<2023-03-13T12:49:42.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I finished End and the Death.  now I have two Abnett books to sit and wait for lol
<2023-03-13T13:30:57.000Z> SaltWraith: Is it going to be Abnett for part 2?
<2023-03-13T13:31:35.000Z> SaltWraith: Also I read the Rynn's World novel. It's pretty much an attempt to do Helsreach but for the Crimson Fists and it's just nowhere near as good
<2023-03-13T13:43:25.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah Abnett wrote both parts already
<2023-03-13T13:44:06.000Z> SaltWraith: aww shid let's fuckin' goooooooo
<2023-03-13T13:44:13.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I always see Rynns world pop up in my recommended on audible but haven't got around to it.  Helsreach is just phenomenal
<2023-03-13T13:44:25.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: did you ever watch the animated 'movie' for it?
<2023-03-13T13:44:58.000Z> SaltWraith: yeah I did. it's very impressive considering it was made just by one guy but of course when I watch it I miss some of the stuff that got cut
<2023-03-13T13:45:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: he was the one reason I even considered signing up for warhammer+ but they messed that up so bad, even my love of blood angels couldn't get me to do it
<2023-03-13T13:45:55.000Z> SaltWraith: by the way since you like Abnett, did you try the Gaunt's Ghosts stuff yet?
<2023-03-13T13:46:31.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I have not.  I was keeping that one in my back pocket to start when I needed something good to get into
<2023-03-13T13:46:52.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I've heard nothing but good things about it, but I didn't wanna burn through all the best stuff quite yet lol
<2023-03-13T13:47:41.000Z> SaltWraith: They're good but I don't really think they're as good the Eisenhorn stuff. But I guess I can't really explain the thing that I think is a slight problem with the series until you read a few
<2023-03-13T13:47:55.000Z> SaltWraith: also speaking of blood angels
<2023-03-13T13:48:11.000Z> SaltWraith: ...I read the Mephiston Trilogy. it's the worst thing ever
<2023-03-13T13:48:23.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I have mixed feelings on it
<2023-03-13T13:48:55.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the first book was better the second time I went through it, the first time I just could not get into it and had no idea what even happened
<2023-03-13T13:49:43.000Z> SaltWraith: it's just bad, but you can't actually make a good Mephiston story because he's a character that everyone shits their pants over in universe, but never actually does anything that matters and his personality is non-existent
<2023-03-13T13:49:52.000Z> SaltWraith: he's just a JJ Abrams mystery box character
<2023-03-13T13:49:56.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it's been a while since I listened to them (almost all my 40k books are audio)
<2023-03-13T13:50:17.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: he was handled better in the Dante series
<2023-03-13T13:50:30.000Z> SaltWraith: yeah, by usually not being featured a lot
<2023-03-13T13:51:05.000Z> SaltWraith: fuck Mephiston, the best thing to happen to him would be for him to be peacefully sunsetted like Poochie and we pretend he never existed
<2023-03-13T13:51:57.000Z> SaltWraith: now Gabriel Seth! that's a character!
<2023-03-13T13:56:56.000Z> SaltWraith: oh yeah, another Abnett novel. Did you ever try Brothers Of The Snake?
<2023-03-13T13:57:24.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I have not, but it's another one that keeps coming up in recommended
<2023-03-13T13:57:37.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: probably because I have most of Abnett's other 40k lol
<2023-03-13T13:57:54.000Z> SaltWraith: it's pretty good and entirely self contained.
<2023-03-13T13:57:58.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: have you read Dante?  that is one of my all time favorite 40k books
<2023-03-13T13:58:59.000Z> SaltWraith: the one where he's having childhood flashbacks while going back to Baal to have the big Sanguinius Family Reunion VS the Tyranids?
<2023-03-13T13:59:09.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I know Haley has a lot of shit books, but he really knocked it out of the park on that one
<2023-03-13T13:59:32.000Z> SaltWraith: Yeah I like that one, but I like the one with the big Tyranid battle even more.
<2023-03-13T13:59:46.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I like that whole series
<2023-03-13T14:00:02.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: but blood angels are my favorite chapter so thats not surprising
<2023-03-13T14:00:25.000Z> SaltWraith: I actually like Guy Haley, I think he's the strong work horse of BL and considering the limitations and how much stuff he has to put out I don't really blame him for his books not being perfect
<2023-03-13T14:01:25.000Z> SaltWraith: I didn't like the one where they turn Mephiston in to a Pirmaris and tease the possibility of making Dante a Pirmaris too.
<2023-03-13T14:01:38.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Abnett is the only one that comes to mind that I really like all his books, when you have such a huge body of work like the overall 40k universe, there is always going to be ups and downs
<2023-03-13T14:01:48.000Z> SaltWraith: And the one about Azakalon hunting for some pirmarius who got the black rage was also pretty boring
<2023-03-13T14:01:59.000Z> SaltWraith: what about ADB
<2023-03-13T14:02:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I am a fan
<2023-03-13T14:04:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I will be pissed if they turn Dante into primaris
<2023-03-13T14:04:52.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: but I don't think that is the direction they're going
<2023-03-13T14:05:14.000Z> SaltWraith: Probably not, but I'm also afraid of like... Chapter Master Mephiston
<2023-03-13T14:05:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: as a mini painter, I was happy to get a really sweet looking model out of that lol
<2023-03-13T14:05:57.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Mephison wouldn't make sense as a chapter master
<2023-03-13T14:05:58.000Z> SaltWraith: he's an inconsistent mess with a lot of undeserved power, and I don't think he needs another accolade
<2023-03-13T14:06:04.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: did you read darkness in the blood?
