<2023-01-03T10:18:31.000Z> chudbere: Hey there! So I keep hearing you were in some sort of cult?
<2023-01-03T10:25:34.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Hi there, yeah, I was in a recovery cult. Jim was gonna get me on on his last stream but boomered it up after like 5 calls. Oh well ahaha.
<2023-01-03T10:35:00.000Z> chudbere: I'd love to hear more about this, what is a recovery cult?
<2023-01-03T10:36:02.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I sent him a reply saying if he ever does want to do a call in like people are suggesting, I'm keen. Otherwise I might just make a YouTube video or do a live stream for the Sweetie Squad who was interested.
<2023-01-03T10:36:34.000Z> chudbere: Well I stream and would be happy to have you on
<2023-01-03T10:37:11.000Z> chudbere: I'm streaming with Gator and Randbot Thursday but this might be better as a solo stream
<2023-01-03T10:37:17.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Well, all cults have some goal or point of I guess, worship. I didn't really know much about how cults work until I got out of this one and everybody was asking me what the fuck happened and actually made me aware of how insanely abnormal it all was.
<2023-01-03T10:38:13.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I am a recovering alcoholic and I went to, what I was told was a recovery program, out on a farm. I did not go into it knowing it was a cult and I still denied it for several months after getting out because I was so indoctrinated into thinking it was all well meaning. 
<2023-01-03T10:40:12.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I don't really know Gator or Randbot, I'm not super well versed on the people around Metokur unfortunately. Would be very keen to be though; as I said in my initial donation, having his stuff on my mp3 player kept me laughing through some real hell in there. Before I went in, he also read a donate for my uncle the day he died and got the chat to give a RIP I'd be keen to know more about people he rubs elbows with. 
<2023-01-03T10:40:21.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: RIP*. Meant a lot.** 
<2023-01-03T10:40:41.000Z> chudbere: Oh wow, so I have a little background knowledge into that sort of cult. Have you heard of Synanon?
<2023-01-03T10:41:22.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I have been doing some research since I got out, and I've definitely heard the name but not any more on it. What is it?
<2023-01-03T10:41:56.000Z> chudbere: Synanon was a cult founded by this prominent AA guy, Charles Diedrich 
<2023-01-03T10:42:45.000Z> chudbere: They brought drug addicts into the fold promising them rehab, then kept them for years and stole their possessions
<2023-01-03T10:42:58.000Z> chudbere: One of their main methods was called attack therapy
<2023-01-03T10:43:44.000Z> chudbere: Group sessions where people sat in a circle and yelled obscenities and insults at each other to tear each other down
<2023-01-03T10:55:58.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Hahahaha holy fuck that's near identical
<2023-01-03T10:56:59.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: So instead of attack therapy perse the lineage of like...consequences (they don't say penalties or punishments)
<2023-01-03T10:57:01.000Z> chudbere: His concepts were used in other copycat programs across the country even though synanon doesn't exist anymore
<2023-01-03T10:57:35.000Z> chudbere: Lots of residential programs for "troubled teens" use the same precepts
<2023-01-03T10:58:07.000Z> chudbere: There's a notorious one in Maine called the Elan School that only shut down in the last 10 years
<2023-01-03T10:59:39.000Z> chudbere: I'm guessing they rarely kicked anyone out
<2023-01-03T10:59:51.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I have more stuff and we are doing pretty good shit here so maybe we should just stream this but Peer Review, Phase Discussion and Community Discussion are those attack sessions 
<2023-01-03T11:00:19.000Z> chudbere: Yeah let's do a stream on this just you and me
<2023-01-03T11:00:25.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Peer is 6 chosen residents, Phase is everybody in your phase (approx 12-15) and Community is the whole community, 40ish ppl
<2023-01-03T11:00:38.000Z> chudbere: What's your weekend look like coming up?
