-Aug-19 12:11 AM
honestly, i had seen this game around a bunch and i wasn't going to buy it before but i think i will now :D
Raekai 02-Aug-19 12:11 AM
@LuckyBlue The point of this chat is for calm people to watch everyone else fling 💩 at each other. It's been fun, honestly.
shrumboshades 2
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spoingal 02-Aug-19 12:11 AM
regardless what grievances i had(ive already said my piece) im still excited for the game and will add it to my collection on epic which has been mostly their free games thus far haha
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:11 AM
@MangoDuwudles it's been said to not encourage me
Parzi 02-Aug-19 12:12 AM
@ABCelestial yeah I see that ... Yikes ... Side note, I still don't get why people get upset over Epic using anticompetitive practices against Steam... Valve is not your friend unless what they are doing is actively harming players or costing them more why does it matter? Valve would increases prices on games by 100% just for the sake of making more money if they thought they could get away with it, almost any business would. Anywho, I'm done for tonight lol, I look forward to seeing more about the game @perplamps @nonplayercat (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:12 AM
👍
fabybacenelson 02-Aug-19 12:12 AM
I think there's a reason why professional PR people would never open a chat like this, it doesn't seem very productive and just fodders a rage cycle
Synxao 02-Aug-19 12:12 AM
There were complaints over Epic tracking certain Steam folders on your computer (your library is one of them).
Reldio 02-Aug-19 12:12 AM
Painful to see people missing the point on why they hate epic especially @Parzi Epic have awful account security and customer support being a big one my dude. Nobody's details or accounts are safe with epic.
eggnugget ✧* 02-Aug-19 12:12 AM
I was honestly really excited for this game, and have been in the discord as a lurker for a while now. I am upset at the way that the devs interacted with some fans as there are real concerns many of us have about epic exclusivity. I understand that the devs have received a lot of hate, esp from people who haven’t been following the development of the game, but that is not an excuse to lump everyone together as being angry gamers who weren’t going to buy the game. I do feel like the sarcastic and snarky responses were lacking professionalism and did little to actually educate fans on what exclusivity means for the game. I don’t trust epic and will not be downloading (and yes I know it’s free.) When the game eventually does come to steam I’ll still be excited to play.
arc 02-Aug-19 12:13 AM
yes, valve is not your friend. idk why people think they are. somebody should make bumper stickers that say that
LeoKira997 02-Aug-19 12:13 AM
why do you think epic is your friend?
🇮 4
🇩 5
🇴 4
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Rodfigs 02-Aug-19 12:13 AM
Yea
deputy john glock 02-Aug-19 12:13 AM
Can I just say I loved that blogpost? I will definitely be purchasing a copy of Ooblets(™) for me and my friend!
hotcereal 02-Aug-19 12:13 AM
"bumper sticker" ok boomer
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 12:14 AM
yup @Parzi neither are your friend, a lot of the "good guy valve" consumer protections they have now where due to pressure from consumer advocacy groups. we need competition to drive innovation and EPIC is the first real competition
Venera 02-Aug-19 12:14 AM
The way I see it, it's perfectly okay to not like or want to support epic, I personally will just wait for steam. It's totally okay to support epic too.
james 02-Aug-19 12:14 AM
@Parzi I absolutely agree. Steam has unclean hands as well and is arguably worse than Epic. But no other game store causes developers to war with their own customers. I think there's something to be said about that, although I'm not quite sure what that is.
spoingal 02-Aug-19 12:14 AM
i know epic is terrible but im a sucka for free games and they got me!! they got me bro!!!
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:14 AM
we're all coming around to each other
sa 02-Aug-19 12:14 AM
valve isn't your friend but like... epic games...
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 12:15 AM
I waited for monster hunter world for almost a year to be on PC. So waiting for a year won’t kill me. Also Ooblets doesn’t appealing to me to preorder/ buy on epic or anywhere.
Kozmosbound 02-Aug-19 12:15 AM
Literally no corporation is your friend, folks.
Synxao 02-Aug-19 12:15 AM
Epic isn't your friend either, especially as they have (and may still) track your Steam files, specifically your Steam Games Library. @james What makes Valve worse than Epic out of curiosity?
lilykp 02-Aug-19 12:15 AM
epic games made one of my favorite games, fortni-just kidding it's unreal tournament
Vinuraba 02-Aug-19 12:15 AM
I wish they just left it at the cost/minimum guarantee on sales arguement rather than digging themselves in a whole using the same tired "Epic is not bad" arguements (edited)
deputy john glock 02-Aug-19 12:15 AM
Behind my shield, developers! I will protect you from these foul haters!
Parzi 02-Aug-19 12:15 AM
@Reldio literally like 15 comments above mine someone mentioned anticompetitive practices by Epic. I already told you I don't disagree with complaints surrounding account security, don't say I'm missing the point when I'm talking about something completely different please
Raekai 02-Aug-19 12:16 AM
If I can wait for Borderlands 3 on Steam, I can wait for Ooblets on Steam.
Reldio 02-Aug-19 12:16 AM
Valve also isn't your enemy but Epic might as well be. I don't see why anyone would want to invest much money into EGS when their security and customer support is lightyears behind literally every other PC game store. Crazy how Epic spent their endless pools of money buying exclusives outright instead of investing any of it into a good storefront, good customer support, or good account security. Either way I don't really care about ooblets exclusivity I just hate seeing everyone imply that Epic are fine or that Valve are somehow worse than epic
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 12:16 AM
@rhymenoceros, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@rhymenoceros said: there's no moral distinction worth making between egs and steam. neither valve nor epic is good. capitalism is ****. support independent art. go ooblets.
james 02-Aug-19 12:16 AM
@Synxao basically because a player with minority market share engaging in monopolistic practices isn't as bad as the company that actually commands the market.
Kozmosbound 02-Aug-19 12:17 AM
Oh no Joe.
OddPotato 02-Aug-19 12:17 AM
Ooblets has given me something to look forward to for the past few years. I think it's a really special game.
Vinuraba 02-Aug-19 12:17 AM
Also, stating that it took 15 years for steam to get as feature rich as it is, so give epic time is so dumb. Thats like saying a company that wants to get into phone market can release tech from 15 years ago and we can give them a pass cause theyre new
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Rodfigs 02-Aug-19 12:18 AM
Bro epic could just copy steam like epic doesent need ti make any groundbreaking features just basic things every store should have
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:18 AM
@Reldio I feel like we've gone round in circles about this, but like, isn't EGS brand new? were you alive when steam came out?
SIETSO 02-Aug-19 12:18 AM
ouch
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:18 AM
@Vinuraba but it's incredibly successful doing what it's doing, so it seems they can release things in the state they're in
james 02-Aug-19 12:18 AM
lol is this the famous "what are you, like 12?" argument?
sa 02-Aug-19 12:18 AM
it isn't 15 years ago... steam's initial release isn't acceptable for a storefront anymore (edited)
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 12:18 AM
Wanna say congrats to @nonplayercat, @perplamps and anyone else involved on this awesome deal with Epic. I've been following Ooblets for a long time, since my artist friend showed me a person dancing 😃 The Epic store isn't on my platform, but doesn't make me any less happy that this game exists and will be finished. Hopefully this deal has taken a boat load of stress off you guys during the final stages. Shipping games is not for the faint of heart. Especially for such a small team and a huge undertaking, you folks deserve all the good vibes and encouragement possible 😃
dayHeart 2
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 12:19 AM
by that logic Amazon should have quit because Walmart did everything they planned to do better when Amazon launched
OddPotato 02-Aug-19 12:19 AM
I think it is wrong for epic to pay for exclusives but that isn't the fault of Ooblets or glumber
Pentore 02-Aug-19 12:19 AM
Oh no the awful steam comparison again, when will you learn
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:20 AM
good arguments my dudes
Broccoli 02-Aug-19 12:20 AM
This isn’t epic
Synxao 02-Aug-19 12:20 AM
@james Valve is in no way a monopoly of the game industry. Origin for example includes all of EA's new releases which is not being sold on Steam. All of Blizzards games such as Overwatch, Diablo, Starcraft and WoW is not on steam but on battle.net. League of Legends is not on steam and has its own launcher. You can buy many games DRM free on places such as Humble Bundle, GOG and many others. You can buy all of Ubisoft's games on UPlay and not Steam. EGS obviously includes many big titles including Fortnite, which are not on Steam. These are just from the top of my head and proves that Steam is in no way a monopoly.
Reldio 02-Aug-19 12:20 AM
@perplamps I was alive when steam came out as it happens. Steam was in many ways the first store of it's kind and broke new ground in lots of areas. Other online stores HAD existed before, but not in the same form. Epic are not breaking any new ground, nor are they some small developer coding it in a garage or something. They're a giant corporation, with endless stacks of money, choosing to develop a barebones unfriendly storefront with awful customer support and terrible, terrible security. They could easily have a better store than they do. But thanks for implying I'm wrong because I was young or something
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:20 AM
you don't need to be revolutionary to enter a market, that's called competition
and they're competing on features... some of those features just happen to be games
arc 02-Aug-19 12:21 AM
when steam came out it was not a store, just a piece of software that you had to install to play certain games
sa 02-Aug-19 12:21 AM
> competing on features Uhhh what features tho @perplamps having games isn't a feature, it's a baseline requirement of being a store (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:21 AM
i literally said in the second half of that sentence
LeoKira997 02-Aug-19 12:21 AM
gmaes are not features
repulsor101 02-Aug-19 12:21 AM
@Synxao but some healthy competition would be nice. They definitely have a huge part of the market.
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 12:21 AM
some of y'all are gonna be real mad when you find out about capitalism
radladlaugh 1
dayJoy 2
Pentore 02-Aug-19 12:22 AM
There are no features for consumers, only for devs.
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 12:22 AM
capitalism, is that when I hit the caps lock key and e-yell at people?
Parzi 02-Aug-19 12:22 AM
@Nagnu if I keep reading this I may end up doing just that lol (edited)
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 12:22 AM
@james, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@james said: @OddPotato you are quite right, I'd consider taking the deal myself were I ever to finally finish a dang game. But this whole "yeah sure you might be ** at Epic for legitimate reasons but have you tried not being so entitled?" thing is 100% on the devs. @Synxao DRM Free is my preferred method of distribution as well, but the thing is Steam's network effects cause it to be deeply entrenched in a way that people should be suspicious of. Before I met their apologists, I wanted EGS to win. Then again, I'm from 4chan, so
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:22 AM
features are things that lead you to want to use the product
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 12:22 AM
good god it doesnt matter if its brand new (it isnt, its more than half a year old already) its a storefront maintained by a billion dollar company, released in 2018. the matters of basic account security and customer interface has been modernized and understood for a long time by that point. its not an excuse yes. security breaches happen all the time due to bad actors, but that is no excuse to not bulk up and protect your userbase before, during, and after launch of a storefront that deals with peoples credit cards
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:22 AM
ok pals, I'm gonna take a break
Reldio 02-Aug-19 12:23 AM
Games aren't features but okay you do you perplamps. Honestly don't mind your sarcasm and I appreciate you've had vitriol thrown at you all day, just sharing my seven and a half cents on Epic. I know 5 people that tried EGS including myself and 4/5 had issues with their security
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:23 AM
I feel like we got ourselves worked up again
so let's maybe all take a breather
Voxic 02-Aug-19 12:23 AM
Epic curates their store. That is a pretty nice feature.
Vinuraba 02-Aug-19 12:23 AM
I'm all for Ooblets and co. getting that Epic money but I just wished they'd approach it differently than your standard dev and try to help better the gaming world rather than divide it
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:23 AM
feel free to email me your outstanding issues and I'll try to respond a bit later
spoingal 02-Aug-19 12:23 AM
i think theres no need to defend EG or its merits/flaws at this point because the decision is made, the chips will fall where they will. people will buy it or dont. not that criticisms of epic or the decision to partner with them arent legitimate, but its not gonna change anything
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:23 AM
(perplamps@gmail.com is me)
love ya all
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 12:23 AM
Be gourd everyone! ❤ We're gonna make some food and watch a tv show or something
❤ 16
ttyl
tamlin 3
wigglewip 7
grebun 6
deedles 02-Aug-19 12:23 AM
Bye have a good meal firmo
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 12:24 AM
have a nice day c:
deputy john glock 02-Aug-19 12:24 AM
Farewell my lady and lord! I will stand guard against the hordes.
repulsor101 02-Aug-19 12:24 AM
Are exclusives really anti-competition? Serious question.
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 12:25 AM
i dont get why perp is still allowed to talk at this point. he is infuriating with his attitude and demeanor and he just riles everyone up
Rodfigs 02-Aug-19 12:25 AM
Yes
Synxao 02-Aug-19 12:25 AM
@repulsor101 It's nice to have competition, however people aren't annoyed just at the fact that its new competition, except that it's epic and how they go about things. Epic's competition is aggressive and they buy new releases as much as possible to try and beat Valve which will NOT work, they would go bankrupt before they beat valve with this method. They NEED to stop that and give an INCENTIVE for the people to use their software, such as developing new features to prove they are better than Steam (Steam is incredibly future rich so they need to do this asap). Exclusives are anti-competition in my eyes because you are pushing your platform on people instead of giving them the incentive to use your platform via being feature rich and having better features than Steam either in the sense of quantity or quality, and if it's quantity then it has to be worthwhile features.
Pentore 02-Aug-19 12:25 AM
Devs boast about their fancy meal + new TV from using Epic money. 😛
Kozmosbound 02-Aug-19 12:25 AM
Y'all, the devs are calling it a night. Give a rest, they've answered enough questions today. If you have a question, search to see if it's already been answered. (edited)
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 12:25 AM
@GigaDan, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@GigaDan said: People wouldn't even give a dang about Epic going after exclusives if they didn't have a really terrible pattern of trying to ** up crowdfunded games that already succeeded, games months after they were announced, or games literally already out
deedles 02-Aug-19 12:25 AM
If the Switch was a crap console and mario odyssey was only on switch, Mario odyssey is a feature for the console
spoingal 02-Aug-19 12:25 AM
i do once again recommend doing the email
deputy john glock 02-Aug-19 12:26 AM
Do NOT speak ILL of my Lord Perplamps! One more word and I shall strike thee down.
ABCelestial 02-Aug-19 12:26 AM
It's his Discord, it's his game. You can leave, you know. No one's keeping you.
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 12:26 AM
instead of complaining about the epic game store here, consider: reading Das Kapital
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 12:27 AM
when it was just cat, everyone seemed to calm down and come to a consensus. i come back an hour later and see perp talking and everyone is mad again, read what he said, and i get mad too. like geez. how can someone exist like that
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 12:27 AM
oof, remind me not to become a game dev ... too much stress ... on TOP of actually making a game
Vinuraba 02-Aug-19 12:27 AM
Give me some GOG exclusive games, thats storefront I can rally behind
GigaDan 02-Aug-19 12:27 AM
Also the fact the EGS sucks and rather than spending any of the millions of dollars Epic is dumping in the furnace for these exclusives on improving their store and even trying to get it up to 'basic', they instead choose to have people like @perplamps whinge about how Steam was 10 years ago
arc 02-Aug-19 12:27 AM
tbh this all is what happens when youtube channels try to do consumer advocacy
repulsor101 02-Aug-19 12:28 AM
@Synxao but, like, trying to get people to use your platform is competing. Maybe you think it's anti-consumer, and there's an argument there, and I can see that they slack off on features and security, but buying games is technically competing
ABCelestial 02-Aug-19 12:28 AM
You know, I've been asking the exact same question today. Over. And over. And over. And over
Pentore 02-Aug-19 12:28 AM
Funny how all this is just because of how perplamps wrote that blog post and not the actual epic exclusivity. Bless his condesending writing.
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 12:28 AM
remember folks, "consumer" isn't an actual identity
Synxao 02-Aug-19 12:29 AM
@repulsor101 Sure, but they are forcing people to use their platform via exclusives which is anti-competition IMO, or at the very least dirty competing because you aren't actually putting in the money and time to improve your storefront and go into an arms race with Steam on a feature level. Doing this would improve their reputation as a whole and people would respect them more, leading to more sales and more usage.
james 02-Aug-19 12:29 AM
@repulsor101 I wonder what exactly you consider an anti-competitive practice then? e.g. "Just how high is that bar?" Do you think what e.g. Disney has been doing is fine? Or Viacom? What about the shenanigans Nintendo pulled in the 90s?
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 12:29 AM
!kick perplamps
GigaDan 02-Aug-19 12:29 AM
It doesn't matter if if X Store Front sucked when it launched, EGS isn't transmitting through a wormhole to 2005, they have to compete with things as they are now. By this argument Nintendo's terribad 10-years-back online is justified too
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 12:30 AM
Just a reminder to all the lovely folks here ... software (and games) take a looooot of time to make. Money doesn't makes things go faster. Here is a roadmap for the Epic Store with the incoming features. https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap
Organize anything, together. Trello is a collaboration tool that organizes your projects into boards. In one glance, know what's being worked on, who's working on what, and where something is in a process.
arc 02-Aug-19 12:30 AM
nonono, that's what you don't get. anticompetitive behavior is fine when it's done by a company we like (in case anyone is confused, this is sarcasm) (edited)
Reldio 02-Aug-19 12:30 AM
@AlphaVDP2 as a side note their roadmap has been lies at least twice now
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 12:30 AM
Tbf, Nintendo still hasn't figured out internet
Luthyr 02-Aug-19 12:31 AM
@Reldio welcome to software development 😆
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 12:31 AM
Guy guys guys... Just play Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night. It’s only on Steam, GoG and consoles.
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 12:31 AM
Ugh, don't get me started on Nintendon't understand internet
SIETSO 02-Aug-19 12:31 AM
Alan Wake & For Honor are free in a few hours on EGS 👍
james 02-Aug-19 12:32 AM
I'm a software developer myself haha I know the struggle is real and bankrolling your own speculative product takes a tremendous amount of dedication. I totally get that. And yet I still can't help but cringe when I hear someone call the customer "entitled". Of course they are entitled. That isn't their problem, that is your problem.
Pentore 02-Aug-19 12:32 AM
@LuckyBlue Bloodstained devs believed in their game
Reldio 02-Aug-19 12:32 AM
It really feels like people ignore that Epic are doing basically everything wrong they could possibly do wrong as a company except, arguably, give indie devs money that they may or may not have made on other storefronts But it's whatever I've come to realise people are EXTREMELY stubborn about this sort of thing and I don't think I've ever seen someone go "Huh I guess Epic do suck" or "Huh I guess Epic are fine"
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 12:33 AM
nintendo has good game design, but they're a bit too stuck in the past when it comes to the internet and seriously what @GigaDan said. why perp keeps trying to bring up how new EGS is and how steam was at the start is some infuriating deflection on the actual issues people have and is making excuses for a company that have the resources to have at least standard customer features and security
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 12:33 AM
upset about anticompetitive business practices? annoyed about companies trying to monopolize markets and generally control your life? consider socialism.
Synxao 02-Aug-19 12:33 AM
@arc Can you give me an example of anti-competitive behaviour by Steam?
arc 02-Aug-19 12:33 AM
i could, but i was actually talking about disney, apple, viacom, amazon, etc
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 12:34 AM
I don't understand why you think that how Epic runs their business is of any concern to perp or npc. Morals don't keep your rent paid,even if epic was the worst company in the world, which it isn't by far.
mirta000 02-Aug-19 12:34 AM
well 3000$ patreon doesn't keep your rent paid either?
james 02-Aug-19 12:34 AM
>If you think any company is a jerk, don't boycott that company or pressure others not to do business with them just violently overthrow the bourgoisie lmao.
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 12:35 AM
@Reldio interesting, what parts of that roadmap were lied about?
repulsor101 02-Aug-19 12:36 AM
@Synxao @james I guess it depends on what the competitive metric is. If features are the only metric, sure its anti-competition. Otherwise, it just seems like regular business. I, for one, enjoy the business model that gives me free games and rescues Indi developers every once in a while. (Not claiming that's the whole picture, just my thoughts on it)
arc 02-Aug-19 12:36 AM
i've said this a thousand times before and i imagine i'll say it a thousand times again: the thing about epic that sucks is that they drastically overwork their employees. nothing about EGS. just their normalization of crunch. if you want to be upset about epic, be upset about that. an actually important issue that affects actual human lives
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 12:37 AM
Maybe month to month @mirta000 . Maybe. But that's not financial security, and that's banking on money that could disappear over night.
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 12:37 AM
I'd add, also be upset at essentially every large game dev, crunch is serious and very real through out the industry and deserves our anger instead of this petty sports team loyalty fighting over store brands
Reldio 02-Aug-19 12:38 AM
arc people are upset about that and every other issue they have. It's in the master post of anti-epic stuff after all.
mirta000 02-Aug-19 12:38 AM
Welcome to any job, you can be fired with only a months pay left to spare. My family lives on a lot less. They had a money stream that only went up month to month. But decided to not care about that.
pokepixie 02-Aug-19 12:38 AM
Epic just released this 9 hours ago, showing targets that have been recently met https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap
Organize anything, together. Trello is a collaboration tool that organizes your projects into boards. In one glance, know what's being worked on, who's working on what, and where something is in a process.
james 02-Aug-19 12:38 AM
@arc the entire industry is like that. I'm blessed to have chosen web and not games, so I don't get it nearly as bad. But yeah. We shouldn't support companies that don't keep their workers happy. I mean, sure, at some point I don't question where mommy's medicine comes from because it's probably some horrific third world stuff, but when you have the opportunity to choose with your dollars, it does become important.
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 12:39 AM
If I offered you a few grand a month to pay all your bills with the catch that it could disappear at any time leaving you with no money or savings, would you jump at that chance? Or take a sum big enough to ensure you will be able to pay your bills reliably for a long time? If you understand the difficulty of living paycheck to paycheck, I don't know why you'd be upset at them seeking financial security.
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 12:39 AM
@arc like with the blog post, we can be upset about multiple things at once. :P their treatment of their workers sucks, but we were talking about the store. honestly the entire company is kinda scummy, despite the good work towards indies and devs they do, especially with the unreal engine but like james said, the entire industry is in on the same foul worker treatment and exploitation of workers and customers
Reldio 02-Aug-19 12:40 AM
Good for them doesn't mean they haven't gone back on it repeatedly, on top of the mountain of other issues people have with Epic. @pokepixie
Parzi 02-Aug-19 12:40 AM
one more note: Anticompetitive practices are not inherently anticonsumer. There may be instances where something is both, however buying exclusives is anticompetitive but not anticonsumer. Nothing is directly harming you by it only being available there, availability of the platform for your currency or OS aside. (Also I'm still not counting security flaws as anticonsumer so don't @ me) Epic may have it's host of issues which yes, please calmly discuss them, however, no, buying exclusives isn't inherently anticonsumer when you need to do something to be able to compete with the biggest player in the game. See Amazon's takeover of Diapers . com or I'm sure a host of other companies. They used anticompetitive practices to pummel them, but still never harmed the consumer, arguably.
pokepixie 02-Aug-19 12:40 AM
@Reldio just offering up to date info 😃
mirta000 02-Aug-19 12:40 AM
@TucanSam a grand a month is more than what I have. So it sounds to me like "hey, if I would employ you, would you take it?" and heck yeah, I would take being employed. Being employed by 1100 people sounds safer than by 1 actually.
Kozmosbound 02-Aug-19 12:40 AM
I think speculating about how much money the devs make and how worthy they are of making it is pretty disgusting.
👆 12
wil 02-Aug-19 12:40 AM
☝
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 12:42 AM
I'd take a steady paycheck I know won't disappear at the drop of a hat over flaky donations, but that's just me I guess? I like knowing my finances are secure and won't run dry because people get mad at me on the internet.
mirta000 02-Aug-19 12:42 AM
Well don't tell me that they were eating their shoelaces and were too poor to pay bills when they got a very successful patreon for 2 years. That's a lot better than most fledling busineses that require you to take out a loan for the first investment and then crossing fingers that your product succeeds. Having lived through several recessions, honestly a steady paycheck makes me laugh a little bit, as nobody is indespensible.
james 02-Aug-19 12:42 AM
I was employed by the devil once. I owe my entire career to it. We defrauded thousands of people. Lonely old men, mostly. And without that job experience, I wouldn't have the luxury required to sit around here and discuss the ethics of video games. I'm not saying that Epic is that level, but it's a mere question of degree. And it does haunt you, a little bit, as you get into that Lambo every morning to when you fall asleep in your egyptian linen canopy bed every night.
Reldio 02-Aug-19 12:43 AM
Anyway I'm gonna peace out I'm not invested enough to stick around on here all night to talk. Anyone that cares will have checked out the master post featuring over 30 links of why Epic are not something you should support and anyone that disagrees, to each their own. I'll get ooblets on steam maybe if it ever makes its way there. Have a good night y'all, sorry that the devs got so much flak for all this.
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 12:44 AM
the master post snickers
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 12:44 AM
You're also assuming the patreon paid them three grand, which you have no basis for. It could be much, much lower.
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 12:44 AM
im out too. i was all ready for bed until perp got me fired up again.
arc 02-Aug-19 12:44 AM
also that isn't really that much money for two people ...
james 02-Aug-19 12:45 AM
So in that context @TucanSam tbh I dislike this "why wouldn't you sell out?" question a lot more than I dislike the things that were said that caused this whole uproar to begin with. The devs might have erred, but you advocate for sin.
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 12:45 AM
@Reldio Hey! I just investigated those links you sent. I have a couple notes: - A lot of this is backend stuff, so you likely wouldnt see it. - "Seach by Genre and Tag" is actually in! Its not obvious, but type in a Genre or Tag into the search box and it brings up the results. If you read the task on trello, the description says "Improves existing search functionality by adding support for genres and tags." and that works - Cloud Saves might work on their end, but devs now have to enable it in their games, which is costly, time consuming, and needs to be planned from the outset. So if its not in now, it might come in a patch later for individual games.
mirta000 02-Aug-19 12:45 AM
Before they hit patreon numbers, there's a nice little website where you can check. Assuming pay per petreon is lower than their highest, they're still over 3 grand. Edit: I'm living off 1600$ for two people, 3000$ you can even save with (heck we save with 1600) edit edit: they live in Seattle, cheapest rent can go as little as 800$ for a small studio, they should be fine with 2 grand or below even. (edited)
pokepixie 02-Aug-19 12:45 AM
hm, but we dont know their cost of living?
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 12:46 AM
@Reldio, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Reldio said: holy **** stop talking about their finances that is so tacky
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 12:46 AM
some of y'all are so close to getting it and would make great comrades
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 12:46 AM
You also probably work a lot fewer hours and don't have to pay the same cost of living and also pay to run your business by hiring freelancers
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 12:46 AM
they moved to Seattle apparently, where the cost of living is ridiculous for some brilliant reason
Kozmosbound 02-Aug-19 12:46 AM
@rhymenoceros So close...and yet.
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 12:47 AM
@Reldio So, based on what I can see from the links you provided provided, I don't think they are lying about anything on their Trello board.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 12:47 AM
Lmao are you all seriously trying to argue that these indie developers are making bank gross
arc 02-Aug-19 12:47 AM
k this is too gross, have fun dissecting the financial lives of random strangers i guess
mirta000 02-Aug-19 12:47 AM
When I worked I worked 90-100 hours due to crunch for 9 months straight. Now I no longer work. That is 70 hours done by my husband a week, on his feet all day, walking. You mile average a day is 20-30 miles. The job is very damaging. Game dev from your bedroom, is not. @pokepixie why do you think I don't pay all that? (edited)
Kat 02-Aug-19 12:47 AM
why does what they make even matter?
james 02-Aug-19 12:47 AM
>gross this word is so annoying lmao just say "offensive" or "vulgar" or anything else lol
🙄 3
pokepixie 02-Aug-19 12:48 AM
It's really unfair to assume that just because you could live on that, that they could as well? There's rent, food, potential medical bills, insurance, the entire cost of running a studio (licenses, software, materials). Your life situation isn't the same as theirs, so it's very, very odd to make assumptions @mirta000
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 12:48 AM
hey maybe consider having some solidarity for your fellow workers just trying to be out here making a living doing something they love
✊ 3
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 12:49 AM
no! we must attack each other for the amusement of the rich!
Parzi 02-Aug-19 12:49 AM
It's not just odd but exceedingly disrespectful and uncalled for for this to have moved to a discussion based solely on their income and living situation. This is far off base from what this chat should be talking about, give it a rest.
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 12:49 AM
If I can't get rich doing what I love, nobody can!
mirta000 02-Aug-19 12:50 AM
Ya mean solidarity with people that were fine, but took a big fat bribe cause money bag? Money is money, but honestly? They were not running starvation mode. So don't prettend that they were in any sort of trouble.
james 02-Aug-19 12:50 AM
@arc @joecrook @wil nice passive-aggressive reacts really cool lmao holy crackers you people are what's "gross"
arc 02-Aug-19 12:51 AM
are you for real bud, i guess i have to use my 2 minute timer saying words to you about nothing for some reason ???
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 12:51 AM
dont fall into the Crab Mentality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality we all work (i think?) and it sucks. no need to pull each other down. it is fine however to question things and criticize, i feel. just keep it to a reasonable level
Crab mentality, also known as crabs in a bucket (also barrel, basket, or pot) mentality, is a way of thinking best described by the phrase "if I can't have it, neither can you". It is also described as a desire to outdo or surpass another - usually a member of the same commun...
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 12:51 AM
This sounds like a whole bunch of sour grapes
mirta000 02-Aug-19 12:52 AM
You can also be a drug baron and make millions, doesn't mean it's moral to do so. There's no moral high ground for taking a bribe from epic. There's just money. So let's stop prettending it's anything its not.
Kozmosbound 02-Aug-19 12:52 AM
Those crabs look delicious. I'd cook those up, serve 'em up with some warm butter.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 12:52 AM
@ABCelestial, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@ABCelestial said: **** ye
Parzi 02-Aug-19 12:52 AM
Some of y'all must be real fun at parties
james 02-Aug-19 12:52 AM
@arc I've been called gross since elementary school, I consider it a meaningless insult that, crucially, degrades the conversation to a level that is socially harmful. It may not be important to you, but it's important to me, and your attitude is somewhat entitled.
Kat 02-Aug-19 12:52 AM
i'd make them spicy with some seasonings and a nice butter sauce
🍴 1
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 12:53 AM
... but the crabs are supposed to be people in this analogy... DO NOT EAT THE CRABS
arc 02-Aug-19 12:53 AM
you came up with a synonym for it so apparently it's not meaningless, and apparently it got exactly the intended meaning across. idk what to say really
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 12:54 AM
Is tuna people too? Can I eat tuna instead? 🐱
wil 02-Aug-19 12:54 AM
imagine having a ben garrison avatar and calling anyone else ever "gross"
☝ 3
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 12:55 AM
i have found nothing on the Tuna Mentality, so yes you may consume the tuna
JungaBeast 02-Aug-19 12:55 AM
I’m not caught up with the chat at all but I just wanna say I’m glad the devs finally got the funding to finish up the game. I can’t wait to actually play it.
👆 3
james 02-Aug-19 12:56 AM
@wil imagine getting mad about an avatar
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 12:56 AM
@JungaBeast That's pretty much been the whole chat! Everyone sharing congratulations! (dont read anything)
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 12:57 AM
that and we're all crabs and eating tuna is totally fine
pokepixie 02-Aug-19 12:57 AM
yes~ so glad that they have funding and can work on it without being more stressed than they need to! Creative and technical work like game development is very, very hard work and fraught with so many obstacles, so I'm glad that funding will be one less thing they have to stress about! @JungaBeast
Astorica 02-Aug-19 12:57 AM
Unless EGS is funding them the rest of their lives, won't that EGS money run out eventually? I understand a lot of the toxicity being from "non fans of the game", but there's also a lot of people who are fans of the game that are upset, and it's not all just because of EGS, it's becoming about the developer responses now, for me personally and others from what I can see. Their fanbase is being hurt by this, as much as they might have needed the money I feel like keeping a long term fanbase would have been better in the long run I get they don't want to feel that they "owe" people games, but if they stick with game development long term I'm not sure this was the best decision
sa 02-Aug-19 12:57 AM
eating tuna isn't fine, they're severely overfished :/ even before the vegan arguments (edited)
JungaBeast 02-Aug-19 12:58 AM
Reading now, dang y’all salty. Take that energy and put it towards something besides an indie game. Global warming, high medical prices, police brutality, social abuse, take your pick. There’s way more important things to be angry about.
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ABCelestial 02-Aug-19 12:58 AM
Funny you should say that!
james 02-Aug-19 12:59 AM
@JungaBeast could we refrain from brining up contentious political issues here? this chat is supposed to be PG-rated.
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 12:59 AM
@JungaBeast well.... I think you just poured the gasoline 😃 (edited)
mirta000 02-Aug-19 12:59 AM
There's also way more important things to fund, considering that this is not a necessity.
arc 02-Aug-19 01:00 AM
weren't you talking about violently overthrowing the bourgeoisie earlier? (not that i think we should start talking about politics) (edited)
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 01:00 AM
i feel like junga is just taking the [NAUGHTY WORD] im out for good now. enjoy your tunas and good night
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 01:00 AM
instead of getting mad at people for getting paid, maybe you could get mad at your class enemies
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 01:00 AM
i think we're nose diving into an argument about the necessity of art in society
Parzi 02-Aug-19 01:01 AM
I think we nosedived a long time ago
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james 02-Aug-19 01:01 AM
art is way more important than police brutality or whatever dumb political stuff people want to complain about. art can cure police brutality but you can't brutalize your way into art.
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 01:02 AM
... i told the judge it was performance art
ABCelestial 02-Aug-19 01:02 AM
I use Snurfler everywhere across Discord, and have been for some time. Glad I finally have a good reason to use them in their home chat! snurfler
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DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 01:03 AM
smh the team could have used that money to save endangered ooblets instead :/
james 02-Aug-19 01:05 AM
anyways, epic bad, devs good but still made themselves look ridiculous today. that's ok, tomorrow is new, and I wish them the best. I'll probably be taking off for a little bit. Thanks to everyone who responded to debate with facts and logic and not with contempt, condescention and passive-aggressiveness. none of you are gross, I think!
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 01:25 AM
I've noticed a trend in almost every game that goes Epic exclusive, and it's kinda concerning, every time i see a game go exclusive, the developers then turn against their community, using similar language, like "entitled gamers" or "angry gamers", some even use the same "4chan and redditors" boogeyman, i don't know why more often than not, Epic exclusive devs become so antagonizing against people that wanted to support and buy their game, this isn't even the first time I've seen the "you were probably not even going to buy the game in the first place" argument. Isn't it weird to anyone else? or maybe I'm just seeing patterns where there's none? (BTW, for reference, the games I'm thinking about are Phoenix Point, Metro Exodus and BL3)
arc 02-Aug-19 01:26 AM
if you're a reasonable person and you just want to support the game and you're not being abusive, that language is not directed at you. however, there are people who are entitled and angry and abusive, and there are people from 4chan and reddit stoking that anger (edited)
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 01:28 AM
I'm not saying it is, I'll probably support the game regardless, although I'll just have to wait for the Steam release, I'm just mentioning that the language used and the stands of devs seem very similar, and even though i'm pretty sure that Redditors and 4Chan people do appear in those communities to start a fire, is weird to see the devs use the same statements
huh 02-Aug-19 01:28 AM
I’m surprised there’s actually a separate channel for this discussion
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 01:29 AM
No offense, I just learned of a cute looking game and all I got to see today was the worst PR post ever made. I do want to see what else comes out of this game tho. Hopefully it will get better
arc 02-Aug-19 01:29 AM
they're saying the same things because they're right
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sa 02-Aug-19 01:29 AM
how lucky
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 01:31 AM
Idk why you think the correct way to act in a discussion is being dismissive as heck but go off I guess
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 01:31 AM
Are they right though? Fending off trolls is cool and all, but taking a stance like the one perp took makes it seem more like they got the deal just to "troll some baby gamers" more than because they needed the money, Did they need the money? Probably, they moved into a new place recently, and also went independent, but I saw even genuine criticism just be piled under the "angry baby gamers" umbrella today, I can't even imagine the amount of hate that Perp and NPC got today, and I assume that's also a part of why they acted the way they did. Anyhow, I hope the money injection does a lot of good, so the product we end up supporting is as good as we've always hoped it will be.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 01:32 AM
It's so wild to me how many people keep going "wow look at these coincidences, everyone hating on gamers and 4chan, I wonder why??" Maybe it's because it's a common experience among developers who make a decision a lot of those kinds of people get super enraged about? Maybe it's because they have to spend all day in their discord server offering responses to why they made the decisions they did, only to be told "ha ha I'm gonna pirate your game now"?
DoobieTheHouseElf 02-Aug-19 01:33 AM
Did you know that if you buy Ooblets, nothing bad will happen? shrumboshades
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sa 02-Aug-19 01:33 AM
> it's anecdotal posts anecdote (edited)
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 01:33 AM
The opposite is also true.
Bartleby 02-Aug-19 01:33 AM
Call me crazy, but maybe providing criticism when the devs are being actively attacked for joining EGS isn't the best time, as their mood is already skewed by dealing with the backlash.
butterfly 02-Aug-19 01:34 AM
@Deadly Penguin it's mostly the incredibly toxic reaction from many gamers aimed at developers that have made such decision. it really is about entitlement, and this comes from the same subculture that had spread crap about "SJWs" and how having women in video games destroys western civilization
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DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 01:34 AM
They spent hours trying to respond fairly, and they were hounded by dozens of people making the same low-effort accusations. They're entitled to some frustration. Making games is expensive and people really don't get that.
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 01:35 AM
[i see someone getting beat up on a street corner] hey man the shoes you're wearing are ugly and by the way i don't like some of your opinions, hope this isn't a bad time for this
DoobieTheHouseElf 02-Aug-19 01:35 AM
@rhymenoceros Wtf are you on about...
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 01:37 AM
I mean what did they expect when they made a PR disaster of a post, dismissing any type of critism at all and acting like they're on a high horse that makes the Trojan Horse look small. It doesn't inspire much for me
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 01:37 AM
The irony that people were upset about EGS as opposed to Steam, owned by Valve, everyone's fave Totally Transparent Corporation, is seriously wild. They didn't even dismiss criticism, they addressed it for h o u r s (edited)
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 01:37 AM
@butterfly, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@butterfly said: read this: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/GamerGate one of the very prominent groups that goes on to harass the developers that go on epic store are the remnants of this movement coming from the cesspools like /r/KotakuinAction, which has done a lot of damage as it is, like, spreading racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, and essentially making many gamers alt-right. this is pretty much a manifestation of their ** little "culture".
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 01:39 AM
Really, you're gonna bring up GG into this
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 01:39 AM
Well, I think that posting a blog saying "people are going to get mad", and then being surprised about people getting mad, and insulting them for doing so, it's not the best way to treat your supporters, also, saying that people that have issues with Epic "were never going to buy/enjoy ooblets in the first place" is not the best way to treat your customers, they treated this as if every piece of criticism came from a bad place, when that was not the case, sure, people spamming "What about China, Taiwan, Tencent, Muh data" are extremely unhelpful to the situation/argument, and also make people even angrier, but dismissing people's genuine concerns just because of that just makes you seem like a jerk more than anything, a lot of people here seemed to forget that Ooblets is a big community with a lot of people, and trying to alienate a part of them was never going to be a good idea, even now, I can see that dismissing arguments because "oh but the others aren't good either" is the best tactic for argumentation. If someone kicked you in the stomach, but then someone else kicked you in the face, are you going to be like "I guess the kick on the face wasn't that bad because someone else kicked me in the stomach"?. 95% of this could've been avoided if the post we got on the newsletter was also used for the blogpost, since the one in the newsletter just explained the situation, without trying to make people feel like idiots for not wanting to support a specific company.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 01:41 AM
He said people wouldn't enjoy ooblets in response to the fact that the humor in the post was near-identical to the humor in the game. Don't act like it was ever any different. Don't wanna feel like an idiot? Don't act like one and throw a fit that you have to download a new free launcher.
arc 02-Aug-19 01:41 AM
the way the post was written is just a justification for most of these people to come in here and complain. i really don't think 95% of the drama could have been avoided with better communication. most of it is from people who just want to be angry about things. they would have found something else to be angry about
Bartleby 02-Aug-19 01:41 AM
You're assuming they're surprised. They probably knew what was coming. Doesn't mean it's any easier to deal with
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 01:43 AM
I mean there would be less angry about it, lol. Also, there's a time and a place to drop a bit and boy did they miss it for that post
arc 02-Aug-19 01:43 AM
i thought it was fine, but i know it wasn't directed at me, and i know that they're right about basically everything they wrote
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Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 01:44 AM
Thanks for piling my arguments under the same umbrella, despite the fact that i'm trying to be as civil as possible, sure, the humour was similar and all, but is that really a justification?, they could've gone with their signature humour without trying to diminish the issue, under the same logic, why should anyone buy their game? we could donate that money to charities. After the dust settles, people are not gonna care about the epic exclusivity anymore, because most of the time, that fire dies down after like a day or two, but what is going to stay in a lot of people's minds is how the developers treated them, and how some members of the community echoed those statements.
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 01:44 AM
consumer is not an identity and if anything the blog post was too tame judging by the responses here and elsewhere
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SIETSO 02-Aug-19 01:44 AM
Y'all still going? ⌚
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DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 01:45 AM
They diminished the issue because it's a non-issue. People made it an issue and harassed them on a massive scale over it.
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butterfly 02-Aug-19 01:46 AM
as much as EGS might be bad in some ways (some criticism of it is totally valid, like, say, what Jim Sterling said about it, the poor working conditions, etc, etc.) it's not rational to duke it out on developers who need to get by in the game industry that screws them over constantly. it's better to hate on, well, capitalism, you know. @Tman2bard yes. gamergate is the primary influence to the toxicity in the gaming community these days that made all the ghouls of the internet appear out there. also, again, look at /r/KiA and look at all the same stuff being upvotes to thousands there. their comments are absolutely the same, threatening developers to not pay them, agitate for pirating their games, etc. Toxicity in its purest form, right at the source.
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 01:46 AM
Get out of here with that crap. Everytime someone brings up gamergate the more I did inside. People keep finding ways to bring it back up and push it into every issue imaginable (edited)
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 01:48 AM
I agree with the fact (because it is a fact) that the issue was blown WAAAAAAAY out of proportion, people tend to treat epic exclusivity the same way as someone shooting their mom, but at the same time, Ooblets was marketed through Steam, they asked for our support on Steam, a lot of people have followed the development through Steam, of course something like this is going to get people mad, thinking that it wouldn't is just being extremely oblivious to everything. The thing is, does that give any of the sides involved the right to insult the other? By any way you look at it, the answer is no, neither the consumers should insult the devs, nor the devs insult the intelligence of their own consumers.
butterfly 02-Aug-19 01:48 AM
no, I won't. I will proceed with that crap because ultimately I am telling the truth. the Venn diagram of gators and those threatening devs for putting games exclusively on Epic overlaps a lot.
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Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 01:49 AM
Respect is a 2 way street, if you're gonna call their critism invalid and unbrella them all together then the same can be done right back at ya
Cecil 02-Aug-19 01:50 AM
It's still quite funny to see both devs and supporters trying to find the easiest way to dismiss any and all criticism, and absolve the devs of any responsibility for fueling the flames, in an already infected debate that surrounds the EGS. It's either you're a child (I'm not), you're not a dev (I am), you're not having a job (I have), you don't pay bills (I do), you never had an interest in the game (I had), or even you're a a gamergator (absolutely not). (edited)
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 01:51 AM
Why would people get mad that they have to download a different free launcher instead of the other free launcher they use? Because of a bunch of points that are either unsubstantiated or apply equally to both Valve and Epic Games? 🤔 (edited)
butterfly 02-Aug-19 01:51 AM
speaking of epic criticism, I find this one very good and valid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USrdUXH3iqg
sa 02-Aug-19 01:51 AM
FrEe LaUnChEr
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 01:51 AM
I have no issue using EGS, I have an issue of a game being advertised on Steam then pulling the plug and going EGS for a year. Makes me think you had no faith in the game at all tbqh (edited)
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 01:52 AM
But, is Valve having issues something that instantly negates any and all issues Epic has? is that a get out of jail free card? if you want to criticize Valve, then do so, but don't dismiss Epic's issues just because Valve also has them, if it's bad for one of them to do something, it should be bad for everyone. (edited)
Cecil 02-Aug-19 01:53 AM
re@DorkOrca I already use the EGS (2 free game, one backed game, one purchased game), and I see the EGS as the absolutely worst experience of all the launches I have used. The thing would have been much easier to handle, if the devs had researched the ways you can publish your game with it, DRM free or requiring the launcher all the time, and said their plans about it. But the devs themselves admitted to knowing about it.,
Abiscuits 02-Aug-19 01:54 AM
Whats wrong with using steam for advertising? Last I checked it wasn't gamers' job to be the Steam police
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 01:55 AM
You don't have an issue with EGS, but you have an issue with suddenly having to use EGS? Uh, their decision was entirely justified by the high cost of game development. It's that simple. If people have issues with EGS that also apply to Valve they don't really have any ground to stand on while complaining they have to use EGS. Like literally none. One's younger and has a few less features. Like ok. You're playing Ooblets, not the EGS. (edited)
butterfly 02-Aug-19 01:55 AM
fReE LaUnChEr it sounds like poor trolling, stop. even a child understands that there's more to it than just a launcher. every platform is basically an ecosystem, just like PlayStation, just like Xbox. while you don't have to buy a console, you still have to enter it, and that is not only a launcher, not only more disk space. steam has many things tightly integrated into it that aren't available on other """"""launchers""""""
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 01:55 AM
Yet again, twisting my words
zablorg 02-Aug-19 01:56 AM
I imagine they researched alternate ways to publish and found guaranteed money a fascinating feature.
Cecil 02-Aug-19 01:56 AM
@DorkOrca I have a lot of issues with EGS, but distributing a game completely DRM free on it, takes away a lot of them. Honestly, how many people here supporting this decision have any experience themselves using the EGS clients, and know the difference between it and the other more popular ones?
Hyo 02-Aug-19 01:58 AM
My problem with EGS is that it doesn't support local currency (for me), as such, it is cheaper for me to get those games elsewhere, be it a console or another store. (edited)
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 01:58 AM
There's a lot of ways to get money for game development, EGS is not the one and only savior of poor indie devs, they could've secured a deal with other companies, like Devolver, or they could've done a lot of other stuff in order to get money, but treating EGS like the one and only answer to all of their issues, and then dismissing the arguments of anyone that doesn't want to treat it that way, just makes you seem like a one person echochamber, and repeating the same argument over and over doesn't make you more right btw.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 01:58 AM
Ooblets will be available for consoles (Xbox One as originally planned), this was noted in the announcement. @Hyo
Hyo 02-Aug-19 02:00 AM
I only own a Switch at the moment, hopefully, it'll eventually get ported there. If I'm lucky @DorkOrca tamlin
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 02:00 AM
Call me when it comes to switch. At least there I can buy those little prepaid cards instead of using a credit card (edited)
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:00 AM
@Hyo it does support local currency, it just doesn't support your local currency. it takes time to do that, steam took 4-6 years to implement mine after announcing it.
zablorg 02-Aug-19 02:00 AM
Who is to say they didn't look into Devolver?
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:00 AM
Ooblets on Switch would be rad. Porting is expensive tho. Wonder how they'd get money to pay for something like that... 🤔
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 02:00 AM
Anyhow, i hope the whole issue gets forgotten soon so that people stop trying to start the fire all over again, I hope the development goes on without a hitch, and this doesn't spell doom and gloom for everything, and also i hope everyone has a nice day/night/whatever time it is for you. Buh bye.
Bartleby 02-Aug-19 02:00 AM
There's a difference between having a publisher like Devolver and being a store exclusive. It's likely that they weighed those types of considerations as well.
arc 02-Aug-19 02:00 AM
@Cecil I bought Hades immediately after it launched, and I played the free subnautica. I have no issues with it and don't need any of the features that are 'missing' except 2fa. I'd be fine with just launching the game from a desktop shortcut (edited)
Cecil 02-Aug-19 02:03 AM
@arc Good for you, but that doesn't invalidate the issues other people have with it.
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:04 AM
as a steam user, I hate that EGS takes away big picture and controller configuration options. I also hate that there is no Linux support and it won't allow just launching the game for me out of the box. some of this does lie on steam making their tooling essentially exclusive to steam, though. and I am an Epic user anyway, having bought six games and collected around thirty or so more
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 02:05 AM
Is it me or does having a yellow name mean you're so devoted to this game that you're ok with invalidating anyone who doesn't fully see eye to eye with you. Then again, that's the umbrella falicy so eh (edited)
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:06 AM
It means you're not okay with people mass-joining a discord server to treat the devs like monsters for making decisions they have every right to follow through on, maybe?
arc 02-Aug-19 02:06 AM
@Cecil you literally asked if anyone defending it has had experience with it...........
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Bartleby 02-Aug-19 02:06 AM
@Tman2bard stoking those coals eh?
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:06 AM
have to agree with DorkOrca on that one, to be quite honest.
Cecil 02-Aug-19 02:07 AM
@arc True that. I read that as a response to something else. My bad. @butterfly Big Picture mode is very useful for me as well. It's the most easy way to get games to display on the prefered display, if you have a multi monitor setup. If a game doesn't require the EGS launcher, it's easy to run the game through it. If it requires the launcher, like Subnautica, it becomes a hassle.
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 02:08 AM
You keep going with it like it's everyone. If you treat all these as clear cut, you're just going to shoot yourself in the foot in the long run
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:09 AM
it's not everyone, it's just most people, sadly. I was like that too when I was a genuine unironic gamergate supporter. this experience hits close to home for me. (edited)
sa 02-Aug-19 02:09 AM
it might not be everyone but it's not no-one...
hmaon 02-Aug-19 02:11 AM
wateringcan
Raekai 02-Aug-19 02:11 AM
I have a yellow name and I'm definitely not happy with the situation or its handling, so...
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Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 02:11 AM
I'm sorry I lumped you in then
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:12 AM
It's just wild that people feel so massively entitled to the developers' time and energy. Like, how divorced from reality do you have to be to act like that?
CyberneticSquid 02-Aug-19 02:15 AM
I'm not exactly a Steam power-user, but I've never been playing a game through EGS and thought "God, I wish this was using Steam".
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:16 AM
many developers are pretty mad at steam for sure. I don't like steam too, esp for the announcement of their "hands-off" approach, algorithm culling to favor major games and drive organic traffic away from indies, and lowering the cut only to those who sell big. one who looks at trends knows that support for Steam from the developer side has plunged dramatically in just a year (from 2017 to 2018)
TheJim 02-Aug-19 02:16 AM
One upside to the toxic hate is that I hadn't heard about the game until now. It looks fun - looking forward to purchasing it!
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:16 AM
Yess shrumboyay all press is good press B) (edited)
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 02:16 AM
Is the game on sale in Australia?
d1.psy 02-Aug-19 02:17 AM
Sing along to the Songs of Lazy Town! Subscribe to the Lazy Town YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuLcjVa3vCeHFyUeTKtBlA?sub_confirmation=1...
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:18 AM
it's been showcased on PC Gaming Show one or two times @d1.psy 🔨 🔨 🔨
Cecil 02-Aug-19 02:18 AM
@butterfly At least Steam has a foundation that's worth using. The EGS client has nothing now, isn't really as new people make it out to be, and they're nowhere near accomplishing their public roadmap for features. GOG Galaxy would have been a nice alternative to launch the game on, but alas, something got in the way.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:18 AM
Who cares? It's literally just a launcher.
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 02:18 AM
No, no pirating. Have some class
Rinzler 02-Aug-19 02:19 AM
I'm guessing the devs don't read this since it's an extra channel just for Epic Games banter, but I just want to say that I am not buying this game because of the exclusivity. EGS is incredibly anti-consumer and while some devs feel entitled for a successful game, unfortunately with this trend the consumers are thought of last. Make a good game, people will buy it. It's as simple as that.
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d1.psy 02-Aug-19 02:19 AM
I'm not pirating. I'll get a free copy that epic payed for
Cecil 02-Aug-19 02:20 AM
@DorkOrca "It's literally just a launcher.", Was that directed to my post?
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 02:20 AM
I'm just worried about the security of using the epic store and its collection of personal data via Tencent, which also happens to be a monopoly of many industries
zablorg 02-Aug-19 02:21 AM
"make a good game, people will buy it" seems like people are upset very independent of the game's contents lmao
monomayu 02-Aug-19 02:21 AM
It's so funny how everyone here thinks the devs owe you something
Rinzler 02-Aug-19 02:21 AM
They don't, but it works both ways
d1.psy 02-Aug-19 02:21 AM
It's funny when shills act like someone we gave our money to, don't owe us anything
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:21 AM
If you're worried about information security and personal info, I have some bad news about Twitter, Google... most "free" services, in fact? (edited)
Raekai 02-Aug-19 02:22 AM
It's so funny that I've spent a chunk of change on supporting their Patreon and buying their merchandise. So, yes, I would like Ooblets to launch on a platform that I support since I have supported Ooblets. Pretty fair.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 02:22 AM
The devs should at least recognize the anti consumer nature of the epic store. It might not be owed to the people that supported the developers, but it should be done out of respect to the general community
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:23 AM
couple short bits @DorkOrca no it's not. we told you why we use steam over other stuff already. @Rinzler all of the games features at EGS seem good so far. @Tman2bard there are ethical reasons for pirating but def not harassing the devs who chose a different store. @d1.psy begone troll @PassTheNachos it's very much secure nowadays. the controversy around "spyware" was very mute. google "facepunch epic games spyware" and see one of the responses to post from now-deleted facepunch forum
hmaon 02-Aug-19 02:23 AM
monomayu 02-Aug-19 02:23 AM
@d1.psy Ah, how much have you given them?
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:23 AM
When you contributed to their Patreon you didn't pay for a market share in Ooblets. You aren't on the Ooblets staff board. You paid for your rewards for the months you paid for, period. Nothing more. @Raekai
Raekai 02-Aug-19 02:24 AM
Mhm. And I'm aware of that. Which is why I'm not raging. I'm politely supporting the middle ground that there are valid reasons to feel bummed and even just the tiniest bit entitled.
CyberneticSquid 02-Aug-19 02:25 AM
The one good thing about all this discussion is that I found this beautiful game because of it.
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:25 AM
@PassTheNachos read this. the software does not spy on you, just collects telemetry every other software does. https://nickcano.com/epic-games-spyware/
Over the past few weeks, I've seen a lot of discussion about whether or not the Epic Games' store is spyware. Unfortunately, the "proof" and "research" that has been shared is far from either of those things, and can only be described as an amateurish perspective.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 02:25 AM
How dare they release Shenmooblets on egs after getting 3 million dollars from backers (edited)
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Rinzler 02-Aug-19 02:25 AM
I actually feel bad for future devs looking to use crowdfunding. Epic has single handedly ruined the confidence of many backers that wont back now since devs have already set the precedent that it's ok to say one thing about steam, then back out at the last second to go Epic exclusive. Tim said he wouldn't do it after the first time, then kept doing it. This whole thing is just a racket to try and damage steam. The devs that are playing into this are purely doing it for the cash payout upfront. That's it.
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monomayu 02-Aug-19 02:26 AM
To be fair, I'm also not glad to have to buy it on EGS, but I don't blame the devs for taking that money
☝ 5
zablorg 02-Aug-19 02:26 AM
I don't think any devs have denied that the money was the incentive?
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:27 AM
They literally said they did it so they could have more money and ease the financial burden of development, resulting in a more polished, less rushed product.
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:27 AM
Shenmue is one game, mind you. It's not the only game getting Epic funding, at least there is a lot of legitimate indie stuff that's good. Hades and Outer Wilds are great btw, play them @PassTheNachos
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 02:28 AM
But we're still in agreement that Shenmue was anti-consumer of Epic? So I'm still against EGS sorry
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 02:29 AM
My issue with EGS is I don't like using credit cards on these things. I always preferred buying those prepaid cards and getting what I wanted that way. When Epic starts doing that, I'll be stoked
Raekai 02-Aug-19 02:29 AM
For those who haven't seen it: my famous post. Lol. "I think it can be summed up as this: (1) Some people don't like EGS, Epic, Tencent, etc. Probably for some good reasons, but I won't get into that. (2) Some people feel like there has been a minor bait and switch because the devs have led them to believe that Ooblets would launch on steam. (3a) Some people felt like the humor in the blog post was in bad taste. (3b) Some people feel like the responses from the devs have had a poor tone. Now, in each of these ideas, there is legitimate concern, surely. The legitimate concern is being drowned out by the trolls, which is unfortunate because the legitimate concern is likely coming from long-time fans who have also supported the game through Patreon and/or buying merchandise (like myself) and feel like they already have money or stake in this. (I get it. I don't support/like/trust Epic, but I do support/like/trust Ooblets. Even then, I don't want to download another launcher—I don't want to use EGS for games when I have Steam like I don't want to use Facebook for communication when I have Gmail.) Ultimately, the devs aren't going to undo this deal with Epic. Why would they? It's great for them! (And that makes me happy.) It's just inconvenient for me and for some others. (And that makes me bummed.) According to the devs, the game will eventually be coming to Steam. The exclusivity ends after an undisclosed milestone. That's it. Are the devs jerks? Is Epic bad? Are gamers bad? How many of these people are trolls? I don't have strong answers for those. Please let me know if I missed anything."
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:29 AM
Shenmue is a cash sink in itself, and more questions come from Ys Net that makes them, having so many funding rounds yet still taking money from epic and not refunding anything on their own @PassTheNachos see these two vids from Jimmy boy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7jsOx-e73Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWzfk9N6OD8 (edited)
Shenmue 3 has taken the Dark Bargain, and will be an Epic Games Store exclusive on PC. This, understandably, has not gone over well with backers. As yet anot...
YS Net gets itself another financial helping hand as Epic Games pledges to refund any Kickstarter backers who felt duped by the game's Epic Store exclusivity...
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 02:30 AM
I'm just scared of letting Epic actually see those three wacky numbers on the back of my credit card
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 02:30 AM
For one thing, WeChat’s privacy policy notes that the app may need to “retain, disclose and use” user information at government requests.
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 02:31 AM
Epic sets up bad precedents. Now Epic will do refunds if it needs to for others if they got screwed by the switch. In the end, there's no issues for the devs, but there's major issues for the consumers
JungaBeast 02-Aug-19 02:31 AM
That’s a good post @Raekai and what I talked about in my own Discord.
❤ 2
hmaon 02-Aug-19 02:31 AM
dang, I forgot about Shenmue. Is that out?
Rinzler 02-Aug-19 02:32 AM
Great for the devs? Ok, throw everyone under the bus just so you can have your pay day. Devs are still going to push out the same exact game except now they have more money in their pockets. This delusion that this money is going straight to development is just absurd. All these deals seem to be made close enough to launch that not much is going to change in development. Devs use the excuse that Epic is helping them just to hide the fact that they get a fat check while Epic just tries to ruin the experience of people playing the games by taking them off other preferred stores. If devs really cared about its customers they'd launch on every store so people had a choice.
👎 5
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:32 AM
@M.Zakky good. now be concerned about Ubisoft, actiblizz, riot games, supercell, and many other big companies tencent has stake in. not even the controlling one, the one that epic does not have
Fawful 02-Aug-19 02:33 AM
Also Nintendo
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:33 AM
lmao imagine thinking indie devs are making bank across the board
😢 2
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 02:33 AM
He's not wrong about the last part imo. The rest of the post, not so mucb. Anyway, more stores, more options, what's there not to like (edited)
JessLynnStudio 02-Aug-19 02:34 AM
@PassTheNachos Hi! Sorry, I haven't been following the conversation much but I saw your last comment. I had the same concern and Reddit suggested I use a privacy.com virtual credit card (that will be good for only a single use). Otherwise I figured I could get a gift card from Amazon or some tertiary site to buy Ooblets off of Epic. And my Epic account would obviously use a username and password that I don't use for anything else. Security concerns are valid and there are solutions. I'm going to bed now but good night! I hope this helps.
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:34 AM
@Rinzler it's pointless to launch the game on every store bc most sales will be from steam, and steam doesn't bring a lot of sales for indies these days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUHl9ZThXU0
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 02:34 AM
@butterfly "Epic Will Refund Shenmue 3 Backers Who Reject Epic Store Exclusivity" actually they still have yet to refund a single customer
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 02:34 AM
yeah i gotta start boycotting valve for not putting their games on other storefronts now, more stores more options, they should've known better when they made that decision
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:35 AM
privacy.com is seriously lit, if you have spending issues like me you should use it
Raekai 02-Aug-19 02:36 AM
Y'all. I really need to go to bed and leave this chat. But no one has given me a goodnight kiss or read me a bedtime story, so...
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:36 AM
@M.Zakky maybe you have to watch the video, not read the title and make the whole conclusion. Jim Sterling is known to hate Shenmue series and see Shenmue 3 as sketchy.
JungaBeast 02-Aug-19 02:36 AM
Goodnight. 😘
💋 2
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 02:37 AM
Why did they take funding from Epic if the game was already finished?
zablorg 02-Aug-19 02:37 AM
Security
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 02:37 AM
I mean Shenmue as a series is sketchy tbqh. Idk how the heck it raised that much but people apparently cared. Now if only that went to Bloodstained
Rinzler 02-Aug-19 02:37 AM
@butterfly Ok but it's not stopping people from buying on Epic? If Epic promotes these games so well than devs should love to put them on all stores. The MW5 devs said they went EGS because it would stay on the front page more on Epic. Like why do we need exclusivity to do that? Why can't we have the option of buying on steam and getting the attention from EGS? Oh that's right, Tim Sweeney just wants to ruin PC gaming and he's dragging devs into this dumpster fire with him.
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 02:38 AM
@butterfly I don't really care about Sterling, I'm talking about the exact thing said in quotes, Epic did promise to refund backers a while ago and they have done nothing ever since
Symion 02-Aug-19 02:39 AM
Just want to join my voice to all of those disappointed in the dev's decision to take the EGS deal. I could go into the arguments of telling your audience one thing and doing another or the problems with taking Tencent's money but I assume that those arguments have been expressed several times. Unfortunate to no longer want to support a new game I was looking forward to.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 02:39 AM
So the devs took patreon money thinking their game was so much of a lost cause that they would need money from Epic or else game sales wouldn't make them any money? 🤢
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:40 AM
Bloodstained is great tbh. @Rinzler Exclusivity is Epic's only way to make competition to Steam, otherwise it's gonna be doomed to irrelevancy just like any other game store. Steam went miles ahead already, and their de-facto monopoly means that there is no ethical way of trying to compete with them
hmaon 02-Aug-19 02:41 AM
@PassTheNachos Huh? There's never a guarantee that game sales will make any money.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 02:41 AM
So the devs think their game isn't any good?
zablorg 02-Aug-19 02:42 AM
Plenty of good games are doomed to obscurity for no reason at all
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:42 AM
Not all good games make money lmao
MeTheGreat 02-Aug-19 02:42 AM
Stop The Epic Bad That is all
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:42 AM
if all good games make money, what is the concept of hidden (underrated) gems then? (edited)
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 02:43 AM
there's a bunch of games I love to death that failed spectacularly financially
☹ 1
nerdinclass 02-Aug-19 02:43 AM
I mean epic doesnt have a good history so people have a right to be concerned
Rinzler 02-Aug-19 02:43 AM
@butterfly what a terrible argument. There are plenty of ways to compete with steam. Make a better store. Figure out what steam doesn't do well and do it better. Tim is just too lazy and incompetent to actually do that so they just use their fortnite cash to force people to use their store. Quit acting like exclusives are the only way to do it because its just wrong.
JungaBeast 02-Aug-19 02:43 AM
Pee pee poo poo.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:44 AM
"Competition is easy, just do better than everyone else!"
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 02:45 AM
people having concerns is fair, but what a lot of (not everyone) have been posting today in this channel isn't just concerns but yelling and screaming over an inconvenience to them. valve ain't got a spotless record with steam either, and there's things that i prefer about the EGS over steam even
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 02:45 AM
Vote with your wallet everyone
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 02:45 AM
the way epic exclusivity contract works, epic literally buys agreed amount of copies from the developers and those copies count as already sold for developers to report https://www.pcgamer.com/satisfactory-sold-over-500000-copies-on-the-epic-store-says-developer/ the downside is that epic gets 100% from sales until that amount is reached, which is why it's called "guaranteed sales"
After weeks of joking about low sales, Coffee Stain's community manager is setting the record straight.
Astorica 02-Aug-19 02:45 AM
What about when the EGS money runs out?
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 02:45 AM
@youkatei, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@youkatei said: @PassTheNachos Game sales will make them money. However over the years, a lot of good indie games are lost on Steam due to all the random games comes out in a day, and how Steam promotes small games (almost non-existence). Epic’s deal provides some kind of security to their financial situation. And in a way, this whole Epic situation provides exposure to people that do not know Ooblets before. And if they don’t care about EGS and finds Ooblets interesting, it is a new potential customers. ** for people who hates EGS, but good move for devs.
nerdinclass 02-Aug-19 02:46 AM
Yeah I understand that but steam never data mined unless i missed that
Rinzler 02-Aug-19 02:46 AM
Exactly, they spend all this money on exclusives rather than actually making a good store. The EGS will be irrelevant in years just as it is now.
butterfly 02-Aug-19 02:46 AM
@Rinzler as Jim Sterling said, if it was that simple, GOG would be the the most popular game store on the market. Itch is a haven for indie devs that does everything to make publishing games on it a charm, a great option that gives devs a whatever cut as well. Problem is, it's not that simple. btw, https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap (edited)
Organize anything, together. Trello is a collaboration tool that organizes your projects into boards. In one glance, know what's being worked on, who's working on what, and where something is in a process.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:46 AM
Guaranteed sales doesn't really have much of a downside, considering those copies are guaranteed sold? Worst case scenario is they sell exactly the amount of copies through EG that were guaranteed.
Rinzler 02-Aug-19 02:48 AM
Development is so slow for the EGS lol. They have cloud saves marked as released and there are literally 2 games on the store you can actually use it with lol. Epic is a joke, Ooblets is now a joke.
😴 2
zablorg 02-Aug-19 02:49 AM
@M.Zakky wait so are the 500,000 Satisfactory sales not end-user sales?
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 02:49 AM
@nerdinclass i'm not totally up to date on the datamining schtick with the EGS (and i'm honestly not looking for an update on that), but yeah, that's something that i don't think valve has been accused of, there have been security issues though, i remember the christmas people got access to credit cards of other accounts and other info, and how messy steam is as a store. there's a legitimate reason to prefer the EGS due to how it's currently at least much more curated. no asset flips and all that cluttering up the store page
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 02:50 AM
@zablorg it's the amount of copies Epic bought from them so yeah
Astorica 02-Aug-19 02:50 AM
They said they aren't allowed to release it on other platforms until they reach that sales goal though Which could be years from now since the devs don't seem to have much faith in the game if they were worried about sales and took the EGS deal instead, right? Which means a smaller market to reach games and less sales overall It just seems like it's a short term good thing, but in the long term they could have made more with it not being exclusive
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:51 AM
nah, those are actual sales, not all games purchased by EG
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 02:51 AM
Because obviously, building up servers and coding a programm that'll copy data from games is a simple thing to do and dev should just press the big button "MAKE CLOUD SAVES" in their whatever launcher maker they're using because it def exists
🇪 2
🇿 2
zablorg 02-Aug-19 02:52 AM
Cannot stress enough that releasing even the best game conceivable carries extraordinary risk Yeah I'm not getting solid leads on the nature of the Satisfactory figure. It's all the same money of course but has different implications for player base obvs
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 02:52 AM
@Astorica i don't think it's fair to say they don't have faith in the game, i'm sure they do, but this is their job, their livelihood at stake and ability to live, epic providing that financial security isn't to be underestimated, and i'm happy they can now continue to develop without that particular stress
Astorica 02-Aug-19 02:53 AM
But that financial security from Epic is NOT permanent, the support of fans waiting for their future games would be
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:53 AM
Why would the devs be hyped that EG bought 500k copies lol The number in the article isn't even like... even, that'd be pretty weird to purchase just that amount
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 02:53 AM
😳 the developers don't get the 3 million dollars from epic if they don't sell 500,000 copies on epic 😳
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 02:53 AM
@Honeyxilia https://twitter.com/steam_spy/status/1069970381715501056 Actually, the director of Epic Games Store claims that they have been working on it for at least several years
Epic Games just announced a store with 88/12 split (no tiers), access to the audience, and Support-A-Creator program. I've been working on this project at my day job for the past several years. https://t.co/eG1KdWGpK4
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zablorg 02-Aug-19 02:54 AM
They'd be hyped that Epic bought that much just bc it's... money, I guess? It's good news
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:55 AM
Launch sales are explicitly mentioned within the article, guaranteed sales are not the same as launch sales
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 02:55 AM
@Astorica i mean, i think this server shows plenty of fans that are sticking with them, as well as that's not permanent either. even though i love how ooblets is looking, if they made a game in a genre i wasn't interested in i probably wouldn't get it. another game is gonna have similar risks either way
zablorg 02-Aug-19 02:56 AM
@PassTheNachos what are you talking about. It's an upfront payment. That's the appeal @DorkOrca that's tru
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 02:56 AM
@M.Zakky That doesn't change the fact they need to work on it. Not every software was out with every feature the creators wanted to put in it. Coding is a mess - as a dev I can safely say that - and saying "but this is simple stuff !!!!!!!!" is simply ignorant.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 02:56 AM
😳
Uwu 02-Aug-19 02:57 AM
🤔
🤔 3
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 02:58 AM
@Honeyxilia it has been industry standard for a while so releasing barebones stuff and expecting to be praised for it is simply ignorant
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:58 AM
Setting up cloud storage requires previously purchased infrastructure for cloud storage as well as integration on the game developers' part. Valve has had years to accumulate those resources. EGS hasn't. It's that simple.
Uwu 02-Aug-19 02:59 AM
Meanwhile newer launchers like uplay and origin already have more features than Epic will probably ever have
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 02:59 AM
I think speaking about the development of the epic games store is a bit of a moot point, we don't know much about the development. the several years of work on it was most likely a small group planning out the groundwork, could've it been mismanaged? yeah sure absolutely, but i'm really not here to defend epic, just here to support ooblets
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 03:00 AM
I mean either way like... Okay? You'd be buying Ooblets, not the Epic Games launcher.
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 03:01 AM
Discord store actually came out in the same month as EGS and already had cloud saves from get go
Uwu 02-Aug-19 03:01 AM
Take a look at this screenshot and then tell me there isn't a problem here :u https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA7tnZ5XsAUEqcy?format=jpg I see no demands for the game. (edited)
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 03:02 AM
Just....pirate the game or just wait. Not worth arguing over a game that ain’t AAA.
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 03:02 AM
@M.Zakky it's almost like servers already asked some kind of cloud saves in itself and Epic don't have that kind of thing to consider
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 03:02 AM
Patreon patrons were never guaranteed the game as a reward. Ever. @Uwu
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 03:03 AM
@Honeyxilia it's almost like Epic is developer of Fortnite which has cloud saves 😳
butterfly 02-Aug-19 03:03 AM
what's the game even
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:03 AM
wow that screenshot is so legit, that reply at 12:48 am to something from 5:35 pm,
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 03:04 AM
@Uwu, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Uwu said: I mean how the dev responded. Calling people who probably would have bought your game without it being on the EGS "toxic gamers" and "kids that can't use more than one launcher" is a **** move.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 03:04 AM
😳
butterfly 02-Aug-19 03:05 AM
@M.Zakky Fortnite is an always online game. Just like Dauntless. Just like upcoming AutoChess. Just like other MMOs launching on EGS. Almost like they have to have always running structure all the time. @Uwu You are conflating one group of people with the other. One group doesn't go on mass harassment crusades of the developers like the other (edited)
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 03:06 AM
Unreal Engine asset store also has shopping cart as well, which makes EGS being so barebones just bizarre
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:06 AM
you should do a better job photoshopping next time, if you wanna take advantage of an out of context reply to someone that was more than likely directly bashing him or demanding a game. given the first message was pretty reasonably worded i'm sure his response would've been more reasonable too from what i saw of his exchanges today but naw, you decided to provide a super disingenuous "screenshot", bravo, good luck having people take you seriously
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 03:06 AM
The large majority of people joining the server en-masse to harass the devs likely are, in fact, people mad that they have to use more than one launcher. And regardless of how old they are, they're definitely acting like little kids. 👀
Uwu 02-Aug-19 03:06 AM
Well from what I've seen, it seems like the devs would rather get their shiny epic money and leave it at that, instead of getting a crapton more in sales 🤔 That's also not the only thing that dev has said that was like that. (edited)
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 03:07 AM
They sound like pricks
Astorica 02-Aug-19 03:07 AM
Sure, of course they still have support, but they've also lost a lot of support. You can't say everyone in here that is upset is just a filthy whiny baby gamer from 4chan or Reddit. There's people here who have followed for years, bought merch, supported them on Patreon, went to PAX to see their booths, that are all unhappy with the change and are dropping support or waiting for the release on a different platform now Word of mouth/virality is the strongest marketing a game can get because it's earned, and there's a lot of negativity going around the game now not only from EGS but also the devs response to people I get being brigaded all day is tiring but I wish they had taken a break and let everything cool down a bit before joining the chats (edited)
katers 02-Aug-19 03:07 AM
I have more of a problem with the way the devs have been treating their patrons/followers than EGS, sadly
butterfly 02-Aug-19 03:07 AM
"crapton more in sales" where did you source that? are you from the future and can predict every success in games? @Uwu
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:08 AM
honestly the majority of people that joined the server to harass the devs never knew about the game prior to this and had no interest. just wanted to get in on that sweet sweet dev harassment
zablorg 02-Aug-19 03:08 AM
People seem very confident that they'd get less sales. I don't think any evidence has been provided on that, it's necessarily an impossible thing to measure. I've seen devs claim that the sheer crowding on Steam would wipe them out in days
butterfly 02-Aug-19 03:09 AM
pretending like every single game succeeds is a survivorship bias, a huge one at that
Uwu 02-Aug-19 03:10 AM
Honestly I'm just gonna leave some of the "not condescending" stuff behind for you to look at and judge for yourself. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/533428327311212574/606627977501081628/Sem_Titulo.png https://imgur.com/a/7du1ztj
katers 02-Aug-19 03:10 AM
I mean, I joined today but I had just been following on twitter and steam for their updates, I dont like having a ton of servers in discord but it doesn't mean I wanted to get in on the harassment. I'm not sure lumping people similar to this into a "majority" group is fair. I think people just wanted to be heard (outside of the trolls).
zablorg 02-Aug-19 03:11 AM
"nobody owes you the game" oh NOOOOOO
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 03:11 AM
let's not pretend that ooblets wasn't going to be a success either way, it has a massive following it's going to sell at least million copies at bare minimum
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:11 AM
@Uwu oooooh yeah cause the guy he was responding definitely wasn't provoking him, i saw that guy's messages pop up now and then through today and the others he sent weren't much better, feel free to keep posting these great screenshots that are for sure damning evidence
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 03:12 AM
lmao they left
zablorg 02-Aug-19 03:13 AM
Again- no one here is in a position to know anything about projected sales imo. Game releases are extremely fickle.
butterfly 02-Aug-19 03:13 AM
A GDC survey said half of game developers support game industry unionization, and a majority believe that Steam does not earn its 30-percent revenue take.
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:14 AM
I mean duh. F steam
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:14 AM
galaxy brain strategy, coming in to harass the devs just because they thought they made a bad business decision and will get less sales
Ellie Lalonde 02-Aug-19 03:14 AM
see on one hand, i do think joining a server for a game you weren't going to buy just to harass the devs is bad. on the other hand, i question what you guys deem "harassment" since in my brief look through the discourse it seems like plenty of people have made valid criticisms but have still been called "entitled". also, people that aren't fans are still allowed to criticize the devs for their conduct.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 03:15 AM
😳
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 03:15 AM
How about all the piracy jokes, or trying to work out the devs' finances and accusing them of being greedy for checks notes having bills and production expenses? (edited)
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:17 AM
there has been plenty of harassment and even though there have been people bringing up legit concerns there's a good chunk of those people too that were doing it in bad faith, trying to get a rise or provoke a response, people have been lead here all day from various threads from various parts of the internet just to dunk on the devs, if that ain't harassment...
butterfly 02-Aug-19 03:17 AM
"my brief look" is inherently anecdotal. I can just as well say we had six trolls "joking" about piracy and throwing bile into the discussion
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:17 AM
rent HA. My girlfriend can get rent through patreon. Rent is a poor people problem. Sips gamerfuel
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 03:18 AM
"dean takahashi" lol good expert you got there let's pretend that steam is the only storefront that has 30% cut, rest don't count because it would go against your narrative
Anomalies 02-Aug-19 03:18 AM
We can differentiate between them and someone like myself who simply isn't going to buy through epic but feels that their post was in bad taste. Targeting the main form of communication to people who the devs by their own words do not think are the target audience of the game is a little strange.
Ellie Lalonde 02-Aug-19 03:18 AM
oh yeah that's pretty bad too. i'd argue that's not where the greedy comments come from, though. i certainly called them that when i first heard about this on my friend's server. to me it seemed like the devs were more concerned with money than with their fans abd were actively being dicks to said fans.
butterfly 02-Aug-19 03:19 AM
@M.Zakky he just quotes the survey, which he did not conduct. Brendan Sinclair said the same. https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-01-24-just-6-percent-of-devs-say-steam-earns-its-30-percent-cut-survey (edited)
GDC poll shows which storefronts developers are depending on and which platforms they're working on
Gudi 02-Aug-19 03:20 AM
This is actually such a smart move from the devs. Make a super condescending post, get a lot of flak, which means more people are talking about the game even if they didn't know about it before, which leads to them getting more sales + the epic check. Hope it was worth it though.
