<2023-01-24T16:46:44.000Z> nachtrabe: ping :) 
<2023-01-24T18:18:48.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: pong :D 
<2023-01-24T20:08:14.000Z> nachtrabe: is this the new gold account? 
<2023-01-24T21:26:13.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: yep
<2023-01-24T21:26:33.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: sapphire forgot to pay for the shortstackran.ch domain xD
<2023-01-27T16:07:46.000Z> nachtrabe: lol :) 
<2023-01-27T17:00:01.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: btw, I tried instantiating my hand written code into python
<2023-01-27T17:00:12.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: and discovered there where some aspects that I had not considered
<2023-01-27T17:00:19.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: so, back to designing xD
<2023-01-27T17:11:06.000Z> nachtrabe: you do the "design on paper" thing? 
<2023-01-27T17:16:56.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: I've done it before in the past, and I am trying to get back in touch with it
<2023-01-27T17:30:29.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: at the very least, when I am designing a drawing, the structure and layout of the program, remain clear, and a failed attempt at instantiating, doesn't leave me with a ruined mess, as often it would when making my outline in the IDE and adding to it
<2023-01-27T17:46:03.000Z> nachtrabe: do you use some kind of engine, or webgl or smth 
<2023-01-27T17:46:24.000Z> nachtrabe: ( it's the vampire survivor thing, i take it? ) 
<2023-01-27T17:54:02.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: yeah
<2023-01-27T17:54:10.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: I am just using python+pygame
<2023-01-27T17:54:19.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: although the design is language agnostic 
<2023-01-27T18:00:08.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: I've got a general loop, and the math for touch and depenedtration written out
<2023-01-27T18:00:32.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: I started to implement it, and realized that I hadn't put thought into the different objects
<2023-01-27T18:00:47.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: or what it means to draw between map space and view space 
<2023-01-27T18:01:24.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: So, I've got a simple entity relationship diagram, and now I need to combine these two into a final design xD
<2023-01-27T18:02:52.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: the balance between adding detail, and not losing the clear overview of the program
<2023-01-27T18:06:41.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: So far, three times, have I fallen into writing code for something I didn't understand
<2023-01-27T18:07:12.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: which just meant, that whole session was just eatin up, pushing code around aimlessly lol
<2023-01-27T18:07:40.000Z> nachtrabe: :) 
<2023-01-27T18:08:19.000Z> nachtrabe: you are using entity component model? ( sounds very interesting i always wanted to check it out properly ) 
<2023-01-27T18:12:14.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: >entity component modelI'm not really using anything formal.The foundation diagram is a list of things that should happen in the main loop.Loop->Input - Keys to Actions->AI - Move all NPC toward player->Player - apply move actions to player entity->Physics - Depenetrate all entities->Draw - Background color->Draw - Entity sprites
<2023-01-27T18:13:42.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: the ERD is something likeMap 1 to many EntitiesView 1 to many EntitiesPlayer 1 to 1 EntityNPC 1 to 1 EntitySprite 1 to many Entities 
<2023-01-27T18:14:13.000Z> nachtrabe: "depenetrate" means, bounce back overlapping areas and calc new inertia vector from it 
<2023-01-27T18:17:19.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: yeah, though I am considering just snapping to the bounding box and not worrying about inertia for such a simple game
<2023-01-27T18:17:45.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: maybe some "constant" knockback from touching 
<2023-01-27T18:21:17.000Z> nachtrabe: the main loop sounds pretty sensible, and it makes problems? 