<2023-03-13T14:06:09.000Z> SaltWraith: yeah it sucked
<2023-03-13T14:06:42.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean who else do they have as a candidate unless they make a new character
<2023-03-13T14:06:50.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: most things in the primaris era suck, always spend too much time talking about their fancy new wargear like it's Tom Clancy 40k
<2023-03-13T14:08:02.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I get the feeling that they're setting up some sort of esoteric thing where Dante becomes some sort of avatar of Sanguinius, where Dante 'dies' and Sanguinius 'lives' but neither is totally accurate
<2023-03-13T14:08:33.000Z> SaltWraith: oh god no Super Sanguinor
<2023-03-13T14:08:49.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: could be done right
<2023-03-13T14:09:00.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: they haven't left a lot of better options open
<2023-03-13T14:09:13.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean it would be an interesting thing to present to Bobby G
<2023-03-13T14:09:41.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: killing off Dante is possible, but he deserves better, even if he goes out in glory.
<2023-03-13T14:09:49.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: making him primaris is just shitty
<2023-03-13T14:09:52.000Z> SaltWraith: like "hey bobby G... here's your bro Sanguinius back.. as a weird faith-powered warp angel"
<2023-03-13T14:09:57.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: dreadnought dante is also shitty
<2023-03-13T14:10:45.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: He's working some sort of thing with the sanguinor and the black rage, so it's the only thing that seemed to make sense where it's going
<2023-03-13T14:10:46.000Z> SaltWraith: it wouldn't make sense to make him a dreadnaught because his organs are failing, and a deadnaught kinda needs a corpse with still functional organs
<2023-03-13T14:11:18.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah I don't know if theres precident for interring such an old marine
<2023-03-13T14:11:59.000Z> SaltWraith: what if he just picks Gabriel Seth
<2023-03-13T14:12:26.000Z> SaltWraith: it wouldn't make sense, but I'd like it
<2023-03-13T14:13:19.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the problem is the black rage.  it's now an integral part of the legion's persona, so from a writing standpoint you can never actually cure it without killing their uniqueness, but at the same time it's such a huge problem that it get kinda tiresome to be constantly battling against this terrible affliction in every story
<2023-03-13T14:14:00.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean there's that whole novel about Azkalon finding out the primaris still get the black rage
<2023-03-13T14:14:31.000Z> SaltWraith: and it's the least surprising thing ever because yeah... why would they ever get rid of the defining flaw of the Blood Angels?
<2023-03-13T14:14:45.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it would mean Primaris weren't true blood angels
<2023-03-13T14:15:31.000Z> SaltWraith: it would also mean that the logical thing to do for the blood angels would be to replace themselves with Primaris pretty much entirely as soon as possible
<2023-03-13T14:15:58.000Z> SaltWraith: OH YEAH speaking of Blood Angel-related stuff
<2023-03-13T14:16:18.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I guess it just goes back to the problem of Cawl lol
<2023-03-13T14:16:22.000Z> SaltWraith: I really recommend this one book called The Reverie
<2023-03-13T14:17:04.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: thats a horror one right?
<2023-03-13T14:17:30.000Z> SaltWraith: yeah this one blacklibrary.com/all-products/the-reverie-ebook-2020.html
<2023-03-13T14:17:40.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: ah
<2023-03-13T14:17:50.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I haven't read any of their horror line yet
<2023-03-13T14:18:23.000Z> SaltWraith: the nice thing about the horror line is that they're all completely self contained so you don't need anything outside of general knowledge of the universe
<2023-03-13T14:18:40.000Z> SaltWraith: but that one in particular is really great and I wouldn't mind a sequel
<2023-03-13T14:19:01.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I just started Revolt Against the Modern World, so it's gonna be a minute before I get back to 40k lol
<2023-03-13T14:21:08.000Z> SaltWraith: okay. but let me tell you about the warhammer series that dissapoints me the most
<2023-03-13T14:21:25.000Z> SaltWraith: you probably haven't read any of the Warhammer Crime ones, right?
<2023-03-13T14:21:31.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: nope
<2023-03-13T14:21:43.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I had one on my list though
<2023-03-13T14:26:01.000Z> SaltWraith: so here's the problem I have with that series. I think it has a greater creative potential that warhammer horror does, but they keep limiting themselves by setting all the stories on this one planet, which is a very uninteresting one, and the genre they keep going for is "noir"
<2023-03-13T14:27:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: >has entire galaxy full of every imaginable setting possible>let's use this one
<2023-03-13T14:28:26.000Z> SaltWraith: So literally all of them are purely human vs human, and the villains are always the hyper rich doing something shady. There's like one novel where an eldar assassin shows up, but it's still about rich man bad, rich man steal wraithbone statue.
<2023-03-13T14:30:10.000Z> SaltWraith: It's really terrible, because I think you could do a lot with crime in the 40k universe. I'd love something like... a rogue trader who's a gentleman thief, and it has the tone of a Ciaphas Cain novel. Or maybe a highlight novel for the Arbities where they have to take a whole tower full of dissidents like that Judge Dredd movie with Karl Urban
<2023-03-13T14:30:36.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: that would be sweet
<2023-03-13T14:31:40.000Z> SaltWraith: I just don't get why they don't try something like that. Warhammer Horror does the smart thing and takes place anywhere, at any time, and at any form. They do usually go for that comfy gothic horror tone, but at least they don't limit themselves in an unnecessary way
<2023-03-13T14:31:52.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I like inquisition books because you get a lot of that sort of thing, just inside of a grander plotline
<2023-03-13T14:32:10.000Z> SaltWraith: Oh yeah speaking of inquisition
<2023-03-13T14:32:45.000Z> SaltWraith: Vaults of Terra is a pretty alright series. It's about the inquisition but on Terra, so they serve more as a secret defense force.