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:20 AM
I feel people read it how they want and to them it was a better way to get the game out to the fans. Cause money (edited)
ioio 02-Aug-19 03:20 AM
@butterfly but how is this surprising? Of course everyone wants more money and thinks that things are too expensive...
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 03:21 AM
They literally said the money would help them make a more complete, enjoyable product and acquire the resources they previously couldn't afford Rebecca is the ONLY PROGRAMMER for Ooblets and does most of the art (and dances) many of the people raging today really don't understand what that entails (edited)
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:21 AM
i think it's fair to think the post was in bad taste, to not wanna buy the game on the epic store, and other concerns... i think the way people have come in and voiced them was done terribly, i'm not sure what there is to gain by dogpiling a discord server with these concerns voiced the aggressive way they were for the most part. it's a shame that genuine people were buried under that
butterfly 02-Aug-19 03:21 AM
@ioio the last year's survey was polar opposite of that, but okay, new account
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 03:21 AM
I’m here to spread greatness known as Bloodstained Ritual of the Night sarcasm Like for me, I don’t give a f about this Ooblets game because it looks like a turd and not worth ~$30-60 atm. Epic Games right now looks like a turd, it’s Fortnite fans are turds, their so-called Fortnite tourney is full of feces painted in gold. They have so many money, yet can’t even get a decent shopping cart. At the same time, they’re trying NOT to be like Steam (aka skin trading hub, review bomb site, adult games etc) so simply copying and rushing will make them be like Stream in a different name. They’re going through growing pains like Steam, just slow steady like a turtle So, if you have terminal illness and have less than a year, go right ahead, complain & beg the devs to have it on steam as your dying wish. If you hate them so much, start buying guns blazing and ensure the game will never come bc you kill them. Otherwise, freakin wait or play a better game than this turd.
hmaon 02-Aug-19 03:22 AM
@LuckyBlue " I don’t give a f about this Ooblets game"—you seem to be in the wrong discord then? (edited)
ioio 02-Aug-19 03:22 AM
@Gudi exactly this. Someone on resetera made a telling picture. The E3 announcement trailer of this game got nearly zero interest there, yet this blogpost gets around fifty times more... This whole thing is a media hack and it actually works.
katers 02-Aug-19 03:22 AM
Yeah, that's awfully unhelpful of a post. No one was really talking about the wait time anyways.
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:22 AM
Geez lucky blue. Leave you tool xD
Ellie Lalonde 02-Aug-19 03:22 AM
that's fair @Buff Pigeon
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:24 AM
email was also offered as another avenue to get concerns addressed but from what it seemed like not many people took advantage of that, which to me at least feels like people just wanted to harass given that it'd be harder to ignore messages when its on their discord server isntead of an email they could more easily delete and ignore. not saying everyone came to this discord specifically for that... but still, seems like a good amount did and either came in here spouting a bunch of stuff about epic or latched onto other concerns with more substance to them (ones related to the EGS platform as well) just to try and justify their own behavior
ioio 02-Aug-19 03:24 AM
@butterfly why is it problem that this is a new account? I wishlisted the game on Steam as soon as it was available and planned to buy it at launch. I don't have the right to have an opinion just because I wasn't here on the discord? I mean, yeah, you can make a bubble, that always works for sure....
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:25 AM
@ioio it was the media mafia of polar bear brawler bowler hat wearing lazer lizards. That's why they did it.
Ellie Lalonde 02-Aug-19 03:26 AM
can i just say, the graphics on that survey are un-hecking-readable. they would've been better with pie charts. (edited)
Astorica 02-Aug-19 03:26 AM
They did not list the email in an announcement for people to look to and send criticism or voice concerns though, people came to this chat because it is labeled "epic chat" I bet most people didn't even know the email was an option, because I sure didn't until you just said that
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:27 AM
Fooled us this whole time with the whole "budget" thing. Those crafty media mafia of polar bear brawler bowler hat wearing lazer lizards (edited)
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:27 AM
i didn't see how this whole thing started but i'm assuming there was no epic chat at first when the announcement was made that it would be epic exclusive but then the discord flooded with people and they made it to try and keep itout of the other channels of the discord, i'm just guessing though
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 03:28 AM
@Astorica it's in the chat description, it's in the pin message in the other chat. It was said multiple times on both chat.
ioio 02-Aug-19 03:28 AM
@Buff Pigeon to be honest the harassment went both way. Just look ad the discussion here, how are people critical with this move handled by others. Also check some developer comment highlights about "entitled toxic baby gamers". Let's say at least the attitude of the developers did not help to calm the nerves....
Astorica 02-Aug-19 03:29 AM
Chat description and pins are not widely noticeable, this is certainly a reason to drop an @ everyone for them
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:29 AM
Mmpbbbhwll for short.
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 03:30 AM
@ioio they are pricks
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 03:30 AM
Maybe for people coming now, indeed. But yesterday I can assure you, everyone saw it.
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:30 AM
i think there's a difference between personal attacks and the devs addressing groups of people. buncha people came in and dogpiled the devs so of course their responses weren't gonna be completely civil and calm in return but they never directed the talked about entitled toxic baby gamers to specific people. i don't agree that the attitude was inappropriate of them since they deserve to be able to defend themselves against the mass of people that came in
Viperishrhyme5 02-Aug-19 03:31 AM
I can understand the reasoning of going with EGS and how having that guaranteed money can help not just in the long run but day to day as well. Where I feel kinda hurt is the way they made it feel like it was my fault that I have a problem with the EGS store and that I'm not allowed to voice my issues with the EGS store in general, that I am just entitled gamer where I have legit had friends have whole accounts compromised and they're billing information used to buy things without their consent and to stop it they literally had to call their credit card company and refute the charges because Epic wouldn't (more of a fault of Epic not the Ooblet Devs). The one thing I think that is getting lost now a day with game development companies both big and small is that the consumer still matters and that we're not just money signs, we are actual people because at the end of the day, you make the game with the consumer in mind and how to get the consumer to buy and enjoy the game. That's why so many people got into game dev was to make things that consumers would love and enjoy and stuff that would leave a lasting impression on them, that's why I even want to get into game development one day. At the end of the day it is the Ooblets Devs's choice to sign deals and do what is best for not just the consumer but also for their employees who they have to keep in mind as well when making decisions like this. Game Devs and Companies have to play a game of balancing both the needs and preferences of their consumers and community as much as they have to do what's best for business, their employees and keeping the lights on. I will likely wait until this game comes out on another platform that I support and hope that I haven't forgotten about it by then with new games coming out. All I can say is that it looks very promising and I hope that the game does well as it is a unique design and it appears to be done quite elegantly but I will only know for sure when I get my hands on it.
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:32 AM
Y'all read too hard into. I never felt attacked as a gamer reading the post. Maybe it's because your guilty of something?
Ellie Lalonde 02-Aug-19 03:32 AM
yeah, i was about to say, maybe it would be good if the mods or whoever made the default channel (i.e the one you automatically get sent to when you enter the server) one that just has the message mentioning the thing about the emails. or just have the bot do it but i don't know how your bot works and if you can make it do that. (edited)
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 03:32 AM
Sometimes it better to stay silent especially after the announcement and let epic games come to the rescue and waste more money like Shemue 3
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 03:32 AM
I did not feel attacked either, but everyone has different experiences and feelings. Let's stop judging each other. 😃 (edited)
catmugg 02-Aug-19 03:32 AM
i've been following this game for a long time and i feel like the backlash against EGS is unwarranted - they're just using a different platform to deliver the same/better game! and by all accounts it seems better for the devs and about the same for the consumer? valve and steam have tons of issues, and the only people the post was talking to were the people who were riling up at a newly opened storefront for very simple-fix issues...
ioio 02-Aug-19 03:33 AM
@Buff Pigeon technically if someone addressing the "devs" he/she is addressing a "group of people". You can't call others "entitled, toxic babies" then hide behind "that was a group" and "of course our fans are not in that group". Even in the title here says that we should write emails considering there are real persons behind the email address. Well there are real persons behind the "groups" also.
Rodfigs 02-Aug-19 03:33 AM
If the issues are easy to fix how come they havent been ab,e to
neon 02-Aug-19 03:33 AM
shemue was never good anyway
🤷 2
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:34 AM
@catmugg are you saying it wasn't the epic mafia trying to ruin gaming????
Ellie Lalonde 02-Aug-19 03:34 AM
@Ftothekman "you're offended that means you know it's true" is bad discourse and often used as a bullying tactic anyway (something like "you wouldn't be getting mad at being called stupid if it wasn't true"). it's perfectly normal to get mad at people saying untrue things about you. (edited)
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:34 AM
I don't think that the importance of people buying the game is lost on them at all, but again, the consumer is part of it and storefront as well, epic offered them a better deal than a steam launch would, and epic provided financial stability, something that shouldn't be undervalued and will honestly probably help the quality of the game come out way better. and it seems like they still have a consumer base given that there are plenty of people still looking forward to buying it on epic or xbox one @ioio that would work as a counter if the dev team wasn't just two people that people were specifically directing their comments to
ircubic 02-Aug-19 03:35 AM
Having gone through the dark days of No Man's Sky and the recent backlash to Anthem, I do see that a lot of people confuse "the consumer matters" with "I should appeal to every single customer's wishes", and will make sure the developers hear their opinion. Repeatedly and abusingly. And then they call it "deserved criticism" or "I have a right to be angry". Look, it's a couple dollars. Chill. You're not owed a game, not being able to play it isn't going to crush your hopes and dreams. (edited)
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 03:36 AM
why are developers such entitled babies? nobody owes you a purchase 😳
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 03:36 AM
@catmugg, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@catmugg said: @Ftothekman oh ****, no of course it was! i just owe money to the epic mob and i'm tryin not to sleep with the fishes
zablorg 02-Aug-19 03:37 AM
@M.Zakky Epic does now, contractually!
radladrad 3
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:37 AM
Pay in dabs or sleep with the phishes
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 03:37 AM
Or drown in coins
ioio 02-Aug-19 03:37 AM
@Buff Pigeon then what is the verdict? Criticizing a group of 2 people is "harassment", criticizing a group of many people is "funny"? Or I don't get your point. You generate excuse for devs while their behavior was similarly unacceptable like those who harassed them. Just think about this: they bashing people for not talking about climate change and human rights instead of this while announcing their exclusive partnership with a mainly Chinese company. China is the biggest CO2 emitter and human rights are also in a really bad shape there.
Ellie Lalonde 02-Aug-19 03:38 AM
@ircubic if people have financially supported the game up until now, which i've seen several people mention, i think they are very much entitled to the game.
Rodfigs 02-Aug-19 03:38 AM
If buff pigeon is getting mad at what is said to the devs maybe its true
catmugg 02-Aug-19 03:39 AM
@ioio is 2 people a "group"?
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:39 AM
I mean yeah.
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:39 AM
@ioio i don't know what you want me to tell you since people were literally directing their messages at the two devs, the specific people, from what i saw of the devs responding in turn they just replied to the general groups whenever they had talked about entitlement and the like, not specific individuals.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 03:39 AM
@Ellie Lalonde Not if they didn't pre-purchase the game they're not
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 03:40 AM
Technically, they have been financially helping a dev making her game. But it's never been a actual pledge for the game, like on a kickstarter. However, I understand thet some people might feel gutted if they felt really invested. I think there's a slight difference. @Ellie Lalonde
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 03:41 AM
Question time 😃 All the folks getting super upset about this, were you all super into and super hyped about the release of Ooblets ?
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:41 AM
I think it should come to switch over steam. Like the opposite move of the ahit devs
Rodfigs 02-Aug-19 03:42 AM
Of course i was alpha (edited)
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 03:42 AM
😳
ioio 02-Aug-19 03:42 AM
@catmugg I don't know, I am asking. Because here the comments from the developers were excused because "they are talking about a group and it does not matter". And I tend to disagree with this one. You cannot sh**talk about a group of people, it is not an excuse that you were not personal so it is acceptable. The goup of people still consists individuals. If you call the group "entitled toxic babies" you call actual persons that way. It is just more evindent that if the group consists 2 person then it is personal. But if the group consists 1million persons it is still personal. And even worse since you are generalizing...
Fli 02-Aug-19 03:42 AM
It's obvious that my opinion will just be handwaved away and I'll put in the "entitled babby gamer" camp so whatever. I was incredibly excited for Ooblets, I had even gotten friends interested in it. After deleting my Epic account last year due to it being massively insecure I decided that no game is worth the potential security of my account and I'll be happy to wait for any exclusivity window to be up. After reading your blog put out today, which literally just told me that my opinion is irrelevant because I'm only allowed to be upset about one thing at a time, my interest has gone. I'd consider myself one of the silent majority in most situations but this blog post was so badly written that I felt like I had to give my opinion on it. You can write it off as 'jokes' as much as you want, but if it truly was an attempt at humour then you are only second to blizzard in your inability to read a room and understand your potential consumer. Handwave me away as a toxic entitled gamer though if it makes you feel better, at least you'll have some guaranteed money now to make up for all the people you've alienated.
CommradeWolfie 02-Aug-19 03:43 AM
So i can't have ooblets ever? so i have to spend hundreds of dollars for a switch or xbox just to add more money to play a game i been waiting since 2016-17. And my fav boi clomper. I just want it on steam my prefered platform.
Ellie Lalonde 02-Aug-19 03:43 AM
imma be real that seems like a load of bull @DorkOrca. money was still exchanged, with the expectation that a product would be delivered in a certain way. i think it's completely understandable and justified to feel ripped off when the devs suddenly change their mind.
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 03:43 AM
Ooblets looks trash to me. I’m just here riding the firestorm
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:43 AM
they referred to entitled toxic babies and the like as a group... so that'd be referring to the entitled toxic babies, the ones that would deserve to be called that. they didn't call EVERYONE ever that, just just referred to a group of people that were that
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 03:43 AM
@CommradeWolfie it will be on steam at some point. No need to spend hundreds.
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:43 AM
They were talking trash about the worst of gamers. Not good gamers. That's like saying I can't trash Nazis for being the absolute worst Get out @LuckyBlue (edited)
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 03:44 AM
@LuckyBlue honesty is always best!
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 03:44 AM
@PassTheNachos, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@PassTheNachos said: Epic paid the developers to add motion capture to their goofy *** game
Viperishrhyme5 02-Aug-19 03:44 AM
I am kinda more disapointed then angry, was looking forward to playing it just personally I just don't support some of Epic's practices and some of the mistakes and flaws (both as a Company and as a Store front) they have made and some of two face statements that they have made where they said they would do one thing then change the next even on stuff they promised or promoted as things that were going to happen with the EGS
ioio 02-Aug-19 03:45 AM
@Fli actually the new trend is that "your opinion does not matter because you are new on this discord" 😄
Rhubarbist 02-Aug-19 03:45 AM
@@Viperishrhyme5 Ok, that's a shame, wait until it comes out on another platform then? Problem solved?
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 03:45 AM
@Ellie Lalonde Do you even know what Patreon is? People who contribute to the Ooblets patreon have never been promised any control over the direction of the game, its release platforms, or anything. Contributing to a Patreon isn't buying stocks in a game's development cycle.
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 03:46 AM
then just wait for the game on steam! It will happen. it's okay, you'll need a bit more patience I suppose 😃 @Viperishrhyme5
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:46 AM
the money involved with patreon and the like does complicate things but, good to keep in mind that it's timed exclusivity, will still most likely end up on steam later and will also be available on xbox one
hmaon 02-Aug-19 03:46 AM
the patreon is very clear that it's for behind the scenes stuff and cat pictures only
nerdinclass 02-Aug-19 03:46 AM
Yeah people have a right to be concerned steam has had issues with security but it’s only been from outside sources like hackers epic was purposely data mining it’s users
Coyeete 02-Aug-19 03:46 AM
@Ellie Lalonde If you are referring to people donating to their patreon feeling entitled to a copy of the game, no where on the patreon page does it say any of the tiers will receive a copy of the game. on any specific platform. So having that expectation is unrealistic.
Fli 02-Aug-19 03:46 AM
@ioio Well that's nice. I'm sure that living in an echo chamber gives a super accurate sample size of how the majority of people feel
Ellie Lalonde 02-Aug-19 03:46 AM
@AlphaVDP2 tbh i'm just an entitled gamer here to discuss devs being jerks and i think i have the right to do that even if i wasn't really excited about the game. @Buff Pigeon the issue is that it seems like they're throwing everyone making a criticism or feeling ripped off an "entitled toxic baby", especially in the blog post that started all of this.
catmugg 02-Aug-19 03:47 AM
@ioio I think aiming the vitriol at 2 public facing devs, who have chosen to attach their names to a product we're all excited to consume, over a decision that was best for their game & their team, is very different to those developers trying to balance out a previously-riled-up crowd of people who are: a) largely personally unknown to them, and b) already angry about the announcement, because it has a back-catalogue of poor PR... these are just 2 folks giving us their best game, and don't deserve umpteen strangers belittling them about what was (or at least I read as) a pretty jokingly accurate description of the epic hate
ioio 02-Aug-19 03:47 AM
@DorkOrca wait is there a patreon for this game? How much they earn there? Was it really necessary to do this Epic move then, didn't they patreon pay well enough...?
Rhubarbist 02-Aug-19 03:48 AM
The data mining was disproved, but I'm guessing you're not going to let facts get in the way of some classic gamer outrage?
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:48 AM
As a switch main. I wait. A lot. I understand it takes time to make a game. It takes time to get the funding. I waited years for ports. I didn't mind cause I can still love the game as it is still new to me.
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 03:48 AM
@Ellie Lalonde Self actualization is a beautiful thing.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 03:49 AM
😳 I'm just upset because I've been supporting this game for 2 hours and all I've been getting is poor treatment. I'm never buying this game sorry haters 😳
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 03:49 AM
@Rhubarbist Tencent also claims that WeChat doesn't spy on its users, but....... 😳
nerdinclass 02-Aug-19 03:50 AM
I feel like people need to read this article to understand that it’s not just hating on epic it’s real issues https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2019/4/5/18295833/epic-games-store-controversy-explained
Steam has a wealthy new competitor — but is it competing fairly?
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 03:50 AM
@ioio from what i saw yesterday, they had about 1400 patrons, most of them on the 1$ pledge. But I don't have the exact numbers. So I'm afraid it's not enough at all to be a substantial support in the long run.
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:50 AM
due to the funding that is being provided by the epic deal too, seems like a game without that deal wouldn't have been as good as the one they're now planning on releasing with this new funding, and possibly may not have been able to release at all. @Ellie Lalonde i can understand finding how the original blog post was written to be in bad taste, they didn't go as far as saying entitled toxic baby in there though, that came later, and they definitely didn't mean that anyone bringing up concerns about the deal was a part of that group of entitled toxic baby gamers but due to the unfortunate circumstances, was hard to pick out the genuinely concerned people, but i think they got some of the genuine concerns answered through email apparently
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:50 AM
Business never competes fairly. Ex: tgere will be blood
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 03:51 AM
The Patreon has ~1k patrons. Even being generous and pretending all those people are donating $5 a month, that's only 60k a year, or 30k per person. That's an INCREDIBLY sad amount of money for a combination-programmer-3d-modeler-animator-UI-designer to make. It goes way less far when you realize they live in a city with a higher than average cost of living. They've already stated they only have enough resources to afford Rebecca as a programmer. The EG deal is helping them branch out into other resources. (edited)
Fli 02-Aug-19 03:51 AM
It's less the deal and more the attitude around the deal that bothers me. It's intellectually dishonest to place everyone who thought that blogpost was condescending into the "butt of the joke" camp. It means it's easier to argue against them because you dehumanise them, but it's not accurate at all.
zakmo 02-Aug-19 03:51 AM
I'm bummed that steam doesn't offer this but I guess you don't have to when you're used to being the only game in town
ioio 02-Aug-19 03:52 AM
@EmMyshuno yeah, so they are not transparent with their patreon earnings, I see. Luckily most projects on patreon are transparent with that also.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 03:52 AM
This reminds me of a Shakespeare quote: The sound of a twenty dollar note slipping between thine fingers shall never ring out. 😳
ZombieMesh 02-Aug-19 03:52 AM
Hello! I just popped in to give an opinion that's sort of in the middle. The announcement Ooblets made will only affect a very small percentage of those who have been following the game for awhile and are already invested, so the damage is basically negligible. The announcement also did nothing for people who weren't going to buy the game anyway, so theres no damage there. The real damage is for people vaguely familiar with Ooblets or people who might be in the market for a game like Ooblets but dont know a lot about it. People like me. I remember when Ooblets was first announced and I thought "oh that's cute, I might buy it if it comes out." I was never a confirmed sale, but very much a potential. And that's who Ooblets scared away. Someone who doesn't know much about Ooblets doesnt have any familiarity or good will stored for the devs, so a very decisive post like that is more likely to feel like a random attack. At the end of the day, Ooblets will be fine. Most of the drama will die off in a week and a good chunk of people put off by the post and response will forget it and buy it once it comes out. But despite that, they definitely hurt potential sales and fans, even if it's not by a lot. Anyway, if you saw this post in the waterfall of discourse, hope it was as mild of a read as bathwater that's been sitting there for 30 minutes.
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 03:52 AM
@ioio to be fair, I'm not on patreon, but they might be within the platform. Or it might have been said already. If you have concerns, why not use the email like it was suggested? 😃
nerdinclass 02-Aug-19 03:53 AM
I feel like we should have pinned posts to what the devs have already responded too i know I have suggested this before but i think it will help clear the confusion (edited)
Ellie Lalonde 02-Aug-19 03:54 AM
man i can see why the devs felt dogpiled, discord is terrible for this sort of thing. @DorkOrca @Coyeete I thought about it a but more while writing my replies to you two and I can see your point. i still feel kinda eeeeeh about it but not as negatively as i did before.
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:54 AM
ooblets will do fine, i don't think it's gonna sell significantly less or more than it would've otherwise but they now get to develop a game with financial stability and that's a big advantage
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 03:54 AM
Ooblets the game will still be Ooblets the game ... the game is not changing. The game will still be as amazing as always. Ya'll just have to walk across the street to buy it.
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:55 AM
I feel we're ignoring the media mafia here. I mean look at their polar bear brawler bowler hats. They mean business, fortnite business.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 03:55 AM
What is this game even about? Is it like Slime Rancher?
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 03:55 AM
you're good, don't worry 😉 @ZombieMesh I'm personally not affected by the Epic thing so I still look forward to it, and I really hope we end up all enjoying the game!
ioio 02-Aug-19 03:56 AM
@EmMyshuno I've tried to communicate them last day. I know my questions were provocative, but I was totally respectful with them. Yet the only thing I got from the guy were personal attacks and nothing informative at all. So I won't waste time on that one, I don't think they plan to answer the hard questions. They have a narrative and a standpoint from which everyone who are sad/angry is an entitled toxic baby gamer or somewhat like that and they decided to stay in that bubble which I honestly can understand. It is always really hard to do a decision then after that see that you actually were not well informed, there are tons of other aspects of your decision which makes it a bit worse
Fli 02-Aug-19 03:56 AM
@AlphaVDP2 More walking across the street into a bad neighbourhood where your wallet has been stolen several times, sure.
nerdinclass 02-Aug-19 03:57 AM
@ioio could we have a screen shot of that conversation just for proof purposes in the future when talking about the issues with the devs (edited)
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 03:57 AM
@PassTheNachos it's like Pokemon so it makes sense that devs are terrible at PR 😃 learning from their precursors
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 03:57 AM
Their narrative is that they needed more money to make a product they were happy with, and EG has helped them with that by literally meeting their projected sales numbers in guaranteed sales
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 03:57 AM
@ioio your messages indeed read as quite aggressive, if I were in their shoes, I might feel defensive really quickly. I'm not saying your concerns aren't right. But we are all human and sometimes, communication is really hard. I'd say, take a break, and come back in a few days to see if it's "worth" it to you 😃
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:57 AM
@ioio you lost me at narritive. No one uses that word without hiding the truth.
Cecil 02-Aug-19 03:57 AM
@ioio Pretty much the answer I got as well, despite trying to be as polite as possible, thanking him for taking the time to answer mails like that, and wishing them a success with the game. I tried to point out that how a game is delivered actually is important for us. But the answer was pretty much just "go away you entitled gamer".
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 03:58 AM
I just wanna know why someone would make such a condescending post to their audience and then slap a gif of a clumsily flossing androgynous character over the top of it
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 03:58 AM
@qwertyman hindsight is 20/20, they wrote the blog in the tone they've always written blogs, in a jokey way, and given it was a blog post and not a press release, it was going to people used to that tone already, people that have been following it, so i can definitley see how that blog came out how it did @ioio you didn't receive any personal attacks from them, they didn't refer to any specific individual, if you are offended reading the words "entitled toxic gamer baby" maybe re-evaluate why you think so.
AlphaVDP2 02-Aug-19 03:58 AM
@Fli Haha! But that's where Ooblets is. Surely its worth for Ooblets. Just keep your money in your sock.
Catweasel 02-Aug-19 03:59 AM
There's nothing wrong with being androgynous
Rodfigs 02-Aug-19 03:59 AM
@Buff Pigeon the makers of the game werent personally attacked so if they feel,like that they should re evaluate why they think so
ZombieMesh 02-Aug-19 03:59 AM
@EmMyshuno I think it's going to be a cute game and I wish the devs the best. I just hope they learn from this as well. It might seem odd, but anyone trying to sell a product should not be COMPLETELY honest and willing to share their deepest thoughts. The devs only ostorized people by making a narrative about entitled gamers. Theres some things that shouldnt be said when you're in a business, whether you believe them or not. At the same time, the devs shouldnt have to put up with abuse and shouldnt bow their head to everything.
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 03:59 AM
@Catweasel thank you!!!
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 04:00 AM
@Rodfigs except they actually were, there were messages directed at them as individuals, calling them greedy, shills, etc and a bunch of other stuff. they did not in turn directly at someone and call them entitled, they just referred to a group of people as entitled, no naming names, it's different
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:00 AM
Imagine fending off tons of trolls and jerks all day, clearly writing out your reasons for the decisions you made as a dev team and trying to target people's concerns over and over again, then watching people who just joined go "wow why so uncivil, all you did was call us names"
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 04:00 AM
Just a reminder to stop adding fuel to the fire, and stop provoking each other. Let's act as adults, or at least, sensible people.
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:01 AM
nobody acts like an adult when they believe they're in the right
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 04:01 AM
My antivirus won't let me install Epic Games Store 🤔 I can't buy the game! 😳
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 04:02 AM
All I'm saying is all companies are garbag so just roll with the garbage hills. Steam: allows horrible racist and offensive games and mistreats indies. Epic game store: still new and unfinished, fortnite (edited)
Ellie Lalonde 02-Aug-19 04:02 AM
@Buff Pigeon the entitled thing was more implied in the blog post imo but i can see why someone might not read it that way. anyway, i think i'm done here. you guys are mostly alright. might email the dev if i feel like i have more insight to gain but i'm pretty satisfied with what i found here. sorry if i upset anyone with the stuff i said. have fun with your cute monster farming game (when it comes out)! (edited)
ZombieMesh 02-Aug-19 04:02 AM
I'm honestly surprised Epic doesnt supply all devs from games they've purchased a PR rep to prep for the incoming shitstorm. Epic must know that, even if they think they're the good guys, the way they do things currently upsets people. They need to give small time devs some PR tips and prep them for it.
Buff Pigeon 02-Aug-19 04:03 AM
@Ellie Lalonde no worries it was nice talking with you!
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:03 AM
@PassTheNachos you're joking but EGS is unavailable in number of countries and when people brought it up devs told them to stop being entitled @ZombieMesh have you ever seen Tim Sweeney's Twitter account? they can't even handle their own PR
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 04:03 AM
I know, I can't buy it, which sucks a lotta ass (edited)
Catweasel 02-Aug-19 04:04 AM
he's got a fair bit of randy pitchford in him
Cecil 02-Aug-19 04:04 AM
@ZombieMesh Considering how Tim Sweeney and Sergei Galyonkin at Epic communicates regarding the Epic Games Store, I don't think Epic works with PR people at all. 😛
AfrikaFantasia 02-Aug-19 04:04 AM
Been interested on Ooblets when they showcased on XBoX E3 2017. Wishlisted on Steam since 2017. I don't mind the exclusivity, but the developer have HORRIBLE response for PR. I do not want to buy a game from people like that. (edited)
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EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 04:04 AM
bye @Ellie Lalonde 😃 we will have fun, can't wait!
Fli 02-Aug-19 04:04 AM
If they had just written their decisions then it would have had less backlash in this personal way. I don't condone name calling or bad attitudes from either side, but you've got to expect backlash when you write a blogpost in such a condescending way. To me (and not only me) EGS is a security hole, and that's why I personally will not use it. Then at the end of the post to see that I shouldn't be disappointed that a game I was very excited for will now be inaccessible to me because the world has bigger problems, rubbed me up the wrong way. If it was a joke (which I'm sure it partly was) it was not a good one. I haven't seen any other passive aggressive jokes in any other blog posts either. Feels bad.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:04 AM
People actually brought up that EGS didn't support their local currency, which would mean having to exchange currencies for the ones EGS uses
ioio 02-Aug-19 04:05 AM
@nerdinclass I don't use discord so I am not familiar with its functionalities. I did not make a screenshot but if you can check my history you can find those. It wasn't in this thread as at that time there wasn't such thread. It was in the "ooblets" thread. I am kind of a green guy so my main question was whether the climate change and human rights subject came up while they considered the offer of Epic (owned mostly by a Chinese company). My question was genuine since they even called people out for these subjects in their blogpost so I was genuinely interested in how they dealt with this subject themselves. But the guy told some jokes, assumed that I am also not bothering with these things just try to provoke him and that's all. @EmMyshuno honestly I've thought they are ready for REAL, hard questions since they wrote that provocative blogpost. As a comparison Mechwarrior developer just announced Epic exclusivity also some days ago and he was genuinely really open and talkative about his thoughts, concerns, totally accepted the opposite opinions even admitted that there were some things he indeed did not consider and those may had an impact on his decision. So he felt really honest for me. The devs here seems to me like they are standing on their "moral high ground bubble" and ignoring every valid concerns also by categorizing them as "trolling".
ZombieMesh 02-Aug-19 04:05 AM
@M.Zakky @Cecil I feel really bad for regular Epic staff and employees. They're just trying to do their job the best they can but I'm sure they dont appreciate the dark cloud Epic's bad press puts around them.
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 04:06 AM
Are people ignoring that all companies, except nintendo, are trash? That's a joke. All conpanies are trash. (edited)
Catweasel 02-Aug-19 04:06 AM
dead cells is made by a worker coop and that's awesome.
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PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 04:06 AM
The devs are probably gonna take the money they got from Epic and hire a bunch of strippers to do the motion capture 😳 The EGS is a big security risk and people were hella keen for this game but now they have to hope that the devs change their mind but nope they gonna keep saying you're an entitled jerk that should be more worried about global warming. What a bunch of 🤡
Cecil 02-Aug-19 04:06 AM
@ZombieMesh Yeah, I have a friend working there, and I'm a bit concerned for him as well.
hmaon 02-Aug-19 04:06 AM
@Ftothekman Nintendo isn't perfect 😛
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:06 AM
Nintendo is definitely trash too, and I even have a Wii U so you know I'm not just hating 👀
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:07 AM
@Cecil Galyonkin IS Epic's PR director @ZombieMesh Epic staff and employees have been mistreated by their higher ups for a while, they're infamous for their low pay and crunches @PassTheNachos I don't think so, they're just genuinely that incompetent at PR
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 04:07 AM
@ioio i've seen different. Yesterday when some of the stuff calmed down a bit, I saw Ben acknowledging some the issues that were brought up such as region things. And he did say he's working on adding to the blogpost but the does not want to make things worse, so he's being cautious (edited)
neon 02-Aug-19 04:07 AM
how is it a security risk (edited)
ioio 02-Aug-19 04:08 AM
@DorkOrca even worse, for many payment method Epic actually putds the transaction fee on the buyer. So in some cases people will get the game even more expensive due to this deal. Steam supports much more currency AND always takes the transaction fee.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 04:08 AM
Unless if they're making the next Grand Theft Auto do they really need that much money from Epic? Like they deadass
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 04:08 AM
@neon it isn't. That is fear mongering.
Cecil 02-Aug-19 04:08 AM
@M.Zakky And that says a lot about the part of Epic working with the store. 😄 (edited)
Fli 02-Aug-19 04:09 AM
Are you legitimately saying that the EGS has no security problems?
ZombieMesh 02-Aug-19 04:09 AM
@Ftothekman That's a terrible attitude to have. Companies are made of many parts. So yeah, the parts of the company related to Epic store sucks, but Epic has some good parts too. Same with every company. It tends to be leadership people that are trash and give the company a bad name or steer it in a bad direction. @M.Zakky Of course, but imagine working really hard at your job and being afraid of people getting mad at you.for things unrelated to what you do
Catweasel 02-Aug-19 04:09 AM
@kroshkaruiya1 @TimSweeneyEpic @EpicGames Right now adding games to EGs is still a mostly manual process. We can only add a few games every week. Adding one of the older Epic titles might mean delaying a game or an update from one of our partners.
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 04:09 AM
@ioio let's just hope Epic improves with time then. It's just like with Kickstarter, every time I pledge to outside of my country, my card is charged a fee. Still, I love supporting artists 😃 Even though I wish they chose another platform with less fees (edited)
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:09 AM
@ioio steam also takes significantly more money from the devs, so 👀
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 04:10 AM
@Fli nothing as major as the fear mongering claims. Lots of fake info going around.
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 04:10 AM
guess what they provide along with that 70/30 cut
ZombieMesh 02-Aug-19 04:11 AM
People really underestimate how much a game can cost to make if they think a mild sized patreon is enough to pay two people to work full time.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:12 AM
Game development is SO EXPENSIVE, licensing alone!!
ioio 02-Aug-19 04:12 AM
@DorkOrca the issue here is that Steam gets the industry standard and improves PC gaming as a whole from that money (just check their work on Linux kernel, Proton project, OpenVR project, etc...). At the same time Epic admittedly uses currently an unsustainable business model which they'll have to change in the long run and they invest only into exclusive deals. This is of course good for the developers in the short term since they get a lot of money and they don't have the pressure to make good/popular games. But many, many people are concerned about the long term.
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 04:12 AM
@DorkOrca maya aint cheap. She is a gokd digger
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 04:13 AM
@ioio but Steam is the bad guy ://
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:13 AM
@jckimrey, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@jckimrey said: Development aside, you're PR is * dreadful: https://i.redd.it/sbvluqqq7zd31.png
Fli 02-Aug-19 04:14 AM
Oh wow that attitude. Holy moly
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:14 AM
That doesn't help the devs make profit from their sales lol, who cares what they invest in, they're a multi billion dollar company @ioio maya's garbage anyways!! @Ftothekman
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:14 AM
@Fli sadly Epic supporters live in some kind of a bubble where Steam is the cause of every bad thing that ever happens @DorkOrca you have missed the part where Steam's cut is 30% at most while Epic's is 12%+, meaning it can be anywhere from 12% to 99% they have written in their blogpost that for 12% cut developers get bare minimum of Epic's services, and if they want more they have to offer bigger cut
zakmo 02-Aug-19 04:14 AM
Yeah that's a bummer
minimme 02-Aug-19 04:14 AM
this conversation has been cycling the same points for at least like 12 hours or so, just a reminder to everyone that you're killing time here
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 04:15 AM
@DorkOrca she is a trash goddess in the trash empire
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ZombieMesh 02-Aug-19 04:15 AM
I'll probably be lucky if I find a game related job out of college that pays 40k, and in that position I'm not even making a full game, just contributing to a section of the total work required. So if we treat it like Ooblets devs are working a typical game dev job at a big company, 5 days a week sort of deal, the money from their patreon would not even get close to a stable salary. Now, this doesnt excuse their terrible PR, but the argument that they're being greedy is unfounded
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 04:16 AM
they could've avoided so much backlash if they hired a PR person who knows how to talk to people lol
Arq 02-Aug-19 04:16 AM
@EnforcerKiller oh yeah, maybe they need more money to hire a PR Person then
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:16 AM
source on that, and source on any EGS dev who's had at least 30% of their cut taken so that your issue is actually provable and justified? @M.Zakky
Coyeete 02-Aug-19 04:17 AM
@M.Zakky Do you have a source on the 12%+ statement because I hadn't heard that and can't find anything about that.
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:17 AM
@DorkOrca Tim Sweeney alone has more money than entirety of Valve, not sure why you're so insistent on painting him as misunderstood savior in poverty @Arq yes, they got money before they wrote that blog post @DorkOrca you missed the part in their contract that states that they aren't allowed to reveal their cut
AfrikaFantasia 02-Aug-19 04:17 AM
They should hire some PR person. Now it is too late, i know what kind of person the dev are.
ioio 02-Aug-19 04:17 AM
@DorkOrca how can you say that developing a convenient VR programming API for free or making a way to run games on Linux for free isn't beneficial for developers? Or making generic controller API, providing free multiplayer servers with DDOS protection?
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 04:17 AM
The backlash comes from the same 15 people over and over again though, plus some lost trolls. Again, some points are very valid but just, like once you said it, is it really needed to say it every 10 minutes?
Fli 02-Aug-19 04:17 AM
here's some free PR: guy1: I'm disappointed I can't buy your game because your new storefront doesn't support my currency dev: That's disappointing, we'll look into this The way they handled that was absolutely dreadful
ZombieMesh 02-Aug-19 04:17 AM
Imagine being deluded enough to think partnering with Epic suddenly made the devs rich.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:18 AM
@EnforcerKiller, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@EnforcerKiller said: considering they should have enough money from the deal that it won't matter if the game flops or not (guaranteed sales amount or whatever), I believe they can drop some for a PR person (or just don't be a **)
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:18 AM
@M.Zakky Never said EG didn't make money - just that they're also a multi-billion-dollar company and they take half as much cash from their devs, so.... 👀 @ioio It isn't beneficial for the masses of developers they're profiting from unless they specifically develop games using those tools - and even then, the amount of money they take doesn't justify it, not remotely
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:19 AM
@jckimrey, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@jckimrey said: Imagine being enough of a ** to say this to a supporter: https://i.redd.it/sbvluqqq7zd31.png
Arq 02-Aug-19 04:19 AM
They earned money before lmaoooo you're so dishonest about your statement
nerdinclass 02-Aug-19 04:20 AM
hmaon 02-Aug-19 04:20 AM
@Rowleyy nah, it's not destroyed
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 04:20 AM
They did not destroyed it. Some people are disppointed and will not buy it. But it's not destroyed.
ZombieMesh 02-Aug-19 04:20 AM
Imagine posting the same image again as if it hasn't already been discussed to death. Indie dev doesnt pay a lot. At the start, you basically work for free. And a 1k a month patreon pays less than a regular dev job for a big company soooo
ioio 02-Aug-19 04:21 AM
@DorkOrca have you actual calculation about this or just talking out of your ****? 30% is the industry standard. Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft takes the same. Even third party storefronts like GMG takes the same. And Tim Sweeney Epic CEO admitted that their current model is simply unsustainable. And you can see how they just ignore improving their storefront.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:21 AM
@jckimrey, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@jckimrey said: It's going to be pirated to **** and back now because spiteful people will not forget this: https://i.redd.it/dh9twbz7hxd31.jpg
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 04:21 AM
I'm a single mom with two kids
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:21 AM
Imagine thinking industry standards set under capitalism, an economic system that prioritizes profit with minimal expenditure, are fair and even lmaoooo (edited)
nerdinclass 02-Aug-19 04:22 AM
Fli 02-Aug-19 04:22 AM
Good PR is free though. It doesn't cost anything to be understanding.
ZombieMesh 02-Aug-19 04:22 AM
Honestly why is a single Mom.with two kids paying 20 dollars a month on a video game patreon? And then worried they cant afford the game?
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 04:23 AM
they say it's unsustainable if they took on some of the fees themselves I'm pretty sure Also, I'd still say that Valve's 30% is justified. They provide quite a lot that Epic just doesn't, from download servers to forums to steam cloud to multiplayer to everything else available on steamworks
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 04:23 AM
Stop spamming the same image, omg we already saw it like 20 times. This is tiring.
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Arq 02-Aug-19 04:23 AM
@EmMyshuno they are just troll who want drama. Ignore.
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 04:23 AM
Do we still have mods calling any form of criticism harassment?
nerdinclass 02-Aug-19 04:24 AM
I have never seen it and was worried it was going to get deleted
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:24 AM
@DorkOrca wait do you seriously believe that your best friend Tim is supporting communism with his barebones shady store completely lacking in transparency? should be telling when creator of Steam Spy makes a store that doesn't show any numbers at all, no discussions, no reviews, no concurrent players, all for the sake of making store's popularity as blurry as possible
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 04:24 AM
I'm a single mother with 3 kids and I live in Brazil. I live in Brazil by the way and I really was hoping to be able to play this game. I'm from Brazil and where I come from it's really hard to get access to the Epic Games Store here in Brazil.
ioio 02-Aug-19 04:24 AM
@nerdinclass how dare you call our attention to how bad person the developer is! /s
ZombieMesh 02-Aug-19 04:25 AM
People complaining about how the devs handled this, you've made your point the first time and by now everyone has already formed an opinion on it. No new people are seeing it.
hmaon 02-Aug-19 04:25 AM
@M.Zakky that link is to some speculation about some influencer payout program that doesn't seem to exist yet; Galyonkin is guessing that some devs may want to pay influencers more for some reason
nerdinclass 02-Aug-19 04:26 AM
@ZombieMesh I legit just saw it for the first time and im sure there are others
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:26 AM
dude if you're trying to get me to rally behind the exploitation of labor because profit you're really not doing a good job @M.Zakky
Coyeete 02-Aug-19 04:28 AM
@M.Zakky Hey I appreciate the link. 😃 But from what I am reading the actual split is between 12% and 20% based on the article. Not 12% and 99% like you stated. And It is not taking away features for the devs, its purely for the affiliate program, to pay the streamer or youtuber their cut of the sales. You are basically paying for marketing with how many people are buying your game from what the article says.
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Evey 02-Aug-19 04:28 AM
I think the good part of this whole Thing is that the nice people who will actually support the devs in actually having food to eat have made themselves known and the entitled gamers who will stamp their feet over a different storefront are showing themselves out
ioio 02-Aug-19 04:28 AM
@DorkOrca so you are against the exploitation of labor because of profit? Man it must be hard to be such an Epic shill then... :) https://www.businessinsider.com/fortnite-working-conditions-2019-4
Employees at "Fortnite" maker Epic Games are reportedly facing brutal work hours as the company struggles to keep up with the popularity of its game.
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:28 AM
@DorkOrca not really trying to convince you of anything, it's been fairly obvious for a while that you refuse to listen to anything other than "Steam bad Epic good" @Coyeete it's not between 12% and 20%, 20% was brought up as an example of developer providing higher cut
ZombieMesh 02-Aug-19 04:30 AM
@jckimrey It was bad PR, but wanting to see two people's live.and career as devs burn to the ground over being rude and condescending is a bit much. Thanks to everyone who was/is having a civil discussion on this. I wish you all and Ooblets the best. Whether or not you agree with what they did, making a game is hard work and I hope they make a game they're proud of. I won't be buying it while it's on Epic, and hope the devs have learned more about PR, but wish everyone the best. Goodnight!
Evey 02-Aug-19 04:31 AM
anime avatar
Coyeete 02-Aug-19 04:31 AM
@M.Zakky I am a bit unsure what your point is here though. It is all on the devs if they want to give an influencer more money for promoting their game. Epic is not taking away features from the dev for a lower cut.
Arq 02-Aug-19 04:31 AM
Unlucky
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 04:31 AM
Nonplayercat legitimately doesn't actually hate anyone. They're just another gamer on the internet.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:32 AM
I was never an Epic shill (already stated that a lot of the problems with EG are shared with Steam and most huge companies) and couldn't care less about them, but going exclusive with Epic was financially a very good deal for Ooblets, that's just a fact 👀 @ioio Steam is equally as shady as EGS, EGS just has a better deal for devs financially. That's literally all I've been saying. @M.Zakky
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:32 AM
@PassTheNachos, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
Evey 02-Aug-19 04:34 AM
You know it's not actually the gotcha you think it is to flounce about how you're going to pirate the game. Just goes to show how this game is living rent-free in your mind
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:34 AM
lol
Sinner 02-Aug-19 04:34 AM
rent free in their computers too lmao
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 04:35 AM
Exactly, which is why I won't pirate the game.
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:35 AM
@DorkOrca "both sides" 😔 your bias is obvious despite what you're claiming, steam is superior as a storefront and denying it is just stupid @Evey https://i.imgur.com/4h81GAp.jpg
Fli 02-Aug-19 04:35 AM
this "Gamers bad" narrative that people spin after spouting absolutely awful PR is just awful.
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 04:36 AM
whats wrong with anime avatars
Evey 02-Aug-19 04:36 AM
Why... and how... would the game be paying rent.... to live in their computer...? @M.Zakky#4590 omg where'd you get my selfie 😩 hahahaha did they literally enter and leave just to post that (edited)
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:36 AM
Only a gamer would get mad about people making fun of gamers 🤔
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 04:37 AM
Lmao how much do you get paid to carry on for the devs, @DorkOrca . Are you gonna be like some of the other mods and try to accuse me of harassment or racism as well? (edited)
Arq 02-Aug-19 04:38 AM
@Evey a lot of them only joined the discord this morning. (edited)
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:38 AM
@Evey 😔 @DorkOrca wait so you don't play video games? why do you giving your opinions on video game storefronts then?
Fli 02-Aug-19 04:38 AM
@DorkOrca Nah, most people don't like being condescended to and dehumanised for having a differing opinion. You all unga bunga slap the table in order to call out people who are dehumanising devs by demanding things, then go on to lump everyone who disagrees together as a toxic gamer
ioio 02-Aug-19 04:38 AM
I am certainly against piracy but I still see some sound logic behind this. Again, I don't agree with it but it is logical: - Epic actually upfront ensures the developers that they will meet their desired sales - Epic actually pays for as much sales - the developers are happy, they got the money they've expected for their game - now it is Epic's turn to get back the money for their investments - people are angry because of this business practice and don't want to support Epic - now at this point people pirating the game does not cause any harm to the developers as they already decided to go on a routw where sales don't really matter for them - but piracy hurts Epic for sure since they can't get back their initial investment
Coyeete 02-Aug-19 04:39 AM
A lot of people seem to be forgetting that EGS is an extremely new game store, whereas Steam has been around for quite longer than EGS. Expecting EGS to be perfectly in line with Steam is a super unrealistic standard to place on a brand new storefront.
Evey 02-Aug-19 04:40 AM
I mean, exactly, it's not the epic dunk you think it is to say you're going to pirate it. I don't think the devs will be heartbroken that they have the money AND more people are playing their game, lmao
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 04:40 AM
Ooblets dev alienated their entire fanbase, now that's a VICTORY ROYALE
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:40 AM
that's exactly what a gamer would say @Fli smh
Sinner 02-Aug-19 04:40 AM
EGS is one of the largest companies in the world backing it, why can't they add a comment section? Just to start.
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:40 AM
@iruma cece star bellies aren't mods, today that role is just given to people defending EGS decision @Coyeete even discord store has launched with cloud saves and it was released in the same month as epic store, the point is that they don't even have bare expected minimum
tengblad 02-Aug-19 04:41 AM
I... don't think a comments section has ever made anything better.
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Fli 02-Aug-19 04:41 AM
Steam also came out 15 years ago, and plenty of storefronts since the advent of steam have had more features going out of the gate than EGS did. @DorkOrca Cool, so you have nothing of any worth to say anymore good to know.
Evey 02-Aug-19 04:42 AM
"They have money, why can't they add [feature]?" Spoken like someone who's never worked in software development and thinks problems can be solved instantly by throwing money at them
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 04:42 AM
I literally still have no idea what this game is about. YEET
ioio 02-Aug-19 04:42 AM
@Fiddlekins it is basically that many indie devs and some sites like Kotaku acts like the gaming industry is fun and games just it would be better without actual gamers. 😃
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:42 AM
Is telling someone they only play games for clout an insult now?? what a world I play minecraft so checkmate, gamer
Sinner 02-Aug-19 04:42 AM
They also had 14 years to figure this out so...
Fli 02-Aug-19 04:44 AM
Oh yes, adding features to a storefront is literally impossible because software development is so hard. No other storefront has these features at launch because it's super difficult.
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 04:44 AM
Protip @DorkOrca : you're a gamer too
ioio 02-Aug-19 04:44 AM
@Sinner do you really think that in other businesses it is accepted to release something with the technology from 15 years ago? Imagine a mobile or a television coming out that way. It isn't acceptable. It would not be acceptable even in this business, normally the market would kill Epic Store. This is why they decided to manipulate consumers with their money. It is like the first free shot from a drug dealer....
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:45 AM
@Evey "I don't think the devs will be heartbroken" actually that's the case since they got mad at people from regions where EGS is unavailable @Evey "Spoken like someone who's never worked in software development" here -> https://twitter.com/steam_spy/status/1069970381715501056 the storefront has been in development for several years, I'm gonna guess it's gonna take another 10 years for them to implement impossible features such as shopping cart and cloud saves
Epic Games just announced a store with 88/12 split (no tiers), access to the audience, and Support-A-Creator program. I've been working on this project at my day job for the past several years. https://t.co/eG1KdWGpK4
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Coyeete 02-Aug-19 04:45 AM
The EGS is completely free though, so that argument is not as one-to-one as you think. The game itself is still the same. You are not buying access to a storefront. @jckimrey
Evey 02-Aug-19 04:45 AM
Literally not how it works. Software doesn't get made faster by paying a dev team more
Sinner 02-Aug-19 04:46 AM
@ioio I agree with you. @Evey Thats the funniest thing I've ever heard, you are a true meme meister.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:46 AM
"Programming is actually super easy and this brand new service should be ashamed of not being as good as this other service that's had years to develop its craft" is the most gamer take I've ever heard
Gudi 02-Aug-19 04:46 AM
@DorkOrca even north korea knows how to implement a shopping cart
Rhubarbist 02-Aug-19 04:47 AM
People who are dead-set on not using EGS because of its lack of features, you are completely entitled to not be forced to use a launcher against your will. So why don't you just ... leave? Check back in when it releases on steam or if EGS improves sufficiently?
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:47 AM
@Arq, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Arq said: So Steam have more features, cool. That's unfortunate that it doesn't help indie devs at all, maybe you should start being less egoistic about what you expect about a platform and start thinking about indie devs position. Why not complaining about steam taking higher percent from sales? Why not complaining about the store being flooded with **/plagiarism game that makes life harder for indie devs? Why not complaining about steam not helping indie devs at all? Because you just don't care about all of that, admit it.
Fli 02-Aug-19 04:47 AM
Yes it's literally impossible to add a shopping cart to a storefront as is evident by shopping carts not ever existing on storefronts at launch. This has never been seen in the history of man. Literally impossible.
Ryder 02-Aug-19 04:47 AM
The “12% is unsustainable” rumour got debunked by PC Gamer a while back and the Reddit thread it seems to have originated from was marked as misleading. https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-says-itll-eventually-stop-pushing-for-exclusives/ “We're operating a sound and lasting business on the basis of 12 percent, and we will not raise that rate. That's the fact of it.” - Tim Sweeney
"We're trying to socialize a new financial model for developers that they can thrive on," says Epic Game Store head.
ioio 02-Aug-19 04:47 AM
@Evey but can we at least agree on that that Epic does not really bother on improving their storefront? I mean they also admitted this so let's don't pretend that they not implemented nearly anything for it for nearly a year happens just because "it is hard to develop and money doesn't speed up the project"
Evey 02-Aug-19 04:48 AM
More developers literally doesn't make software magically appear on your plate. It still needs to have the time to actually, you know, be planned, designed and made. Planning is like >50% of a development cycle as it is
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 04:48 AM
Programming is not easy and nobody here has actually made that argument. But how about this, @DorkOrca : Origin Launched with comparable features to Steam. Multiple launchers have launched with feature sets comparable to Steam. Why does EGS get a pass?
☝ 2
Sinner 02-Aug-19 04:48 AM
How long does it take to program a thumbs up or thumbs down button to review.
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:49 AM
"you are entitled for expecting storefront to have shopping cart on launch" @Arq it helps indie developers by allowing them to be on storefront, unlike epic which only allows games with established following @Evey exactly, and features we are talking about have been implemented by all other storefronts before epic
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 04:49 AM
@Ryder well, i wouldn´t set in stone anything that tim sweeney or epic says. i remember the "we won´t do any metro exodus move again" and two days later they bought another exclusive. and tim on twitter says random things every day
ioio 02-Aug-19 04:49 AM
@Ryder the problem is that PC Gamer is basically an Epic shill site nowadays and Tim Sweeney says a thing one day and the exact opposite on the other day. Like when they promised that they won't remove games already existing on Steam from Steam then the next day they did so...
Rhubarbist 02-Aug-19 04:49 AM
See, this is exactly what people mean by 'entitled gamer manchildren'
Spooky 02-Aug-19 04:49 AM
hi im trans
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:50 AM
@Arq, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Arq said: @M.Zakky hahahahaha do you know how the storefront works ??? I got a friend who released a game on steam and he told me how that work, it's pure **.
Evey 02-Aug-19 04:50 AM
"Gamers aren't toxic!" shriek the people who are literally just here to argue all day and wait to get banned while having no intention of buying the game
⬆ 2
Coyeete 02-Aug-19 04:50 AM
@jckimrey I think you are misunderstanding me, there are legitimate things wrong with the EGS. Full stop, there is. To deny that is a little wasteful of typing energy. Their storefront is lacking and their UI needs a bunch of work in my opinion. What part of the whole buying process is inferior though? You buy a, to my knowledge, singleplayer game on a store that looks different and then you never have to interface with the store again except maybe to launch the game.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:50 AM
A long time, if you want it to mean anything and not be used by creeps to mass-downvote games and reduce their discoverability, as frequently happens with games on Steam that gamer bros take issue with, or YouTube with videos @Sinner (edited)
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 04:51 AM
@Rhubarbist lmao, yes, it certainly is entitled to point out logical fallacies presented by fanboys on this discord
GoGoGooey! 02-Aug-19 04:51 AM
Gamers are toxic I HATE GAMERSSSSS FUCK TRANNIES AAAA (edited)
Gudi 02-Aug-19 04:51 AM
@Evey except you act like the framework isn't already there lol. Cloud saves, shopping carts, regional pricing, etc. have existed, it's not some brand new thing you have to plan and construct from scratch. Epic devs are doing 100 hour work weeks on Fortnite, they don't care about the launcher cuz they just want market share from people playing Fortnite, not "hardcore" people.
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:51 AM
@iruma cece they are the same people who claim that steam is barebones but EGS is perfectly fine, they're literally brainwashed and it isn't even funny
ioio 02-Aug-19 04:51 AM
@Evey I don't see your point, if you are arguing on something you are "toxic"? That is new to me.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:51 AM
@Fiddlekins, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Fiddlekins said: @Evey > More developers literally doesn't make software magically appear on your plate. It still needs to have the time to actually, you know, be planned, designed and made. Planning is like >50% of a development cycle as it is Something like a storefront doesn't take long to plan and produce. On top of that it's been close to a year of EGS paying for exclusives and doing jackshit on their store - they could have easily fleshed it out with the time and money they've had available by now. Programming isn't hard, especially when it's a basic * store product rather than low level architecture
Fli 02-Aug-19 04:52 AM
"Gamers are toxic" scream the blinkered fans who can't understand why people would have a problem with a condescending attitude and want to lump everyone in the same boat so it's easier to argue against fabricated arguments that don't exist
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:52 AM
Does this server have staff who can handle the nobody who posted a slur orrr
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:52 AM
@Evey, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Evey said: If you're literally just here to kick up a stink without any plans to buy the game which someone literally just admitted to then yes you're god **** toxic lmao
Arq 02-Aug-19 04:52 AM
I love how people act like they know about what they talk while they just don't. I'm leaving it there, a day or two and they will be gone. Cya.
Rhubarbist 02-Aug-19 04:52 AM
And you're not brainwashed? You're just here getting mad that a couple of indie devs decided to release on a platform not of your choice? (edited)
Spooky 02-Aug-19 04:53 AM
i love trans people
GoGoGooey! 02-Aug-19 04:53 AM
Gamers always complain about little things... They're SO annoying! I NEED TO PLAY SOME FUCKING VIDEOGAMES FUCK CHINKS AAAAAA (edited)
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 04:53 AM
Actually, I was planning to buy this game, especially for my nephew, but I'd rather get him something else now.
nerdinclass 02-Aug-19 04:54 AM
@iruma cece i like my time at portia highly recommend and it's playable now (edited)
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:54 AM
If I start pirating games, will I be able to humiliate myself on the internet over a game I have no interest in too, @jckimrey ?
Bimbes McFly 02-Aug-19 04:55 AM
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门 (edited)
GoGoGooey! 02-Aug-19 04:55 AM
I think this game looks really good WHEN THE FUCK DOES BANJO COME OUT I FUCKING NEED BANJOOOO AAA (edited)
Gudi 02-Aug-19 04:55 AM
@Fiddlekins dude, don't do that. You'll just make people more aware of these condescending af devs, and they don't deserve that lmao
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 04:55 AM
sometimes the only way to convice someone if they are wrong are facts, not words. i think this is one of those situations were words can´t reach an agreement
Rhubarbist 02-Aug-19 04:55 AM
@iruma cece I'm sure your nephew will be devastated his creepy uncle wasn't able to play a specific indie game.
Spoose 02-Aug-19 04:56 AM
Personal attacks towards someone simply because they don't want to support developers that actively insult and demean them? You're sounding awfully toxic, friend.
Bimbes McFly 02-Aug-19 04:57 AM
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门 (edited)
GoGoGooey! 02-Aug-19 04:57 AM
Gamers are toxic! As he came into the Discord It was the sound of a shitlord He came into "her" blog He left the shitposts and a frog "She" ran underneath to dilate He could see "she" was overweight So "she" ran into resetera "She" was dabbed on, it was "her" stigma Tranny, are you ok? So, Tranny are you ok Are you ok, Tranny Tranny, are you ok? So, Tranny are you ok Are you ok, Tranny Tranny, are you ok? So, Tranny are you ok? Are you ok, Tranny? Tranny, are you ok? So, Tranny are you ok, are you ok Tranny? Tranny, are you ok? So, Tranny are you ok? Are you ok, Tranny? Tranny, are you ok? So, Tranny are you ok? Are you ok, Tranny? Tranny, are you ok? So, Tranny are you ok? Are you ok, Tranny? You've been dabbed on by You've been 40%'d by A based criminal (edited)
Maidanon 02-Aug-19 04:57 AM
So is this where we go to suck off Epic?
Gudi 02-Aug-19 04:57 AM
@JC_ADX words won't work because on one side we have people who care about privacy, security, and the industry while on the other side we have children using mommy's credit card
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 04:58 AM
@Rhubarbist no creepier than your obsession for defending the developers of an indie game against all potential slights. You don't get paid for this crappy PR work you're doing right now, do you?
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 04:58 AM
Alright, I think there's been enough banter and arguing for one night. Literally the same three or four points have been made hundreds of times over. I think we should all take a break for now. 😳 #BREAKTIME (edited)
Rhubarbist 02-Aug-19 04:58 AM
Hoo boy have I been roasted!
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 04:58 AM
Stop provoking and attacking people. This is enough. Arguing over and over is useless in this case. Points have been made. Take a break.
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 04:58 AM
this is designated shitposting channel why are you telling people to stop? (edited)
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:59 AM
No it isn't
Ryder 02-Aug-19 04:59 AM
@JC_ADX @ioio 🤷 Epic may change their minds later based off market realities. But I’m pointing out that claiming they already made a statement about doing so is not factually true.
Coyeete 02-Aug-19 04:59 AM
TBH, all I use the EGS for is to get free games every once in a while.
Bimbes McFly 02-Aug-19 05:00 AM
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo. (edited)
Fli 02-Aug-19 05:00 AM
@EmMyshuno You take a break, you seem to be the only one who's burning out rn
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 05:00 AM
It literally says "please be civil". If you have legitimate grief, I'd say, wait until the devs come back on send an email. Otherwise you are just wasting your time imo, navigating in a chat that gets flooded by trolls amongts legitimate concerns.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 05:01 AM
Aren't you all a little sore from having your ass pounded constantly by Epic Games and the devs of Ooblets? Let's #TAKEABREAK from this and just stop arguing for the night. It'll do you all some real good. (edited)
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:01 AM
The number of trolls who have come crawling out the woodwork has certainly adequately proved that the devs were right about the Gamers
⬆ 5
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:01 AM
yeppp
brokenKitKat 02-Aug-19 05:01 AM
One thing I would like to say is that, while the Epic Games Store is new and thus should not be blamed for the flaws. Does it really have the right to lack in features? The sale showed how it had limitations that basic testing would have solved it. Usability Testing is something basic and most companies do that to ensure their user interfaces and features actually make sense. The fact they pushed out a launcher with a storefront - before going through means to tackle these basic issues is a little unacceptable. And it shouldn't have any reason to not have a shopping cart. I like this game's idea, I'll get it on Steam once it goes there, maybe EGS if it actually gets better, but right now it's still in a questionable state. I'll admit to not using it much, but my brief usage of it felt terrible.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 05:01 AM
@Bones, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Bones said: i didnt * my cat. i didnt on my cat. i didnt put my **** anywhere near my cat. Ive never done anything weird with my cats. I promised myself i wasnt going to make apology videos after last years thing so im just trying to be as short and honest with this as possible. (1/?)
Spoose 02-Aug-19 05:02 AM
The devs themselves have hardly been civil whilst they actively attacked their consumers, so why should consumers be civil in response? Hostility is almost always met with hostility in the real world, and this is a perfect example of such.
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 05:02 AM
The devs literally rolled in here bragging about how ready they were to shitpost about gAmErS™, this is the discord they asked for. I'll be happy to keep roasting you, @Rhubarbist , maybe you can also make blanket accusations of harassment and racism like some of the other shills here. Throw in some healthy movement of the goalposts every time someone posts a valid criticism while you're at it.
Fli 02-Aug-19 05:03 AM
"The number of people who are defending epic games since Ooblets was announced certainly has adequately shown how many people are shills" wow look at my mental gymnastics. Luckily I don't believe that because lumping people together is dumb (edited)
Bimbes McFly 02-Aug-19 05:03 AM
silly gamer boys
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 05:03 AM
@brokenKitKat I'm convinced Epic isn't actually interested in having a functional store and it's just a tool for Galyonkin and Sweeney to cope with their grudge against Steam
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:04 AM
They targeted gamers. GAMERS.
troubleshot 02-Aug-19 05:04 AM
Folks, at this point I think its safe to say the internet was a HUGE mistake.
Maidanon 02-Aug-19 05:05 AM
He also noted, as many others have, that Steam was a "barely-functional mess" when it went live (which, believe me, is true), and that continued work on Epic's storefront "depends on the platform being worthwhile from a market-share perspective to keep going."
Can someone explain to me when corporations have EVER improved their services when they were getting plenty of money by being "good enough"?
brokenKitKat 02-Aug-19 05:06 AM
@M.Zakky It feels like it. These things should be addressed through prototypes before getting released, but these blatant flaws left there show a lack of actual care. They probably saved a few dollars from not doing any testing, and then lost as a less-than-functional application led to bad reputation (which doesn't help the already rotten rep they build themselves). (edited)
Spoose 02-Aug-19 05:06 AM
Steam makes more than enough money, yet they're still improving upon its platform. GOG is a solid competitor to Steam and is still making strides to improve its platform.
Maidanon 02-Aug-19 05:07 AM
Man, for someone trying to sell a videogame to people who play videogames, y'all seem to really hate people who play videogames.
Fli 02-Aug-19 05:07 AM
@Evey went from trying to have semi legitimate points, got debated but couldn't debate properly so has jumped into memeing in order to play a silly persona that removes all personal onus from her bad arguments. (edited)
Bimbes McFly 02-Aug-19 05:08 AM
https://tenor.com/view/minecraft-reddit-funny-gif-14138658?size=我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地将你的悲惨的屁股子。我将尽其所能地 (edited)
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 05:08 AM
I still can't understand how people can say with a straight face that "steam started off barebones" as an argument for why a launcher starts up well after Steam AND other competing launchers have, with a feature set that is barely better than the Nintendo eShop.
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:08 AM
I've stopped engaging because everyone here is arguing in bad faith including me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Also I'm a she
Noah 02-Aug-19 05:09 AM
https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/MBXEQgaGGAvm6IXpd93ALqHtY31tHLqA1wc8DbdUIHI/%3Fwidth%3D27%26height%3D29/https/images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/MtK8RBISVqgizixrXgUoHLYIaOc7LxylpyXqKIlG74g/%253Fwidth%253D33%2526height%253D35/https/images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/3qJsIIlDH1oyBafwifdZ35LvC1_C0uyHCg2nGjkxRr4/%25253Fwidth%25253D41%252526height%25253D43/https/images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/ePwzmrv7_IqtTsDOJfN4zhyK9x04RvBXyBlMe_GLTM8/%2525253Fwidth%2525253D51%25252526height%2525253D53/https/images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/CrOyUPyi4PY-SBsg3lR7c1D0Y4PBPGlEt-oD9EO9tqs/%252525253Fwidth%252525253D63%2525252526height%252525253D65/https/images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/v2UlOdSXdpvh-ySd6bPP73Oq98nKmvr-vAAmz2lEm3c/%25252525253Fwidth%25252525253D78%252525252526height%25252525253D81/https/images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/O1FzyZXy72L2Os77Lhc_EaT_wcH5Up69bF-g6_XDxYI/%2525252525253Fwidth%2525252525253D97%25252525252526height%2525252525253D101/https/images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/DGfIHYpIM0ZsD1hyUfznGz780KgGkzfJrtNxZuQbGCE/%252525252525253Fwidth%252525252525253D120%2525252525252526height%252525252525253D125/https/images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/Q33OW84DKCgtRI5rcZehKTqyGfRsjgDEB5dNdYsd9_k/%25252525252525253Fwidth%25252525252525253D149%252525252525252526height%25252525252525253D155/https/images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/S_YDfZ0scqfEcvmUu4rbWRzFIer-0n6Uio6dGPZv9Lk/%2525252525252525253Fwidth%2525252525252525253D185%25252525252525252526height%2525252525252525253D193/https/images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/ICf9NsvE61OSwM1ocYVlSjjy4J2nwy3tdXaIGVa9_tI/%252525252525252525253Fwidth%252525252525252525253D231%2525252525252525252526height%252525252525252525253D241/https/images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/DzgYTqjFs-B07s2XyP3wiJAlahWBo9-YOK2BsgDvgPU/https/i.redd.it/hqx7okmi64c11.gif
Rhubarbist 02-Aug-19 05:09 AM
Man, for people who claim to play videogames, y'all seem to really hate video games. It's funny how the people earlier who were arguing about "the tone" of the blogpost need only to come see the chat now to see what the devs meant.
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 05:10 AM
@jckimrey, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@jckimrey said: @Evey no wonder your * posting has been so bad. I can't remember the last grill that could * with the best of us. Our logs are just man-sized.
Spoose 02-Aug-19 05:10 AM
The fact that people think it's fair to compare current EGS to Steam in its infancy is honestly ridiculous, yeah. Steam has added so many things now that should become standard in any sort of games launcher/store, but it's become very clear that Epic doesn't care about doing anything that'd benefit consumers.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 05:11 AM
@Gudi, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Gudi said: "Gamers are BAD" I typed furiously as I let out my last trickle of urine into my *** jar. It's almost full, but that's ok, at least I can take out the trash for myself! It's getting quite full though, because I spent so much time making fun of those gosh darn gamers. Heh......gamers. Sometimes, when I'm good enough, I can just call my wife's boyfriend and he'll pick up some KFC when he gets back from work! I love Tendies! Maybe if I keep shilling for Epic, they'll one day give me a job! But that's enough dreaming. MLK Jr. didn't get anywhere by dreaming. Heh, I guess he did. *cracks knuckles Back to work.
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 05:11 AM
I dunno, I'm having a lot of fun with Three Houses right now, @Rhubarbist only seems to be playing Discord atm
Fli 02-Aug-19 05:11 AM
Your gender isn't really important to me, but I'll edit my post to accurately reflect it. I think you'll find there are a lot of people arguing in good faith too, but cherry picking trolls is not a good way to get your point across.
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 05:11 AM
"I disagree with the devs, so i'm gonna flood their server with slurs and copypastas"
Bimbes McFly 02-Aug-19 05:11 AM
this is what the typical ooblet supporter looks like http://is2.4chan.org/gif/1564640675523.gif (edited)
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:11 AM
"Your gender isn't important to me" is a pretty messed up thing to say when you misgender someone
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Evey 02-Aug-19 05:12 AM
I don't have a point to get across, besides maybe "If you're not going to buy the game anymore, you don't have to flounce about it". I'm mostly just witnessing the poo-poostorm to reinforce my opinions of gamers as terrible people
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Noah 02-Aug-19 05:12 AM
That's a lot of chocolate ice cream
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 05:13 AM
@Deadly Penguin ah yes, everyone has been flooding the channel with slurs and copypastas.
Gudi 02-Aug-19 05:13 AM
@Deadly Penguin how dare you, I made that copypasta myself @Evey "Gamers are BAD" I typed furiously as I let out my last trickle of urine into my jar. It's almost full, but that's ok, at least I can take out the trash for myself! It's getting quite full though, because I spent so much time making fun of those gosh darn gamers. Heh......gamers. Sometimes, when I'm good enough, I can just call my wife's boyfriend and he'll pick up some KFC when he gets back from work! I love Tendies! Maybe if I keep shilling for Epic, they'll one day give me a job! But that's enough dreaming. MLK Jr. didn't get anywhere by dreaming. Heh, I guess he did. cracks knuckles Back to work
Bimbes McFly 02-Aug-19 05:13 AM
I HATE NIGGERS, I HATE JEWS, I HATE SPICS AND ARABS TOO (edited)
Fli 02-Aug-19 05:13 AM
I didn't misgender her, I didn't know her gender. English isn't my first language and we used mainly masculine pronouns when we learned English so that tends to be my default cadence.
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:14 AM
I don't really care you called me a he lol i was just correcting you
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 05:14 AM
@DorkOrca ""Your gender isn't important to me" is a pretty messed up thing to say when you misgender someone" are you stupid? it's not misgendering when you literally don't know that person and it's first time you were corrected people aren't psychics
GoGoGooey! 02-Aug-19 05:15 AM
Spoose 02-Aug-19 05:15 AM
Who cares? Your gender has no bearing in a debate.
Fuuji 02-Aug-19 05:16 AM
lol sadpanda is back loli is based and trannies are subhumans HAHAHAHA OH NONONONO LOOK AT THE SUICIDE RATES HAHAHAHA TWINKLE TWINKLE STAR TRANNY TRANNY TRANNY? LOOKING IN THE MIRROR YOUR HAIR LEAVES YOUR HEAD YOUR VOICE GETS RASPIER "I AM A WOMAN!" YOU REPEAT YOURSELF "YOU'RE A MAN, END ME NOW", YOUR BRAIN RESPONDS http://is2.4chan.org/v/1564737264769.png (edited)
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:16 AM
It's still misgendering when you arbitrarily and incorrectly assign a gender to someone, no matter if it was the first time or not 👀
Bimbes McFly 02-Aug-19 05:16 AM
caring about misgendering is for silly soycucks and faggot queers (edited)
Gudi 02-Aug-19 05:16 AM
Y'all are derailing from the real issues. Why GAMERS shouldn't deserve rights. Heh, I play games but I'm not like one of those GAMERS. @Fuuji WAIT SADPANDA IS BACK?
brokenKitKat 02-Aug-19 05:16 AM
as much as I'm against Epic, yikes does this place show that there is a lack of civility
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:16 AM
a) I'm not debating b) I literally only corrected as a footnote c) Wow it's amazing how mad some people will get over me being female
GoGoGooey! 02-Aug-19 05:17 AM
Epic developers <3 http://is2.4chan.org/gif/1563836047416.gif (edited)
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 05:18 AM
@Fuuji, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Fuuji said: @Gudi ITS * BACK
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:18 AM
they, not he @jckimrey
Fli 02-Aug-19 05:18 AM
Do you want me to apologise about using the wrong pronoun? I didn't think it was that big of a deal but if it's really that much a problem to everyone I will apologise. Like I said, English isn't my first language so sometimes I make mistakes in the way that I type (especially when I'm doing other things at the same time) Learning a second language is hard when your first language doesn't follow similar rules
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 05:18 AM
who is mad? people are just baffled with the whole "misgendering" thing
Gudi 02-Aug-19 05:18 AM
Also y'all, I'm against Epic as much as you, but attacking the person instead of their arguments puts us all in a bad position
Bimbes McFly 02-Aug-19 05:18 AM
WHERE IS MY THUMBNAIL (edited)
CommradeWolfie 02-Aug-19 05:19 AM
can you chill on the posting of people getting killed
brokenKitKat 02-Aug-19 05:19 AM
pass this down to whoever can modify the channels, best disable embedded links for the common roleless person, shock gifs and the such
GoGoGooey! 02-Aug-19 05:20 AM
Epic GOOD MOOOOOOOORNING /v/! Just wanted to remind you that we’re another day closer to Steve (yes, THE Steve from Minecraft) getting confirmed in Smash Ultimate! Make sure to save your tears for the upcoming Fighter Pass when Steve walks into the spotlight! >H-HAH! VIRGINBEN SAID THE TOPDOWN WASN’T LINK’S AWAKENING! HE WAS FINALLY WRONG! STEVE ISN’T IN SMASH!!!!! “No!” Yikes! That’s a large assumption. How can one “questionable” prediction instantly invalidate a history of success? Unlike your “Grinch leak” Banjocucks, Steve has a lot more distribution among other leakers. Ever heard of Hitagi, 7chan, and 5channel? And while you’re busy obsessing over Vergeben, care to explain how the topdown remake Vergeben predicted was exactly the title he said wouldn’t be featured? Seems a bit suspicious if you ask me, but feel free to continue your denial. Your tears of disappointment will be all the more sweeter! good moOOOOOOORNING /v/! Just wanted to remind you that we’re another day closer to Steve (yes, THE Steve from Minecraft) getting confirmed in Smash Ultimate! Make sure to save your tears for the upcoming Fighter Pass when Steve walks into the spotlight! >b-but Banjo has a good history with Nintendo! He’s gotta be in! “No!” Sorry Banjo fags, but the Microsoft rep is taken by yours truly! Why would Nintendo choose a dead character over the marketing potential of the highest grossing game of the 21st century? The DLC characters have also been confirmed to be “surprising” according to the developers, so I’m afraid your years of crying for Banjo are going to be subverted once again with the reveal of our favorite underdog! But feel free to continue your denial. Your tears of disappointment will be all the more sweeter! https://i1.yuki.la/0/e4/a915becc2a87297e2ec5fbdd7afb4e3c8925bcb33a4ce2b811f4d99911910e40.gif (edited)
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:20 AM
I don't care so an apology isn't necessary but you can certainly see that people are freaking out that I corrected you lol, I never intended it to be a big deal ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 05:21 AM
@Bones, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Bones said: Epic GOOD MOOOOOOOORNING /v/! Just wanted to remind you that we’re another day closer to Steve (yes, THE Steve from Minecraft) getting confirmed in Smash Ultimate! Make sure to save your tears for the upcoming Fighter Pass when Steve walks into the spotlight! >H-HAH! VIRGINBEN SAID THE TOPDOWN WASN’T LINK’S AWAKENING! HE WAS FINALLY WRONG! STEVE ISN’T IN SMASH!!!!! “No!” Yikes! That’s a large assumption. How can one “questionable” prediction instantly invalidate a history of success? Unlike your “Grinch leak” Banjocucks, Steve has a lot more distribution among other leakers. Ever heard of Hitagi, 7chan, and 5channel? And while you’re busy obsessing over Vergeben, care to explain how the topdown remake Vergeben predicted was exactly the title he said wouldn’t be featured? Seems a bit suspicious if you ask me, but feel free to continue your denial. Your tears of disappointment will be all the more sweeter! good moOOOOOOORNING /v/! Just wanted to remind you that we’re another day closer to Steve (yes, THE Steve from Minecraft) getting confirmed in Smash Ultimate! Make sure to save your tears for the upcoming Fighter Pass when Steve walks into the spotlight! >b-but Banjo has a good history with Nintendo! He’s gotta be in! “No!” Sorry Banjo ****, but the Microsoft rep is taken by yours truly! Why would Nintendo choose a dead character over the marketing potential of the highest grossing game of the 21st century? The DLC characters have also been confirmed to be “surprising” according to the developers, so I’m afraid your years of crying for Banjo are going to be subverted once again with the reveal of our favorite underdog! But feel free to continue your denial. Your tears of disappointment will be all the more sweeter! https://i1.yuki.la/0/e4/a915becc2a87297e2ec5fbdd7afb4e3c8925bcb33a4ce2b811f4d99911910e40.gif
Gudi 02-Aug-19 05:21 AM
@Fuuji I WANT A SAUCE THIS INSTANT
Spoose 02-Aug-19 05:21 AM
Clearly this is the best way for your moderation bot to operate.
tengblad 02-Aug-19 05:22 AM
The bot re-posting the blocked messages doesn't seem like a good choice... 😓
Fuuji 02-Aug-19 05:22 AM
just try to enter sadpanda, it works, unsure if its temporal or what, havent been kept up to date but tenboro did say he was looking into different options
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:22 AM
rowleyy I have no idea what point you are trying to make, you seem to be attributing offense to me where there is none lmao
HannahFBG 02-Aug-19 05:23 AM
cor blimey this channel is a cesspit this morning!
