<2022-10-29T01:01:45.000Z> ryanthomas: Curious if this chat thing works I've never used it
<2022-10-29T01:01:58.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: absolutely works
<2022-10-29T01:02:07.000Z> ryanthomas: Nice!!
<2022-10-29T01:04:38.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: Soapbox is great but sometimes I get the suspicion some of the features are not ready for prime time. The standard pleroma isn't bad - I went to pleroma then back to rebased - mostly on principle but partly also for features like this and quote posting
<2022-10-29T01:26:57.000Z> ryanthomas: soapbox-fe seemed pretty solid for the pleroma stable release but gleason and all have generally nudged people to follow the development channel for both soapbox and the actual pleroma fork to get all the latest features as they emerge into being
<2022-10-29T01:28:20.000Z> ryanthomas: ive been on fedi since 2017 i like what im seeing happening right now, id sort of at least internally dismissed Truth social but hadnt really thought of its role in fediverse tech development 
<2022-10-29T01:38:10.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: Decentralized servers are very interesting - a good place to observe human attempts to aim for or limit or influence other's expressions. Unless they decentralize I think the corporate platforms will grow less important - long term, centralized platforms will be considered archaic, reflections of an authoritarian era
<2022-10-29T01:40:49.000Z> ryanthomas: Agreed and even Dorsey intuited this quite a few years back
<2022-10-29T01:41:40.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: Aim for a platform where free expression is completely allowed or where limited expression is the norm. I suspect if one looks at the goal of the owners of a platform/server one can predict where they will lie on that spectrum
<2022-10-29T01:41:42.000Z> ryanthomas: I find this stage in mainstream corporate centralization kind of amusing in that a lot of people have an app installed for each friend. Like I have a Whatsapp friend, I have a telegram friend, a discord a friend, Instagram, and so on
<2022-10-29T01:42:33.000Z> ryanthomas: I was very disappointed when the server I was on got banned by other instances, so I switched to one I thought was more neutral, and then that instance started banning some others I liked
<2022-10-29T01:42:33.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: Indeed. I have refused to install WhatsApp so I have lost contact with a lot of people. Turns out, they are not worth being in contact with
<2022-10-29T01:42:57.000Z> ryanthomas: the automation and facilitation of self-hosting is an important part of the fediverse realizing its potential 
<2022-10-29T01:43:09.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: I am doubtful about that
<2022-10-29T01:43:29.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: Once one hands that over to someone else, I THINK one loses some degree of sovereign choice
<2022-10-29T01:43:40.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: I may be wrong
<2022-10-29T01:44:19.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: even running off a vps, one loses some of that.. needing an IP simillarly. These are all sort of choke points where freedom is lost
<2022-10-29T01:45:10.000Z> ryanthomas: well whatever sovereign architecture looks like it has to be easy for the majority of people or the majority of people should be offline
<2022-10-29T01:45:21.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: but I do agree that making it easier for someone should be an aim. db maintenance is something that should be easier - devs may need to look at making that something easier for us to do
<2022-10-29T01:45:37.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: true. easier is key!
<2022-10-29T01:48:45.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: I recently installed streams (zot) it was really easy. Choices available but still one has to go and learn what those choices MEAN. I think there is no getting away - if you want complete freedom, you must do the legwork - if you don't know, then you are not really making an informed choice. So one click solutions - while they appear to expand freedoms, it may be illusion.
<2022-10-29T01:49:54.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: You can get away with NOT knowing but then you are not really free in that regard. One click solutions also take away the power from people inadvertently. They are trapped in ways simply because they haven't taken the time to learn
<2022-10-29T01:50:45.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: simple example, as you sit waiting.. your freedom is concretely limited 
<2022-10-29T01:51:31.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: we wait for a simple gui - then we don't have access to something. If we learn to control it from a terminal, we can have access to it now, before the gui is designed. If we learn to code it, we have ultimate control :-)
<2022-10-29T01:55:13.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: Developers need to look at the db maintenance issue - I find the same issue in Hubzilla. My db is growing so big. I must learn to manage it! There is a solution to the problem that I know right now anyway. With Hubzilla it's quite simple. Simply export all your channels - and start from scratch. Then import channels one by one. It's the exact same effect. I don't think there is any problem coming to the same domain with a fresh DB - I have done the opposite before - CHANGED domains and the conversion was seemless. Zot and Hubzilla are really advanced imo
<2022-10-29T01:55:44.000Z> ryanthomas: Skimmed your instances I like this "bear-friendly" language haha
<2022-10-29T01:55:55.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: LOL I do too. Thank you
<2022-10-29T01:56:03.000Z> ryanthomas: I like the idea too of maybe social circles having a techie in them who bothers with this stuff for them
<2022-10-29T01:56:15.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: That's the idea!!!