<2023-03-13T14:33:11.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I think i had that on my list too
<2023-03-13T14:34:14.000Z> SaltWraith: oh and Watchers of the Throne is really good
<2023-03-13T14:34:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah I liked those
<2023-03-13T14:34:48.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Valdor birth of the imperium was also great
<2023-03-13T14:35:47.000Z> SaltWraith: yeah although they kinda lie to you in the marketing because they make it sound like it'll be about the unification war but in reality the war is already over
<2023-03-13T14:36:03.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it's funny how 40k 'modern' space marines are basically the entire focus of their marketing, but it's all the other factions that are far more interesting
<2023-03-13T14:36:47.000Z> SaltWraith: I think space marines were always the marketing focus, but yeah they're really doubling down on toilet marines
<2023-03-13T14:37:13.000Z> SaltWraith: who own everyone with facts and logics-based warfare
<2023-03-13T14:37:49.000Z> SaltWraith: I'm a big Black Templar enjoyer.
<2023-03-13T14:37:57.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: and bigger and bigger and more bigger guns
<2023-03-13T14:38:14.000Z> SaltWraith: oh yeah
<2023-03-13T14:38:33.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I love black templars, if I didn't already have a melee-focused army (blood angels) I would've gone with them
<2023-03-13T14:39:22.000Z> SaltWraith: did you ever read that Horus Heresy story called Cybernetica?
<2023-03-13T14:39:34.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: never heard of it
<2023-03-13T14:40:48.000Z> SaltWraith: it's a novella but for some reason they put it in to a short story collection even though it's closer to a full novel than it is to a short story
<2023-03-13T14:40:54.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: is it a short story?  I've only read the collections of those
<2023-03-13T14:40:56.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: ah ok
<2023-03-13T14:41:36.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: that is the one downside to audible, since everything is a credit, I tend not to read the short ones
<2023-03-13T14:42:58.000Z> SaltWraith: it's about this one Raven Guard tech marine who was on Mars during the corruption of Mars, and then he manages to escape to Terra and becomes one of Malcador's knights and then gets sent on a Metal Gear Solid-esque infiltration mission on Mars to try to purge it
<2023-03-13T14:44:16.000Z> SaltWraith: it's legit really cool and honestly a lot better than most of the medium quality Horus Heresy novels
<2023-03-13T14:44:36.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: raven guard + mechanicum I'm in
<2023-03-13T14:45:56.000Z> SaltWraith: also... I really like the Horus Heresy novel Nemesis
<2023-03-13T14:46:23.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: same
<2023-03-13T14:46:55.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Swallow gets a lot of shit, but I like most of his work
<2023-03-13T14:47:07.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean obviously they can't actually succeed, but I think it's a great highlight novel for a faction who don't really get to do much during that conflict
<2023-03-13T14:47:23.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the first 40k books I ever read were his Blood Angels books, which are barely considered cannon by a lot of people lol
<2023-03-13T14:47:36.000Z> SaltWraith: I pretty much started with the Horus Heresy
<2023-03-13T14:48:07.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: When I started playing blood angels, I figured I should read some of their lore and that was the first thing I came across.
<2023-03-13T14:48:23.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: immediately went into HH after reading those
<2023-03-13T14:48:52.000Z> SaltWraith: I don't have anyone to play the tabletop with. I just read the books and play the not shit game
<2023-03-13T14:48:53.000Z> SaltWraith: s
<2023-03-13T14:50:10.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: 9th ed came out right before covid.  I was pissed off because it invalidated my entire 8th ed army so I had to buy a bunch of new shit, and I just never liked the new ruleset when it dropped
<2023-03-13T14:51:02.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: then I had a kid, and just didn't have time to go play any more and I barely keep up with the updates, so it would take me a while to figure it out if I wanted to start playing again
<2023-03-13T14:51:14.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I was doing a lot of tournaments in 8th ed
<2023-03-13T14:51:30.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: wasn't very good but I liked playing competitive
<2023-03-13T14:52:10.000Z> SaltWraith: the thing is I would probably just treat the 40k models the same way I would with the gundams
<2023-03-13T14:52:24.000Z> SaltWraith: where I'd just want stuff I liked without context
<2023-03-13T14:52:31.000Z> SaltWraith: like I'd just want Perturabo
<2023-03-13T14:52:44.000Z> SaltWraith: because I really like the Iron Autist
<2023-03-13T14:52:46.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah I just paint stuff to look cool now
<2023-03-13T14:53:08.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I never actually finish much now that I'm not trying to get stuff 'tabletop ready'
<2023-03-13T14:53:14.000Z> SaltWraith: I love the Iron Autist. he's my absolute favorite
<2023-03-13T14:54:46.000Z> EssentialUtinsil attached file https://i.poastcdn.org/3d3a2965663abaebf50d9104960ef9213640569ce69ccb3d13c0514896a39814.png
<2023-03-13T14:55:18.000Z> SaltWraith: ah yes.. a Nigron, with dem gold chains
<2023-03-13T14:55:35.000Z> SaltWraith: we wuz skeleton robot hoteps n' sheeeyyyt
<2023-03-13T14:55:44.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I thought it would be fun to try to paint an entire necron army in NMM lol
<2023-03-13T14:56:22.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I bought the indomitus box set and decided to just build out an entire necron army with it
<2023-03-13T14:56:43.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: so I have a blood angels army, admech army and a necron army
<2023-03-13T14:56:48.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: plus a bunch of killteams
<2023-03-13T14:58:09.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: and some random stuff I just paint for fun.  figured I should have at least one ultrasmurf primaris lieutenant lol https://i.poastcdn.org/ee1723921b322b1b39d453615bb0e5f3b71130d4090c6d32067dd6bc45f2178f.png
<2023-03-13T15:02:20.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: do you paint gundams?
