<2023-05-19T17:43:29.000Z> EssentialUtinsil attached file https://i.poastcdn.org/7340733881cbd5f45d08e258d9d4ca6337473fca5f6107d14d1a20c083800d41.jpeg
<2023-05-19T17:43:58.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Don’t like posting pics of my property publicly 
<2023-05-19T17:46:18.000Z> collatz: lol yeah I always try to cut the frame of my images down a bit. Nice setup.
<2023-05-19T17:46:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: thx.  I have almost no online presence off fedi but just one of those things that makes me a little paranoid lol
<2023-05-19T17:47:18.000Z> collatz: I'm on an incline and a renter so I envy the setup, but at least this year I've got the netting & hoops to keep the leaf miners off the onions.
<2023-05-19T17:48:24.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah I started using the covers on brassicas to keep off the cabbage moths, and radishes/turnips/etc because I get flea beetles pretty bad and the covers seem to help, although I'm not sure why since they crawl on the ground and they're tiny
<2023-05-19T17:49:21.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: shouldn't be too much longer till garlic scapes, they came up pretty early for me this year
<2023-05-19T17:49:31.000Z> collatz: Yeah I can't grow things like mizuna here even w/ covers, just gets _wrecked_ by flea beetle. Anything that doesn't get a little taller basically
<2023-05-19T17:50:24.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah, I had a big problem with them when i first started growing mizuna, they got my turnips pretty good too.  and eggplant for some reason, they really love eggplant
<2023-05-19T17:50:32.000Z> collatz: Yeah I can't grow things like mizuna here even w/ covers, just gets _wrecked_ by flea beetle. Anything that doesn't get a little taller basically
<2023-05-19T17:50:53.000Z> collatz: ...my connectivity is being a little spotty btw...
<2023-05-19T17:51:27.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I'm at work doing various things, no worries
<2023-05-19T17:51:54.000Z> collatz: We're getting scapes already actually. I'm going to let them curl out a bit before the obligatory pics, and I'm going to keep a bunch on to see if that can prevent cloves from pre-sprouting which seems to be a problem here.
<2023-05-19T17:52:36.000Z> collatz: Yeah, same. We're in a doldrums atm so I'm poking at things and seeing whats up here
<2023-05-19T17:53:00.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah I cut them right when they start developing the flower
<2023-05-19T17:53:57.000Z> collatz: I've never let them get particularly far, so I don't know much about how they develop. was assuming it's pretty much like onion flowers where they stretch then bulk and break out of the outer membrane
<2023-05-19T18:01:46.000Z> collatz: Btw, I just remembered...maybe misremembered?...Did you at one point have an NJP logo in your display name? And did you decide against that around the time the Greg thing happened? I remember Boomerman being fairly frustrated about the whole thing, but I've never had the chance to talk really at all w/ anyone about it. Curious what anyone who wasn't towing a strict party line one way or another thought. Full disclosure, I really don't understand Greg's approach or the particulars of his complaint, and I did try.
<2023-05-19T18:24:13.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I did.
<2023-05-19T18:24:31.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I removed it shortly after that, but not directly as a result of the Greg thing
<2023-05-19T18:25:03.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: actually in response to the episode of FTN when they had Chris Cantwell on
<2023-05-19T18:27:08.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: my opinion on the Greg thing was that Greg was probably completely in the wrong.  I still follow him on telegram because I like his podcast, and he hasn't said a word about it since.
<2023-05-19T18:37:05.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: 😊  https://i.poastcdn.org/dcbf3db804e51962fbe8b74e9b80f40bfadc55084f34d8b27d87da58d6f29f21.jpeg
<2023-05-19T18:38:34.000Z> collatz: Nice.
<2023-05-19T18:38:53.000Z> collatz: Yeah I've noticed Greg's silence.
