<2022-12-16T09:35:17.000Z> CatLord: hey i adopted a couple of cats and i have a few questions if u have time - nothing urgent
<2022-12-17T13:55:28.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: Sure thing!
<2022-12-18T04:41:29.000Z> CatLord: awesome. so first of all, they are not burying their shit in the litterbox sometimes. not every time but sometimes. i watched once and the boy is trying to dig at the side of the litter box instead of in the litter, to bury his shit. is it a problem with having a higher back/sides litterbox? i also heard that i should get one litterbox for each of them - at the moment i just have one, so ill have to get another but i want to know if the larger box is a problem first so i dont get another if itis
<2022-12-18T04:41:53.000Z> CatLord: i also want to know if there is a particular type of litter cats prefer or whatever.
<2022-12-18T04:42:43.000Z> CatLord: they are 11 months old, have been fostered since kittens, and then were adopted out to someone else before being returned and then me adopting them, so they should be toilet trained for sure - i dont think lack of training is the problem.
<2022-12-18T04:44:54.000Z> CatLord: umm, second would be that the boy sometimes gets grumpy or a bit bitey and scratches me when im petting him, particularly if i pet away from his neck or head, near his belly. but if he is calm enough and i do rub his belly, then he really likes it and purrs, but he will get kind of antsy and bothered at the same time. im wondering how it is best to train him to not get bothered or scratch me. one of my friends said he hissed at his cat, said no, and pinned him (painlessly), and it worked to train him not to scratch
<2022-12-18T04:45:40.000Z> CatLord: i could also just leave him alone when he does that, which is fine, but he clearly likes it as well lol. idk what to do there.
<2022-12-18T04:47:09.000Z> CatLord: third, im trying to make sure they dont go on the bench, so i just tell them "down" very firmly and that mostly works but ive heard you can use a spray bottle as well to train them. i dont mind using it but wanted to check with u it isnt bad or upsets them too much. i used it once and he hated it and got down but then didnt seem bothered at all and nuzzled me a minute later, so it seems ok but ye just asking u
<2022-12-18T04:50:01.000Z> CatLord: here is cute photo of them https://i.poastcdn.org/70d6eaa00d06fa3bb0e2eec50a1aa134da1c469d5b0516ea0acc238c7077c46d.jpg
<2022-12-18T04:50:36.000Z> CatLord: ive had cats before but it was ~14 years ago
<2022-12-18T14:02:23.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: Ok so there's a lot to unpack here.
<2022-12-18T14:06:59.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: As for the litter thing, it could be a few issues. The cats may be exceptionally clean and don't like the possibility of touching shit and pissed when they cover their shit. A bigger or multiple litter boxes may help, as will frequent cleaning. But it's no guarantee. It could also be a dominance thing to leave the shit uncovered - cats have an instinct to hide their shit so predators won't know they're around. To leave it alone is like marking territory. Multiple litter boxes may help with that.
<2022-12-18T14:11:28.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: Some cats simply don't hide their shit in litter - I had one that never did. Just different personalities. That scratching afterwards may be them attempting to hide it, or it could just be overwhelming instinct to do that motion after using the bathroom. The reason why it's suggested to have multiple litter boxes for a multi cat house is to avoid both cats having to go to the bathroom at once (they often don't share the shitter), and it also prevents bullying/stalking behavior around the box 
<2022-12-18T14:13:28.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: So litter box TL;DR - that behavior is likely the cat's personality. May be helped by cleaner box, larger box, and/or multiple boxes. but I still highly recommend multiple litter boxes regardless. 
<2022-12-18T14:17:19.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: As far as litter, I have heard cats dislike scented litter (cats dislike citrus too). Personally I've never seen cats as a whole completely dislike one type of litter though. It's usually on an individual basis. I do notice ime many cats won't use those thick wood pellets. Declawed cats will refuse a lot of litters due to the pain they experience when standing on them
<2022-12-18T14:20:26.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: Side note cats are instinctively litter box trained. You don't have to do a thing to get a 6 week old kitten to shit in a box besides getting them a small box. They prefer shitting in loose soil because their brain wants them to be able to bury it if needed. While your cats may not bury it, they are still considered litter box 'trained', it's unfortunately just one way that cats use the litter box.
<2022-12-18T14:24:07.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: So purring in cats is actually a behavior they do to calm themselves down. Sometimes they do it while they are already feeling good, so they can feel extra good. Sometimes they do it in times of high stress to try and feel good. I had a cat with a broken pelvis from an attack purring before. So that may explain why he purrs while being agitated. Although it's hard to tell without being able to see the interaction, too. 
<2022-12-18T14:27:40.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: Cats as a whole generally dislike their bellies being touched, it is a very sensitive and vulnerable spot for them. It isn't really normal for cats to like their bellies being touched because they are ingrained into protecting their vital organs. It can happen, but gradually and I would advise to not expect that to happen. Some cats will go their whole lives not wanting their bellies touched. 