<2023-01-03T11:01:13.000Z> chudbere: Yeah I have a ton to talk to you about this, I know a LOT about the Elan School and similar programs 
<2023-01-03T11:01:31.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: In each setting you're all sat in a circle and they get 1hr (peer and phase) or 2hrs (community) to ask you basically whatever the fuck they want and tear you apart mentally and emotionally and if you're not transparent or not seen as being honest you would be voted as such and taken further up the consequence chain 
<2023-01-03T11:01:57.000Z> chudbere: Yeah this sounds just like Elan holy fuck
<2023-01-03T11:02:10.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: They did kick people out but they were given a turnaround with strict instruction to communicate with nobody else other than the TC staff 
<2023-01-03T11:02:37.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Most people in there had no family or were homeless or like me were so at the end of their wits that they saw it as their salvation so they took the turnaround in a heartbeat 
<2023-01-03T11:03:31.000Z> chudbere: Which is re entry to the program
<2023-01-03T11:03:33.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I was kicked out and given a few months turnaround and although I had a safe environment to go to in the meantime I was pretty certain I was going to end up killing myself because I couldn't survive outside or without completing all their lessons. I was fully fucked 
<2023-01-03T11:04:28.000Z> chudbere: I'm really sorry this happened to you
<2023-01-03T11:04:52.000Z> chudbere: Are you available Saturday or Sunday night to talk about it?
<2023-01-03T11:05:37.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Ummm what time zone are you in? 
<2023-01-03T11:05:43.000Z> chudbere: Central
<2023-01-03T11:06:21.000Z> chudbere: I usually start streams around 8 or 9pm after my kids are in bed but if nights are bad I can do a daytime stream instead
<2023-01-03T11:08:37.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: 9pm Sat would be 2pm Sun my time. That should be fine, I am starting a new job tomorrow though, first shift, so I'll have to kind of get a feel for when they want me working. I can keep trying to find a time that works around you though if that doesn't pan out 
<2023-01-03T11:09:17.000Z> chudbere: Sure you just let me know what works for you and we will make it happen
<2023-01-03T11:09:40.000Z> chudbere: I am a stay at home mom so my schedule is flexible
<2023-01-03T11:10:29.000Z> chudbere: I would recommend that you redact your name from anything that you might want to show on stream like paperwork
<2023-01-03T11:13:30.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Awesome, that sounds great. Going to sound kinda gay but do you know if theres any chance Jim will be able to hear it? Like even archived? Bc when I sent the initial donation he like...stopped the stream for a full 5 minutes wanting to know more. And the chat was going ape on his last stream. He wrote a comment here saying he wanted to know more too.
<2023-01-03T11:14:05.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: It sounds lame as fuck but like if I can satiate that interest for him I'd be really happy, because his shit really held me together 
<2023-01-03T11:15:09.000Z> chudbere: He is here on ChudBuds and I will promote the stream and tag him so he knows it's happening
<2023-01-03T11:15:27.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: That's awesome - I managed to go about the most autistic way of asking that. 
<2023-01-03T11:16:25.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I feel this real unease whenever I discuss this stuff and it knocks me right off kilter. I think because I was like, conditioned for so long to talk about it like it was the best thing ever and sacred or whatever 
<2023-01-03T11:17:19.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I find when I have to be concise about this stuff I have to write it bc I still have a weird disconnect when I start dissing it. My brain goes all fucked.
<2023-01-03T11:18:44.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I have to keep reminding myself 2 people I was in the program with are dead and only 2 of approx 50 that I stayed in contact with, are still sober 
<2023-01-03T11:19:18.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Sorry. I'm just verbally vomiting now. Shit did more than a number on me.
<2023-01-03T11:20:55.000Z> chudbere: Oh hon it's okay! 
<2023-01-03T11:22:21.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I think it will be really good to talk to a woman about this as opposed to Jim, because of certain things like...how fucking warped I was emotionally. Some of the emotional rituals and shit. 
<2023-01-03T11:22:35.000Z> chudbere: I can't imagine what you went through. We don't have to talk about it further here in chat if you don't want. That way it will be new territory on the stream when we talk and we can just take our time with it.
<2023-01-03T11:23:09.000Z> chudbere: Or if you need to get some of it out now feel free to talk my ear off here
<2023-01-03T11:23:24.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: He seemed more fascinated about us going without toilet paper and stuff (which did happen), and lots of other really funny stuff. But it was the single most isolating time in my life and I can't really compare it to anything out here.
<2023-01-03T11:24:05.000Z> chudbere: I may not respond super fast sometimes, holding a grumpy baby atm trying to get her to sleep
<2023-01-03T11:25:05.000Z> chudbere: Are you in therapy or anything?
<2023-01-03T11:25:23.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Aww bless. Well I'll take you up on that for sure. You are really nice to talk to. 
<2023-01-03T11:25:56.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Oh you're a trooper. I'm hopeless with babies. Would love one oneday but I seem hopeless with my nieces and nephews haha.