<2023-05-19T18:39:09.000Z> collatz: My only exposure to Cantwell was when streams like Sarin's or Heelturn were clowning on him, generally w/ the 'boof meth' meme. Tbh that never seemed like a solid way to denounce someone. Although there were things like him waving handguns around on stream that really did seem stupid, and I can't say I've known him to present anything explicitly valuable either.
<2023-05-19T18:39:26.000Z> collatz: All that said, he obviously had an audience. I can understand Jazz (or the XYZ guys in Aus for that matter) having him on just to get those people looking in new directions. Is there something more heinous about him that says, "we shouldn't even talk to this guy" I'm unaware of?
<2023-05-19T18:41:29.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I was a Cantwell fan back in the libertarian days, it was him going to Charlottesville that got me into nationalism in the first place.
<2023-05-19T18:43:01.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: But the FTN episode really made me think about things a lot, and I basically decided that they're both wrong to put it simply.
<2023-05-19T18:49:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: more specifically, I agree with the NJP side that the existing Republican party is not going to significantly improve things for whites, but I disagree that they are going to succeed in building a viable 3rd party with their current leadership/direction.  I agree with Cantwell that our system is a 2 party system, and that any attempt to gain power will have to go through one of these parties.  I disagree with him that it's possible to change it to better serve our interests.  
<2023-05-19T18:55:42.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: But Chris said something in the interview that sort of resonated with something else that had been annoying me with NJP for a while: their obsession with hitler and national socialism/nazis.  I like history, I'm well aware that the nazis were the good guys, etc.  But Chris pointed out that current year US is not 1930s Germany.  We have very different political structures and political climates, and the NJP's obsession with modelling stuff off the nazi movement just makes me feel that they're not on the right path, and they are not going to succeed with their current leadership/plan.  
<2023-05-19T18:56:49.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I still support them in that they are bringing pro-whites together irl and building real connections and networks, that is of paramount importance, but politically I'm not on board anymore.
<2023-05-19T19:08:33.000Z> collatz: W/ my dad's med issues, I haven't been able to complete the whole 'vetting' process, so maybe there's some things I miss about the NJP's goals. Aren't they more aimed at being a pressure-group than a party w/ any expectation of taking a plurality on the national stage tho?
<2023-05-19T19:08:47.000Z> collatz: Guess I'm kind of "why not both?" about it.
<2023-05-19T19:09:47.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I tried to get vetted twice over a few years and it always just fell through once I talked to a local guy with no explanation
<2023-05-19T19:09:51.000Z> collatz: I tend to think Cantwell's from-within thing really, really won't shift the _party_ needle, but maybe has some potential in terms of separating people who think of themselves as Republican from the GOP. If that feels like the way-to-engage any given person has the most comfort/facility with, okay, go for it.
<2023-05-19T19:10:07.000Z> collatz: ...really...hunh weird.
<2023-05-19T19:10:42.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I think changing the republican party from within has somewhere around the same chance of working as creating a 3rd party from the ground up based on national socialism
<2023-05-19T19:11:41.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: so I'm also a 'why not both' just in a different way.  like, I don't see either working but I'm all for people trying both and see if it can be done
<2023-05-19T19:12:12.000Z> collatz: Agreed. I guess seeing how sharply the expunge people like Fuentes or even Alsup on a much more local level makes me feel like building a public awareness they can't directly curtail has potential.
<2023-05-19T19:13:09.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: alsup was always their big example of 'see, he tried it and it didn't work' that they just extrapolate into 'it will never work so don't try'
<2023-05-19T19:13:49.000Z> collatz: Idk enough about the structure of the NSDAP to understand how thoroughly the NJP are paralleling it, but if that's inapplicable, I'd want  Canwell's or whoever's case to be better than "you have to go through the GOP. that's just how it is"
<2023-05-19T19:14:15.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it's a similar thing with people that point to Ruby Ridge / Waco and say 'they'll never leave you alone' despite there being tons of people in this country that keep to themselves and don't get bothered
<2023-05-19T19:17:15.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: our political system is designed to keep true 3rd positionists out, everyone agrees on this as far as I'm aware.  I've not seen anything about how exactly NJP is going to eventually get around this, it always seems like a south park underpants gnomes 'first we build a movement, then ??, then we win' sort of plan
<2023-05-19T19:17:53.000Z> collatz: Again, I should be more thoroughly informed of the history, but Steve King, David Duke, whatshisname the kingfish guy, that guy w/ the Christian radio program, even maybe to some degree people like Arpaio. Pressure against anyone who tries to amass real ethnonationalist power in the main stream doesn't seem like a single isolated incident.