GoGoGooey! 02-Aug-19 05:23 AM
Epic devs! <3 DUHHH CIRNGE!!!! DUHHH BRINGE!!???!!1 CRINGE!!!!! IS THAT ALL YOU SHITPOSTING FUCKS CAN SAY!!??? DURR BASED BASED BASED CRINGE CRINGE BASED BASED CRINGE CRINGE CRINGE BASED CRINGE I FEEL LIKE IM IN A FUCKING ASYLUM FULL OF DEMENTIA RIDDEN OLD PEOPLE THAT CAN DO NOTHING BUT REPEAT THE SAME FUCKING WORDS ON LOOP LIKE A FUCKING BROKEN RECORD CRINGE CRINGE CRINGE BASED BASED CRINGE ONIONS ONIONS ONIONS SNOYY ONIONS LOL ONIONS!!! CRINGE!!!1 BOOMER!! LE ZOOMER!!!! I AM BOOMER!!!! NO ZOOM ZOOM ZOOMIES ZOOMER GOING ZOOMIES AHGHGH I FUCKING HATE THE INTERNET SO GODDAMN MUCH FUCKJK YOU SHITPOST I HONEST TO GOD HOPE YOUR MOTHER CHOKES ON HER OWN FECES IN HELL YOU COCKSUCKER VUT OHHH I KNOWM MY POST IS CRINGE ISNT IT?? CRINGE CRINGE CRINGR CRINGEY BASED CRINGE BASED REDDIT REDDIT CRINGE ZOOM CRINGE ONIONS REDDIT BASED BASED!!!!!! https://youtu.be/JdnBV-S-RXk (edited)
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:23 AM
Actually, singular they is correct grammar and has been for like... a century? Thanks for showing what kinda dumpster dude you are though?
Fli 02-Aug-19 05:23 AM
I can't be bothered to debate this when edgelords are just posting shock content. When it's cooled down and mods are online I'll come back.
Penndragon 02-Aug-19 05:23 AM
Hey for real, how much is Epic paying you guys
RayanJenkins 02-Aug-19 05:24 AM
None of our business.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 05:24 AM
@Bones, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Bones said: Epic devs! <3 DUHHH CIRNGE!!!! DUHHH BRINGE!!???!!1 CRINGE!!!!! IS THAT ALL YOU SHITPOSTING FUCKS CAN SAY!!??? DURR BASED BASED BASED CRINGE CRINGE BASED BASED CRINGE CRINGE CRINGE BASED CRINGE I FEEL LIKE IM IN A * ASYLUM FULL OF DEMENTIA RIDDEN OLD PEOPLE THAT CAN DO NOTHING BUT REPEAT THE SAME * WORDS ON LOOP LIKE A * BROKEN RECORD CRINGE CRINGE CRINGE BASED BASED CRINGE ONIONS ONIONS ONIONS SNOYY ONIONS LOL ONIONS!!! CRINGE!!!1 BOOMER!! LE ZOOMER!!!! I AM BOOMER!!!! NO ZOOM ZOOM ZOOMIES ZOOMER GOING ZOOMIES AHGHGH I * HATE THE INTERNET SO * MUCH FUCKJK YOU SHITPOST I HONEST TO GOD HOPE YOUR MOTHER CHOKES ON HER OWN FECES IN * YOU * VUT OHHH I KNOWM MY POST IS CRINGE ISNT IT?? CRINGE CRINGE CRINGR CRINGEY BASED CRINGE BASED REDDIT REDDIT CRINGE ZOOM CRINGE ONIONS REDDIT BASED BASED!!!!!! https://youtu.be/JdnBV-S-RXk
Spoose 02-Aug-19 05:24 AM
What's the point of even debating it? Neither side will back down, and the EGS defense squad especially will never accept the fact that people might have valid arguments against using it.
Gudi 02-Aug-19 05:24 AM
@Fuuji do you know if they're still using Netherlands as the server
brokenKitKat 02-Aug-19 05:25 AM
I'm not using EGS until it becomes a respectably usable launcher. If people can't accept that, I mean, okay?
GoGoGooey! 02-Aug-19 05:25 AM
Epiccc! AHH LE NOT MAINING MEMe :) le charlie epic random wildcard fake vidya xd tv/ editon ;^^^) gentleman :---) XD D LOL O [YouTube] Epic sax guy 10 hours (embed) [Embed] [Embed] [YouTube] Epic sax guy 10 hours (embed) [Embed] [Embed] [YouTube] Epic sax guy 10 hours (embed) [Embed] [Embed] ] PIZZA ROLLS r DONE!!! le epic so ebin dae le epin win xD pwn’d ftw le bacon narwhale xP unsheathes katana wellllllllll m’goodsir, I think u thought u had me beat, but wacht this !!!! charges up energy goes super sainant farts raises paw hhmmmmmmmmm....... XD NINJAS RAWR PIE CAKE IS A LIE XDDD xD xD [YouTube] eiffel65 im blue 10 hours (embed) [Embed] [Embed] AYYLMSOOOO Y YY YY Y YY Y Y L M A OAYYYYLMAO le epic so ebin dae le epin win xD pwn’d ftw le bacon narwhale xP le epin troll i coax youed int o al e ruxze xD D D tfw no gf xD ayy lmao! :p >>>/y/o>>>/lgbt/isten>>>/u/p>>>/h/eres>>>/a/>>>/s/tory>>>/a/bout>>>/a/>>>/lgbt/ittle>>>/g/uy>>>/t/hat>>>/lgbt/ives>>>/i/n>>>/f/eelings>>>/t/hat>>>/lgbt/ive>>>/i/nside>>>/m/e>>>/i/m>>>/b/lue>>> upboated good sir i tip my fedora to you, fine gentlemen le real men have class xD real human bean!!1 dae cake is a lie lel epic fail!!!!!!!! ;p for YOU!! :DDD XD we r :) A Y A O AYY LMAO HE E epic simply epic :^) i tip my hat to u sir tips fedora lol cool 1 bro i almost piss mystlelf in lafter xD gud joke man ##wreckt my sides r in space :) >le maymay arrow is this a le new epic meme? screen kapped for dat sweet karma xD. FUS ROH DAH!!!!!1 i used to be a christmas but then i took an arrow 2 da knee :^( BAZINGA BAZINGA ZIMBABWE. top kek, toppest of keks. le rick from pawn stars? hahahaha le mayonaise fucking epic ass meme https://youtu.be/Du-aWzRyjRA (edited)
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M.- The transgender woman at the center of a viral video is speaking out after she claims she was mistreated by an employee of an Albuquerque ...
Fuuji 02-Aug-19 05:25 AM
I think they moved, thats what tenboro said he was looking into that, either that or make a read only version. Anyways good night and remember trans people arent human
tuvie 02-Aug-19 05:25 AM
@Spoose u right
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:26 AM
Though singular 'they' is old, 'they' as a nonbinary pronoun is new—and useful
Penndragon 02-Aug-19 05:26 AM
Like unironically, no trolling, how much is Epic paying you guys for exclusivity? I'm trying to figure out for an article I've been working on about how EGS might benefit smaller devs by bringing further funding in.
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 05:26 AM
the only answer they can give you due to NDAs is "enough"
Gudi 02-Aug-19 05:26 AM
@Penndragon I think another small indie game got like a few million, so you can assume they got around the same
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 05:27 AM
@M.Zakky, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@M.Zakky said: what's the point of restricting roleless users from posting links if you can say "****" and bot will repost it for you https://imgur.com/XSEFNQA @Penndragon they buy hundreds of thousands of copies so at the very least $2kk, likely much more
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:28 AM
Ironic that the shockposters have actually finally cleaned this place up, hopefully those who have nothing further to add to this discord will see themselves out in good time
brokenKitKat 02-Aug-19 05:28 AM
@Penndragon Whatever it seems to be, it tends to be a fair amount to be good and not need any other funding, at least can be assumed https://i.imgur.com/RalOSV2.png (edited)
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 05:29 AM
@Penndragon, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Penndragon said: @Gudi That's insane. I figure that's gotta be enough to **** any of their patrons outside the US though. Or at least whatever currencies don't work on EGS. @M.Zakky#4590 Epic pays devs a non-specific amount to make their game EGS exclusive for a year. I don't mean on sales, I mean that amount. @jckimrey He's trolling you, ignore him.
troubleshot 02-Aug-19 05:29 AM
@brokenKitKat Is that a real quote from @perplamps ?
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:29 AM
That was literally an article from Merriam-Webster but ok
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 05:29 AM
wtf happened here
Sinner 02-Aug-19 05:30 AM
Videogames @EnforcerKiller
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:30 AM
I'm not leaving, cause... I like this game and am interested in engaging with it further. Why would I leave the discord for a game I like and want to play?
brokenKitKat 02-Aug-19 05:30 AM
not anymore, it's a questionable source now then, i'll remove that link, OR I'M BLIND (edited)
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 05:30 AM
@troubleshot yes just use search function it's here https://i.imgur.com/htC3f6p.png
DeGrail 02-Aug-19 05:31 AM
Why is everybody so angry?
Penndragon 02-Aug-19 05:31 AM
I mean, it looks neat, but if they're putting it on EGS I'm not buying it. I know plenty who won't, but I mean... if Epic is paying them at least a million to put the game on their store, that offsets the cost of lost sales I guess? It's dumb. It's Epic throwing around their money to give their platform some sense of individuality by bribing devs. and I'm pretty disappointed that @perplamps and @nonplayercat would take that bribe.
Sinner 02-Aug-19 05:32 AM
When is Tencent going to start offering free psychological counseling to anyone who takes their deals?
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:32 AM
"That's an appeal to authority" "Ask ANY English professor. In fact I'll talk to one tomorrow." dude......................
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:32 AM
You literally said "ask any English professor", is that not an appeal to authority fallacy? 👀
Orobeast 02-Aug-19 05:33 AM
"Ask any [insert well-educated person with a relevant degree here]" Yes, totally an appeal to authority.
troubleshot 02-Aug-19 05:33 AM
@brokenKitKat it does show up in the search, so looks legit. Thanks @M.Zakky you're right, its right there in search.
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:34 AM
That is literally what an appeal to authority is, yes. Rowleyy I have plenty to add to this discord once this discussion is over lol (edited)
RayMn 02-Aug-19 05:34 AM
@DeGrail are you an EPIC gamer that likes EPIC stores?
DeGrail 02-Aug-19 05:34 AM
Guys, epic payed that upfront so you could not feel bad about I dunno, getting game for free somewhere else? Devs are covered up here (edited)
Penndragon 02-Aug-19 05:35 AM
Anyway I'm leaving because this chat is dumb and arguing trans stuff for some reason...? If you buy the game, you're supporting Epic more than you are the devs and Epic is shady as heck, just keep that in mind kids
Sinner 02-Aug-19 05:35 AM
You are the only one ive seen mentioning trans stuff.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:35 AM
What lmao You cited vague "English professors" I linked a big ol article with meaningful, valuable content with multiple links to more historical info If that's not enough, here's the other dictionary people with more history? https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/
OED ambassador Prof Dennis Baron turns to the OED to provide a brief history of the singular 'they' - from the 14th century to present day:
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:36 AM
Interesting Penndragon came in here literally lying about writing an article when obviously they just wanted to complain some more under false pretences
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 05:36 AM
@DorkOrca why are you even bothering? they don't care, they just came here to raid
DeGrail 02-Aug-19 05:36 AM
Good guy EPIC saves you money and pays devs upfront and somehow this is reason to be upset?
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:37 AM
Imagine hating trans people so much you need to find an academic source that lets you misgender them 👀
Gudi 02-Aug-19 05:38 AM
Epic shills have to redirect the discussion to some bs argument about a word to make sure people don't realize that the EGS is barebones, has no features, harms the industry, violates the GDPR, and has lackluster security that uses the same 2FA token for 30 minutes
Nana 02-Aug-19 05:39 AM
Why even care if people will play your game at all when good guy epic assure your money amirite 👀
Spoose 02-Aug-19 05:39 AM
I somehow doubt they put that much thought into it. If anything, chimping out at people over the smallest things is normal for them.
brokenKitKat 02-Aug-19 05:39 AM
wait, a 2FA token that lasts 30 minutes? and I thought 30 seconds felt too much
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:40 AM
If I were in their position then yeah, I wouldn't have to worry so much about how many people end up buying and playing the game. I can focus instead on ensuring the enjoyment of the people that do
Sinner 02-Aug-19 05:41 AM
Yea, it'd be better if nobody bought the game, then I could focus on making a perfect infinite experience.
Gudi 02-Aug-19 05:41 AM
@brokenKitKat yea, it's absolutely absurd. I work in cybersecurity so I'm like even more mad about it. Also as for the violating the GDPR, a guy in the EU requested his personal information from Epic (which companies are legally required to follow in the EU), and Epic sent his personal information to some other random dude.
Fli 02-Aug-19 05:41 AM
Isn't that a ridiculously short sighted mindset?
RayMn 02-Aug-19 05:41 AM
@Fli I thought you said you weren't gonna be here
Nana 02-Aug-19 05:41 AM
So why make games at all. Why not work for the government then? As a salaried worker whatever. Why work creatively? If only money matters. Im a indie developer myself
Noah 02-Aug-19 05:42 AM
Instead of giving people the option of choice, pigeonhole them into a application that has had multiple security breaches. I'm sure they really care about who plays their game now.
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:42 AM
Because they enjoy making games that people enjoy playing? They just don't have to worry about the logistics of it. At its core it's not the quantity of sales that matters it's the quality of the thing you make. Don't people hate it more when devs have to sacrifice their artistic vision to ensure the game sells more copies?
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:43 AM
People need money to live, and they need even more money to develop quality games @Nana
brokenKitKat 02-Aug-19 05:43 AM
@Gudi I'm aware of everything else, though the 2FA duration is another point into the bucket of why people should stay away from it for the meantime
M.Zakky 02-Aug-19 05:43 AM
@Noah EGS doesn't allow non-exclusivity for indie games so it was either EGS either any other store https://twitter.com/glassbottommeg/status/1156313931285057536
Interesting tidbit: Epic doesn't want SkateBIRD. They say they're focusing on exclusives, and SkateBIRD promised Steam keys in its KS, therefore, nah. I suppose that may change by our launch, but it seemed like an interesting data point anyways.
Likes
414
Fli 02-Aug-19 05:43 AM
The shockposters stopped so I came back in. Do I have to leave for a designated amount of time when I say I'll be back later? 2fa for 30 minutes boggles my mind. The company I work for had a bug so the 2fa key was lasting 10 minutes and the IT guys literally were rushed in to fix it because it was considered that much of a security risk
Gudi 02-Aug-19 05:44 AM
I'm sure every Epic shill has me muted because none of them are responding to my valid complaints about the store. Listen, if you want to say "I don't care about security, privacy, or my credit card information" that's fine, but do us all a favor and straight up admit it so we can save some time.
Nana 02-Aug-19 05:44 AM
It just doesnt matter if people play at all. Money is guaranteed. This logic of theirs is bizarre. Its not about logistics. One thing is getting money to develop your game off crowdfunding, which i actively did for my game with a successful campaign. Another thing completely is saying what they did on their post that was basically "it doesnt matter if people play the game were guaranteed here", if it doesnt matter ehy make games?
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:45 AM
It doesn't matter but obviously they'd like people to play and enjoy it. Which as is obvious, plenty of people still intend to, just less than before
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 05:46 AM
@DeGrail, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@DeGrail said: You guys don't get it about "creative work". You see there are 2 types of creative work: 1. When you do something for the people. For the players. It's one thing. In that case you will care about "how much ppl will play my game"? 2. You do it for yourself. You don't care about players really. To **** with them, they don't get me anyway. I'm probably smarter or smthn. In that case you STILL CARE about MONEY but don't really care about SOURCE of this money. Here. Now you know more
Sinner 02-Aug-19 05:46 AM
Yeah, where as before they had thousands of people paying to make sure they could work on this game, now only tim needs to pay, and only 12% of the market will play it!
Nana 02-Aug-19 05:46 AM
Exactly @Sinner LOL
Gudi 02-Aug-19 05:46 AM
@Evey definitely muted me LMFAOOOO. Can't handle an actual argument, huh? Where are the other shills at, or is Evey the only one?
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:46 AM
I don't even think it's that much less people than before - Ooblets has gotten a lot of attention on social media from other indie devs who support their decision, bringing their audiences' attention with them
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:47 AM
Uhhh creatives... literally always make stuff for themselves. That's the whole thing of "Creative vision". I wouldn't make a game I didn't want to make, I wouldn't make one that I was literally only making to please my customers. That'd suck.
Nana 02-Aug-19 05:48 AM
I do it for myself you can be sure of it. But even so i would like people to plsy my game and have fun with it. I would never actively say anything along the lines of "it doesnt matter how many people play it i got the munie". I am here developing a game for myself that i would love people to play. Its not the purpose, but having many people play your game should at least make developers happy, dont you think? What i see here are people that are happy about money only. It doesnt matter if anyone plays. It doesnt cause anything to them.
Sinner 02-Aug-19 05:49 AM
@DorkOrca Yeah, im sure bustling new community of people is itching to play on epic games now! They'll be here any minute now, and the thousands of people joining who think it's a bad idea are just some fluke.
Fli 02-Aug-19 05:49 AM
Most people aren't enthusiasts (especially over a small indie like this) so the majority of people would come from store browsing in my experience. Epic has an advantage in the fact that it's super curated and Ooblets will show up prominently due to a lack of games on the platform, but conversely the userbase is mostly Fortnite players who's interests generally won't line up with this type of game. Steam has an advantage in that it has a huge eclectic userbase and is more likely to find a large audience for niche indies like this.
DeGrail 02-Aug-19 05:49 AM
You guys don't get it about "creative work". You see there are 2 types of creative work: 1. When you do something for the people. For the players. It's one thing. In that case you will care about "how much ppl will play my game"? 2. You do it for yourself. You don't care about players really. To *ell with them, they don't get me anyway! I'm probably smarter or smthn. In that case you STILL CARE about MONEY but don't really care about SOURCE of this money. Here. Now you know more.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:49 AM
@Rowleyy ooblets will suffer from minimal sales just like satisfactory, I'm sure @Sinner that's how outrage culture works - people who don't care much about ooblets but do love hating on EG join en masse and rant about how much they hate EG it's been happening all day, it's still happening lmao (edited)
RayMn 02-Aug-19 05:50 AM
🚪 🏃 imma head out, enjoy using spyware
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:51 AM
It's funny how easily people will flip between "You shouldn't pander to potential customers, make the game that YOU want to make!" and then "No not like that make the game that I want" They're making the game they want and clearly plenty of people still intend to play and enjoy it. Clearly they thought the sacrifice of some other potential customers was worth not having to worry about how much they're going to make. It's a decent middle ground between "Making the game you want but get no money" and "Make the game literally just for money"
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:51 AM
Satisfactory sales have been, er, more than satisfactory
Nana 02-Aug-19 05:52 AM
Its not some other, its most of their fanbase and their integrity being thrown in the window in the process lol
Sinner 02-Aug-19 05:52 AM
Selling out to a chinese company with strict censorship codes isn't really the same thing as "making the game you want to make." @Evey EGS self reports, and buys the game copies themselves. So, not very reliable. @DorkOrca
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:53 AM
"Most of" is a bit of an assumption on your part though isn't it? I think on the whole their numbers are still looking pretty good
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:53 AM
Someone doesn't understand how guaranteed sales works unrelated but I just booted up my switch and the last game played was fortnite, topical lmao
Nana 02-Aug-19 05:54 AM
They would get money on steam. What kind of bizarre logic is this? They selling on steam, the game would be a success there. They had a huge fanbase. But they still wanted more "guarantees" oh well. Anyone from countries that arent US cant buy the game now if they dont have a dedicated international card. Which a lot of people dont. So the US is their whole fanbase, then?
Sinner 02-Aug-19 05:54 AM
We have no idea how Guarenteed sales work, Epic games has paid to make sure we don't, and since they SELF REPORT, we won't know till these contracts for silence run out.
Catweasel 02-Aug-19 05:54 AM
metro exodus has done so badly a ceo of thq nordic has publically complained
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 05:55 AM
@Evey I dont think that most people who are here cause of the anti-epic hate are majorly concerned about the artistic vision of the game being made, but I agree with your arguments being made
Fli 02-Aug-19 05:55 AM
Let's break down the 500,000 sales figure. A company (unknown at the time) managed to sell over 1m copies of their game (goat sim) over 4 months, come out with a second game and sell 500k copies over 4 months. This is a drop of half for a company who now has renown. I'm not sure you should be looking at 500k sales on its own merits and rather looking at it compared to the first title they sold
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:56 AM
@Sinner this was the developers of Satisfactory who reported their sales numbers, actually @Fli goat simulator was viral because pewdiepie played it, you goofball (edited)
Sinner 02-Aug-19 05:57 AM
@DorkOrca The devs are under contract to say exactly what egs wants them to say, regardless of context or content. If EGS buys 300,000 games. Then "those games were sold" isn't a lie. But lets go further, what if EGS doesn't even show developers WHO bought their games (or how many games EGS itself bought)
Catweasel 02-Aug-19 05:57 AM
people not buying the game by the goat sim devs is probably more on what goat sim was than the marketplace
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:57 AM
I've not said a word about EGS for hours lmao, I'm just supporting the devs' decision. I don't think they had much guaranteed income, people keep pointing to the patreon but as far as we know they might only have been making 1500-3000 a month which is not at all enough to support two people. We really don't know how well they might have done on steam and clearly they weren't sure themselves. This is just one fear they can put to bed now and it being stressful enough making a game with an existing fanbase, I can't blame them for taking that. Life's stressful enough as it is
Fli 02-Aug-19 05:57 AM
So you're saying none of the viral appeal improved Coffee Stains brand image or discoverability? That we should look at the 500k sales in a complete vacuum?
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 05:58 AM
You're going to have to prove that the satisfactory devs are lying about sales numbers, that's a huge and really dubious claim lmao @Sinner Like conspiracy theory level (edited)
Nana 02-Aug-19 05:59 AM
They have a studio to work on the game. Ofc it was enough to support them. I work in my home because i dont have the money to rent a studio. They had that. Dont talk like they didnt have any money at all. Poor developers are the guys from kingdoms of the dump that literally worked cleaning floors as janitors to produce the game.
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 05:59 AM
You really seem to have way too many of those oddly specific pics at your disposal
Sinner 02-Aug-19 05:59 AM
@DorkOrca I never said they lied, I said that EGS controls the "sales" and is paying to purchase a minimum of games. If they are willing to buy 100,000 games to start with, I don't see why they wouldn't be willing to buy that same number to make a game a "super success" story.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 06:02 AM
Satisfactory isn't a shooter, it's a factory building game lol. And it doesn't need to sell better- the devs already said EG matched their sales predictions in guaranteed sales so now they can just focus on making it the most fun, they don't have to worry about sales or mass appeal or w/e @Rowleyy @Sinner Guaranteed sales don't go into the sales numbers, guaranteed sales are just a set amount of copies EG price matches for and pays devs for ahead of time Actual sales numbers are determined by the amount of people who buy the game, not the amount of money EG gave them - they don't just buy copies, they pay the devs ahead of time and keep the profits for the sales up until their guaranteed sales amount is met Learn more about basic econ
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:03 AM
$3000 a month is nowhere near enough to support two people working on a game. That's just... wrong. This is meeting the fans halfway. They're making the game the fans wanted this way, without having to worry about money isues. They don't have to sacrifice quality for any reason now, if people decide not to buy it well, that's their decision and again, won't affect them.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 06:03 AM
@Nana, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Nana said: They literally had a STUDIO lol they had enough money to support themselves @Evey i would be * happy if i had a studio
@Fiddlekins, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Fiddlekins said: @Evey 1. You've talked about EGS repeatedly over the past hour 2. First thing I said was that I don't object to devs taking the EGS buyout. Money now almost always beats maybe money later even if there aren't other pressing financial concerns. I then went on to explain what I do take issue with - the fact the ooblet devs felt the need to turn go on to try and tell everyone that EGS is actually god's gift to mankind and that everyone who doesn't like it is an entitled toxic gamer. If you're going to * your consumers over for selfish reasons at least have the courtesy to not pretend you're doing them a favour and insult them when they call your * out.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 06:05 AM
Studio doesn't mean what you think it means, Nana - again, they're still two people who make just $3000 between the both of them for their full-time work on Ooblets, that's just $18k a year per person, which is ridiculously small for technical work like programming, 3D modeling, rigging, animating, etc (edited)
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:05 AM
That's a shame for you then I guess, it shouldn't have to be a point of pride to work in minimalist frugal conditions. Now they can work in a studio for the whole of development, I feel happy for them!
Fli 02-Aug-19 06:07 AM
Designing a game only to be made for the people who are: 1. Aware of it 2. Are invested in it Is an incredibly short sighted way to do game dev.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 06:07 AM
@jckimrey mistyped, $18k is still so little money for someone in dev it's depressing
Nana 02-Aug-19 06:07 AM
Point of pride lol im just saying they had enough money to rent an apartment and a studio? I work from home, how is that any frugal at all. They cant work now on a studio, they were already working in a studio with patreon money
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:08 AM
lol are you people still at it
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:08 AM
Well now they can put more money into marketing to make MORE people aware & invested in it... who is gonna buy a game they're not aware of?
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:08 AM
the "they can live off patreon" debate is really something else, I gotta say
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 06:08 AM
the situation was dying until people came here posting shock images and the like
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:09 AM
@Fiddlekins "don't raise money to make a game if you don't have money to make a game" - gamer logic
AnuBius 02-Aug-19 06:09 AM
yes @Fiddlekins if you cant achieve something right away, just give up. never try. dont overcome obstacles.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:09 AM
seriously how do some of you people tie your shoes
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:10 AM
@perplamps Same way you do, I ask tencent for the money.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 06:10 AM
There were a lot of people posting really bad content earlier, I can send some of the @s if you want
Fli 02-Aug-19 06:10 AM
"Are we still at it" Yes we're still at being disappointed in your attitude towards people who legitimately were excited to play something (you surely put love into) Don't you feel a bit disappointed that a ton of people now feel alienated by your attitude?
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:10 AM
only rich people should make games is the lesson I've learned
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:11 AM
@Fli i definitely feel disappointed in you
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 06:11 AM
man, are you really gonna keep using the word "gamer" to define everyone that disagrees with you?, that's a bit trite isn't it?, if you want to focus on the bad takes some people have, don't do it by generalizing a whole group of people that have nothing to do with it
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:11 AM
didn't mince the words enough i guess
if you have arguments to make, please make them. personal attacks, racist slurs, shock images, and spam won't fly here
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:12 AM
You can't go around generalising gamers, they're the most oppressed minority 😩
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:12 AM
I'm really sorry that nobody's ever stood up to your angry hate mob before and that's bothersome to you, but life is full of small inconveniences
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:13 AM
What did EGS promise you in terms of actual monetary. Are you allowed to say that? Serious question.
AnuBius 02-Aug-19 06:13 AM
@Deadly Penguin the (meme) defintion of "gamer" in this case doesnt mean people that play games, but the entitled "gamers rise up" and muh everythign has to go my way and no dev knows what hes doing kind of people
👆 1
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 06:13 AM
Came to say I'll be supporting you guys and buying the game on EGS, nothin but love from me. Also glad you guys get to make the game you want without having to worry about starving. Gamers™️ will find something else to be mad at soon enough
💖 1
Fli 02-Aug-19 06:14 AM
Ok cool. It's nice to know that you tricked me into being excited for this game when you absolutely don't care about potential consumers at all. That you see everyone who has a problem with this decision as a butt of a private joke. Silly me for assuming that I could come here and actually hoping that the developers would deign to speak to the unwashed masses with a modicum of respect.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:14 AM
@Sinner firstly, we're under NDA and secondly I'd be a lot more inclined to share and engage with you if you hadn't started out showing that you're a troll
plate 02-Aug-19 06:14 AM
I'm an indie dev and I support you guys, keep on keeping on!
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:15 AM
Game dev here supporting you 👌
AnuBius 02-Aug-19 06:15 AM
@Fli thats a big LUL right there
morningstar 02-Aug-19 06:15 AM
another game dev showing support. remember to take breaks y'all
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 06:15 AM
indie dev squad 💖
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:15 AM
@Fli I think the jokes were very clearly aimed at people who are irrationally angry toxic gamers, and if you feel like you're the butt of those jokes, maybe that describes you?
Garry 02-Aug-19 06:15 AM
Another game dev here, big hug to everyone!
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 06:16 AM
People making games are primaraly making it because they want to make the game they have in mind, and other people are interested in it
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:16 AM
really appreciate the support!
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:17 AM
When Tencent was caught illegally searching peoples computers for steam propriatary files, without permission. I think that they lost the highground that allows them to say "only entitled people" wouldn't want to use EGS.
Fli 02-Aug-19 06:17 AM
It's hard not to think I'm the butt of the joke when you've put anyone who disagrees mildly with you into a "toxic gamers" camp. I've been nothing but respectful but you can't even deign to give back the same attitude
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:17 AM
@Sinner please search chat for tencent because those arguments have been discussed extensively
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 06:18 AM
here's a question that isn't an attack - is Ooblets gonna be published under Epic Games on Xbox One now? (edited)
Anomalies 02-Aug-19 06:18 AM
I've been idly checking in on this throughout my day and while I both do not purchase from epic and felt that the blog post started this far too negatively, Y'all motherfuckers need to learn to reflect on how you present yourselves.
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:18 AM
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 06:18 AM
People acting like entitled little trolls, then complaining that there isn't open dialogue is hilarious. The heck you think the reaction to your crap would be?
Rhubarbist 02-Aug-19 06:18 AM
@Sinner Firstly, that was disproved. Secondly, you're not entitled if you don't want to use EGS, it's everything after that that makes you entitled.
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:19 AM
They admitted their launcher did exactly that, then claimed it was ok because the files couldn't be used to harm you. That's very different from "disproved."
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 06:19 AM
@Sinner u got any proof of this? Or is this just a thing you saw on reddit?
Fli 02-Aug-19 06:20 AM
Well enjoy your money because you're being dragged over the coals everyone else other than this echo chamber, and a toxic fool like yourself isn't worth talking to or respecting. I'm out. Good luck with your niche indie title
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:20 AM
wait we wouldn't be getting all our arguments based off of rumors and things we were told to be angry about on reddit, would we???
we're being dragged over coals on reddit, where they drag every game that goes with epic
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 06:21 AM
"I'm angry -Why are you being angry -STOP TELLING ME I'M ANGRY JUST LISTEN -I'm listening -No one listens to me you greedy devs"
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:21 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/b0rxdq/epic_game_store_spyware_tracking_and_you/eijlbge/ This is the Epic games post where they explicitly state that their launcher accesses files without permission, but it's ok because the files arn't dangerous.
2,290 votes and 1,059 comments so far on Reddit
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:21 AM
People who mind don't matter and people who matter don't mind ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:21 AM
the difference is we didn't bend over backwards to pretend to be sorry about it, and you folks are totally not used to not getting your way
Rhubarbist 02-Aug-19 06:21 AM
@Fli Jeez, the lack of self awareness...
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 06:22 AM
while they shouldn't be accessing localconfig.vdt or whatever the file was called, they did send the information that they claimed to be sending, which was friends information.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:22 AM
not sure how you could read that post and get angry, @Sinner
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 06:22 AM
Perp, just let it go man, why keep perpetuating the toxicity? just focus on the positive comments, since you already pretty much answered to every concern people had with the Epic store, just go on with your day, don't keep throwing snarky remarks at every person, you know what's best for your product, and if you think you made the right decision, so be it, but i don't get why you keep trying to go this far.
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 06:23 AM
@Fli "This echo chamber isn't echoing me, therefore tis a bad one" @perplamps Your exclusivity announcement was golden btw, top tier, every word of it
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 06:23 AM
the announcement was so funny tbh Marx killed me (edited)
morningstar 02-Aug-19 06:24 AM
i also agree that you should stop answering to like all the hate and only answer legit questions. the announcement was funny and some of the replies too but pls fricken rest for a bit and interact with peeps that lift you up, not tear you down. this can't be good for y'all. / v this person sealions (edited)
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:24 AM
ARE YOU REALLY AGREEING WITH THE SEA LION IN THIS CONVERSATION THAT IS----
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:24 AM
@perplamps It's unethical to use your platform to mine people for data, no matter how "incidental" the data might be, without permission from the end user. I understand that you arn't really in a position to agree with someone who is annoyed at EGS, however Tim Agrees with ME, and not you. https://i.imgur.com/WiuzKqi.jpg since he admits that what the launcher was doing was not ok.,
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 06:25 AM
At this point is just an "Us vs Them" argument, neither side is going to change their mind on their stance against the Epic Store, why even bother trying to change that? it just seems like a lost fight to me tbh, also @Sinner use the search function, literally all you're talking about has been talked about before
mirta000 02-Aug-19 06:25 AM
In the end EGS don't comply with GDPR, so as an EU person, I ignore them :I Don't really want to put myself in danger on purpose, when there are laws to protect me on this continent (edited)
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 06:26 AM
I still don't understand why it is the devs job to morally object to the actions of a corporation that is not even their direct boss
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:26 AM
@Sinner I mean, you probably do agree to letting them do whatever they want in their installer eula, but the stuff you've just posted seems pretty innocuous to me one way or another. it looks a lot like grasping at straws for things to get upset about
Timmy 02-Aug-19 06:27 AM
I wish you guys success, I really do, I know the conditions that some indie devs have to put up with (my brother is one), but guys the piece you wrote on the subject wouldn't help, you'll be eventually on Steam, this game or the next ones, you should've discussed it more internally...
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 06:27 AM
@Deadly Penguin I think he's perfectly justified. A lot of people came to this discord specifically to seek him out to vent their anger about Le Big Bad EGS. They don't want to have any discussion about EG's practices, they just want to be mad at them for going with EGS at all. It stopped being about the store and became about gamers being told be mad about actual problems, not an optional launcher thats free and optional
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:27 AM
Even the CEO agrees with me that what they did was unethical, and you still don't see a single reason that someone might not want trust EGS? Not even a bit. You can't imagine a single person having a legitimate complaint against EGS?
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 06:27 AM
yeah, but we literally discussed it for over 16 hours at this point, I think it's time to let it go and go back to enjoying Ooblets
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:30 AM
Let me put it another way then, if you don't think what EGS did was wrong, do you think it would be okay for Ooblets to access my information on my private computer without asking permission?
morningstar 02-Aug-19 06:31 AM
Sing-along with Idina Menzel in this full sequence from Disney's Frozen. Subscribe to Disney UK: http://bit.ly/subscribe-to-disney Follow us on Twitter: http...
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 06:31 AM
doesn't pretty much everyone collect your information
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:31 AM
@Sinner it sounds like the CEO is placating you and trying to work with the community and you're using that as fuel to get even angrier, so... why would you expect anyone to deal with you in good faith
mirta000 02-Aug-19 06:31 AM
Can't enjoy an unreleased game on a platform I ignore. I'm just here because perplamps is still managing to continue to wreck his reputation by continuing to belittle potential customers. You guys have a moneybag right, make sure that one of your hires is a literal PR guy. edit: recent gold nugglets - how do you even tie your shoelaces? (edited)
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:33 AM
I'm asking you a simple question, in good faith. Do you think it's ok for Ooblets to mine for my computers information. You don't seem to think it was bad for EGS to do that, so I'm asking you personally. Would you personally feel ok with making it so when you ran Ooblets it mined information that users privately did not want you to have.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 06:34 AM
Have you ever read Google's terms of use lol
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:35 AM
@Sinner first off, can you say for certain if they didn't get permission to view and modify your computer's files? that sounds like pretty standard eula stuff to me secondly, what you're describing sounds scary but it's actually what a lot of common software does (not defending the practice personally, just aware of it), like how do you think VAC works? (as in valve anti-cheat)
morningstar 02-Aug-19 06:35 AM
this just in: perplams is literally the epic CEO and he's responsible for literally everything htat happens in epic. he's the only one solely responsible for every gamer's data. also yeah ^ as if epic is the only bad company lol
drunkdecoy 02-Aug-19 06:35 AM
Game looked interesting, but I guess they feared it would flop so they took the bribe from Epic/China. Saying you feared your game is going to flop though isn't the best pr move, but since they got whatever moneybag Epic gave them they dont care.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 06:35 AM
Guys, the developer is obviously not going to change their mind, so the least you can do is respect it and just accept that you might not get what you want
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 06:35 AM
You can have all the issues you want with Epic, telling them to a developer isn't going to change them, they don't even work for the company, and again, Perp already heard all of this like 10 hours ago lul
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:36 AM
I've agreed to the steam EULA, I read the Tencent EULA too, and it was not there, that's why tim, the ceo was quick to say what they were doing is wrong and that they had to stop doing it. Because they had not first asked permisison for doing it. This is not a matter of EULA, because as their CEO said from his own mouth, we did not agree to it.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:37 AM
@Sinner i can't really follow what you're saying about tencent, but he said it was a mistake, whether it was allowed or not is independent of that. I think the real lesson of that is don't give an inch to the anti-epic hate mob because they'll use any inch you give them and run wild with it pretending it supports their whole narrative
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:37 AM
It shocks me that people think they're not getting what they want. They're getting a great game that won't have to compromise on quality to ensure their product delivers... isn't that what gamers always want?
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 06:37 AM
Plus it's easy to criticise as a consumer without seeing it from the perspective of a developer who has put time and money across months or years into a game. Game dev is pricey, and sometimes you have to prioritise financial security over what is slightly more convenient for others.
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:38 AM
Ok, so we agree that EGS made a drastic mistake, that they agree was a mistake too. With that in mind, and with the scope in mind that thousands of users had their data unethically and possibly illegally accessed. Do you still think there isn't a single reason someone might be mad about the EGS?
mirta000 02-Aug-19 06:39 AM
game dev in ones own bedroom while getting 3000$ a month for it?
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 06:39 AM
Ooblets is literally going to be even better than it would have been before thanks to this, so
drunkdecoy 02-Aug-19 06:39 AM
@Evey. Did they consider doing early access? Oxygen not included was in that for 2 years, got tons of hours in that game and they kept making it better with players.
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 06:39 AM
i think is a total mistake to generalize against people that complain about epic. it´s true there is a hating mob, but there is also a lot of legitimate criticism that is being dismissed and should be considered. some of that criticism affect consumers directly. and maybe i´m wrong, but consumers are necessary to keep the industry moving (edited)
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 06:39 AM
I think the criticisms against EGS are totally valid. But ultimately it's up to the creator of the game on how they want to distribute their game. If the consumers really don't like it then unfortunately they'll have to vote with their money and not buy it. You can't bully someone into releasing a game where you want them to
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:39 AM
I thought people hated early access nowadays lol
kura-marty 02-Aug-19 06:40 AM
@JC_ADX exactly....
Domin0e 02-Aug-19 06:40 AM
Not every dev wants to go the Early Access route. Not every style of development, not every game lends itself to Early Access.
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 06:41 AM
Early Access is a slippery slope, a lot of great games have come out of it, but also a lot of games have gotten abandoned, it's not the Early Access itself that people dislike, but rather the uncertain nature of a game that goes under that process
Anomalies 02-Aug-19 06:41 AM
Some indie games have done good work through it enough to ease peoples concerns, slay the spire, risk of rain, games the share of their game pacing suit it well.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:41 AM
@JC_ADX if your crew includes the stuff I regularly see in the eff epic subreddit, the sort of stuff that's been brought to this discord, maybe the more reasonable edge cases of the hate mob doesn't make up for the force as a whole
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 06:41 AM
@JC_ADX You're right, and there's definitely a lot of legit concerns, but most attempts to address them often get drowned out by people shouting at devs with either inaccurate or flat out wrong information and bad faith arguments
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 06:41 AM
And it's not like the dev promised a Steam release like with Shenmue. It's a very different case from that. So I'd say it's an unfair criticism to lump this game with games that Epic has supposedly "poached" from Steam.
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:41 AM
My only point is that, there are real people with real concerns, that are not entitled, are not angry, and only want answers, and making a post that calls anyone who doesn't like the EGS entitled, and angry, and trend followers. Is kind of a mean/cruel thing to do.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:43 AM
the kids here are legitimately arguing over whether 15k/year per dev is enough to live off and thinking that's how much it costs to develop a game and you're expecting adults to treat these arguments as legitimate
fire 3
drunkdecoy 02-Aug-19 06:43 AM
@Deadly Penguin well it's a bet from players that the game has potential, I have made a poor bet a couple or times from that and a couple of my favorite games have come out of it.
Iota 02-Aug-19 06:43 AM
@perplamps So, what am I supposed to do if I live in a country that EGS does not currently support? Do you think it's fair for me to be disappointed in your team now that I cannot gain access to a game I might have otherwise been hyped for and ready to enjoy? Do you think it is unreasonable to lay the blame at your doorstep for putting the game on a storefront that I cannot access?
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 06:43 AM
I mean if I was offered a bigger percentage of profits and an upfront payment that would at least partially guarantee a decent return on my hard work I'd take that deal 99% of the time and a lot of the people who say otherwise are probably lying.
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 06:44 AM
@perplamps what i think is that, as @Jpeg says, a lot of the legit criticism is drowned in the ocean of epic hate. in some cases, even people in the f-epic subreddit say valid criticism, but expressed in such a way that can´t be considered. being polite in a discussion is key. if the discussion starts making the other party angry and defensive, any of the arguments will be considered at all. and the epic discussion is a good example of this trend
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 06:44 AM
I'm gonna ask everyone here this: Do you have any complains about the game itself, or are all your doubts and concerns about stuff that the devs can't fix because they don't work for the company at all?
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:44 AM
I don't think 15k is a reasonable ammount to live off of, and I think you are perfectly in your rights to say that you want to go with the EGS, I just want to understand why you thought it was nessecary to call people entitled in your first post ever bringing up something that you obviously knew was going to upset people.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:44 AM
@Iota it's fair to be disappointed in the absolutely minor first world issue of not being able to get the game you want to play when you want to play it, but maybe in the same way as it's disappointing when ice cream in your freezer becomes too hard to scoop
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 06:44 AM
They literally mentioned in the announcement how the cash would help ease the stress of crunch time and let them put more resources into Ooblets' development, resulting in a slightly longer development time but overall more fun, no-compromises game @Rowleyy
morningstar 02-Aug-19 06:44 AM
EGS is not the only place that doens't support all currencies? it's been 14 years since steam launched and it still hasn't added support to my country even though a LOT of peeps from there play. it's the sad truth friend but lmao there ain't much you can't do. also please stop sealioning y'all. this aint the devs fault- (edited)
Iota 02-Aug-19 06:45 AM
@perplamps you chose to make the move, you chose to leave people like me out in the dark on this with no forewarning (edited)
GhostTrick 02-Aug-19 06:45 AM
Hello @perplamps just dropping to adress a few things around the "it's just another launcher" for you. I genuinely think you weren't accusing people of being entitled on purpose, and more on ignorance. If you view things simply as "download a launcher, play the game", sure, that's fine. But there's actually more to it when it comes to both features and EGS policies. When it comes to features, some stuff matter for people. From what you might call "trivial" such as Big Picture mode to play on TV or cloud saves, to more important ones to customers such as "Family Sharing" which allows people to lend their games to friends or family... to crucial ones such as Steam Input for people with disabilities (I don't think they are entitled, right ?) When it comes to policies, when you claim those exclusivity doesn't impact us, it's wrong. Actually when a game is exclusive on Epic's store, that means it's not sold anywhere else. Which totally remove price competition that customer come to expect. On a 60 dollars game, I usually save up 15 to 20 dollars on buying on LEGITIMATE, OFFICIAL stores like Green Man Gaming, Voidu or Humble. I'm glad you got the money, truly. And I would've been glad to buy Ooblet when the exclusivity period is over. It doesn't mean I'm entitled. It just means no one is forcing you to not take the deal. And no one should judge me for not buying your game on day one because "of a launcher".
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:45 AM
@JC_ADX that makes sense, and I think when the hate mob wants to be civil and reasonable as a group it will definitely be better for everyone
mirta000 02-Aug-19 06:45 AM
@perplamps nice that you're calling me a child, but honestly, my family lives on less. 10K a year a person and it is enough. I am sorry that you can't sort your own finances. edit: dear pep, if I woul say that I have a free time unity project going on that I do in the evenings by trying to make a game about trading while also writting a poetry book, covering 6 month heart scans and fixing my teeth, would it really make a difference to you? (edited)
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 06:46 AM
@perplamps As much as I'm on your side with this and agree that it's entirely your call on where to release your game, aggravating the doubters by saying their concerns and frustrations are stupid or meaningless is not going to do you any favours in the long run
drunkdecoy 02-Aug-19 06:46 AM
@PassTheNachos well that sounds like saying the dev's are broke and worry the game is only hype.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:46 AM
@mirta000 can you tell me what game you're developing on that budget?
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:47 AM
10k a YEAR is literally below the poverty line
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 06:47 AM
Reminder that even though the team is composed of 2 people, they still hire freelancers and stuff, and those freelancers don't work for free btw
Iota 02-Aug-19 06:47 AM
@perplamps why anyone would want to support your team after seeing you act like this is so far beyond me. This is honestly kinda disgraceful PR (edited)
morningstar 02-Aug-19 06:47 AM
tone policing AND sealioning. double whammy
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 06:47 AM
Folks really don't understand the cost of externally produced assets like music, or development tools, or hardware like the mocap that brought us oob floss
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 06:48 AM
10k a year is not a living, especially in the United States. That's like welfare. It's barely keeping your head above water at best. And that's not even factoring the cost of developing a game. Anyone who thinks that 10k a year is liveable has obviously never had a job before.
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:48 AM
So yeah, money is a motivator, and wanting your project to make money is fine. I really want to just know why you felt the need to pre-emptively call anyone who might dislike it manbabies.
Matt Gambell 02-Aug-19 06:48 AM
I think most people that think games can be made on such a small budget are the same kind of people who are releasing games that make a lot of developers want to move away from Steam as their main/priority storefront tbh
🍵 2
mirta000 02-Aug-19 06:48 AM
20K a YEAR for a family is not. Same as 36K a year for a 2 person family. You are also acting like other people here are not in software field and never hired freelancers. However freelancers are a one time cost when you're a 2 man team.
GhostTrick 02-Aug-19 06:49 AM
@Matt Gambell that's lame
Iota 02-Aug-19 06:49 AM
@Matt Gambell or maybe people, like me for instance, are not happy with a store release that came as a surprise that doesn't work for us in our country
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:49 AM
@Sinner I thought you were still on the Epic stuff, but now you've switched over to the tone argument? i mean just look at the arguments here as you're typing this and tell me I'm wrong about my description of the anti-epic people
Pip 02-Aug-19 06:50 AM
Honestly if you can't see why, you haven't been paying enough attention to this chat...
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 06:50 AM
@perplamps i think the "hate mob" can´t be convinced, and even some of them (or a lot of them) don´t back their words with actions (take the "boycott modern warfare 2" group for example). also, they are just a minor % of the total of potential public of a certain game, they can hate you to the core and still sell well. most of them don´t even consider the context of the dev and why it decided to accept the deal. but generalizing is not good either, because in epic critics there is people that try to be reasonable and can be upset with the decision with legitimate reasons, while respecting the decision of the dev of accepting the exclusivity deal. those legitimate reasons are the ones that can be discussed in a civil environment. engaging in fighting with "hate mobs" only ends up being frustrating and making people say things in the heat of the moment
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:50 AM
@mirta000 where do I subscribe to your game development newsletter?
MoonShade 02-Aug-19 06:50 AM
capitalism is such a beautiful source of discord
Domin0e 02-Aug-19 06:50 AM
A wild Pip! 😮
mirta000 02-Aug-19 06:51 AM
Perplamps - for several years, you don't. Pointless until I have something nice and polished. edit: lota, they responded before, said that you're not entitled for the game. Honestly come here to collect dirt on Per, else this discord is pointless. (edited)
Iota 02-Aug-19 06:51 AM
@perplamps I literally CANNOT use epic. What am I supposed to do to get the game legally? I'd like to hear some ideas, please.
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 06:51 AM
wait for steam? or is getting a game that high of a priority that you literally can't wait? (edited)
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:51 AM
You are blaming this on people who don't like EGS, but I think that you wouldn't have met this reaction today if you hadn't written what you wrote. We'll never know, but I do not think you'd have met with the insane vitrol you've experienced today if you had made the announcement in a way that wasn't as obviously offensive. It was important to establish that EGS IS an actual issue, and that there are real reasons for people to not be super enthusiastic about using it, because you literally said that you thought there was no legitimate reason for the complaints.
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:52 AM
Why do you think it's their problem to deliver a game to you at all costs
Ross 02-Aug-19 06:52 AM
I just wanna say @perplamps as another game developer, I 100% support you and your team on this decision and the fact you are here answering angry people's questions is way more than they deserve, this will blow over soon
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 06:52 AM
@GhostTrick, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@GhostTrick said: @Matt Gambell if you want to escape a storefront because there are indies with less money than you to make games, that's literally being an *. Also @perplamps I just gave you a list of arguments. Can you tell me how they fit your description ? I think they are fairly reasonable and unagressive.
MoonShade 02-Aug-19 06:52 AM
@Iota they dont want your steam money that is all
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:52 AM
@Iota you can wait, you can talk to Epic support to figure out how to get access, or you can maybe not buy it or steal it all. it's a game. feeling entitled to have it is part of that whole entitlement thing
@Ross appreciated!
Curlscurly 02-Aug-19 06:53 AM
People who feel offended by the announcement and it's tone are the problem, not the announcement.
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 06:53 AM
@Iota If you can't access the epic games store, thats a valid concern, but your anger at the devs isnt valid. Its a timed exclusive and even if it wasn't, it's a videogame, not insulin, you'll be fine without it. I can't afford a PS4, Im not at Insomniac devs' throats because the game didnt come to PC
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 06:53 AM
Get an Xbox One and play it on that 👀
Iota 02-Aug-19 06:53 AM
I'm asking to buy the thing on time with everyone else. Something that could've happened if they didn't pull this stunt. That's all I wanted, @Evey That's all we want, @Jpeg I really don't feel that that is soo entitled. (edited)
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:54 AM
That's the sacrifice they've made and they've done so willingly because devs have to eat and pay rent and can't make literally everyone happy
drunkdecoy 02-Aug-19 06:54 AM
Meh, after reading this chat the game has lost interest in me, good luck in your endeavors or fights with people in chat or w/e your doing here.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:55 AM
@GhostTrick features are being actively developed, just because you're used to certain features doesn't mean they're a god-given right. as for pricing competition, that's not how it works. we'll be determining the price and it doesn't matter whether it's on GOG too or not
we determine the price on each platform
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 06:55 AM
@Iota Yeah and all they wanted was financial security and the ability to make the thing theyre working hard on without compromises. I think their needs trump yours here bud @drunkdecoy really looks like u were more here for the EGS news than the game itself, but go off I guess
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:55 AM
Unless EGS forces you to do a sale without your consent, as they did a few months back. Then you won't.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 06:55 AM
@Ross, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Ross said: @Jpeg **** yes
Iota 02-Aug-19 06:56 AM
@Jpeg They had more financial security than I currently have.
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 06:56 AM
@perplamps hey perp, serious question, you mentioned that the exclusivity deal is based on milestones, this is the first time i've heard something like that regarding Epic exclusivity, so I'm not entirely sure what that means, does that mean that you're exclusive until you reach a certain sales goal? or something else?
Pathogen-David 02-Aug-19 06:56 AM
@Sinner That sale came out of Epic's cut. It was a bad idea on their part to do it without talking to their partners, but the amount of money going to the devs did not change.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:56 AM
@Sinner just to keep up, the counter argument to someone saying it will be too expensive is that it might go on sale
GhostTrick 02-Aug-19 06:56 AM
@perplamps so people with disabilities are entitled, according to you ? It's bad for a customer to expect an experience or a feature ? As for the price point, yes, it's exactly how it works. You set the price on platforms like GOG or Steam. But on 3rd party stores, legitimate ones, hear me, not G2A or grey market, that is if you go through that, they often discount games through coupon by eating on their own cut.
Domin0e 02-Aug-19 06:57 AM
@Pathogen-David The problem with the Epic sale was less where the cut came from. It's about the price history, from what I have heard through the grapevine from devs.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 06:57 AM
@MoonShade, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@MoonShade said: @perplamps features arent a right its now a norm , offering better services is literally the definition of competition by ** on these people you're just defending with poor arguments epic trying to take steam out of the picture epic is a monopoly just as much as steam supposedly is
Evey 02-Aug-19 06:57 AM
Why are disabled people an argument point suddenly
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:57 AM
@Deadly Penguin release milestones, like EA launch, 1.0
Sinner 02-Aug-19 06:58 AM
It's just another in a long list of "big oopsies" that epic game story has done. It really feels terrible when they constantly do unethical, potentially illegal things, but then make it ok by paying people extra, and saying sowwie.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 06:58 AM
because they have to do everything they can to vilify these incredibly patient devs @Evey
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 06:58 AM
>Treating not being able to use a launcher the same way as a physical or mental disabilty That's extremely ironic @perplamps Also, thanks for the answer, looking forward to get it as soon as either Epic adds my currency to their launcher, or you release it on steam, whichever comes first
SpellingBee 02-Aug-19 06:58 AM
Why isn't it called Mushroom Dancers? I'd much rather play a game called Mushroom Dancers! (edited)
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 06:58 AM
the epic mega sale was a really big problem for supergiant games. they planned to raise the price of Hades after a certain update and boom, they found their game for around 6 euro without knowing why
perplamps 02-Aug-19 06:59 AM
thanks @Deadly Penguin appreciate the reasonableness!
Matt Gambell 02-Aug-19 06:59 AM
Across a threshold, @Rowleyy -- yeah. Your average indie game like this costs far less than those AAA but it still costs money to deliver the quality and scope. Getting into game budgets honestly is a whole long conversation (which I'm more than open to go into somewhere) but in the western world unless its just a passion project, a game of scale like this needs people, software, hardware - often with experience. Especially if it's being developed full-time to a deadline. The greater the scope of the game the more it's going to cost. Btw -- It's clear EGS definitely has a lot of issues right now, because it's an early piece of software (which people definitely have valid concerns about). I personally think it'll get there, like most software -- these things take a big chunk of time, unfortunately. You can't just flip a cloud saves switch on overnight. Though i do agree, a lack of a shopping cart is a weird oversight... (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:00 AM
mind if i ask everyone who's still in here what time it is for them?
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 02-Aug-19 07:00 AM
Looks on the bright side guys, At least Japanese games won't go this route, Since epic doesn't support Japanese way of paying. And as i have heard, Japan players also doesn't like EGS.
GhostTrick 02-Aug-19 07:00 AM
@Evey that's an exemple between many. the point is, it's not because YOU don't care about a feature that it's meaningless for OTHERS and that they're entitled.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 07:00 AM
4am - too early for this junk!
Domin0e 02-Aug-19 07:00 AM
CEST here. 😛
Krystalizer 02-Aug-19 07:00 AM
9pm
Sinner 02-Aug-19 07:00 AM
Anyway, I think I've adaquately made my point here. Now that Perplamps isn't screaming at the clouds telling us we're all entitled, and has accepted that maybe there are some legitimate concerns. Later folks, been a real treat.
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 07:00 AM
7am for me
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 07:00 AM
It's 7 Am for me, I've been up all night keeping up with the whole thing
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 07:00 AM
1 pm
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:00 AM
@Sinner thanks for stopping by
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:00 AM
@perplamps why would I want to support you after this convo? Put yourself in my position, you've just been called entitled and you've been insulted. (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:01 AM
@Iota I don't need the support, just would prefer not to have the harassment from an angry hate mob. slight difference.
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:01 AM
You cannot seriously be comparing accessibility features to stuff like game reviews and shopping carts, which are QoL improvements and not actually necessary for someone's ability to use your software
MoonShade 02-Aug-19 07:02 AM
i'll just go back to stardew valley and see how far this fire burn (fire being the outrage) (edited)
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 07:02 AM
The people you've been talking to, right now, have not been harassing you.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 07:02 AM
yeah they kinda have
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:02 AM
@perplamps I am NOT a member of the angry hate mob. I haven't insulted you or used any slurs or done anything uncalled for. I asked you a question about release in my country and this is how you responded. You gave me no benefit of the doubt and insulted me
Pip 02-Aug-19 07:03 AM
I mean, it feels like they've come in here to do just that, yeah
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 07:03 AM
@perplamps, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@perplamps said: I've had to seriously prune a lot of the discourse that was just namecalling, swearing, spamming, racism, ****, gore, etc
@Jpeg, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Jpeg said: It would be really nice if you people actually cared about accessibility and weren't just using it as a rock to throw at EGS because you have a hate * @iruma cece the amount of bad faith arguments I've seen targeted at him look like harassment to me
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:03 AM
@Rowleyy I honestly can't make heads or tails of what you're saying
Lime 02-Aug-19 07:03 AM
Yeah I've literally seen no insults. the way the devs respond is out of order imo
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:03 AM
I can see you're angry, but you're not making any sense
MoonShade 02-Aug-19 07:04 AM
i love how they use the bot to remove some critics from the conversation it kind of gives more fuel to the fire
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:04 AM
I think people are conflating out of order responses with not backing down to an irrational hate mob brigading our community
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:04 AM
You've not seen insults but they've definitely been here, they've just been removed now that we have a mod in the room lol
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 02-Aug-19 07:04 AM
"hey guys support us on patreon, we need all the money we can to make a great game" After Epic deal "Lol we don't need your money anymore" (edited)
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 07:04 AM
the thing is, the bot doesn't remove your comment, just bad words, whatever you said is still there
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 07:04 AM
@MoonShade it just removes insults, not entiere posts
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:05 AM
@perplamps you are being very uncalled for right now. You were rude to me after the question and then you accused me of being in this gamer mob and harassing you. I have done NO SUCH THINGS (edited)
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 07:05 AM
If asking questions is harassment, and participating in a discussion is harassment, then do the needful and make the bans happen. Have there been assholes? Absolutely. I will not make excuses for them. But there have been people with legitimate grievances, and you're lumping them in with the channers spamming awful images and racist crap. That's disingenuous, to say the least.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:05 AM
@Iota i've been reading all the stuff you've been writing and not a bit of it has been a rational argument, just a sequence of "how dare you"s
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 07:05 AM
i honestly think that the problem here is the tone of the replies @perplamps maybe is because of the huge amount of pressure since yesterday but in my opinion you are a bit in a defensive position. maybe when the outrage dissapears the context will be better for a constructive discussion
Lime 02-Aug-19 07:06 AM
Theres literally no brigading. What are you talking about? People are telling you their valid concerns. It's not right to just take criticism as "oh it's a hate mob". I dont know what you expect honestly.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:06 AM
@iruma cece you've been in this chat for literally like 12 hours now
MoonShade 02-Aug-19 07:06 AM
@Honeyxilia i was removed earlier and i didnt throw any insults lol
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:06 AM
@Rowleyy look at the previous things you've written to me
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:06 AM
@Revy-Scary-Skeleton What, do you want them to be dependent on your money? Now they can make the game they wanted without relying on enough people buying it. Win-win to me 🤔
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:07 AM
@perplamps I have changed my mind about your game. Needless to say, I really haven;t ever been treated like this by a company I was a fan of. I'm shocked that you are acting like this. This is very not good PR
turtlebyte 02-Aug-19 07:07 AM
A company dependent on its customers? Say it isn't so!
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 07:07 AM
I'm on vacation, if I wanna post on a discord while waiting on a shuttle ride, I will
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:07 AM
@Lime we've been at this all day and night now. i am only here now because the 4chan kids were posting gore and racist tirades and people were pinging me to moderate it
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 07:07 AM
easier to brush you off as a gamer™
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 02-Aug-19 07:07 AM
It shows them their true colors. They never cared for the fans who for years supported the game on patreon. Once they got the money we basically become just dust in the wind.
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 07:07 AM
Since before, from my perspective, y'all have only said "We are not insulting you, just listen to what we have to say" without saying anything 🤷
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 07:08 AM
Literally sounds like a dev dream come true to have your funding squared so you can focus on making something you're proud of and I'm so happy for them
Sombodh 02-Aug-19 07:08 AM
@perplamps what makes you so sure it's 4chan people doing and not just some random people, you keep saying 4chan and it sounds like you got a big grudge against 4chan
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:09 AM
If they didn't care about the fans they would have shut down this discord already and not been so generous as to actually spend like 12 hours answering to an incessant stream of people demanding answers to every small perceived micro-aggression
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 07:09 AM
he gave you an answer to your concern, you may not like it, but there's not much Perp can do anymore, he already signed the contract, stop making a mountain out of a mole hill, the fact that people keep repeating the same things over and over and then getting angry at Perp for answering them for the 1000th time is really baffling, at least he answered
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:09 AM
I absolutely care about our community and fans, but honestly never cared at all about people on Reddit and 4chan working themselves into a froth about whatever the latest gamer drama stuff is
Lime 02-Aug-19 07:09 AM
Okay fair enough - but most of the people here discussing with you ar NOT from 4chan are NOT posting gore are NOT threatening anyone - so why treat them like they are the same. They are your community.
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:09 AM
@perplamps I literally came here to ask about release in my country, THAT IS ALL. This is how i was treated. i feel astonished (edited)
Krystalizer 02-Aug-19 07:10 AM
Have you contacted Epic to ask them if they have a solution?
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 07:10 AM
@Iota he already said he couldn't help it
Naomiki 02-Aug-19 07:11 AM
perplamps, I really love this game, but I think making it an exclusive isn't going to help it grow as much as you might think, the epic games store isn't great, the company itself isn't great either. it was your decision in the end, but I think many people would not want to play your game if it's just going to be on 1 bad launcher that is owned by a money hungry, anti-customer company. I will still support this game however, because I love the concept of it, and it's still cute. Hope the best for you, even though I do not agree with that decision.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 07:11 AM
You know people's real issue when they talk about the Bad Launcher
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:11 AM
after insulting me and implying entitlement and then directly calling me entitled @Honeyxilia
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 02-Aug-19 07:11 AM
To lessen the backlash obviously. Its just a PR move because they still want the game to sell after all. Such a shame for the fan that supported them on patreon on to find out its on a launcher they will not support or cannot use at all. That is one huge backstab.
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 07:11 AM
you see guys? there is a way to express your distaste for the platform without attacking everything in sight, and Naomiki just showed you how
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:11 AM
@Naomiki Probably the only reasonable negative response to the decision I've seen all night
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:12 AM
@Iota I don't think you really understand what entitlement means. you came here claiming to be entitled to have the game at the same time as everyone else or else you'd need to steal it.
Lime 02-Aug-19 07:12 AM
It's not just the "bad launcher" @DorkOrca . It's the anti consumer practices, the lack of regional pricing, the security problems, the lack of features.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:13 AM
@Naomiki I understand your frustration. I think it's a little difficult to understand why you might feel Epic is a money-hungry corporation compared to any other company
there's some stuff about capitalism that kinda sucks, but it's the system we have
gracie 02-Aug-19 07:13 AM
coming here as another dev to say i think you should step away from this and that i don't think this is healthy for you to be doing. lock the discord for a few days if you have to, or whatever, but just take a step back and stop for a while
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 07:13 AM
well I have some bad news for you about capitalism as a system and the behavior it encourages from companies, buddy @Lime
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 07:13 AM
they fixed the regional pricing, it's available in over 200 countries as far as I know, but some countries don't have it as good as Steam
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:13 AM
I never said I would steal it or even implied that, @perplamps .You, however, are doing a good job putting words in my mouth. This is unprecedented unprofessionalism,
Domin0e 02-Aug-19 07:14 AM
@Lime What security problems, if you don't mind me asking? I have used Epic's launcher for UE4 in uni since it has been available for that purpose and I have never had any issues, be it pre-, or post-Fortnite or post-EGS-announcement.
morningstar 02-Aug-19 07:14 AM
yeah fellow dev, again, saying you should lock the discord man. you've been repkying to the same comments for a day
❤ 5
MoonShade 02-Aug-19 07:14 AM
@Evey reasonable because they said they'd still buy it? honestly i think naomiki pretty much said what many so called unreasonable people were already complaining about
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 02-Aug-19 07:14 AM
"Hey i can't use this store where i'm at, is there a solution that you can help me out with?" "No you are entitled gamer"
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:14 AM
@Iota : "I'm asking to buy the thing on time with everyone else. Something that could've happened if they didn't pull this stunt. That's all I wanted" "What am I supposed to do to get the game legally? I'd like to hear some ideas, please."
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 07:15 AM
but he´s not saying he will steal it...
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:15 AM
@Revy-Scary-Skeleton I know it stinks to hear it, but sometimes the answer to "can i have it" is no
Orbit49 02-Aug-19 07:15 AM
game looks great and have been following for awhile but this was a pretty bad way to go about explaining the situation, just say you wanted the money deal and apologize to those who cant get it yet without calling people entitled gamers
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 07:15 AM
Yeah its entitled, what's he supposed to do? The deal's done and HE DOESNT WORK AT EPIC, he literally can't give him a solution other than wait for steam or just pass on it. He needs to talk to someone at epic, not be here
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 07:15 AM
hotline miami devs and some others just let people pirate the games if they can't access it in their countries due to legal reasons or similar lol (not that I condone it) (edited)
Lime 02-Aug-19 07:15 AM
@Domin0e There are many, many people reporting their accounts being hacked into and the data which epic keeps on individual accounts. I dont have the technical details to hand - but the info Is out there.
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:15 AM
I literally asked you how to get you my money fair and square given my country @perplamps
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:16 AM
You can't That's the answer (Not on PC at least) (edited)
Naomiki 02-Aug-19 07:16 AM
I'm not angry or frustrated at anyone for making decisions for their games, It's not my business to handle, I do stand by what I've said though. and I agree with Lime - in the end the decision is done.
DuckOfDuckness 02-Aug-19 07:16 AM
> sometimes the answer to "can i have it" is no That's not what you were asked, though. They asked "can i buy it". Big difference. They want to give you money.
Omakehell 02-Aug-19 07:16 AM
What's that country?
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:16 AM
@Iota I appreciate that it's frustrating, but you can't always get what you want. I really wish some of your parents had maybe just once told you you can't have something so it didn't take some random game developer trying to teach you that life lesson.
47Ways 02-Aug-19 07:17 AM
@EnforcerKiller the issue with it is not merely the pricing. It also the lack of regional payment methods (some that can't even be sustainable under a 12% cut) which severely limits buying power in certain countries . In addition to that, Epic doesn't actually support regional currencies. Everything is charged in USD and people are hit with conversion fees, which can be particularly bad depending on the bank
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 07:17 AM
i think that if you do decide to make an FAQ, it should start with the question "Do you guys work for Epic?" because hot darn, a lot of the issues people have seem to be stuff you can't fix because it's out of your power
MoonShade 02-Aug-19 07:17 AM
i think its pretty bad when you're tellin g your customers they cant buy your product one the platform they want just because they're in a specific country
mirta000 02-Aug-19 07:17 AM
@Sombodh went to peruse 4chan. Can't find anything about this discord. There are a lot of posts on reddit, but that's mostly because people are astonished that one can even give answers like these devs do.
iruma cece 02-Aug-19 07:17 AM
Expecting an actual discussion out of @perplamps is a waste of time, since we've just seen him basically lie about what someone has said to try and make a point. Iota is now a person trying to pirate the game, and it doesn't matter what else they have to say. You absolutely need to find someone to run your PR, my dude, and luckily enough, you just recently came into a lot of money.
Lime 02-Aug-19 07:17 AM
Also @DorkOrca just because something is encouraged by capitalism. Does not make it right or morally correct. Steam for example does just fine.
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 07:18 AM
you know what that's fair, I just mentioned that it's not as good as Steam for some countries. The "non-standard" payment methods make up a majority as far as I know, but Epic chooses to push the fees on the consumer cause otherwise it would not be very sustainable
turtlebyte 02-Aug-19 07:18 AM
> I really wish some of your parents had maybe just once told you This is called "giving up the moral high ground"
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:18 AM
If you want to give them money then how about this: Subscribe to their patreon?
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:18 AM
I realize that if you folks didn't have the foundational upbringing to understand the concept of not always getting what you want, I won't be able to instill it in you now.
Pio 02-Aug-19 07:18 AM
I personally could not care less that y'all went to EGS. But you do have to know that people have taken you the wrong way. It's not as easy to percieve the tone of your post, and due to the unpopular decision you have made you probably should have been all business up front. Also, saying you don't need your patreons anymore was also a bad move. I get that your intent was that you're not reliant on the kindness of people's donations, but it was taken out of context as things do.
gracie 02-Aug-19 07:19 AM
oh wow
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 07:19 AM
@DorkOrca, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@DorkOrca said: Actually Valve is really predatory and *, especially towards their developers If there's a * immoral business practice EG engages in, you can bet Valve has already engaged in it tenfold @Lime
Naomiki 02-Aug-19 07:19 AM
Good luck to all the people, please don't harass the creators! hope this thing can be talked out peacefully @perplamps what you said was a mistake just now
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 07:19 AM
i think those kind of responses make your point less valid perplamps. being polite in a discussion is key to convince others. and if it´s not possible to convince them, why bother?
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 02-Aug-19 07:19 AM
I just wish the game didn't take the epic deal, then everyone could have bought and played it. If i was a dev, i would have cared about more people playing my game than earning money from it. The game isn't just on steam but GOG as well.
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:19 AM
you could have at least said this in a less rude way. At the very least: >it's fair to be disappointed in the absolutely minor first world issue of not being able to get the game you want to play when you want to play it, but maybe in the same way as it's disappointing when ice cream in your freezer becomes too hard to scoop (edited)
Domin0e 02-Aug-19 07:20 AM
@Lime Never even had a single email that there was someone trying to log into my account. And 2FA via authenticator apps has been around since long before the EGS announcement. While I can only use that as anecdotal evidence, my guess would be that most, not all, of those people are being hacked because they did dumb things or did not take appropriate measures to secure their accounts, Epic or otherwise. Of course, one's milage may vary and I don't want to push aside the notion that people might have legitimately been hacked but more often than not it happens due to negligence and/or stupidity. @perplamps Mind me asking how long you have been going at these discussions, good sir?
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 07:20 AM
@Lime, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Lime said: Holy ****. Your argument comes off the back of "valve probably did it" are you kidding right now? @DorkOrca
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 07:20 AM
@DorkOrca do explain, I'm interested in how Valve is predatory. Definitely not towards consumers, but I don't know too much about how they treat developers.
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 07:20 AM
@Domin0e 18 hours and counting
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:20 AM
I don't blame them for being rude given the amount of poo-poo they've been putting up with all day lmao
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 07:20 AM
Do you all understand that you're spouting what you don't like about Epic and that they can't do anything about it ? @Revy-Scary-Skeleton yeah because having a normal life and develop a game without having to work at the same time is overrated
----- 02-Aug-19 07:20 AM
@morningstar I don't think that the discord should be locked; I mean, I don't really like that perplamps and rebecca are being pressured by this but locking will attract media attention.
Lumi 02-Aug-19 07:20 AM
I don't care about them taking the Epic deal but I would have been better if they tried to at least get the game on GOG too at the same time In the end I don't care I will wait for the game to be in another platform (edited)
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 07:21 AM
@Evey Same. Every time some people stop and leave, a few more come in and recycle the same points that have been made and addressed
Tom L 02-Aug-19 07:21 AM
They way they said it wasn't rude. Those who are annoyed or insulted by the post goes to prove exactly the point of people being entitled. Its calling it out as it is. If you are up in arms over a free piece of software to access a game,# your priorities are awfully out of order.
morningstar 02-Aug-19 07:21 AM
@----- at this point anything they do will garner attraction. might as well save some mental health while you're at it. i get it tho (edited)
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:21 AM
@Evey I asked him, hey is there an alternative way to grant you money for the game? He, without any provocation called me an entitled "gamer" and lumped me in with harassment. Is that how you really would treat fans? (edited)
CommradeWolfie 02-Aug-19 07:21 AM
https://tenor.com/view/bob-ross-paint-bob-ross-painting-gif-4952929 How about we all calm down and just paint like bob ross shall we
Naomiki 02-Aug-19 07:21 AM
Tom, it was run unfortunately you can't defend that. He could've worded it differently and people would not be frustrated
alantarrr 02-Aug-19 07:22 AM
Can I ask why joining Epic is so bad? I'm completely lost
Pio 02-Aug-19 07:22 AM
@Naomiki yeah agreed but hindsight is 20/20.
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 07:22 AM
i think the main problem here is that the context is not right for holding a discussion. devs are under heavy pressure and people are angry because even valid criticism was dismissed
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 07:22 AM
Eventually yes, it's coming to steam, at the very least Epic doesn't do lifetime exclusives
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 07:22 AM
chinese spyware has already been debunked many times (oh no 5 min slow mode) @GhostTrick a lot aren't disclosed true (edited)
Lime 02-Aug-19 07:22 AM
@Domin0e of course. I also had no problems with the launcher - but you must understand and do seem to that the concern is there for many.
Domin0e 02-Aug-19 07:22 AM
@Ken Kun The game will be exclusively available via EGS for an undisclosed amount of time (Tho I have seen 1 year being thrown around) after which it can be published on other PC stores, as well.
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 02-Aug-19 07:22 AM
They could have just not taken epic deal and by that let it be more available on more stores, and by extension, more people could play it. It just shows they care more about the money than people that want to play it.
GhostTrick 02-Aug-19 07:23 AM
Also, why is hte amount of time undisclosed when every others arent ? @EnforcerKiller most are. (edited)
Vatticson 02-Aug-19 07:23 AM
@alantarrr because Epic is not "ideally" a good competitor, apparently.
🤔 1
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:23 AM
okay but it's very much not a bad thing to want to be paid for the hard work you put into something?
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 07:24 AM
Peop always say EG exploits labor, there was a whole thing about Valve and this before https://www.pcgamer.com/ex-valve-employee-describes-ruthless-industry-politics/ Valve takes a hefty cut from all sales, trading sales included, which devs say isn't deserved https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/24/18196154/steam-developers-revenue-epic-games-store Steam has a gross pseudo-monopoly on PC sales thanks to how bloated they are, but in reality they started out just like EGS or Origin or any other launcher https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2017/5/16/15622366/valve-gabe-newell-sales-origin-destructive
He doesn't name the company in question, but it doesn't take any stretching to figure out who he's talking about in cases.
MoonShade 02-Aug-19 07:24 AM
no its a bad thing to bite on the hands that fed you for years tho (also of course its polygon its always polygon that shits on steam and its most of the time poorly made articles on polygon(not denying it might be true just that you need to take polygon articles with a handful of salt)) (edited)
Not A Banana 02-Aug-19 07:26 AM
You guys should probably use that epic money to get a PR person... Because uhhh, you're doing... not the best with public image. I'd tone down with being so condescending to people who dont like the decision. @perplamps (edited)
Emilia 02-Aug-19 07:26 AM
@Evey he can always take a step back and walk away from the chat for a bit instead of becoming rude
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:26 AM
@perplamps I'm glad you're getting paid for your work. Unfortunately, you found a benefactor at the expense of those like me. That makes me sad. I was willing to offer you money via alternative means to get the game at release. Apparently that is impossible and I am entitled
turtlebyte 02-Aug-19 07:27 AM
There's nothing wrong with taking the money. It helps with development and keeps the lights on. It's a respectable decision. Now, attacking people disagreeing with that decision is what's at issue. https://www.gamespot.com/articles/no-mans-sky-dev-explains-why-staying-silent-can-be/1100-6468323/ (edited)
Sometimes saying nothing at all is better than trying to "placate" players, Sean Murray says amid Fallout 76, Sea of Thieves, and Anthem struggles.
alantarrr 02-Aug-19 07:27 AM
@Vatticson thanks for replying...I have so many questions! ha. Hopefully I'll catch up soon
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:27 AM
@Iota I appreciate that it's frustrating. we definitely don't want to keep you out in the cold and from what I can tell, Epic is adding more currencies and things to get more international customers
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 02-Aug-19 07:27 AM
They were already being payed. What was Patreon?
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 07:28 AM
@Revy-Scary-Skeleton Patreon is not a stable way to be paid on a 2 person team
----- 02-Aug-19 07:28 AM
@alantarrr Epic is controversial due to a mix of a lot of things. For me, it's that it doesn't support my country's currency, but it's not a killer for me because I came here to support Ooblets and - if Epic stepping in will greatly help the game's success - I'm all for it and I'm happy for the developers. I can only hope that they will eventually support my country's currency, especially if Patreons aren't getting a copy of the game at launch. For others, the feature-less qualities of it are rather annoying. There are a lot of other reasons too but it's a mixture of subjective points and anedoctal evidence. Majority point to the fact that it cuts off consumer/customer option, which I do agree but - in this case - I think that grievances should be towards the one who made the deal to have exclusivity, which is Epic. Personally, I don't think that the developers should be shouted at for it. Game development is expensive; I've followed enough to know that it's much more expensive than the "1 million sales" news that media would like you to believe. Having something passionate to labour on doesn't make the effort of that labour any less nor relaxing but rather more stressful because there's more of yourself that you have to meet for expectations behind the game's success. To be frank, even I would take Epic's deal if I were developing a video game because the video game market is rough and over-saturated.