<2023-03-13T15:04:21.000Z> SaltWraith: no, not in a very long time
<2023-03-13T15:05:10.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I was never really drawn to the aesthetic, although I've seen some pretty cool ones.
<2023-03-13T15:10:14.000Z> SaltWraith: well I got in to it because I watched the Tomino stuff, which was pretty good.  but yeah the model kits often have the Katoki style where they have really spindly legs
<2023-03-13T15:13:50.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I know almost nothing about any of it other that what I see on poa.st but I think Tomino is more of the style that I thought were cool
<2023-03-13T15:21:16.000Z> SaltWraith: He didn't design them himself, but yeah the Tomino stuff was still trying to be semi-realistic as military scifi while the stuff after him was more based on trying to make the coolest action figures, so after that it was all wings and stuff.
<2023-03-13T15:25:15.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: ah
<2023-03-13T15:28:56.000Z> SaltWraith: there are some pretty silly looking robots in the Tomino era too, though
<2023-03-16T12:42:58.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: fucking damnit https://i.poastcdn.org/ace95f9ed6bbf489d8771b53d147b84600135a48813ddc57061236ad3a5abbef.png
<2023-03-16T12:43:57.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I'm definitely buying the model, but fucking damnit
<2023-03-16T12:48:07.000Z> SaltWraith: ebin
<2023-03-16T12:49:13.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: also:
<2023-03-16T12:49:15.000Z> EssentialUtinsil attached file https://i.poastcdn.org/fc0555f214cbdd5874e7095d7c234abd2222e04bda16b209e2386f82cfef6c1b.png
<2023-03-16T12:50:13.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: >ignore the chapter master's actual honor guard to try and sell newer box sets
<2023-03-16T12:50:30.000Z> SaltWraith: >please get excited for Mark X shit
<2023-03-16T12:50:36.000Z> SaltWraith: >please clap
<2023-03-16T12:51:51.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: does banging my head against a wall count?
<2023-03-16T12:52:09.000Z> SaltWraith: maybe in ork society
<2023-03-16T12:52:39.000Z> SaltWraith: or if you're one of those navigators and all your other limbs are entombed in to machinery or just useless
<2023-03-16T12:54:24.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: also, the guy who won the Las Vegas Open this year was playing blood angels with non-primaris dante
<2023-03-16T12:54:41.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: they could've just released an updated model
<2023-03-16T12:55:09.000Z> SaltWraith: primaris as in they actually made him a primaris or just wearing mark x armor
<2023-03-16T12:55:18.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: he's primaris
<2023-03-16T12:55:24.000Z> SaltWraith: n.. noh
<2023-03-16T12:55:32.000Z> SaltWraith: noh... this can't be
<2023-03-16T12:55:52.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: warhammer-community.com/2023/03/16/the-legendary-commander-dante-crosses-the-rubicon-primaris/
<2023-03-16T12:56:10.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: what a travesty
<2023-03-16T12:56:57.000Z> SaltWraith: but... Dante's whole appeal is that he's an old man, and as his flesh weakens it rekindles his humanity and makes him more relatable and sympathetic to the plight of baseline humanity
<2023-03-16T12:58:13.000Z> SaltWraith: and now he's just going to be another legendary asskicker with not much going on besides winging about the genetic defects and killing whatever we're killing today
<2023-03-16T12:59:14.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: not like this...
<2023-03-16T12:59:38.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean I guess I like this better than chapter master Mephiston or some other boring jabron who's job was to clean Dante's feet getting elevated
<2023-03-16T12:59:47.000Z> SaltWraith: but not like this. this is the lamest way you could do it
<2023-03-16T13:00:22.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Karlaan could have worked, but he's not very well fleshed out in the lore.
<2023-03-16T13:01:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: some sort of Seth arc would've been great
<2023-03-16T13:01:51.000Z> SaltWraith: like I didn't love the idea of him becoming the Super Sanguinor but at least that'd be a unique cop out and I kinda would have liked to see Guilliman having to contain his Sargonian bullshit when Dante is suddenly a literal angel and at least partially an avatar of the actual Sanguinius
<2023-03-16T13:02:00.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: this is just an overall problem with modern GW.  they are so busy chasing a WiDeR cUsToMeR bAsE that they stopped giving a fuck about the actual fans
<2023-03-16T13:03:21.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: they don't even seem to care about writing an actually cool storyline any more, it's all just a function of selling new shit
<2023-03-16T13:03:23.000Z> SaltWraith: it's really stupid because I think more people read the books than they actually play the game, and the people who don't play the game but only read the books also don't love the idea of a IRL marketing stunt ruining a beloved character
<2023-03-16T13:04:09.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: part of the problem is the fans will just go along with it and buy the models even while they hate it (like me)
<2023-03-16T13:04:25.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: like the introduction of Primaris
<2023-03-16T13:05:44.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: most people hated it, the lore was stupid, and yet here we are, because at the end of the day the new models looked badass and they sold a fuck load of them
<2023-03-16T13:08:54.000Z> SaltWraith: and you have to do it to stay competitive
<2023-03-16T13:10:32.000Z> SaltWraith: this is the same problem as games like Magic or Yugioh have. people hate the new thing because it's always made to destroy the old meta so the players are forced to replace all of their shit even though they hate the direction
<2023-03-16T13:16:20.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: thats exactly why I just gave up playing in 9th
<2023-03-16T13:16:55.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: well, having a kid was part of it, but I just don't have time (and now money) to be chasing the meta with how often it changes now
<2023-03-16T13:18:12.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: all the shit I was running in 8th ed, that I had finally gotten pretty solid with, was no longer usable, or needed to be re-configured
<2023-03-16T13:19:07.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: at least with card games, you just switch cards.  with tabletop you gotta build the kits, then paint them, and I'm not a fast painter lol
<2023-03-16T13:20:59.000Z> SaltWraith: well that's the nice thing about Gundams. there's no game to be played with them, so you can just get the ones you want, go as fast or slow as you want and completely ignore the existence of the ones you don't like
<2023-03-16T13:22:55.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: thats where I'm at now, although I still miss the game a lot and it's hard to get past thinking that way when I'm building stuff to paint.  like, this guy would look really cool with these weapons, but then it won't be playable.