<2023-01-03T11:26:42.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I was, but we moved and I haven't yet established a new clinician let alone psychologist or psychiatrist 
<2023-01-03T11:30:36.000Z> chudbere: What was the name of this cult you were in?
<2023-01-03T11:42:37.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I'd be alright disclosing it to you but I don't know how I'd feel about it going public. I don't know your audience but I censored it all for Metokur's audience because I imagine they would carpet bomb it with memes and trolling and other fuckery
<2023-01-03T11:43:32.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: And while I am at the recognition that it is a bad place I suppose I worry that if it does even manage to help one person, am I like, fucking that up for them?
<2023-01-03T11:44:11.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Clearly it still holds some gay power over me, idk lol. Weird huh
<2023-01-03T11:48:12.000Z> chudbere: Not weird at all
<2023-01-03T11:48:34.000Z> chudbere: But I am curious and wanted to do some research into the place
<2023-01-03T11:48:54.000Z> chudbere: I won't disclose the name of it without your permission
<2023-01-04T12:20:38.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Uhhhhm honestly there isn't a whole lot on it other than a fb page afaik and some youtube videos
<2023-01-04T12:21:05.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I would be willing if you're comfortable, to ask somebody I know to censor the identifying information out of it and share like videos of the place 
<2023-01-04T14:28:42.000Z> chudbere: Absolutely 
<2023-01-04T14:49:45.000Z> chudbere: I am really looking forward to having you on
<2023-01-06T23:03:33.000Z> chudbere: Hey just checking in
<2023-01-06T23:03:50.000Z> chudbere: Does tomorrow night still work for you to do an interview?
<2023-01-07T03:59:23.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Hey I'm so sorry for being out of touch. I live on an island and we had a major power outage. 
<2023-01-07T04:00:10.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I'm not going to be able to do Sunday, I've been rostered on to work, but can I keep you posted on my roster and you keep me posted on yours and we work around that?
<2023-01-07T04:00:17.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Sorry again, thankyou ♡
<2023-01-07T04:13:28.000Z> chudbere: Sure not a problem, let me know the next time you are scheduled off 
<2023-01-07T04:13:41.000Z> chudbere: I'm available pretty much any night
<2023-01-12T13:43:35.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I'm so sorry for the late reply. I'm scheduled off on Monday? For me?
<2023-01-12T13:43:48.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Sunday night ig for you?
<2023-01-12T13:44:15.000Z> chudbere: that might work i will have to get back to you
<2023-01-12T13:47:54.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Thanku so much blessuns
<2023-01-12T13:48:03.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: How are u btw
<2023-01-13T16:54:20.000Z> chudbere: sleepy lol
<2023-01-13T16:54:42.000Z> chudbere: sorry I didn't reply yesterday I was super busy
<2023-01-13T16:55:57.000Z> chudbere: Sunday night could possibly work for me, do you think you could better anonymize those documents you showed me where it still showed part of your name
<2023-01-13T16:56:20.000Z> chudbere: that way if we talk about them on stream I can show them with out potentially doxing you or the group you were in
<2023-01-14T08:32:55.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Yeah I can do that. I guess I just wanted to clarify that they're authentic. If you can vouch that you've seen them uncensored I will censor them. 
<2023-01-14T08:33:14.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Sunday night for you is Monday morning for me right? I think? I have Monday off.
<2023-01-14T09:00:31.000Z> chudbere: Yes I think so. Right now it is 3am Saturday for me
<2023-01-14T09:01:12.000Z> chudbere: I am GMT-6
<2023-01-15T09:45:19.000Z> chudbere: do you still want to try to do an interview tonight? that would be in approximately 17 hours from now, 9PM my time Sunday night
<2023-01-15T13:12:12.000Z> chudbere: If you wanted to shoot for the next time you're off instead that's fine
<2023-01-15T13:13:08.000Z> chudbere: I could use that time to do some more research into similar cults to make the show more informative 
<2023-01-15T13:13:59.000Z> chudbere: Just lmk, I'm in no hurry. And we will get a better audience if I can promote it for a few days in advance 
<2023-01-16T03:44:05.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Ah you're so kind and patient. This new job is keeping me so busy and I love it but I'm constantly exhausted.
<2023-01-16T03:44:36.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I'm so sorry I missed out. I actually get to decide my roster tomorrow, so when works for you? I can ask for a specific day off?