<2023-05-19T19:18:55.000Z> collatz: The rejection doesn't seem isolated, but I don't know of many instances where there's been an effort to amass that 3rd position _while we've been in as demographically desperate a position as we are now_
<2023-05-19T19:22:06.000Z> collatz: I suppose another thought I tend to return to re: "first we...; then ??; then we win" is. Okay, what then? If not Cantwell's or the NJP's approach?... It feels like the underpants gnomes w/o the first & last steps
<2023-05-19T19:35:01.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I'm currently of the opinion that it is going to take some sort of catastrophic event to even open up the possibility.  I'm not blackpilled though, since the current state of things seems to be getting very unstable
<2023-05-19T19:39:05.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: which is why I'd rather see a focus on getting our guys into various local positions, even if they have to hide their power level.  I don't ever see the federal government in it's current form coming under the control of national socialists, or any explicitly pro-white political group.  But I don't think it's going to maintain it's current form for a whole lot longer, and whatever happens after that we need people to be in positions to lead.
<2023-05-19T20:24:56.000Z> collatz: All for being locally involved, gov't or otherwise. I work at a place where, if there's anyone I could call ourguy, you'd probably never find out. So, I've got no perspective on how   you'd focus on getting those people or I'd get myself into any meaningful position. If that's something in your irl circles that's possible, great. I think there are a lot of people like me who don't really have it on the table, and personally the NJP approach sounds like it has more potential than the Cantwell one from that perspective.
<2023-05-19T20:25:03.000Z> collatz: I guess I also see "only show your power level post-collapse" as a pitfall. Can believe you may be correct that possibilities will remain very limited without massive upheaval, but out-in-the-open groundwork to pick up on them seems like it would go hand-in-hand with the patient work of building up & standing unseen at the ready. I might be more suited to the latter if I wasn't so isolated, but even then I'd still see the NJP as something valuable.
<2023-05-19T20:35:13.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Like I said, I'm not opposed to either, I just don't personally see either working.  Anything that gets more white people to see the reality of things, and gets them connected irl is a benefit.  
<2023-05-19T20:37:28.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: my fundamental problem with national socialism is that it is a political ideology centered on a strong and brilliant (in the case of Hitler at least) leader, and I don't see anyone who fits that description in the NS sphere at the moment.  without such a leader, the things they propose are dangerous.
<2023-05-19T21:17:10.000Z> collatz: "Anything that gets more white people to see the reality of things, and gets them connected irl is a benefit." Reason enough in my book to go either direction depending on any given person's circumstance. If you're already finding good ways to do that within your irl circles, more power to you.
<2023-05-19T21:17:16.000Z> collatz: My understanding of NS's organization just from a partial reading of Mein Kampf is that it was intended to be hierarchical in its organization to focus responsibility/culpability in a way that parliamentary organizations can't. The idea being that, over time and through performance, people who can stand that test and at least take meaningful advice from meaningully knowledgeable people (as opposed to how we usually encounter the idea of 'experts' in our system) will remain. I'd agree that looking at any figure as the magic-man is more of a potential problem in that system, but that problem still seems more transient (i.e. people die) than the immortal diffusion of responsibility in parliaments/senates. I say that having NEVER been much of a pol-sci head and knowing I'm probably pretty Dunning-Kruger on the issue. Still, shining-beacon-of-light-figure aside, I can't say Hitler's time-in/experience-of Vienna's Austro-Hungarian parliament didn't ring a lot of bells parallel to how the US is structured & going.