<2023-01-27T18:21:46.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: the main loop diagram, doesn't address how the objects work together, which is where I got lost in code soup implementing xD
<2023-01-27T18:22:14.000Z> nachtrabe: hmmmm soup :) 
<2023-01-27T18:23:23.000Z> nachtrabe: it's been ages since i tried to write a game from scratch i always got totally lost in graphics programming and never finished anything :) 
<2023-01-27T18:23:26.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: I kept just making assumptions, adding on code, until I realized that I wasn't implementing the objection relationships from a design, but instead I was duck taping adhock design decisions together and hoping their worked in the end xD
<2023-01-27T18:24:04.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: me too, though it wasn't always the gaphics I got lost in 
<2023-01-27T18:24:24.000Z> nachtrabe: > duck taping adhock design decisions togetherthat's how the pros do it as far as i am aware 
<2023-01-27T18:26:14.000Z> nachtrabe: and i actually have a commerical game under my belt ( brag ) but the main coding was by somebody else and i got to nerd out on graphics and low level networking and thus it actually got finished :) 
<2023-01-27T18:26:30.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: >how the pros do itThat is true. And, I've done such a thing in the past, but it takes a lot of energy and clear thinking, and easy memory recall. My estimation is, I'm running at about 5% or 10% at the moment xD
<2023-01-27T18:27:02.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: so, I've got to have a better road, then pushing everything into my brain at maximum detail, and making it all work xD
<2023-01-27T18:27:06.000Z> nachtrabe: it's winter 
<2023-01-27T18:27:18.000Z> nachtrabe: hmm 
<2023-01-27T18:31:03.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: my next step seems to be, designing the interactions between the objects, the ERD isn't enough
<2023-01-27T18:31:22.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: and the obvious pitfall, is I really do enjoy writing code xD
<2023-01-27T18:31:57.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: so I keep switching to writing code, or making my design in terms of the implementation, and that isn't actually a path forward for me
<2023-01-27T18:32:00.000Z> nachtrabe: >  really do enjoy writing code xD
<2023-01-27T18:32:16.000Z> nachtrabe: that's not a pitfall, it's the way to success 
<2023-01-27T18:32:20.000Z> nachtrabe: monica
<2023-01-27T18:34:04.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: well, yeah, since the end result will have to be executable code, it is a good thing xD However, after spinning my wheels whenever I start coding beyond what is clear in my design, I am more convinced than ever that code is bad for program designing 
<2023-01-27T18:45:23.000Z> nachtrabe: one of the view GDC talks that i can actually recommend ( overwatch dudes talking about their netcode ) they said they rewrote entire subsystems 3 times 
<2023-01-27T18:50:52.000Z> nachtrabe: what i mean is : don't fret, banging your head against the problem is the way to success 
<2023-01-27T18:53:51.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: xD
<2023-01-27T18:54:28.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: I plan to keep seeking the final product, I am just experimenting with the intermediary states 
<2023-01-27T19:13:47.000Z> nachtrabe: gamedev is endless twiddling with parameters and experimenting 
<2023-01-27T19:17:36.000Z> nachtrabe: *japanese dude standing in the water* 
<2023-01-27T22:06:19.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: lol
<2023-02-03T11:03:48.000Z> nachtrabe: say, these space nebula you posted, you made them yourself? 
<2023-02-03T15:10:24.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: I think that was one of the plugins I picked up on cyber monday
<2023-02-03T15:27:35.000Z> hazlin@squid.kids: I emailed you the password for this zip https://bae.st/proxy/83mVbenREVFpVCe31jw4oyz2t6g/aHR0cHM6Ly9zcXVpZC5raWRzL21lZGlhLzhkN2M2YjQ5OTY5NmY1NTFlZjI2MTlhMzkyZDc2NWNiYzdmMTM0NGRlMTZjYWUyMDU0MjAwYjBjZjU4NzI0MTMuN3o/8d7c6b499696f551ef2619a392d765cbc7f1344de16cae2054200b0cf5872413.7z
<2023-02-04T10:43:06.000Z> nachtrabe: cool thanx 
<2023-02-04T10:43:30.000Z> nachtrabe: bdw did you get the cockmail invite?
<2023-02-04T11:30:30.000Z> nachtrabe: hmm the squid kidz server doesn't seem to load atm, i'll try downloading again some other time 