<2023-03-16T13:23:57.000Z> SaltWraith: have you checked the mods for the first Dawn of War game?
<2023-03-16T13:24:07.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: no
<2023-03-16T13:24:37.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I haven't played a PC game in almost 2 years though
<2023-03-16T13:25:24.000Z> SaltWraith: well that one is a game from like 2004 so it wouldn't take anything to run. they've backported so much stuff in to it that it's crazy
<2023-03-16T13:26:23.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I got really into Dark Crusade in college
<2023-03-16T13:27:45.000Z> SaltWraith: the thing is I don't really like RTSes, I only like turn based strategy like Xcom
<2023-03-16T13:28:21.000Z> SaltWraith: they did release a pretty good one last year called Chaos Gate Daemon Hunters, which is about Grey Knights VS nurgle bullshit
<2023-03-16T13:28:33.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: one of the first games I ever played was starcraft, so DoW was great too, I do like turn based more though
<2023-03-16T13:28:55.000Z> SaltWraith: my two problems with it is that I wish there was more content variety in it and also the enemy is nurgle shit, and nothing excites me less than fighting Nurgle
<2023-03-16T13:29:25.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I need to see if my computer can even run the new space marine game when it comes out
<2023-03-16T13:29:46.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah never been a fan of nurgle stuff either
<2023-03-16T13:30:42.000Z> SaltWraith: who knows. considering it's a Focus Home Interactive game I'm sure it'll be glitchy and not well optimized
<2023-03-16T13:30:42.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: although I'll grant Inquisitor Martyr an exception on that
<2023-03-16T13:31:14.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I have another kid on the way soon, so maybe by the time I get around to playing it, they'll have all the bugs fixed
<2023-03-16T13:31:19.000Z> SaltWraith: like they released that one Necromunda FPS like a year or two ago and it's quite depressing because it's ALMOST a good gmae
<2023-03-16T13:32:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: a new game that doesn't have dozens of problems seems like a rarity now
<2023-03-16T13:33:04.000Z> SaltWraith: those Focus Home Interactive games are particularly sneaky though, because they've really mastered making the games look right with the 40k aesthetic, but not everything else
<2023-03-16T13:33:55.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: one of my favorite scenes from the End & the Death was Abbadon trying to tell dudes that everything is broken lol  never liked abbadon but man, that one resonates
<2023-03-16T13:34:29.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: did Focus do the first one?
<2023-03-16T13:35:32.000Z> SaltWraith: no, the first one was made by Relic, and they're owned by Sega now. These are different people making the second one
<2023-03-16T13:35:50.000Z> SaltWraith: oh yeah did you ever read the ADB Black Legion novels?
<2023-03-16T13:36:12.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I have not, also on my list though after reading the night lords trilogy
<2023-03-16T13:37:48.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: he was quite the asshole in the 2nd NL book lol
<2023-03-16T13:39:46.000Z> SaltWraith: those NL books actually make for a really nice contrast
<2023-03-16T13:41:20.000Z> SaltWraith: because in the Black Legion novels, it's from their perspective and all about how they're specialest boys and how good and cool and handsome they are and how they're super justified and don't you dare insinuate this is just them repeating their dad's dumbass mistakes and how they're NOT slaves to chaos
<2023-03-16T13:41:52.000Z> SaltWraith: but then in the NL ones even the guys from the serial killer legion look at them and are like "you people are so soaked in chaos juju and you don't even realize it. we're out"
<2023-03-16T15:51:08.000Z> SaltWraith: oh yeah, if you have the Epic Store thing, you can get W40k Gladius Relics of War for free this week. it's not bad, it's a hex based turn based strategy sort of like civ, but 40k
<2023-03-16T15:51:36.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: love civ
<2023-03-16T15:51:51.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I don't remember if I'm on Epic
<2023-03-19T11:07:09.000Z> SaltWraith: oh yeah did you ever read the Primarchs novel about Alpharius? that one might actually be the best one in the entire subseries
<2023-03-19T17:27:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I didn’t know they had one for him
<2023-03-19T17:27:32.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I read the sanguinius one obviously, haven’t gotten to any of the others yet
<2023-03-19T17:32:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Also wtf Pokémon.  $35 for DLC on a game that still has serious bugs lol
<2023-03-19T17:42:27.000Z> SaltWraith: Most of the Primarchs subseries is not that great because they're bait and switch novels that promise you to tell you the deepest, dankest lore on a primarch but in reality that's the last thing they want to do because the real dank revelations could be sold better in the main series.
<2023-03-19T17:44:36.000Z> SaltWraith: The ones I did like is the Perturabo one, because I really like Perturabo and the novel is really good except for one achilles heel that does ruin it slightly. The Kurze one is interesting, it's the one about him coping and sneeding and dialating and arguing with an effigy of the Emperor while waiting for the assassinorum assassin to finally put him out of his misery.
<2023-03-19T17:45:59.000Z> SaltWraith: The Alpharius one is fantastic because it actually DOES deliver on a lot of really dank lore and backstory for him. It's told from one of the twin's perspective up to the day he finally meets Omegon.