<2023-05-19T23:51:43.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Yeah I don’t claim to be an expert on this stuff, I’m probably retarded loo
<2023-05-19T23:53:45.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’ve also been told by a certain anon that I’m not allowed to be a national socialist because I’m not an urbanite 🤷‍♂️
<2023-05-19T23:56:37.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’m always skeptical of comparisons to other revolutions or movements in history because I think the existence of the internet puts us in a totally different situation than any other time.  Similarities exist but the calculus is totally different now.
<2023-05-20T00:42:21.000Z> collatz: "I’ve also been told by a certain anon that I’m not allowed to be a national socialist because I’m not an urbanite" lmao what? I remember going back & forth w/ D'Marcus Leibowitz about the future-relevance of cities, but "you have to be urban to be NS" is news to me. Guess I'm out lol
<2023-05-20T00:42:44.000Z> collatz: I wouldn't disagree that parts of the equation are always changing, but personally I do think anyone who sees any siginificance in race/ethnicity/heritability has to prioritize things that take a long time to distinguish, just b/c that's how distinction/creation in genetics works.
<2023-05-20T00:43:46.000Z> collatz: That's not to say "mirror NS blindly", and some of the "use its symbolism for shock value" stuff is fair to question, but I don't see why anyone wouldn't accept the elements of it that do a good job of serving ethnic self-interest in ideas about the state. Some things change; Some things don't.
<2023-05-20T00:48:22.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: t.me/strikerunfiltered/2224credit where it’s due: they are definitely continuing to get their shit together.  
<2023-05-20T00:51:14.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: And I think it was hyperborianwave that told me that so yeah lol. But I don’t think it’s totally wrong, cities are the centers of political power, and even with modern transportation it can be difficult for ruralites to contribute to the same degree as people in the city.  
<2023-05-20T00:56:37.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I do accept ethnic self-interest, I would be totally fine with NS taking over the government if they had good leadership.  This is where I actually don’t disagree with the tucker Carlson clip to so many of ourguys got so offended over:  I’m not going to support someone who claims to represent white people just because they’re white, if I don’t think they have the right leadership.  I think this was just a pragmatic statement and not intentionally anti-white.
<2023-05-20T01:29:01.000Z> collatz: I feel like I've seen Hyperborianwave, but he doesn't pop up on my timeline much. Was that the guy who was going ultra-high-energy against like Mongoose et al. surrounding the Greg thing? Boomerman probably did more to refute some of that shade, and he was ultimately frustrated by the boundary I think McKevitt put up about what they should do to assure people.
<2023-05-20T01:29:20.000Z> collatz: "tucker Carlson clip" ... This is the "Hey, I don't know you man" thing? I didn't take a fine-tooth comb to it, but if it was his way of saying, "sure, I think White people 'taking their own side' is a good thing. However, it has to be under admirable leadership," and putting that latter part in the "hey..[etc]" form, then without a follow-up "can you show me you're capable of representing our interests" it just loses the 'taking our own side' part altogether. Was something like that in there?
<2023-05-20T01:44:36.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Yeah that’s the clip
<2023-05-20T18:44:33.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’m getting close to having the garden ready!  All the squash and cucumbers getting transplanted today, hoping to get all my direct seed stuff in too
<2023-05-20T18:45:24.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: One more irrigation line to set up and a trellis for my pole beans and I’m ready to rock
<2023-05-20T19:27:36.000Z> collatz: Good stuff. I'm way behind on tomatoes and cucurbits (mostly watamelons this year, but a couple kinds of winter squash & some straight8 cucumbers too). Probably early june before everything's out, but I guess I can say I'm above-water lol
<2023-05-20T20:39:15.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Still plenty of time, I’m just racing because I’m expecting another kid any day lol
<2023-05-20T23:02:35.000Z> collatz: Congratulations!