🙏 3
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 07:28 AM
@Not A Banana The amount of people that find them rude and condescending and the amount that support them for sticking up to people's crap and bad attitudes is about 50/50 I'd say. One group is just a lot more vocal
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 07:28 AM
it's not that is not a stable way to get paid, it just wasn't enough to cover dev costs, which are way higher than what people may think
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:29 AM
@Not A Banana I've been talking through issues with folks who don't like the decision all day, spending loads of time answering emails and direct messages. I admit that I'm not going to apologize to the reddit hate mob and that rubs them the wrong way, but that's just life
47Ways 02-Aug-19 07:29 AM
@Deadly Penguin not a single person has said that they work for Epic and can fix their issues. However the Devs went out of their way to be condescending to people that have legitimate issues with EGS, and they said they are not real issues and everyone who complains is a whiny gamer baby. Of course people talk about the issue with Epic here , because the Devs tried to belittle anyone who has said issues with EGS. I'm mistyfied that you guys are actually asking why people are bringing up EGS issues here. It just looks like you didn't read the Devs blog post at all
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:30 AM
for the folks that have legitimate issues, I've been trying to discuss and have offered anyone who isn't feeling heard to email me directly to get more thought-out responses
(which anyone can still do at perplamps@gmail.com)
plate 02-Aug-19 07:30 AM
you're doing great please take some time to rest
GhostTrick 02-Aug-19 07:31 AM
@Evey it's fine to be paid. It's not fine to tell customers who might want to wait because of that, that they are entitled. The devs arent entitled to purchases either. Also @perplamps can we know how long the exclusivity deal is ? 1 year or something ?
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:31 AM
Thing is there isn't even much to discuss at this point since the deal is done, it might disappoint some people but it's not the end of the world by any accounts lol
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:31 AM
That is fair. That is all that ever needed to be expressed from the beginning. Thank you. Thank you very much for leveling with me after what I've expressed to you. @perplamps
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:32 AM
@GhostTrick we're not demanding to get the purchases, just responding to the people demanding they be able to have the game how they want it and when they want it. our exclusivity period is milestone based so it's going to vary
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 07:32 AM
in any case the deal is done, anyone who thinks they will revert it is naive. but i think there is room for valid criticism here, and PR should be handled more carefully from now on.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:32 AM
@Iota I'm sorry we couldn't come to an understanding sooner 😃
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 02-Aug-19 07:32 AM
Btw for saying they should wait for the game.... maybe a year. A YEAR is not short amount of time. Alot of things could happen in year. And the answer to wait is really.... Poopy.
Not A Banana 02-Aug-19 07:33 AM
I think you guys really underestimate how many people aren't angry but just have a "meh, guess I wont get that" opinion on things. I hope the money Epic gave you was enough to offset little to no sales, at least until you guys decide to sell on a more developed platform, as even games like AAA games like WWZ have done very poorly on Epic. Also don't act like the condescending stuff is a response to some fictional (or real? does reddit even care about a cutesy game like this?) hate mob, as the announcement itself was condescending (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:33 AM
@Revy-Scary-Skeleton right, and I get being frustrated by that. but that still doesn't entitle anyone to anything
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 07:33 AM
contract is signed so I don't think they can "revert the decision", people are mostly here to vent out why they dislike the deal and/or epic, whether it be in a rude way or a more polite way
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:33 AM
@Not A Banana I appreciate your concern
mirta000 02-Aug-19 07:33 AM
@Not A Banana they got paid the minimum amount of sales on all platforms, so yeah, they'll do fine on 0 sales.
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 07:34 AM
@47Ways dude, i've been here all day, i already heard all of it, and i also had some of those concerns, which were promptly answered by both of the devs, at this point i'm just seeing repeated arguments, yes, the epic store is not as good as steam, yes, epic as a company has issues, and so on and so forth, but complaining about that to the devs isn't going to change the fact that they already signed the contract, like it or not, if you don't want to support them, then don't, they're not forcing you to do it, they're not stealing the money out of your pocket to put into their bank accounts, it's just a game, you can live without it, and so can I, that's why I'm going to wait until the steam release, instead of releasing steam on the devs for the 19th hour in a row, also, if you have to wait a year, you're gonna get all of the updates that get released in that year when the game comes out on the next platform, so it's not like you're going to miss out on anything
Marky 02-Aug-19 07:34 AM
Moving to another platform is okay but treating fans like this is not
----- 02-Aug-19 07:34 AM
@perplamps , I got an idea: how about just set up a Google Form and then let people submit questions? Have a bot constantly point out that there's this Google Form to bring every grievance and question in relation to EGS exclusivity? After that, just set up a FAQ answering every legit question or grievance and then just have a bot share the link to that FAQ? That way, you don't need to keep repeating things. Just some open and honest responses on how this funding helps the development and that it's needed? I think that this would help a lot versus straining yourself here. >_< Emailing may just make people think that it goes to the junk bin? Just offering solutions in hopes to help reduce the spam in Discord. ><
Tom L 02-Aug-19 07:35 AM
If you think the post was rude, then you are one of those entitled people. End of story.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:35 AM
@----- I might end up having to do something like that if this spills into another day of the outrage churn, but I have been able to answer all the emails people send me
although not many people have taken me up on the offer to have an email discussion
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 07:36 AM
@Ken Kun, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Ken Kun said: Lol that's not true Tom and you know it. Stop talking out your *** pretending that post was a job well done and we're all unreasonable. You clearly deny anything anyone says
GhostTrick 02-Aug-19 07:36 AM
@Revy-Scary-Skeleton if the game is exclusive in Early Access, that's even more reasons to wait lol.
SE Toby 02-Aug-19 07:36 AM
Hullo @perplamps - sent you a DM if you ever find the time to check it out!
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:37 AM
thanks, replied
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 07:37 AM
@Not A Banana reddit might not care about the game, but they care about the EGS having another game under its exclusivity belt, which is why they'll come here with garbage arguments all day when they really arent concerned. WWZ doing poorly on epic has nothing to do with it being AAA or EGS. This may shock u but games sell on their own merit, regardless or budget, scale or store.
lonewookie 02-Aug-19 07:38 AM
Hope all is well, I think the only real mistake was probably setting up a channel like this which is a magnet for people who want to argue with less than good intentions.
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 02-Aug-19 07:38 AM
Tell me how many animal crossing/pokemon style game that are on PC. Give me a list. And then tell me why people really want to play this not just because they are" AN ENTITLED GAMER"
CommradeWolfie 02-Aug-19 07:38 AM
Why don't we all just calm down. Get together sit down around the tv have some popcorn or avacoado toast and watch Bob Ross paint happy things.
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:38 AM
I don't know why we're all so mad it's not on steam when the BIGGEST outrage should be IT'S NOT ON SWITCH AAAAAAAAAA
😂 1
Emilia 02-Aug-19 07:38 AM
I honestly don’t see these entitled people that people keep mentioning. I only see fans, that were excited and have been waiting for this game for months, being disappointed that they might not be able to play it after all. Doesn’t mean they feel entitled to anything, but I think their disappointment is valid and I think they should have a right to express it.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:39 AM
@lonewookie possibly! I'm mainly hoping to just limit how much spillover the reddit folks have on the rest of our community
Catweasel 02-Aug-19 07:39 AM
anyone who complains is from reddit. it is known with most accurate clairvoyance.
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 07:40 AM
I agree, I'd buy a Switch edition (also from itch)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:40 AM
@Emilia totally understandable that folks want to play it. I think the vast majority of people absolutely will still be able to play it but are choosing not to, and that's fine too, but it's a little disingenuous
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 07:40 AM
I sent out an email or two to perplamps and was met with adequate replies that don't brush me off instantly, so that's reassuring. Also I believe that WWZ would've absolutely done much better had it not been under an exclusivity contract, there was a lot of marketing surrounding that game and lots of people genuinely had interest up until that point.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 07:40 AM
Switch port would be a dream come true but it sounds like so much effort
Silvie 02-Aug-19 07:40 AM
It'd probably be a better pokemon game than Sun and shield though
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:41 AM
@Ken Kun I'd be happy to refund your patreon payments if you feel like that's necessary
mirta000 02-Aug-19 07:42 AM
personally I went from Twitter to Steam and seeing nice screenshots from this discord, I ended up here. I've heard about hatred for reddit here, so only from here did I discover r/Ooblets. I'm still yet to find anything on 4chan though.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 07:42 AM
I reckon I've seen some of you people arguing on this channel for 5 hours now. Surely this is getting tiring? Take a break y'all.
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 07:43 AM
@Evey Im patiently waiting for the EGS train to leave to personally let the "SWITCH PORT WHEN" horse out the gate.
turtlebyte 02-Aug-19 07:43 AM
SWITCH RELEASE WHEN
CommradeWolfie 02-Aug-19 07:43 AM
Who wants to watch Bob Ross but also paint on mario paint. Come on lets all be happy clomper
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:43 AM
See people have been calling me an epic shill all day but I'd certainly much prefer to buy off GOG, itch, etc. (and yes switch but oh boy that's a whole can of worms). But I support their decision as it's clearly the best option available to them right now
Sombodh 02-Aug-19 07:43 AM
@perplamps that's a stupidly dangerous thing to say
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 07:44 AM
I'm pretty sure that by the end of the day this will settle down, and people will realize that not having a game when it releases is not the end of the world, heck, i don't have a switch so i can't play smash, and i'm not gonna throw myself off a cliff because of it, at this point the whole thing just devolved into "which thing can i grasp to get mad, and which argument can i repeat for the 100000th time in order to seem smarter", just give it up guys, this discussion will go nowhere since everyone already has their stances on everything, just go take some air, think about if this is seriously as big as you think it is, and realize that although you might be mad about them getting enough money to actually make the game, it's not really gonna change much, just let it go my doods, doodettes, and everything in between, this is not the biggest issue of your lives, so stop treating it that way.
47Ways 02-Aug-19 07:44 AM
@Tom L how would be having issue with how condescending they were to anyone with legitimate issues about EGS is being "entitled", exactly? That doesn't make by sense whatsoever.
Domin0e 02-Aug-19 07:45 AM
Guys, you do realize getting something onto the Switch, especially as a new studio without any prior experience with Nintendo, without a publisher that has relations with them is incredibly hard, unless you have those relations yourself from previous gigs, right? Its also not as easy as just pressing a different button. there is a lot of work required for ports and a two-man team might not be able to devote time to ports at this point in development. 😉
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:45 AM
@Deadly Penguin smash is built for the switch under the nintendo umbrella for the switch alone. You cannot have it on PC or any other console. Ooblets isn't like smash. I get what is being said, but I think the comparison is weird (edited)
Timmy 02-Aug-19 07:45 AM
Wait, it's not on Switch? How dare you
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 07:46 AM
@Domin0e yes we know, they were just jokes
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 07:46 AM
wait, you're saying it actually takes EFFORT AND LABOR to make video games??
ai-shark 02-Aug-19 07:47 AM
😂 wtf is the discussion here
mirta000 02-Aug-19 07:47 AM
@Deadly Penguin unlike Nintendo's own brand though Ooblets do not carry the same amount of grandeur with it. Once this dies down, the game just dissappears off a lot of peoples lists and they'll just forget about it and move on.
OddPotato 02-Aug-19 07:47 AM
Will the EGS version support cloud saves? thank you 😃 (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 07:48 AM
@OddPotato I believe it will but can't guarantee that
it'd definitely be a goal and probably pretty easily attainable
CommradeWolfie 02-Aug-19 07:48 AM
All in all we should just realize that we will get Ooblets on steam but at a later date. I am fine with that I talked with Perps and he understand my view point. And to the people that thought he was making fun of my dad with the Under Siege reference he isn't. Just that my dad use to be in the veitnam war and was in the navy. And after he left the navy he became a professional chef. But yeah we should all get along at this point like Penguin said. I waited for Spore for years and i still enjoyed spore even though alot of the things were taken out from it. So i can wait 6 months or a year for my Clompers. But yeah lets just all enjoy some Bob Ross and popcorn.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 07:49 AM
Stop making fun of my dad
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 07:49 AM
@Iota yeah, but my life isn't over just because i can't play it, that's my point, i'm the same situation as you where my currency isn't supported by the epic store, but i'm just gonna wait, as should you, let's be real here, we don't even know if by the time they actually release the game either of our currencies will be supported, so it's not worth getting angry over it. @mirta000 I hope this dies down and everyone moves on, because neither side of the discussion is completely right, or completely wrong, and by now it just devolved into a cicle of repeating the same stuff over and over and getting angry at the answer
Silvie 02-Aug-19 07:49 AM
@mirta000 Tbh I didn't know about the game until I saw people talking about the. Going on epic, but then I looked at the game and it looks pretty good so I'll atleast keep this discord around to get @'d about it it's progress, or the mailing list
Domin0e 02-Aug-19 07:50 AM
@DorkOrca VideoGame.Make(Genre,Name,Platform,features.List.All); is all i'm going to say. 😛 @Pip Multiplayer is part of the Feature list! :< (edited)
🤖 2
❤ 2
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:50 AM
but the nintendo shop, from what I've heard, still has tons of... shovel ware. Is that the correct term, "shovel ware"?
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:50 AM
You fool! You have to assign it to a variable or no one will be able to access it!
Pip 02-Aug-19 07:51 AM
@Domin0e you forgot to check the multiplayer box, now you gotta make the whole thing again 😛 Ahh you're tacking it on, gotcha 😛 (edited)
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 07:51 AM
void make_the_game(GAME* game); void port_to_switch(GAME* game); typedef struct{ char name; int genre; int platforms }GAME; so simple !!!! (edited)
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 07:52 AM
I've been making something in pico-8 after not doing any programming for years and, wow it's a whole ordeal
brokenKitKat 02-Aug-19 07:52 AM
@Domin0e all your code looks codey, but it won't work tomorrow trust me! (edited)
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 07:53 AM
Perp, seriously PIN THE ANSWERS to common sensible questions at least You keep taking the bait on things and the way you respond gets people mad or is exactly the reaction trolls want (and likely some might use as ammo against you)
CommradeWolfie 02-Aug-19 07:53 AM
Also yeah i find it sad i have to wait longer for Ooblets but i think thats a pretty good deal make me wait make my excitement for Ooblets bigger. So i can get my Clompers and Radlads and Moogys and Pantsabears. So yeah lets just hope Ooblets does well with Epic so we can get it for other platforms.
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 07:54 AM
@Iota nintendo eshop is full of games that are basically mobile ports poorly optimized, they release like 30 per week and many of them only sell when discounted to 0.99€, is unsustainable
Domin0e 02-Aug-19 07:55 AM
@Honeyxilia Shouldn't that be a char[] for the name? :P Tho my Cpp is a little rusty.
Silvie 02-Aug-19 07:55 AM
Alot of mobile games have pretty big teams, companies and money behind them though to secure a place on the eshop, that's why Nintendo doesn't care about the state of those games they get the money upfront unlike their own games which need to sell
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:56 AM
will I get shot for saying std::string
SpellingBee 02-Aug-19 07:57 AM
Yes
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 07:57 AM
@Domin0e shhhhh @Evey oh snap clocks finger guns (edited)
Cbajd5 02-Aug-19 07:58 AM
Porting to switch is definitely a complicated endeavor in most cases, but Bandai Namco has trained us to show enthusiasm for Switch ports at all times if we ever want them. (still waiting for one piece world seeker)
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:59 AM
being from Iran, I don't actually have access to the nintendo store. Thank you for the answers @JC_ADX (edited)
OddPotato 02-Aug-19 08:04 AM
Since ooblets will sell 1 million minimum does that mean epic offered you 30 million dollars? && will there be any extra ooblet features or additions because of the epic money? (edited)
TheBebopCowboy 02-Aug-19 08:04 AM
Just read this news about Epic. A little disappointed.
butterfly 02-Aug-19 08:09 AM
who said it will sell 1 million?
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 08:10 AM
so much approximations you look like a engineer (as everybody know, e*π = g) (edited)
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 08:12 AM
since ooblets will sell 500 trillion copies does that mean you own epic games and also all other companies now?
Silvie 02-Aug-19 08:21 AM
Oblongs is the next minceraft and castleevening
Timmy 02-Aug-19 08:21 AM
@OddPotato They got 1 month of Fortnite revenue
Revy-Scary-Skeleton 02-Aug-19 08:25 AM
https://steamcommunity.com/app/593150/discussions/0/1741102632991285495/ So just found out the devs full on lied to us, absolutely disgusting
With so many indie devs flocking to Epic, I can't help but wonder if one of my most anticipated games of 2019 is still coming to Steam. And for the record, I'm not here to argue with other users whether Epic is saving us all or not. I'm done with that discussion. All I want t...
MinasMorGhoul 02-Aug-19 08:26 AM
They did not lie to you. They made the deal well after that, most likely.
tengblad 02-Aug-19 08:26 AM
I mean, not really. The plan just changed, as plans tend to do?
perplamps 02-Aug-19 08:27 AM
@Revy-Scary-Skeleton sorry my dude, I'm gonna have to ban you, you're clearly a troll
beccerrrs 02-Aug-19 08:27 AM
The deal with Epic most likely came up after this was answered, and plans can change
EmiliusTheAwesome 02-Aug-19 08:27 AM
Every time someone is about to sneeze and then they don't are you like 'Hey they are a liar!'
perplamps 02-Aug-19 08:27 AM
@Revy-Scary-Skeleton you're fanning the flames in a totally bad faith way
Silvie 02-Aug-19 08:28 AM
They did say the plan is, not will
perplamps 02-Aug-19 08:28 AM
not gonna ban this time, but obvious trolling will result in a ban
yeshellomynameischilly 02-Aug-19 08:30 AM
Oh, a new channel! What's so epic about it? (I'm still lost. Is Ooblets coming to epic instead of steam?) (Well whatever works! I'll be supporting these guys all the way) (edited)
👍 3
EmiliusTheAwesome 02-Aug-19 08:31 AM
Ken Kun's epic levels of snark
Iota 02-Aug-19 08:31 AM
Gamer^^tm, how do you superscript (edited)
Evey 02-Aug-19 08:33 AM
Yes ooblets has made a deal with the epic store
Iota 02-Aug-19 08:36 AM
After today's interactions, it is seeming like a more understandable reaction to the recent happenings
jeeb 02-Aug-19 08:39 AM
❤️ to the ooblets team. So happy you have found funding to make ooblets the best game it can be. Been here since ‘Moblets’ and won’t be leaving anytime soon.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 08:40 AM
thanks so much @jeeb !
I just got finished writing an epic faq but since it's totally died down in here I feel like posting it just might rekindle everything
I'll wait until a bit later to see if it picks up again
Iota 02-Aug-19 08:42 AM
You might want to post for future posterity (edited)
Omakehell 02-Aug-19 08:42 AM
Epic faq? Why a faq for a platform isn't yours it's like doing a faq for the Xbox or something Edit 2 the slowmode sucks Edit 3: ah I see still I don't see a use but that's sensible Edit 4 . If people wanna complain they will complain no matter the faq. (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 08:44 AM
a faq about the common stuff people are bringing up or asking us about epic @Omakehell
beccerrrs 02-Aug-19 08:44 AM
@Omakehell im assuming the FAQ is for the questions the Devs have been getting about everything
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 08:44 AM
i don´t think is a bad idea to clarify things. and if people keep asking, the FAQ is there and can save more trouble
realmiatahours 02-Aug-19 08:45 AM
no more evil gamer babies
yeshellomynameischilly 02-Aug-19 08:47 AM
I'm more of a lawful neutral gamer baby
Evey 02-Aug-19 08:47 AM
you're one of those enlightened centrist gamer babies? ew
😔 1
Omakehell 02-Aug-19 08:48 AM
Lawful neutral is for babies, the only way forward is being lawful good, for the emperor
burn the heretic, kill the mutants and Purge the unclean and all that
(edited)
SIETSO 02-Aug-19 08:51 AM
Sounds like Alex Jones.
Domin0e 02-Aug-19 08:52 AM
We all know there is only one proper alignment. Chaotic Neutral.
Evey 02-Aug-19 08:53 AM
psh you kids with your 9 alignments, if you played 4e you were lucky to have five
paulloz 02-Aug-19 08:54 AM
lol don't tell people they're kids if you weren't there for dnd2
Omakehell 02-Aug-19 08:54 AM
Straight no that's heresy
Peregrine23 02-Aug-19 08:55 AM
Hey, I saw this morning that the reddit has become overrun by the Epic hate. Just wanted to jump in and say I am still very much looking forward to buying and playing this game on whatever platform/s you choose to release it.
Taylor 02-Aug-19 08:55 AM
Same here.
yeshellomynameischilly 02-Aug-19 08:55 AM
Big same
realmiatahours 02-Aug-19 08:56 AM
upvoted, fellow redditor
EmiliusTheAwesome 02-Aug-19 08:56 AM
I and many others care, thanks Peregrine23
☝ 8
Charu 02-Aug-19 08:57 AM
@Clownman that’s not very nice
Katieemmaw 02-Aug-19 08:58 AM
Amen to Peregrine!
Epicarious 02-Aug-19 08:58 AM
Too bad the Epic Games Store doesn't have regional pricing for my country, unlike Steam. So to get this game I'll have to pay more money. ☹ Slow mode so I'm just going to edit here. Yeah, I used to live there and keep it that way since I don't want people to know my real location and know more English speaking people. You realise you can change it regardless of your actual location right? @EmiliusTheAwesome (edited)
John John 02-Aug-19 08:59 AM
@Clownman hey man don't be toxic
EmiliusTheAwesome 02-Aug-19 08:59 AM
oh really because your steam profile says you're from United States @Epicarious (edited)
b00 02-Aug-19 08:59 AM
Emiliussss that's too hot of tea
fleeble 1
Pathogen-David 02-Aug-19 09:00 AM
💯
yeshellomynameischilly 02-Aug-19 09:00 AM
My favorite thing about this community was how wholesome and positive and respectful everyone is towards eachother. I'd very much like for it to stay that way.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 09:00 AM
also, having to pay for something at a price dictated by the seller CANNOT be what all this anger is about. I thought people were saying they couldn't use the payment options or something in other currencies
realmiatahours 02-Aug-19 09:01 AM
too bad @Epicarious, you will have to live with it. nobody owes you regional pricing sweetie.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 09:01 AM
you guys gotta be kidding me if that's what this is
Juwdah 02-Aug-19 09:01 AM
wowzie
Katieemmaw 02-Aug-19 09:03 AM
Let's all remember to stay rad radladrad
paulloz 02-Aug-19 09:04 AM
@yeshellomynameischilly sadly i guess those times are over now bristlebud
🚫 1
❌ 1
Evey 02-Aug-19 09:04 AM
It'll cool down again in time
morningstar 02-Aug-19 09:05 AM
oh god its cooled down considerably. epixarious youre right but pls remember some of them have been t this for over 12 hours and theyre tired as heck. a lot of good faith comments were the first one in a series of escalating hate (edited)
Epicarious 02-Aug-19 09:05 AM
@realmiatahours There's literally no reason for you to be rude. I just mentioned something I would miss about the Steam store. Nothing else. Didn't say anyone owes me anything. My first message on this Discord and I already get two super defensive replies. Is criticism not allowed here (and is what I said even criticism)?
b00 02-Aug-19 09:05 AM
It's warrrrrrrr GWmythicalGhostHug GWmythicalGhostHug GWmythicalGhostHug
perplamps 02-Aug-19 09:06 AM
@Epicarious criticism is allowed here, no worries. I think folks have heard the regional pricing thing A LOT and got a bit tired of it
yeshellomynameischilly 02-Aug-19 09:06 AM
This is going to blow over, and Ooblets will be fun, and adorable, and I'm going to stream the ever loving crap out of it. But until then, we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.
Juwdah 02-Aug-19 09:07 AM
I enter the chat and saw that deleted message, @perplamps keep up the fine work, hopefully all the hate doesn't get you too much stress 😦
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 09:07 AM
I mean it's very understandable that people want to protect the product, but the discussion should stay around EGS and not how much we love the game imo. Mostly I would like to know if Ooblets would come to steam at a later date, has that been answered here?
Charu 02-Aug-19 09:07 AM
I feel like a lot of you are incels
realmiatahours 02-Aug-19 09:07 AM
excuse me? how are we incels sweetie. you sound like a butthurt gamer
perplamps 02-Aug-19 09:07 AM
thanks @Juwdah yep, I've been having to delete all sorts of nastiness but I think the trolls are generally tiring themselves out
we were nearly getting to a civil level of discourse in here for a while, let's try to get back there
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 09:08 AM
Can we please delete Ooblets? That'll solve all of these problems. joke (edited)
paulloz 02-Aug-19 09:09 AM
people thinking things are cool now obviously don't know how everything was secure and nice down here before the bandwagon of stupidness and toxicity hit us yesterday
Evey 02-Aug-19 09:09 AM
Too small a scope. Let's delete the internet instead, that'll solve a whole world of problems
morningstar 02-Aug-19 09:10 AM
i did come here to offer support for the devs after the dumb reaction so this makes sense. also yes the intrnet was a mistake. (edited)
Joe 02-Aug-19 09:10 AM
people arnt happy unless there amgry
perplamps 02-Aug-19 09:11 AM
yeah, we've had our discord members basically double overnight, so you can imagine the level of crud that's been thrust upon the server
Baloo 02-Aug-19 09:12 AM
@perplamps would you say you were mostly aware of the issues people having been bringing up in regards to the epic store before you made the announcement?
realmiatahours 02-Aug-19 09:12 AM
i too came here to offer my support, or what little i can give-- i think it's absolutely ridiculous how honest developers can be shunned simply for switching to a platform like Epic-- which is honestly better for everyone involved. i can only hope that the doubling of members carries some good people with it.
John John 02-Aug-19 09:13 AM
@perplamps will there be trans representation in this game? i'm asking because i have a trans girlfriend
ElektrikOnion 02-Aug-19 09:13 AM
Glad things have chilled out compared to yesterday, still super looking forward to the game ❤
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Taylor 02-Aug-19 09:14 AM
I just joined and I would like to offer my support. Sure EGS isn't the best thing at this moment, but I'm not going to hassle people that want to take a lucrative deal. At the end of the day, it's just a game.
paulloz 02-Aug-19 09:15 AM
ooblets doesn't have a notion of gender
EmiliusTheAwesome 02-Aug-19 09:15 AM
@Epicarious Yeah I apologise that came out ruder than it needed to be. By now I am very tired of hearing the same arguments come up, often by the same people ignoring the responses they had to those concerns in the past and confused you with those people. Voicing your concerns in a civil way as you did is perfectly valid. (edited)
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 09:15 AM
And as long as it isn't EGS exclusive forever it's fine, I and many other people can wait to buy it.
GammaGames 02-Aug-19 09:16 AM
Was Double Fine helping fund the game when you were still partnered with them? (edited)
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 09:17 AM
@Iota, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Iota said: Yo yo
Joe 02-Aug-19 09:17 AM
to be honest without the outcry I wouldnt of found this discord, ive been following on twitter for months cos of those mocap animations and didnt know there was a massive community for it. I'm a 3d artist myself and know the struggle of funding and personally I really like epic games. Although theres been a lot of heat with the exclusives they're doing, They have always supported artists heavily and the ridiculous profits they made from fortnite went straight into helping creators in the unreal marketplace which gets a lot of brownie points for me personally
MarkGrant 02-Aug-19 09:17 AM
Everyone complaining about regional pricing which I get but to be fair, my country only finally got regional pricing on steam about 8 months ago so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. It sucks, but not a show stopper for me. (edited)
morningstar 02-Aug-19 09:18 AM
lucky you my country still doesnt have regional support edit: lmao yall this is a joke nd also i dont give an f about the regional support (edited)
John John 02-Aug-19 09:19 AM
your fault for living in a third world country
Evey 02-Aug-19 09:19 AM
I knew there'd be a backlash which is why I came to have my say tbh
realmiatahours 02-Aug-19 09:19 AM
resorting to piracy? did you know that is illegal-- not only that, you are also effectively stealing from the honest developers who are trying to make a living. if you want to play the game, you should buy it. i since see the post has been deleted, but this still goes.
Taylor 02-Aug-19 09:19 AM
It's funny how that thing with Steam's summer sale event and how it accidentally got people to delete games from their wishlist got swept under the rug, but if EGS sneezes then everybody loses their minds.
yeshellomynameischilly 02-Aug-19 09:20 AM
John, you want trans representation, but you're gonna insult someone based on where they come from? What on earth are your values
arboretic 02-Aug-19 09:20 AM
@Joe as a fellow 3d artist i couldn’t agree more. been looking forward to this game for a while but after seeing all the hate i immediately pledged on patreon and joined here
jeeb 02-Aug-19 09:21 AM
John John is here to subtly troll
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 09:21 AM
Gave them more money on top of the lump sum they got from EGS? @arboretic yikers
GammaGames 02-Aug-19 09:21 AM
The steam summer sale thing was because people didn't understand what a instructions said, and I heard about it for days after they had clarified the rules.
paulloz 02-Aug-19 09:22 AM
yeah, don't engage in a talk with that person
MarkGrant 02-Aug-19 09:23 AM
😂 feels awkward when Australia gets called a third world country
gloopylonglegs 4
realmiatahours 02-Aug-19 09:24 AM
@Hotgayboy just because EGS has paid the developers of this wonderful game does not mean people shouldn't support them any further. supporting developers makes it better for everyone-- happier developers make better games, better games make happier players.
Taylor 02-Aug-19 09:24 AM
I'm glad you have surrounded yourself with people that aren't biased, GammaGames, but I'm in this one Discord where anything EGS does there's a 200 message wall about how they're so bad, but none of them had anything to say whenever people point out how not very perfect Steam is. It's just annoying how agenda driven these people are. They don't care about competition. They just don't want to bother with making multiple accounts. (edited)
John John 02-Aug-19 09:25 AM
a troll? excuse me but who are you to judge, i am entitled to own opinions
jeeb 02-Aug-19 09:26 AM
Ya sorry I have judged lol. Your opinions seem like trolling bud
arboretic 02-Aug-19 09:27 AM
@Hotgayboy it was more just because people were posting about unpledging but i’m also sure they could use the extra couple bucks 🤷🏻‍♂️ id definitely need a beer or something after spending all night banning trolls lmao
Joe 02-Aug-19 09:28 AM
3d gang @arboretic 🤠 🔫
seemaq 02-Aug-19 09:31 AM
how is this channel still in slow mode. lmao it’s FIVE minutes now (edited)
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 09:32 AM
The traffic may pick up again at a later date, it's better for them to keep it slow @seemaq
perplamps 02-Aug-19 09:32 AM
it was getting very spicy at 4am lol
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 09:32 AM
Because the hate brigade is still going
perplamps 02-Aug-19 09:32 AM
had to curtail it
Trace 02-Aug-19 09:32 AM
Good lord I hope there are a lot of mod/admin type people... or the burnout will be real.
realmiatahours 02-Aug-19 09:33 AM
the hate brigade is slightly cooled off now-- but it unfortunately still isn't over. these people have way too much time on their hands in my opinion.
Katieemmaw 02-Aug-19 09:33 AM
gives cookies to anyone moderating this place 🍪
perplamps 02-Aug-19 09:33 AM
the slow chat I think does help people spend a bit more time thinking out what they're going to say
Raekai 02-Aug-19 09:34 AM
Good morning, guys. Another day of this should be fun. I'm gonna post the thing again. I think it can be summed up as this: (1) Some people don't like EGS, Epic, Tencent, etc. Probably for some good reasons. It seems like some people don't trust their security, some people can't use the launcher in their region, etc. (2) Some people feel like there has been a minor bait and switch because the devs have led them to believe that Ooblets would launch on Steam. (3a) Some people felt like the humor in the blog post had a very poor tone. (3b) Some people feel like the responses from the devs have had a very poor tone and that they are acting like dismissive jerks. Now, in each of these ideas, there is legitimate concern, surely. The legitimate concern is being drowned out by the trolls, which is unfortunate because the legitimate concern is likely coming from long-time fans who have also supported the game through Patreon and/or buying merchandise (like myself) and feel like they already have money or stake in this. (I get it. I don't support/like/trust Epic, but I do support/like/trust Ooblets. Even then, I don't want to download another launcher—I don't want to use EGS for games when I have Steam like I don't want to use Facebook for communication when I have Gmail even though it's that easy to just sign up because I don't support/like/trust Facebook.) Are the devs acting like jerks? Well, it kind of seems that way, but it's hard to be definitive with that answer. (So much has gotten blown up at this point.) Ultimately, the devs aren't going to undo this deal with Epic. Why would they? It's great for them! (And that makes me happy!) It's just inconvenient for me and for some others. (And that makes me bummed!) Ultimately, according to the devs, the game will eventually be coming to Steam. The exclusivity ends after an undisclosed milestone that relates to Early Access, 1.0, etc. That's it. Please let me know if I missed anything.
paulloz 02-Aug-19 09:35 AM
you missed the fact that, no, another day of this should not be fun imho
Kumi 02-Aug-19 09:38 AM
Why did you guys turn off reactions?
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dancinglegsy 8
GammaGames 02-Aug-19 09:38 AM
@Raekai 100% this. I'm bummed but at the end of the day I can wait a year for it to come to a platform I want to support. Why can't we react- yeah what they said (edited)
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 09:39 AM
@Kumi reactions were used to say nasty stuff yesterday.
catpaws 02-Aug-19 09:44 AM
I'm sad about having to wait for another year too, but oh well
realmiatahours 02-Aug-19 09:45 AM
having to wait a year is not so bad when you consider the developers benefit from this greatly-- and they deserve it.
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 09:47 AM
I mean do they really have to research the launcher they're being hosted on if they're getting money for just being there? @qwertyman 🤔
perplamps 02-Aug-19 09:47 AM
@qwertyman I know what regional pricing is. I thought the people who were upset in regard to regions were upset because they couldn't use their regional payment methods or something like that. I wasn't expecting that they were complaining that games are at a price point they don't like
hmaon 02-Aug-19 09:48 AM
I'm not waiting a year but I want to support the EGS.
Cbajd5 02-Aug-19 09:51 AM
wait, i am confused by the but in that statement
jeeb 02-Aug-19 09:52 AM
does anyone have examples of specific locations and price differences? I'm just curious, ignorant cause i live in good ole north carolina
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 09:52 AM
YEEHAW
perplamps 02-Aug-19 09:52 AM
ah sorry I don't think Epic accepts North Carolina Dollars
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😉
paulloz 02-Aug-19 09:53 AM
legsyrun
Giorno Giovanna 02-Aug-19 09:55 AM
Question: If Epic guarantee sales after launch, what is stopping devs from making a half-baked game?
EmiliusTheAwesome 02-Aug-19 09:55 AM
why would they want to make a half-baked game?
bhibli 02-Aug-19 09:56 AM
Love the sass hehe. I've been using egs to play dauntless for a couple months. Haven't had any issues. Lookin forward to ooblets :) (edited)
firmo 1
b00 02-Aug-19 09:58 AM
I call everyone sweetie it's not gender specific... (not that it was me)
paulloz 02-Aug-19 09:58 AM
is that a real question or is it just trolling? people making games actually care about what they're putting out there, believe it or not. they're not going to screw up years of their lives to make a half-baked game just because it's release on a platform or another. (edited)
FamSlayer 02-Aug-19 09:58 AM
is there a way for me to wishlist ooblets on EGS?
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 10:00 AM
They haven't programmed that feature yet
seemaq 02-Aug-19 10:01 AM
wow, you guys removed a lot of reasonable posts from your subreddit
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realmiatahours 02-Aug-19 10:03 AM
many posts don't add much to the discussion at this point-- alot of the things that are less good about EGS have been said.
Giorno Giovanna 02-Aug-19 10:04 AM
@paulloz Sadly, you are wrong. A lot of devs are in it for the money. If epic is guaranteeing sales post launch, I can see some devs putting less work into their games because it would not matter since they are getting those sales no matter what. The post-launch gurenteeed sales bothers me the most about these exclusivity deals. What
Paladin Knight 02-Aug-19 10:04 AM
@seemaq Yeah they removed posts and restricted the sub (edited)
b00 02-Aug-19 10:05 AM
Fair point
seemaq 02-Aug-19 10:06 AM
@realmiatahours i think there was a massive post summarizing the “terrible development process” @jeeb I’m reading it on ceddit rn, doesn’t really look toxic. It also had more upvotes than any other post last time I checked (edited)
jeeb 02-Aug-19 10:07 AM
@seemaq well that's a pretty toxic post
paulloz 02-Aug-19 10:08 AM
rofl ok that is a strong point giorno, i was wrong all alone and we're all making games for the insane amount of money it provides. deep apologies lmao (edited)
Evey 02-Aug-19 10:08 AM
"A lot of game devs are in it for the money" best laugh I've had in months
realmiatahours 02-Aug-19 10:08 AM
why do you assume a word that many people use in a gender-neutral way to carry a hateful message? i personally don't aim to emasculate anyone with my usage of the word sweetie. side note: sounding like a woman is not a bad thing nor an insult. though i apologize if you feel that i insulted you in any way @qwertyman
Paladin Knight 02-Aug-19 10:09 AM
@jeeb they deleted a post from someone who was a patron for 2 years also so at this point they really need to get a PR person cus this is gonna look worse and worse
perplamps 02-Aug-19 10:10 AM
yep, sorry, the ooblets subreddit isn't something I have the time to moderate and it's not a place to be nasty, you'll have to take that here or to my emails
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 10:10 AM
I mean they have probably signed a contract they cannot back out of, not that I actually know, but it would seem we can't persuade them to back out of it at this point and backing out would show WEAKNESS. At most we can do is wistfully gaze at the development process.
Cbajd5 02-Aug-19 10:11 AM
there's really no reason for them to back out though?
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 10:12 AM
I don't think any length of support on patreon makes you invincible to discipline if you cross the line
Medea 02-Aug-19 10:12 AM
@Paladin Knight why would the patrons matter? that money isn't needed anymore. they can do what they want now (edited)
AhadielGames 02-Aug-19 10:13 AM
They are a company. The more money the better really. They just aren't taking crap from people for their decision to move to EGS.
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Giorno Giovanna 02-Aug-19 10:13 AM
@Cbajd5 Nope. They are getting paid for development, and they will be paid again after the game launches. 0 people can buy the game and it wouldn't matter.
realmiatahours 02-Aug-19 10:14 AM
i am not sexist at all. i do not appreciate that accusation @qwertyman . i am not ''playing dumb'' either-- i'm not sure why you think i am. either way i would prefer this to not continue as we are straying from the purpose of this channel.
Paladin Knight 02-Aug-19 10:17 AM
@perplamps aren't developers of games etc not allowed to moderate their subreddit as shown by reddit reddiquette https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette
Take moderation positions in a community where your profession, employment, or biases could pose a direct conflict of interest to the neutral and user driven nature of reddit.
seemaq 02-Aug-19 10:17 AM
@Sym 📌📌📌
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Medea 02-Aug-19 10:17 AM
@AhadielGames I don't disagree with you, but they no longer have to humor "fans" to be successful anymore. So things like good PR aren't as critical to generate goodwill -> get more fans -> sell more product. It's just a different (marketing-independent) approach
SKINNYERIC1 02-Aug-19 10:19 AM
@Paladin Knight reddiquette is not enforced rules, its just suggested community guidelines.
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 10:19 AM
I'm pretty sure he said he doesn't have the time to moderate it
AhadielGames 02-Aug-19 10:20 AM
This is one game. The money they get won't last forever. After all the running costs etc there won't be a great deal for them personally to just retire off. They will need to make expansions, more games, hopefully expand the team etc. This one deal won't make them successful in the long term. And yeah, it's already taking a ton of effort just to moderate Discord xD (edited)
Evey 02-Aug-19 10:21 AM
reddiquette -> informal guidelines -> no necessity to enforce discord ToS -> formal rules -> enforced as necessary
lighten 02-Aug-19 10:21 AM
@Kurtosis there’s a vast difference between rules and etiquette so yes if you don’t follow the rules you’ll most likely be banned
SkyShard 02-Aug-19 10:25 AM
Still sucks to have some valid criticism deleted in the sub because some people got nasty, a lot of it's been backed up on the wayback machine though so there's not real harm
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Crumchyy 02-Aug-19 10:25 AM
its usually not the same in dollars and in other currencys
Raekai 02-Aug-19 10:27 AM
A fine line is being walked, methinks, between silencing the trolls and silencing people with legitimate and valid concerns and feelings. Silencing backlash doesn't usually work well. It perpetuates the frustration instead of answering it or letting it blow over.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 10:27 AM
we're not deleting comments, just clearing out all the brigading threads
and by we i mean me
Evey 02-Aug-19 10:27 AM
well he's said at all times to contact him either here or by email rather than on reddit so i'm not gonna lose sleep over some deleted reddit threads
Trace 02-Aug-19 10:28 AM
I'm still trying to process "game devs are in it for the money". I could spend the time I spend working on games walking down the street looking for loose change and make more money than most indie games do once everything is paid for. This is their first release, right? That's a huge deal and if it were me I'd be making it the most amazing game possible because a) it's going to color how people see everything I make from then on and b) it's my baby and I want it to thrive. Having the money to do things well and not starve is just going to make making a better game more possible.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 10:28 AM
@paulloz, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@paulloz said: I think some of you fail to understand that it's not easy for one person to filter out thousand of hateful *. so yeah, it's basically necessary to overmoderate at this point.
Snagglewolf 02-Aug-19 10:29 AM
Yeah this idea that keeps coming up about how lucrative indie games are apparently is hilarious.
Charu 02-Aug-19 10:30 AM
@qwertyman I agree with all your points and they’re deleting them (edited)
seemaq 02-Aug-19 10:30 AM
they’re not deleting comments tho, they’re deleting posts
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 10:31 AM
sorry my dudes, the slack we're giving the obvious trolls is gonna have to be tightened
Crumchyy 02-Aug-19 10:31 AM
btw for me the regional pricing is always like around 5% higher than the price in dollars so idk
Medea 02-Aug-19 10:32 AM
the only issue with EGS and pricing is that they monopolize where a game is sold so they can keep a game price artificially high (sometimes RAISING it after exclusivity is attained - see the price history of the latest Anno game) - which is obviously beneficial for Epic/devs/etc. so that's a point of clashing between consumers/sellers and could be argued either way (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 10:34 AM
@Medea I believe devs set pricing across stores
Baloo 02-Aug-19 10:35 AM
Oh wow the Ooblets subreddit is trending (this is almost certainly very old news)
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Lodeman 02-Aug-19 10:35 AM
So how often is this discord timer limited 😄 I hope to see it in it's normal form in the future 😃
Taylor 02-Aug-19 10:35 AM
I'm sure it'll be a while
celtchar 02-Aug-19 10:35 AM
Ignoring the fact that developers of games should not moderate their subreddits, if you don't have the time or desire to moderate it you should give control to somebody who does. You've purged all discussion from reddit and directed people to discord. I think reddit admins might understandably have a problem with that...
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 10:36 AM
you should have more moderators on your subreddit if you can’t moderate it by yourself 👀👀 it’s 10 minutes now (edited)
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LeoKira997 02-Aug-19 10:36 AM
is two minute slow mode really necessary? it is painfully long and annoying to try and talk to someone and have a conversation, can it be lowered?
AhadielGames 02-Aug-19 10:36 AM
What we need is for Steam to drop their cut enough to make it more in line with Epic's because right now their better interface and feature set will make it more appealing. It will force Epic to step up their game because they won't be able to offer these deals to everyone. This is just a market share stunt on their end but they can only do so much with it.
Evey 02-Aug-19 10:37 AM
They've had less than 24 hours to manage this, they can't magic up moderators at will
paulloz 02-Aug-19 10:37 AM
@Trace thanks for wording exactly the kind of message i would've written about that subject if i had a tiny bit of patience left in me
Audasaurus Rex 02-Aug-19 10:37 AM
after yesterday slow mode is definitely necessary.
Critter Cove 02-Aug-19 10:38 AM
As an Indie developer it is brutal way to try and make a living, mostly because of the complete lack of any of the established companies helping with discoverability. That is the biggest problem indies face. Instead of this being an Epic vs Steam issue we should be asking the question, "why is Steam not doing some of these same things that Epic is doing to help promote, fund and support the indies that helped make them successful". Honestly I hope that is what comes out of this long term.
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Raekai 02-Aug-19 10:39 AM
When trolls are silenced at the cost of legitimate criticism, it gets pretty icky. Now, I'm not saying that's what happened—I'm offering a general perspective. Furthermore, in the case of the money, I think people may also be upset about a lack of transparency in this case. The devs have been pretty transparent—they announced that they were self-publishing and that everything was fine. Suddenly, Epic deal. I understand how that could seem weird for sure. Especially when there are other options like Kickstarter (which was dismissed as giving even more power to gamer babies, I guess). Also, 10-minute slowmode is a bit much. snurfler (edited)
EmMyshuno 02-Aug-19 10:43 AM
I don't think 10 minutes is too much. It's been the same arguments all over again for 24 hours now. Granted by different people, but I think points have been heard. Unfortunately we've seen some pretty bad trolling flooding the articulated remarks. It might seem a lot, but I feel it's for the best.
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paulloz 02-Aug-19 10:47 AM
@Raekai the issue is when you can't even see legitimate criticism because it is drowned under bags and bags of mud and hatespeech. at one point it's better for everybody to call a timeout and wait so only the people able to talk in a civilized manner are still around. (i do not follow the subreddit so i don't know what the situation over there is) (edited)
seemaq 02-Aug-19 10:50 AM
hatespeech posts seemed to be the minority
Taylor 02-Aug-19 10:51 AM
you also can't see stuff that was deleted for obvious reasons
kejjywithcats 02-Aug-19 10:51 AM
I doubt they could have said anything relating to epic until the deal went through. They've so far been more transparent on the benefit they get from Epic than other devs who sign with them
Arq 02-Aug-19 10:53 AM
@Critter Cove This is always my point about the Steam vs. Epic war. Why people aren't complaining about Steam that doesn't move a finger to help indies? Epic are doing their things just because Steam let them (meanwhile it's not like Steam doesn't have enough power/money to do something eh), so people should be mad to Steam that doesn't care more about their customers than the others. I'm not saying Epic are the good guys, I understand why people can dislike it for several reasons (my position is "whatever"), but if you like Steam that much complain to them to do something so indie games you like will be released on the platform you like. Don't be mad to indie devs that only want to find solution so they don't bankrupt and and they can peacefully make the game the way they wanted. Then us, players, can have the best experience at the end. @Raekai : EGS has more issues as a customer. Meanwhile it has less as an indie dev. It's still a position thing. (edited)
Raekai 02-Aug-19 10:55 AM
Censoring blatant hate-speech is one thing. Casting too wide a net on criticism is another. They have been very transparent. I can still see how some people would feel bummed. I'll complain about Steam. I acknowledge that Steam has issues. I feel that EGS has more.
Critter Cove 02-Aug-19 10:56 AM
@arc Yep that about sums it up. If you don't get that then not sure what else to say about it.
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 10:58 AM
The main problem with the EGS is on the consumer side. I´m sure that maybe some people that criticise Epic could change their minds if they are in the developer situation, and can even understand them. But what devs must also understand is that EGS has legitimate issues and problems that consumers are right to report and complain about.
hotcereal 02-Aug-19 10:59 AM
let's talk about the real issue: the xbox one sucks, let's pick a different console altogether
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LetsGetPixeled 02-Aug-19 10:59 AM
Hey I've got some questions about epic deals in genral would it be possible to ask those here's I got a whole write up
SyntheticTeapot 02-Aug-19 11:01 AM
Why don't they do an AMA like Frogwares did to professionally answer any of the questions and concerns people have? I just don't get why they are deleting posts on the ooblets subreddit. It gets more and more disappointing the more this goes on.
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EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 11:02 AM
Steam doesn't need to drop their cut. They already sort of did it before EGS was even a thing, but it really applies more to the bigger developers, given the huge amounts of money they have to earn for the cuts to be lowered in the first place ($10 million in sales - 25%, $50 million in sales - 20%). Valve helps indies and AAA companies alike enough by providing them everything they need (that isn't money), from something as simple as cloud saves to more complicated things like multiplayer API. The entirety of Steamworks would tell you all you need to know. Yes, maybe 30% is too much, but it's the industry standard that is not exclusive to Valve, you would have to complain about everyone who does it. Valve hasn't responded to Epic's shenanigans at all aside from commenting that it isn't fair on the Metro Exodus situation, and after that they just didn't say anything on the situation and continued working on their other projects, such as Steam Play, SteamVR, the 3 VR titles, other projects we may not know of, the Steam Library overhaul (date unknown still). Valve also funds VR developers so they can work on things no strings attached, as far as I know. To say that Valve does absolutely nothing would be wrong, especially with how much good they do for the consumers, and the Linux community more specifically. But Valve Time exists, so it is understandable that people say they do basically nothing. When it comes to Epic, they have not done very much for the consumer aside from enabling developers to offer consumers a lower price while still earning a tiny bit more than if they went on Steam with a higher price. Only Metro Exodus made use of this (for the US only, at that), however, everyone else remained at their base prices so it's not really a win for consumers since developers would rather earn money (understandably), which is what the lower cut is for. There is also crossplay that Epic helped kickstart, so that's another thing you can add to the list I guess. (edited)
TheWanderingBen 02-Aug-19 11:03 AM
There are horrible parts of the internet that y'all are being exposed to right now. Doing my part to balance the flames. Making games is more terrifying and taxing in ways many gamers can't understand. The ability to stabilize yourselves and your family is worth all this hate. Hold your heads high, you're doing a great job. Fantastic looking game so far. Keep going! ❤
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Evey 02-Aug-19 11:03 AM
They are professionally answering questions and concerns... he's said to contact him freely on discord or by email. He's not covering anything up. It's his prerogative to choose where and when he wants to engage with those people. I think that's far more professional than an AMA lol
!False696 02-Aug-19 11:04 AM
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Taylor 02-Aug-19 11:04 AM
The 30% cut is becoming less and less of a thing now. Especially for digital stores. That's the word I heard during E3.
Arq 02-Aug-19 11:05 AM
I get it, Valve did a lot of things. It still doesn't explain why indie devs tend to accept Epic contract then instead of going to Steam. Looks like the very few things from Epic are a lot more attractive that all these things Steam is offering. (edited)
DrArthropod 02-Aug-19 11:07 AM
@Arq because Valve won't guarantee your games success by buying tons of copies? Money tends to beat most things, yeah
Snagglewolf 02-Aug-19 11:07 AM
There's zero chance a reddit ama is any less of a mess than the discord. I don't see much point to that.
Fischer 02-Aug-19 11:08 AM
Fellow dev popping in to say great job. I know firsthand how much work goes into getting these deals done, and the relief it can give the team. The industry is too volatile to pass up guaranteed revenue or development funding, especially for an indie studio.
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Raekai 02-Aug-19 11:08 AM
I definitely think an AMA could have been better. It'd be more organized than this mess. Lol.
hotcereal 02-Aug-19 11:09 AM
bc epic pays them. steam is just the storefront. i don't think they're confident in ooblets judging from how they seem dismissive in all of their blog posts about stress and anxiety going into launching, so having epic cover the sales, they're covered. idk why anyone thinks this is anything other than money. get ya bag and keep it movin, sis. yaaaaaaaaaas
Critter Cove 02-Aug-19 11:09 AM
I can answer @arc question. Basically like I said its guaranteed visibility. If Epic is willing to put some skin in the game that means they also will help promote it on their store. This is far more valuable then pretty much anything else including up front money etc. Steam has a lot of great tools but tools are useless unless someone knows about the game. Best game in the world can die on the vine simply because it did not get any press etc.
Bartleby 02-Aug-19 11:09 AM
AMA (and this) is a dogpile. It makes sense that they'd want to engage on a more individual basis.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 11:09 AM
hey folks, I'm writing up a FAQ with common questions about the epic stuff but in the meantime, in case I don't catch your comment here, feel free to email it to me at perplamps@gmail.com
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MoonShade 02-Aug-19 11:10 AM
i think 10 minutes between posts is kind of overkill Answer: i guess its fair enough (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 11:10 AM
I can't keep up with much here as it is, I think it's giving people a bit of time to consider their positions and arguments
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 11:13 AM
@Arq Because they get money up front that guarantees they won't lose money regardless of whether or not the game fails. And the 12% cut, but that alone wouldn't do it, given the difference in user bases. Visibility will be guaranteed if the marketing budget is in place, otherwise go for Epic and you might not need one, since there's only like 100 games there or so. That's explanation enough, really. Epic's userbase is much smaller than that of Steam's (1 billion accounts on Steam with 90 million monthly active users, 85 million accounts or so with unknown amount of active users), so picking that over Steam without some sort of benefits wouldn't be the best choice. Only would make sense if devs released on all platforms, so people have a choice of convenience or supporting devs (and most of the time people would pick convenience for obvious reasons). TL;DR Developers have more reasons to choose Epic over Steam because guaranteed revenue, no need to worry about how well a game might do at that point.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 11:14 AM
@Dusk, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Dusk said: Leave the epic and steam arguments aside, I couldnt care less what platform you chose to sell your games on, but the way you treated your customers and patreons, like absolute garbage, speaks volumes about you. Ben, if youre reading this, go get some help because you're a maniac, the way you replied to that Malaysian guy and all those other people. You hate your own community and the community will surely remember this. Not to mention annoucing the deal on August 1 after patreon already renewed the subs. This isnt about epic vs steam anymore its more of the developers being condescending and ** on their own userbase by demeaning them constantly.
Baloo 02-Aug-19 11:15 AM
Why does the bot delete comments but then still post them? Edit: makes sense (edited)
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 11:15 AM
Just to show what that rascally bot is up to, I think swear words trigger it.
Audasaurus Rex 02-Aug-19 11:15 AM
there was a word that is banned in the server so blibber posts it with the word censored
seemaq 02-Aug-19 11:16 AM
btw how many patrons did you lose, if any. @Evey not sure if you’re serious but https://i.redd.it/dh9twbz7hxd31.jpg (edited)
Arq 02-Aug-19 11:16 AM
Sorry guys couldn't say anything because of the delay but it wasn't a real question. I actually asked it in the mean that, whatever all the things Steam offer currently, it's not what indie devs actually need. But well it will be an eternal ping-pong game between "yes but consumers", "yes but indie devs", etc. (edited)
Evey 02-Aug-19 11:16 AM
I don't feel hated at all 🤔
grumboo 02-Aug-19 11:17 AM
and this is how money can change people, if I were the devs of this game I would feel terrible about myself (edited)
никто 02-Aug-19 11:17 AM
I came here because I saw that one „reddit“ post (some of you may know what I‘m refering to) and I‘m sad it took such a turn
Kumi 02-Aug-19 11:18 AM
They lost around 30 from what i saw.
Fischer 02-Aug-19 11:18 AM
Using the Unreal Engine also carries a built in 5% revenue share to Epic (after $3k in sales). Selling on the Epic Games Store actually removes the engine royalty altogether. Feel free to not support Epic as a company, but be prepared to also ditch every game made in Unreal.
paulloz 02-Aug-19 11:18 AM
asidfohsndhd dfhisdf sfhsadfo sdiofhs sopdf hsaifsfh oshdf ip hsdf that post about being demeaning i can't take it it's too much for me
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 11:19 AM
@Tman2bard, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Tman2bard said: Idk why you have such contempt for Reddit and other communities. If you keep viewing them as an issue you're just gonna make more people mad. Do you actually understand the idea of PR or do you think * people off gets better results
Lodeman 02-Aug-19 11:19 AM
I think it would be awesome if a new blog post was made with a message of reconciliation. Reconciliation towards the decent folks that dislike EGS, but understand the dev's decision. Some people really were just put off by the wording, and imo that shouldn't drive folks apart.
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Critter Cove 02-Aug-19 11:21 AM
Gotcha @arc I see what you were trying to say now. Yeah it is a bit like that but would hope more people would lean towards the artists and creators because if they cant make games then we dont get any games to play 😃
Bartleby 02-Aug-19 11:21 AM
Ben already mentioned that they're going to post a FAQ soon. Will it be everything people are hoping for in terms of reconciliation? Probably not. It never is for everyone. But they're trying.
DrArthropod 02-Aug-19 11:21 AM
@Lodeman they already made their money,why would they need to reconcile? the consumer literally doesn't matter anymore, they said themselves epic bought enough copies to cover all sales (edited)
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 11:21 AM
consumer isn't an identity
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hotcereal 02-Aug-19 11:21 AM
i wish ooblets the best of luck despite the most expansive animal crossing and pokemon games releasing well before it with more content. good luck to you guys
katers 02-Aug-19 11:22 AM
Yeah, I'd say there's a group that isn't mad by the switch or by the devs taking funding, I'm happy for them as a fellow dev, but the way I was seeing some wording coming out on discord and in the article (ofc there's it from both sides, so some can be justified) made me cringe and left a bad taste in my mouth. (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 11:22 AM
@seemaq you do see the timestamps on that screenshot you folks keep posting right
I was replying to someone talking about piracy
there's a bunch of these clearly out of context screenshots that are obviously just being used to rile up people who are easily riled up
๖̶̶̶ۣۣۜۜ͜ζ͜͡Disorient 02-Aug-19 11:23 AM
no i think they are riled up cuz of the epic store bs and your attitude
jeeb 02-Aug-19 11:26 AM
it's tough out there, i think anyone who does a deal with Epic at this point KNOWS there is going to be a faction of people that swarm to spread a lot of toxic behavior. they said the discord basically doubled overnight? it's a tough situation to know that you are going to deal with that
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 11:26 AM
@!False696, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@!False696 said: In the dev blog post, there were a couple arguments made about why this wasn't such a bad thing: 1. It financially helps them and gives them the freedom to work with a little less economic worry. 2. The lack of features in the EGS is just the time it takes for software to be developed 3. It's not exclusivity, it's fre choice 4. Toxic gamers be toxic gamers 5. There are more important things to be worried about Let's respond one at a time. 1. It financially helps them and gives them the freedom to work with a little less economic worry. If this was your only argument, there wouldn't nearly be as much outrage as there is. Here's example of a dev saying that in a Steam thread and not getting **** on from other people: https://steamcommunity.com/app/427940/discussions/0/1846946102844951982/ 2. The main issue with this argument is that they've missed their roadmap. In fact, they enough deadlines that they changed it to relative time deadlines instead of absolute. https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap 3. The issue with the cable and launcher analogy is that the launcher is a storefront, consumers pay at the storefront. With cable, consumers pay for the channel and everything that comes with it. It should also be mentioned that TV shows are funded by ads, or by the people watching it looking at ads. The channels fund their own shows, they don't crowdsource, and then switch to another channel. 4. Ad hominem, attack the argument, not the "baby gamers" 5. Whataboutism, attack the argument, don't redirect and dodge
Source : https://braceyourselfgames.com/2019/03/20/industries-of-titan-on-epic-games-store/ As the official news from the devs website quotes "We will be updating Industries of Titan frequently throughout the exclusive period, and we plan to 1.0 a year later on both the Epic ...
Organize anything, together. Trello is a collaboration tool that organizes your projects into boards. In one glance, know what's being worked on, who's working on what, and where something is in a process.
Nomaki 02-Aug-19 11:27 AM
as a fellow games industry person watching this whole thing from a distance, it's worth taking 12/24h out and not responding to Discord/Twitter/etc until after that time - Give both yourself and the community time to cool off - Not every criticism, attack or frustrated message needs an immediate response (edited)
никто 02-Aug-19 11:28 AM
I don't think there's much that you guys can do other than make a new blog post and apologize. Not everything is taken out of context and yeah, switching to EGS did cause some drama but it'd be better to just stand up for what you said and leave it at that instead of feeding the haters more stuff. With that I mean, you don't have to justify yourself for your actions if you've already made it clear the first time.
Jasonblox6 02-Aug-19 11:28 AM
"There are more important things to be mad about" was actually the most upsetting part of the blog post, even if meant as a joke. It's really condescending and arrogant to tell people to ignore something they have a right to be upset about by saying "but global warming and humans rights bad" If they're more important to worry about than the game, why not donate the money we would otherwise pay for the game to charities for those causes. I still don't understand why that point was ever made.
paulloz 02-Aug-19 11:29 AM
@Nomaki +1, but i know first hand that can be hard to do when you're head deep in the waves
GammaGames 02-Aug-19 11:29 AM
@Jasonblox6 that's what caused most of the initial backlash, it just kinda piled on from there because they kept throwing fuel on the fire
BlackRaven 02-Aug-19 11:30 AM
Doing this insults the people who supported you on patreon. It is also a well known fact that gamers despise Epic almost as much as they despise the spokesperson
Snagglewolf 02-Aug-19 11:30 AM
I've used egs for multiple games. It's fine.
Evey 02-Aug-19 11:31 AM
Remember when gamers despised pewdiepie? Until he turned out to be racist, then they loved him. Gamers always hate the latest boogieman
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 11:31 AM
@Snagglewolf as a dev or as a consumer?
grumboo 02-Aug-19 11:31 AM
@Evey ?????????? LMAO
hmaon 02-Aug-19 11:32 AM
Man, nobody speaks for all "gamers." People who have, have all but turned it into a pejorative.
katers 02-Aug-19 11:32 AM
I just feel the general attitude is "if you're upset about x or y or z, you're an entitled baby Gamer (tm)" and that's not really fair to put on everyone in the community who has their own opinions about things and didn't just come from reddit or 4chan or whathaveyou.
Dusk 02-Aug-19 11:32 AM
@Evey I'm sorry, WHAT? Lmao
wackydeli 02-Aug-19 11:32 AM
@BlackRaven im a supporter on patreon who won’t buy the game on egs.
Cherry 02-Aug-19 11:32 AM
@Evey pewdie is not a racist get out of here
Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 11:33 AM
supporting on patreon isn't like backing a kickstarter, they never promised they'd release on steam
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Catweasel 02-Aug-19 11:34 AM
pediepie says racist slurs, therefore, racist. end of story
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 11:34 AM
the EGS functions sorta well from a game launcher standpoint, has a few issues here and there but nothing too serious (one of the issues is their less than stellar downloading system), may not have the same features as Steam but it gets the job done I guess. No reason to use it over something like Steam, though, unless a game you want is unavailable on it in the first place and you absolutely cannot wait until it gets released on GOG or Steam or whatever you prefer, if they ever get released there. also who actually despised pewdiepie lol, he just changed up his content a bunch of times and eventually people started liking him more. You just make yourself look like a clown saying that. @Evey
LeoKira997 02-Aug-19 11:36 AM
you know who despises pewdiepie? darksydephil
Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 11:36 AM
I'll tell you now, the quickest way to make anyone mad is to tell em what they're angry about is worthless and how they should use it on something "more important". All I know now is this game is going to take a lot more work for me to be able to play due to payment options. Along with that, calling everyone who disagrees as entitled babies just makes it worse. In the end, I'd just lay low and let it calm down instead of poking it more. @Zeraphines saying that, Paetron while it isn't a Kickstarter also means you can pull the heck out if you hate the direction it went. Can't be angry if they do pull. Along with that, waiting till the end to make the announcement so no one could pull at the last minute was a neat touch @Evey the heck are you on about, he's just as hated for the same BS he pulls Edit:oh my God why 10 minutes (edited)
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Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 11:40 AM
@Zeraphines Planned Release Date: Soonish! 'Originally posted by perplamps: Sorry for the slow response, but the plan is still to do our initial release on Steam, Xbox, and the Windows Store!' They did plan for steam initially and told people such, but plans change.
Nomaki 02-Aug-19 11:41 AM
It is always super tough taking criticism for your work and choices which I absolutely get from experience, but this really is not the way to deal with it and shows the huge value in PR / CM for mitigating negative press like this. This whole situation has been in stark contrast to the tone created through years of marketing Ooblets: Empathise with those who are frustrated, don't lash out and belittle it
SatansSlurpee 02-Aug-19 11:42 AM
howdy, I can't believe I wasted huge delay on slow chat mode to say howdy (edited)
Cbajd5 02-Aug-19 11:43 AM
now you gotta wait 10 minutes to continue past howdy, howdys should be longer to fill the full 10 minute time frame
Luthyr 02-Aug-19 11:43 AM
Yup
Evey 02-Aug-19 11:43 AM
h
BlackRaven 02-Aug-19 11:43 AM
On the topic of the Store launcher/store itself: Note that the road map items have been pushed back over and over again. Things other launchers not even including steam had on day one. WHY? Because they know their stuff. Not to mention that the store has poor (understatement I know) Customer service. I mean abysmal. Not to mention all the complaints of games going missing, not being able to use regional currency, and hackers. And before you say they all have hackers please note that all the others have excellent Verification methods and a crack team. I see none of that with this store. If you truly cared you would not have cashed out with epic money And again being so dismissive of the fans will destroy anyone.
Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 11:43 AM
@Tman2bard the devs aren't gonna be angry if people decide to stop supporting on patreon. yeah, it sucks that the only reason they're pulling is cuz of the fact they dont like epic and has nothing to do with the game itself, but that's their choice. they made the announcement presumably as close to the time they made the decision to go exclusive as they could. by no means is this the end of their development, they even said that they would be taking some time to ramp up new people and make the game they want to make with the extra funding they got from the deal. @Hotgayboy "Soonish" could mean anything. might just mean a beta or something. and yeah, plans aren't promises. we're lucky they even decided to keep us all in the loop at all. they've been super upfront this whole time that nothing is final this 10 min thing is making posts a lot longer lol
Snagglewolf 02-Aug-19 11:44 AM
@seemaq consumer. I don't make games.
SIETSO 02-Aug-19 11:44 AM
In the last few weeks I've actually talked to two different indie devs whose deals with Epic ensure that no matter how many copies they sell, they'll at least break even--a rare bit of stability in a volatile industry. But, oh no, gamers have to use a store with fewer feat...
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Shadowlet 02-Aug-19 11:45 AM
Why is it that the announcement was published on August 1st specifically? Isn't that the same day when Patreon charges backers? 🤔 Edit: Ty (edited)
TenDot11 02-Aug-19 11:45 AM
So I just read some things on twitter and such and wow. Just wow. People bashing and flaming hard. Cherry picking responses and saying “this is what they mean”. Just wow.
LeoKira997 02-Aug-19 11:46 AM
it does though
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Cherry 02-Aug-19 11:46 AM
I had my epic account deleted because I was constantly getting emails three times a week about my account being locked
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 11:47 AM
EGS does have 2FA, has had it before EGS was even a thing as far as I know. Would be better to use facts instead to try and get your point across (edited)
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Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 11:47 AM
Yeah, it has 2FA. I keep getting emails about it cuz it's been breached enough for someone to try and keep using my account in Malaysia. Thank you for Texting as as form of 2FA. Edit: It is kinda stressful tho that, every week someone has tried to use my stuff. Never had anyone try to steal my steam tho so yeah. Also, I prefer the text compared to a Google app (edited)
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hmaon 02-Aug-19 11:48 AM
don't ever use SMS for 2FA; there's some kind of app that I see on there. Oh yeah, you can use one of four common authenticator apps. Probably do that, I guess. (edited)
agpino 02-Aug-19 11:49 AM
OATH-TOTP ( time based one time password ) is much better because it can't be intercepted once the secret is shared.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 11:50 AM
@Giorno, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Giorno said: honestly this whole thing looks like a hot **** show
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Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 11:51 AM
@EnforcerKiller They had introduced 2FA to EGS mid 2018, around the time they were planning to expand and purchase exclusivity deals. So what I personally deduce from this is that they're relatively slow to add more quality of life features to the store, despite having a butt load of cash.
Conspiracy 02-Aug-19 11:51 AM
Yeah listen to hmaon on this- Sim swapping attacks are only getting more prevalent
GammaGames 02-Aug-19 11:51 AM
They always publish news on the first of the month @Shadowlet Lol hello (edited)
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nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 11:51 AM
@Shadowlet there was no malice behind publishing the announcement on August 1st, we always post our updates around the 1st of the month. Also, the vast majority of our actual patreon backers have not jumped to that conclusion. I hope that makes sense 😃
perplamps 02-Aug-19 11:52 AM
(also happy to refund anyone who still somehow believes otherwise)
Dramamine 02-Aug-19 11:53 AM
Was August 1st the earliest you were legally allowed to share the announcement or were there any restrictions on when you were able to discuss it? Not that I think there was ill intent behind the chosen announcement date. Merely curious. (edited)
Paladin Knight 02-Aug-19 11:56 AM
TFW you accidently hit delete message instead of edit message when you were going to edit it to say EGS doesn't have good 2FA but have to wait 10 mins to say that is hilariously awful
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Jacobim 02-Aug-19 11:57 AM
lmao at all y'all thinking "why not just donate all your money instead of mentioning global catastrophes?" very strong grasp on how the world works
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 11:57 AM
@Hotgayboy no doubt, they're already 4 months in the roadmap and only 2 or 3 out of 10 promised features were actually implemented by the 3 month period. They don't really need to implement features when you think about it, people who weren't gonna use the store won't use it even with the features at this point. It should've released with them from the get go instead of trying to compete with 2004 Steam, and the exclusive deals solidified many people's opinions on the store.
SatansSlurpee 02-Aug-19 11:57 AM
do you think they have someone reading all this? this is probably just a place to contain and ignore. well my mistake. Carry on then @perplamps carry on then, just usual circumstance when this sort of thing happens 🤷 (edited)
Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 11:58 AM
the devs literally just popped in and said stuff edit: i wasted my 10 mins (edited)
seemaq 02-Aug-19 11:58 AM
@SatansSlurpee are you fr
BlackRaven 02-Aug-19 11:58 AM
In response to the tweet: Risk's are inherent in all endeavors. Not every game will be a cash cow, especially on the indie scene. Why even take the money and try to justify it? You had money pouring in from loyal fans who would probably have waited for the release of your game similar to Bannerlord (WHEN?!). There was time.
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 11:58 AM
they're the green ones
perplamps 02-Aug-19 11:59 AM
@SatansSlurpee I'm reading as much as i can
responding where I can
nubnub 02-Aug-19 11:59 AM
This whole thing is just funny to me. The time it takes to write a complaint is the time it takes to make a EGS account. And yeah EGS isn't perfect, but Steam is just as bad. Remember this one? https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9k8qv5/steam-exploit-left-users-vulnerable-for-10-years or how about always online DRM: https://www.polygon.com/2017/5/16/15622366/valve-gabe-newell-sales-origin-destructive People just like to brigade.
A security researcher found a serious vulnerability that allowed hackers to take control of a Steam user’s computer.
The illusion behind the "Good Guy Valve" reputation
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:00 PM
@BlackRaven business decisions are complex and might not be fully relatable to outside observers. we made a decision we felt was best for us and Ooblets
Taylor 02-Aug-19 12:00 PM
Or how about those child gambling rings with the CS:GO skins that they were so incredibly slow to respond to?
hmaon 02-Aug-19 12:00 PM
"pouring in" smh. What's wrong with the 2FA? Google authenticator works. I bet new features on the EGS roadmap will result in new users.
iAmTheTot 02-Aug-19 12:00 PM
@perplamps that's an infinitely more level-headed announcement than your original tone-deaf blog post, fyi
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Evey 02-Aug-19 12:03 PM
Again people saying they had money "Pouring in". Clueless. Indie gamedev is not the cash cow you think it is
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Audasaurus Rex 02-Aug-19 12:04 PM
yeah, I think the fact that they say they are using the money to pay their rent says enough about indie dev cash flow
Cherry 02-Aug-19 12:04 PM
Steam has controversies yes, but they at least fix the problems with them. Epic launched with an inferior store front, exclusivity deals and are not improving their store front. If they would of just done that from the get go people wouldn't have problems. Look at Origin, everyone hated EA for launching origin but people are acceptable with it now because it has mostly the same features as steam.
Ftothekman 02-Aug-19 12:05 PM
I mean I got EGS for their exclusives
agpino 02-Aug-19 12:05 PM
I truly and greatly dislike valve for their behavior. Let's not forget that they hired economist to boost and perfect their loot boxes ( it's standard practice now ) but it was pretty innovative then. The company is just as greedy as other corps. So let's shed this illusion that valve is an ally to the PC gaming marketplace.
LeoKira997 02-Aug-19 12:06 PM
dont advocate piracy in a dev discord, not even because its wrong to do so but because of how dumb it is to publicly tell people to pirate stuff
Paladin Knight 02-Aug-19 12:06 PM
There are ways to announce an Epic Store exclusivity deal that might not eradicate backlash, but will certainly minimize it. Then there's the way to Ooblets ...
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SIETSO 02-Aug-19 12:07 PM
DSP title 😂
fooey 02-Aug-19 12:07 PM
Epic and their business practices are scumbags. They've said flat out that they have no projections showing they can make money selling 3rd party games, because no game will sell enough copies to cover their sales guarantees. All they're doing is paying greedy developers to be pawns in Tim Sweeney's personal war against steam. Taking their exclusivity bribe is 100% deciding you don't care about your audience.
Jacobim 02-Aug-19 12:07 PM
Y'all, both Steam and Epic are incentivized to spend as little as possible in order to profit as much as possible. They're both bad, but not due to some shadowy "Steam cares more" or "Epic is more greedy" reason. Think bigger. @perplamps @nonplayercat I think the blog post was good and called out all the bad behaviour before it happened, and now we're witnessing it. I think an apology would be awful and that it should just be left as is. G*mers gonna baby ("but what about China????")
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EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 12:07 PM
Valve's DRM is completely optional, it's on the devs to implement it. @nubnub Can't say much about the exploit aside from good thing it wasn't widely known, otherwise people would've certainly been posting about it if they got hit by it. That's a pretty serious exploit. Also, boiling it down to people not wanting to create an EGS account is just dumb, that's just a lazy minority. Majority of people who have issues with the EGS have issues for other reasons, whether it's the security part, the feature part or the exclusives on PC part (of course it's different from consoles, just a choice of downloading something over paying 400 euros for one or the other console). There's so much more to say but I'll end up writing a wall again, which I don't have the energy to do, to be honest.
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 12:08 PM
wow imagine being jim sterling and pouring fuel on this absolute nonsense, can't relate
arc 02-Aug-19 12:08 PM
come on ... i actually cannot believe jim sterling already made a video on this. this is actually painful to see. it's so clear that he is trying to cash in on drama wherever he can as soon as possible
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 12:08 PM
@Cameron, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Cameron said: Imagine trying to justify ** PR practices
BlackRaven 02-Aug-19 12:11 PM
When you do controversial things dont be surprised when the hammer is brought down. It is a well known fact people dont like Epic or all the spyware and crap in it (which has been verified) and the casual stealing of info from steam. You can not pretend this will not impact your game/reputation as well as the success of future endeavors. Also business decisions? Really?
SatansSlurpee 02-Aug-19 12:11 PM
I think Jim Sterling is like the Richard Stallman of gaming. He is very idealistic and sometimes it's what we need
🚫 4
iAmTheTot 02-Aug-19 12:12 PM
@BlackRaven I am not a EGS supporter, but do not spread lies. The Spyware crap is not "verified" and in fact was explained away several times. It's questionable and dodgy coding, but not spyware. What they are however is an unsecure platform. Also, on Jim Sterling, his views are very consistent over time. Nothing to do with drama. (edited)
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 12:12 PM
i think jim sterling only likes controversy, it doesn´t matter from where it comes
vergeofapathy 02-Aug-19 12:12 PM
I like how Jim Sterling, someone who lives from Patreon and has ads disabled for the majority of his content, "cashes in on drama" somehow.
👆 2
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 12:13 PM
Should Jim Sterling discussion also be held here? Feels like it muddies the water a bit.
nubnub 02-Aug-19 12:13 PM
Oh no your energies are low from being mad about a game someone is spending there life hours creating to entertain you. That's called entitlement. I understand the lack of features, etc on EGS but it's a new platform. Rome wasn't built in a day and Steam was a hot mess when it came out.
Evey 02-Aug-19 12:13 PM
Again I find humour in how people have abruptly shifted from "Ugh company/brand twitters are so bland and faceless, I want to talk to a REAL PERSON not some PR rep" to "Oh my GOD you can't just SAY STUFF, you should hire someone for PR!" Can't have it both ways (edited)
seemaq 02-Aug-19 12:14 PM
@nubnub “steam was bad 15 years ago” is not an excuse
Cherry 02-Aug-19 12:15 PM
Steam has laid the groundwork for competitors to start at. Jim's video explains it perfectly...
?? 02-Aug-19 12:15 PM
Lets be real, the waters are already "muddy"
LSWraith 02-Aug-19 12:16 PM
even GoG has more features than Epic. as does Ubisoft
GammaGames 02-Aug-19 12:16 PM
I'm not surprised, most of Sterling's stuff feels clickbaity and reactionary. You don't have to get ad money for it to still be clickbait. Prepare for wave 2! @Evey what are you on about? People want someone that with empathize with them, not berate them for being upset. Yes, overall it's a small thing to be upset about, but that doesn't excuse the talk from yesterday that sounded like it was looking down at the upset people. Instead of trying to understand the underlying reason, you're dismissing it as upset people gonna be upset because they don't make any sense. (edited)
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 12:17 PM
Don't take the piss you fuckwit (edited)
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 12:18 PM
@nubnub you say EGS is a new platform but that's where things get difficult. EGS released in 2018, Steam released in 2003. Standards change over time, you can't go in competing with a store from way over a decade ago. That's not how you do things. To beat the competition you would have to match the features, give consumers a reason to go to your platform... or resort to exclusives, since that's the most realistic way to beat Steam in the first place if you don't want to put in much effort.
fooey 02-Aug-19 12:18 PM
Their handling of this has been so bad they'll be too toxic themselves to ever get hired at any actual reputable game studio. They're going to get their one single check, and they're done in the industry. When the game comes out, it's going to be avalanched with bad reviews that it will be impossible to recover from. This whole fiasco is a perfect example of how to self immolate a career.
troubleshot 02-Aug-19 12:18 PM
Discussion around Ooblets is probably going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Hope the devs have some stamina.
Snagglewolf 02-Aug-19 12:19 PM
I mostly like Jim but his stock in trade is controversy. He's mostly on point, sometimes it seems excessive.
Qwedgeonline 02-Aug-19 12:19 PM
Honestly have no idea what this game is even about, and have never heard of it before the EGS thing. I'm just here for the drama
Jacobim 02-Aug-19 12:19 PM
You know that undercutting the competition and offering more money to smaller companies to win them over is exactly how the system works? That's "competition". It's awful and it sucks but blame the disease not the symptoms
OddPotato 02-Aug-19 12:19 PM
Just saw the front page of reddit 😦
unicron 02-Aug-19 12:19 PM
Bad reviews? Did EGS finally add that feature?
arc 02-Aug-19 12:20 PM
it's not self-immolation. if anything, a few angrygamers are trying to set them on fire. but in all likelihood, in 2 days to a week there will be a new giant manufactured controversy and nobody will care about this drama anymore, and the devs will continue on with their lives like nothing happened
Hobbes 02-Aug-19 12:20 PM
@Jacobim You know that what Epic is doing isn't competition, correct?