<2022-10-29T01:56:25.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: graf is cool imo that way
<2022-10-29T01:56:28.000Z> ryanthomas: Like if I lived in a co-op or something, or families, tribes whatever
<2022-10-29T01:56:30.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: he is perfect 
<2022-10-29T01:56:48.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: exactly and then smaller groups too
<2022-10-29T01:57:11.000Z> ryanthomas: I like his moderation policy, it doesn't select for quality at all, but leave the user space to do that for himself
<2022-10-29T01:57:39.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: sustainable groups - where members also contribute so it becomes something that pays the workers admin etc
<2022-10-29T01:58:54.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: yes. you can entirely block a domain or individual. one could advance it to the admin to do that - but I believe the reasons/principles must be limited where instance-wide blocks are concerned
<2022-10-29T01:59:12.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: members all knowing those and agreeing to all of the reasons 100%
<2022-10-29T02:02:56.000Z> ryanthomas: to me for this kind of material, the sovereignty and independence of my 'identity' is a lot more meaningful to me than: the database storing my posts is physically contained in my house
<2022-10-29T02:03:46.000Z> ryanthomas: so im just glad, aside from this brief phase, to feel more connected with the spirit and potential of federation, mainly, by having my own domain that does not get swept up on one side or another of reckless instance banning
<2022-10-29T02:04:15.000Z> ryanthomas: i always find a small number of accounts worth following on both instances that ban everyone else and instances that get banned a lot
<2022-10-29T02:07:03.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: The idea of blocks is problematic and yet it's also a solution to other issues. The whole fediblock and dominance by what I term fascists, is a big big problem. very harmful because they do it for ideological reasons and at this time, this is almost a pandemic of fear and loathing
<2022-10-29T02:08:03.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: I think you are correct to go to self hosting and assisted hosting of course has its benefits. I think it will be more costly that is important for me
<2022-10-29T02:08:35.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: A few weeks ago, someone - I forget who - could have been Alex - asked about an alternative name for fediverse. I didn't reply to that post. fedi is associated with law enforcement so it seems a tainted term. Also, tainted by fediBLOCK (perhaps not so much a coincidence more reflective of our ideological or philosophical lines being still blurred.  I think the idea of federation although technically the main thing that makes all this possible, agreeing on common protocol etc and making the machine actually work... but from the users side, what matters most is the sovereign aspect of it
<2022-10-29T02:09:19.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: as you said just now (I think)
<2022-10-29T02:10:10.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: one's independence to host a version of ones identity - also it must be transportable or nomadic completely
<2022-10-29T02:11:08.000Z> ryanthomas: def please feel free to share/recommend quality "bear-friendly" accounts
<2022-10-29T02:11:18.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: Diaspora aims to get something like this - atm we can move our contacts/followers/mutes/blocks around (completely with pleroma-be and fe) partly and more conveniently with soapbox-be. BUt we can't move our interactions around
<2022-10-29T02:11:42.000Z> ryanthomas: right
<2022-10-29T02:11:49.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: diaspora allows users to export account but NO IMPORT facility yet LOL
<2022-10-29T02:11:57.000Z> ryanthomas: haha
<2022-10-29T02:13:09.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: they want to get the complete thing working first - everything identity, interactions, and of course followers content etc all working. I fear its a pipedream though and diuaspora has always been with one foot in the corporate sector if you ask me. They are more likely to slacken off and just go with this new thing - @ something or other
<2022-10-29T02:13:59.000Z> ryanthomas: yeah curious where @ is going, appreciate alex trying to break it down as he figures it out
<2022-10-29T02:14:26.000Z> ryanthomas: i used one diaspora instance back in like 2011-2013
<2022-10-29T02:14:27.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: On one hand, I have often found the need to go and delete all my old tweets. In europe this is considered a right. So maybe ALL ones interactions are less importan.