<2023-01-16T03:49:01.000Z> chudbere: hmm okay so what day/time is it right now
<2023-01-16T03:49:08.000Z> chudbere: for you
<2023-01-16T07:26:01.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Its 6pm on Monday for me. You?
<2023-01-16T14:00:18.000Z> chudbere: It was 1:26am Monday when I got that message. So you are about 17 hours ahead of me i think. 
<2023-01-16T14:00:51.000Z> chudbere: so right now it should be 1am tuesday for you
<2023-01-16T14:01:51.000Z> chudbere: take off any day you prefer, if you want to shoot for Friday off (thursday night off my time), or Saturday off (friday night off my time) either one of those will be great
<2023-01-19T06:15:38.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Okay so I'm rostered on every day till Tuesday, but on Tuesday I can ask for any day off I want. Should we look at next my-Friday your-Thursday, or my-Sat your-Fri?
<2023-01-19T12:17:01.000Z> chudbere: Your Saturday my Friday would be great
<2023-01-21T23:06:19.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Okay. On Monday I'll flag it with my boss :) ♡
<2023-01-21T23:06:26.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: How are you btw?
<2023-01-22T00:24:34.000Z> chudbere: doing okay, how about you?
<2023-01-25T07:04:43.000Z> chudbere: were you able to get time off?
<2023-01-26T13:58:30.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Yes! Unless you think another week's notice should be good?
<2023-01-26T13:58:39.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Like for viewerbase?
<2023-01-26T14:21:26.000Z> chudbere: This week is fine, so we are doing your Saturday day/my Friday night?
<2023-01-27T00:23:47.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Yeah! What time are we looking at?
<2023-01-27T01:53:48.000Z> chudbere: 9PM GMT-6
<2023-01-27T02:22:08.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Is this correct?
<2023-01-27T02:29:36.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Also, how long would we be streaming for? 
<2023-01-27T02:30:17.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: And did you have a post advertising the stream or anything for me to RT?
<2023-01-27T02:49:37.000Z> chudbere: yes that time was correct
<2023-01-27T02:49:45.000Z> chudbere: 8:22pm my time was when it came through
<2023-01-27T02:50:08.000Z> chudbere: I haven't made a post yet but I will probably make one in the morning
<2023-01-27T02:50:44.000Z> chudbere: actually I will make a post now, need to make a thumbnail
<2023-01-27T02:50:57.000Z> chudbere: so the stream would start approximately 24 hours from right now
<2023-01-27T02:58:32.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Okay awesome! Thankyou so much. Do you know roughly how long we would be streaming? No big deal, just trying to figure out my movements for the day
<2023-01-27T02:58:51.000Z> chudbere: I stream 2 or 3 hours, but you don't have to stay the whole time
<2023-01-27T02:59:18.000Z> chudbere: we'll do an interview up front then I have some material about other Sobriety-type cults I can share
<2023-01-27T02:59:42.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Sick! I am nervous but excited also. I will have to get onto censoring those images today.
<2023-01-27T02:59:56.000Z> chudbere: would it be best to call this a Sobriety Cult?
<2023-01-27T03:01:51.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I would say "Recovery", but that might be because it was drilled into us that it was a Recovery program in a Therapeutic Community, but I really don't mind. I'm not sensitive over it, and I trust you with whatever you think sounds best
<2023-01-27T03:02:14.000Z> chudbere: were you in there for alcoholism?
<2023-01-27T03:03:13.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Alcohol and benzodiazepines, yeah
<2023-01-27T03:03:21.000Z> chudbere: Gotcha
<2023-01-27T03:05:22.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I have them mostly under control now (sounds like massive cope, I know), but it has nothing to do with the cult. I relapsed pretty hard a few months after leaving. 
<2023-01-27T03:05:37.000Z> chudbere: How's this sound for a description 
<2023-01-27T03:05:40.000Z> chudbere: Tonight I'm sitting down for an interview with CreamKittenCultist, who entered what she thought was a recovery program for addiction--but turned out to be a cult. We'll learn more about what she experienced as well as talk about other similar "sobriety" cults and "troubled teen programs" that have made headlines in recent years. 
<2023-01-27T03:07:09.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I hit a new low; not quite my rock bottom but a very very bad situation. And in this period of time I found out I'd done very minor damage to my liver. 