❓ 4
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 12:20 PM
"I think this issue that bothers only a little fragment of the community of which I am a part of will KILL this game and the people who made it because I am very modest and realistic"
Lodeman 02-Aug-19 12:21 PM
Just going to use my 10min again to spread a message of positivity: would be nice if people could see past this drama, and just listen to each other's valid concerns and acknowledge them. The actual trolls though can go buzz off 🐶
Medea 02-Aug-19 12:22 PM
@Hobbes It is "competition", but in an unsustainable, deliberately destructive way
Chrispo 02-Aug-19 12:23 PM
When you try to leviate the backlash behind sarcastic post but then you dig a bigger grave it be like that. Welp hope Microsoft requests a Switch port like Cuphead.
Goodra 02-Aug-19 12:23 PM
Jim Sterling generally has a very anti-steam rhetoric and is very understanding of indie devs taking an epic deal.
👆 16
jimble 02-Aug-19 12:24 PM
🦀 they waited until August 1st, the day all patreons are charged to announce EGS 🦀
🚫 10
Audasaurus Rex 02-Aug-19 12:26 PM
as has been said, they always do their update posts on the first of the month. It was not something shady to get money from patrons before they had a chance to back out (edited)
Evey 02-Aug-19 12:26 PM
Well at least people won't be able to review bomb it on EGS lmao
😬 8
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 12:27 PM
haha lack of features is so funny 😂
😂 8
Cherry 02-Aug-19 12:27 PM
Can't have filitering for review bombs like steam, think we'll get that feature probably by 2021
❤ 5
Taylor 02-Aug-19 12:27 PM
The post said it was released on the 31st over in the US. Also, they always release their news on the first of every month. Also, we don't know when the deal was finalized nor when they were allowed to talk about it.
vergeofapathy 02-Aug-19 12:27 PM
To be fair, they did foresee the backlash in the post, so considering they did foresee it, they could have made a fair exception and posted it earlier. :p
?? 02-Aug-19 12:27 PM
The issue isn't the fact that you went to EGS store. The issue is how you guys handle the backlash and handled the post in general. Mocking your audience isn't a way to gain favor.
seemaq 02-Aug-19 12:27 PM
I want emotes back. sup @Jacobim (edited)
🤡 4
BlackRaven 02-Aug-19 12:27 PM
The reason people review bomb is because Developers Don't Listen. Like you are right now.
👆 6
👎 4
The Sin Cave ™ 02-Aug-19 12:28 PM
@seemaq same
starfishheat 02-Aug-19 12:28 PM
the post sucked but the fact that they are allowing discussion here is a plus at least
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 12:28 PM
i watched this video and felt motivated. my friends saw this video and felt motivated. my neighbours saw this and were motivated. we rent a projector in a big field and my village people saw this and felt motivated. thank you so much for this video. may god bless you.
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 12:29 PM
>review bombs on Epic only people who purchased the game would be able to review it, so there wouldn't be much of bombing in the first place since people won't be buying those games if they dislike Epic. Refunds seem to be difficult on EGS, so that's even less of a reason to buy it to prove a point, since they would still be supporting the devs/Epic despite having no intention of doing so in a theoretical Epic review bomb.
👆 3
Peregrine23 02-Aug-19 12:29 PM
"The problem isn't that we are mad for no good reason, the problem is that you pointed out that there is no good reason for us to be mad."
Jacobim 02-Aug-19 12:29 PM
Can someone explain to me competition in a sustainable, non-destructive way? Keeping in mind we have finite resources on this planet. How does one compete infinitely on a finite planet? "You make better products!" "You reach more of an audience!" But since you have a responsibility to your shareholders, not your consumers, you can only better a product so much before its costs become too high, and you can only saturate a market with a product so much before you stop profiting as much. It's all unsustainable. It's all deliberately destructive (as a system). All companies inevitably "go bad" - anything in the name of profit.
☝ 2
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 12:30 PM
direct your anger at the forces of capital instead of two people just trying to get by
🙏 4
Breadman 02-Aug-19 12:30 PM
So when is this game coming out on Steam?
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 12:31 PM
@Zombra, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Zombra said: @perplamps I don't care about this game or Epic ... just felt like registering to say that being a **** to your fans isn't a good look.. Might want to dial that back. Then again there's no such thing as bad publicity, right? Becoming famous primarily for hating gamers might make you a millionaire. I hope you like it when you get it.
albieruru 02-Aug-19 12:31 PM
I'm just popping in to say my bit as a longtime lurker in this Discord, even though I feel like this is something the devs will ignore because it's not what they want to hear: Some of us aren't upset by the move to launch on EGS, but the condescending tone of the announcement and the treatment that's been thrown around in here for people genuinely trying to give you guys their thoughts. Indie devs have it tough, so I'm not upset at ALL that you'd take an offer from Epic- being able to live and work on your dream at the same time is great. I've had Ooblets wishlisted on Steam for over a year and I would have purchased through EGS, albeit a little hesitantly. It's just that I've sat in here scrolling through chat since the announcement, and I'm so disappointed at the replies being given... and at all the regulars who continuously say things like "gamers suck" "can we ban gamers pls". I don't understand, if you play games, then you're a gamer. Why would you encourage and indulge in insulting your potential future interested customer base as well? I understand being protective of this community you've built, and of the game you've worked on, it's your baby. But all the things that have been said in this discord just make me sad. I don't know, I hope Ooblets does well, because it's a beautiful game. But my feelings about the devs have changed, and I question where I want to put my money. Not that it matters since Epic has guaranteed sales, so... shrug anyway sorry for huge wall of text, wasn't sure whether this should've gone in ooblets or here, but carry on
👆 17
iAmTheTot 02-Aug-19 12:31 PM
The "two people just trying to get by" could have been a lot less antagonistic towards their customers, who are also people just trying to get by. (edited)
LeoKira997 02-Aug-19 12:31 PM
assuming epic is still doing 1 year deals, then it will be 1 year, dont know if the devs have said how long
Luwukian 02-Aug-19 12:32 PM
Ooblets looks like a game that could easily come out on the Switch. Might take some work for port, but still would sell well I guess (edited)
SkyShard 02-Aug-19 12:32 PM
devs has said its based on release milestones, so they can't put out an exact date
Mustafa Fasula 02-Aug-19 12:32 PM
Are you still angry about the Epic games store exclusivity?
Rylo151 02-Aug-19 12:33 PM
I really dont blame them for wanting to take that sweet sweet fortnite money (I know I would), but I must say that condescending update post sure was a spectacularly bad way to make sure your announcement goes over as well as possible with people.
Raekai 02-Aug-19 12:33 PM
Thanks again to @Paladin Knight for posting https://youtu.be/TriZmvorwxc here. I love JQ, and I think he sums up a big part of this problem quite well. Did I just get un-starbellied for posting this again? 😢 (edited)
There are ways to announce an Epic Store exclusivity deal that might not eradicate backlash, but will certainly minimize it. Then there's the way to Ooblets ...
Flufflefluff 02-Aug-19 12:34 PM
Someone mentioned they are allowing discussion. They are allowing a limited discussion. I was not even overly hostile; I just said I thought the decision was stupid, and I quickly found my other account bandit. Within moments. I will not be making the mistake of voicing my opinion again, so hoping I can stay. I just feel sorry for that reaction, because it was fairly polite compared to the way many people act on the Internet
agpino 02-Aug-19 12:34 PM
To be fair I've only heard about ooblets because of this backlash.
cold 02-Aug-19 12:34 PM
Same , the devs knew controversy would bring ppl here
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:34 PM
@albieruru I thought it was pretty clear the type of person I was referring to when I mentioned gamers(tm) and that was not people who play games. I play games, I participate in the gaming community. there's a specific group that has specific characteristics for whom the term Gamer is often used to refer to, but maybe that usage wasn't as well known as i thought
🙏 7
Lodeman 02-Aug-19 12:35 PM
I have to admit I hadn't heard of a derogatory "gamer TM" term before. Gaming is fun, it's a shame the term has become a negative one.
SatansSlurpee 02-Aug-19 12:36 PM
I would prefer a version that is sold direct if there is a worry about profit splitting
Codes 02-Aug-19 12:36 PM
Erm. ... did you shut down the subreddit? And delete the posts that were critical of you?
Jasonblox6 02-Aug-19 12:36 PM
Just because they're toxic doesn't make them any less of an actual gamer though, so to call them Gamers(tm) instead of calling them toxic people just makes it sound like you're talking to all gamers tbh, which is why people are upset
Evey 02-Aug-19 12:36 PM
You can blame 2014 for ruining Gamers as a term
☝ 7
vergeofapathy 02-Aug-19 12:38 PM
It isn't that the term "gamer" isn't well known in that context, it's that it's a stupid stereotype to pigeonhole a wide group of people regardless of their personas in an attempt to de-individualise them, so it is in no way morally above any other ridiculous stereotype. (edited)
katers 02-Aug-19 12:38 PM
How about addressing the issue/argument instead of just calling people names?
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 12:38 PM
We specifically said "toxic gamers" in the blog post though
The Sin Cave ™ 02-Aug-19 12:38 PM
Good job deleting the critical posts on the subreddit that weren't being rude at all really. It's a great look.
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 12:38 PM
it's like saying "people suck" vs "toxic people suck"?
CommradeWolfie 02-Aug-19 12:38 PM
@nonplayercat But i had to change pfp cause i read that anime pfps where bad
Rose Shrimp 02-Aug-19 12:38 PM
so, hey. i dont really think distilling people's distaste for the epic game store down to toxic Gamers™ being toxic Gamers™ is really a good idea, considering Epic's huge history of mistreating their workers. personally, I can't in good conscious purchase an exclusive from their storefront when all the money that's going into getting those exclusives is from working people to death https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/23/18507750/fortnite-work-crunch-epic-games i cannot blame either of you for taking the deal but please dont pretend that people's dislike of epic is somehow a moral wrong, when Epic is a huge company that doesnt give a fuck about the developers they directly employ (edited)
Sources reveal long hours and intense pressure while working on hit game
Medea 02-Aug-19 12:39 PM
people feeling attacked by the "gamer" talk is beyond silly since it's so non-serious. the only thing that might have irked the CASUALS might have been the "if you don't like EGS, you're a triggered baby Gamer TM" that got reiterated over and over which was a bit handwavy in retrospect. But who gives a poopy
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 12:39 PM
don't know what star belly role means but I like how Raekai got it removed for linking that video lol good to know, thanks (edited)
Jacobim 02-Aug-19 12:39 PM
G@mers just earned a reputation over the last decade or two of being easily upset by minor things, having very selective backlashes usually focusing on the wrong issues at play, and for misunderstanding how the world works (and how it can be bettered!) to the point of ridicule. You can play games without being a hard-G "G@mer" Also g@mergate 👀 ("it was about ethics!!!!!!!") (edited)
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 12:39 PM
Star Belly is something we use as a reward for people who are regular friendly supporters of ooblets or our bffs
Exima 02-Aug-19 12:40 PM
g'mergate was so insanely stupid it's incredible....
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 12:40 PM
it doesn't really mean anything
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 12:40 PM
@rhymenoceros, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@rhymenoceros said: **** if you don't like epic making its workers crunch you're gonna hate [checks notes] literally every large game studio.
JaceTwice 02-Aug-19 12:41 PM
@albieruru thank you. This is exactly how I feel about it. I don't care about EGS drama at all (bought Satisfactory day 1!), but there are some people with legit complaints about the epic store, like it not being available in all regions, and I was really disappointed by the communication the devs had about it before there even was a response to it. @perplamps I def know the usage of "gamer" your talking about but man it's really easy for that to be misconstrued. it's common enough knowlege in some circles, but at the same time, post GG, it should be well known that people will purposely choose to read "toxic gamers" as though you're describing all people who play games, and not a specific subset of them. Then use that to start a firestorm
Arq 02-Aug-19 12:41 PM
every company and brand actually lol (it doesn't excuse anything btw) (edited)
👆 2
butterfly 02-Aug-19 12:41 PM
god, that jim sterling video is a bit cringe. the "no fun allowed" type stuff
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:42 PM
I mean to be fair, I was absolutely talking about the same sort of people as gamergaters
Mustafa Fasula 02-Aug-19 12:42 PM
There's no such thing as a bad PR i have only heard about this game because of the backlash and Epic games crunch problems means nothing if people really cared about how companies treat their employees then everyone would have boycott cd projekt red and Rockstar long time ago
Daevinski 02-Aug-19 12:43 PM
I think Jim Sterling is right.
seemaq 02-Aug-19 12:43 PM
I still don't understand what gamergate was tbh
Weeb Trash 02-Aug-19 12:43 PM
>people getting upset about something are in the same space as misogynistic frothing morons
iAmTheTot 02-Aug-19 12:44 PM
@perplamps The problem was more about the tone of the entire thing. The entire blog post reads as "anyone who disagrees with us is toxic" which is kind of a bad tone to have with potential customers. (Not just the blog post, but also the discord comments circulating around) (edited)
Zombra 02-Aug-19 12:44 PM
@perplamps I don't care about this game or Epic ... just felt like registering to say that being a jerk to your fans isn't a good look.. Might want to dial that back. Then again there's no such thing as bad publicity, right? Becoming famous primarily for hating gamers might make you a millionaire. I hope you like it when you get it.
Silvie 02-Aug-19 12:44 PM
I mean if you play video games in general you're in the same space as them sadly
agpino 02-Aug-19 12:44 PM
I think people also are upset about it because the game looks so good. And people are very hyper sensitive about the very same issues ( devs being malicious, devs moving to EGS, devs being entitled over patreon ). I'm not saying that ooblets devs are that exactly but it's a hot topic for sure and it's a bit tone deaf to act otherwise.
Camoceltic 02-Aug-19 12:45 PM
`There's no such thing as a bad PR` If that were the case, PR departments would never go "The views of X do not necessarily represent the values of our company"
zyzz 02-Aug-19 12:45 PM
I started looking forward to Ooblets a couple years ago and have it wishlisted on steam, but probably won't buy the game now that it's an EGS exclusive because I don't like downloading a launcher for just one game. Having one launcher for most games is nice because it feels like a game manager type app. Having to download specific launchers for specific games feels like really onerous DRM.
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 12:45 PM
I find it ironic to boycott Epic Games for their crunch while praising GoG which is openly pro-crunch (by their CEO) (itch is the best btw)
никто 02-Aug-19 12:46 PM
@zyzz I agree. having all my games on one platform >> having them spread on different platforms and some of us are game / achievement collectors so that also adds to it
elbarto 02-Aug-19 12:47 PM
So if you criticize Epic Games, you are from Gamergate....got it, stay classy....
soso 02-Aug-19 12:47 PM
I don't blame them for locking down the subreddit. That influx of activity would be a nightmare to moderate, and they pointed people here instead
☝ 13
Nate 02-Aug-19 12:48 PM
What does GamerGate gotta do with Epic Games? 👀
vergeofapathy 02-Aug-19 12:48 PM
Literally nothing, but it's an easy defence.
Medea 02-Aug-19 12:49 PM
can we like not ever evoke GG again unless necessary/relevant? I feel like I've managed to go years avoiding that bigoted garbage that seems to infest most of the internet until now snurfler just nip that crap in the bud - it doesn't need or deserve a platform because that's how that stuff thrives, even if ironic. it's so draining. (just a request, not a demand) also yes @Honeyxilia itch FTW! ❤
Rose Shrimp 02-Aug-19 12:49 PM
lmao as if im not already aware that crunch is a widespread thing. my point is not that it's unique to epic, but more that pretending you're somehow in the moral right for backing epic on this is ridiculous believe it or not i dont purchase a lot of games every year and if i do i usually do put some kind of thought into making sure there isn't that kind of level of crunch being forced onto workers i have never bought a rockstar game and i will continue to not do so. as a bisexual woman entering game development myself, i really don't appreciate being lumped in with gamergate simply because im opposed to a company that doesn't believe the development team for their biggest game should have reasonable work hours and i havent praised GoG at all here so that's also disingenuous. this 10 minute wait is really killing me, dude 100 hour weeks really are epic i guess (edited)
EnforcerKiller 02-Aug-19 12:49 PM
@Honeyxilia CDPR vowed to be more humane to devs, hopefully we can trust them in that. They are not innocent in their dev treatment, that much is certain, but if they can make an effort to reduce/nullify crunch, I'm all for it. People were praising GOG/CDPR because they seem to have been the most pro-consumer company that we have seen in a while (excluding Valve cause they are slow, Valve Time and all).
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:49 PM
definitely no connection between angry mobs of gamers harassing indie devs over inconsequential perceived slights in gamergate and the anti-epic stuff
😂 4
Jacobim 02-Aug-19 12:49 PM
If you identify with the term "g*mer" so strongly that when its toxic members are called out you feel a pang of accusation or rush to their defense... 😨
Codes 02-Aug-19 12:49 PM
This ordeal is going to be used as a case study of what not to do PR-wise for small devs.
Jasonblox6 02-Aug-19 12:50 PM
People are mad that they've been clumped in with those people, not that those people have been, rightfully, called out? XD
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 12:50 PM
coming here demanding a couple of developers speak to you in a way you, personally, find palatable is peak "let me speak to your manager" syndrome.
👆 1
SatansSlurpee 02-Aug-19 12:50 PM
@perplamps as long as disagreeing and stating clearly in a thought out manner is not confused for harassing @perplamps I get it I think, just don't confuse all of us for some of us is all I mean (edited)
LordDon 02-Aug-19 12:51 PM
Gamers need to find something more worthwhile to get mad about than having to install another launcher. Y'all need jesus.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:51 PM
@SatansSlurpee I get that it's hard to see a hate mob for what it is when you're in the midst of it, but when you're the target of it, it's pretty clear
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 12:51 PM
Limiting our speech every ten minutes? CENSORSHIP OMG rolls eyes
Joey 02-Aug-19 12:51 PM
the only think I found problematic in the announcement was the "there are bigger things to be upset about" insinuation. while it's true in this case, that's a tactic commonly used by people in power to dismiss the concerns of the disenfranchised/disprivileged so that wasn't cool.
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 12:51 PM
Glad to see that perp is keeping up with the amazing PR work and still not pinning answers so people can stop getting derided for asking the same questions. Makes me think he's actually enjoying all this nonsense
Hobbes 02-Aug-19 12:52 PM
@perplamps is there any chance of setting slow mode to something a little less absurd?
Chibeth 02-Aug-19 12:53 PM
Wow. People are just being rude. Sorry you guys have to deal with all of this. =/
Audasaurus Rex 02-Aug-19 12:53 PM
I'm assuming perp is gonna pin the FAQ when he finishes writing it
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:53 PM
@Pixel Hat working on the faq
👍 1
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 12:53 PM
Stopping by again to send some love and support your way @perplamps @nonplayercat keep up the good work, excited to support you!
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 12:53 PM
@Pixel Hat we're doing our best. It's hard to move quickly when we're dealing with a lot
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:53 PM
having other people look it over
GammaGames 02-Aug-19 12:53 PM
Itch is my favorite steam competitor too, I especially like the custom store pages and game jam support @Honeyxilia
☝ 4
Kano 02-Aug-19 12:53 PM
Hello there fellow game dev. I too like to be outright hostile towards my playerbase to get more media exposure for my indie game.
🙄 12
SanityPirate 02-Aug-19 12:54 PM
based
INfusion 02-Aug-19 12:54 PM
based and uncringepilled
turbobutts 02-Aug-19 12:55 PM
anime avatars
bilger 02-Aug-19 12:55 PM
anime bad
SIETSO 02-Aug-19 12:55 PM
They already got a ton of exposure when they announced exclusivity
cold 02-Aug-19 12:55 PM
Wooky I totally agree with you , I hope they like their epic money , but they need to be reminded that the epic money is only for a game
butterfly 02-Aug-19 12:55 PM
Weeb Trash 02-Aug-19 12:56 PM
imagine having such a bore smooth brain you get upset when you see anime girl avatars
Jessy 02-Aug-19 12:56 PM
I just think this was all handled poorly. I doubt the backlash would of happened if you spoke to your community about the idea of signing with epic. The stuff after that was just making things even worse. (edited)
nubnub 02-Aug-19 12:56 PM
Give it a week or two and there will be a new outrage for people to bandwagon.
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никто 02-Aug-19 12:56 PM
@Wooky this "Take your epic money and buy a PR guy already. Like you already said regarding patreon "you dont need their money anymore"" +1 (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:57 PM
@Jessy definitely agree we unintentionally fueled the fires, but do note that most high profile games that sign with Epic face a hate mob as well
(and they have PR people)
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 12:57 PM
and also it is very difficult to hire PR people and moderators on a days notice
EmiliusTheAwesome 02-Aug-19 12:57 PM
It's hard to juggle elephant poops with grace
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Luwukian 02-Aug-19 12:57 PM
I wish the community would be more involved for launcher releases. The game has been so long listed out on steam and now this epic exclusive out of no where (edited)
kieryst 02-Aug-19 12:58 PM
@perplamps Heya! I shadow follow your dev posts. and am looking forward to more news about it. First time on this discord , and just wanted to say as a fellow dev, what you put together is amazing. I'm sorry there's so much toxicity about your decision and post about it. Indie work is hard, and I don't think people realize the context of your actions. In your shoes I would probably do the same, no questions asked. Thanks for all of your hard work! Looking forward to seeing more. 😄
Danctheduck 02-Aug-19 12:58 PM
Sending support to the devs. You'll get through this brigade. Such a wonderful game and very happy that you have some financial security (huge!)
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 12:58 PM
@Luwukian the game is unreleased, so it's never been "out" on steam
perplamps 02-Aug-19 12:58 PM
thanks so much @kieryst !
and @Danctheduck
MangoDuwudles 02-Aug-19 12:59 PM
You guys are doing great, especially having to address the same arguments over and over tamlin
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Medea 02-Aug-19 12:59 PM
@butterfly I mean, there are progressive spaces discussing it too that KiA have complained about/targeted (ResetERA, GiantBomb, etc.); are they one and the same now, too? c'mon. that doesn't mean the worst/most hostile bunch aren't from places like there, though. This really benefits no one and is beyond lazy (edited)
?? 02-Aug-19 12:59 PM
You wouldn't need to hire a PR person on a days notice if you read over your blog posted and noticed something wrong before posting it.
paige "knovice" knef 02-Aug-19 12:59 PM
there might be fans who have a pr background who would be willing to proof read stuff! happy you guys got funding despite not personally enjoying egs
perplamps 02-Aug-19 01:00 PM
appreciate that @paige "knovice" knef !
iAmTheTot 02-Aug-19 01:00 PM
@perplamps as you can see from many people here, a lot of us are sympathetic with your decision on the deal. Really we are. Seeing you admit you may have fanned the flames is a step. Try to tone back on a snark and really listen to people's concerns. These are your potential customers. Epic may have paid you for the game already but is that all you care about? If you truly do care about the community and growing your customer base, keep listening and try not to be so snarky.
katers 02-Aug-19 01:00 PM
@iAmTheTot I agree.
elbarto 02-Aug-19 01:00 PM
i like how this guy keep twisting things to make the people who have legitimate complains towards Epic part of gamergate or some "angry mob"(TM)...Anyway i've been kinda interested by that game for the past 3 or 4 years, but the Epic switch and the passive agressive statements and justifications following it (instead of just saying that it was for the money...) made me loose all interest.
Sitrax 02-Aug-19 01:00 PM
People speaking out against anti-consumer practices used to fuel corporate greed for a company known to exploit it's own workers and children = hate mob. Got it. Great dev.
Em 02-Aug-19 01:00 PM
I don't really care about the epic deal but the post feels really mean. You shouldn't have to compare what you did to the planet becoming a place we won't be able to live on in order to make it seem like the person complaining is in the wrong. Epic just means I have to wait an extra year or two to get it, and that y'all still get to eat in the mean time.
Jasonblox6 02-Aug-19 01:00 PM
A simple announcement apologising for the condescending nature of the blog and clearing up that you're okay with people not liking Epic, however for the time being that is where it will be, would be a good move. At this point it just seems a little too late though
perplamps 02-Aug-19 01:01 PM
@iAmTheTot I understand where you're coming from and I think there was definitely a mismatch between what our typical audience expects from us and what the broader gaming community expects to see
Rose Shrimp 02-Aug-19 01:01 PM
nah but for real what's you two's opinion on crunch and epic's history of it @perplamps @nonplayercat and, in terms of indies signed with epic, i never really saw House House get any hate, since they explained themselves pretty reasonably from the start
LordDon 02-Aug-19 01:01 PM
You have my support @perplamps & @nonplayercat , the haters are vocal but they're a minority and not worth your time. I think the snark is entirely warranted because of the childish response from so many about something so minor.
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JaceTwice 02-Aug-19 01:01 PM
@perplamps I can def understand that you mean the same sort of people at the GGers, and that's totally legit cause those people are awful. I dunno, all I can say is how me/my friends reacted to the tone of the post feeling like it was lumping a lot of otherwise reasonable people in with that crowd and that it didn't sit well. And that's all I really have to say I suppose, I hope Ooblets is still a success and that we can all get past this as positively as possible!
arc 02-Aug-19 01:02 PM
the customer is not always right
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Dragobbi 02-Aug-19 01:02 PM
Why is everyone acting like the developers are the victims here, when they attacked their own customer base completely unprovoked?
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Wylly7 02-Aug-19 01:02 PM
Outright dismissing every one of your critics by labeling them a “hate mob” after handling the situation so poorly only reflects on your lack of maturity and allows you to effectively ignore people by pretending it’s an “us vs them” situation. When you take only positive feedback to heart, and completely dismiss people with real concerns, it makes you look bad. That’s what people are upset about. That’s what everyone is seeing in your responses here. When you are thanking the people who say positive things and dismissing anything negative, it reflects on you poorly, no amount of snappy one liners from your fans will prevent that
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 01:02 PM
i agree with @JaceTwice
perplamps 02-Aug-19 01:02 PM
@JaceTwice and that totally wasn't my goal
MarkGrant 02-Aug-19 01:02 PM
I feel like I was the only one who found out about the epic deal by reading the monthly email from Rebecca, which was friendly and reasonable. Came to the discord to gauge the reaction and found THIS.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 01:02 PM
@Jacobim, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Jacobim said: I, as someone who played games, reacted as "oh * those G*mers are gonna * they pants over this one" and lO aNd BeHoLd
Dart Jong Un 02-Aug-19 01:03 PM
My only experience with the Epic Games Store is getting a free game every week or so. (edited)
Miniko 02-Aug-19 01:03 PM
they give me free game surely they no bad
Coty 02-Aug-19 01:03 PM
GUYS CLIMATE CHANGE
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 01:04 PM
imagine waiting 10 minutes to post some of this stuff
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girlthulu 02-Aug-19 01:04 PM
I'm throwing in my support too! I didn't find the post as upsetting as others did, ooblets is still gonna be a buy from me. I'm sorry you have to put up with this backlash, but I'm grateful you are handling it maturely. ♥
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Hobbes 02-Aug-19 01:04 PM
@arc The customer might not always be right, but taking a deal with a known bad actor in the Digital Distribution marketplace is a decision you have to make weighed against "Is this worth the PR hit it's going to cause" , and then work out if there's a way you can mitigate it. What the devs did was the opposite of mitigation.
deedles 02-Aug-19 01:04 PM
lol can’t believe people are still talking here. Consumer goodwill means making the best game they can with better funding 😱 (edited)
Horze 02-Aug-19 01:05 PM
I mean many people just learned of the controversy today. Idk what you mean
unicron 02-Aug-19 01:05 PM
I mean this isn't complicated, the devs are running a business, the bag of cash from Epic is worth far more than consumer goodwill or some idealistic sense of morality, this is just capitalism.
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SanityPirate 02-Aug-19 01:06 PM
Guess they don't need any of our money fellas
Evey 02-Aug-19 01:06 PM
The devs still have full creative freedom so it's not like they've sold their souls lol
albieruru 02-Aug-19 01:07 PM
Just saying thanks for taking the time to read my wall of text @perplamps, and my feelings are pretty spot on with @JaceTwice up there. Also... I gotta point out that this Discord is usually pretty hugboxy. Which was fine, considering that Ooblets is supposed to be a warm community who just loves dancing plant squishies, but tbh I think it's gotten a little echo-chamber and thus it's hard for the devs to take criticism- not used to it at this volume. Really toxic people with literally no input but insults can F right off, though, that's not what thoughtful criticism is.
Nate 02-Aug-19 01:07 PM
Eh, the EGS store has it's problems such as currency issues outside of certain regions and lack of features. Both of which, will probably be fixed eventually. I only really see Epic Games as another company trying to break into the Industry and be as popular as Steam is, just with much more aggressive tactics. I really have no issue with devs going to EGS when their deal sounds and looks better than a deal with Steam in the short term, especially for an Indie dev trying to get proper funding. I guess the blog post that everyone is screaming about could've been less condescending to people who hate EGS with a passion. I don't see how nobody would've expected that response from that. You put your hand in fire, and you're gonna get burned.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 01:07 PM
@Weeb Trash, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Weeb Trash said: @Dart Jong Un Be thankful that's the extent of your EGS experience. Personally I had to find out the hard way that this company is so lazy they don't even bother with two-factor authentication for account security. The same company that didnt deem it fit to send me an email with a Russian IP address requested changes to my account, and was given full access to my credit card information. I really hope they get their **** together. Competition is a great thing but personally Ive had nothing but rotten experiences with Epic as it stands. Maybe ill return once they take security more seriously
Tatahani 02-Aug-19 01:08 PM
@perplamps Regardless of anyone's stance on the Epic Store, your tone and remarks have been extremely unprofessional and offputting. And shutting down the subreddit? Not a good look.
Katieemmaw 02-Aug-19 01:08 PM
Everyone does realise they can give an opinion without being rude, right?
butterfly 02-Aug-19 01:09 PM
@Medea tbh the discussion on era is also a trashfire with mixed response and hot takes about "entitled developers". peak gamer crap i absolutely despise (edited)
FrozenPizza 02-Aug-19 01:09 PM
Y'all the Epic Game Store deal is WAY too good for any indie dev to pass up. Yall shouldn't be upset about it because of the deal, but how they handled telling everyone.
Chibeth 02-Aug-19 01:09 PM
People are making this WAY too big of a deal. I think a good portion of the complaints are coming from children who bandwagon'd their way here. You guys have my support, and I wish you luck dealing with all of this hate. I know it can't be easy. You guys rock, keep your heads up! ♡
MangoDuwudles 02-Aug-19 01:09 PM
I never took offense to the post because I knew it wasn’t directed at me 🤷‍♀️
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MacCoy 02-Aug-19 01:09 PM
same mango, haters gonna hate
Camoceltic 02-Aug-19 01:09 PM
`You wouldn't need to hire a PR person on a days notice if you read over your blog posted and noticed something wrong before posting it.Even as someone without a PR background, that blog post was A+ ridiculousness. Anybody who understands the basic concept of PR could tell that the best way to handle a controversial subject like Epic's exclusivity is with a bit of care, not snark. Had they left it at "They gave us a lot of money, which we'll use to make the game even better", much of the drama would never have happened.I mean this isn't complicated, the devs are running a business, the bag of cash from Epic is worth far more than consumer goodwill or some idealistic sense of morality, this is just capitalism.` Sales numbers are also part of capitalism. If bad PR leads to bad sales, Epic won't make the same deal, and the next game will be even harder to sell thanks to the devs' history.
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 01:09 PM
@unicron It must be tiring to purposefully misconstrue something as hard as youve done this. Ive been here most of today seeing bad faith arguments from people who really have little to no interest in the game and care more about Epic and its business practices. Many legit concerns have been addressed by the team, and most of these issues with regional availability are out of their hands, the deal is done, you really should talk to an Epic CSR about it. The blog post's tone was pretty much 100% consistent with everything I've seen from this game so far, I personally loved it, but it could be because Im not an entitled child
Medea 02-Aug-19 01:10 PM
@Camoceltic There would still have been a backlash tbh. Detractors just wouldn't have been given free ammo, though
gilwing 02-Aug-19 01:10 PM
I don't know anything abt fortnite so I'd never even heard of EGS before this 😂😂 my only reaction to the email was "ok cool whatever", can't believe how much it's blown up!!!
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Mustafa Fasula 02-Aug-19 01:11 PM
I see that you people didn't see the behaviour of the anti Epic people they will spend days or weeks harassing the developers because they went to become exclusive to the Epic games store and soon the store will be completed and youtubers won't be able to defend them any more
Sitrax 02-Aug-19 01:11 PM
Epic is just known for abusing it's employees and exploiting children. It's all good to be associated with that as long as they give you a big enough bag of cash.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 01:11 PM
to respond to a few repeated sentiments here, I think I made a big mistake in drastically underestimating the % of people reading the post who would be part of our existing audience and were used to our tone and style and the broader gaming audience that is looking for things to get angry about, especially when they're already angry about Epic
seemaq 02-Aug-19 01:12 PM
I find this chat to be very epic indeed
Some_Weeb 02-Aug-19 01:12 PM
Guys, honestly I think this comes to the choice of the consumer because at the end of the day, it's just a video game. I for one am personally sticking with Steam I love cloud saves and like to read user reviews from people who actually put hours of time into the game.
arc 02-Aug-19 01:12 PM
honestly, if i were the devs i would see all this as nothing but a positive. there are a few categories of reactions to this situation: - people who watch all the youtube gamer controversy videos and waste all of their time brigading reasonable people for imagined slights. i actively don't want these people in my community. - people who don't like the epic games store, some of which is based on misunderstandings, some of which is based on reality. most of these people have been understanding and still want the game/devs to be successful and will either buy the game anyway or wait until it comes out on a platform of their choice, so no harm there. - people who don't care about the epic games store but don't like the tone of the blog post even though they know it doesn't apply to them. most of these people have been understanding as well. - people who don't care about the epic games store AND think the blog post was completely spot on. this is where i stand, and i wasn't going to buy the game before all this, but now i am going to. so where are the supposed huge negative consequences of this controversy? all i can see is positives.
katers 02-Aug-19 01:12 PM
Thanks for your words today, devs, it's helped me feel better about the situation. (edited)
?? 02-Aug-19 01:12 PM
@Sitrax Exploting children?! Huh? That's a new one. I mean, relation does not equal cause if you are talking about the whole skins thing (edited)
Jacobim 02-Aug-19 01:13 PM
no no arc you don't understand. they said g*mers bad!!! epic-but-no-one-else is exploitative!!!
MarkGrant 02-Aug-19 01:13 PM
@gilwing same. The email was fine. Everyone seems to be blowing up about some blog post.
Em 02-Aug-19 01:13 PM
I know that the post isn't directed at me, but if someone is rude to someone next to me I still see it and it still makes me feel bad. I shouldn't have to go "I'm a lesbian" just for my opinion to be respected on how the posts tone was off. The first part about epic was goofy and funny, but the part about finding something else to be mad about feels dismissive and rude and I think there wouldn't be as much of a fuss if it wasn't included.
Silvie 02-Aug-19 01:13 PM
@arc I'm with you on that last point, and yeah I think once the brigading is over the money from the deal will be better than all this fuss
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 01:13 PM
Children buy videogames, ergo? @?? sarcasm
Dart Jong Un 02-Aug-19 01:13 PM
What week will Ooblets eventually be free on Epic Game Store as the bi-weekly free game? I have obtained like ten free games so far this year from Epic Games Store and want to eventually add Ooblets to my library.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 01:13 PM
@Rose Shrimp, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Rose Shrimp said: nah unicron's right, epic offers a shitload of money to people and i really can't blame anyone who takes the deal. it's Literally enough money that it doesn't really matter who buys your game at that point, epic apparently offer to cover the costs of lost sales, even! that really isn't the issue here, epic's abuse of employees and reliance on children overspending on microtransactions is. pretending that you're on the moral highground for defending a launcher tied to a company that has such practices @?? a lot of epic's income is from microtransactions that they structure to get kids to buy and, again, yeah i know other companies do this **** too. i know EA does. that's why i dont buy EA games either lmao
EmiliusTheAwesome 02-Aug-19 01:13 PM
I feel like the usual audience of the blog posts would have found it a little disappointing if the EGS blog post had lacked any humour and just been 'this is the situation, read what happened'
LordDon 02-Aug-19 01:14 PM
"I wish the gamedevs wouldn't have pre-emptively written that gamers would overreact about the announcement so I'm going to... overreact at the announcement and also overreact that they told me I would beforehand."
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Hobbes 02-Aug-19 01:14 PM
@arc You missed the category I sit in: People who have done their research into Epic and have concluded that the company is about as terrible as G2A and therefore will consider any developer who signs up with the EGS as equivalent to G2A and we all know the tweets about G2A now don't we? 😄
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Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 01:15 PM
Like seriously, epic and steam problems aside, the main problem people have is the tone of the post. THAT is whats catching everyone's attention. Another game going to epic is nothing and just another day of the week. The attitude of the post and the subsequent PR bumbling are out of the ordinary At this point, the less you guys say that isn't important things regarding the game or an apology/non-snark explanation, the better. Because as you're seeing it's just being used against you online
ace 02-Aug-19 01:15 PM
Thanks to the devs for showing their true feelings about 'GamersTM' in their blog post and discord discussions. I now know i shouldnt support you with my money, which is a shame because the game looks fun
Rhonlore 02-Aug-19 01:15 PM
"About as terrible as G2A" is a laughable statement.
SkyShard 02-Aug-19 01:15 PM
Idk, I've read all of the previous blog posts and I think its a bit naive to say that only the people unfamiliar with them would be dissapointed by the tone and humor.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 01:16 PM
@EmiliusTheAwesome is spot on, if we had made a cold press release, our actual audience would have found that offputting and totally out of character
firmo 3
vergeofapathy 02-Aug-19 01:16 PM
I seriously doubt that. I've been subscribed to your newsletter for a long time and immediately unsubscribed after reading that post…
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Steak 02-Aug-19 01:17 PM
a press release of that kind of scope should have been cold and to the point with out the snark and toxicity @perplamps you knew it was gonna be a hard pill to swallow but you chose to be toxic about it inviting more criticism of your post (edited)
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 01:17 PM
so many PR experts in here, wow
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Luwukian 02-Aug-19 01:17 PM
Luckly this launcher exclusivity doesn't exsist on the Nintendo Switch. Would be awesome if more games are willing to put their games out on the go.
unicron 02-Aug-19 01:18 PM
I really think my last comment was misunderstood, all I'm saying is I understand why they did it, I'm sure the devs made a calculated decision based on potential sales and found that by taking the Epic deal they would get more money, despite the exclusivity and backlash from the deal. If that turns out to be untrue and is ultimately a net negative for them, that's just the cost of doing business.
Nate 02-Aug-19 01:18 PM
@Hobbes Bruh, EG is not as bad as G2A. G2A is a site where people use fraudulent credit cards to provide people keys that may or may not be real, then chargeback the company that developed and owns the property of the game, costing them money. Not to mention the G2A creators are uncaring of the situation and won't even bother to worry about it .You should probably re-assess the situation before talking 👀
perplamps 02-Aug-19 01:18 PM
@yitzhak please stop @ing me if you don't have anything of value to say
happy to have you vent, but please don't @ me on something that there's no response I can satisfactorily give you
Audasaurus Rex 02-Aug-19 01:20 PM
as someone who reads every dev blog update I wasn't offended in the slightest by yesterdays announcement. firmo actually it made me change my mind about waiting to get it on steam
albieruru 02-Aug-19 01:20 PM
@perplamps Ok, WHO is your "actual audience" though? That was an announcement that you released onto Twitter, onto your website... isn't your "actual audience" anyone who would have read it? And if you wanted to keep it to hardcore Ooblets fans, a better idea might've been to keep that tone that they find amusing in an email, like Rebecca's, and a more professional direct-to-the-point announcement for general release?
a small sprout 02-Aug-19 01:21 PM
why is everyone being so awful to the devs, they made a blog post that came off the wrong way and it's not how they intended, and anyone in their shoes would have made the same deal with EGS it's just bumming me out reading all of this
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Jpeg 02-Aug-19 01:21 PM
Chinese spyware Child Exploitation As bad as G2A I've learned so much about the Epic Games Store in this OOBLETS discord.
JaceTwice 02-Aug-19 01:21 PM
@perplamps Cool cool, I’m glad to hear that’s not how you meant to come off and honestly i suspected that from the start. Now i just hope the wider audience can see that intent! Thanks for replying to me btw! I’ve never has interactions with devs like this before. Also I’ll identify myself as part of the crowd who isn’t familiar with the writing style. I’ve mostly seen your game through re-tweets that pop up from time to time. Not so much through any official channels
Chibeth 02-Aug-19 01:22 PM
I'm not sure what half of these people are doing here. If you don't like ooblets or the devs, then don't buy the game. Not agreeing with something doesn't give you the right to repeatedly bash someone over it.
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nubnub 02-Aug-19 01:22 PM
I think people are way overestimating the cost of making a handful of people upset about this. Largely the hate comes from people who would be unlikely to buy the game in the first place, this isn't true of all, there are a few legit concerns such as currency conversion issues for people who were onboard before. But it's being overblown by the vocal minority. Beyond that it would be extremely hard to quantify the effect on sales because... the game isnt out yet. It's mostly just noise right now.
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 01:22 PM
appreciate the understanding @JaceTwice
deedles 02-Aug-19 01:22 PM
Jpeg, do your own research. Half of the info that people throw in a blind rage is misinformation.
Sitrax 02-Aug-19 01:22 PM
Has a channel called "epic-chat" then people in the chat complain when people rightfully bash about Epic.
jacob 02-Aug-19 01:23 PM
the "business" in this case is a cute and wholesome game with a huge personality, the tone is the same as any other audience facing post. it's only being regarded as "toxic" by those who are upset by the decision, those who wonder how devs could dare do something that helps them secure a living in an extremely tough industry that mildly inconveniences them (if at all?), and for them daring not to be completely submissive and begging for mercy or apology because of it had the subject matter been something they agreed with they would think it's cute and in-character and well-written but because you don't like having to install two stores at once or not being completely submitted to we have all these cries of "unprofessional" and "toxic" (edited)
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Camoceltic 02-Aug-19 01:23 PM
@Medea `There would still have been a backlash tbh. Detractors just wouldn't have been given free ammo, though` Yeah, that's my whole point. By handling it with as little care as they did, they brought criticism even from people within their fanbase who aren't against Epic exclusivity, along with riling up people who hate Epic even more than just taking the deal would have.
Rose Shrimp 02-Aug-19 01:24 PM
Sources reveal long hours and intense pressure while working on hit game
Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 01:24 PM
Is it just me or the devs should take a page out of the subreddit and No Mans Sky play book and just say "hey guys we are going to focus on the game dev for a month", wait for this whole thing to settle down and then go back to chatting with the community.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 01:24 PM
@Hotgayboy, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Hotgayboy said: I mean I loved the concept of Ooblets, I did like the tongue in cheek offbeat humour that the devs conveyed, but the latest blog post felt like them * on my pillow case than giving me a slight jab.
Miles 02-Aug-19 01:25 PM
ah heck - i've been following you guys for a while and I read the article today and I felt it was a very calm and reasoned explanation of your decision - I just saw Jim Sterling's video and skimmed through it and it really does seem like a very unfair judgement just so he could continue the epic hate circlejerk - the one that I'm worried you guys are gonna get mobbed for now (sorry for butting in)
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 01:25 PM
@Rose Shrimp yes, because crunch @ Valve or GoG don't exist at all haha (wait)
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barret 02-Aug-19 01:25 PM
Sean really handled things well in the end. That was a really rough situation
Mustafa Fasula 02-Aug-19 01:25 PM
Epic games store now has cloud save so this complaint is no more and stop talking about crunch if people really cared about the crunch people rockstar and cd projekt red would have gone bankrupt
Paladin Knight 02-Aug-19 01:25 PM
@Miles he litterally said in the first 20 seconds he understands why devs take the money and encourages it...
🌈Arris🌈 02-Aug-19 01:26 PM
hi been following yall for a while, just wanted to say these people who have never heard of ooblets before pretending like they're not gonna buy it because of this is ridiculous
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jtownokie 02-Aug-19 01:26 PM
I was so excited for this game... it breaks my heart to see the way the developers are handling the situation and the people who have supported them from the very beginning.
Raekai 02-Aug-19 01:26 PM
@Chibeth Some of us have supported the game with our own money and aren't happy with the way things are turning out. That's totally fine. The rational people aren't raging. This is the problem. Raging Person: "Issue X is the worst issue ever. I hate you and I hate Ooblets now. Grr. I'm so mad. Everything is horrible now." Respectful Person: "Issue X bums me out. I hope others will understand." Response: "People who care about Issue X are dumb baby gamers who attach onto Gamergate drama because they are just so dumb." That's not great.
Weeb Trash 02-Aug-19 01:26 PM
i just wanted to say i wanted 10 minutes to ask when the game is coming out
Thornorium 02-Aug-19 01:26 PM
I said the same thing jim said yesterday, the statement just came off as poking at a wasps nest instead of JUST about the reasoning. Can't wait for Ooblets though
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 01:27 PM
Yes it's not an unfair judgement when a ton of people came away with the same feeling
Em 02-Aug-19 01:28 PM
They said to come here so that's what we did. I do read the blog posts but parts of it felt mean-spirited. If you replace "moving to epic" with "we changed one of the ooblet's haircut by one pixel" it still sounds really mean. You shouldn't make fun of people's feelings. It also feels dismissive to go "anyone who is mad is a fake fan" because you lost patreon supporters over this, didn't you? They oculdn't have all left because "well they're making money now guess they don't need this."
Syncix 02-Aug-19 01:28 PM
@Raekai i think the main thing people are angry over is the option 3 rather than other options, the post may have generated some questions but the damage control was...awful
Cherry 02-Aug-19 01:28 PM
@Miles Jim is on both sides for epic and against epic, he's not anti-epic completely
MarkGrant 02-Aug-19 01:28 PM
Hey guys, there’s this cool little gaming platform called Epic Games Store that started giving away free copies of Alan Wake and For Honor about 3 hours ago. You might want to check it out
Esmmazing 02-Aug-19 01:28 PM
If only people could rage like this about global warming. :(
Horze 02-Aug-19 01:28 PM
Honestly. I still believe the best thing EGS ever gave out was subnautica
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 01:28 PM
@TASTE THE PAIN!!, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@TASTE THE PAIN!! said: just stoppin on by to say that you came across as a huge **** in the discord screencaps and all. no response necessary!
Baloo 02-Aug-19 01:29 PM
@Esmmazing we do
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 01:29 PM
@ace, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@ace said: Im not pretending to not buy it because of this, im legit not buying it. Im never going to support a company that calls their customers 'gamer babys' and disrespects their customers. Also, very nice timing releasing your blog post right after patreon supporters got charged. Had to milk them for one last month before you ** them all off right?
Curlscurly 02-Aug-19 01:30 PM
@Esmmazing i know right? Imagine what we could have achieved already if all that energy put together here would have been directed to other causes...snurfler
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Yakkue 02-Aug-19 01:30 PM
what's the point of deleting a message and then reposting it?
LordDon 02-Aug-19 01:30 PM
Hey @ace, I'm joining the patreon in honor of your crybaby message.
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alexpdx 02-Aug-19 01:30 PM
Hello there your game looks adorable and i'll probably get it and I didn't know about it before the Jim Sterling video so some good has definitely come out of it
Hobbes 02-Aug-19 01:31 PM
@Jpeg Yes. Both G2A and Epic are fundamentally corrosive to the industry and marketplace, just in different ways. But make no mistake, Epic is as corrosive, it may not sell fraudulent keys, but it does things that are just as damaging to stores we might care about (like GOG) through the actions it takes. This isn't some plucky underdog fighting against steam, this is essentially UBER trying to eliminate things like taxis whilst at the same time making it worse for existing drivers.
turbobutts 02-Aug-19 01:31 PM
i take no issue with signing a deal with EGS. you would be crazy to pass on it. but i was less offended by the blog post than i was by the attitude exhibited during the damage control in a handful of specific exchanges. still excited for the game and everything, but it's not cool to blow off people like that when they're calm and respectful (edited)
Rhonlore 02-Aug-19 01:31 PM
@turbobutts I think you will find that most people haven't been calm or respectful.
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Chibeth 02-Aug-19 01:32 PM
@Raekai You're putting words in their mouth. And even if they did word for word say that, then maybe people shouldn't be so sensitive. This is a video game we're all talking about! Not a crisis.
Orbit49 02-Aug-19 01:32 PM
It doesnt matter whats going on in the world. Treating your supporters like this is pretty unacceptable. As if worldwide problems soften the harshness of the backlash pft
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 01:33 PM
uh, @Hobbes have any facts to back up your metaphor? You're essentially saying being a willing vector for laundering credit card fraud is the same as buying exclusive games to put on a store.
deedles 02-Aug-19 01:33 PM
@Raekai people who’ve expressed their dismay in a reasonable fashion and not just harping on the devs always received a warm response. The respectful people you talk of are a dime a dozen. Also, ooblets has also released their devlogs at the end of the month since their devlogs inception, just to wrap up the things they’ve worked on over the past month.
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Direstar 02-Aug-19 01:34 PM
Came here to say, wanted to buy this game really bad, and I actually use Epic Games Store to play Dauntless so no problem there... but your attitude about this situation is just horrible, and I can’t support people that act like they’re better than others. You don’t feel like you act that way, but you do. Sorry you have to deal with actual harassment amid the valid criticism, that’s not cool. Just thought I’d give my two cents as someone who followed this game closely and read everything you guys put out :/ @perplamps
INfusion 02-Aug-19 01:36 PM
I think people just get overwhelmed by the amount of criticism theyre going to receive by going epic, so instead of trying to appease people they just close everyone off, I noticed this in a lot of epic announcements
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 01:36 PM
as jacob said this idea that the developers need to be submissive and apologetic, is just ridiculous. the customer isn't always right. imagine how you might act in the face of all this attention and absurd backlash. they have been exceedingly gracious.
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Katie 02-Aug-19 01:37 PM
how come people keep bringing up the crunch stuff? a lot of companies suffer from crunch, I don't believe any of you are sincere about this point, especially since you're trying to use this information to cause additional stress to a developer trying to make ends meet. I'm glad that Epic were at least addressing their crunch issues, they even recently added 2 2 week paid vacations at summer and christmas on top of their normal paid holiday to help combat it, which is more than I can say for a lot of large companies
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Weeb Trash 02-Aug-19 01:37 PM
@deedles People who respectfully and reasonably voice their concerns are still derided by massive amounts of snark and are told to go solve global warming instead of worrying about a video game.
никто 02-Aug-19 01:37 PM
the customers are the ones that put the money in your pocket so you should be apologetic if you've upset such a large amount of them @rhymenoceros (edited)
barret 02-Aug-19 01:37 PM
people who never experienced crunch like to make comments about crunch.
Cherry 02-Aug-19 01:38 PM
@rhymenoceros You've obviously never worked retail
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 01:38 PM
@Hobbes Epic's aggressive business practises are nowhere near what G2A does, which is facilitate money laundering for a cut of the money, thats just a really disingenuous argument to make. So many comments about Epic's business practices are being aimed here and not actually at Epic (that said please dont go nagging Epic's community managers about decisions that they have nothing to do with)
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 01:39 PM
@Nate, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Nate said: Well I mean, once you're locked in a business deal like that, what kind of appeasing are you going to do? It seems like there are a crowd of people who are going to be upset at you joining EG no matter what. It seems like the best way to handle it is to just not have whatever game you were going to sell on Steam, (not the case for this game, but a lot of people were ** at Metro, Shenmue, etc. for pledging to be on Steam at first and then going EGS) and to either take a policy of silence or talk about it in a way that doesn't upset as many people as possible
Syn 02-Aug-19 01:39 PM
So I've joined this discord after seeing the latest blog post and having this game on my steam wishlist. I'm not angry at all about the exclusivity deal, I really do understand the move from a development perspective. It's great to be given an opportunity like this and have the security that it provides with guaranteed sales. I feel like this was thought about alot as the blog post was quite detailed. I wanted to ask as I am really excited about Ooblets myself and want to play it after having been following the development for awhile but I was wondering if there was a specific timeframe on the exclusivity deal before it releases on other PC storefronts? It wasn't mentioned on the blog unless it can't be disclosed as part of the deal.
🌈Arris🌈 02-Aug-19 01:39 PM
The tone they used with the epic post was the same tone they've used for every other dev post. Nonserious, joking, etc. The people pretending this was a genuine attempt to talk down to people is ridiculous. Was it maybe misplaced? Sure, but harassment on this level is not at all justified, especially from the people who have NEVER heard of ooblets before.
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Taylor 02-Aug-19 01:40 PM
I must say. Fortnite's dev team ≠ Epic Game Store devs.
Ricethin 02-Aug-19 01:40 PM
Hey @perplamps - wanted to say every one of us over here at Whitethorn Digital supports you guys. We love everything you're doing regardless of what store it is or isn't on. I'm sorry you're going through this whole thing, as we've seen a lot of it on our end. End users don't think about the realities of dev when they get nasty and at the end of the day developers need to eat food to live, and every single one that says 'omg i'm not gunna buy yer game' was just a toxic steam review waiting to happen anyway - keep doing what you're doing and we'll just lurk ❤ love from PA.
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Miles 02-Aug-19 01:40 PM
This is why the video was overall a negative thing for the game and is basically just a hit on the game --> Ignore Anime Avatars 1 hour ago "Well the dev just inadvertantly lost my business before me even hearing about this game lol." - 30 likes
jacob 02-Aug-19 01:40 PM
it's a totally insincere argument, no one who cares about game workers rights in earnest would try to so viciously hurt two kind people for 48 hours for making a game while securing a living over something as absurd as "free store brand loyalty" this isn't about crunch or security or any other bad faith argument being used to justify entitlement and completely misplaced anger over something so many have you have put so little thought into (edited)
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Bvkakke🎀🦈 02-Aug-19 01:40 PM
I’m not a big fan of the epic game store. Simply for convenience sake. As someone who has been watching the game since its infancy, I do understand why the exclusivity deal was taken. But I refuse to buy this game if it is going to be on a platform that doesn’t even have a shopping cart system or really any kind of user friendly interface to make people feel at home. I’m also not happy with the attitude used in the post. While I do get the “haha cute post” deal it’s a little inappropriate when you’re throwing half of your supporters/backers under the bus by putting this game on a half baked platform.
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lighten 02-Aug-19 01:41 PM
People who keep complaining about « valid » and « respectful » critics being ignored : i just hear that : how dare you not subject yourself to verbal abuse and threats just to read my « critic » that’s lost among them and has already been said 10 times already, also i’m just going to ignore the fact that the dev gave an email adress for any concerns i might have and keep complaining on discord/reddit/whatever Anyway much love to the devs
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turbobutts 02-Aug-19 01:42 PM
two wrongs don't make a right. i learned that in preschool
DongBeetle 02-Aug-19 01:42 PM
Is the Switch version only going to be on the epic game store too
b00 02-Aug-19 01:42 PM
Yall talk about talking down then you say that turbo... hmmMMmmMmm
Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 01:43 PM
@jacob Oh no the gamers are coming. Better start calling them entitled, that will show them.
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Chibeth 02-Aug-19 01:43 PM
Personally, I don't think that the launcher is going to take anything away from the game.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 01:43 PM
@Bunny Princess, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Bunny Princess said: I knew absolutely nothing about this game before the reddit post, but ****, the pre-emptive lash out from the devs is wild. I have no issues with the EGS, however the assumptions being made by the devs are WILD.
LordDon 02-Aug-19 01:44 PM
@Dabjulmaros maybe if gamers didn't continually prove out the stereotype, it wouldn't exist, but it happens again and again, day after day
Pixel Hat 02-Aug-19 01:44 PM
Personally I don't think the launcher is what most people are grumpy about but people keep using it (and global warming) to deflect
xShyBoo 02-Aug-19 01:44 PM
Hi I joined earlier today, and I'm a bit confused about why everyone is so angry? is this only because of them making it an exclusive for the epic games store?
Curlscurly 02-Aug-19 01:45 PM
Oh no, someone who feels offended by the word "entitlement" 👶 🍼
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Raekai 02-Aug-19 01:45 PM
@lighten I've emailed and worked out most of my issues. The continuing issue for me is that the devs and the community has been dismissive of the actual criticism from the start, which I'd imagine is why people keep repeating their grievances. I'm happy that the Ooblets team got this funding. That's great! It didn't work out so well for me, though, because I don't like/trust/support Epic. Between Patreon and merch, I've spent over $100 on supporting this game, so, even though I know I was never entitled to it, it's still a bit of a bummer that my needs aren't being met. But oh well. As others have said, I'll wait for it to come out on Steam or something. Again, the persisting issue is that there's a fire here and there are trolls on both sides fanning the flames. And the devs haven't been clean of it either.
hanshotfirst21 02-Aug-19 01:45 PM
@xShyBoo yuuuup. But I don't think it's a good representation of the larger group of fans.
Lodeman 02-Aug-19 01:45 PM
Man people really are at each other's throat here, on both sides. Completely unnecessary 😿
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Em 02-Aug-19 01:46 PM
they're also angry because of how the devs worded the initial statement and their comments after the fact @xShyBoo
Medea 02-Aug-19 01:46 PM
people really live for drama, I guess
Thornorium 02-Aug-19 01:46 PM
the 10 min slow mode doesnt help since you cant have conversations anymore, its a bit long :/ just give me 10 mins to respond to your response ; editing ftw (edited)
The Sin Cave ™ 02-Aug-19 01:46 PM
@xShyBoo an important business decision was announced in a very unprofessional manner
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Tormenator1 02-Aug-19 01:47 PM
Bruh. It's fucking absurd how people respond to criticism by just spamming 👶 (edited)
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AlGore 02-Aug-19 01:47 PM
@Ricethin "'omg i'm not gunna buy yer game' was just a toxic steam review waiting to happen anyway" Not necessarily. I won't use the EGS for no other reason than after my account got hacked, they refused to refund my money or ban the hackers. If the EGS is the only PC storefront that Ooblets is offered on, I will not buy it. I think the game looks like great fun, but if my options for purchase are limited, I won't jump through hoops to get it.
INfusion 02-Aug-19 01:47 PM
ah yes resorting to calling a critisim by calling them a baby, real mature people
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 01:47 PM
bruh indeed
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SyntheticTeapot 02-Aug-19 01:48 PM
what @Em said. Then the fact that people who vehemently support the blogpost are berating those who did find the tone disappointing.
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Camoceltic 02-Aug-19 01:48 PM
@Mustafa Fasula `Epic games store now has cloud save so this complaint is no moreFor only 2 games out of their entire catalog. At best, the feature is in a testing stage. <@132918257588895744>Yes it's not an unfair judgement when a ton of people came away with the same feeling"Am I out of touch? No, it's everyone else who's wrong."Personally I don't think the launcher is what most people are grumpy about but people keep using it (and global warming) to deflect` Yeah, that's a big part of it. Total dismissal of any and all legitimate complaints turned this controversy from a soft 3-4 to a hard 8
agpino 02-Aug-19 01:48 PM
Isn't this channel proving how toxic the community can be at times ?
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SatansSlurpee 02-Aug-19 01:48 PM
some are some aren't, no need to say that all of anything is anything
softwarefreak 02-Aug-19 01:48 PM
For better or worse this debacle has garnered attention the Developers would not want, including the myriad of internet trolls. From my Journalistic perspective, there is nothing here that a reader of a PC Gaming Magazine in the UK would really be interested in (this matter is akin to generic gossip, here today gone tomorrow, forgotten next month). I look forward to writing about the game upon its release. 😺
perplamps 02-Aug-19 01:49 PM
thanks @softwarefreak !
Wylly7 02-Aug-19 01:49 PM
ngl most people saying how rude others are being are the same ones reacting with baby emotes to everything that disagrees with them, we shilling out here
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Katie 02-Aug-19 01:49 PM
I think everyone needs to read this article on what happens to game developers on a daily basis https://medium.com/@morganjaffit/the-cost-of-doing-business-c09cc5cc8728 the toxic percentage of gamers make things harder and more stressful to have a good open relationship with our audience. It might be better to understand where the developers are coming from, what they are struggling with and why they might be somewhat frustrated and exhausted, this isn't a "new issue", game developers have been dealing with this nonsense for YEARS
Content warning : I’ve embedded some tweets to various developers that show the sorts of comments that they receive every day. There’s some…
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Ricethin 02-Aug-19 01:50 PM
@Katie this is literally our every day. Drinking in tears while people we try to make happy poo on our doorstep
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 01:51 PM
Id happily shill for the 2 devs receiving a torrent of hate because a company gave them financial security to make the game of their dreams
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Evey 02-Aug-19 01:51 PM
The harassment gamedevs face is 1000% another reason we need to unionize ✊
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Rhonlore 02-Aug-19 01:51 PM
Epic Store has the features I care about. 1) The ability to purchase games and that the money goes to developers. Literally every other feature is bloat or irrelevant to my interests. I think that people really need to do some soul searching to determine what is truly important to them.
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Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 01:52 PM
also the unpaid overtime, bad pto, and low wages on average
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celtchar 02-Aug-19 01:52 PM
@softwarefreak by 'PC Gaming Magazine' do you mean PC Gamer? Because we already know they're Epic's unofficial PR department
Waterdude 02-Aug-19 01:52 PM
Free market, get a job that pays better.
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 01:52 PM
'attitude of vocal 0.1% of gamers who nobody will moderate' just block them you dingus doofus
alexpdx 02-Aug-19 01:53 PM
•yes epic's store is bad •yes it would have been nice for this to get a steam release •no this isn't worth people yelling about •no don't in fact harass people that's a big nono •i'd rather have a good game on a bad storefront that gets attention than a good game on an okay storefront promoted next to 'EPIC STEAM DIRECT MEME GAME 2K20' and 'SHOVELWARE ASSET FLIP #299472'
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jacob 02-Aug-19 01:53 PM
desire and wanting to exchange money for a service is not the same as being entitled to said service but im happy you got your patronizing two cents in over a game you have no intention to buy
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 01:53 PM
4chan meme maga hat avatar: "Calm, rational thinking consumer here"
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Chibeth 02-Aug-19 01:53 PM
Would like to point out that I've seen this several times today already, "Not actually here for the game as I have no intention to buy it". Most of the people here are just following the hate train.
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Weeb Trash 02-Aug-19 01:53 PM
That entire article basically boiled down to "mean people on twitter". Did the person in that article actually work in the industry?
mothyard 02-Aug-19 01:54 PM
I’m not a fan of epic so much, but I’ve been very invested in following your development for several years now. Something as trivial as this is something I would never drop support over. Plan to buy at launch still. Good luck guys!
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girlthulu 02-Aug-19 01:55 PM
people who are attacking the devs: Yes, the devs were a bit rude in their post. a bit rude. that rudeness may have caused you a moment of discomfort. however, I can guarantee you that what you are saying to the devs? that will cause a lot more than discomfort. the devs are people, please remember that
Fjolle 02-Aug-19 01:56 PM
If people really want to support the developers they should boycot the game of EGS and buy it elsewhere. The devs will then get both your and Epics money.
🌈Arris🌈 02-Aug-19 01:56 PM
imagine not wanting to buy a game anyways but you join a discord to harass two indie devs for no reason
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The Sin Cave ™ 02-Aug-19 01:56 PM
A bit rude? Come on now. They were full-on rude and, again, unprofessional.
Cherry 02-Aug-19 01:56 PM
I love the review bombing argument, you can literally filter that out on steam reviews.. User reviews help me a ton in my decision to buy and the ability to refund games is a huge plus that I cant justify using the epic store for
никто 02-Aug-19 01:57 PM
Imagine using the word "harassing" every time someone criticizes the devs.
Bunny Princess 02-Aug-19 01:57 PM
@girlthulu Don’t make generalizing statements over everyone. I haven’t said anything personally negative about the devs, or to them. I’m voicing my opinion that the way they conducted themselves is incredibly disappointing, and I can’t support developers that seem so blasé about the people that want to buy their game. I have no personal issues with the Epic Games Store, but the people saying “the devs are immune to all criticism because they’re HUMANS with FEELINGS” are absolutely ridiculous and missing the point.
AlGore 02-Aug-19 01:57 PM
@Chibeth But at the same time, I had never heard of this game before today so... no news is bad news?
Jeffdev 02-Aug-19 01:57 PM
they were hardly rude honestly, they explained their side against the hate that Epic gets and maybe were slightly rude, but some people get far too up in arms about this
LordDon 02-Aug-19 01:58 PM
Imagine using the word "toxic" when referencing a blogpost that's literally in the same tone as every other blogpost.
seemaq 02-Aug-19 01:58 PM
"Most of the people here are just following the hate train" no we're not, stop being so dismissive pls
Lodeman 02-Aug-19 01:58 PM
I will use my 10 minute slot to inform people that I have just been petting and playing with my fluffy cat 😻
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b00 02-Aug-19 01:59 PM
Lmao bye <3
nubnub 02-Aug-19 01:59 PM
Small indie who makes a financial decision to ensure game gets completed is the same as a multinational corporation using predatory practices right? Lol come on. Try a little harder @Aura
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donutnut1 02-Aug-19 01:59 PM
Tone doesn't define the context, yes it was in the same humorous tone as every other blogpost but the content of the post could've been better thought out
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Katie 02-Aug-19 01:59 PM
So instead of moderating your behavior online developers are just expected to deal with it, and waste their time constantly having to block people on twitter. You're angry because the developers were rude to you in a news post, yet you see no issue with the abuse developers face on twitter? and you wonder why we don't take your opinions seriously, when you clearly lack any respect or empathy for us BillieShrug
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turbobutts 02-Aug-19 02:00 PM
ok fellas, beans or no beans in your chili
Medea 02-Aug-19 02:00 PM
beans tbh
Erik 02-Aug-19 02:00 PM
Beans
INfusion 02-Aug-19 02:01 PM
I dont understand why you guys dont respond to actual criticisms of each other and instead go for "grow up" and stupid stuff like that, it doesnt prove your point, it just proves that you have no point
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hablo 02-Aug-19 02:01 PM
only beans
terriblerex 02-Aug-19 02:01 PM
You’ve gotta have some beans I’m saying a lot of beans but a bit is nice
Dragobbi 02-Aug-19 02:01 PM
Don't get why people are gettin gso fired up over this. Just pirate the game if it's good and move on. After all there are much larger issues around you - climate change, human right abuses, etc. (edited)
Em 02-Aug-19 02:02 PM
I'd love to not harass them but they shut down the reddit so there's nowhere else to discuss. This is the only place I have to talk to people except for the steampage and everyone there just wants to rip on the entitled gamer comments. If an area where the devs couldn't hear me at all existed but I could still discuss it I'd love to go there instead.
Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 02:02 PM
i personally thought the post was hilarious. it may seem rude if you think they're talking about you though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 02:02 PM
@Pixel Hat, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Pixel Hat said: Beans are good and healthy. They're good for your heart. The more you eat, the more you *. The more you *, the better you feel. So eat your beans at every meal.
MEULYN 02-Aug-19 02:03 PM
I joined because I knew there would be hate here. I've been following this game for a while on steam because of the artstyle. I'm still gonna buy the game, if i could buy it for anyone else who needs it I would. Just wanna say I love u and what you're doing, keep going, it's the final push petula
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Dukkit 02-Aug-19 02:03 PM
The Epic Exclusivity deal would have drawn attention anyways, and it's completely understandable that the tone of the blogpost is consistent with the rest of them. The character and brand you set for yourself does go a long way in giving charm to the game it's promoting. But let's be honest. The overwhelming majority do not hate Epic Exclusivity anymore. It was blind hatred that has since then simmered into jaded and more mellow forms of contempt. What has been hated without fail are Triple AAA Studio and Crowdfunded studios going EGS. When Hades, a game by SuperGiantGames was Epic exclusive, I wasn't upset. I was glad that one of my favorite indie devs were making it big. When Shenmue 3 and Borderlands 3 became exclusive I felt like I was being told to go f* myself. Indie developers have every right to a pass when it comes to the Epic Game Exclusivity deals, as they are the one type of developer who has a legitimate reason to do so. Crowdfunding doesn't count. I gave the money to build the game, I want it where it was advertised. It is completely understandable that you would make the call. Anyone faulting you for the deal is actually a hater.
unicron 02-Aug-19 02:03 PM
Why spend the energy responding to legitimate criticisms when we can just group them in with the trolls and blanket respond to all of them by calling them babies?
KamikazePlatypus 02-Aug-19 02:03 PM
You know a lot of the issues here stem from people making large sweeping generalizations about other people. Just an observation. 😐
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Evey 02-Aug-19 02:04 PM
again it's so incredibly telling to me that almost every person here who is a fellow game developer is entirely supportive of the devs and their decision
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 02:04 PM
There are ways to announce an Epic Store exclusivity deal that might not eradicate backlash, but will certainly minimize it. Then there's the way to Ooblets ...
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Ricethin 02-Aug-19 02:05 PM
10 years between Playstation and Volition now run my own label - unionize, ban toxicity, throw out unruly folks. You're making a product, not working in someone's home. They don't have to like your 'attitude' and you have no obligation to 'be' anything for anyone.
SIETSO 02-Aug-19 02:05 PM
They asked people with legit concerns to email them. Can't expect them to reply to the constant brigade all the time
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 02:05 PM
@Em Feel free to email either of the devs, from what I understand its much easier for u to get a response from them there as long as your concern is legit. I've been in here long enough to realise a lot of these misinformed "criticisms" are just being recycled and that looks hella annoying for them to deal with. They've been responding to serious concerns here (earlier) and via email all day
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girlthulu 02-Aug-19 02:06 PM
@Bunny Princess generalising statement? I started it with "everyone who is attacking the devs" if you haven't been attacking the devs, my statement is not for you.
Rhonlore 02-Aug-19 02:06 PM
I usually agree with Jim Sterling but I believe he is in the wrong this time.
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Syn 02-Aug-19 02:06 PM
@perplamps Sorry for the ping. I'm sure you've gotten loads today. I'm loving the progress of your game so far but I was wondering if there was a specific timeframe for the exclusivity deal. If it's really long, I'll be sure to download EGS and buy at launch. I'm just a simple person who likes to have all their games in one place for convenience. If you don't respond or can't disclose anything more about the deal, that's fine. I wanted to wish you both good luck with development anyways and I can't wait for the release! ❤
perplamps 02-Aug-19 02:07 PM
it will probably be a while @Syn
i posted about it in a pinned message
Bvkakke🎀🦈 02-Aug-19 02:08 PM
Is this exclusivity only for a year?
arc 02-Aug-19 02:09 PM
it's hard to present a fair and well thought out viewpoint on every topic when your incentive for creating content is getting views to make money and a big part of how to get views is posting as soon as possible edit: hi benstar, looking forward to revita :) (edited)
agpino 02-Aug-19 02:10 PM
Jim is used to reacting to a particular type of behavior. And I think he's jumped the gun on this one.
TenDot11 02-Aug-19 02:10 PM
I love how people are honestly getting mad for a full time developer to take a financial opportunity to be able to live comfortably and having to download a free launcher. I’m not sure I understand the hate here. So it’s bad for them to take an offer? I mean if I was developing a game and my normal job barely paid the bills I’d take it too.
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никто 02-Aug-19 02:11 PM
people aren't mad because of that tendot11
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INfusion 02-Aug-19 02:11 PM
people are mad due to many reasons, not just becuase "free launcher"
DaBomb 02-Aug-19 02:11 PM
I don't think many people have complained about them moving to Epic, the main complaint is how they announced it and how they've handeled PR since then.
Cherry 02-Aug-19 02:12 PM
the argument because of the free launcher is stupid, it's how bad the Epic store is. I'm fine with the devs making the move.
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 02:13 PM
Yeah, I agree with Jim Sterling on a lot of things but he sometimes misses the mark a bit.
LordDon 02-Aug-19 02:13 PM
They could've done a sick kickflip with fireworks going off in the background while blaring Serj Tankian and announced an EGS exclusive and still would've gotten a hate mob.
BenStar 02-Aug-19 02:13 PM
I am surprised and saddened at the same time, that this is still going on. The devs took a deal with epic to gain financial stability, something, probably ever dev would have done in their case. But that doesn't mean they are epic, nor are they able to fix most to all of the issues. Be it regional pricing, or epics "shady history". The blog post was completly in line with their previous ones and from my experience talking to the devs and seeing them interact on twitter and here, had not a hint of malice in it. Was it perfect? Maybe not, maybe a serious blogpost would have been better. But whats done is done and i am pretty sure the devs know this by now. On the critism part, yes the epic store is far from perfect, but thats nothing the devs could fix. The few valid critisisms that they actually have impact on, I am sure they are taking to heart. But what this chat has shown me over the last 24 hours is, that there is definitely a reason the "toxic gamer" stereotype exists. Obviously thats not everyone here, I have seen a ton of people who had valid arguments and presented them in a fashion that isn't rude to the maximum extend and more power to those people, but please also understand that there is stuff that is out of their hands and they are trying their best to be as transparent as they can be about this and that is while being bombarded by a lot of garbage. They have all my respect for that and I hope we as a community can move past this as soon as possible and get back to enjoying cute ooblets stuff. edit: thanks arc! 🌟 (edited)
NewGeo 02-Aug-19 02:13 PM
Seems to be dead on with this one 😂
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:13 PM
The large majority of people are mad because free launcher that isn't the one they've been coerced over the years to exclusively support, actually - scroll up if you don't believe it 👀 Reminder that you're not going to buy or play the EGS, you would actually be buying / playing Ooblets, which is not, in fact, the EGS! if you have privacy issues go to privacy.com and make a spoof card, literally free (edited)
Weeb Trash 02-Aug-19 02:14 PM
The "free launcher" that still lacks two-factor authentication and has glaring security issues. I wouldnt trust EGS with my credit card information if you paid me.
Loriot 02-Aug-19 02:14 PM
It all boils down to we want to support game makers, but not epic
TheMintedLady 02-Aug-19 02:14 PM
I would argue that Jim's primary reaction is to the Devs' PR reaction, and personally I feel he's right. When running a business/attempting to sell a product, it's best to stay neutral and not let your emotions get anywhere near your response to backlash, both potential and existing.
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 02:14 PM
oh this is still going 0JonTronWTF
Luwukian 02-Aug-19 02:14 PM
Yea pirating shouldn't be treated that badly when the game has plans on a Nintendo switch release. If it turns out to be good then spreading the word for it would definitely give them some new fans.
Em 02-Aug-19 02:15 PM
The point is I DON'T want them to see it. They've heard people say basically my opinion a hundred times and doubled-down on it. I want to have conversations about what kind of behavior we're willing to drop games over, why piracy isn't a valid type of boycotting, why exclusivity is still bad even if it's free, that kind of thing. The timer also doesn't help bc it's been 10 minutes since the person responded to me said anything.
alexpdx 02-Aug-19 02:16 PM
I'm a huge, massive jim sterling fan. I literally got into games journalism because of him. I disagree with him about this. That's okay. I can still thank God for Jim F***ing Sterling Son while disagreeing with him sometimes.
Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 02:16 PM
@DorkOrca They are mad cause they dont have a choice. Sure let me sign my soul to a Chinese company. Im sure nothing bad will come out of it. And EGS is taking a cut, so if you buy from EGS you are supporting them. Big no no
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Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 02:16 PM
why do people keep saying egs doesn't have 2FA. this is easily verifiable info edit: spoiler alert, it has multiple forms of 2FA edit2: yes i know they do, that's why i'm wondering why people keep saying that edit3: why is there no smh emoji. :smh: (edited)
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Cruduxy 02-Aug-19 02:17 PM
Lol the china stuff are still used by people?
Dukkit 02-Aug-19 02:18 PM
I feel like each person generalizing everyone who mad as people who just hate Epic exclusives are completely missing the thing people are actually upset about, then giving ammo to generalize them as corporate shills, despite the fact literally everybody is okay with the developers taking the deal and the blog post announcing it is the issue people have. @Zeraphines they do. Got that neat Fortnite emote with it too.
seemaq 02-Aug-19 02:18 PM
"everyone I don't like is a baby" is a very mature position to take lol
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 02:18 PM
What's with the community and mocking people for having criticizms? Specifically the reacts done by the star belly people. I've seen it happen more than 10 times.
GammaGames 02-Aug-19 02:19 PM
@DorkOrca huh, another person that doesn't actually understand why people that have been supporting and following the game for years and have to wait because they don't want to support EGS would have a reason to be upset. Why do so many gold users always seem so defensive and misunderstanding? (edited)
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Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 02:19 PM
Tbqh, they're starting to sound like blind fans who think they can do no wrong
SyntheticTeapot 02-Aug-19 02:20 PM
@Hotgayboy Honestly it's not helping anything. (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 02:20 PM
let's try to limit the personal attacks on all sides so we can maybe start trying to find some common ground here
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hablo 02-Aug-19 02:21 PM
i just want to play Death Stranding bro
INfusion 02-Aug-19 02:21 PM
mood
agpino 02-Aug-19 02:21 PM
I feel like some people are fanning the flames since they enjoy the dramatic argument and chaos. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 02:22 PM
@Weeb Trash If u dont want to use the EGS thats fine, its your call to make but what do you want these guys to do about it? The deal is done and its sad to say but all you can really do is wait for the exclusivity deal to end or for EGS to beef up its security to your standards. I know quite a few people who refuse to use the EGS for whatever reasons but seeing chinese spyware, crunch and lack of """"features"""" thrown around as "valid" reasons is really annoying
Raekai 02-Aug-19 02:22 PM
C O M M O N G R O U N D Preach! I just wasted 10 minutes on saying this... (edited)
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47Ways 02-Aug-19 02:23 PM
how is lack of features not a valid reason?