<2023-03-19T17:55:19.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Nice, that sounds interesting
<2023-03-19T17:56:46.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: The sanguinius one was decent, but I don’t even remember it being about the primarch a lot, it seemed more focused on the early legion, which is great if you’re a BA fan but it just seemed a little wierd for a primarch book
<2023-03-19T17:57:24.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I need to listen again though, I don’t remember much about it, I think I was listening at work and was distracted
<2023-03-19T18:00:00.000Z> SaltWraith: A lot of them are like that. Hell even the Valdor novel kinda lied in that they made it sounds like it was going to be about the war for unity but in reality the war was pretty much over
<2023-03-19T18:01:02.000Z> SaltWraith: the Sigismund novel is pretty disappointing because it tries to give you his background story while also trying to dodge actually trying to explain his psychology or the nature of his belief
<2023-03-19T18:01:57.000Z> SaltWraith: And it's like... it's not that I need these things to be told to me necessarily, but then don't write a novel about him if it's fluff that wants to sidestep the thing that people actually would want to read about
<2023-03-19T18:08:57.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Yeah
<2023-03-23T12:28:23.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: games workshop still knows how to pull me back in, even if just a little lol
<2023-03-23T12:28:55.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: wasn't expecting them to return the Lion today
<2023-03-23T14:10:01.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean, when they brought back Guilliman, bringing back Lionel was more of a question of when rather than if considering he was one of the two loyalist Primarchs who's status was known
<2023-03-23T14:10:37.000Z> SaltWraith: I never liked him or his legion, though
<2023-03-23T14:21:58.000Z> SaltWraith: Actually there is a lot of creative potential in bringing him back, I just don't really know if they can reach any of it with how rushed and mangled GW's attempts to forward the main storyline of modern 40k is
<2023-03-23T14:24:50.000Z> SaltWraith: Like to me Lionel was always a loser who just got lucky and managed to hide his failures because bigger and worse things were going on, and he is pretty ambitious, and he did always appear as Big E's mini me, so I could see him appealing to some factions of the imperium more than Bobby G because Bobby G is a starchy facts and logic classical liberal while Lionel would probably be way more in to the idea of being treated like a messiah.
<2023-03-23T14:33:44.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: almost setting up a new Imperium Secundus in the 'dark' half of the galaxy if they team up reborn Dante with Lion
<2023-03-23T14:46:46.000Z> SaltWraith: And then have another civil war? Hachfraud Johnson VS Big Libtard Bobby G? Crashing the Imperium with no survivors?
<2023-03-23T14:50:36.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: eh idk about that.  g man and dark johnson both have a lot of skeletons in their closets.  not like either one could really claim the moral high ground well enough to start a full blown civil war
<2023-03-23T14:51:22.000Z> SaltWraith: I think I'm also just really biased because I want Dorn back.
<2023-03-23T14:53:34.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: that would make for some interesting confrontations
<2023-03-23T14:54:41.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: or he could just build a giant space bug screen to hold back a galaxy's worth of tyranids that are apparently about to eat everything
<2023-03-23T14:57:07.000Z> SaltWraith: I have it now... The Last Bequin novel... They confront Valdor and his extra dimensional super galactic fortress.. And Valdor is like "You idiots, did you really think I could build all of this on my own?", and then Dorn comes out and they do the Megapowers handshake as you see the giant space net breaking in to real space.
<2023-03-23T16:08:19.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I like it.  'yellow king'
<2023-03-23T16:15:10.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean it's better than the theory about him secretly becoming a Custodies and doing nothing but washing Big E with a rag on a stick for the past 10k years
<2023-03-23T19:54:34.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I'm quite interested in how End & the Death 2 might tie in with the last Bequin book.
<2023-03-23T20:17:13.000Z> SaltWraith: I imagine it'll mostly be in the Grammaticus and Valdor storylines
<2023-03-23T20:20:31.000Z> SaltWraith: And also I've been thinking about that thing I said about Dorn and Valdor teaming up and honestly I don't think it's the most absurd thing that could happen. They're both pretty autistic, they both love Big E but hate the religious stuff. I could imagine Valdor being like "hey Dorn, maybe chasing after the Iron Autist is actually myopic small potato shit compared to what we COULD do"
<2023-03-23T20:33:15.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Abnett does like to go big, I could see it
<2023-03-23T20:36:08.000Z> SaltWraith: He does like to go big, but I'm sure the marketing department would have some trepidations about bringing Dorn back in a way that wouldn't also result in a whole new Imperial Fists army.
<2023-03-23T20:36:57.000Z> SaltWraith: But then again they did also bring Corvus Corax as some sort of shadow wraith so who knows
<2023-03-23T20:37:38.000Z> SaltWraith: It would still be a way cooler way to bring Dorn back than if he turned out to have hidden with the custodians and done nothing while the imperium faced crisis after crisis
<2023-03-24T16:13:31.000Z> SaltWraith: Today I went to a gaming store to get new headphones and a controller, and they had some Warhammer stuff. They had like a whole Custodies army for 170 euros and I was both disgusted and tempted. But no nigger, that's way too expensive.
<2023-03-24T16:17:54.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: like a box set?
<2023-03-24T16:35:37.000Z> SaltWraith: Yes a box set. They also had a questoris knight and some tanks and nids and some starter sets
<2023-03-24T16:38:07.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the Necron battleforce box I bought a couple years back was like $200USD
<2023-03-24T16:38:40.000Z> SaltWraith: yeah that's about the same price. they also had some battle sisters army for the same price
<2023-03-24T16:38:44.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: shits just expensive now
<2023-03-24T16:38:53.000Z> SaltWraith: I'm not buying any of this
<2023-03-24T16:39:07.000Z> SaltWraith: I'll just buy the RE4 remake instead
<2023-03-24T16:39:12.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: fuck a single character was like $35-40 last I checked
<2023-03-24T16:39:54.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: GW makes really nice stuff, I don't mind paying a premium for it if they're good kits, but man it's getting pretty out of hand now
<2023-03-24T16:40:52.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: wargameexclusive.com/shop/mechanic-adepts/mechanic-adept-scitari-extension-kit-10-u/
<2023-03-24T16:41:45.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I got these for my ranger kits, extra $20 gets you double the models out of the $50 GW kit
<2023-03-24T16:44:21.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I ordered them right before Russia invaded Ukraine and I was worried I was never going to see them lol.