<2022-10-29T02:15:21.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: I had my own up a few weeks ago. Its really a nice community but there are also those mastodon type of members. extreme liberals you know the type
<2022-10-29T02:15:23.000Z> ryanthomas: well on mastodon/pleroma ive had no problem downloading an archive of my posts the limitation is in migrating them
<2022-10-29T02:15:51.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: yes.. er, downloading an archive of posts too? How?
<2022-10-29T02:16:32.000Z> ryanthomas: on mastodon at least, then, maybe it's just mastodon
<2022-10-29T02:16:58.000Z> ryanthomas: when you migrate your account i think, you can request an archive, and it generates after a while to download
<2022-10-29T02:17:26.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: perhaps yes. Same on disapora but it is fairly useless on diaspora. I think the difficulty is with the identity connected to those interactions.
<2022-10-29T02:18:40.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: I don't understand sometimes people say that editing ones post is problematic or migrating interactions without an identity attached/locked to it - problematic. I fail to see where it is problematic and I suspect its because I don't move from the same premise as those who say there is a problem there
<2022-10-29T02:19:15.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: one has every right imo to take on any form or identity one desires where it comes to expression that is
<2022-10-29T02:20:16.000Z> ryanthomas: Im looking at my mastodon archive from when i left no agenda social, it seems a little small, it might not have all my posts, im skimming json here so not positive
<2022-10-29T02:20:16.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: if we already accept that completely erasing ones presence is a right online, then why is there this obsession wanting to make whatever one posted or how one 'identified' at one point, as permanent?
<2022-10-29T02:21:05.000Z> ryanthomas: yeah not sure i havent even noticed people talking like that, i dont get it
<2022-10-29T02:21:12.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: I think the authoritarian premise is what makes people say its problematic. Elon is certainly loloking at edit post feature
<2022-10-29T02:21:58.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: Someone mentioned in the thread about edit posts being so 'obviously problematic' - someone who was critical of Elon for considering it
<2022-10-29T02:22:15.000Z> ryanthomas: lol
<2022-10-29T02:22:37.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: If they had it their way, we'd never be able to even DELETE a tweet
<2022-10-29T02:22:39.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: LOL
<2022-10-29T02:23:05.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: hey Ryan, it's cool chatting wth you. 
<2022-10-29T02:23:15.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: I will let you go - but stay in touch ok?
<2022-10-29T02:23:27.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: I tend to ramble on and on. sorry
<2022-10-29T02:24:08.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: if you want to check out hubzilla let me know truthsocial.st is mine
<2022-10-29T02:24:58.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: as for bear friendly, I only know of one - yours LOL and that one is not even up yet.
<2022-10-29T02:26:15.000Z> ryanthomas: hahaha. no pressure likewise, hit me up and if i dont respond right away i will eventually. its a pleasure take it easy
<2022-10-29T02:27:20.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: Cool man! Laters
<2022-10-29T02:29:05.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: If you want to register at truthsocial.st just mention your handle here and I will approve when I get back this evening https://truthsocial.st/register
<2022-10-29T02:29:18.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: or whenever 
<2022-10-29T12:58:19.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: Ahoy - I hope you can login now to truthsocial.st :-)
<2022-10-29T16:42:44.000Z> ryanthomas: not very intuitive, I have a login ID from before but it asks for a username now, and doesn't seem to work if I put the login ID
<2022-10-29T17:50:55.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: I made a mistake and rejected your first one. Please start over. The mistake was mine 
<2022-10-29T17:52:36.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: In other words, don't go to login. Go to Register again, but this time, I will not have o approve it because I turned off the requirement to approve by the admin to make it faster for you
<2022-10-29T17:55:04.000Z> bushgrad@zov.oti.st: You won't believe how often I hit the disapprove button on this instance. It has become a muscle memory thing LOL. No one reads the instructions to first contact me - they just go ahead and register. I then hit no. About 3 to five times a week. Must be the domain name
<2022-10-29T18:34:03.000Z> ryanthomas: Cool I got it!