<2023-01-27T03:07:52.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: It was a wake up call and now paired with stuff I actually want to be present for, I seem to be able to regulate my alcoholism now and I abstain from benzos
<2023-01-27T03:08:17.000Z> chudbere: that's really good to hear
<2023-01-27T03:08:28.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Yeah sure! Sounds good!
<2023-01-27T03:11:00.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Thanks! A lot of people wouldn't really view it as positive since I still do drink socially, however I regulate myself like a normal drinker does now and never go beyond a few drinks. I rarely get very drunk and I never black out. 
<2023-01-27T03:13:58.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: It doesn't sound like a big accomplishment to say "yeah I don't black out or get shitfaced", but that's what I used to do, all day every day. If I wasn't obtaining alcohol I was black out drunk. I have like...years, that I can barely remember because I was blind drunk probably 9 of the 12hrs I was awake. 
<2023-01-27T03:15:04.000Z> chudbere: https://chudbuds.lol/@chudbere/posts/AS3VANUd4MOREdH3jc
<2023-01-27T03:15:12.000Z> chudbere: there's a post to RT
<2023-01-27T03:15:17.000Z> chudbere: do you have discord?
<2023-01-27T03:15:26.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Anyway...sorry about that lol. Kinda spewed a bunch of stuff on you again 
<2023-01-27T03:16:06.000Z> chudbere: hey no worries! I am trying not to ask you a ton of questions here because I don't want to re-tread stuff you've already answered for me here tomorrow night
<2023-01-27T03:21:40.000Z> chudbere: Can you join this discord server? https://discord.gg/nEUYKfCg
<2023-01-27T03:57:30.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I don't mind :) 
<2023-01-27T03:57:38.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Sure, will do
<2023-01-27T04:35:36.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Ahaha sorry I got all flustered, I'm out shopping with some friends and they were doing the whole "moan while your friend is on the phone" thing lmao...
<2023-01-27T04:35:45.000Z> chudbere: lmao no worries
<2023-01-27T04:36:00.000Z> chudbere: btw what streams did you send your superchats to jim on
<2023-01-27T04:36:05.000Z> chudbere: I'd like to find them and clip them 
<2023-01-27T04:36:25.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Ummm I'll find it 
<2023-01-27T04:45:52.000Z> chudbere: okay
<2023-01-27T04:46:07.000Z> chudbere: also what would you like me to call you when we're talking
<2023-01-27T04:46:23.000Z> chudbere: CK?
<2023-01-27T04:50:18.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: https://www.youtube.com/live/EjX_yMM5pDc?feature=share
<2023-01-27T04:53:27.000Z> chudbere: awesome, any idea of approximately how far into superchats he read yours?
<2023-01-27T04:54:35.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Timestamp is 1:01:43
<2023-01-27T04:56:39.000Z> chudbere: perfect
<2023-01-27T04:57:06.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I think I sent another superchat later in response and I can find that too if you need 
<2023-01-27T04:57:33.000Z> chudbere: sure if you want :) but only if you have time
<2023-01-27T04:58:00.000Z> chudbere: what would you like me to refer to you as when we're talking, and we should come up with a fake name for the program too
<2023-01-27T04:58:03.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Yeah CK is fine, or Cream, whatever you're comfortable with 
<2023-01-27T04:58:12.000Z> chudbere: ok
<2023-01-27T04:58:52.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Ummm yeah we can come up with a fake name 
<2023-01-27T04:59:29.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Or we could refer to it as the TC (therapeutic community). That's what we were made to call it in there 
<2023-01-27T04:59:47.000Z> chudbere: that works
<2023-01-27T04:59:52.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Up to you, I'm easy. Also what would you like me to call you?
<2023-01-27T05:00:03.000Z> chudbere: Claire is fine :)
<2023-01-27T05:00:17.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Sweet!
<2023-01-27T05:01:51.000Z> chudbere: What time period were you in this group?
<2023-01-27T05:13:11.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Ummm so I entered at the start of May 2021 and was kicked out in November
<2023-01-27T05:14:31.000Z> chudbere: okay, just trying to write a little introduction for you for the start of the stream
<2023-01-27T05:36:28.000Z> chudbere: how old were you (approximately) when you were in it?
<2023-01-27T06:49:34.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: Sorry I had no reception 
<2023-01-27T06:50:25.000Z> CreamKittenCultist: I was 27
<2023-01-28T00:26:33.000Z> chudbere: Just want to make sure that we are still on for tonight, stream starts in about 2.5 hours