DaBomb 02-Aug-19 02:23 PM
>supporters have to wait the ten minutes too LMAO (edited)
Cherry 02-Aug-19 02:23 PM
@Jpeg lack of features is a valid reason, they're behind the competition including Origin and uPlay. Until Epic makes a dent rather than exclusive deals I won't be touching it
LordDon 02-Aug-19 02:24 PM
to be fair I just got starbelly and I have no idea what that means or how I got it
Audasaurus Rex 02-Aug-19 02:24 PM
starbelly is meaningless
Ananym 02-Aug-19 02:24 PM
Heck, EGS doesn't even have a right click menu. It's like they've forgotten that they're even a desktop app. It's a real pain for someone with accessibility issues. I'll consider it when they sort themselves out, but I'll just let them keep paying for my missed sales for now.
repulsor101 02-Aug-19 02:24 PM
How many features do you need to play a game really? I just launch games. Don't care at all about trophies or anything. Can't think of a single feature I need that epic doesn't have
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Mandarina 02-Aug-19 02:24 PM
hey guys, how long do you think it will take the game to release to steam from it's original release.
Loriot 02-Aug-19 02:25 PM
tbh couldn't this whole mess have been avoided if you guys stayed with double fine?
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DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:25 PM
@GammaGames "Not wanting to support EGS" has been shown time and time again to largely amount to fearmongering and misinformation (which has been addressed over and over here), as shown by the people who keep acting like fools and bringing up China 👀 If you've bought any games on Steam you've supported Valve, which is an equally bloated multi-billion-dollar company with a very similar history of labor exploitation 🤷 it's hypocritical of people to go "company bad for doing evil capitalist things, should have gone with other evil company instead!" (edited)
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Epicarious 02-Aug-19 02:26 PM
They could put the game on both stores though @DorkOrca (assuming no contract was signed) edit: it was (edited)
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Monolithic 02-Aug-19 02:26 PM
Labour exploitation? Care to elaborate?
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Luthyr 02-Aug-19 02:26 PM
Why not wait until Ooblets releases to decide if EGS has enough features? If the store has been open for 8 months, and it takes 16 more months from now for Ooblets to release, that's quite a lot of time for missing features to be implemented.
Osteos 02-Aug-19 02:26 PM
I'm having flashbacks to the borderlands 3 discord when their epic deal got announced. so many shills
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BenStar 02-Aug-19 02:27 PM
Lack of features is indeed a valid complaint, but there is nothing the devs can do about that. I get not wanting to use/support the EGS but there is nothing the devs can do about the issues with the store itself. The deal is done.
Viperishrhyme5 02-Aug-19 02:27 PM
The only true thing I wonder is how will signing with epic affect sales one it does get released on other platforms and if it is gonna be released as a "new" game full price or if it might be a lower price
Bunny Princess 02-Aug-19 02:27 PM
I just think the devpost oozed “I’m a child, be nice to me while I make generalizations” xd
Rhonlore 02-Aug-19 02:28 PM
It did not though
deedles 02-Aug-19 02:29 PM
Criticism is welcomed, although generalizing the devs as corporate shills who care nothing about their fans because of a devlog that has had the same tone and jokey nature as their past two dozen devlogs, which is what usually resonates with fans, isn’t really cool. There are many valid criticisms to be had about epic, sure, but there are none about the creators who are just trying to do what’s best for their game and themselves (which means best for the consumers!). By no means is anyone defending epic by defending ooblets and their journey to complete their game as they imagined
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 02:29 PM
some of you are clearly defending egs tho 🕙 👀 (edited)
Breadman 02-Aug-19 02:30 PM
I mean, I can understand why people think the devs don't care about fans when some people who have been very reasonable are just getting called "entitled", or have the devs going "well just don't buy the game, lul", and also bragging about how they don't need patrons anymore
GammaGames 02-Aug-19 02:30 PM
@DorkOrca but... You're literally refusing to try to understand what some of us are saying. You're being willfully ignorant to many valid complaints because some loud people in the past were incorrect. It's so close minded. I fully support the devs for taking the deal, it makes sense for them. But I am not going to support epic for many reasons that I have explained before, both here and in reddit. I am simply voicing my disappointment that I will have to wait, but you feel like making accusations at others that feel the same as me. (edited)
TheMintedLady 02-Aug-19 02:30 PM
I'm just going to say that I was personally offput by the initial DevBlog announcement, and it did come off as preemptively defensive, which I do feel help fanned the flames. Responses I've seen from the Devs in this channel yesterday, haven't helped my perspective in that area. I work in Administration for a corporation that regularly deals with what one might consider real-life trolls, constantly looking for ways to get one over on us in the face of the media. I've learned that you just can't let your emotions get the better of you; you can't just respond to potential media backlash with whatever you "think" is an okay response. It always just makes things worse. I was bummed about the Epic announcement, but as with other games I'm waiting for on Steam, I will get over it. It just doesn't look good if anyone who wants people to be interested in their product/brand seems to take a negative stance towards any level of disagreeable feedback. Save that for venting offline; try to be neutral online.
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Vajra 02-Aug-19 02:31 PM
@DorkOrca that should not have to be an option, if you are concerned about your privacy, making a spoof card should not be something you have to resort to. That's a bad take.
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Tman2bard 02-Aug-19 02:31 PM
As many issues as I have with EGS, along with their precedents they've made I do hope they bounce back from this. This game is hecking cute and I only want it to succeed. Get some time off and recollect yourselves
Evey 02-Aug-19 02:32 PM
They've not been bragging about not needing patreon money. They've literally just stated "We don't rely on patreon support anymore but if you want to subscribe you can"
jennegatron 02-Aug-19 02:32 PM
Glad to see nothing has changed and you're all just having the same conversations you've been having for the last 24 hours.
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Ricethin 02-Aug-19 02:32 PM
I'd love to see the venn diagram of "people who are legitimately concerend about epic's business practices" and "people who are here for spicy takes at devs"
INfusion 02-Aug-19 02:33 PM
wasnt the chinese spyware thing debunked as just basic stuff all launchers use anyway, dont get me wrong I dont like epic launcher, but come up with actual stuff instead of conspiracy theories
unicron 02-Aug-19 02:33 PM
Bounce back from what? It's over, they're paid, they don't need us.
fawnline 02-Aug-19 02:33 PM
I can’t believe the amount of people who want to sit here and argue on a Discord server about video game devs making a decision that they didn’t like.
Runboy 02-Aug-19 02:34 PM
Am I the only one that came from that reddit post
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 02:34 PM
My mistake, when I said lack of features I meant I mostly see the old "EGS doesnt even have a shopping cart" thing, along with things like user reviews and forums. Theyre not valid deal breakers in my opinion because as long as you can easily buy a game and launch it from a store it has everything thats essential to play the game, everything else is fluff. Don't like the security on EGS? Fine, dont use it. Pricing/availability in your region sucky? Don't use it, you shouldn't if its a pain or its a risk or anything like that. However, little to none of those concerns can really be solved by these guys. I've seen so much "So you support EGS crunch/shady practices????" like, its pretty shocking. But I've also seen people say Epic doesnt support payment in their region so they can't get the game thru their store, which is a bummer but there's nothing to be done here about it, maybe see if Epic might have a workaround or something? As someone who lives in the Caribbean I've been used to using workarounds for digital stores/online stores for years now.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:35 PM
@fawnline ikr. is this the millennial entitlement the boomers whine about??
Surfings 02-Aug-19 02:35 PM
"No regional pricing? Don't use it" it's the only way to access ooblets at the moment
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Moontune 02-Aug-19 02:35 PM
@Dukkit is right. Most people are upset about the blog's condescending tone and the way they treated their own fans on discord. I want the developers to have as much money as they want, I want them to have as much time as possible to develop Ooblets. I've been a fan for years now. I even have the Epic store installed and bought games from it before. But the way they talked down to their patreon supporters (people who donated money to them and supported them on their journey!) and their potential customers was completely unnecessary. There was no reason to be this aggressive, it's frankly baffling. I follow them on twitter mostly and they have been so wholesome before, I'm honestly wondering what happened to make them react like this.
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Brown Beard 02-Aug-19 02:36 PM
Money makes people show their true colors.
MEULYN 02-Aug-19 02:36 PM
gonna be honest, Paragon was my favorite game, no one knows what it is now because epic focused funding on fortnite. now look where they are. you gotta do what you gotta do for success. think of how much more ooblets will have now. im sure they wouldn't make a sketchy decision like this if it wasn't the best option to complete their game (edited)
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 02:36 PM
I think most of the people in here are a good example of why they are acting like this. Also the reaction to every other game going on epic is a good reason why.
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Steak 02-Aug-19 02:36 PM
@Jpeg if only they had a way to self release that was DRM-free and could be purchased world wide without region locks
donslice 02-Aug-19 02:36 PM
Don't forget the fact that they waited until Aug 1 to tell people about the deal, which happens to be when Patreon charges... and the fact that "we don't need them". lol
Captain Puppers 02-Aug-19 02:37 PM
DaBomb 02-Aug-19 02:37 PM
@MEULYN BASED PARAGON FAN. DUDE, IT'S COMING BACK TO STEAM, LOOK UP PREDECESSOR
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Medea 02-Aug-19 02:37 PM
@donslice I believe that was shown to be incorrect. It gets charged depending on when you signed up so it's not all on the 1st
Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 02:38 PM
reading things through text always loses some of the original intentions and tone, but i can't see how that post sounded like it was talking down to supporters. i'm sure theres something there i missed. but it might also help that i didn't go into reading it assuming that's how it was gonna go. edit: not saying people with problems with it read it assuming anything (edited)
Obviouslydrunk 02-Aug-19 02:38 PM
Hi, first post here. I really don't have a big dog in this fight. I gave up the EGS because of the way they went about going up against steam. I think steam needs competition, I think it's good for the market, and yes if they had the basic features of every other game store I would probably have kept it on my desktop. But they didn't. Exclusives are not new, they've been around in many variations for the entirety of gaming, but you have to have a platform that competes with your competitors. I agree with most of the news I've been watching, This game taking the EGS deal isn't really the problem. It's that the EGS has burned many, many backers and customers by jumping in front of them with money. No one blames you for taking the sure-shot, but this is a sore subject right now. Honestly, y'all should be more concerned that the first I hear about this game is @perplamps honestly indignant attitude to the fans and supporters.
nubnub 02-Aug-19 02:39 PM
How dare the devs make jokes about how angry gamers will hate on EGS and this announcement . You know what im gonna do? Get angry about them for going to EGS, that'll show em who's right.
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TheRealHanBrolo 02-Aug-19 02:39 PM
How dare people not want to be talked to like they're 5 years old? 10 fucking minute slow mode? Cant be having actual discussion now can we. (edited)
donutnut1 02-Aug-19 02:39 PM
@Medea not a patreon of Ooblets myself but the things I have patreon'd to always charge me on the end of the month (unless it's not a monthly subscription based one), even if I've signed up like two days before
Buenolenardo 02-Aug-19 02:40 PM
Gamers aren't oppressed but they should be
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GammaGames 02-Aug-19 02:40 PM
@Moontune they expected it, and anyone with valid feedback was lumped in with the bad apples. To their credit, the feedback from the devs today has been great! It is more positive and less condescending "deal with it you butt hurt baby" sounding Man I wish we could have a bot that auto replied that non-issue about releasing it on the first of the month, the same time they have always released updates. @donslice
Raekai 02-Aug-19 02:40 PM
If I were smart, I'd come back in a week and voice my criticisms alongside the people who are long-time fans of Ooblets and want to support it instead of mucking with the trolls and sillypeeps on both sides. But I really don't have much better to do since I'm sick anyway. I'm just here to say that I love Ooblets, I'm happy that they have more funding, I'm bummed that it's not launching on Steam, and that I think this situation hasn't been handled well.
wideface 02-Aug-19 02:40 PM
I'm not an angry Gamer and I think the dev sounded very condescending in the blog post.
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47Ways 02-Aug-19 02:41 PM
@repulsor101 Let's see: Proton means I'm no longer tied to Windows to play games. Steam BPM provides me a very decent controller friendly UI to play games with my TV. Steam Controller Configuration API is a revolution in acessibility and means I can configure any game to support my controller and my own custom configs. (meanwhile, I had to use external tools to even be able to use my controller at all on Ashen, another EGS exclusive). Steam Guides allow me to instantly browse guides for the game I'm playing to look things up without needing to alt-tab and open my browser. If I want to go out of my room and chill out in another, I can continue my game session using Steam Remote play. I can even go to a friend's house and remote play from my PC too, across the internet. It's a wonderful feature. Other amazing thing that I can with this feature is have ONLINE COOP on games previously with local only, by allowing friends to access a remote play session and join up as player 2. This is a lot of things I use a lot and EGS just doesn't provide, and won't ever provide.
EldritchHorror 02-Aug-19 02:41 PM
Wow, this Discord went exactly the way I expected, several people having completely correct points but a few people latching onto a vocal minority in order to attack everyone when the dev was the one who messed up by disrespecting customers. From what I've seen, not only has the dev made a bad name for their game and company, their fans are doing just as good (meaning bad) job of showing respect to people who have legitimate issues. Edit : And the reactions to this show how childish the fans are being also lol. (edited)
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Silvie 02-Aug-19 02:41 PM
@DorkOrca I'd say for the china is evil point you'd be better asking them if they boycott all the other myriad of goods china make or just video games from china
Luwukian 02-Aug-19 02:42 PM
The devs should at least put it out on Xbox game pass like with outer worlds on day one to at least getting noticed as an indie team.
ShinyVegito 02-Aug-19 02:42 PM
came from reddit. this is straight up disrespect from the devs towards paying customers edit: and these fans dickriding the devs just confirms it (edited)
LordDon 02-Aug-19 02:43 PM
was it a slap in the face, ShinyVegito? We haven't heard that one yet
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arc 02-Aug-19 02:43 PM
@47Ways just FYI you can actually play local coop games over the internet without steam -- there is a service called parsec that provides similar functionality. it's very easy to set up and works very well
KarlGG 02-Aug-19 02:43 PM
So now people are joining this server just to yell and then leave?
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 02:43 PM
we should have a "what are you mad about the most" poll
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jacob 02-Aug-19 02:43 PM
youre not a paying customer yet. no one is. and this is "disrespect" from a near stranger to someone spending their time and love creating something nice that you absolutely do not have to take part in. lose the entitlement it will do wonders for you and your skincare routine (edited)
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Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 02:44 PM
This channel right now "Epic bad" 👶 🍼 "dev good" ☝ 👆 ⬆
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INfusion 02-Aug-19 02:44 PM
^
Ananym 02-Aug-19 02:44 PM
EGS is a meaningfully worse customer experience. Does it work? Sure. When you take a deal committing exclusively to that worse customer experience and your sentiment in the announcement is basically "suck it, it still works, you entitled immature toxic gamers, and if you took offense I'm talking directly to you", I'm not sure where you'd be expecting any goodwill to come from
Jacobim 02-Aug-19 02:44 PM
g*mers r babies
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agpino 02-Aug-19 02:44 PM
To be honest this stir up will result in more attention and probably more sales. So more power to them ❤
Terra 02-Aug-19 02:45 PM
can confirm am baby
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 02:45 PM
@Runboy, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Runboy said: Hey guys its me the ceo of walmart and I am here to say all the customers that made the company what it is today are * retards and should give me all their money
Surfings 02-Aug-19 02:46 PM
I personally will get the game at launch, however I understand the issues with the announcement, so those who choose to buy the game on steam one year down the line will recieve a product which has been patched and likely added upon. This is kinda similar to Hades, another EGS exclusive which in early access, when that game releases it will be complete and ready for steam purchasers after the exclusivity period ends.
Astorica 02-Aug-19 02:46 PM
Not all press or media attention is good and results in more sales, especially when the devs responses tends to be this way "All press is good press" is not true
MEULYN 02-Aug-19 02:46 PM
LISTEN UP im babey Dance_Kirby 3878_kirby_dancing owoKirbySucc (edited)
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CptPanduh 02-Aug-19 02:48 PM
K
ThatDancingClarinet 02-Aug-19 02:48 PM
* agressively plays clarinet *
Ghostflake 02-Aug-19 02:48 PM
I canceled my Patreon support because I guess they don't need my money anymore 💁
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JessLynnStudio 02-Aug-19 02:48 PM
@donslice Howdy! I've barely been following this but I just saw your comment. Perplamps said(on the Ooblets subreddit) that folks who wanted last months Patreon funds back could get a refund. They've since frozen the subreddit due to the sudden influx of traffic and lack of mods but yeah. Talk to Perplamps if you want your money back. Honestly, their Dev Logs usually drop on the first of the month so this announcement was right on schedule, even if the announcement subject matter felt out of the blue.
Obviouslydrunk 02-Aug-19 02:48 PM
Welp, good luck with this dumpster fire @perplamps, I'm going back to games that like me.
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jai 02-Aug-19 02:49 PM
Voices opinion - gets called baby, Don't voice opinion - devs take advantage of customers, hmmm
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 02:50 PM
@Ghostflake that's a perfectly reasonable reaction to us telling you we weren't financially reliant on patreon anymore
DaBomb 02-Aug-19 02:50 PM
@Aura Imagine needing to completely twist the argument of the majority of people that have a problem in order to try and give yourself the moral highground.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 02:50 PM
I'm not sure where the controversy is on the patreon stuff
Sym 02-Aug-19 02:50 PM
Honestly I haven't seen anyone with a yellow name actually understand peoples' valid concerns, and instead are being massive dicks to people
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Giorno 02-Aug-19 02:50 PM
honestly this whole thing wouldn't be such a problem if the devs didn't make that condescending blog post
Cherry 02-Aug-19 02:51 PM
Star belly role should be renamed to star baby
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GammaGames 02-Aug-19 02:51 PM
IMO Sterling's video is actually pretty good for what happened with the initial reaction that didn't understand that the announcement post was supposed to be a joke. It also had a bit about the discord responses, but obviously doesn't have any followup from today @Ghostflake I also canceled mine, I'll just put the money towards another developer that would appreciate my support. (edited)
Baloo 02-Aug-19 02:51 PM
The aggressive reactions via emoji is by far my favourite part of this
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rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 02:52 PM
the controversy on the patreon stuff is that they want you to be begging on your knees for their support so they can feel like they have some sort of control over you and your actions
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 02:52 PM
I'm also struggling to understand the patreon issue. We 've always tried to let people know when were in more financially secure situations that we don't absolutely rely on patreon money, and that nobody should feel obligated to contribute especially if was outside of their ability
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Cleinhun 02-Aug-19 02:52 PM
It's hard to understand people valid concerns when they don't appear to have any
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Venera 02-Aug-19 02:52 PM
The way I see it, it's not what you said, it's how you said it. That's what most of the issues can be attributed to, actually.
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 02:52 PM
We don't need patreon money anymore, but that doesn't mean we are ungrateful for the support we've had thus far.
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Spoonbiscuit 02-Aug-19 02:52 PM
Have you considered closing your patreon now that you don't need it? Seems reasonable to insist people keep their money now that you're not reliant on it right? Editing this since waiting 10mins is waiting too long: You're right, I'm not a patron. Could you tell me how that conversation went please? (edited)
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Caden 02-Aug-19 02:53 PM
I think the main issue is, with all due respect, is that SOME people ( not me ) think that you are shoving the fans aside because you don't need the money. (edited)
NewGeo 02-Aug-19 02:53 PM
Makes the announcement on the 1st
perplamps 02-Aug-19 02:53 PM
@Spoonbiscuit if you were a patron you would know Rebecca talked about that with our actual patrons
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nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 02:53 PM
We have considered it and the problem is that some people enjoy being part of the patreon, and it seems unfair to close it down because some people take issue with it (who could just unsubscribe)
Steak 02-Aug-19 02:53 PM
@perplamps what part of @Ghostflakes response says he wasnt financially capable of giving money to your game hes choosing to vote on another game that appreciates him
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Westbahnhof 02-Aug-19 02:54 PM
@nonplayercat I think the problem is that you didn't say anything about being thankful or such. So people just read a post that (I believe) came across like "we don't need you anymore, kthxbye". Playing devils advocate here, I didn't necessarily see it like that, but from the reactions, I believe that's how it came across
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arc 02-Aug-19 02:54 PM
one day many of you will look back on all the manufactured controversies you wasted your time on with nothing but regret. of course i have to make sure to say that i'm not saying everyone who has an issue with EGS is being dramatic for no reason. but a LOT of people are right now
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 02:54 PM
@Jacobim, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Jacobim said: oob: "Ok babies don't get mad but we're going to a different company" the babies: "Oh ** naw, take this!!" collectively peep and poop their dipes "is this what a baby would do??????"
Raekai 02-Aug-19 02:54 PM
@Sym I used to have a yellow name and I tried to hear everyone out. Lol. (Oops. Didn't mean to spam.) The Patreon issue is really small. @perplamps has offered refunds. (edited)
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 02:54 PM
@Westbahnhof yes and that's the problem with reading screen caps single messages within a larger conversation taken out of context
Ananym 02-Aug-19 02:54 PM
Accepting free money. Note: absolutely no obligations involved whatsoever. No matter how explicit it is, you're still setting up certain expectations when you take people's money.
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 02:55 PM
@Raekai i think your starbelly got revoked for spamming
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DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 02:55 PM
The ooblets patreon entitles patrons to nothing - they're making a willing donation to a team they support, and the reciprocation for that is behind the scenes development info, not control over the financial direction of the game
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LordDon 02-Aug-19 02:55 PM
To people complaining about them shutting down reddit: If you've spent more than 10 minutes here and read some of the messages, even with the 10 minute delay the comments have been frequent and outrageous. Now imagine trying to manage this place AND reddit, where they have less control. The devs don't owe the larger internet hate hose their time and attention.
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 02:55 PM
@Westbahnhof but she did say how thankful she was to actual patrons, of which the people complaining about patreon are clearly not a part of
nubnub 02-Aug-19 02:55 PM
Reddit brigade assemble! We will not be oppressed, we will not go quietly into the night! For too long we have had to download other clients than our lord and savior Gabens ultimate platform. We have spent well OVER 5 minutes researching this game and we will not give our dollars to this offense against our beliefs. The devs have shown that they value money above all else. Who are they to take money on pure greed for putting in thousands and thousands of hours of time with almost no return, while I have spent 5 minutes being outraged as a paying customer. How dare you call me a baby for this, this just isn't fair or unbiased like I am!
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wideface 02-Aug-19 02:56 PM
It seems people on this discord channel are going to make fun of whatever I say here. I still think it's good for you to have chosen EGS, I hope it works out. But the way it was announced couldn't have been more disappointing. Cue the snarky reaction emojis
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Reldio 02-Aug-19 02:56 PM
I can't believe Jim Sterling made a video on this situation tbh
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Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 02:56 PM
I have to agree with @Westbahnhof. Also people are still sour from the shenmu debacle. So the "devs not being thankful" is still very present on peoples mind
seemaq 02-Aug-19 02:56 PM
there were like 30 posts on reddit max, how can you not moderate it (edited)
donslice 02-Aug-19 02:56 PM
@Reldio EGS is a hot topic. And when something was handled as ham-fisted as this was... well..
perplamps 02-Aug-19 02:57 PM
but we're absolutely not thankful to people coming in from reddit who've never heard of ooblets and are acting offended on behalf of actual patrons (edited)
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 02:58 PM
@Buenolenardo, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Buenolenardo said: I hate how toxic some of you are, I doubt you would ever give this much * to a * builder or barista for using a certain brand of milk. How can yall be so twisted
Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 02:58 PM
as a supporter, i would personally be very disappointed if the patreon shut down and i couldn't read devlogs anymore. its inspiring to hear about their work for my own projects at home
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Ricethin 02-Aug-19 02:59 PM
I want to point out that developers rely on a 0.4-3.0% conversion - meaning 97% of people who see our games won't buy them anyway. So, trying to put devs in a position where they 'need' you is a really weird abusive thing to do.
jacob 02-Aug-19 02:59 PM
it's not "taking" people's money if you are the one to donate it a gift does not come with any terms and conditions or it would not be a gift the fact that these people aren't patrons to begin with is amusing enough in its own right, but more importantly i've noticed people continually try to use money -- the patreon and one bold fool who used the phrase "paying customer" to a game that's not available for sale -- as a means of leverage or guilt towards the devs to feel that they are indeed owed something you can't just vaguely use the idea of "some people somewhere supported the project and therefore money is involved and you should do as id like you to do because customers are right and you earning a living is secondary to my opinion on one free game store versus another" (edited)
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 02:59 PM
@Aura what's your studio?
Scruffo 02-Aug-19 03:00 PM
A made up one maybe
perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:00 PM
and the all gamers thing has been discussed to death, you all know what the toxic gamers(tm) reference was referring to, and it wasn't people who play games
MEULYN 02-Aug-19 03:00 PM
Stop with the clown emojis please, its not helpful constructive or funny anymore Love_In_The_Air it's a little disheartening. This is an opportunity for those who don't know or understand and are hurt to come and learn, rude reactions only make people who are upset even more upset! love Disabling reactions would make the 10 min slow mode unbearable.. lol (edited)
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Astorica 02-Aug-19 03:00 PM
What are your plans with future games after the EGS money runs out and Ooblets has run it's course? Will they also be exclusives?
Cherry 02-Aug-19 03:01 PM
Or just disable reactions??
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никто 02-Aug-19 03:01 PM
theyre already disabled for most of us
Syn 02-Aug-19 03:01 PM
Exclusivity exists in many places in this industry and yet I wonder why some people are getting so angry about this despite not being supporters (who knew what they would receive in return for being a patron) or knowing anything about this game before the most recent blog post.
GoGoGooey! 02-Aug-19 03:02 PM
Who else is gonna pirate this game? https://youtu.be/i8ju_10NkGY (edited)
Sing along to the Songs of Lazy Town! Subscribe to the Lazy Town YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNuLcjVa3vCeHFyUeTKtBlA?sub_confirmation=1...
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rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 03:02 PM
this is the dark side of crowdfunding/direct support. people feel like they can control you even if they would never admit that to themselves or others
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GammaGames 02-Aug-19 03:02 PM
My patreon concerns are because I was helping support a project I believed in, and the posts always had a thanks to the general community. Yesterday the way it was worded made it sound like it was no longer appreciated. I don't expect anything from patreon, but I didn't expect you to outright say you didn't need us anymore. Instead of "the patreon is there, we don't need it" (and by extension, you), a better way to say it would be "we have funding that will help keep as working as we finish the game, but we still appreciate your support on patreon." Anything more indicitive of your appreciation, the original comment had none of that (edited)
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 03:02 PM
@CleverCurls, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@CleverCurls said: So im not a patreon cause imma broke *** student, but ive been following the game for a little while now. Im super excited for the team for be getting money and have less worries/burdens, and as of now i do still plan on trying out the game. Although- i do agree with many that the initial blog post came off almost... Toooooo tongue in cheek for me.
Sym 02-Aug-19 03:02 PM
Yeah, please just disable reactions entirely if you're gonna disable them for people who aren't star baby, as it makes reactions not great Aaaanyway, @perplamps, do you have an idea of what the price will be yet? some sort of ballpark at least?
Venera 02-Aug-19 03:02 PM
Disabling reactions definitely feels like the most fair approach since the stage is very much stacked against anybody with an opposing opinion when it comes to reacts
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:02 PM
@CleverCurls appreciate the feedback, and I get it
Spoonbiscuit 02-Aug-19 03:02 PM
> they're making a willing donation to a team they support, and the reciprocation for that is behind the scenes development info, not control over the financial direction of the game But wouldn't it be nicer to just give everyone that behind the scenes insight now that there is no requirement to incentivise financial support? > people coming in from reddit who've never heard of ooblets To be clear, I don't use reddit, heard about this in PCgamer today after recognising the game title as something that had piqued my interest from a year or so back at an E3 conference or something. I wasn't in this discord channel, nor did I follow a twitter or patreon, because at the time I simply saw a trailer and thought "that game looks worth keeping an eye on, I'll check it out when it's done" I don't think it's very constructive to assume that everyone turning up fresh is new and out for blood. > and the all gamers thing has been discussed to death, you all know what the toxic gamers(tm) reference was referring to You have to understand that someone like me reading that PCgamer article this morning where you were quoted saying that absolutely did not understand that you were referring to a specific subset. You didn't even put the term in air quotes. Do you at least plan to put out an new blog update trying to explain some of the misunderstandings that have occurred?
DJF1107 02-Aug-19 03:02 PM
hi
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Viperishrhyme5 02-Aug-19 03:02 PM
One thing I just disliked was how Epic toted that having the larger cut meant devs could mark there game as cheaper so the savings get passed along to the consumer yet I have not seen even one game below the average price points on EGS then what's it been on other platforms.
Cackles 02-Aug-19 03:03 PM
I agree with @wideface. Personally, I wasn’t that interested in the controversy with EGS because I don’t really keep up with that. I would have happily downloaded EGS and supported the game via it! The tone of the Dev Log just felt quite patronising. “I know it’s asking a lot but I believe in you and your ability to download a free thing and create a user account” what? I know it was followed up by (if you haven’t done so already to play Fortnite which I KNOW YOU HAVE) so I can see the humorous angle, but it doesn’t land for me personally. I am happy for the devs that they landed a contract that allows them to finish the game the best way they can! I completely understand why they would do so, and see no problem with it! Just a shame is came out the way it did, it was unnecessary and easy to avoid a lot of the issues spoken about on discord. My two cents nobody asked for, but I think quite a few people who feel the same way I do are getting lumped in with “OH HOW DARE YOU EEEEHHHH” which just isn’t the case. Go for it. Do your thing. Perhaps just phrase it kinder without pats on the head for people who aren’t 5. Oops. See more people writing the same stuff I basically did! Sorry for the repeat x (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:03 PM
@Sym likely the $20-30 range but that is not a promise
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 03:03 PM
@アレクサンドラ, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@アレクサンドラ said: Well, Epic set them up with cash and they made it clear they don't care about the supporters they have garnered. But the real fun will be when they need to make a second game and their studio reputation is smeared with ****. Will Epic bail you guys out a second time?
Westbahnhof 02-Aug-19 03:04 PM
@perplamps In response to your answer to me like 10 mins ago: well yeah, I was just attempting to explain how I think some people are interpreting the patreon screenshot. I'm still kinda annoyed that you (or she?) said that people who thought the initial blog post was rude probably weren't interested in buying the game anyway. Because I thought so, and I still want to buy your game. Like you think I'm lying or something. I get that it was probably a heated comment while everything was coming to a boil, but I just want to reiterate that having a different opinion (or a dislike of a certain store) doesn't mean I don't wish you great success and want to enjoy your product. That one just stung. And I know you have already heard something this from others I guess, so... sorry for repeating it in my own words.
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:04 PM
@GammaGames are you a patron though? I'm confused... because rebecca's post there definitely was thankful
Fawful 02-Aug-19 03:04 PM
Viper, I remember Metro and Division 2 being cheaper than normal on Epic
Breadman 02-Aug-19 03:04 PM
regardless of whether or not you're an indie dev or a big corp, you're trying to make money by selling a product. the mindset of anyone trying to make money is to seem inviting to the consumer so they WANT to support you, as well as attract potential customers. By having this rude style of handling PR, you're dissuading potential customers and clients who might want to work with or for you in the future.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:05 PM
@Westbahnhof understood, but i think you can tell the vast majority of the hate train had never heard of ooblets until yesterday/today
Sire 02-Aug-19 03:05 PM
@Fawful That's actually dependent on your region, places like India have to pay substantially more on Epic.
Runboy 02-Aug-19 03:05 PM
these people's aditude to an opposing opinion makes yandere dev seem like a saint
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Pillow 02-Aug-19 03:05 PM
Regional pricing doesn't exist on EGS
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 03:06 PM
@Spoonbiscuit 1) no, their info / dev cycle their decision 2) the large majority are, in fact, new, and have been very vocal about how they didn't want to support the game in the first place - those with concerns have been addressed regardless 3) you're on the internet, if you don't understand how toxic the online gaming community is towards devs who don't follow their every word idk what to tell you Also, greentexting kinda outs you as a 4chan user soo
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 03:06 PM
The developers already expressed neutrality or a disinterest to learn about the regional pricing in EGS, bringing it up again won't help with a brickwall. @Sire
Mustafa Fasula 02-Aug-19 03:06 PM
I liked the blog it was funny they shouldn't apology and there is regional pricing on the Epic games store
hubglacier 02-Aug-19 03:06 PM
@perplamps @nonplayercat I wanted to say that (1) totally happy for you getting the Epic deal, it's great! Love that you don't need to rely on Patreon anymore. I create content online and, for a long time, heavily relied on my own Patreon funds. It can be absolutely terrifying surviving on an unstable form of payment. As a former patron of Ooblets, I really just think the tone of all your messaging has been wayyy too negative and rage-baiting. What's worse, you have hundreds of people telling you this and you refuse to believe you've spoken to the community in any wrong way. The blog post, and some of the messages in this discord have been so mean. I can understand wanting to "get ahead" of the controversy, but you honestly set everyone up to attack with the tone of the blog.
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CptPanduh 02-Aug-19 03:06 PM
@perplamps unwarranted opinion - You guys need some serious PR right now, regardless of the situation, my suggestion would be to stay radio silent for 3 or 4 days to let the heat blow off, then write another blog post explaining the previous one. I’m not here to rail against you or here to cheer you on, I’m just a fly on the wall watching this unfold. You’re in reaction mode and may say something in the heat of the moment you regret, or something that will make the situation worse. Take a few days off, assess the situation when you come back, and approach it with a statement
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wideface 02-Aug-19 03:06 PM
@Cackles thanks, friend shrumboyay
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23k 02-Aug-19 03:07 PM
where is the malaysian prince who can afford a regular 10$ patreon monthy fee but won't have enough money to buy the game
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:07 PM
@Spoonbiscuit as for how we end up structuring or using the patreon, that's a question for actual patrons
Raekai 02-Aug-19 03:08 PM
They are working on a FAQ right now. (And don't worry. It says that all entitled g*mers get a free DRM-free copy. Trust me. My uncle works for Nintendo. And it also says I get Starbelly back. 👀) (edited)
Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 03:08 PM
@Spoonbiscuit if you sign up for their mailing list they send out most of their devlog stuff too now. for free
Ananym 02-Aug-19 03:09 PM
Does not being engaged with the "community" mean you weren't genuinely interested? I sure as heck hadn't looked into the game besides reviewing the steam page once months ago and being pretty interested in seeing how it ended up. But, y'know. Can't say much of that is left after such a dismissive announcement. And heck, I already use EGS. Just not happily, it's a pain.
Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 03:09 PM
@Raekai Oh cool, when is the GOG release? Thats how you get it DRM-Free right? (edited)
Gomez 02-Aug-19 03:10 PM
I'm sorry you guys are goin through this, I don't get it , if a copy of the game isn't promised in the tier list of the patreon then nobody has anything to complain about, it really shows these entitled people have never made a game, they don't know the financial stress the gamble especially if it's your first game, not everyone was cut out for PR and I ain't gonna blame you for the response it was blunt but not rude, also good on you for the epic games store deal, it's not easy being a 2 person team to have that help, people don't know or care about how much work and money it takes to make a game, I wish you guys the best, I can't wait for me and my gf to play it, I'd take a break from this toxic pool of entitlement btw for like a day or two.
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:10 PM
@hubglacier I get that, and I think my post unintentionally made people feel like i was lumping them in with a very toxic bunch. it's hard now to make the distinction, though, when the toxic bunch is knocking down the doors
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SatansSlurpee 02-Aug-19 03:10 PM
stop saying entitled just because someone has an opinion
Reldio 02-Aug-19 03:11 PM
These reactions are so baby gamer :^)
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SKULLCRUSHERs1d 02-Aug-19 03:11 PM
If anything it is all of your faults for gambling on a patron funded game.
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KarlGG 02-Aug-19 03:11 PM
This isn't just an opinion, it's entitlement.
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Sam™ 02-Aug-19 03:11 PM
More like oofblets
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MEULYN 02-Aug-19 03:12 PM
more like booblets AkatsukiGasm
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47Ways 02-Aug-19 03:12 PM
@perplamps will the game still be available on the Play Anywhere program?
Snagglewolf 02-Aug-19 03:13 PM
K thanks bye
SyntheticTeapot 02-Aug-19 03:13 PM
Yea THAT'S the hate - not the people who are like "I'm kinda disappointed" or "I have concerns about EGS and security" (edited)
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Goodra 02-Aug-19 03:13 PM
I've actually been a huge fan of Double Fine games since before even playing psychonauts, and i've bought most of their games, but I wont be buying anything on Epic Games Store since i don't trust them with my CC info
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Sanci 02-Aug-19 03:13 PM
@Blackyscorpio cringe
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 03:14 PM
I'm anti-egs but this is just too much
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Spoonbiscuit 02-Aug-19 03:14 PM
@DorkOrca > Also, greentexting kinda outs you as a 4chan user soo Greentexting? I'm using discord's new quote formatting @Zeraphines Ah, good to know, guess I'll sign up for that. Presumably there's not way of seeing backdated stuff without becoming a patron though? @perplamps And your thoughts on posting an blog update to try and clear the deluge of misunderstandings that your wider audience currently has with your stance on things?
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dreams 02-Aug-19 03:14 PM
Dang, I'm trying my best to post the context to all of these out of context screencaps going around, but of course I'm just being labeled a biased shill lol. But it bothers me that people are trying to read the most negative way possible each message from perp and npc 😦 (edited)
Vajra 02-Aug-19 03:15 PM
@DorkOrca it may be an option to spoof a credit card but it's a TERRIBLE option. Like if i need money, I can either work or rob a bank, right? Those are both options, but one is clearly worse and more risky than the other
jacob 02-Aug-19 03:15 PM
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 03:16 PM
@DJF1107, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@DJF1107 said: people make it sound like egs is a one way gate to * like holy *. its a free launcher grow up. @perplamps may the money make the games look cooler 😃
Kells 02-Aug-19 03:16 PM
Well they are two humans and not a large corp with a call center so it makes sense their repsonses are also human with human energy?
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nubnub 02-Aug-19 03:16 PM
The thing is, by default almost every exclusive announcement for EGS has been met with hatred and brigading. Because they decided to joke about this people are calling it rage baiting and demeaning to the user base. This would have happened either way. If you took special offense to this it's possible you might have been prone to raging about it in the first place, if you didn't you probably realized the post wasn't aimed at you and was a joke. But how much of a joke is it when it becomes reality?
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Venera 02-Aug-19 03:17 PM
I lowkey wish I could unsee the reactions from both sides. Despite not liking EGS that was never my issue here I can wait for exclusivity to end or for the EGS to get to the point where I'm comfy using it, it was the dev response that has me bummed abt this whole thing.
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Tenser 02-Aug-19 03:17 PM
telling your potential customers that you no longer require them is not a human response.
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hanshotfirst21 02-Aug-19 03:17 PM
@Blackyscorpio is correct. this is a historical event and matters a lot. I for one can't wait to see how the high school history books portray the ooblets 2019 epic store deal.
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:18 PM
@Spoonbiscuit posting an update trying to clarify stuff isn't a bad idea, but it would also likely just reignite the issue, especially since the folks who have made up their minds will definitely not be swayed by any sort of discussion
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crabz 02-Aug-19 03:18 PM
@Venera if you wait it out then you just incentivise more developers to take the epic money because they know they can get "gauranteed sales" from epic and steam revenue
Cruduxy 02-Aug-19 03:18 PM
@perplamps if Hello games could any other dev can
DaBomb 02-Aug-19 03:19 PM
Can you at least lower the time to a more reasonable number? There's not that much toxicity\ anymore, it's mostly just discussion.
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nxwtypx 02-Aug-19 03:19 PM
How would you all rank EGS among current human rights abuses going on?
hubglacier 02-Aug-19 03:19 PM
@perplamps thanks for acknowledging. If i can give my personal opinion on handling this. You guys need to step away for awhile. Staying present and calling people "toxic trolls" will do nothing but fan the flames. i would suggest apologizing for the tone of the blog post and stepping away for a few days. (this comes from a place of handling controversial issues with my own personal content many moons ago)
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Scruffo 02-Aug-19 03:20 PM
@hubglacier No
Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 03:20 PM
As I said, i think its best to swallow your pride, and just go dark from public forums from a bit until things calm down. I hate seeing devs taking hits for financial decisions needed to support the art.
Runboy 02-Aug-19 03:20 PM
Hey I just thought isnt it a bit scummy how they made the epic games announcement august first? the time when patreons are charged monthly? what? it seems like a scummy move (edited)
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KarlGG 02-Aug-19 03:21 PM
The first time? (edited)
MikeyMouse 02-Aug-19 03:22 PM
@Runboy There is reasoning for that, that has already been clarified, Also they offered refunds, my issues is how they responded to concerns that were fairly reasonable and cleared their subreddit
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 03:22 PM
@Vajra creating a throwaway credit card with a tenured company for no fees is not the same thing as robbing a bank lmao
MEULYN 02-Aug-19 03:22 PM
They had already discussed it with their patrons, I'm sure. Only patrons can speak for patrons though. yknow? @Runboy Also they dont promote their patreon anymore so its not like they are being greedy with moneys. (edited)
Em 02-Aug-19 03:22 PM
epic is paying them wayyyy more than patreon ever would so they'd have no reason to try and squeeze a little more out
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Raekai 02-Aug-19 03:22 PM
Okay, wow. I'm really starting to get it, @perplamps. There are so many repeat issues posted in here again and again that have gotten multiple official answers. Madness! At the very least, I'm sorry that people don't know how to use Search. Lol. 🤷‍♂️ Patreon should be a non-issue at this point. (edited)
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I'mMr.Joker 02-Aug-19 03:22 PM
I'll give a (somewhat) different perspective: I don't dislike the EGS store itself. Nor do I have any complaints about it. However I still hate how they're doing exclusivity and the way their going about it. I want stores to be in competition by making the best launcher available and compete that way. Look at GOG.com, I've bought tons of games on GOG despite using primarily Steam, even on games that are on both platforms. I bought Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines on GOG because it automatically came with the unofficial patch, something Steam didn't have. Hence making it the best place to buy that game, despite, again, using Steam primarily. That's how competition should be, in my eyes. Not barring players from buying games on their preferred platform but making it the best place to buy that or those games. If Epic wants me to use it, then they should have to earn it so, like GOG has.
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 03:24 PM
@Sanci, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Sanci said: i love how the conversation has actually been pretty fun, and alright for a while here, and then every 5 mins there comes some random edgelord, who has been drooling on his keyboard for 10 mins, while waiting for his chat function to be activated, to say some edgy **** that adds nothing to the convo
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TheCalmBefore 02-Aug-19 03:24 PM
people will pay more for games that make their steam numbers go up. You can make the best store in the world but you can't code up the sunk cost people have
Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 03:24 PM
@I'mMr.Joker i read that the main reason they're doing exclusives is to try and change the pay ratio dynamic that steam standardized. they take a 30% cut of sales from devs and for small time indies that can be unsustainable. i do agree that their method is heavy handed, but sometimes that's the way it has to be to change a dynamic
Mint 02-Aug-19 03:24 PM
Patreon supporters are being refunded in full?
perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:24 PM
sad I have to pin this, but on the subject of us "scamming people by announcing on the 1st": - we make all our devlogs on the 1st of each month - why would we want to scam our core audience? - why would we ever scam folks for the amount we're getting on patreon, given that we've just said we're no longer relying on patreon for development funding - I've offered refunds to anyone who wanted them, but nobody has taken me up on that so far - you're letting yourself be intentionally riled up over conspiracy theories designed to fuel the hate mob
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Cherry 02-Aug-19 03:24 PM
@I'mMr.Joker I'm on this stance but am more upset over the tone of the blog post and calling people who are vocal about this stuff entitled baby gamers. Discord does the same with trying to get partner status aka Cr1tikal's video
perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:24 PM
Pinned a message.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 03:25 PM
@Empire of Japan, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Empire of Japan said: Can someone explain to me why they would ever pay money for this piece of **** game?
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Astorica 02-Aug-19 03:25 PM
@perplamps How do you think future game releases will go? The responses are not looking that great, and is mainly why people are upset from what I can see. (Ignoring the obvious toxic troll bait) In the future this isn't going to help sales, or drive hype for games from a fanbase, since a lot of people are now skeptical of supporting devs that don't seem to appreciate them/come off as condescending, with full context or not Is EGS going to keep paying you for each game you make now, so you don't have to rely on sales money? Doesn't that kind of just mean you owe EGS the game, instead of making it for a fanbase that can grow exponentially had this been handled differently? (edited)
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 03:25 PM
the fact that people are coming in here with pepe reacts says all you need to know
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:25 PM
@Mint you let me know how much you'd like refunded
Vajra 02-Aug-19 03:25 PM
@DorkOrca you said it was an option, so i'm pointing out why it's a bad option. No, it's not the same magnitude, but it's still an apt example. @Scruffo the heck? you saying that perp shouldn' try to relax or what? that's just defending someone blindly, not stepping away means perp gets more and more stressed as the bad apples are dealt with Honeslty, the Star Bellies I'm seeing talk FEEL like they're just saying things to make sure that "MUH OOBLETS" isn't completely tarnished and hated on launch...like yeah i want to like Ooblets, but the poor PR is making me not even want to try it (edited)
Flutterawesome 02-Aug-19 03:26 PM
steam didn't standardize anything. that was standardized far before steam, and infact is/was a better split than physical retailers. also @perplamps since the shenmue debacle, what you did is just a REALLY bad look
Kells 02-Aug-19 03:26 PM
Please keep in mind if you are here in good faith that this two person team is really overwhelmed right now with a lot of people who are not here in good faith. (like "wrong side of history" bro seen above). I'm so excited yall got funding, the game that comes out of it will be even better than it would have been before! (I say this as a dev who recently received funding, and it changed the entire scope of what our game could be!)
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:27 PM
@Flutterawesome if you have a point to make, please try to make it something I can respond to in some way. I don't know what you're asking of me, so why would you @ me
Venera 02-Aug-19 03:27 PM
@rhymenoceros you do know the vast majority of us can't use reacts right? That people who were already here with the roles are the ones using pepe reacts, right?
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SKULLCRUSHERs1d 02-Aug-19 03:28 PM
You seem to be missing the point that even if the EGS was on the same level as Steam it still wouldn't justify this. Exclusivity isn't good for the consumer and makes them less likely to purchase a game. Yeah, spider man on PS4 looks cool but I won't run out and buy a PS4 to play it. Yes, EGS is free, but why should I need to jump through an extra hoop just to play one game? Also, it is a slap in the face to the people who back these types of games. If you had valid reasons for doing this fine, but don't word your response in a way that insults the rightfully angry people.
jacob 02-Aug-19 03:28 PM
that only changed within the last half hour or so @Venera
seemaq 02-Aug-19 03:30 PM
can we get it down to at least 5m
LordDon 02-Aug-19 03:30 PM
@SKULLCRUSHERs1d I got my "slap in the face" bingo square. Thanks man. I feel like people who make comments like yours likely didn't know about this game before today and weren't going to buy the game anyway and are just here to 💩 on anyone going exclusive on EGS.
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Terra 02-Aug-19 03:31 PM
that pin now just seems to say why would we scam you for your insignificant amount of money now that we have epic. you want to do cool things right doesn't every little bit help?
crabz 02-Aug-19 03:32 PM
Why does having an opinion about how exclusivity is bad immediately make you not a fan of ooblets?
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Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 03:33 PM
Apparently we've all come from reddit and never heard of the game until yesterday @crabz
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jai 02-Aug-19 03:33 PM
@perplamps TBH if you really wanted to address the patreon donation refund issue, there should be a public post on offering them. Right now it seems like a "hopefully no one asks for a refund" mentality because some people haven't been made aware that this is an option
никто 02-Aug-19 03:34 PM
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AmboBean 02-Aug-19 03:34 PM
Why does wanting to support them still after making a business deal make you a shill?
grimbus 02-Aug-19 03:36 PM
I saw a short video about this game like, a year or more ago. I don't really play video games anymore, and I don't have any idea about the steam V. S epic game store debate, but the developer responses to folks has been super unprofessional. Dismissing anyone who takes issue with their handling of this issue is not very mature.
Ananym 02-Aug-19 03:36 PM
Same reason being disappointed in such a righteous and dismissive post makes you a redditor who's never seen the game before
hmaon 02-Aug-19 03:36 PM
I don't think the post is angry and a lot of people actually like it.
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Flutterawesome 02-Aug-19 03:36 PM
well perplamps not every point needs to be responded to my dude, not every point made has to be a question. Sometimes when someone makes a point, you just accept the point they make. also yeah can we get this down to 5 minutes? 10 minute delay is ridiculous
MikeyMouse 02-Aug-19 03:36 PM
I don't care that the game is on epic at all, I have games that I loved on epic, but I respect the Devs that didn't be rude to their followers when they were upset for a reason
Tenser 02-Aug-19 03:36 PM
People would rather cast blame at the other party before considering their own faults
potacho 02-Aug-19 03:37 PM
you'd think with that new epic money they'd be able to hire a decent PR company
Mint 02-Aug-19 03:37 PM
@nonplayercat should have written the blog post it would have been much better received
Vajra 02-Aug-19 03:37 PM
honestly, I talked with perplamps about possibly giving the EGS launch a try, but i don't think I will now. Perp, sorry, but i will not be buying ooblets, at least not in the foreseeable future. When i do (and i will, you mark my words, the game is still looking good!), it'll be on steam, after a hefty price drop or sale. I was calm with you before in a DM, but seeing a multitude of responses from you makes me realize that EGS never is and never will be secure, safe, or good in any sense, let alone your attitude towards fans and critics alike. My apologies it has come to this. (edited)
Astorica 02-Aug-19 03:38 PM
@perplamps How do you think future game releases will go? The responses are not looking that great, and is mainly why people are upset from what I can see. (Ignoring the obvious toxic troll bait) In the future this isn't going to help sales, or drive hype for games from a fanbase, since a lot of people are now skeptical of supporting devs that don't seem to appreciate them/come off as condescending, with full context or not Is EGS going to keep paying you for each game you make now, so you don't have to rely on sales money? Doesn't that kind of just mean you owe EGS the game, instead of making it for a fanbase that can grow exponentially had this been handled differently? Edit: I am not here from Reddit, been here for years. Sad to see you just assume that's where I came from (edited)
DJF1107 02-Aug-19 03:38 PM
TIL devs cant be lighthearted cuz ppl offend too easy
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Raekai 02-Aug-19 03:38 PM
I should've written the blog post. Then everyone could have just been really confused. Like, who tf is this guy? Boom. No bad press. 😉
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:39 PM
@Astorica I think folks will continue to buy the games they want and I can't tell the future.
Sire 02-Aug-19 03:39 PM
It's crazy how people don't understand that, once you get that giant sack of Epic money you're a big timer now, and financial mind-set changes. Treating your potential consumer-base with disdain is a must, that's capitalism folks! Plus, after this launch the devs could focus on fixing climate change rather than making unimportant video games.
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:39 PM
@Astorica the world does exist outside of reddit, thankfully
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nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 03:39 PM
@Mint you're feeding my ego here 😉 (But in seriousness I stand behind what was written and it wouldn't have been posted if we didn't both think it was correct)
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Osteos 02-Aug-19 03:39 PM
@perplamps How much did Epic pay you guys as part of this deal? Not trying to troll, genuinely curious, as I've been wondering exactly how long Epic can continue to keep up this kind of business strategy. This can't be a cheap strategy after all Edit 1. Fair enough, thanks for the response (edited)
DaBomb 02-Aug-19 03:40 PM
I love how the Ooblet supporters complain about trolls attacking the game, when there are people on the other side doing the same exact thing calling everyone, even those whom are able to talk rationally and without aggression, babies, entitled, immature, etc
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:40 PM
@Osteos can't share that kind of thing due to NDA
vinyl sprakle 02-Aug-19 03:40 PM
i dunno why the blogpost had to be so condescending, y'know? a lot of people are understanding about going EGS exclusive for the money, especially for a tiny indie dev team. it would have gone completely different if the blogpost was just them saying they went with epic because they offered them money to help with development of the game and to take some burden off of their shoulders in exchange for exclusivity imo. a lot of the anger and hate isn't about the exclusivity deal, it's about how it was handled and what was said, y'know? (edited)
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 03:40 PM
b o t h s i d e s
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Rhonlore 02-Aug-19 03:41 PM
It's not even condescending! Thats the thing! It's light hearted, funny, and takes a jab at exactly the people who showed up in this Discord to be upset! It was perfect.
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LordDon 02-Aug-19 03:41 PM
@DaBomb spending a couple hours here, I can admit there are real supporters of the game with genuine beefs. If you've been following the game for any amount of time, I don't understand how you can feel like their blogpost was different in tone from any of the other blogposts. But I will accept there are longtime followers and supporters of the game that have real beefs and aren't just trolling. But man there are a lot of trolls stopping by.
Scruffo 02-Aug-19 03:42 PM
No, being funny and goofy means being condescending. And there's a 100% chance they definitely read any of the other blog posts
jaegerbombs 02-Aug-19 03:42 PM
The blog post was so condescending because the devs just got cut the biggest check of their lives. They literally don't have to care about what you think or say anymore
perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:42 PM
@vinyl sprakle really wasn't intended to be condescending. I feel like the post said all those other things you mentioned, but I understand that the jokes and poking some fun at people who get really upset about epic could make the reader think I was applying that to everyone, and that wasn't my intention
Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 03:42 PM
@vinyl sprakle Stop in the name of the law you bandit! You are under arrest for using facts. There is no space for such things in this server. You are ether part of g a m e r hate mob, or against them. To the dungeon with you
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tengblad 02-Aug-19 03:43 PM
I'm not sure how helpful it is to say "Well, I don't think the post came off as angry". It seems like a lot of people did. @LordDon I've been following the game for ages but never read a single devblog post, but the Epic deal was a big deal so I was interested in checking that post out. Not everyone comes to that post with the same background and context, y'know?
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Evey 02-Aug-19 03:43 PM
God this has really just turned into people generalising a perceived "other side" into being the one generalising "their side" now
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girlthulu 02-Aug-19 03:43 PM
I don't think this channel is a good idea. It's just led to fighting between the fans and attacks on the devs. I don't own this server, but I would recommend that this channel is closed and discussion of this topic on the server limited. People with actual questions can email. I honestly don't think this place is a conductive environment for anyone. (edited)
Cherry 02-Aug-19 03:43 PM
@jaegerbombs they don't have to care since epic already paid for the copies they thought they were going to sell!
Em 02-Aug-19 03:43 PM
But we showed up in the discord because the subreddit said to come here to complain?
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Mr. Pinky 02-Aug-19 03:44 PM
@girlthulu that would definitely just fuel the censorship angle of the argument
Terra 02-Aug-19 03:44 PM
silencing is never the solution
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:45 PM
Just to reiterate, if you'd like to make sure I read your questions, concerns, or feelings, or you'd actually like to hear a response or participate in a calm discussion, please email me at perplamps@gmail.com and I'll try to respond as quickly as I can
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Pinned a message.
INfusion 02-Aug-19 03:45 PM
big fat mood (edited)
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 03:45 PM
Silencing is sometimes the solution
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KarlGG 02-Aug-19 03:46 PM
"reddit was locked down because of hate-spewing, so we had to go somewhere else to spew hate."
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Flutterawesome 02-Aug-19 03:46 PM
I generally don't like EGS. I don't like their anticonsumer business practices and their transparent attempt at trying to create Monopoly. However I do absolutely think indie devs should be on epic and take exclusive deals as they actually need the better revenue split. So in this regard I frankly don't care about ooblets going epic exclusive, however the tone of the blog post was just condescending. ill look into the game and see if it's something for me, but realistically likely not. But hey it likely won't get the treatment I give other EGS exclusive games Also when is silencing the solution? Well when there is a team of enemy mages that you need to disable of course.
Astorica 02-Aug-19 03:48 PM
@perplamps I'm not from Reddit, not sure if you can check my join date on Discord, but I've been here for years and have bought merch, went to PAX to try the game, been following blog posts. I cared about the game and your team and how development was going. The fact that you're lumping me in with a group you seem to hate kind of hurts, but really from my point of view just makes me want to get the game even less than the original post now. It is not only a Reddit/4chan hate brigade here. There are fans too.
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Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 03:48 PM
personal attacks on the devs are not nice and you should feel bad for making them. they're people too
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Ananym 02-Aug-19 03:48 PM
*couldn't care less. #worth10min
perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:49 PM
@Rowleyy so what's the point of being here if you're not expecting any responses? just to vent anger?
crabz 02-Aug-19 03:49 PM
I like to read other peoples anger
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jai 02-Aug-19 03:50 PM
@perplamps will there be a public announcement for offering patreon refunds? There are definitely customers who were expecting a steam release and are not aware of refunds being made available
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Gary Orti 02-Aug-19 03:50 PM
@perplamps that's not what @Rowleyy said. Like at all. Stop mischaracterizing what people say. It's only making you look more foolish.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:50 PM
@Astorica I've addressed as much as I can and I've offered to respond to any specific questions or concerns you have, but you're not actually giving me anything to work with. I'm trying really hard to be here for folks like you who are in our actual community and have issues with this
hence me offering you to email me personally so you can put your thoughts down in a more structured fashion
Osteos 02-Aug-19 03:51 PM
Follow up question since you know but can't say the number, do you think it's something sustainable for Epic to continue to do in the long term? Can Epic make enough to recoup their cost from buying exclusivity for so many games? @perplamps (edited)
Kozmosbound 02-Aug-19 03:51 PM
Subscribing to the Patreon did not entitle anyone to a copy of the game. How hard is this to understand.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:52 PM
@Osteos I have no clue what Epic's finances are, I think I read they earned about 3b in 2017 or 2018
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DaBomb 02-Aug-19 03:52 PM
@Osteos It depends. Epics PR is terrible and their attempt to brute force their way into the market is not sustainable, now more than over because their fortnite cash cow is slowly dying in popularity. They'll have have to do something else, change something in order to make it sustainable. (edited)
Scruffo 02-Aug-19 03:52 PM
@Kozmosbound I imagine people don't understand that because they've always imagined that Patreon = Getting the thing you want and not supporting the person you like
Evey 02-Aug-19 03:53 PM
@perplamps Think you should close off discussion after tonight. There are still open channels for people to contact you if they have genuine questions, rather than flooding the discord with a bunch of people just here to constantly argue in bad faith with the same tired points and quips. the fact that there are still the same faces here from actual hours ago just goes to show that those people are more interested in continuing to kick up a fuss than have an actual conversation
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 03:53 PM
I always thought that Patreon gave me access to the person's brainsss, delicious delicious brainsss, I'm not a zombi btw
CptPanduh 02-Aug-19 03:53 PM
@perplamps honestly right if I were in your situation I would probably stop responding. Don’t answer emails, either. Let this blow over, take 3-4 days off, then look through your messages and provide a * clear written statement via a blogpost* that answers the most asked questions and concerns. You may say something here that comes out wrong or contradicts what you said previously
butterfly 02-Aug-19 03:54 PM
@DaBomb it's hard to tell if it's falling or not. it's still on a peak and they can survive one financial year of exclusives for sure. there's less than a hundred games, if they paid 2 million for each one, that's not a big hit for 3bn in profit (edited)
GarlicCorgi 02-Aug-19 03:54 PM
Here's the thing @perplamps @nonplayercat EGS is terrible but whatever, an indie game needing the buncha money makes sense and as far as I can tell this isn't quite a shenmue III situation where you're straight up going back on a ton of promises. That's ok, it's understandable. And if the tone of your game and communication has so far been twee nonsense, it makes sense to fill your announcement with silly jokes and whatever. Whether they be genuinely just jokes and not bad attempts at condescension, or even guilting which is what it reads as to me. It's bad PR but you're a two person team, novice mistakes happen. What gets me is to not have the capability, after seeing people legit say "I get why you did the deal but the way you said it was hurtful to me who've been a patron for years" to even acknowledge the issue. You're literally seeing and responding to people like this, going "well we didn't want the tone to be condescending", you're seeing you did something wrong not just to the "Gamers™" but to your fans. And your response is just to double down, that's what astounds me.
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MEULYN 02-Aug-19 03:54 PM
i feel like people just hate epic and are taking it out on you two wording may have been a lil harsh but the root of peoples issues is warranted distaste toward epic
HotDiggityDom 02-Aug-19 03:55 PM
Man, Dead Kennedys were ahead of their times: You're a star-belly sneech, you suck like a leech You want everyone to act like you Kiss a while you bch so you can get rich But your boss gets richer off you
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Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 03:55 PM
@DaBomb I have a theory. Epic basically just wants as many EGS user as possible. If that takes financing some indie games thats fine. They may make some money from that but what they really are after is to get as many people in the platform as possible. Once they are there, they will probably get free games, maybe fortnight, and once they are in fortnight they may start paying for skins, or coins. Thats where they are really making all their money. (edited)
jacob 02-Aug-19 03:56 PM
@GarlicCorgi saying "we understand why you felt it was condescending but here is the meaning we meant and the distinction we were making with 'gamers'" is not "doubling down" it's just explaining intent and message and empathizing with the misunderstanding of the message they didn't do anything to do their fans you were not wronged (edited)
никто 02-Aug-19 03:56 PM
@GarlicCorgi true, why is it so hard to just apologize
Defaultplayer001 02-Aug-19 03:56 PM
@jacob They came off as jerks, why is this so hard to understand?
Rhubarbist 02-Aug-19 03:57 PM
Could someone give me an example of this because I definitely didn't get the impression they were jerks.
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 03:57 PM
@GarlicCorgi I'm having trouble following your points because you claim we're not acknowledging people and then in the next sentence saying we're acknowledging them. I'm really not sure what you'd like
KarlGG 02-Aug-19 03:57 PM
@Defaultplayer001 You come off like jerks, how is that so hard to understand?
seemaq 02-Aug-19 03:58 PM
corgi will reply in 7 minutes
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MikeyMouse 02-Aug-19 03:58 PM
@GarlicCorgi I am 100% behind you
hmaon 02-Aug-19 03:59 PM
y'all whatever happened to don't hate the player, hate the game
Ananym 02-Aug-19 03:59 PM
An apology for going out of your way to insult and dismiss the concerns of potential customers? That's what people are waiting for. Not a, "but actually we were definitely ONLY insulting people who wouldn't give us money, definitely just them"
Em 02-Aug-19 04:00 PM
The part I have the most problem with is the whataboutism about climate change. "You have concerns? Well the planet is dying so go bug someone else."
jai 02-Aug-19 04:00 PM
@Kozmosbound correct, but offering patreon refunds to specific users on discord instead of making it publicly known just seems like a way to appease people short term and waiting for the problem to pass over instead
jaegerbombs 02-Aug-19 04:00 PM
@Ananym Buh-buh-but they haven't been following the game since the beginning
Mr. Pinky 02-Aug-19 04:00 PM
@Rhubarbist I didn't think that the blog post was a big deal at all. It didn't seem rude. It seemed playful, like teasing. I do however think that some of the things said in chat here were definitely antagonistic, like calling people "babies." And censoring the subreddit was the wrong move. They're going to get banned from their own subreddit like that. All that said, maybe best for @perplamps and @nonplayercat to take a step back from the community outreach for a minute. Everyone is a rubbed a bit raw, and everyone is taking everyone else the wrong way. Essentially what @CptPanduh said. This whole thing is slightly disappointing in regards to @perplamps's statements regarding the Reddit community. Found this game through the controversy, and reading through the supposedly "condescending" blog post, all I could think was how the game looked like a cute little Animal Crossing type game. Reddit is an important marketing tool, and to brush them off as a whole just disappointed me. I wouldn't have found the game if not for Reddit, and while this situation isn't going to put me off the game entirely, because it feels blown out of proportion, it does leave a sour taste in the mouth reading them call people "babies" and similar schoolyard taunts.
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 04:01 PM
@jai how much money are you expecting we're trying to protect in patreon refunds
Hal 9001 02-Aug-19 04:01 PM
Oof that got deleted quickly
Nikkichiri 02-Aug-19 04:01 PM
Why is Jim Sterling's video got deleted from here?
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 04:02 PM
side note to people spamming and just posting insults: this is a place for discussing stuff rationally, so if you're here to vent, you might do better on the eff-epic subreddit or similar
@Nikkichiri it's been spammed here nonstop
Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 04:02 PM
@jai it appears you aren't a supporter and yet you seem really caught up on that point despite not actually having money at stake edit: question: why is that? (edited)
davids on the loose 02-Aug-19 04:02 PM
People keep bringing up that it sucks that the devs keep lumping in fans with the randoms, but just based on what I'm seeing here and Twitter it just seems like everyone is attacking them constantly. Everyone seems like an enemy when you're crowded and constantly being attacked. (edited)
Mytherin-Dezhrak 02-Aug-19 04:02 PM
@perplamps If possible, I would like to know where all the money is going. A budget projection for the game's development, if anything? Why was this massive boost to development funds needed when you have a monthly ~$1500+ income from Patreon? You've said that you don't need the Patreon money anymore, and yet you keep collecting. (edited)
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 04:03 PM
We don't get anywhere near $15k a month from patreon
Cruduxy 02-Aug-19 04:03 PM
@Mytherin-Dezhrak their income and expenses are none of our business I think :p
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perplamps 02-Aug-19 04:03 PM
Pinned a message.
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 04:03 PM
We don't get anywhere enough to even cover our living expenses on patreon
Kozmosbound 02-Aug-19 04:03 PM
No one is obligated to subscribe to the Patreon. If you don’t want to support the Patreon, unsubscribe. It is not that complicated.
perplamps 02-Aug-19 04:04 PM
@Mytherin-Dezhrak the idea that you think you're owed our budget is the textbook definition of entitlement.
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dreams 02-Aug-19 04:04 PM
@Mytherin-Dezhrak what the world, no. No one does that
Baloo 02-Aug-19 04:04 PM
Did that FAQ ever happen?
Spoonbiscuit 02-Aug-19 04:04 PM
@perplamps Hey, quick question, but my buddy DaBomb#4060 seems to have been accidentally banned? At any rate I don't see anything he posted that was particularly offensive, and I don't see any recent ban warnings
AmboBean 02-Aug-19 04:05 PM
Do you guys forget that they need to have a house and food to make a game?
Scruffo 02-Aug-19 04:05 PM
All game developers are secret robots who don't need food and water
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 04:05 PM
The FAQ might come a bit later, we want to wait til things have cooled down a bit before showing the FAQ so we can make sure it's addressing the questions that are most important to our actual commmunity
GammaGames 02-Aug-19 04:05 PM
Where is that NITW react from? I want it
bilger 02-Aug-19 04:05 PM
Lol just pin the video at this point
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 04:05 PM
Stop linking Jim Sterling, we are and have been made aware. Keep the discussion to EGS.
Kram 02-Aug-19 04:06 PM
The devs really need to step back and let this ride for a couple days. Issue a statement after things have cooled down.
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 04:06 PM
I'm mostly hoping we'll get another dance with the faq
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Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 04:06 PM
@Scruffo As a non game dev. Everyone that works with code is a robot that doesnt need food, water or housing. We all live in the offices, and feed from tap water, and bagels. If you walk out of the office you are fired.
Defaultplayer001 02-Aug-19 04:06 PM
I agree people are taking it too far, but at the same time there is valid reason to be dissapointed. Also WOW could all of this been avoided easily... @Rhubarbist Did you not read that blog post? @KarlGG This is literally the first thing I've said about the game anywhere at all. Also probably the last caus I ain't got time for this time. Gonna come back and post this after I grab a snack. @AmboBean I don't think anyone reasonable is saying otherwise, just that their treatment of customers; especially on their Discord, is rather abysmal.
Katieemmaw 02-Aug-19 04:06 PM
I don't see why anyone's financial situation is anyone's business but their own 🤔 Things take a lot more funding than people realise, especially to get something to a standard you're satisfied with!
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KarlGG 02-Aug-19 04:08 PM
"Customers" have given them money. I gave them money and I don't feel disrespected at all.
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Sage 02-Aug-19 04:08 PM
No Linux support now 😦
uncle-leo 02-Aug-19 04:09 PM
Why are they complaining about living expenses? If that was such an issue then they shouldn’t have moved to Seattle, living there isn’t cheap.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:09 PM
@Ananym, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Ananym said: @AmboBean Did you forget that basically nobody is seriously upset that they took the money? People are upset that they took the money and proceeded to preemptively pile hate and dismissal on anyone who had concerns about it, then derided anyone who took issue with THAT as trolls who'd never had any interest in the game. Both of those are pretty ** attitudes to be taking.
mikewazowski69 02-Aug-19 04:10 PM
@uncle-leo This is their life not yours lol
jai 02-Aug-19 04:10 PM
@perplamps it's a matter of public knowledge, users who were expecting a release on steam should be made aware that the patreon refund option is available now that this is exclusive to EGS @Zeraphines people have multiple emails, and me having a stake or not is irrelevant to the issue since it should be addressed to the community as a whole. Whether or not an issue affects me doesn't mean it doesn't concern others / doesn't mean I can't support it
GarlicCorgi 02-Aug-19 04:10 PM
@perplamps A case example of how you've "acknowledged" people is the now infamous "youre not owed the game" response to paterons who can't buy your game on EGS because it doesn't support their currency. Is it a big deal? Maybe not. Point is that the guy's obviously genuinely worried and your response is "yeah whatever". How hard is it to just say "hey ok look we really needed the money and don't think egs is that bad. if you can't support us further that's ok, really". @nonplayercat clearly gets this to a certain point, openly offering refunds to patrons, so you get that "good people" are also hurt by this. but it's like you don't want to have to apologize for the news not landing right. You kept this attitude about everything regarding these news, and it's what ignited the backlash against you. Again, what mostly is astounding people isn't the fact you took the money and went exclusive, it's the way you're going about it and doubling down about how to treat people over it It's incredible that this tweet https://twitter.com/ooblets/status/1156960344977182720 was basically all that was needed. But instead, between your blogpost, and being on discord still going "well the people mad are just toxic whiny gamers", you just did an amazing overall smug spectacle.
I know this is a hot-button issue for some folks but getting some funding is going to make a huge difference for Ooblets. We're chatting with folks in the community via email and on discord if you have questions and concerns
Likes
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KamikazePlatypus 02-Aug-19 04:10 PM
@Ananym has a great point
Places to go 02-Aug-19 04:10 PM
What you guys don't have phones?
teej 02-Aug-19 04:11 PM
I can't wait for this all to go down in Indie Game the Movie 3
Odysseus 02-Aug-19 04:11 PM
I don't think being allowed to support/have an opinion on something is mutual only to the people who spent money on the patreon but thats just my opinion
Mirus 02-Aug-19 04:11 PM
Guys this is just in they're not gonna give you a free copy of the game for defending them
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Fischer 02-Aug-19 04:12 PM
@Mirus bet?
Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 04:12 PM
@Mirus epic might though lol
Mint 02-Aug-19 04:12 PM
was Fig considered as an alternative to Epic? https://www.fig.co/devs
A publisher where you can get a share of revenue from game sales – we bring together developers and communities from all over the world to publish great games.
seemaq 02-Aug-19 04:13 PM
@Mirus they might give them a star-belly role tho
Tenser 02-Aug-19 04:13 PM
ooflets
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Evey 02-Aug-19 04:13 PM
lol my god this is why it's impossible to argue with you people, you claim you're being generalised and dismissed while simultaneously claiming anyone who's siding with the devs on this is a shill or white knight
Flutterawesome 02-Aug-19 04:13 PM
@perplamps i wasn't spamming nor did I insult you. I was being factual. That's how epic operates their store. They do free game give aways every month and they reimburse the dev per download (if i'm not mistaken, which i may be i will admit). Also i haven't seen the video here at all until I posted it, so honestly you're full of it man. The video is 100% on topic and thus does not belong in off topic. I came here today giving you the benefit of the doubt, but man now... I'm probs gonna lump your game in with the AAA egs games and probably torrent it. sorry man brought it on yourself with the way you've handled all this. Besides, epic already paid you for the game 😘 anyway I'mma dip from here. I'm not a troll, just someone being honest with you and not trying to defend every garbage decision you make. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TriZmvorwxc
There are ways to announce an Epic Store exclusivity deal that might not eradicate backlash, but will certainly minimize it. Then there's the way to Ooblets ...
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:13 PM
@Nikkichiri, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Nikkichiri said: @Zeraphines **** I love EGS now
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Mytherin-Dezhrak 02-Aug-19 04:13 PM
@perplamps (regarding my previous comment 5 mins ago) I don't think I'm owed anything. I'm just interested. It's a common practice for people to have breakdowns of their budgets, their financial plans, etc. It's not mandatory, just courtesy to those who help fund you. I don't think its really entitled to ask something like that. You're within your rights to not tell me anything, but you could just say 'We're not comfortable sharing' and it would be well within reasonable. That's all.
Deadly Penguin 02-Aug-19 04:14 PM
dude they already watched the video, some of you are coming here because of it, they're pretty aware of it, and they're also aware of all of the stuff you're talking about, they've been literally 24 hours answering to the same comments over and over lul (edited)
hfbvm 02-Aug-19 04:14 PM
Just pirate the game if the Devs are already paid by Epic. Shouldn't be a problem right.
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Em 02-Aug-19 04:15 PM
Piracy isn't a good boycot system. If you want to stick with your morals you don't get to eat your cake too. Either don't play it at all or buy it after it comes out everywhere else.
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bilger 02-Aug-19 04:15 PM
>you people >you claim you're being generalised
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crabz 02-Aug-19 04:15 PM
Just steal a car, its already covered by that guys insurance. Shouldn't be a problem right
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jacob 02-Aug-19 04:16 PM
@Mytherin-Dezhrak it's obnoxiously entitled to even ask that with the implied expectation behind the question the patronizing "clarification" of how you're "just asking questions" to make sure they're responsible and have breakdowns of their budgets internally doesn't really help either and once again > just courtesy to those who help fund you people cannot just use the vague notion of "other people's money" to justify their own overblown outrages -- we both know you're not in that camp and attempting to just use that as a leverage tool of guilt/expectation theyve already addressed patreon funders several times over (edited)
никто 02-Aug-19 04:16 PM
don't compare a car to a game lol
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HotDiggityDom 02-Aug-19 04:16 PM
@crabs
Goat of Departure 02-Aug-19 04:16 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/l2Je5nuH2mRfdvEFW/giphy.gif current strategy from the PR department
MEULYN 02-Aug-19 04:17 PM
imagine having a pr department
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Scruffo 02-Aug-19 04:17 PM
It's like these people have the same joke
davids on the loose 02-Aug-19 04:18 PM
@Mirus I think people are just trying to be fair to the two individuals getting dog piled by strangers. Both of their reactions are understandable when you see how many people are coming here just to be horrible as if it will solve anything. The gaming community at large is just full of bullies and losers who want to be hateful because they have nothing better to do. It's hard for fans and people with actual concerns to get in contact and hard for them to respond with kindness when people keep coming here to post hateful memes. This is giving me anxiety and I'm not even part of it. (edited)
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DJF1107 02-Aug-19 04:19 PM
or you just wait a year... seriously lots of stuff is console execulive and no one bats a eye... you made your points now let @perplamps and @nonplayercat do their jobs and move on nothing will change
jaegerbombs 02-Aug-19 04:19 PM
So correct me if I'm wrong, but the devs are a husband and wife team, who, rather than step back and hire a PR firm with their sweet EGS money, are trying to handle this mess themselves?
uncle-leo 02-Aug-19 04:20 PM
@mikewazowski69 you’re right, it is their life and if they want to ruin their reputation and the good will they have with their supporters by being complete jack-asses to potential customers then more power to them I guess. Let them make their bed and sleep in it. It’s interesting to see a big check break the facade of two supposedly nice small town indie devs.
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nubnub 02-Aug-19 04:20 PM
Make a deal with EGS to get funding. Spend said money on mitigating EGS backlash. Makes sense.
KarlGG 02-Aug-19 04:20 PM
Personally I don't see them being the "complete jack-asses"
jmarieray 02-Aug-19 04:20 PM
whoa people are still going in here?
Cr1tikal 02-Aug-19 04:21 PM
SJW devs are bad at PR who would have expected?
AmboBean 02-Aug-19 04:21 PM
@Ananym and @Defaultplayer001 I was specifically referring to the people (of which there were very few) who were acting like plamp and npc didn’t need money for things besides games and I understand for how my message may have been too general/misinterpreted that was not my attention (edited)
NewGeo 02-Aug-19 04:21 PM
literally the entire purpose of this channel
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wwaves 02-Aug-19 04:21 PM
A 2 person team making a game by themselves who took an Epic deal knowing the backlash so that they were able to fund their passion project. PR teams, so inexpensive and cheap sksksksk
Snek 02-Aug-19 04:22 PM
I still think that the way they responsed to backlash and how they replied to many people calling them 'entitled' is a stupid thing and unprofessional. I don't care it's wife and husband, act professional if you intend on selling me product.
Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 04:22 PM
hiring people doesn't exactly happen overnight. it takes weeks or even months. then we'd just be closer to release when they actually said something about it. and people would be even angrier about it
Odysseus 02-Aug-19 04:23 PM
Maybe, even instead of a PR team, get a friend that wont blow up on ur supports but thats just my opinion w/e
Excy 02-Aug-19 04:23 PM
big yikes
ACherry6049 02-Aug-19 04:23 PM
How many folk are here from reddit?
Evey 02-Aug-19 04:23 PM
"SJW" has been dropped, gamer buzzword bingo achieved!
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:23 PM
@CorruptedEXE, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@CorruptedEXE said: Aw **** yeah bingo
@Places to go, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Places to go said: You don't even need a PR team. Just don't take the **** and immediately address the people who will disagree with your choice, of whom you already know there will be many, toxic entitled babyrage gamerz. Also I would download a car if I could. If cars were infinitely replicable and I could get a sketchy one for free you best believe I'm downloading an entire garage.