<2022-12-18T14:31:04.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: On a similar note I want to brush up quick on overstimulation just in case that thing your cat does isn't about protecting the Belly, because I can't see it I can't be sure. Overstimulated I explain as kitty autism. Basically there is just too much stimulus and the cat will have a tism fit, usually biting and scratching as a result. It is seen as a normal loving cat that wants pets, but can't handle too much touching anywhere.
<2022-12-18T14:40:35.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: So training cats is an entirely different world from training dogs, although I wouldn't even pin a dog down for training. Keep in mind, we as a species never had to train cats to do what we needed them to do - kill pests. So training a cat is a lot more psychology based than dogs which is an easy operant conditioning. We also have to remember, cats are NOT apex predators, thus they do not respond well to punishment by people. They are liable to learn to fear people or the person punishing them.
<2022-12-18T14:47:02.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: For training cats it has to be kept short, like 5 min, and only a few times a day - they aren't used to training. For something like getting him used to the belly being touched, you'll want to find something the cat likes and use it as reinforcement, and take it very slow. Get sorta close to the belly, and very quickly give him a treat or something if he doesn't bite or scratch you. If he does bite, just stop and do not give a treat, and cease training for a bit.
<2022-12-18T14:50:43.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: I generally don't suggest the water bottle for most cases because cats will understand you control it. For example if you use a water bottle for when the cat is on the table, the cat will just get on the table when you aren't home. If you use the water bottle for when your cat bites when you touch it's belly, the cat may begin to avoid you - the cat associates you doing something it presumably is uncomfortable with, and then gets punished when it tries to make you stop, a lose - lose situation
<2022-12-18T14:52:45.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: Water bottles are good for cats that like to stalk people for play, like when they actually just fuckin run at you and attack you for when you walk around the house. The cat is (usually) initiating interaction. And obviously you have to be around for the cat to attack you, so no worries about you not being around to use the water bottle.
<2022-12-18T14:55:55.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: What I generally tell people when training cats what is and isn't their furniture to use - you want to make what they are currently using, in this case the bench, seem really unpleasant that they don't want to use it. But then, you also want to give them something they can use that seems awesome and so much better than the bench.
<2022-12-18T14:59:29.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: For example if they like to sit on that bench, maybe put scents like citrus on there which they hate. Or double sided sticky tape, they hate the feel. Put a mat on there with the spikey side up or put down some tin foil (they hate the sound and feel), you will have to get creative with this part. But don't forget to offer something they can sit on! Maybe put something confy up high (cats live to survey) with some catnip or cat grass for them, or place treats up there occasionally, etc. 
<2022-12-18T15:00:22.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: So yeah that's a lot, let me know if something doesn't make sense because I wrote this whole waking up lol
<2022-12-18T23:36:24.000Z> CatLord: no this is awesome thank you
<2022-12-18T23:36:36.000Z> CatLord: ill read it over again after breakfast
<2023-04-12T20:34:31.000Z> CatLord: hey man thanks for the help last time
<2023-04-12T20:34:40.000Z> CatLord: i am using a furminator deshedding brush/tool on my cats 
<2023-04-12T20:34:58.000Z> CatLord: i worry that it just keeps cutting hair and doesn't actually only remove loose undercoat
<2023-04-12T20:35:16.000Z> CatLord: it definitely reduces shed fur around the house but i do not want to do it too much
<2023-04-12T20:35:31.000Z> CatLord: do you have an opinion on grooming or using these tools?
<2023-04-12T20:35:35.000Z> CatLord: my cats are shorthair btw
<2023-04-13T02:43:55.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: What a coincidence I was actually just thinking about this!
<2023-04-13T02:46:17.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: So apparently tools like furminators, shed enders, etc will begin to pull out hair after extended periods and cause something called a brush burn. Basically meaning it thins out the hair and causes skin irritation as it will begin pulling out hair.
<2023-04-13T02:47:40.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: That's not to say it's a bad tool. It's a good tool imo when used correctly. I believe they are intended to be used frequently with short sessions, like 5-10m, and not excessively over the same part of the animal. 
<2023-04-13T02:49:46.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: If you know a dog groomer they would probably be able to give you more information. I honestly don't know a whole lot about grooming. I've got a shed enders that I use and when I reach my limit on that, I use an equigroomer which seems to work really well 
<2023-04-15T01:32:00.000Z> CatLord: thank you for the comprehensive response again
<2023-04-15T01:32:29.000Z> CatLord: so do you reckon it's best to judge how much is enough by time, being consistent with the technique, rather than judge it by how much you're taking off?
<2023-04-15T01:53:25.000Z> Tepid_Tapir: I think so, at least with those deshedding tools. Because I know I've actually stripped my dog's coat with one - I was brushing his back for like an hour straight. And I was still digging up hair with it.
<2023-04-15T01:55:25.000Z> CatLord: yeah I don't want to shear the cat lol - it is satisfying getting the hair out but need to be careful