<2023-03-26T22:25:52.000Z> SaltWraith: Did you ever read the Horus Heresy novel Ruinstorm? The one about Bobby G, Sanguinius and the Lion going "fuck it" and deciding to just brute force their way through the warp storm to get back to Terra?
<2023-03-27T00:02:13.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Yeah, that had a bunch of blood angels lore, possibly with the sanguinor
<2023-03-27T00:03:30.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Been a while though, I need to reread the whole imperium secundus arc 
<2023-03-27T09:37:09.000Z> SaltWraith: It's also the one where Conrad gets unceremoniously booted from the Horus Heresy by being put in a coffin and kicked out in to space where he floats around aimlessly for like a thousand years
<2023-03-27T09:37:42.000Z> SaltWraith: That one is like... It's a cool premise for a novel and I like parts of it, but it also could have been a lot better
<2023-03-27T09:39:49.000Z> SaltWraith: Like Guilliman's moral dilemma is actually pretty funny because somehow galaxy brain super statesman is having a really hard time figuring out that he can just take the magic murder knife but not use it. Especially considering there's nothing around there that he couldn't kill already because he's a fucking primarch
<2023-03-27T13:00:21.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I don't even remember that part, I think I'm gonna have to have another go through that whole arc.  I remember Ruinstorm having a lot of stuff going on, but I think my focus was more on the Blood Angels parts.
<2023-03-27T13:07:47.000Z> SaltWraith: I also have a dark confession to make... I didn't really enjoy Scars or The Praetorian of Dorn that much
<2023-03-27T13:18:13.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the only interesting thing from Scars was the little bit of lore on the golden throne/webway.  I barely remember anything from that book
<2023-03-27T13:18:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: praetorian of dorn had the dorn vs alpharius/omegon/?? fight right?
<2023-03-27T13:26:33.000Z> SaltWraith: yes that's the only memorable thing about Praetorian of Dorn, the fact that Rogal killed one of the Alpha twins. And that's cool and all, but the rest of the book is fucking boring. And it's a shame, because in theory I'd totally be in to having sort of a spy thriller set in Terra's solar system, but it's just convoluted and mostly unsatisfying
<2023-03-27T13:28:27.000Z> SaltWraith: Oh speaking of other disappointments... Titandeath is a total wet fart. They hyped the battle of Beta Garamon up real hard, but then the actual battle is like... Some feminist titan legion, Sanguinius flying around yelling "I DO NOT DIE HERE TODAY" and a very young, mostly flesh Bellasarius Cawl doing.. something
<2023-03-27T13:28:36.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah Legion was really good I thought
<2023-03-27T13:29:31.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah, the latter half of the heresy series is very hit or miss, or I guess more accurately, a lot of misses with a couple good nuggets
<2023-03-27T13:29:54.000Z> SaltWraith: I liked Buried Dagger
<2023-03-27T13:30:38.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah at least they finished strong
<2023-03-27T13:30:54.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: and I'm not generally a fan of death guard, but they were at least interesting in the heresy
<2023-03-27T13:31:16.000Z> SaltWraith: I hate the Death Guard, Mortarion is a big stinky knacker
<2023-03-27T13:31:40.000Z> SaltWraith: But at least that book had a pretty cool season finale for Malcador's knights
<2023-03-27T13:31:54.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the Dark Imperium books at least made nurgle demons fun though, they were kinda likable
<2023-03-27T13:33:16.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: but death guard/nurgle in general is all just kinda boring because it just turns into 'how do I describe the most gross and disgusting stuff in new and creative ways'
<2023-03-27T13:33:50.000Z> SaltWraith: they're also not fun to fight because they're slow, tanky and shit poison everywhere
<2023-03-27T13:34:41.000Z> SaltWraith: there's that Chaos Gate game they released last year and I like it, it's a pretty good Xcom but with Grey Knights game. except all your enemies are Nurgle shit so they're all tanky and you constantly get pelted with status effects and it's just very annoying
<2023-03-27T13:35:09.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I liked the corruption arc in Flight of the Eisenstein where the marine finally turns into a fucking great unclean one or whatever it was
<2023-03-27T13:36:11.000Z> SaltWraith: oh yeah and then after that there's a short story about Garro and the medic marine fighting that demon again on Luna
<2023-03-27T13:42:29.000Z> SaltWraith: I really like Arkhan Land
<2023-03-27T14:02:46.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: that last Seige book he was in was great.
<2023-03-27T14:03:35.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: probably the most memorable character in the book for me
<2023-03-27T14:05:25.000Z> SaltWraith: I also liked him in Master of Mankind.
<2023-03-27T14:05:54.000Z> SaltWraith: Arkhan Land is the best point of view character for normal people because at least he's an actual person with a personality and worldview.
<2023-03-27T14:07:07.000Z> SaltWraith: Unlike that Hideo or whatever the fuck his name is. Like who the fuck wants to read about this extremely generic nobody having the most stock war movie arc possible. I just dont' care and skip until a named space marine shows up
<2023-03-27T14:07:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: He's also very relatable in a certain sense, albeit an extreme.  What happens when a nerd ends up right in the middle of an apocalyptic battle with almost no hope of survival.  well, he shits his pants and cries.  and then he still finds it in him to do his duty.