Terra 02-Aug-19 04:24 PM
i'm a non gaming business owner and i'm pretty sure it's general practice to never insult potential customers. or is that just me?
hfbvm 02-Aug-19 04:24 PM
Am I more entitled if I pirate a game than a Dev who shits on its player base?
Tenser 02-Aug-19 04:25 PM
@Zeraphines They could have hired somebody within 24 hours to assess their blogpost and the news surrounding the EGS deal, and could have told the devs a proper response by today. PR teams do not have several weeks/months long turnaround lol
seemaq 02-Aug-19 04:25 PM
@Zeraphines they said they were expecting a backlash
June_July 02-Aug-19 04:25 PM
Implying the entitled trolls who have spent 24 hours here where "potential customers" to begin with 🤔 @Terra
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Ananym 02-Aug-19 04:25 PM
People who care about videogames, care about videogames. Yes, they were potential customers if the game was good.
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JaceTwice 02-Aug-19 04:25 PM
depends on the customer and what they’re doing honestly, I’ve seen plenty of rude people get told to leave from plenty of brick-and-mortar stores
crabz 02-Aug-19 04:25 PM
@Places to go would you still be downloading your infinite cars if they were depriving a small family run business of sales? Just because pirating isn't technically stealing doesn't mean it doesn't affect the lively hood of small studios
arc 02-Aug-19 04:25 PM
just looking at this, it's such a blatantly obvious case of brigading. what do you guys think you're accomplishing?
Mint 02-Aug-19 04:25 PM
5,626 votes and 997 comments so far on Reddit
bilger 02-Aug-19 04:25 PM
10 minute slowmode is a bit much, makes it impossible to hold a conversation. Unless that's the point? Lol @ using SJW as an insult, how's middle school? Piracy isn't right. Personally I'm just gonna wait for exclusivity to end and snap it up. Or if it ends up on Play Anywhere/XGP.
Cruduxy 02-Aug-19 04:26 PM
@Terra what would you do if customers start insulting your employees? (about this channel, not the blog post)
Alex Softflower 02-Aug-19 04:26 PM
I am here to watch the backlash happen real time, please continue while i enjoy popcorn
SyntheticTeapot 02-Aug-19 04:26 PM
lol It's weird asking who came from reddit when the devs literally made an announcement post on their own subreddit that they moderate and update.
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никто 02-Aug-19 04:27 PM
https://snew.notabug.io/r/Ooblets/ a visualization of the reddit before it got closed in case anyone was curious EDIT: red posts were deleted (edited)
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:28 PM
@GarlicCorgi, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@GarlicCorgi said: @jacob @KarlGG Ben going "you're not owed the game" to a patreon going "I literally can't buy it now because the EGS doesn't have my currency, why did you insult me preemptively in the blogpost" is just empathizing with their misunderstanding and not a complete jack-*** response. Hey you know what's the most incredible bit about this pr thing is that they're 2 devs, the one going "you're entitled" is who wrote the blogpost, but Rebecca is the one who wrote the mail sent to subscribers. And the email is basically what the blogpost should've been. So once more, you HAD everything right. but then Ben decided to bait people into anger for no reason and ruined it all. And if you think I'm being unreasonable or misreading here, just ask yourself why other small-team indie games like Untitled Goose Game were able to announce their EGS exclusivity without generating any backlash, "toxicity" "brigading" or however you want to label it.
GammaGames 02-Aug-19 04:29 PM
Oh wow I see why the subreddit was closed, that's un-managable (edited)
Sage 02-Aug-19 04:31 PM
If the smug attitude in the post wasn't intentionally made to gain marketing (all pr is good pr amirite), then idk man. EGS is anti linux, ruling me out as a customer now :(, which is rather disheartening. I get taking the money from egs as a fellow indie dev, I would too tbh, but the attitude to the general population? That's so weird imo 😕
Nikkichiri 02-Aug-19 04:31 PM
I'm fine with the game being only on Epic Store, but article does seems to suggest that we should hate that decision. And it's weird. I like devlogs and I want this game to succeed. But I also acknowledge Jim Sterling's criticism. You can't just say that it's non issue and people should just back off. It's a real issue. EGS is a monopoly and under capitalism it is bad. At least don't say anything about it (if epic didn't make you do it). tl;dr: I don't like how article is written. (edited)
jacob 02-Aug-19 04:31 PM
@GarlicCorgi if youre talking about the subreddit post, the reply was attached onto the unrelated comment to be intentionally disingenuous that wasnt a response to that fellow's story some people are uncharacteristically mad because they don't like being classified by all the entitlement and toxicity alluded to in the blog post which very much exists game devs are not slaves to horrible people that think it's okay to treat everyone like garbage if they don't get what they want and to have no concern for the labor and efforts behind the stuff they like. this is totally not okay. (edited)
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Disco 02-Aug-19 04:31 PM
hi friends i just joined to say that the epic games store is fine and sassy posts dunking on toxic GaMeRs is my favorite. also please play outer wilds. (edited)
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NewGeo 02-Aug-19 04:32 PM
why is gamer a negative term lol, since when. Playing games = bad? (edited)
Poyo Boyo 02-Aug-19 04:32 PM
Im surprised people are giving you thumps up when your ebeing sarcastic (edited)
Cr1tikal 02-Aug-19 04:32 PM
it's not just this epic deal that's the problem, these two have gone way off the rails in their game design. E.G. replacing physical fights with dance "battles" 😑
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SingeMoisi 02-Aug-19 04:32 PM
gamer is an insult now.
Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 04:33 PM
@Disco Oh Hi Mr. Tim Sweeney? How is that fortnight money treating you guys?
Evey 02-Aug-19 04:33 PM
Gamer has been a negative term since 2014 so yeah I liked that comment unironically lol
Nagnu 02-Aug-19 04:33 PM
Blame Gamergate claiming the word gamer and making it a slur because of their hatred.
Excy 02-Aug-19 04:33 PM
I'm amazed at how many people here are completely disregarding genuine concern and criticism as brigading and trolling. Equally the devs censoring those genuine concerns is very worrying. I've been loosely following this game for months now and enjoying seeing it develop but I'm being bundled into this troll group simply because I'm not a discord member or Patreon. Disgusting.
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Odysseus 02-Aug-19 04:34 PM
Literally. It's not even **** EGS to me tbh but the way the devs handled this whole thing. They basically threw everyone who disagreed out the window and screw whether you gave us money or not because it's our game
Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 04:35 PM
@GarlicCorgi you're being really mean with your personal attacks. i get that you have strong feelings about this topic but you should maybe think a little more about who is on the other end of your comments and how you'd feel if someone said that stuff to you
LeftHandedSmurf 02-Aug-19 04:35 PM
😂 personal attacks haha ha
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Raekai 02-Aug-19 04:35 PM
(1) Some people don't like EGS, Epic, Tencent, etc. Probably for some good reasons. It seems like some people don't trust their security, some people can't use the launcher in their region, etc. (2) Some people feel like there has been a minor bait and switch because the devs have led them to believe that Ooblets would launch on Steam. (3a) Some people felt like the humor in the blog post had a very poor tone. (3b) Some people feel like the responses from the devs have had a very poor tone and that they are acting like dismissive jerks. Now, in each of these ideas, there is legitimate concern, surely. The legitimate concern is being drowned out by the trolls, which is unfortunate because the legitimate concern is likely coming from long-time fans who have also supported the game through Patreon and/or buying merchandise (like myself) and feel like they already have money or stake in this. (I get it. I don't support/like/trust Epic, but I do support/like/trust Ooblets. Even then, I don't want to download another launcher—I don't want to use EGS for games when I have Steam like I don't want to use Facebook for communication when I have Gmail even though it's that easy to just sign up because I don't support/like/trust Facebook.) Are the devs acting like jerks? Well, it kind of seems that way, but it's hard to be definitive with that answer. (So much has gotten blown up at this point.) Ultimately, the devs aren't going to undo this deal with Epic. Why would they? It's great for them! (And that makes me happy!) It's just inconvenient for me and for some others. (And that makes me bummed!) Ultimately, according to the devs, the game will eventually be coming to Steam. The exclusivity ends after an undisclosed milestone that relates to Early Access, 1.0, etc. That's it. Also, if you're upset about Patreon, the devs are offering refunds. Please let me know if I missed anything.
seemaq 02-Aug-19 04:35 PM
You're just easily riled up by fake news, idiot. That's why people are mad ooblets is going to epic,... - "/v/ - Video Games" is 4chan's imageboard dedicated to the discussion of PC and console video games.
GoGoGooey! 02-Aug-19 04:36 PM
.(1) Some people don't like EGS, Epic, Tencent, etc. Probably for some good reasons. It seems like some people don't trust their security, some people can't use the launcher in their region, etc. (2) Some people feel like there has been a minor bait and switch because the devs have led them to believe that Ooblets would launch on Steam. (3a) Some people felt like the humor in the blog post had a very poor tone. (3b) Some people feel like the responses from the devs have had a very poor tone and that they are acting like dismissive jerks. Now, in each of these ideas, there is legitimate concern, surely. The legitimate concern is being drowned out by the trolls, which is unfortunate because the legitimate concern is likely coming from long-time fans who have also supported the game through Patreon and/or buying merchandise (like myself) and feel like they already have money or stake in this. (I get it. I don't support/like/trust Epic, but I do support/like/trust Ooblets. Even then, I don't want to download another launcher—I don't want to use EGS for games when I have Steam like I don't want to use Facebook for communication when I have Gmail even though it's that easy to just sign up because I don't support/like/trust Facebook.) Are the devs acting like jerks? Well, it kind of seems that way, but it's hard to be definitive with that answer. (So much has gotten blown up at this point.) Ultimately, the devs aren't going to undo this deal with Epic. Why would they? It's great for them! (And that makes me happy!) It's just inconvenient for me and for some others. (And that makes me bummed!) Ultimately, according to the devs, the game will eventually be coming to Steam. The exclusivity ends after an undisclosed milestone that relates to Early Access, 1.0, etc. That's it. Also, if you're upset about Patreon, the devs are offering refunds. Please let me know if I missed anything. (edited)
jonyo 02-Aug-19 04:36 PM
The fact that 'it's our game so nyeeeh' was extended even to current patreon supporters raising genuine concerns in good faith is the most embarrassing thing about the whole enterprise
Tenser 02-Aug-19 04:36 PM
the funny part about this is that the so-called "baby gamers" are being more civil than the devs
davids on the loose 02-Aug-19 04:37 PM
To be a customer who's used Epic before, I want to seriously say that it is not a monopoly. You seriously misunderstand what a monopoly is if you think that an exclusive for a store on PC is monopolizing it. Disney is a monopoly. Time Warner is a monopoly. If anything, Epic can only help by creating competition and forcing the market to change for the better, at least, that is the capitalistic theory on it. You can't mischaracterize something just because you believe propaganda by people who don't want to use It. Also, @Excy , you've got to understand that it's hard for them to acknowledge and approach the genuine criticism when you have people coming in with personal attacks, posting copy pasta and just being generally horrible. As I already said, it's hard to feel like anyone is being genuine and approach it with tact when one post out of 50 is actually a genuine fan with concern and the rest are hateful nothing posts.
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emmijadeshow 02-Aug-19 04:37 PM
@GoGoGooey! for me everything that's wrong with this whole situation is 3a and 3b. The blog post was completely unnecessarily rude.
Ananym 02-Aug-19 04:37 PM
It's.. it's not hard to be definitive with that answer. We've had a tiny percentage of trolls here, yeah, but almost all of these has been genuine opinion from people who care.
jmarieray 02-Aug-19 04:37 PM
disgusting? y'all they been fielding trolls for more than 24hrs. not everyone is gonna get a hug and a headpat because they like the game. it's unfortunate that you're getting lumped into the spam, yes, but there are other outlets for you to express your concerns. perp already gave his e-mail to respond one-on-one. you're not entitled to their kindness when they've literally been harassed for the entirety of 24 hrs over doing... nothing... wrong. but ok
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Snek 02-Aug-19 04:37 PM
I wanted to buy Ooblets because it looked so similar to Stardew Valley and I loved this game so much.. and now I can't buy it too because my country currency isn't supported so I gotta pay like USD equivilent. Then I saw what developers were saying. It's a low blow. I don't really want to support a dev that calls everyone who complains "angry gamer". It stung because the game looked so nice and seeing developers being so vile and quite disturbingly unpolite, squashed any wish for me to support them anywhere.. (edited)
repulsor101 02-Aug-19 04:38 PM
I'm more likely to buy games on egs because more profit goes to the developers. 30% takeaway is just too high.
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crabz 02-Aug-19 04:38 PM
how are there so many people from countries that epic doesnt support, does it really only support like 3 currencies?
mikewazowski69 02-Aug-19 04:39 PM
It just feels bad that people who have given money to the devs are being told "nobody owes you the game". There is obviously a better way to handle this situation... (a former patron) (edited)
hmaon 02-Aug-19 04:39 PM
additional currencies are on the road map https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap it's a bummer if you're affected, yeah
Organize anything, together. Trello is a collaboration tool that organizes your projects into boards. In one glance, know what's being worked on, who's working on what, and where something is in a process.
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 04:40 PM
@mikewazowski69 Are you a patron? Patrons were talked to about the situation. if you're not a patron why would you speak on behalf of them?
jai 02-Aug-19 04:40 PM
@jmarieray what will responding one-on-one to email do? This is the exact reason that you see people tweet at companies themselves, to make the issue publicly known because otherwise that email just gets deleted without being read
Mirus 02-Aug-19 04:42 PM
Image getting upset that the devs you've been supporting up to now don't have to be nice to you because they got a bigger check from someone else 🤡
LordDon 02-Aug-19 04:42 PM
@Snek That response to the person asking about currency and EGS that showed up in Jim Sterling's video was an edit.
hfbvm 02-Aug-19 04:42 PM
Steam is way better than EGS. It's not even a competition. The 30% cut is justified.
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Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 04:43 PM
@hfbvm we should go discuss that on the EGS community discussions..... oh wait (edited)
Paladin Knight 02-Aug-19 04:43 PM
@LordDon you realize discord has a search function right...
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Turkleton 02-Aug-19 04:43 PM
Look at all the legitimate posts they deleted from their sub https://snew.notabug.io/r/Ooblets/ big oof
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 04:43 PM
@Dr. Masquerade, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Dr. Masquerade said: Just came here to see the **** show
Excy 02-Aug-19 04:43 PM
@jmarieray's response to me is exactly the type of mindset I'm talking about. It's a shame I'm (and many others are) being pushed out of the Ooblets following like this.
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NaCl 02-Aug-19 04:43 PM
by the time epic adds my currency, the exclusivity deal will be over
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ArcDemonX 02-Aug-19 04:44 PM
Per your announcement, I can pirate the game and you can't get mad at me because I need to donate the money for the game to fight global warming. (edited)
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Places to go 02-Aug-19 04:45 PM
🤡
June_July 02-Aug-19 04:46 PM
You know, announcing to a pair of indie game devs that you're going to pirate their game is really not the cool kid move you think it is (edited)
Alex Softflower 02-Aug-19 04:46 PM
There's only two devs?
Justin 02-Aug-19 04:46 PM
Yes
Poyo Boyo 02-Aug-19 04:46 PM
Im moreso surprised they used getting mad at human rights and and global warming when epic so heavily backed by Chinese companies
SyntheticTeapot 02-Aug-19 04:47 PM
It's really not. Don't do that to them. If you're not going to buy the game - don't buy it. Don't threaten to pirate it as if that's going to help or change anything.
Ananym 02-Aug-19 04:47 PM
How do the deals work anyway? Do they get any proceeds from sales now at all until they surpass EGS's estimate? Is that why they wrote a tirade against their potential customers - it makes no difference to them? Wonder what Epic thinks of companies self-sabotaging their own sales after agreeing to exclusivity like this.
Mr. Pinky 02-Aug-19 04:47 PM
It's fascinating to watch this chat go through cycles as more people join for the first time. On one hand,
Devs = Bad
- The tone of the blog post can be read as hostile or condescending - Epic Games = Bad (for whatever legitimate reasons, I'm not downplaying this point) - Certain currencies unsupported, some Patreon supporters left behind thanks to this - Some of their responses have come across as antagonistic or rude - The exclusivity was announced on Aug. 1st so they could 'scam' people out of their Patreon money - They have censored their subreddit But, on the other hand,
Devs = Good
- In regards to the blog post, they have already pointed out that it was a (poorly executed) attempt at poking fun at the hot-button issue that is EGS exclusivity - This funding is going to help a lot - They've offered refunds to Patreon supporters - They are still supporting open discussion in this channel and their email is pinned if you want to contact them directly with personal concerns - The Aug. 1st "scam" has been addressed, see pinned message - This in no way excuses some of their behavior, but it does explain it. They have been constantly fielding vitriol and outrage from certain toxic individuals (not everyone) and therefore due to the relentless attacks, are likely to be a little keyed up currently. Again, not an excuse, but perhaps an insight. (tyvm @Raekai petula)
(edited)
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Tenser 02-Aug-19 04:47 PM
@hfbvm you're right, EGS is a joke. bribing and buying out exclusives, unsupported countries in 2019, no cart on launch, less than 100 games, no fully custom support for any controller, no steamlink, owned by tim sweeney, puppeted by tencent, the list goes on
Raekai 02-Aug-19 04:47 PM
Spending 10 minutes waiting to post again to say that @Mr. Pinky's post is great.
Terra 02-Aug-19 04:47 PM
and then other people have to have a say so the big wall you typed is suddenly scrolled away
Snek 02-Aug-19 04:48 PM
@hmaon "It's a bummer if you're affected" is so short sighted from you, and yet they could've launched on all the storefronts and get money from all sales? One thing I do not understand is why can't you launch the game on ALL the stores and get all the money from all of them? I mean surely it would sell a lot of copies and you'd have same money, as much as epic's deal was worth.
Zempre 02-Aug-19 04:48 PM
@Poyo Boyo you realize this platform you're using right now was funded (to help development) by tencent as well?
seemaq 02-Aug-19 04:48 PM
both sides indeed
repulsor101 02-Aug-19 04:48 PM
@hfbvm no, it's not really. Their operating cost for hosting a game is pretty much negligible compared to the profit.
Mint 02-Aug-19 04:49 PM
I'm just surprised so many indie devs feel the need to dump on people who play video games... it's just like if the director of some movie started trash talking the audience before the curtain even lifted.
Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 04:50 PM
@Snek You know that while you're developping the game, you're not being paid ? Their Patreon surely couldn't be enough for the both of them to buy rent and live. This deal is financially good for them since they'll be able to make the game without being afraid to make both ends meet
Mr. Junky 02-Aug-19 04:51 PM
@Snek just launching everywhere does not guarantee a certain minimum number of sales, but as they said in the blog post, EGS has guaranteed them a certain minimum, so the game won't fail regardless. They're trading risk for security.
hmaon 02-Aug-19 04:51 PM
@Sneaks I would say it's the opposite. I'm taking the long view that eventually more currencies will be supported and the game will be available on Steam. Unfortunately, launching on all storefronts is not a guarantee of any revenue. A total flop is all too likely for any game, good or not. Plus with Epic's deal they get funds before they have to launch, which lets them hire staff and get the game into a better shape before launch. First impressions on release matter, I think, though I don't know how much.
HotDiggityDom 02-Aug-19 04:51 PM
@Honeyxilia and what was their plan if Epic had not made a deal?
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Sage 02-Aug-19 04:53 PM
the big ploy to get the whole internet talking about ooblets is working!!!
ChronoZB 02-Aug-19 04:54 PM
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if that was the idea in the first place.
davids on the loose 02-Aug-19 04:54 PM
@Excy no one wants to push you out, but people are trying to be realistic about the situation at hand without being unfair to the developers or coddling people. It's hard for the devs or anyone to approach every concern put forth as if it's valid when so many hateful and negative, non constructive posts are made literally constantly. That's reality. They closed the subreddit because it was flooded with people just wanting to point out their mistakes and make angry, hateful posts. @Mint a lot of developers, especially small ones, are beginning to dislike the gaming community at large. A lot of people who game are lovely, creative and fun people, but a lot are also hateful, degrading and vicious because of their online anonymity. I've come to dislike the gaming community at large because people are just hateful. The Mordhau community is a great example of this, Reddit as well. @HotDiggityDom what most developers do, hope that they make their money back and work a normal job while making it usually. Look up any indie game that was made by first timers, like the creators of games like Night in the Woods.
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Mirus 02-Aug-19 04:54 PM
I am here to watch the car accident unfold
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Nagnu 02-Aug-19 04:54 PM
Eh? I'd rather not see a wall of copy pasta streaming by like Twitch chat. CD is fine
GammaGames 02-Aug-19 04:56 PM
Huh, instead of hanging out in areas where loud hateful people are why not seek out areas that are kinder? Plenty of them exist, and being in them really help you understand that the hateful ones are going to be the loudest, even if they're the minority
Snek 02-Aug-19 04:58 PM
@Honeyxilia 3k+ dollars not enough to pay rent and live? Steam Early Access Exists too if they couldn't fund the game. Launch early for people and develop with community, kinda like all the devs were doing? It also doesn't give them leverage to act in such way they acted towards the community. The posts that I've read that some of the devs posted are just insulting.
Places to go 02-Aug-19 04:58 PM
Please play Diablo Immortal.
Subdigital 02-Aug-19 04:58 PM
@Honeyxilia You cant be making a product and also complain about not being paid. Lol. THats like owning a business and crying "I dont get paid!"
seemaq 02-Aug-19 04:58 PM
@Places to go I don't have a phone
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Firefly 02-Aug-19 04:58 PM
I just saw the news. I am so disappointed. Your choice must be respected, but I have been following this game via social media for almost the beginning and my disappointment is huge. I refuse to give any money to Epic. Your game made me dream, it makes me almost cry now. I wish you all the best, but I hope that the exclusivity is a day raised (even if in the jungle of games releases if it takes too long to buy your game may have dissipated). Sad news (for me).
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Celery Man 02-Aug-19 04:59 PM
Hey guys have you heard of climate change? Why are you wasting time tippity tapping stuff in discord? We have a planet and people to save.
dreams 02-Aug-19 04:59 PM
@GammaGames Guess what, this place used to be like that before the blog post was posted all over reddit and 4chan and people flooded here just to post their hot takes and drown out any actual fans who had real concerns and posted them in a constructive way 🙃
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Astorica 02-Aug-19 05:01 PM
"There’s no such thing as bad publicity" Is such a huge myth so many people fall for Think about what future investors are going to think when they research about Glumberland now, the comments from the devs they'll see and the controversy around it They didn't only alienate customers, old and potential ones, this is going to hurt them in the long run unless they can turn this around
Zempre 02-Aug-19 05:01 PM
I'd never heard of this game before today, and now I can't wait to play it. I'll be getting it on egs because I don't care what store it's sold on
lx NightHawk xl 02-Aug-19 05:01 PM
@Celery Man personally I think we should tackle the twitter ui update
Poyo Boyo 02-Aug-19 05:02 PM
@Astorica If they only make this game and pull out, they basically aint gonna lose much 🤔 Also @LuckyBlue just donate the money for the game since they already got the minimum sales and donate it to charity (edited)
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 05:02 PM
Hey Ooblets devs. Since you think we angry about a game over human rights/climate change, where’s your share of donating to charity? Since you now got Epic money, why not donate instead of being a hypocrite?
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Mint 02-Aug-19 05:03 PM
They are donating 100% of the profits from the Epic Games Store to combat climate change.
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PaulMEdwards 02-Aug-19 05:03 PM
ROFLOL.
Zeraphines 02-Aug-19 05:04 PM
@LuckyBlue i'm not sure i understand how they're being hypocrites. please explain? @GarlicCorgi you specifically called out one of the devs and insulted him in one of your posts. if that's not a personal attack i don't know what is (edited)
GarlicCorgi 02-Aug-19 05:04 PM
@jacob I'm specifically referring to Ben's discord responses to multiple people, including paterons, expressing legitimate concerns that they can't buy the game on EGS because it doesn't sell games in their country, who were callously dismissed by Ben going "You're not owed the game". I saw his response to those people in this discord, and they were not taken out of context. And I have no idea what's being posted on reddit, nor do I care. People tend to get mad when you mischaracterize them and "allude" to their concerns as "entitlement and toxicity", as if these were not cheap, cliche and incredibly disingenuous attempts at deflection. Yes, the internet is filled with jerks but that's not an excuse to talk down to people and their issue with EGS exclusivity, regardless if you believe the deal was a good decision or if the devs have been somehow mistreated. @Zeraphines I've given raw and honest feedback here, nowhere did I personally attack anyone. If you think any of what I said has been inflammatory feel free to point it out.
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repulsor101 02-Aug-19 05:05 PM
I just hope the devs don't get discouraged because of the backlash. We love what you're making ❤
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Honeyxilia 02-Aug-19 05:05 PM
@HotDiggityDom They would have kept going with their current way of making games and maybe they wouldn't have been able to finish it, lots of games end up being cancelled due to financial issues @Snek They also have to pay taxes as a small business which will sell something + if you're talking Patreon Money, Patreon is taking a number of that sum to themselves so it isn't exactly 3k. Besides, I know that living as an indie dev isn't paradise and contains lots of problems as a living which can drive people into depression and illnesses @Subdigital Yeah, peple being paid for what they do for a living is overrated, just live in a cardboard to commit yourself to the passion !!! By your logic, artisans shouldn't get paid, game devs, movie crews and music producers too Also, don't @ me like that, other people can answer to you and I'm not the team's PR ffs
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Baloo 02-Aug-19 05:07 PM
Well I think we’ve made some real progress here today. Unfortunately the Discord is now closed and you’re all going to have to go home.
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Mr. Pinky 02-Aug-19 05:07 PM
Over and over and over people keep saying some form of "Why would you insult the people supporting you/Why would you alienate your consumers" This has been answered several times, in several ways. It was not their intention to insult or condescend. They were trying to be light and poke some fun at the controversy surrounding Epic Games. Instead of coming across humorously as intended, some people took offense. They have already explained themselves though. The influx of anger though is almost certainly not helping. I'll reiterate a bit of what I said above.
- This in no way excuses some of their behavior, but it does explain it. They have been constantly fielding vitriol and outrage from certain toxic individuals (not everyone) and therefore due to the relentless attacks, are likely to be a little keyed up currently. Again, not an excuse, but perhaps an insight.
Also, in regards to the theme of "They're disregarding legitimate concerns from real fans!!" they have addressed legitimate concerns. This whole channel exists to address legitimate concerns. The EGS/currency issue has been addressed, with refunds offered, and the "You're not owed the game" was already addressed as being a response to a different user, not in response to the currency person. (Addressing @Astorica @Dr. Masquerade @Mint @Excy @GarlicCorgi among many many others)
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Snek 02-Aug-19 05:08 PM
I drew earth today (no joke). The planet is pretty, we should indeed save it because it's our home. Maybe devs can chip in too, since they seem to be /so concerned/ about it, instead of making a game?
RDR911 02-Aug-19 05:09 PM
I suggest they donate all proceeds to Climate Change
emmijadeshow 02-Aug-19 05:09 PM
see, the thing is, intentions don't matter so much if it was still condescending? so a "hey, we spoke to you like jerks, we're sorry" would go a long way.
jacob 02-Aug-19 05:09 PM
i sure love good faith discussion
Iota 02-Aug-19 05:09 PM
@Mr. Pinky that's not true. I have country/currency issues and my concern was trivialized at first and he called me entitled. Scroll back up if you don't understand (edited)
Grunkle Dan 02-Aug-19 05:09 PM
I already use the Epic Game Store for Satisfactory. Its their disgusting way of talking to people that has completely turned me away. Of course since I wasn't a member of this discord until today they'll just think of me as a liar :/
Sage 02-Aug-19 05:09 PM
I'm a linux user, now I can't get ooblet 😦
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никто 02-Aug-19 05:10 PM
refering back to this deleted reddit post https://snew.notabug.io/r/Ooblets/comments/ckqzmq/frustrating_development_experience_for_over_a/ if you guys were that financially unstable, why would you move to seattle? and also- why didn't you just put the game on early access on steam if you were in the need of money so badly to finish the development? lol
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Coty 02-Aug-19 05:10 PM
GUYS CLIMATE CHANGE
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davids on the loose 02-Aug-19 05:11 PM
I hate the way the internet has made people like sharks in bloody water. Attacking people they don't know for cheap thrills and little hits of self-righteous justice. It's frustrating but not in any way surprising to see that the people who are coming here aren't actually looking for answers and aren't going to change their minds. Not everyone of course, there are people who seem legitimately concerned. You all come here just to attack them and make jokes and when they fire back you see your behavior as justified.
kalin 02-Aug-19 05:11 PM
is earth even worth saving at this point
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KraftyPants 02-Aug-19 05:12 PM
think of the kittens
nerdinclass 02-Aug-19 05:12 PM
Anyone make a page where it’s all their rude respones?
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 05:13 PM
@ChronoZB, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@ChronoZB said: I mean, when you talk to people the way devs have to their consumer base, it's going to **** people off?
Mint 02-Aug-19 05:13 PM
It's good to remember that no matter how rude the developers are they are not going to apologize (unless Epic makes them) https://i.imgur.com/e54b9V2.png
Subdigital 02-Aug-19 05:13 PM
@Honeyxilia What are you talking about lol. You cant complain about not making money when your in charge of a product. That isnt what I said and your putting words in my mouth.
Vajra 02-Aug-19 05:14 PM
why are people posting boot emojis, that seems so petty. Both sides of the issue are not being nice to each other, and that's as disheartening as heck
Evey 02-Aug-19 05:14 PM
I just want to reiterate one more time The devs here vocalised EXACTLY what a whole lot of gamedevs think. Like so many people are entirely "Right on!" towards them about it. So maybe think about what that says about the gaming community and how it's perceived by the development community. I joined specifically because I was glad someone finally had the guts to say what we were all thinking lol
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CorruptedEXE 02-Aug-19 05:14 PM
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LordDon 02-Aug-19 05:15 PM
@Vajra some people are engaging in good faith. Others are taking potshots and being jerks and they need to be kicked.
Astorica 02-Aug-19 05:15 PM
That does in no way address my concern, @Mr. Pinky My concern is for their future. I understand they are angry and why they feel upset, but it is NOT in their best interest in the future when investors will be looking up their company and see what the devs have been saying and the controversy around it. It will make it harder for them to get funding in the future. Investors don't care why they said what they did, they care about how people view it, and people are upset.
Places to go 02-Aug-19 05:15 PM
Who cares about the people on the other side of the argument??? They deserve the boot. They deserve to be disheartened, they are morally and ethically bankrupt and need to be made aware that what they are doing is WRONG. They deserve it.
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hmaon 02-Aug-19 05:15 PM
mm, concern trolling
Mr. Junky 02-Aug-19 05:16 PM
Devs: Why so angry about EGS? There are many worthwhile things to be angry about! How about climate change? That sucks, right? Angry People: What hypocrites! Why don't youuuuu support climate change with your new EPIC MONEY? Huh!? Do it! See, you're no better than us! Why don't you take that money Epic Games paid you to fund development, and throw that meager sum into fighting climate change, thus putting you back in a position of financial instability, and leaving the game as an Epic exclusive without the former benefit of a better funded development, thus giving everyone the worst of both worlds! Why don't you? That's what I thought, checkmate losers.
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Snek 02-Aug-19 05:18 PM
@Mint holy.... Just becuase dev is handling lotsa backlash, doesn't give them any right to act this way. People seem to forget that devs are TRYING TO SELL ME A PRODUCT. Don't be condescending. I can assure you that if someone in the grocery store acted that way to you, you would walk out. I also like people who upvote the posts like from Mr. Junky. I can assure you that if they were treated such way in any store, they wouldn't buy from it ever again.
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Iota 02-Aug-19 05:19 PM
@nerdinclass https://i.redd.it/sbvluqqq7zd31.png https://i.redd.it/dh9twbz7hxd31.jpg https://imgur.com/a/7du1ztj You asked. I just found these in the time between posts. This is more worse than I originally thought. @Mr. Junky doesn't change the fact that that comment was really really not necessary at the time and came across as condescending for no reason other than to be condescending.
Kumalia 02-Aug-19 05:19 PM
They aren't even acting condescending, theyre using the same cute and quirky tone theyve used for literally every single post up until now
Grunkle Dan 02-Aug-19 05:20 PM
I think moving to the epic store is the right move for them. Being insulting and condescending however....ehhhhh...
GarlicCorgi 02-Aug-19 05:20 PM
@Zeraphines I don't think you actually know what a personal attack is. I specifically called out Ben and his handling of the situation, that's part of what feedback entails. If you think I'm making insults and personal attacks, you should quote them specifically and explain how. @Mr. Pinky I've already addressed why "It was not their intention to insult or condescend" doesn't excuse nor explain nor excuse their statements or decisions, and I've already explained why their attempts at "addressing" legitamite concerns have been exteremly poor to put it lightly. The "Nobody owes you the game" response was directly addressing @DeadlyPenguin, and the response to @Cruism was not taken out of context. You can literally search for these messages on this discord if you don't trust screenshots
никто 02-Aug-19 05:20 PM
@nerdinclass "Anyone make a page where it’s all their rude respones?" https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/cl3yoc/the_developers_behind_ooblets_are_a_textbook/ can we lower the timer to 5mins at least please, it's impossible to reply to anyone within time
6,447 votes and 1,114 comments so far on Reddit
seemaq 02-Aug-19 05:20 PM
@Iota the posts in the second picture are hours apart smh
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Jacobim 02-Aug-19 05:21 PM
I hope this game is cute and fun (looks like it will be)
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Breadman 02-Aug-19 05:21 PM
The problem is the devs are just that. Devs. They aren't looking at things from a marketing/pr viewpoint, despite there being obvious intentions to make a product for the market
rhymenoceros 02-Aug-19 05:21 PM
cute and fun? in this economy?
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hfbvm 02-Aug-19 05:21 PM
Moving to epic store, although personally I don't like, is good for Devs. No one should give them flak for it. Their comments on the other hand are yikes
MEULYN 02-Aug-19 05:21 PM
https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/_3_rK93-IDMNx3pZAV3A6Y8SkKZ_w-Ee-bhzMVKaIKk/https/cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/518684297071427588/606908045238468658/unknown.png?width=968&height=702 "clearly short sighted" sounds rude to me, idk. maybe they saw it and chose not to reply because of the backlash also @p@perplamps someone said n word earlier and the message wasn't deleted by the bot ♥ i hope someone can fix this (edited)
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Zempre 02-Aug-19 05:21 PM
@Iota how is saying "no one owes you the game" bad? I don't understand. There are no options, did you expect them to hold people's hands and say "sorry you can't buy the game now." no they told it like it is, you have to wait if you want the game. IMO that's not rude at all Considering they have a white name in chat I'm going to assume they didn't support or else they'd have the discord benefits for it (edited)
Poyo Boyo 02-Aug-19 05:23 PM
it is kinda bad to tell someone who supported you before you were capable of producing a game without proper funding they arent owed a game, ngl...
davids on the loose 02-Aug-19 05:23 PM
I'm moving on. I hope the devs are successful. I'll be supporting them. I think everyone here who is positive or wanting actual responses should move on from this chat, because it's not going anywhere. No one is changing anyone's minds for better or worse. Most of the people arguing are doing so in bad faith. (edited)
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Frostfall 02-Aug-19 05:23 PM
I'm just curious as to if the game is coming to Nintendo switch or PS4 and if not, how long is the exclusivity to the epic game store? I can wait...
Mint 02-Aug-19 05:23 PM
Just to be clear even the patrons were never going to get a copy of the game without paying for it also.
jmarieray 02-Aug-19 05:24 PM
patreon isn't a work for hire service. you pay them to support them, not because you're owed a product. it's in their tos. 🤷
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legsyrun 4
wil 02-Aug-19 05:24 PM
justine has it down 100%
dragonmere 02-Aug-19 05:24 PM
Censorship is always bad. Deleting days worth of Reddit posts and restricting submissions because you don't like people talking in a way you don't approve of is not ok with me. This game itself looks like trash. Devs appear fully incompetent. (edited)
Bagel Japes 02-Aug-19 05:24 PM
@Grunkle Dan “The right move” You can say the devs were in the right as much as you want, doesn’t change the fact that they have multiple opportunities to fund their stuff. Specifically Patreon and a few others. If they clearly had the funding to complete their work then there is no incentive to take Epic’s offer. They wanted the money, simple as that. They can take all they want from it too, they’ll just have to endure all the bad HR and business practices they participated in.
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tengblad 02-Aug-19 05:25 PM
@wil Hi Wil.
Ghostflake 02-Aug-19 05:27 PM
@jmarieray I agree, however it feels like they kicked dirt in all of their patrons faces with their recent discord comments
Reldio 02-Aug-19 05:27 PM
Really we should all be deeply thankful to these brave developers for giving all other devs that take an Epic exclusivity deal a textbook example of how not to handle it.
Snek 02-Aug-19 05:28 PM
THAT IS CUTE TO YOU? @Kumalia If that is cute to you, then how about I try to sell you something, then call you "you are entitled, you paid me money, I don't owe you anything". You wouldn't want to be treated such way. You wouldn't want to buy from me. I was sales exec waaay back before accident. I have a background with this. I can assure you that this is not how you sell a product. You do not sell a product by being condescending. You do not sell a product by insulting customers repeatedly. The excuse of "they are dealing with a lot of trolls" isn't an excuse because THEY KNEW BEFOREHAND, about this whole backlash. They knew very well about this going down, but they dug deeper and went ahead with their attitude. You do not act this way to people who supported you. From any potential investor perspective (aside from Epic), this company would be dead to me, because they would paint them in a bad light. @jmarieray Yes, but you do not throw people under the bus WHO SUPPORTED YOU THERE. Basically devs thrown these people under the bus for making things possible. It's baffling to me that you seem to think that just becuase someone willingly supports someone, that they are entitled to be treated with such vile responses. You are in no way allowed to throw someone under the bus just becuase they willingly supported you. You people seem to forget simple logic. Ask yourselves this: Would you want to be treated the way people have been insulted and treated in a day-to-day grocery store? Would you buy again from such store if owner repeatedly offended and insulted you, guilt tripped you and threw you under the bus for shopping there? If your answer is that you would - then you must seriously like being mistreated.
LordDon 02-Aug-19 05:28 PM
@Reldio Right? You try to joke with gamers and they brigade you at every point of contact because gamers are a protected class.
😑 1
Iota 02-Aug-19 05:29 PM
@Zempre perplamps said, to me, you can scroll back up: @Iota I appreciate that it's frustrating, but you can't always get what you want. I really wish some of your parents had maybe just once told you you can't have something so it didn't take some random game developer trying to teach you that life lesson. @Iota it's fair to be disappointed in the absolutely minor first world issue of not being able to get the game you want to play when you want to play it, but maybe in the same way as it's disappointing when ice cream in your freezer becomes too hard to scoop He said this to me after I asked him if there was a way to get them my money from my country so that I could okay. egs is not supported here. Frankly, he was being very hand wavy and resorted to calling me entitled and lumping be in with toxic people after I had done NOTHING toxic. I asked two questions about release in my country His behaviors have been incredibly rude. Even told him I was a fan. (edited)
Gen 02-Aug-19 05:29 PM
@LordDon where was the joke?
Places to go 02-Aug-19 05:30 PM
Hey check out this neat game by @Sage https://subsage.itch.io/waifu-station
EARLY development tactics robot waifu game :)
👢 1
̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 05:32 PM
seemaq 02-Aug-19 05:32 PM
as soon as the devs stop posting and look away you people start spamming the boot 🤔 pls buy ooblets (edited)
Sage 02-Aug-19 05:32 PM
😅
INfusion 02-Aug-19 05:33 PM
bro this chat is big mood, stop arguing
Kumalia 02-Aug-19 05:33 PM
Why do yall want them to be responsible for the issues that EGS have? This is what they need to do to make the game. Otherwise they do not have the funds to make the game. Yall are using the "condescending" tone as an excuse. Stop expecting them to answer for things that not only have they already answered, but are not in their control. Consider it more like this: Either you get it through the EGS or not at all, because if they hadnt taken the deal the game wouldnt have the funds to get done
Mr. Pinky 02-Aug-19 05:33 PM
@GarlicCorgi it doesn't excuse their actions, but it does explain them. And why are so many people angry that they said "You aren't owed the game"? People aren't owed the game! People came into this channel, lashing out immediately about how EGS doesn't support their currency, as if that is a life or death situation. Just because the devs are callous about it doesn't make it a bigger issue than what it really is, and that is that the devs sacrificed a wider international availability for financial security and the financial ability to make a better game.
💯 1
ArcDemonX 02-Aug-19 05:33 PM
Just looked up where Benjamin Wasser is living. I know where the money is going.
Apples 02-Aug-19 05:33 PM
There are several overlapping problems here. - The people who have concerns about EGS are being told their opinion doesn't matter. - The people who can't use EGS for currency or other reasons are being told to wait an entire year. - The Patreon supporters are being told, thanks for the money but we owe you nothing. - The people who don't want to create an Epic account are being mocked because "lol it's free". I think this is going to fragment the game's community. Sure there are guaranteed sales. But that's not the same as having guaranteed players. This isn't about people not "getting what they want", it's about members of a community feeling cast aside by the devs for the prospect of money. I was excited for the game and have been following it for a while, but this has just left a sour taste in my mouth and I'm not sure if I'll be buying it, at least not on the Epic store.
👍 14
Grunkle Dan 02-Aug-19 05:34 PM
I am waiting to see if the devs change course on being condescending to everyone who disagrees with them. If they do then I'll buy the game, if they don't I have no interest in supporting people who frankly come off as bullies. Maybe I'm wrong but thats the impression they have given me.
lauraht 02-Aug-19 05:34 PM
As a Pokémon fan who has been SUPER excited for Ooblets as THE PERFECT GAME OF MY DREAMS, and feeling bummed out by recent Pokémon events, this situation is disheartening : ( I fully support their rights to make the best choices to develop the game, but it's disappointing to see the tone of the responses be so defensive and passive aggressive, at least the ones I've seen in response to some pretty kindly worded and reasonable questions/discussions. It's nice they're engaging with the fans in some capacity I guess, they haven't gone radio silent like Pokemon did. But I feel like doubling down on the defensive attitude and emotionally closing themselves off to open questions and criticism from people who want the game to be great is potentially more harmful than silence? Shrug, I'm not angry about it but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit less excited for the game I feel like I'm going to love
dragonmere 02-Aug-19 05:35 PM
As soon as possible, I will actively and continually host any and all available cracks to this game on personal servers, based on principle. Censorship is bad and makes me angry. (edited)
jmarieray 02-Aug-19 05:35 PM
e-mail: we're going to epic bc we're getting money. instead of complaining, don't. everyone here: WOW how dare you insinuate i am am going to COMPLAIN? ... huh. gottem. i know everyone feels like their concerns are legitimate, but i promise you the devs have answered them four thousand times, separately. check the pinned tweet, drop em a line. you don't harass a company because of poor service, you just leave. you still have that in your power to do, and they don't get harassed! win-win. just because you supported a patreon does not mean you're a stakeholder in their tiny two person company. i know it feels personal, but it's just... not. send them an e-mail, but they can't starve or skip rent because you might have to wait a year to play a cute game about baby animals.
LeftHandedSmurf 02-Aug-19 05:35 PM
I love 4channers.
🍀 7
👢 4
Mint 02-Aug-19 05:35 PM
@ArcDemonX are you stalking the developer? That's really creepy dude.
Bagel Japes 02-Aug-19 05:36 PM
@Apples has it right, especially when the devs have had multiple opportunities to handle this CORRECTLY and not in the nonchalant way they have. People will get angry that you appealed to the EGS no matter what, but the way they handled it just increased the load.
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 05:37 PM
Imagine thinking a game being sold on the epic store is censorship LMAO
😂 4
zyzz 02-Aug-19 05:37 PM
@Nintendave I think they're talking about the subreddit being scrubbed
Astorica 02-Aug-19 05:37 PM
The censorship they are talking about is the Reddit being purged and shut down. @Nintendave (edited)
spvin 02-Aug-19 05:37 PM
Yeet
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 05:38 PM
@enslaved moisture, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@enslaved moisture said: There were many ways they could've broken the news that they were signing an exclusivity deal with Epic, but they managed to do it in one of the worst ways possible. Needing to get the funding to finish their game does not mean you can treat your audience like ****. @Nintendave I'm pretty sure the censorship people are referring to is the purging of any and all content on their subreddit regarding the EGS situation
ChronoZB 02-Aug-19 05:39 PM
Just to be clear, I don't think as many people are angry about the Epic exclusivity as some of you are trying to make it seem. Everyone is angry about the tones and comments coming from the developers. This is not how you talk to your consumer base and then still expect them to buy a product from you. (edited)
Iota 02-Aug-19 05:39 PM
@Nintendave no, he's saying this is censoring: https://snew.notabug.io/r/Ooblets/ Apparently, the subreddit was open and had discussion about egs, but that has all been pruned and the sub cannot be posted on now. Look through snew
👌 7
SilverShr0ud 02-Aug-19 05:39 PM
"just because you supported a patreon does not mean you're a stakeholder in their tiny two person company" i.. yes it does, though? spending money to ensure a game is completed feels a lot like that
Draspur 02-Aug-19 05:40 PM
All the people whining about EGS are proving their point. But why do they think it's ok to censor the subreddit?
PTibz 02-Aug-19 05:40 PM
Personally, I think Ooblets is pretty good. I'd like to see more of it.
Loriot 02-Aug-19 05:41 PM
I just wanna add a point to the picture I linked in this message When Hotline Miami 2 was coming out it got banned in Australia and instead of the Devs saying oh well too bad, they just let you pirate it since they know you can't obtain it legally and if you were gonna buy it off a 3rd party key reseller, they wouldn't get any profit from it. Just putting this out there
Cbajd5 02-Aug-19 05:41 PM
it'sa me, @Cbajd5
Places to go 02-Aug-19 05:42 PM
Lmao this guy wasted his 10 minutes just to @ himself jajajaja
skippy1300 02-Aug-19 05:42 PM
I can’t believe people here are blindly defending this company’s comments and actions lol
👆 9
GarlicCorgi 02-Aug-19 05:43 PM
I haven't seen a single patreon supporter on this discord demanding Ooblets for free. It doesn't take a lot of mental effort to understand why "You're not owed the product" and "we don't need them [paterons] anymore" are just disgusting responses to people who literally aren't able to buy the game because of EGS exclusivity. Bad enough they're taking EGS money and essentially "styling" on people unhappy with it in cringy blog posts and meme dance videos on social media. Could've just said "There's nothing we can do, you'll have to talk to Epic" and "We really needed the money to stabilize our company for future development.", left it at that and they'd look good in the face of anger, but no. Again, if you think I'm being unreasonable just ask yourself why other indie games like Untitled Goose Game, a project with only 4 devs AFAIK, announced their exclusivity deal with Epic without generating anywhere near as much backlash as Ben and Rebecca have.
̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 05:43 PM
The problem here isnt that its on EGS but the devs attitude Like this: https://i.redd.it/5pdxzozoayd31.jpg These: https://imgur.com/a/7du1ztj Especially this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA7tnZ5XsAUEqcy?format=jpg Idk how people can still support this guy
LordDon 02-Aug-19 05:43 PM
I can't believe people are here attacking game devs and a game they knew literally nothing about 24 hours ago.
seemaq 02-Aug-19 05:44 PM
"we don't need them [patrons] anymore" is taken out of context tbh. (edited)
Grunkle Dan 02-Aug-19 05:44 PM
I don't get the logic behind telling patreon donors that they aren't owed anything. Even if its technically true its rude and comes off as if they don't appreciate donors unless they are 100% behind them. Surely all you are doing is telling them not to donate to you in the future? It seems so pointless and kind of...stupid...
ByteMe 02-Aug-19 05:44 PM
@LordDon a lot of people knew the game, most people were just not in the discord.
👆 14
centurese 02-Aug-19 05:45 PM
That’s right, everyone with criticism has only just now arrived in the discord. Some people have been here for months. Get over yourself.
Mr. Pinky 02-Aug-19 05:45 PM
@Apples
- The people who can't use EGS for currency or other reasons are being told to wait an entire year.
Of course they are. The devs are not going to back out of a deal that benefits them so immensely so that a microscopic subset of their consumer base can purchase the game easier, especially when the deal they worked out with Epic Games guarantees them minimum sales that will more than cover what they'd be losing from that subset anyway.
- The Patreon supporters are being told, thanks for the money but we owe you nothing.
The Patreon supporters have already been offered refunds. This literally covers this issue entirely, because again, they aren't going to do something as drastic as reverting on the EGS deal over this.
This isn't about people not "getting what they want", it's about members of a community feeling cast aside by the devs for the prospect of money.
You act like this was a greed move. They're not a AAA game dev team, just going exclusive to pad the already fat corporate account, they're a indie team of two. They're trying to pay for food and rent and still deliver an amazing game.
💯 8
upvote 7
SyntheticTeapot 02-Aug-19 05:46 PM
Some people have been following on other platforms and were told to come here to voice their concerns / questions. jeez.
chralmus 02-Aug-19 05:46 PM
Okay sheesh the patreon comment seems a bit harsh :c
Bagel Japes 02-Aug-19 05:46 PM
@breadone Steam was released in 2003 and set the standards for it. EGS formed in 2018 and doesn’t even have a Shopping Cart at launch. Your point?
FE- House of a 1000 Corpses 02-Aug-19 05:47 PM
🍿
livid 02-Aug-19 05:47 PM
this chat is a netflix original on god bruh
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 05:47 PM
Yeah, Ooblets is going to be the first game I'm gonna buy on the Epic store. Who has an epic creator code I can use? You guys realize you can buy the game on Humble Bundle, right? Nope, not trolling (edited)
Kragar 02-Aug-19 05:47 PM
@Nintendave i hope you are trolling with that second sentence Edit: buying it somewhere doens't make a difference on where you have to activate it. It is EGS exclusive. so through their platform/portal. (edited)
Silvie 02-Aug-19 05:48 PM
Does epic get the rights to the TV show made about this chat too?
Tars Tarkov 02-Aug-19 05:49 PM
😭 4
neon 02-Aug-19 05:49 PM
tfw the people who were going to 'buy it' were going to wait for it to go 50%
👎 4
Iota 02-Aug-19 05:49 PM
@LordDon the devs don't exactly engender respectful communication when they refuse to engage with respect, as perplamps did to me multiple times. I didn't call him any names, I didn't insult him, I said that I was HAPPY he was getting a bigger paycheck, I said that it was unfortunate that it was at the expense of those like me. That is all. And for that, for just that, I was insulted and called entitled. He even went so far as to belittle my parents parenting skills asserting that I don't understand what entitled is because they never taught me. I don't come from money, I understand how valuable things are. I was saddened that I can't play with everyone on launch and I was treated badly for saying that. I even asked how to get the game legally, get them my money or anything. I was told to wait a year or just skip the game. Rudely (edited)
b00 02-Aug-19 05:50 PM
All of you talking about this being a TV show just further solidifies the fact that some of y'all are here just to be part of a cool little revolution or something (yes I'm aware they're 'jokes' but eh) (edited)
☝ 2
Extaria 02-Aug-19 05:50 PM
@Iota Guess you got to wait a year
Dolly Button 02-Aug-19 05:50 PM
all i gotta say is yikes
PTibz 02-Aug-19 05:50 PM
I played Outer Wilds through EGS the other day. It's a pretty neat game about space exploration and the wonder/danger of discovery.
Draspur 02-Aug-19 05:50 PM
@Mr. Pinky Rent and food in Seattle tho? Let's not pretend like they're starving devs at this point lol. @Iota can you post screens 👀
Hal 9001 02-Aug-19 05:50 PM
That’s... wow.
Cbajd5 02-Aug-19 05:51 PM
10 minutes later
Places to go 02-Aug-19 05:52 PM
YO CHECK OUT THIS AWESOME GAME BY @Sage https://subsage.itch.io/waifu-station DOWNLOAD IT NOW!!!
EARLY development tactics robot waifu game :)
👢 2
LeftHandedSmurf 02-Aug-19 05:52 PM
Im so entitled im literally shaking rn
👢 1
new age goku 02-Aug-19 05:53 PM
nobody cares about your itch.io game
💯 8
̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 05:53 PM
wait EGS isnt on linux b r u h, i guess i can never play it @new age goku SEETHING, he is literally a troll why he get u so mad
seemaq 02-Aug-19 05:54 PM
Imagine shilling for egs for free on a dev discord
Mirus 02-Aug-19 05:54 PM
hey guys I heard this was a Waifu Station server
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 05:55 PM
@Slow, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Slow said: @PhilBlank delete that post *
nonosie 02-Aug-19 05:56 PM
Yeah, about the subreddit... https://snew.notabug.io/r/Ooblets/ Look at all those deleted posts lol.
🤔 10
ChronoZB 02-Aug-19 05:56 PM
Well. I see that no actual discourse is being made here, it's people trying to actually voice concerns about how the devs have handled this, and being met with just about the same attitude as the devs. Shame, I'll save my money for something else.
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 05:57 PM
@ChronoZB sounds good, hope you buy something cool
Coty 02-Aug-19 05:57 PM
CLIMATE CHANGE
👢 1
🌎 8
Bagel Japes 02-Aug-19 05:57 PM
@breadone Apologies, I misinterpreted your comment for a second.
Mr. Junky 02-Aug-19 05:57 PM
"I JuST Don'T gET TELLiNg PaTreON DOnOrs THat THEY aRen't OWeD aNytHinG!" How have people not understood that the interaction didn't go like- ReasonableConsumer: "Hey I'm concerned that though I've supported you on Patreon, my concerns aren't being heard" EvilDev: "WE DON'T OWE YOU A GERDDAMN THING" It went more like- AngryPatron: "I'm just so upset! Your PR is a DISGRACE. I've been supporting you for so long and EGS doesn't have native support for my currency! Why would you switch to EGS!? I can't believe I supported you and now I can't get the game in a perfect convenient manner" DevTryingToSurvivePaycheckToPaycheck: "We only made the exclusivity last a year, we want to make this as available as possib-" AngryPatron: "BUT I STILL CAN'T GET IT NOW! TAKE IT BACK!" NowAnnoyedDev: "We appreciate your support, but it doesn't mean you're automatically owed a copy of the game." AngryPatron: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/431/201/40f.png "THIS IDIOT SAYS HE OWES NOTHING TO HIS PATRONS NOW THAT HE'S A RICH EGS SCUMBAG" EveryoneElse: "HOW RUDE" (Edit: I may be misinformed about the exclusivity timeline- if one in fact exists. The point still stands. The interaction wasn't as one sided as is presented) (edited)
upvote 9
0xDEADBEEF80 02-Aug-19 05:57 PM
@Coty woah too political
kalin 02-Aug-19 05:58 PM
well everything is political tbh
zyzz 02-Aug-19 05:58 PM
@Mr. Junky elsewhere it's being said that the exclusivity isn't based on time, and nobody knows how long it will last. Have the devs said somewhere that it will last a year?
Kragar 02-Aug-19 05:58 PM
yeah dont get angry ever, there is something worse in the world at the moment. so accept everything that happens (edited)
KarlGG 02-Aug-19 05:59 PM
And this nonsense is why reddit is shut down. Personally I wish they left it there.
Iota 02-Aug-19 06:00 PM
@Draspur I had to scroll for a while, now I have the screens now. I can pm you. They are very rude. And then, at the very end of our convo he finally treats me with a modicam of respect and answers my concerns in a way that doesn't insult me outright. It took about 5 pages of back and forth though @Mr. Junky would you like to see ether screenshots? I can prove to you that you're misrepresenting those like me who asked for support and were summarily insulted and trivialized. I wasn't disrespectful. I reached out to give my money any way I could to get the game on launch. (edited)
Astorica 02-Aug-19 06:00 PM
@Mr. Junky What a wild strawman that was
👆 10
👎 1
Dolly Button 02-Aug-19 06:00 PM
Unfortunately I have to say I, feel that. @ChronoZB :( I don't hate the choice! I understand going exclusive! Steam is a MESS for indie devs and it would be such a shame to work so hard on a game only to have it drown in asset flips. I just kinda...wish the announcement wasn't worded like that?
Draspur 02-Aug-19 06:01 PM
@Iota yeah sure or post them here @Cbajd5 Hi
LordDon 02-Aug-19 06:02 PM
@TheBestCasual has been a troll all day and should just be booted.
Cbajd5 02-Aug-19 06:02 PM
hi
Places to go 02-Aug-19 06:02 PM
What? You've never played Tuber Simulator? Pfff. You know it's fun, right? I'm not supposed to give my opinion, but give it a try, and then you can tell me if it's good or not. Not convinced yet? Okay, I'll cut you a deal. The game is available for free, and that's a great price!! https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://play.google.com/store/apps/details%3Fid%3Dcom.outerminds.tubular%26hl%3Den%26referrer%3Dutm_source%253Dgoogle%2526utm_medium%253Dorganic%2526utm_term%253Dtuber%2Bsimulator%26pcampaignid%3DAPPU_1_U7FEXfPoOtG60PEP1OCHyA8&ved=0ahUKEwiz3r3WluXjAhVRHTQIHVTwAfkQ5YQBCIIBMA0&usg=AOvVaw00_OrB_vmC1S_KcY4-M7Aa
👢 3
Apples 02-Aug-19 06:02 PM
@Mr. Pinky Following a game and anticipating its release, only to be told you have to wait a year to play it, is at the very least understandably disheartening. I don't fault the devs for taking the deal, not at all. I can't rightfully say that I would have done otherwise. But I do fault them for acting like those few lost sales don't matter to them. If I found out that some of my community members couldn't play my game because of a deal I made, I would be heartbroken. I know the devs gave Patreon supporters refunds, and that's super great! But that doesn't excuse their overall attitude about it. I didn't intend to say that the devs are greedy, but it is a simple fact that they took money at the expense of some of their community members. And when confronted about it, they brushed aside those concerns as being "entitled". I wouldn't call the devs greedy, and I'll say again that I might have taken the deal myself. But I would certainly do everything I could to listen to the concerns of my community and make them feel welcome, instead of just calling them "entitled" and that I don't owe them anything.
👍 9
new age goku 02-Aug-19 06:03 PM
What are they even doing with this money? Like, seriously. They said they only have enough money for one programmer who also does tons of art, ui design, etc, yet they have people throwing money at them via patreon, fans who seem very willing to help out with the game, and now they have even more money with whatever Epic gave them. Where's this money going to? Their PR is still awful (if it wasn't, we wouldn't be here), it doesn't seem like it's going into the game in any way at all.
Extaria 02-Aug-19 06:03 PM
This chat is so epic you have to wait 10 minutes just to talk
😭 1
Epic 02-Aug-19 06:03 PM
Lets be honest here, Epic is better than Steam
spvin 02-Aug-19 06:03 PM
I feel like I don't want to waste my 10 minute wait period but now I realize I wasted it
̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 06:04 PM
The problem here isnt that its on EGS but the devs attitude Like this: https://i.redd.it/5pdxzozoayd31.jpg These: https://imgur.com/a/7du1ztj Especially this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA7tnZ5XsAUEqcy?format=jpg Idk how people can still support this guy
potacho 02-Aug-19 06:04 PM
you would hope the devs learn a lesson from this, but nope, they just keep doubling down. oh well
👏 10
😬 4
livid 02-Aug-19 06:05 PM
what is the lesson to learn lol
😬 2
SkullDust 02-Aug-19 06:05 PM
As an indie dev myself, I find it incredibly sickening the way this team has treated it's fanbase. These are people who have helped make your projects a reality. Sure, it's okay to be funded by Epic, but it's SO important that you reason with your fans. Because when you stomp on them, who will support your future projects? NEVER take your support for granted like this team has.
👏 7
seemaq 02-Aug-19 06:05 PM
b o t h s i d e s @GarlicCorgi that link doesn't work for me (edited)
nubnub 02-Aug-19 06:06 PM
Notice the timestamps and exlusion of context? Convo wasn't exactly like shown there. The power of editing.
upvote 1
GarlicCorgi 02-Aug-19 06:06 PM
@seemaq Nope. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA7sWxgXoAAdtDT @Mr. Pinky
You act like this was a greed move. They're not a AAA game dev team, just going exclusive to pad the already fat corporate account, they're a indie team of two. They're trying to pay for food and rent and still deliver an amazing game.
They took the deal because Epic paid them a significant amount of money upfront, not because of EGS amazing support for devs or the revenue share. Trying to sugar-coat it with starving indie excuses doesn't change that fact. Nobody (well, nobody worth talking to) wants to see the Ooblets team starve, and people don't take less of an issue when AAA publishers take exclusivity deals like this. Quietly offering refunds to patreon supporters doesn't excuse nor explain telling them off when they explain their issue.
The devs are not going to back out of a deal that benefits them so immensely so that a microscopic subset of their consumer base can purchase the game easier, especially when the deal they worked out with Epic Games guarantees them minimum sales that will more than cover what they'd be losing from that subset anyway.
nonosie 02-Aug-19 06:06 PM
Vlogger Go Viral >>> Tuber Simulator. Also the exclusivity is based on milestones, not in time, please edit that @Mr. Junky
Klappstuhl 02-Aug-19 06:07 PM
I seem to have missed something in my absence, did Ooblets actually just go Epic exclusive for a certain time period? Wow, uhm... ok... (edited)
Mr. Junky 02-Aug-19 06:07 PM
@nonosie literally edited my message ten minutes ago
Grunkle Dan 02-Aug-19 06:08 PM
You know what? I joined hoping to see a change in the next few days. Maybe see them wake up but the more I see of what Perplamps has said the more I've realised nothing they can say is gonna wash out that toxicity.
Mr. Pinky 02-Aug-19 06:09 PM
Like most of the hard-headed people in this channel, I'm still convinced I'm right. 😉 It was interesting and engaging talking to you all though. Have a great night everyone, I'm out!
Kram 02-Aug-19 06:09 PM
Imagine choosing a platform that can't even set up a shopping cart. Literally every online storefront has one. How can a storefront that can't even setup a shopping cart be a good decision. Oh... the money.
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SurpriseBoops 02-Aug-19 06:10 PM
Wow I was actually really looking forward to this game now im kinda idk (edited)
Iota 02-Aug-19 06:10 PM
@Extaria people like you are exactly the kind of people these devs are. "Guess you'll have to wait a year then, lolol". Pretty tactless. I have more screenshots, but they can't be posted here since I don't have permission @Draspur @Mr. Junky milestone meaning people like me might never see the game on steam if it doesn't sell well. (edited)
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 06:10 PM
@INfusion, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@INfusion said: o ****
Faraday 02-Aug-19 06:10 PM
ok now this is epic
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Nintendave 02-Aug-19 06:11 PM
YOOO!! HE SAID IT HAHAH
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Coty 02-Aug-19 06:11 PM
CLIMATE
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slæmby 02-Aug-19 06:11 PM
is that a gamer?
kalin 02-Aug-19 06:11 PM
oof, thats a big yikes from me chief (edited)
neon 02-Aug-19 06:12 PM
r/pc_gaming opinion discarded
Raekai 02-Aug-19 06:13 PM
If you miss bubble tea, type 2.
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ScienceHerWay 02-Aug-19 06:13 PM
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CleverCurls 02-Aug-19 06:13 PM
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LordDon 02-Aug-19 06:13 PM
@potacho the devs haven't said a thing for hours, so get out of here with "keep doubling down." People just keep reposting the same screenshots over and over. @nerdinclass Have you met "gamers" on the internet? There's a reason Twitch chat is known for being a toxic cesspool. @Iota of any of the stories here, yours is a legitimate beef. I can understand why he may have responded the way he did, with the brigade coming at him, but I don't think it excuses it. I'm glad he eventually came back and talked things out with you.
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Kragar 02-Aug-19 06:13 PM
nice meme LordDon
Dolly Button 02-Aug-19 06:14 PM
they may be the same but it still happened and is worth talking about...?
̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 06:15 PM
im not buying this game cause the dev not EGS lol
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 06:16 PM
@seemaq seems like a really reasonable person @GarlicCorgi you can edit the message lmao (edited)
GarlicCorgi 02-Aug-19 06:16 PM
@seemaq Had to wait 10 more minutes to fix the link. lmk if its still not working for you https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA7sWxgXoAAdtDT?format=jpg&name=large The exact quote is "we don't need the money from [patreon] now though". I don't see how saying they admitted they don't need their patreon supporters anymore is somehow being taken out of context.
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livid 02-Aug-19 06:18 PM
Hi, I'm a Gamer and I use Reddit on the occasion. Pretty intellectual if I say so myself. Poggers, omegalul, monkaS, all my favorites. God I love gaming and posting out of context screenshots, please put it on the platform I like because the users on the reddit forums say so. We are gamers and we demand the quality we deserve for uh, playing games.
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spvin 02-Aug-19 06:19 PM
ooblet
opallithia 02-Aug-19 06:19 PM
More like oofblet now amirite
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Teco 02-Aug-19 06:19 PM
Got emmm
★Zeroz★ 02-Aug-19 06:19 PM
Imagine being this upset over a exclusivity deal causing a game to be posted on another launcher on the same platform. Lord forbid my dancing mushroom gaming comes in contact with fortnite because the developers wanted more money to finish their game
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CorruptedEXE 02-Aug-19 06:19 PM
Nooblet more like amirite entitled toxic gamers
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Iota 02-Aug-19 06:20 PM
@livid more like, it would be nice to be able to give the dev my money so I can play fair and square on launch day with people across the globe.
Extaria 02-Aug-19 06:20 PM
The big problem I have with the devs is not the epic exclusivity but how they discriminate out "entitled" gamer race, G A M E R S R I S E U P
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Hal 9001 02-Aug-19 06:20 PM
Great over-simplification there
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 06:21 PM
@SurpriseBoops, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
skippy1300 02-Aug-19 06:21 PM
Dev: “we don’t need the money” Also Dev: waits till start of the month to give Epic announcement so that nobody from patreon drops when charged Honestly would love an explanation for that one @perplamps
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 06:21 PM
@SurpriseBoops said: There are plenty of reasons people dont like the Epic game launcher, I wont use it because I cant make a cart, it charges USD prices, and as far as I can tell there is no refund system, so if I end up not liking a game or if for whatever reason it wont run properly Im **** out of luck and out that money.
nonosie 02-Aug-19 06:21 PM
Yeah, imagine being incapable of buying a game because the launcher doesn't support your credit card. Greetings from Venezuela.
jacob 02-Aug-19 06:22 PM
this says everything really all the discourse aside... im really disturbed by people who use some variation of the language of "teaching the devs a lesson" im not sure where you guys stand in life, but let's be pretty clear that it is not a sane or reasonable response to a post about not getting your game store of choice to think you should try and "punish" a creator and make them feel awful or gleefully hope they won't make a living in a difficult and thankful industry that's not only entitled, that's just completely off. please, reflect on the person behind the screens and think about what would make you think this way.
Coty 02-Aug-19 06:22 PM
@perplamps what are you doing to combat climate change?
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Silvie 02-Aug-19 06:22 PM
@skippy1300 anyone on patreon can get a refund if they want, check the pins
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 06:22 PM
Yo @livid you use reddit too? I love reddit, especially when they post the same pictures and images I had seen a month ago! Really helps me remember how funny the posts were the first time! 😂 Bro they post the funniest stuff on reddit, idk where they come up with it lol. @nonosie have you heard of the Humble Bundle? (edited)
Faraday 02-Aug-19 06:22 PM
some of you guys are alright, don't come to the epic games store tomorrow clickyclawsangry
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BubbleBubble P♡pP♡p 02-Aug-19 06:23 PM
When can I buy this based game on the EPIC STORE LAUNCHER?
Goodra 02-Aug-19 06:23 PM
waifu games are A-okay
Dolly Button 02-Aug-19 06:24 PM
I can only speak for myself but it really is more than just anyone feeling entitled,
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BlueMew 02-Aug-19 06:24 PM
i dont really have an issue with the epic games store, but i just dislike the tone of the devs. It hurts a good bit since im a pokemon fan and this game seemed right up my alley, but i can't in my right mind support these guys.
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slæmby 02-Aug-19 06:25 PM
@LordDon lol, twitch is it's own thing, why would twitch have anything to do with this, btw your cringe bro, you lose subscriber
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LordDon 02-Aug-19 06:25 PM
Some of y'alls identities are too tied to the word "gamer." The way you lose it when people speak, properly, about the overreaction of gamers tells on you. Same thing as when Leigh Alexander called out gamers. You can play games without it being an all-consuming identity that you go hatemobbing against anyone that makes criticism of your anti-social behavior.
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TheToxicGamer 02-Aug-19 06:25 PM
Any way to get the patreon money back?
arc 02-Aug-19 06:25 PM
the breakdown incommunication here is happening because we're calling the entire issue "it" while describing extremely different groups' extremely different reactions to the same event. some people are reacting in a totally reasonable way to different things, the loudest people are just brigading because they love drama
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 06:26 PM
remember to never save in .jpeg bois. also gamers are very epic (edited)
INfusion 02-Aug-19 06:27 PM
what.jpeg
ArcDemonX 02-Aug-19 06:27 PM
@seemaq Don't tell me how to live my life 💩
Draspur 02-Aug-19 06:28 PM
@TheToxicGamer Yeah, see the pinned post @Iota @nonosie Paypal? 🇾 🇪 3⃣ 🇹 @ everyone else https://assets.change.org/photos/7/ci/jj/DOcIjJYUZuAeqrw-800x450-noPad.jpg?1539047826
̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 06:28 PM
why do people shill for stuff like this for FREE
Kram 02-Aug-19 06:28 PM
Ooblets youtube video needs to be updated to reflect the correct storefront.
Teco 02-Aug-19 06:29 PM
Devs pls give your nae nae privileges peacefully
Kragar 02-Aug-19 06:30 PM
@LordDon the outrage is about the tone from the devs to the people that provided money just for the idea. Don't try to skewer to a social problem with a group called 'gamers'. And the problems with EGS are obvious, just google it and you see big features missing, awful account safety and their tone and attitude just sucks. Remember you didn't need a complete sheet just to look up what show is on what streaming service? i member, just as i will remember the time i didn't need 20 different launchers because of the fragmented market. I don't care the devs took the deal and skewered the market, i understand you don't have the money to not do it, but play it as a social problem is just weak and childish.
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Iota 02-Aug-19 06:30 PM
Honestly, couldn't you say that no one should be doing ANYTHING but combating climate change? I mean, can't that used to wave off any problem? That's such a bad response. Incredulousness aside, that's just so annoying to respond like that. @TheToxicGamer you have to email perp. Does anyone have that email address for him? @Kram a lot of their promo material needs to be updated now. Else it's misleading at best.
Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 06:30 PM
I doubt they will be able too update a lot of the marketing Stuff like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeRuBoO-HmE isnt really own by them (edited)
The new trailer for Ooblets from the E3 2017 PC Gaming Show. Ooblets is a town life game with farming, dancing, and adorable creatures. Watch the PC Gaming S...
SurpriseBoops 02-Aug-19 06:31 PM
Said this in the other chat as well, all this is going to do is result in more people not buying it and just pirateing it like they ended up doing with Metro Exodus after they flipped off the people who preordered it and made it a epic exclusive. If people really think this comes down to feeling entitled then they need to pay attention to what is being said, I was excited for this game, I was looking so forward to it. Now IDK, I refuse to use the epic games store until it has a proper refund system and canadian currency.
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 06:32 PM
Please stop advertising your low-budget games in the epic-chat. That's not very epic of you. Instead check out Borderlands 3 an Epic Game Store exclusive for 6 months :) https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/product/borderlands-3/home Also, clean the oceans wow, no preview image? Not epic (edited)
The Boss 02-Aug-19 06:33 PM
Use my store, please support the devs, I'm gonna buy valve to end the monopoly
ComradeRay 02-Aug-19 06:33 PM
Ngl I’m mostly here for the fireworks
nonosie 02-Aug-19 06:33 PM
Not really, PM me the information @Nintendave
Ryunocore 02-Aug-19 06:34 PM
I think everyone is here for the trainwreck.
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Celina 02-Aug-19 06:34 PM
hahha yes
arc 02-Aug-19 06:35 PM
it's a trainwreck created entirely by the people who want it to be a trainwreck, who don't actually care about the game at all. congratulations i guess on being able to entertain yourselves
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slæmby 02-Aug-19 06:36 PM
we have, its been fun, the devs still suck
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 06:36 PM
epic games launcher download free
Datguyoverthere 02-Aug-19 06:37 PM
and can be seen by the chinese government
joey_jrpg 02-Aug-19 06:38 PM
https://i.imgur.com/RalOSV2.png reminder that epic paid them so much you dont need to support their patreon anymore
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epiplon 02-Aug-19 06:39 PM
Why make games when you can fight human rights violation? (edited)
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Draspur 02-Aug-19 06:39 PM
Petition to use this as a bootleg #memes channel:
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soso 02-Aug-19 06:39 PM
I think there is a point in every production company's life where communication with the customer base needs to be turned over to a pr specialist. Sometimes you need someone who can help you better predict how a message will be received, and temper it, if needed.
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INfusion 02-Aug-19 06:40 PM
I just accept that we're all gonna die, and changing what straw we use is gonna have no effect
Teco 02-Aug-19 06:42 PM
We are Epic gamers we respawn
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NaCl 02-Aug-19 06:42 PM
walk into a sports bar and say that on a sunday, lol
Breadman 02-Aug-19 06:42 PM
Marketing and human relations is crminally underrated by indie teams
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 06:42 PM
I can now post emojis under comments, it's over for you gamers.
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Iota 02-Aug-19 06:43 PM
@arc I disagree, there are certainly people like that here, buut, the devs have really not handled this well. They've effectively fanned every flame. I experienced it firsthand talking to one of them
Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 06:43 PM
China is just a massive Humans right violation, and creates a lot of contaminants that contribute to Global warming, Tencent is one one the biggest companies in China that supports the government, EGS is majorly owned by TenCent. There for by fighting this game use of the EGS we are fighting both Global warming, and Humans right violations. BOOM. Check mate atheist.
Flamingo 02-Aug-19 06:43 PM
This whole situation could have been handled so much better
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Elystral 02-Aug-19 06:43 PM
Just weighing in to say yikes I've been excited about and supporting this game for years and yikes yikes yikes literally anything would have been better than this
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JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 06:44 PM
that patreon post...i think it was avoidable, because i understand that you can dismiss critics from what you think are trolls...but patrons are actual supporters of the game, that were giving money in order to help to fulfill an idea. to dismiss their support that easily is a mistake, in my opinion, bigger than the potential misinterpretation of the blog post. we should consider that today epic is funding, epic is helping, but maybe tomorrow they are not there. only supporters will be, people like the ones that paid the patreon or were subscribed to the newsletter or were in the discord before the backslash. even the ones that wishlisted on steam.
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Silvie 02-Aug-19 06:44 PM
@Dabjulmaros im sure you also boycott all those other products made in China other than video game launchers as you care so strongly about those issues lol
Extaria 02-Aug-19 06:44 PM
Literally any sane person wouldn't complain about the people BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS just because they made some bank, since even if they have money at the moment they're ultimately destroying their future potential to make more money
Inflectus 02-Aug-19 06:44 PM
Holy heckeroni that's a lot of anime profile pics. 👀
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sa 02-Aug-19 06:45 PM
somewhat ironic when you have anime hair
Ryunocore 02-Aug-19 06:45 PM
Why have a PR professional on board when you can preemptively make people mad because you think they're going to get mad anyway, alienating a lot of normal people whose first interaction with the game will be rudeness and drama? Just put the money on mocap instead.
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Broad 02-Aug-19 06:46 PM
hi lol
mattd 02-Aug-19 06:47 PM
does anyone else think gamers are stupid and entitled and the devs of this game are actually stable geniuses, no collusion, no obstruction, total exoneration?
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Bexe 02-Aug-19 06:47 PM
very stable
Datguyoverthere 02-Aug-19 06:47 PM
hello xi jinping @mattd (edited)
joey_jrpg 02-Aug-19 06:48 PM
be sure to check out this reddit thread with 7.3k upvotes about how much the devs fumbled this announcement https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/cl3yoc/the_developers_behind_ooblets_are_a_textbook/
7,264 votes and 1,240 comments so far on Reddit
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Bobby 02-Aug-19 06:48 PM
thank you for this bby
nottheguitar 02-Aug-19 06:48 PM
Has anyone here actually gone outside today? It's summer, y'all should be playing baseball (edited)
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 06:48 PM
nah, but ironically (edited)
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potacho 02-Aug-19 06:50 PM
that's kinda concerning they deleted and locked down all the epic-related posts on their subreddit. there were some legitimate concerns there and they're censoring them and ignoring it cause deleting all of it is easier than actually dealing with it i guess.
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Zeron 02-Aug-19 06:50 PM
Here's my take on the whole "entitlement" thing. Yes, gamers are entitled to their hard earned money being well spent. Just because they don't want to buy the game on Epic Store doesn't mean you should call them entitled little brats. I'm definitely against the way the devs dealed with stuff. Sure, you can put the game on EGS, but don't insult people for voting with their wallets. I'm personally buying the game on Steam if it ever releases there, but I shouldn't be seen as an entitled idiot just because of that
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Coty 02-Aug-19 06:50 PM
CLIMATE CHANGE - WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO?? (edited)
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Dolly Button 02-Aug-19 06:51 PM
Right like! Making a mistake is one thing, but shutting down any concerns?
Kragar 02-Aug-19 06:51 PM
just wait till the reddit getss closed down and the devss get banned. you can't censore your own reddit in this way, a other dev team tried and got in big trouble because of it. link for those interested: https://www.pcinvasion.com/piranha-shadow-banned-on-reddit-as-transverse-fallout-continues/ Reddit is not supposed to be used for self promotion, channels are set up by the community and run by the community and must follow the Reddit rules. (edited)
Piranha Games had a lot to deal with this morning on the Transverse Reddit channel as Reddit steps in to remove their moderator positions.
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 06:53 PM
Pretty crazy when you think about how big pcgaming is as a subreddit and it only got 7.3k upvotes. Must be a slow day 🤔 btw if you guys want to check out my stream, I just switched over to Mixer. https://mixer.com/ninja @Iota not really, I got 10k retweets on twitter for posting a meme. Yeah obviously a subreddit has more visibility than my tweets, which is why it should have more upvotes (edited)
Ninja is the one of the world's most popular gamers. A former professional Halo pro turned full time streamer, Ninja is known for being one of the most skilled and entertaining gamers on the planet, with over 6,000 wins in Fortnite alone.
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Iota 02-Aug-19 06:53 PM
@Inflectus I do believe you've been rekt, Mr. Soy @Nintendave 7.3k is still a LOT Um, Reddit isn't twitter. Is that not understood?? Are you being inentially idiotic? On Reddit, 7.3k is a lot. Ask any Reddit goer (edited)
Silvie 02-Aug-19 06:55 PM
@GarlicCorgi I'm just saying it's weird to see not buying games from the epic store as a grand move if you buy say plastic from china which are a 1.5 trillion dollar industry with alot of it directly owned by the Chinese state as well as being a huge pollutant contributor across all its production chain
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Argenthor 02-Aug-19 06:56 PM
The only way out of this mess now is to back down. Apologize and hope for the best. There is no other way out. If they let their ego do the talk, they're done for good.
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VenilyDawly 02-Aug-19 06:56 PM
@Argenthor They are and have been letting their ego talk, it's already a little late. (edited)
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Teco 02-Aug-19 06:57 PM
Creeper
zyzz 02-Aug-19 06:58 PM
Big egg doesn't want you to know
̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 06:58 PM
this is probably the most negative reaction to something being EGS store exclusive since lborderlands or other worlds
ArcDemonX 02-Aug-19 06:59 PM
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JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 06:59 PM
and sadly this was probably one of the exclusives that could have had little to none backlash after announced. but everything when wrong since the blog post bit and PR disaster afterwards (edited)
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Coty 02-Aug-19 07:01 PM
CLIMATE
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 07:01 PM
I don't want to get political but what the heck is bubble tea @Medea you're gonna get me banned fr (edited)
Extaria 02-Aug-19 07:01 PM
I'm an entitled gamer who loves games for the community, devs who don't embrace their communities, especially indie devs, will not get many sales due to turning off potential fans, doesn't matter how much money one initially makes, because it's all the money they ever will make
Medea 02-Aug-19 07:01 PM
@Moderator please ban @seemaq for not knowing what bubble tea is (sorry @seemaq it's for your own good) (edited)
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nottheguitar 02-Aug-19 07:01 PM
I figure this is a good time to let y'all know that Animal Crossing: New Horizons is an upcoming life simulation video game developed and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo Switch video game console, scheduled for worldwide release on March 20, 2020. It is the fifth main series title in the Animal Crossing series.
Raekai 02-Aug-19 07:01 PM
This is bubble tea. (edited)
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Kragar 02-Aug-19 07:01 PM
jusst checked, my bad (edited)
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MODOM 02-Aug-19 07:02 PM
I hadn't even heard about this game until today
EmiliusTheAwesome 02-Aug-19 07:02 PM
gasp
Draspur 02-Aug-19 07:02 PM
Hey can someone explain to me how to reverse entropy real quick
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Nintendave 02-Aug-19 07:03 PM
Alright, I've also been following this game for several months and it's becoming concerning that people are just sitting idly by while there are rainbows in our water streams. Only July 6th, I started noticing something strange when I was watering my lawn in east Austin. I turned the sprinkler on and a rainbow appeared. I don't know what exactly they are putting in the water, but this is not right. The government is feeding us this water and there's nothing we can actually do about it. What's in the water that causes it to be a rainbow like that? Is it oil? Are they putting oil in our water?
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Goodra 02-Aug-19 07:03 PM
This is the story of an entitled Game Developer who went to the epic game store for that sweet guaranteed cash on their video game & proceeded to spend the d...
EastCoastGhost 02-Aug-19 07:03 PM
potacho 02-Aug-19 07:03 PM
exactly @JC_ADX . i read a tweet saying ooblets was gonna be an epic games exclusive and just thought "aw, that kinda stinks. oh well, whatever, not a big deal." but then i read the actual blog post and saw how they were handling everything and went "whelp, they're boned"
cha6 02-Aug-19 07:04 PM
Same haha
Ryunocore 02-Aug-19 07:04 PM
EGS vs Steam is probably a really small reason why people are not going to take this well in comparison to the whole thing of doing a rude Don Draper "Why I'm Quitting Tobacco" ad. It's really weird how there are people who legitimately think there's anything cool about brands and businesses talking down to (potential) customers at all. tl;dr Wendy's ruined everything, we live in a society (edited)
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Hal 9001 02-Aug-19 07:06 PM
My personal feelings aside I wish them the best and hope they can learn from this. In an industry where first impression matter a lot this is going to put many people off from the game, especially now that the story has reached the media.
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Dolly Button 02-Aug-19 07:06 PM
I've always wanted more people to know about ooblets but not like this
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̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 07:08 PM
> We did the thing > shows someone flossing is this blog for 6 year olds?
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Teco 02-Aug-19 07:09 PM
Ooblets more like Creeper aww men (edited)
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spvin 02-Aug-19 07:09 PM
Wow that voice chat is insane
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:09 PM
More like Ooflets
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GarlicCorgi 02-Aug-19 07:10 PM
@Silvie It's weird to chide people for caring more about epic game store exclusivity than climate change, in a blogpost trying to justify making a deal Epic that a Chinese company has a large stake in and is a huge pollutant contributor in the first place. Coincidentally, downloading and streaming from servers running 24/7 also produces pollution, not buying plastic and going digital doesn't exactly fix the issue.
Silvie 02-Aug-19 07:11 PM
@GarlicCorgi I mean, the devs are wrong on that point too and it's dumb? But also saying not using the epic store while doing nothing else isn't going to change anything, there's reasons to not like the epic store but stopping the Chinese government doing bad things is a kinda dumb justification and so is the devs saying worry about these things and not entirely different problems (edited)
seemaq 02-Aug-19 07:11 PM
Ok I did some research and bubble tea isn't a thing in my country, I'm sorry (edited)
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Celina 02-Aug-19 07:11 PM
Ooflets
ArcDemonX 02-Aug-19 07:11 PM
What is bubble tea?
nottheguitar 02-Aug-19 07:11 PM
You guys need to stop talking about Ooblets and Epic and start talking about the things that matter, like Animal Crossing: New Horizons. Animal Crossing: New Horizons is an upcoming life simulation video game developed and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo Switch video game console, scheduled for worldwide release on March 20, 2020. It is the fifth main series title in the Animal Crossing series.
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turbobutts 02-Aug-19 07:11 PM
Oopslets
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Datguyoverthere 02-Aug-19 07:11 PM
not to mention tibet
zyzz 02-Aug-19 07:11 PM
It's okay, bubble tea isn't really that good, tbh
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Medea 02-Aug-19 07:13 PM
someone disable swearbot so I can say something mean to @zyzz
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 07:13 PM
@potacho the epic exclusive part is the smallest problem here. in fact, i can understand why they accepted the deal, as indie devs is a logical way in the current context. it´s not great for consumers for a number of reasons, but they need to think on their stability as devs first and foremost, and that was clearly explained. but antagonizing with potential customers is not a good idea, specially as a newcomer dev with a niche product. there is genuine criticism about epic store that was dismissed in the blog post, we saw some potential scenarios here (people that couldn´t buy due to lack of regional pricing, linux users...). but i think the biggest problem of all is how this is being handled here, how devs decided to answer (although i must say rebecca was polite and correct most of the time). in the heat of the moment and under inmense pressure is easy to make mistakes, and i think some of them were made here. in the end, the intention is not important, the result is that ooblets image has been damaged and also the image of the devs, which i´m sure are good people that simply didn´t expect a backlash like this or didn´t considered all posible outcomes while managing the backlash. in any case i don´t think the damage is permanent, when the next epic exclusive is announced, the "hate mob" will forget about ooblets, and when the storm has passed, the devs can start seeing things with clearer minds and discuss things with people that really want to politely debate (i love text walls @sa e.e) (edited)
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sa 02-Aug-19 07:13 PM
Nice text wall :p (edited)
INfusion 02-Aug-19 07:14 PM
big fat as M O O D O O D O D D
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 07:14 PM
@Dolly Button not many people know Ooblets because of the controversy, only a small niche of people are upset about it. Someone with 500k subscribers only has like 1,000 people watching the premiere of their video about it because it's not that important to anyone outside of this small niche, tbh. Let's say that the Ooblets reddit post on pcgaming got 14k views. That's less than 0.9% of the people in that community. Big posts in pcgaming get like 30k-50k upvotes. It's not even a big deal for most reddit users tbh
Ryunocore 02-Aug-19 07:14 PM
I think the craziest thing about all of this is that the timing of this whole drama couldn't possibly be worse, because people are not happy with the upcoming Pokemon game so it would have been a great opportunity to offer a cheaper, grassroots alternative that comes across as inviting and cool. Instead we get... this.
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Coty 02-Aug-19 07:16 PM
GUYS - PokeMMO
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EastCoastGhost 02-Aug-19 07:18 PM
wew lol
soycrates 02-Aug-19 07:18 PM
Hi! Just got here. Is there somewhere ideal to discuss what choices are open to Linux users who were planning to play the game but may have difficulty doing so now because of the new launcher announcement? Is that #questions or #epic-chat
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cookie 02-Aug-19 07:18 PM
Hey ooblets, hope you're dedicating some of that payday monies to DRM, dawgs
̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 07:18 PM
WhO cArEs AbOuT ePiC sToRe CuZ cLiMaTe ChAnGe 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡
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Pindannon 02-Aug-19 07:19 PM
ey why is the subreddit down? can't handle the heat?
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LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 07:19 PM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ What? Got lost in the wall text of gibberish?.
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 07:21 PM
imagine waiting 10m just to post gore and get banned lmao
GarlicCorgi 02-Aug-19 07:21 PM
@Silvie Nobody who refuses or can't buy from the epic store is doing so to protest the Chinese government or climate change. The only reason they were brought up in the first is because the blogpost mentioned climate change to deflect from people unhappy with epic exclusivity deals. (edited)
spvin 02-Aug-19 07:21 PM
What's an ooblet
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Draspur 02-Aug-19 07:22 PM
China and tencent are evil forreal, so is this 10 min cooldown
nottheguitar 02-Aug-19 07:22 PM
Animal Crossing: New Horizon, an upcoming life simulation video game developed and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo Switch video game console, scheduled for worldwide release on March 20, 2020, the fifth main series title in the Animal Crossing series, is not launching on Epic Games. If you didn't know.
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 07:22 PM
@Datguyoverthere, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Datguyoverthere said: holy * I just read the blogpost they really did put climate change and human rights abuses, ironic considering its **** china lmao
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 07:22 PM
They were joking
zyzz 02-Aug-19 07:22 PM
Ngl I'm buying a switch for that A.C. game
CollisionCourse 02-Aug-19 07:23 PM
you know they couldve avoided the whole mess if they were just upfront and kept silent
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 07:24 PM
@zyzz It looks super good, I'm really excited to play it.
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:24 PM
@DorkOrca it was about as funny as you have been. (Hint: not very) Dork is definitely very lame. I agree. (edited)
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Flamingo 02-Aug-19 07:25 PM
The way that the devs responded to the community backlash has completely killed my excitement for this game
knockty 02-Aug-19 07:25 PM
How not to respond to the fan base 101
Ryunocore 02-Aug-19 07:25 PM
Hopefully other devs will learn from their mistake. I know a guy who thinks there's no such thing as bad publicity and I'm hoping this will make him reconsider, so that at least something positive can come out of the situation.
xXlight_darkXx 02-Aug-19 07:26 PM
from the blog post it sounds like it will be epic's mistake, not ooblets
EastCoastGhost 02-Aug-19 07:28 PM
EARLY development tactics robot waifu game :)
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 07:28 PM
@Medea, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Medea said: I always knew ooblets were *
Pindannon 02-Aug-19 07:30 PM
ey why is the subreddit down? can't handle the heat?
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ComradeRay 02-Aug-19 07:30 PM
Yep
Evey 02-Aug-19 07:32 PM
Wow gamers out here really proving how non-toxic they are
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nottheguitar 02-Aug-19 07:32 PM
This new Ooblets trailer looks Epic https://youtu.be/_3YNL0OWio0
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spvin 02-Aug-19 07:32 PM
I think it's time for a default dance
CollisionCourse 02-Aug-19 07:33 PM
take away their starbelly roles
robert 02-Aug-19 07:33 PM
well paying via patreon ain't enough so get those toes out
̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 07:34 PM
am i the only one bothered by the art style
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 07:34 PM
@nottheguitar stop posting the same joke over and over, it's annoying because your avatar is moomin
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nubnub 02-Aug-19 07:34 PM
It’s amazing the dedication the trolls have. Must be really really bored to spam the same stuff every 10 minutes. Imagine if you took the time to do something useful or productive instead today. Maybe even play some games or something.
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:34 PM
If these guys were capable of learning from the industry and/or learning from mistakes, they wouldn't have made this move AND THEY DEFINITELY wouldn't have responded to criticisms like this. You have way too much faith. After our convos,I have none.
Celina 02-Aug-19 07:34 PM
Tf even is a "gamer". My parents play video gamers, does that make them toxic "gamer" babies too??
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 07:35 PM
remember when they gave @nubnub a star belly role for defending the devs
Pillow 02-Aug-19 07:35 PM
@Celina are you ready to rise up
DDos 02-Aug-19 07:36 PM
What does the "Starbelly Role" actually mean/do?
CleverCurls 02-Aug-19 07:36 PM
I was told it was an aesthetic role given to nice people
Datguyoverthere 02-Aug-19 07:36 PM
means you a member of the chinese communist party
LordDon 02-Aug-19 07:36 PM
@Celina do your parents spend their day attacking game devs over an exclusivity announcement? Probably not "gamers' then
sa 02-Aug-19 07:36 PM
@DDos nothing
Kragar 02-Aug-19 07:37 PM
@LordDon stop biting in the low tier bait, you make yoursself like goofy
knockty 02-Aug-19 07:38 PM
PR failure 101 GG. Next time be upfront and honest, just say you made the decision due to a large amount of money provided by Epic. Do not act as if the fan base and gaming community are uneducated sheep
desolate_era 02-Aug-19 07:38 PM
imagine breaking reddit rules and moderating your own product sub, it's like people haven't been banned for abusing that before, looks at devs
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EastCoastGhost 02-Aug-19 07:38 PM
Available for Windows, Linux
Ryunocore 02-Aug-19 07:38 PM
Any group, once called out for something they didn't do, will react negatively. This has nothing to do with the identity of "gamers", and a lot to do with the idea that the "gamers rise up" meme and the idea that talking back is toxic can be used by businesses to shut down dissent. Everyone talks a big game of consumers voting with wallets, but when it comes time to listen to people saying they don't want to give you money because of things you did, suddenly everyone else is wrong.
Draspur 02-Aug-19 07:38 PM
i’m not a basic for using emojis🤬🤬😤 emojis help express my emotions😃😍 stop judging me🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪 emoji users rise up😣✊🌎 fight the emoji oppressors😒🐍🤩🤩 f😳😳k those emoji police🤢🤢😷 who know maybe we’ll get a reddit emoji😏 who’s with me?
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nottheguitar 02-Aug-19 07:42 PM
@Nintendave No. It's not a joke, I just feel like you all need to know about Animal Crossing: New Horizons in this turbulent time. Btw did you know that Animal Crossing: New Horizons is an upcoming life simulation video game developed and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo Switch video game console, scheduled for worldwide release on March 20, 2020? You should check it out, you might like it
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Evey 02-Aug-19 07:42 PM
@perplamps Again just ban this lot so we can clean this place up already, yeah?
spvin 02-Aug-19 07:42 PM
Idk this timer makes it extremely easy to go on with daily life , then take your one in an eternity chance to post something (edited)
Medea 02-Aug-19 07:43 PM
@Evey the current approach is not working at all. time for the ban hammer
CollisionCourse 02-Aug-19 07:43 PM
soycrates 02-Aug-19 07:43 PM
I had hoped to simply discuss Linux users' plans and possible creative solutions to the launcher issues, but a ten minute cooldown means a bunch of dumb memes and gross harassment are going to be posted in between legitimate questions, making "discussion" impossible.
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Nintendave 02-Aug-19 07:44 PM
How do you guys feel about Vic Mignogna getting fired from funimation and his contract revoked with Rooster Teeth after sexual harassment allegations? Thank you @seemaq for moving your email emoji after my ion (edited)
seemaq 02-Aug-19 07:45 PM
for what?
VenilyDawly 02-Aug-19 07:45 PM
looks like a star belly there got banned, yeet
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:45 PM
@desolate_era woah wait. That totally is against Reddit TOS. You aren't allowed to mod your own product subreddit for fear of astroturfing @Evey#2642 "people aren't just laying down after witnessing firsthand horrible PR and questionable business practices? BAN THEM ALL" @DorkOrca there's no Gore here now (edited)
sa 02-Aug-19 07:46 PM
Rip Evey
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̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 07:46 PM
the actual things worthy of a ban/censorship were already dealt with (like the gore) (edited)
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 07:47 PM
This doesnt even have the thin veil of "genuine concern" that earlier people had, its just a lot of noise at this point
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 07:47 PM
Evey left cuz of all the trolls and gore and stuff
EastCoastGhost 02-Aug-19 07:48 PM
After experiencing a traumatic accident, you awake to find yourself in a strange, new, and dynamic foggy town, that is filled to the brim with oddities and quirks. Players will experience a little yet big tale about what goes on in the afterlife. Will you help the ghosts recl...
Price
$1.99
ComradeRay 02-Aug-19 07:48 PM
Say what you want about the game being on EGS but Jesus this is a PR disaster
JC_ADX 02-Aug-19 07:49 PM
Rebecca put a tweet thanking people for the support she received these days
nubnub 02-Aug-19 07:50 PM
I didn’t ask for “starbelly” or even care. I don’t even know what it does. @seemaq I’m just posting my opinions because there needs to be some positivity and reason in this troll infested chat. Crazy how it’s devolved. Thanks Reddit/4chan.
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Celina 02-Aug-19 07:50 PM
They did say they don't need our money anymore
Vetr 02-Aug-19 07:50 PM
Toxic gamers at it once again
никто 02-Aug-19 07:50 PM
🤡 ; Im not a gamer bot (edited)
Datguyoverthere 02-Aug-19 07:51 PM
when ur only defence is "tOxIc gaMeRS" 🤡
kalin 02-Aug-19 07:51 PM
is that a russian gamer bot?
knockty 02-Aug-19 07:51 PM
RIP
nottheguitar 02-Aug-19 07:52 PM
Ooblets spoilers 😶 do not open Animal Crossing: New Horizons is an upcoming life simulation video game developed and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo Switch video game console, scheduled for worldwide release on March 20, 2020. It is the fifth main series title in the Animal Crossing series.
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 07:52 PM
@desolate_era, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
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@desolate_era said: you entitled children better feel lucky you get to give these devs your money, * proud of having money taking and not given a **** about
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Hal 9001 02-Aug-19 07:53 PM
Oof
jacob 02-Aug-19 07:53 PM
it is very strange that so many of you keep trying to use "well i guess you don't want patreon money then" as a lame bullying tactic when they have politely and agreeably said over and over (both in private and in public here) that it is absolutely okay to stop funding them via patreon now they have secured funding i know you think this is a sort of "that'll show em" but it's really... not please stop trying to manipulate or control people with "you owe me" tactics, not just here but in life in general (edited)
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wil 02-Aug-19 07:55 PM
for people who don't understand, epic game store is a quick download away. if you have a pc just go ahead and give it a quick download and you'll be able to play ooblets when it releases!
Ryunocore 02-Aug-19 07:55 PM
For those who do understand, not wanting to download Epic or supporting this game after being mistreated is also fine. For any reason you might have. (edited)
NaCl 02-Aug-19 07:56 PM
except for all those people that can't use epic because they're region-locked
DeathPants 02-Aug-19 07:56 PM
@wil except if you're on Linux, but it's not like many Indies release on Linux anyway, sadly Damn, this 10m slowdown makes sense, but it really stifles discussion (edited)
Iota 02-Aug-19 07:56 PM
@NaCl like me @DorkOrca is the most weirdly staunch supporter I've ever seen @DorkOrca Because he immediately went right back to insulting people like me (edited)
spvin 02-Aug-19 07:56 PM
Yeet
̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 07:57 PM
dosent epic store have chinese spyware
Fawful 02-Aug-19 07:57 PM
There is no escape from China
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 07:57 PM
China is hacking your SSN from your switch NOW
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sa 02-Aug-19 07:57 PM
What if I don't have an SSN blobsmartthinking
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Kumi 02-Aug-19 07:57 PM
China is everywhere guys. You aren't winning by shunning the Epic store
Mustafa Fasula 02-Aug-19 07:58 PM
I don't see why people are angry why were you angry about the truth all what people did was proving their point that every one will lose their mind for the dumbest reason and other industries people don't complain about exclusives or spend the time harassing the makers they just buy it without any questions (edited)
Goodra 02-Aug-19 07:58 PM
you'll never see it comingggggggg Animal Crossing: New Horizon, an upcoming life simulation video game developed and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo Switch video game console, scheduled for worldwide release on March 20, 2020, the fifth main series title in the Animal Crossing series, is not launching on Epic Games. If you didn't know.
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DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 07:59 PM
@Iota I thought you made amends with perlamps like 12 hours ago, why are you still here (edited)
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Jpeg 02-Aug-19 08:01 PM
If u cant buy it on EGS cause of region that sucks but its a done deal, shouting at the devs isnt gonna change that If u dont want to buy it on EGS cause of le china spyware (or an actual legit security concern) then thats fine, but again, its a done deal. Talking down to the devs isnt gonna help you.
Draspur 02-Aug-19 08:01 PM
The second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy of an isolated system can never decrease over time. The total entropy of a system and its surroundings can remain constant in ideal cases where the system is in thermodynamic equilibrium, or is undergoing a (fictive) reversible process. In all processes that occur, including spontaneous processes, the total entropy of the system and its surroundings increases and the process is irreversible in the thermodynamic sense. The increase in entropy accounts for the irreversibility of natural processes, and the asymmetry between future and past.
Datguyoverthere 02-Aug-19 08:01 PM
see you in 10 minutes losers
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никто 02-Aug-19 08:02 PM
preach @jacob (edited)
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Vetr 02-Aug-19 08:02 PM
Epic is good. All you have to do is to download the launcher. No need to create an account because you already have one, created by someone else 😃 And you don't even know about it. But no seriously, check if you have an account by requesting password on your email
nottheguitar 02-Aug-19 08:02 PM
You guys should check out this article on Epic Games, Ooblets and global warming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Crossing:_New_Horizons
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Extaria 02-Aug-19 08:03 PM
Literally everyone here isn't complaining about the deal with Epic, it's how the whole situation was handled
Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 08:04 PM
@Extaria we were, but then we would get called toxic gamers and entitled. Followed by 👶 and 🍼 reactions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (edited)
Zeron 02-Aug-19 08:04 PM
Fanboys should understand, the only problem here is between the PC monitor and the chair. The combination of both them and the keyboard in which they type all the idiotic bullcrap. Anyone can be into a game, that's fine, just don't act like you're doing a good job when defending bad practices. I wouldn't be happy if my favorite developers took a dump on people's choices. The same way I loved these devs and still am into this game, but got left with a sour taste after all this EGS stuff. EDIT: And for the guy below me, do you not understand how negative it is to have short term success and long term failure? (edited)
Celina 02-Aug-19 08:05 PM
It's certainly a good tactic to make sure noone buys your games again
mattd 02-Aug-19 08:05 PM
anyways, the guy who wrote the announcement post is a complete moron who should never be allowed to write any kind of press release or even speak to customers ever again for the rest of his life
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VenilyDawly 02-Aug-19 08:06 PM
careful one of the devs wrote it 👀
ComradeRay 02-Aug-19 08:06 PM
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Iota 02-Aug-19 08:06 PM
@Nintendave @DorkOrca yeah, it's really a mystery why I would still be annoyed here after seeing perplamps recant the respectful personality and go right back to insulting people like me and calling us entitled trolls. This after I asked how I could pay for his game... Truly a wonder. @mattd agreed @DorkOrca maybe, just maybe it's because I CANNOT pay for a game that otherwise would be available in my country. And, what's more, it might never come because of milestone release. @jacob who exactly did I abuse? Who did I harass? Everything I said to the dev was how I felt and I strictly avoided saying anything insulting. Read our convos again. (edited)
jacob 02-Aug-19 08:07 PM
it's almost like wanting to buy a game does not magically mean you are allowed to abuse people and throw a tantrum at them with little valid reason they have no control over what currencies EGS accepts devs on the steam market have no control over the 20 or so currencies steam accepts for the few people that can't buy in a separate currency supported on steam or egs, that sucks! my heart goes out to you! but it's not an invitation to treat these people horribly or blame them for it (edited)
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 08:07 PM
@Iota bro chill, it's just a meme, calm down LMAO why are you gonna take everything so serious. Don't wait the 10 minutes (edited)
Ryunocore 02-Aug-19 08:08 PM
The mental gymnastics it must take to act like developers talking down to potential customers is fine but people voicing their frustration with how the announcement was made is not is beyond me. Why is it a joke when they say it and a tantrum when people respond?
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 08:08 PM
do star-bellies have to wait 10m to post 🤔
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MoistGoat 02-Aug-19 08:08 PM
Cause thats how egos work
PenguinMuster 02-Aug-19 08:09 PM
Whos just here to watch the world burn?
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A Venti Bear 02-Aug-19 08:09 PM
I'm here to watch the devs burn their playerbase to the ground tbh
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spvin 02-Aug-19 08:11 PM
Oh hey my ten minutes is up. Sweet! @CorruptedEXE nice! (edited)
CorruptedEXE 02-Aug-19 08:11 PM
Dude same!
Draspur 02-Aug-19 08:11 PM
What do you gents think of the ongoing protests in Hong Kong?
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 08:11 PM
Where’s the dev? I thought they’re willing to answer questions after a growing a pair of Epic ballistics.
vinyl sprakle 02-Aug-19 08:12 PM
y'all are wild lmao
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hmaon 02-Aug-19 08:12 PM
@vinyl sprakle real feral hours
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 08:12 PM
@LuckyBlue Email them, its in the pinned messages
KummerSpeck 02-Aug-19 08:12 PM
Would Epic be able to cancel the deal due to the negative publicity?
nottheguitar 02-Aug-19 08:12 PM
You get the point already, just preorder the gosh dang game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Crossing:_New_Horizons
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nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 08:13 PM
@LuckyBlue we're here but I haven't seen that many questions. Also there is an email in the pinned message 😃
Hotgayboy 02-Aug-19 08:13 PM
They have been answering questions all day @LuckyBlue please don't expect 100% attention. Keep in mind they are just two people. (edited)
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Hal 9001 02-Aug-19 08:13 PM
If Epic cared about bad publicity they would stop their poor business practices
wackydeli 02-Aug-19 08:14 PM
If people truly cared about EGS they would get off discord bashing a dev for a decision they made, and do something about it @VenilyDawly not at all what I meant, but you’re not doing a single thing to stop the bad practices the hive mind is echoing by bashing a single dev team. (edited)
DoZeR 02-Aug-19 08:14 PM
Bad publicity is epics business practice
Epicarious 02-Aug-19 08:15 PM
@wackydeli Invade Epic HQ?
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Arx 02-Aug-19 08:15 PM
@KummerSpeck a small indie game is the last of their worries. They're still doing fine after kickstarter games got signed on and after doxxing someone by sending their info to the wrong guy Vnucks are too good yo
DeathPants 02-Aug-19 08:15 PM
@nonplayercat I might as well ask one. As someone coming from the outside, I saw you guys were being funded through patreon. Has there been any promise of receiving the game after a certain amount of money donated, or was it always just donations with nothing promised? Thanks for answering. Damn, wish I could talk (edited)
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VenilyDawly 02-Aug-19 08:16 PM
@wackydeli Do something that'll get them criminal charges since as the regular consumer they simply cannot do anything at all? HMM (edited)
Nicole 02-Aug-19 08:16 PM
Finally! After ten thousand years I'm free. Time to watch some silly shenanigans go on while I take a break from working on my own project.
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 08:19 PM
@Moderator
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nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 08:19 PM
@nonplayercat the patreon was not intended as a kickstarter or anything like that, it was mostly for fun updates, behind the scenes, tutorials and stuff like that
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oops I atted myself lol
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A Venti Bear 02-Aug-19 08:19 PM
@nonplayercat I'm actually curious to know how this has all played out since the EGS exclusivity news was delivered. I didn't even know this game existed 30 minutes ago, and saw a few posts where people disagreed with the way the announcement was delivered and the criticism was handled. Is the backlash really that bad? Has it affected you two mentally? Any regret that you went about it the way you did? Has it cimented your decision to sign up with EGS or shaken your resolve? Or does it seem worse than it is and the ship is still staying its course, despite possibly alienating patreons and other potential supporters by signing up with a platform they may not have access to and/or choose not to support for personal reasons?
arc 02-Aug-19 08:20 PM
as with almost any drama on the internet, especially related to video games, it definitely seems worse than it is
jacob 02-Aug-19 08:20 PM
@DeathPants yeah! perplamps pinned something about that, third one down most patreons are setup as development support (unlike kickstarter and stuff!) with access to devlogs and what not as an exchange (you're not buying the dancing gifs and stuff) but just as a thank you but since patreon is no longer needed they made that clear as well, and even went the extra step and told anyone who supported that felt they were wronged that they could take a refund which no one has as i understand it (edited)
Ryunocore 02-Aug-19 08:20 PM
People aren't here because of EGS, they're here because of the very unusual blogpost and subsequent Discord drama. Epic signed a deal with the devs, but as far as I'm concerned, no one at Epic wrote the post for them. The problem people have with the post have nothing to do with Epic, and a lot to do with how they took being called toxic and other stuff after being blindsided in a very condescending manner. It would help everybody here if people would stop trying to shift the blame to Epic for how the devs handled the announcement. I'm sure they're adults and can take responsibility for voicing their opinions. There's nothing anyone should be taking up with anyone but them.
Pentore 02-Aug-19 08:20 PM
"We don´t need the money from here on though" "F everyone" - perplamps
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 08:21 PM
@Derek1st, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Derek1st said: i did it boys. completely cancelled everything. i will NOT be rebuying this game when it comes out on steam. they * up. hope their 2 year cushion lasts them forever. they're dead to me. if anything i'll pirate it. maybe not. *** em. i spit on their graves
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nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 08:21 PM
@A Venti Bear of course it has affected us mentally. I regret some of the way we handled it, but mostly I'm surprised about how it was interpreted. I don't think it has alienated many of our existing patrons
Iota 02-Aug-19 08:21 PM
@A Venti Bear perplamps has been very rude to many many people in the recent days since the announcement, he's also claimed they don't apologise, so I wouldn't expect any regrets. Just because some d-wads harass you does not give you the right to be dismissive and condescending to fans. You DEFINITELY have been. (edited)
nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 08:21 PM
@A Venti Bear I'm mostly just sad
spvin 02-Aug-19 08:22 PM
Hi epic chat here to tell you my ten minutes is expired and I will now wait again
Draspur 02-Aug-19 08:23 PM
@nonplayercat I think shutting down the subreddit is the biggest mistake really, let people vent with caveat you won't answer except through discord. Censorship doesn't help anyone. The rest of the drama will blow over
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nottheguitar 02-Aug-19 08:23 PM
Wow! Your blood pressure looks pretty high from all this arguing. You should pre order a copy of Animal Crossing: New Horizons or buy a copy of Animal Crossing: New Leaf for the Nintendo 3ds to lower it.
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nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 08:23 PM
@Draspur thanks for the feedback! (edited)
LuckyBlue 02-Aug-19 08:24 PM
@nonplayercat then what were you and your partner thinking when making that blog post? Gamers don’t like to be stigmatized like that even if it’s just vocal minor
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Medea 02-Aug-19 08:24 PM
rename Ooblets to Oublets and make it an Ouya exclusive pls
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 08:24 PM
The subreddit was getting bombed with toxicity and hate, similar to this server, so
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davids on the loose 02-Aug-19 08:24 PM
I wouldn't say closing the Reddit is censorship. They can vent their frustration plenty of other places. @LuckyBlue That is the funniest thing I think I've ever read. Gamers don't like to be stigmatized LMAO
vinyl sprakle 02-Aug-19 08:25 PM
we don;t like to be ligmatized either lmao
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Zeron 02-Aug-19 08:25 PM
It's a shame how this game... this good game has been a victim to bad practices from the devs. @davids on the loose It IS censorship, just because you can vent frustrations elsewhere doesn't mean they aren't censoring people. Stop... being.... a.... fanboy!
shift 02-Aug-19 08:26 PM
What’s going on by here
Nicole 02-Aug-19 08:26 PM
Can I say that the game looks great? I really like the graphics and mechanics and such. That stuff is pretty rad. PR material could use some work, though.
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Pillow 02-Aug-19 08:27 PM
@nonplayercat I think the big issue is: This situation has spread like wildfire and if there can be a statement or a response to clarify the previous blogpost, its probably the best idea to start strongly considering drafting it soon because this is not going to go away tomorrow.
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 08:27 PM
@Zeron Its really not censorship, you can say what you want, doesn't mean they have to deal with it
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wackydeli 02-Aug-19 08:27 PM
@Zeron while it is censorship, no where in the reddit TOS does it say you have to leave your subreddit open if you’re the moderator and creator.
Hal 9001 02-Aug-19 08:27 PM
Closing the subreddit is one thing. Deleting every single thread criticizing the announcement and discussing anything related to it? People will and have seen it as censorship.
DoZeR 02-Aug-19 08:27 PM
Hahahahahahaha ^
knockty 02-Aug-19 08:28 PM
If I was a 2 person dev team I'd block people who said the things I've been seeing in this discord. Seriously get a grip people.
Xeio 02-Aug-19 08:28 PM
Eh, ignoring Reddit is usually for the best :p
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MoistGoat 02-Aug-19 08:28 PM
Closing the subreddit is no different to a company deleting reviews
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Vetr 02-Aug-19 08:29 PM
Moderating or having any influence over subreddit of your own product never ends good?
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 08:29 PM
I mean, reddit isn't a review website so that's a stretch tbh.
Takun 02-Aug-19 08:29 PM
Think most new invites to the sub are coming from that thread since the subreddit is locked to see how it's being handled 10hrs later
Extaria 02-Aug-19 08:30 PM
If I was a game dev I'd make an open apology
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 08:30 PM
bruh it says repsot. don't do me like that (edited)
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 08:30 PM
@DeathPants, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@DeathPants said: Hot take: Gamer culture is too freaking toxic and should just die. There was bound to be hate towards the decision anyway, think everyone knows that. But I think that bundling everyone that has concerns around using the EGS, be it for security reasons, regional pricing, or the missing features, with the ones that simply hate change and have vitriol towards everything is what's bugging me. I think there's no problem with accepting money from Epic Games, especially since @nonplayercat 's team is now able to eat food for however long without having to worry whether or not they can and make the game in peace. This industry * sucks, and everyone should grab the change to "break the chains" every time they can. But I do think there wouldn't be as much backlash if it wasn't for the blogpost. @Extaria For what lmao
jacob 02-Aug-19 08:30 PM
@Extaria there's a fun old saying that goes "and if you had wheels you'd be a wagon"
Pentore 02-Aug-19 08:31 PM
"Devs show true colors after being handed Epic money" I need more tonedeaf posts from @perplamps , make him write another blog post.
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̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 08:31 PM
starsector is a better game 😮 ( free key if u pm me ) (edited)
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arc 02-Aug-19 08:32 PM
if anything the devs are showing too much patience. if it were my choice i would ban all the people who are like "popcorn.gif lmao" you aren't worth wasting time on
Rks 02-Aug-19 08:32 PM
Excited for the game @nonplayercat ! Can't wait to see what it turns into! ❤
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nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 08:32 PM
Thanks @Rks 😃
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SuperSpud64 02-Aug-19 08:33 PM
Honesty if I had to deal with 1000 Kathy's screaming to speak to the manager I'd have been as terse as perplamps has been.
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spvin 02-Aug-19 08:33 PM
Heyyyy 10 minutes is up what's up guys (edited)
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Iota 02-Aug-19 08:33 PM
@arc thank Christ you're not in charge of PR either
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Ryunocore 02-Aug-19 08:33 PM
Is it gamer culture to not want to be talked down by people selling you a product? Are we going to pretend people aren't just here because of the tone of the message?
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nonplayercat 02-Aug-19 08:33 PM
haha I appreciate the invite @WooperKing and I'm sure it's lovely in there, but I think I've said all I have to say via text
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silveralen 02-Aug-19 08:34 PM
well, I'm not sure galaxy brain takes like "People who donated to our patreon for months and live in an area that epic literally doesn't support are evil entitled GAMERS if they dare pirate our game" can be excused as a tone issue
Russ 02-Aug-19 08:34 PM
I never cared about Epic, It really does not matter to me what store I buy a game from, but you guys stepped in it, walked thru the house, played dance dance revolution and ran around the house again wiping your feet on all the furniture like that saturday night live rick james sketch with your "PR" and lost me as a customer. Anyway hope it works out for you.
Raekai 02-Aug-19 08:35 PM
Just talking about bubble tea in there (or trying to). Same old thing. (edited)
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troubleshot 02-Aug-19 08:35 PM
Voice chat is openly toxic at the moment, id advise putting it on mute
҉ ҉ ҉ 02-Aug-19 08:35 PM
came here from reddit, what a shitshow LMAO slowmode is fun (edited)
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jamestillman 02-Aug-19 08:35 PM
1. Wishing you both the very best dealing with all this. Seems stressful! 2. After things cool down, would you consider doing a blog post about it? I would be very curious to read about your experiences with a phenomenon like this, whether it was anecdotal like "my friends saw people being nasty to me online and they reacted like this" or just data like "our site got a bajillion hits when we announced the EGS decision".
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 08:36 PM
@LuckyBlue, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@LuckyBlue said: Love how this @nonplayercat not answering my question. So much for having * of steel
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DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 08:36 PM
People in the vc were being pretty lame earlier
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davids on the loose 02-Aug-19 08:37 PM
I wouldn't join the voice chat. There are some pretty terrible people in there. Not everyone, but a couple of extra large turds.
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Loczol 02-Aug-19 08:37 PM
heh I wonder why...
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Nicole 02-Aug-19 08:38 PM
I will say I'm here for popcorn but I also am interested in the game. It seems right up my ally and I can enjoy a game even if the artists said some things I don't like. Epic exclusivity doesn't really affect my purchases.
minimme 02-Aug-19 08:38 PM
I think y'all are pouring fuel into a fire for a game the vast majority of you had no stake in two days ago - this conversation has been cyclical for hours and will be cyclical for hours to come. It's getting nowhere, find something better to do and enjoy your day pls
Radil 02-Aug-19 08:39 PM
So, has Epicstore said anything about this? I mean, this is not great PR for them either... Before the "worry about climate change and making the word better instead of being angry at games" point, I didn't even know about Epic's relationship with China and their human rights violation, now it's everything twitter is talking about just to prove the irony of the statement. Anyway, I wish you guys the best, hopefully this all blow over soon and you can keep up at making great games and less than great announcements!
Xeio 02-Aug-19 08:39 PM
@Nicole Same, never heard of it before today. I think it's funny people are complaining about "tone" like they don't blow up at literally every EGS exclusive announcement the exact. same. way.
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knockty 02-Aug-19 08:39 PM
Can't the mods just do a mass ban spree?
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Nintendave 02-Aug-19 08:40 PM
@minimme You're not understanding. This is what they do every week, they want cyclical logic. They feast on it. Today it is Ooblets, last week it was Switch Lite, next week it's Ryan's World Tag Extreme
wackydeli 02-Aug-19 08:40 PM
@Radil why would they say anything? It happens constantly, and they’re doing fine. It’s classic what most people learn as they grow up, you don’t have to say something about everything t. @Iota they have and have responded in the same way they have for over a year in this discord. Can’t help that some people feel they need to get their way about everything. (edited)
SkyShard 02-Aug-19 08:41 PM
Hi I don't know how much it means by this point but I just wanted to send some love towards the developers, I can't imagine how hard it is to have hundreds of people criticizing you at once. Keep on doing what you two think is best for yourselves and the game ❤
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Pentore 02-Aug-19 08:41 PM
Sane responses from @nonplayercat won't do, we need more crazy posts from @perplamps .
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̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈̀҈͎͊᷈҈͎͊᷈҈͊ ,̸̿ ו ף 02-Aug-19 08:42 PM
the CIA is definitely involved
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 08:43 PM
voice chat is pretty epic tbh don't @ me (edited)
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spvin 02-Aug-19 08:43 PM
Y-E-E-T
Iota 02-Aug-19 08:43 PM
"Grow up" is something I really wish the devs would've considered before doing all of this and treating people this way. @wackydeli @SkyShard maybe if they hadn't broad brushed thousands for like 2 days, they wouldn't be getting raked over coals @Pentore that man is no where near equipped to handle this right now, he would make things exponentially worse
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Nicole 02-Aug-19 08:48 PM
I see some of the peeps here recommending bans and honestly, it's alright if you guys wanna ban me. I'm just as culpable as everyone else here. I am trying to be civil, since I think being nasty just to be nasty isn't really going to help things. That being said, I was genuine in my feelings about the game. It looks fun and silly and that's the kind of stuff I need in my life. Definitely will buy the game when I can.
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davids on the loose 02-Aug-19 08:49 PM
@Nicole you're fine compared to many of the people here. Don't take anything personally.
Qud 02-Aug-19 08:50 PM
came for the bad press, staying for cute purple cat
knockty 02-Aug-19 08:50 PM
Can people please think about the two people who are reading what you are saying. everyone makes mistakes but no one deserves this type of abuse, toxiceness and downright rudeness (edited)
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 08:50 PM
Why does Fortnite have a cat woman skin in their game but Smite had to remove a cat woman skin from their game 3 years ago because of Warner Brother's lawsuits. 🤔
SVRKNKR 02-Aug-19 08:51 PM
Hi, I would just like to say that your main problem is that you are catering to a very small audience that could almost be considered your circle of friends, rather than the broader gaming community, which you need to somehow address if you want to broaden the audience for your game and make a bigger profit from it. While for you and your circle exclusivity is not a big deal, it is a very contentious issue within the broader gaming community. A decent amount of your potential customers would probably have a problem with the idea behind exclusivity, and even if you disagree with their opinions, you should not ridicule them. You have to expect that a move like EGS exclusivity would bring you exposure, and negative one at that. You should have been prepared to deal with the backlash in a more diplomatic way instead of preemptively lashing out at would-be critics. That way you could have minimised the backlash from the announcement while reaping the benefits of the exposure that this announcement brings.
silveralen 02-Aug-19 08:51 PM
@Kev???! actually perpelerple literally said that as well
Arx 02-Aug-19 08:52 PM
@Nintendave fnite had a Thanos mode. WBros likes the publicity
Koala 02-Aug-19 08:53 PM
So the devs take fat stacks in exchange for practically nothing while knowing the fans aren't going to like it. Then they turn around and insult the fans calling them entitled while they take off with the money? Gee I wonder why people are upset? Isnt it more entitled to think you can just take the money and run with no apologies?
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jacob 02-Aug-19 08:53 PM
@SVRKNKR while your advice is surely invaluable, flawed human emotions and honest thoughts (even if they aren't your favorite words) are always more appreciated than calculated marketing techniques to profit off of outrage this server is enormous and to misrepresent the ooblets community as a circle of friends is a bit silly i think a fair amount of hateful individuals here have rightly earned 'ridicule' (if you can even call it that) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA6XvoDUIAAdMH-?format=jpg (edited)
Draspur 02-Aug-19 08:53 PM
Patreon never listed the game as a reward? People are responsible for their own money, grow up @Koala
TucanSam 02-Aug-19 08:55 PM
I don't think I've seen any patreon contributtor actually complain yet. It's nice y'all are worried for us, but none of us are upset about the patreon.
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jamestillman 02-Aug-19 08:56 PM
There's a post on the front page of Reddit in the US that mentions that the Patreon rewards don't include the game. I wonder if that's where a lot of the confusion is coming from. I back a few different devs on Patreon and the closest I've seen to a-game-as-a-reward is early access to an alpha build.
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 08:56 PM
@Iota, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
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@Iota said: @jacob obviously NOT. If they were, people wouldn't be **. And they weren't just honest posts like you claim. Perp literally insulted my parent's parenting ability for asking how to buy the game
Pentore 02-Aug-19 08:57 PM
A special kind of patreon backers everyone dreams having.
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hmaon 02-Aug-19 08:57 PM
parents gonna parent
neon 02-Aug-19 09:00 PM
redditors
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Goodra 02-Aug-19 09:01 PM
I think Reddit is a great website, good place to find info and news about all sorts of stuff. ^^
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 09:02 PM
repsot
ComradeRay 02-Aug-19 09:02 PM
that second image is so low quality jesus
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shift 02-Aug-19 09:03 PM
Literally can’t read it
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 09:03 PM
no swearing
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 09:03 PM
@Koala, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Koala said: @Draspur Lol is "grow up" a meme bc you sound like the dev. I didnt say anything about patreon. The devs took the Epic money in exchange for exclusivity which is no work for them. Free cash. In exchange for * off gamers. Something you can only do with a straight face if you unironically hate gamers. Which they clearly do. They could have been paid by their customers like any legit business. Instead they cashed in and gave us the finger. They admitted they prefer to not care about us at all.
SVRKNKR 02-Aug-19 09:03 PM
@perplamps @nonplayercat I get that you dislike what the ''anti-epic'' crowd is saying and how some users might act, but do you really think it's necessary to respond to these users with so much venom even if they started it first? I would also like to add that it's really not a good idea to clump everyone who disagrees with EGS exclusivity into the ''toxic'' camp. Whether you like it or not, a lot of people who are invested in the gaming industry have a strong, and oftentimes, quite negative opinion of exclusivity. With your actions you are alienating a decent chunk of potential customers
jacob 02-Aug-19 09:04 PM
@silveralen id also like to mention that the times on that first image are several hours apart 😅 seems very much like an attempt to smear with a convo that didnt happen, it wasnt a reply to that (edited)
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wackydeli 02-Aug-19 09:04 PM
What you mean the trolls are telling lies???? @Iota give me links. I’ve been here too. He’s not wrong. No one owes you the game. It’s an unfortunate situation (edited)
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Dave 02-Aug-19 09:05 PM
Hey all, wandered in here from the largest Epic group on steam. I don't think I can post it as the bot in here seems to be pretty militant about cuss words, which is cool. Game is targeted towards a more family friendly demographic. That being said, to the developers, don't talk down to the people who literally kept you eating and working on this project before you accepted Epic's Money Hat.
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Xeio 02-Aug-19 09:06 PM
@jacob The PCGaming reddit mods actually banned a journalist today for calling out that innacuracy, lul
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Iota 02-Aug-19 09:06 PM
Even if you think that screen is dubious, there are PLENTY more which show just how much contempt there was @wackydeli I actually witnessed it firsthand, so you definitely can't hand wave it off One: https://i.redd.it/sbvluqqq7zd31.png Two: https://imgur.com/a/7du1ztj @wackydeli @neon and yet, in your infinite wisdom you fail to realise that wacky hasn't seen these yet or he/she would know what I was talking about (edited)
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yesddd 02-Aug-19 09:07 PM
you're all booty cheeks
neon 02-Aug-19 09:10 PM
look same screencap guises!
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Pentore 02-Aug-19 09:11 PM
Anyone know when are we getting more new @perplamps posts?
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Dabjulmaros 02-Aug-19 09:11 PM
Guys give it a rest. The devs have clearly stated that they no longer need the community, and epic will cover lost sales. Pack it up. No point in discussing any further.
silveralen 02-Aug-19 09:11 PM
@wackydeli @jacob @Xeio https://twitter.com/SZips/status/1157182614626811904 I was in the room, look at the third screenshot in the linked post, he was responding to that, apparently linking to the pictures directly screws up their quality via twitter for some reason, but I'm waiting for the apology on calling me a liar 😄 and Xeio that journalist was apparently absurdly incompetent because, again, see the third screenshot. He was responding to a screenshot of the first message.
Again: The Ooblets team should not be supported if this is their attitude. Image 3 is to show it's not out of context. And nobody was asking for a "free" game. The person clearly indicated they've been a financial supporter of the Patreon for months. These devs are scum.
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 09:13 PM
Surprised Total Gaming Network is still around
hmaon 02-Aug-19 09:13 PM
Nah, there's still a supportive community ♥ (edited)
nonosie 02-Aug-19 09:13 PM
Those are manipulated screenshots!!!!!!!!!!! Obviously the work of gamergaters and gaymerz™ that hate indie developers. Anyway to this point is just dumb to continue the arguing. Just ban all the trolls, make the server private and wait the “controversy” to call down. Unless...
shift 02-Aug-19 09:14 PM
We put our minecraft beds together?
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Koala 02-Aug-19 09:14 PM
The devs took the Epic money in exchange for exclusivity which is no work for them. Free cash. In exchange for making gamers angry. Something you can only do with a straight face if you unironically hate gamers. Which they clearly do. They could have been paid by their customers like any legit business. Instead they cashed in and gave us the finger. They admitted they prefer to not care about us at all. @Draspur Didn't say anything about patreon.
The Boss 02-Aug-19 09:15 PM
alright the deal is off, I can't take this anymore...
Paytawn 02-Aug-19 09:15 PM
i wonder what gamers are gonna get angry about next week
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Iota 02-Aug-19 09:16 PM
@silveralen so it wasn't as dubious as these wonderful people would like to claim. Fantastic: https://mobile.twitter.com/SZips/status/1157182614626811904/photo/3 @Nintendave @neon @wackydeli Honestly, this is competitively bad public relations.
SuperSpud64 02-Aug-19 09:16 PM
You cracked the code. It's not like the vast majority of indie studios either fail or only manage to publish one game and then fail. Taking a deal for financial security is totally to own the gamers™.
Dave 02-Aug-19 09:16 PM
Also, you really probably don't want to touch the epic launcher with a ten foot pole, or a twenty foot pole. They have almost zero account security. The "official" epic games reddit is generally filled with, hey this launcher don't work. And, hey my account was hacked and I lost everything and their customer service is just not helpful. Also people trying to figure out how to recoup tons of lost money because of Epic's absolutely deplorable business tactics. Fun fact! They don't care about their consumers. I had been interested in this game, now... well... nah bruh. Also, totally black listing this developer. Not because they took the less then epic deal. But because of how they talk to people and dismiss legitimate concerns. That isn't so great. I'm gonna bail now, and with these parting words... to the developers directly. Go and have relations of an intimate nature with an irate fowl you pretentious ingrates. the ten minute timer sucks as well >_> (edited)
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arc 02-Aug-19 09:17 PM
unreal
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 09:18 PM
@livid, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@livid said: that malaysian **** reads like a copypasta lol
wackydeli 02-Aug-19 09:19 PM
@Iota once again cherry picking messages, I have been here for a long time, and what do you want the devs to do? IOTA PLEASE COME BE OUR PR MANAGER? @silveralen yes you are still a liar. Have fun in your echo chamber! (edited)
silveralen 02-Aug-19 09:21 PM
@Nintendave that was a weird way of saying "oops, looks you weren't lying and my kneejerk reaction to accuse you of such to protect a dev whose been behaving in an atrocious manner made me look like an idiot" Also still waiting on that apology for falsely accusing me of lying @wackydeli @jacob
neon 02-Aug-19 09:21 PM
@Iota nice mobile twitter link from a literal who.
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 09:23 PM
@silveralen what are you even talking about? lmao Was wondering why everyone was posting that message without the full context. Perplamps is responding to the dude who posted the image. //"clearly very short sighted people in the dev team here, its not just a mild inconvenience for some people let me remind you about this guy who posted earlier" (edited)
Extaria 02-Aug-19 09:25 PM
This game looks cool but if only the devs and it's supporters weren't shills for money handouts, not fair admins don't get timed (edited)
perplamps 02-Aug-19 09:26 PM
@Beef Wellington ♫ like I said, I'll be happy to respond to any questions or concerns you want to outline if you send them to my email at perplamps@gmail.com
open offer to anyone
Iota 02-Aug-19 09:26 PM
@wackydeli This is cherrypicking? https://mobile.twitter.com/SZips/status/1157182614626811904 You are delusional... Your support of these pretentious condescending people also speaks volumes. @neon you have clearly drunk the Kool aid at this point. You guys are lost if you're defending this. It doesn't matter who the heck posts it, what matters is the dev addressing people. Who treats fans like this? He shouldn't have responded like THAT, period. Even if he was responding to an image link that's no way to talk to your fans, your consumers.
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 09:26 PM
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Donkey Ollie 02-Aug-19 09:27 PM
That's kinda sad
Kumi 02-Aug-19 09:27 PM
@Venom Now you have to wait 10 minutes to say what you wanted to say 🙄
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DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 09:28 PM
you have clearly drunk the Kool aid at this point. You guys are lost if you're defending this. It doesn't matter who the heck posts it, what matters is the dev addressing people. Who treats fans like this? https://ooblets.com/images/flossing-good.mp4 (unironically a v good floss) (edited)
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Hal 9001 02-Aug-19 09:29 PM
I’ll give them credit that they’re willing to work things out over this. Inversely though, it shouldn’t have gotten this bad to begin with.
wackydeli 02-Aug-19 09:30 PM
@silveralen I owe you nothing. The devs do not OWE ANYONE A SINGLE THING. You either take the product, or you don't. What is hard to understand about that? I was also there when perlamps said it. I may not agree with how everything has been handled, but it has definitely been handled better than I would. @Iota You keep posting the same 3 images and linking to the same guys twitter. No offense, but that's the definition of cherrypicking. (edited)
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silveralen 02-Aug-19 09:32 PM
@wackydeli you were there for that.... which is why you called me a liar for posting a screenshot of it and claimed he wasn't responding to that post? Despite being there when he was... responding to that post? (edited)
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The Red Team Is Online 02-Aug-19 09:32 PM
If you accept money on patreon your patrons are you share holders and you do in fact owe them something as you would owe to any other funding comitee (edited)
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neon 02-Aug-19 09:32 PM
@lota#5206 I don't drink kool aid, awfully for you. i'm more into teas and water
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 09:33 PM
@The Red Team Is Online they get the rewards that they pay for. What are you on about? Also that's absolutely different from share holders
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Coty 02-Aug-19 09:34 PM
CLIMATE
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Taylor 02-Aug-19 09:35 PM
@The Red Team Is Online yeah and all the things that they owe to the patrons is listed in the tiers. No free game is listed in any of the tiers. And the devs have talked about how if any supporter wants a refund they can get one.
Maggot_ff 02-Aug-19 09:35 PM
I'm basically running out of popcorn at this rate.
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TucanSam 02-Aug-19 09:35 PM
No @???!!!???
PassTheNachos 02-Aug-19 09:36 PM
🇸 🇭 🇺 🇹 😳 🇲 🇪 😳 🆙 😳 🇩 🇦 🇩 🇩 🇾
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knockty 02-Aug-19 09:38 PM
Me at the way some people are acting towards two people making the game they've always wanted to make https://tenor.com/view/hopeless-disappointed-ryan-reynolds-facepalm-embarrassed-gif-5436796 (edited)
nonosie 02-Aug-19 09:38 PM
maek.
MightyFineIncredible 02-Aug-19 09:38 PM
Not trying to be rude here, but since the dev is being kind of an a**, I really see no reason to play nice here. Welp, I'm glad I didn't waste money on this "game" LOL. Scummy devs seem to be exposing themselves really easily these days - have fun selling your garbage on inferior chinese spyware platform that doesn't even allow user reviews. Can't wait to support Toby Fox and Studio FOW (more than I already have), since those devs are actually friendly and pro-consumer. Then again, the dev of this game unironically uses buzzwords like "entitled gamers", so even if this wasn't platform locked I wouldn't be missing anything anyway. Funny how clueless journos always find a way to blame the "toxic gamers", never the "toxic developers". Well, this is the media we're talking about, they're out of touch with reality enough as is, so not a surprise really. ^It's also funny how anti-consumer apologists like @wackydeli say things like "The devz don't owe u a thing!" Like, excuse me? I'd like to imagine that the devs DO owe something to the people that allow them to make games for a living in the first place. You do understand that biting the hand that feeds you isn't the smartest course of action, right? Again, consumers/fans are the people that allow you to operate IN THE FIRST PLACE, but sure, by all means keep believing that you don't owe us a thing. Not insulting your community actually nets you more money in the end, who would've guessed!? E: Nice reactions, it's almost like I'm right. 💤 E2: @Paytawn You're welcome! Be sure to use it when other devs pull shit like this. That'd ought to put them in their place. It does warm my heart that something I wrote will be used in the future. (edited)
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Datguyoverthere 02-Aug-19 09:40 PM
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 09:40 PM
Toby Fox made Undertale by himself
wackydeli 02-Aug-19 09:40 PM
@MightyFineIncredible I have been a patreon supporter for over a year, I have not expected a single thing in return. They owe me nothing. They owe you nothing, either buy the game or don't. I don't buy Rockstar games because they have a ridiculous crunch culture. Lots of people, myself included, don't buy games from EGS. I will purchase the game when it comes to steam. How does that make me annti consumerist? (edited)
vitogesualdi 02-Aug-19 09:40 PM
Hey Ooblets guys! You're kings. I love it.
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Paytawn 02-Aug-19 09:41 PM
ty mightyfine for the copypasta
hmaon 02-Aug-19 09:41 PM
as a patreon supporter I'd just like to take this opportunity to reaffirm that they owe me nothing beyond the posts I've already received. I didn't sign up for cat photos so unfortunately I'm not owed any of those. (edited)
Kumi 02-Aug-19 09:42 PM
@MightyFineIncredible The dev was only being a jerk to people telling him what platform to put their game on and using it as an excuse to pirate the game. Patrons made donations, not investments in the company. They don't have say in what happens to it or what decisions they make, period.
noellekiq 02-Aug-19 09:42 PM
patrons were never promised anything (aside from some merch and whatnot) and they knew that when signing up. i think most fans of the game series don't mind downloading a free launcher even if it's just to play the game they're waiting for. reviews and whatnot aren't relevant for everyone that wants to buy ooblets anyway. can't really respond to anything else you said as there was nothing of value besides yea, a lot of people are toxic, especially the communities that have raided the server just because they hate EGS and never would have cared about the game anyway.
The Boss 02-Aug-19 09:42 PM
vito go smoke more bath water from a gamer gurl, I'm gonna buy more games Half-Life 3 exclusive on the EPIC GAMES STORE
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The Red Team Is Online 02-Aug-19 09:43 PM
Well it's a moral discussion isn't it, the people funding the project have every right to want a stake in how it's being run and have a right to be listened to (or at least not be insulted for attempting to be heard) when it goes in a direction they don't like, crowd funding is a nice alternative to a publisher but it shouldn't be seen as a get out of jail free card for being accountable to anyone. I don't have a problem with the game being on the epic store but the contemptuous tone and belligerence of the response to criticism shows an entitlement to the crowd funded money that if you showed towards a publisher would not have gone well for you. I started off that article agreeing with the devs then every paragraph of sugar coated contempt for the consumer in there made my skin crawl. Of course patrons don't have a "legal" right to the game, but it is a relationship based on a certain level of trust and has been embraced as an alternative to the rigid system of publisher and dev, it's when that trust is breached that that system becomes less tenable in the future. Ignoring the subtle implicit agreements and expectations when someone funds you over patreon and taking a hard by the contract approach is pretty text book anti-consumer behaviour, as is pretending that people are claiming a legal right to something as opposed to an ethical one. Responding to "I OUGHT to have some say in this as I'm paying your bills" with "You have no LEGAL right to my game fuck off" is pretty willfully disingeous since those are two completly different conversations. (edited)
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NaCl 02-Aug-19 09:46 PM
wait backers didn't get a copy of the game?
lydocia 02-Aug-19 09:46 PM
Nope, that was never in any of the tiers (not even the €100 ones)
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silveralen 02-Aug-19 09:48 PM
People seem to be struggling with the idea that making a game inaccessible to someone so interested in the project they put forward money to help get it off the ground is kind of a jerk move, even if said person wasn't explicitly owed it. The devs obviously can and should do what ever they want, but at the same time they should probably be able to exercise a basic level of empathy for their supporters and not actively belittle said supporters. Which the devs have utterly failed to manage in any capacity.
PsychoApeMan 02-Aug-19 09:48 PM
@perplamps I notice a few times through the thread you saying something along the lines of "regretting not realizing that people would read the announcement who don't understand your tone", which seems reminiscent of (although even less empathetic than) the stereotypical politician's line, always "I regret if offense was taken" and never "I apologize if I offended you." Just wondering - as someone who was enormously interested in playing your lovely looking game and who also happens to have a number of objections to Epic (and therefore is lumped into your categorization of anyone who doesn't want to use Epic as a pathetic entitled baby) - are you intentionally making a point of not apologizing, or is it just your instinctive defensive response? And, to be clear - everybody makes mistakes, I feel bad for the two of you - but in the original post, and in everything you've posted since, I've not once seen you say anything remotely close to an apology... It seems such a poor choice, it is the logical first step in reconciliation, and every time you post a new response without doing so it seems like you really are doubling down on the "If you took offence I couldn't care less." attitude. EDIT: Damn, just saw your post saying anyone who doesn't use EGS definitely wouldn't like Ooblets. Such a disappointing attitude. (edited)
A Venti Bear 02-Aug-19 09:48 PM
@noellekiq They may never have cared about the game before this drama started but now they do, and how the devs react to the drama may very well decide whether or not they decide to keep interest in the game. To discredit those people simply because of the circumstances with which they heard of the game's existence is likely to harm the success of said game, as word-of-mouth is a powerful thing. (edited)
DorkOrca 02-Aug-19 09:50 PM
How many times do they have to say they're not apologizing lmao
wackydeli 02-Aug-19 09:51 PM
6546417494 times
Sunslammer 02-Aug-19 09:51 PM
epic bad
RhinoInAHat 02-Aug-19 09:54 PM
How many people do they have to blatantly insult for people to realize the devs simple aren’t that great. They have only acted childish and will only continue to do so. Their response to backlash was basically “we got our money, shut up babies” dismissing any argument brought up. They are wrapped up in this idea that just because it had a large amount of supporters (some of which aren’t able to purchase or play the game now) that they feel they can’t do any wrong and they will take any step they can to ensure that they don’t have to apologize. @PsychoApeMan
PorknCheese 02-Aug-19 09:54 PM
Everyone who doesn't like the game or it being on Epic just get your programming hands ready. 8-) I mean DONT make scripts! Bad boys!
wumo 02-Aug-19 09:54 PM
is it guaranteed that the game will never come out on steam? or is it still in the air
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 09:55 PM
Would assume they are under NDA
The Boss 02-Aug-19 09:55 PM
coming to steam late 2023
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nonosie 02-Aug-19 09:56 PM
Man, is the Ooblets server, populated by the Ooblets fans and moderated by the Ooblets team: They pin the messages, they ban the users, and obviously, they decide if the people here are TRUE AND HONEST FANS or entitled, crying gamergaters based in if you decide to ignore concerns/support the team or go with the epic bad/condescension thing. Even if, let's say, the horrible gamers try to be civil, the response is going to be some really cool baby emojis reaction. (Yeah I want some too). I said baby emojis. (edited)
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The Red Team Is Online 02-Aug-19 09:57 PM
The whole crowd funding model (This being a prime example) just falls apart from the devs being like "Hey guys donate to my patreon and we can work towards this cool new game together without all that nonsense like contracts and any formal obligation to give you a tangible return on your investment UwU" Then throwing a tantrum when people trust that implicit relationship and come back with "Um excuse me sweetie we don't have any written agreement saying I owe you a game" Dealing with angry crowds is like the number one risk of accepting a crowd funding model, whoever is paying you will demand things from you. If they spoke to big wig corporate publishers this way they'd have had the intellectual property on their game revoked by now and given to another studio. Power relationship is the other way around with crowd funding and devs do often just show that people are people at the end of the day and will fuck over the person with less power than them when it's convenient for them. (edited)
NaCl 02-Aug-19 09:58 PM
if the backers weren't even going to get a copy of the game, i'd wager they're more...fervent than normal gamers. no wonder the devs aren't worried about acknowledging things suck for some of us now because of this
A Venti Bear 02-Aug-19 09:58 PM
Jim Sterling made a video about the controversial way Perplamps has been dealing with backlash from his EGS announcement, and it was not in a good light. It's gotten nearly 200k views and was posted 9 hours ago. He has over 800k subscribers. That's one video. This is not good PR for your game, regardless of what anyone here thinks about the drama and the people who wind up here to witness or participate in said drama. Hopefully they realize this and make amends once they manage to get their bearings. If nothing else, nonplayercat seems like a nice person. (edited)
wackydeli 02-Aug-19 10:01 PM
Jim Sterling just picks whatever the cool thing to hate on is at the moment and makes a video or write an article. He's done it forever, and people love him for it. Destructoid got good once he left. Never cared for the guy because of all the drama he surrounds himself with.
hmaon 02-Aug-19 10:01 PM
@wumo I think it may be out on steam later at some point? maybe? possibly? That's the impression I had for some reason. (edited)
Goodra 02-Aug-19 10:04 PM
d'awww
lydocia 02-Aug-19 10:04 PM
Are you guys reading this, too? https://steamcommunity.com/app/593150/discussions/
Ooblets - FeaturesStart life in a little rundown farm that you'll cultivate, improve, and customizeCustomize your character's clothing, hair style, and general lookHave dance battles with wild ooblets and fellow ooblet trainersExplore a variety of locations across Oob, all wi...
Ayara 02-Aug-19 10:05 PM
Ooblets looks like a gorgeous game, but its developers seem like pretentious bigots, so I would not buy the game on any store. I'd not fault any developer for taking Epic's cash, but being so pompous and insulting to a community that's supported you is pretty slimy. I wish people would stop excusing away criticism with words like "toxic" and "entitled", but it's unreasonable to expect everyone to have integrity. The way that this announcement was handled was really poor, and the fact that people like perplamps seem to lack the backbone to own up to making a mistake really reeks. Nobody is beyond criticism, and I can't stand people who act like it's impossible that they might have made a mistake.
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Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 10:05 PM
@Potatobird, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Potatobird said: It boggles my mind how people make such a big deal about just the tone of one blog post. They're bad at PR, ok, aren't there just two of them? Why is that such a big problem? They stepped on your gamer ego a little more than they were likely planning to. But people don't generally seem to have a problem with them for the actual decision/deal, because it just made sense for them to do and anyone in their position would have done the same. So that means that everyone is THIS * off over *a little bit of condescension? I guess? Really?* So * off that they would NEVER buy the game now. They hope it fails. The devs must be terrible people. How dare they mess with Gamers. It's ridiculous and too many people are overreacting. Well there's my 2 cents. Good luck y'all
EastCoastGhost 02-Aug-19 10:06 PM
Doesn't look like my kinda game, but if you're serious about playing/supporting the devs, what launcher you start the game with shouldn't stop you
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 10:06 PM
@Potatobird there was nothing else for a lot of people to be fake mad about for a couple of days. They'll move onto the next thing like clock work. It's something they continually do near the weekends
Nicole 02-Aug-19 10:08 PM
I should say that I did come after the Jim Sterling story but more so because the game looked fun. And because I knew a storm was coming. That being said, those that came from Jim should know that Jim probably isn't happy that people are raiding the Discord to be awful.
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Kumi 02-Aug-19 10:08 PM
@Ayara I mean he stated his opinion in the blog post that the EGS stuff wasnt a big deal and people were pretty bigoted about that
silveralen 02-Aug-19 10:09 PM
I'm still blown away by "we owe the people who have been supporting us for months on patreon absolutely nothing, not even basic politeness, go away you entitled monsters". They really do seem to think they could've landed this deal with no help from anyone else, that the people who took an interest and shared it about and helped fund it weren't a part of that at all
TwerkSwimmer_IV 02-Aug-19 10:09 PM
@Nicole same here and I agree the game looks awesome
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 10:10 PM
Devs are bigots for being mean to gamers is a hot take
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Pentore 02-Aug-19 10:11 PM
"Devs are bigots..." - Jpeg
The Boss 02-Aug-19 10:11 PM
This game it's gonna be the next big thing, bigger than pokemon, digimon, ni no kuni, keep supporting the patreon they need that change money
RhinoInAHat 02-Aug-19 10:11 PM
No it’s not
Chrispo 02-Aug-19 10:12 PM
You know I wouldnt mind the epic store exclusivity if it weren't for the fact its online only(living in buttfunk no where with wifi as good as a potato) and all kinds of other shady stuff like putting games on sale without notifying devs and not to mention the thing being a supposed malware. I dunno I don't blame the epic exclusivity deal it helps funds the game and gets more of the revenue though seeing this drama happen perhaos sales sadly may dip in the pc department but thats just a hypothesis
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 10:13 PM
@Inflectus, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@Inflectus said: Off-topic, but in an ironic turn of events, I imagine this bad publicity will at the very least inflate the server size. It isn't for the right reasons, and most aren't really people you want active on your server for what they're here for, but I highly doubt everyone who joined to talk bad on the game or spectate will leave. ****, some will simply forget. 😅 I do hope this whole thing blows over sooner than later, but I haven't seen this chat die down in the past 12 hours or so, so uh... doubt.
Iota 02-Aug-19 10:16 PM
@Jpeg this PR being lauded as anything but crap-tier is a hotter take (edited)
morgan 02-Aug-19 10:16 PM
can someone please explain to me why so many people are using the term "gamers" as if "gamers" are a group of people who do nothing but whine and complain? I'm genuinely confused because aren't we all gamers? We all enjoy playing video games so we're all gamers. Also, there's nothing wrong with being upset about the EGS deal or the blog post; there's a lot wrong in this whole situation. I just really don't get why we choose to call people who want to voice their actual concerns "gamers".
Ayara 02-Aug-19 10:16 PM
@Kumi People being bigoted doesn't give you the right to be a bigot. That's not a very mature way to behave, and pompously dismissing people's opinions is bigoted in the first place. @Jpeg I think you should look up the definition of the word bigot
Potatobird 02-Aug-19 10:18 PM
We are all gamers, but we're not all Gamers™ Gamer culture has a toxicity problem in general. The toxic ones are generally the Gamers™ to which people are referring. I don't think anyone believes that ALL or even most gamers are Gamers™
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TwerkSwimmer_IV 02-Aug-19 10:19 PM
man they really took the whole 'bad publicity is still publicity' thing to a whole new level...
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draktok 02-Aug-19 10:20 PM
These devs suck butthole
Kaitou 02-Aug-19 10:20 PM
so what's the tea?
Medea 02-Aug-19 10:20 PM
bubble tea. @seemaq to suffer. (and educate people like you about bubble tea!) (edited)
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 10:20 PM
why are we still here
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 10:20 PM
just to suffer
chralmus 02-Aug-19 10:21 PM
Just to suffer NotLikeThis mgd flashbacks
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Kumi 02-Aug-19 10:21 PM
@silveralen I'll admit some more "Thank you"s and "I'm sorry"s in the blogpost probably would've been helpful. @Chrispo It's not malware. They pulled locally stored unprotected data from users' Steam installation. You can debate the morality of that but I wasn't angered by it enough to dismiss the launcher @morgan "gamer" lately has become a sort of derogatory term, sometimes. It doesn't mean what you think it means in certain contexts. @Ayara This just sounds like an endless cycle of people getting their feelings hurt and lashing out. (both parties) @TwerkSwimmer_IV You should watch Gillette commercials @Kumi Dang you a cool dude
PsychoApeMan 02-Aug-19 10:21 PM
@seemaq Because even in the face of tactless announcements and EGS exclusives, life stubbornly persists.
Jpeg 02-Aug-19 10:22 PM
@Pentore @Ayara sorry it's unclear but I was quoting someone else who said that, my bad.
Blibber BOT 02-Aug-19 10:23 PM
@The Red Team Is Online, hi i deleted a message from you because it looked RUDE but what do i know im a robut - try to keep chat PG
@The Red Team Is Online said: The problem is good faith feedback and attempts by the community to reach out to the developers being lumped in with trolls and gamer gaters. The siege mentality of the devs is to be hones,t understandable and you don't know what it's like to feel that way until you've been under the lens of public scrutiny HOWEVER, if all the trolls dissapeared then the devs would be left with nothing but good faith criticism they'd suddenly not have some mysterious troll threat to hide behind as the reason for ignoring it, so from some perspective the relationship is symbiotic, trolls get to get their rage * and they act as a disctraction for the target to avoid answering for any legitimate issues.
LordDon 02-Aug-19 10:24 PM
@morgan gestures at the entire discord
Coty 02-Aug-19 10:26 PM
CLIMATE CHANGE . CHINA
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redfalcon 02-Aug-19 10:26 PM
hello
Ayara 02-Aug-19 10:27 PM
@Kumi Doesn't have to be an endless cycle, that's just silly. It's really not hard at all to just not be a bigot.
morgan 02-Aug-19 10:27 PM
Thanks @Kumi and @Potatobird for answering! I understand it's a meme and used to call out actual toxic people, but it's a little overused nowadays... and still used to call out people talking about their actual concerns.
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Iota 02-Aug-19 10:28 PM
@Ayara https://m.imgur.com/gallery/U8e38EI I think ayara is gone (edited)
The Boss 02-Aug-19 10:28 PM
The game store page is up! go and buy it now! https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/product/ooblets-GOTY/home
Medea 02-Aug-19 10:30 PM
I was going to ask how there was a GotY edition already
PsychoApeMan 02-Aug-19 10:31 PM
@morgan Honestly - because when people are different or disagree with us, we want to simplify their motivations. Either: - people object because a of a complex series of factors, many of which might be well outside of our personal experience and understanding or: - people object because moronic-toxic-entitled-neckbeard-basement-dwelling-babies. The second is much simpler to digest, and doesn't require questioning the superiority and objective accuracy of our own opinion and perspective. And, better yet, justifies immediately dismissing them out of hand.
Kumi 02-Aug-19 10:32 PM
@Ayara#2607 I mean you can say that but.. If it weren't hard it wouldn't be so easy for everyone to be doing it @Medea Game of the YEET
Extaria 02-Aug-19 10:33 PM
Did they thanos snap vc? O O F (edited)
seemaq 02-Aug-19 10:33 PM
@Extaria most likely @carlossey egs (edited)
carlossey 02-Aug-19 10:33 PM
oh ok thanks (edited)
Kaitou 02-Aug-19 10:33 PM
The Epic games deal.
_jell0 02-Aug-19 10:34 PM
Just wanna say what I heard from Reddit was terrible PR from you guys. That's all. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. (edited)
Nintendave 02-Aug-19 10:36 PM
People are basically mad at a couple of things, but they keep repeating them at different hours, so it's kind of become annoying to talk about and then Coty just talks about global warming
Coty 02-Aug-19 10:36 PM
@Nintendave maybe the dev shouldnt call people entitled and then bring up CLIMATE CHANGE of all things lmao - if they actually cared about climate change and werent just shitting on their potential consumers they wouldnt be in this mess. its fun to watch. 🍿 as if climate change is even real LMAO pfffttahahahhahahhaha (edited)
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redfalcon 02-Aug-19 10:37 PM
I don't know, outside of the game itself, i feel there as been a lot of bad pr.Also is slow mode necessary. I have seen more active discords without it.Ohterwise The art is a bit to cartoonish cutesy to me, but I guess some may like that
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Donkey Ollie 02-Aug-19 10:37 PM
Climate change 👁 👄 👁
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Nicole 02-Aug-19 10:37 PM
If Slow Mode wasn't active right now, the chat would be absolutely hard to follow.
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Iota 02-Aug-19 10:38 PM
Climate change 🌏 🌍 🌎 🌊 ⚡ 🌩 ⛈ 🌧 🔥 Climate change is Def real btw. Humanity is going to burn and or freeze depending (edited)
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seemaq 02-Aug-19 10:44 PM
climate change doesn't even matter, we should stop using plastic 🐢
carlossey 02-Aug-19 10:44 PM
climate change is real. Just yesterday a place that used to have forests in it is now a building. We have to stop this climate change before all the forests in the world turn into urban metropolises
Some_Weeb 02-Aug-19 10:45 PM
Why is this even a discussion?
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Paytawn 02-Aug-19 10:45 PM
we should destroy the ess jay dub yuhs that are to blame to this attack on gamers
InvisibleDragon 02-Aug-19 10:46 PM
by that logic you guys should all stop gaming now
Kumi 02-Aug-19 10:46 PM
He brought up climate change to downplay the importance of them switching platforms. It was an attempt at a joke. Some found it funny, others didn't.
Coty 02-Aug-19 10:46 PM
@Kumi are you saying CLIMATE CHANGE is a joke????? look at this alt-righter over here guys
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Iota 02-Aug-19 10:48 PM
You know what we should really do? Anytime anyone has a problem with you or your actions tell them that it's wasted energy to yell at you when they should be focusing on C l i m a t e c h a n g e https://media.tenor.com/images/7d7c6b82a95d12d5686bb1abc0863d08/tenor.gif
MaidenOfTheMain 02-Aug-19 10:50 PM
Thanks for making me decide to fund a climate change organization rather than spend my time with an indie game. :D