<2023-03-27T14:10:42.000Z> SaltWraith: He's not even really a coward, it's more that he's in such an extreme situation that it would be impossible not to crack.
<2023-03-27T14:10:50.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: exactly
<2023-03-27T14:11:46.000Z> SaltWraith: That's actually also true of Ciaphas Cain. Ciaphas Cain is not a coward, he just has very reasonable reactions and the entirely understandable desire to not be near every single horrible thing the universe can vomit out.
<2023-03-27T14:14:40.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it's kind of the reason I don't like nurgle/death guard stuff, at least when it involves human troops.  humans fighting in that level of pure disgusting and gross environments just doesn't seem believable.  I guess you could make the argument with all chaos factions, as they're all by nature incomprehensible, but it's especially so with nurgle
<2023-03-27T14:17:44.000Z> SaltWraith: Well a lot of 40k novels give the soldiers almost space marine moral constitution. To be honest this is why I like but don't love the Gaunt's Ghosts novels. Gaunt is too much of a perfect moral and physical gigachad and it kinda makes it boring
<2023-03-27T14:18:21.000Z> SaltWraith: Also I think the Slaanesh stuff would be the most psychologically damaging because it's like "I'm both horrified and I'm getting a massive bogner. help"
<2023-03-27T14:27:36.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah the tabletop game had this down better
<2023-03-27T14:31:13.000Z> SaltWraith: Like the whole idea about Cain being a coward is a meme repeated by people who never actually read the books or thought about it in context. Cain isn't a clown, and he's not a pussy either. Sure, he's nowhere near the infinite bravery and perfection of Gaunt, but that's why I like him. Cain sees a World Eater get teleported in and he has the totally reasonable response of "Oh god I don't want to head forward, fuck that"
<2023-03-27T14:36:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: i mean, regular humans had a hard time keeping it together around 'friendly' space marines
<2023-03-27T14:38:37.000Z> SaltWraith: Yeah, it feels like a lot of the non Horus Heresy stuff often forgets about "transhuman dread" even though it's a great concept and entirely logical
<2023-03-27T14:39:36.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean it's like if you've never seen a horse IRL, only in pictures or video, but then when you're actually next to one only then you realize how big and strong they are
<2023-03-27T14:40:30.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: oh for sure
<2023-03-27T14:43:09.000Z> SaltWraith: Hell even like a tech magos who's given himself doctor cocktopus robot arms and a big gnarly robot face would probably make me shit myself if I was near that for real
<2023-03-27T14:46:29.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: absolutely
<2023-03-27T14:48:40.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: our perspective is very focused at our own scale for evolutionary or whatever reasons.  going beyond that is very difficult for most people
<2023-03-27T14:50:40.000Z> SaltWraith: I had a friend who was really in to UFO bullshit and I made him extremely mad when I told him about how improbable humanoid aliens are considering the thousands of different variables that would influence evolution on a planet
<2023-03-27T14:52:51.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: assuming that evolution is the only such mechanism
<2023-03-27T14:56:25.000Z> SaltWraith: well this guy was a lefty who hated his dad so obviously it could only be evolution to him
<2023-03-27T14:56:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: lol
<2023-03-27T15:04:45.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: >Like the whole idea about Cain being a coward is a meme repeated by people who never actually read the books or thought about it in context.This happens a lot.  I just finished Revolt Against the Modern World and it's hilarious that it gets brought up in nationalist circles because the book is basically anti-nationalist and essentially calls nationalists dumb.  Aside from talking about ancient Aryan people extensively (and in a way that is completely contrary to how modern nationalists understand it as far as I can tell) I have no idea why the book even gets brought up unless people only read the title lol 
<2023-03-27T15:08:10.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: giving humanity the internet, while not giving them extensive training in how to use it is basically the equivalent of how planets in 40k accidentally dabble in chaos stuff that they don't understand and, oops, we opened up a warp rift and now we're all dead.
<2023-03-27T15:08:14.000Z> SaltWraith: Well you can still get valuable data from books that you don't necessarily agree with. Like the thing about Marxists is that while their values are shitty and gay, the one thing they're good at is critiquing existing systems. So while you can ignore both the values that the writer has when going in to a subject and you should skip their value judgements at the end, there is still a middle part that is quite useful because they do actually find interesting and true critiques.
<2023-03-27T15:09:27.000Z> SaltWraith: But to my non wignat right wing friends, this effectively makes me Eisenhorn to them. "this nigga dabbling in bad juju books"
<2023-03-27T15:09:49.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah lol
<2023-03-27T15:11:41.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: i've never read Marx
<2023-03-27T15:11:50.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: not sure if it's worth it at this point lol
<2023-03-27T15:12:02.000Z> SaltWraith: I remember brining up some of the observations from America Against America to someone but as soon as I mentioned that it's from a thing written by a CCP gook they immediately started mentally blocking it out
<2023-03-27T15:12:43.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah, we're not gonna get past that gag reflex until all the boomers and a lot of Xers are gone
<2023-03-27T15:13:35.000Z> SaltWraith: It isn't, and Marx is pretty furstrating to read with your brain on because he makes constant moral judgements while at the same time arguing for the destruction of all institutions because they enforce some form of morality on to people. It's like... "Hey Karl... where do YOU derive YOUR morals from?"
<2023-03-27T15:16:08.000Z> SaltWraith: But the French marxists who came after Marx are actually sometimes okay.
<2023-03-27T15:19:14.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah that is basically what i've always heard
<2023-03-27T15:25:05.000Z> SaltWraith: Jean Baudrillard wrote in a way that may have made a lot of his points more unnecessarily complicated than they needed to be, but he still had a lot of really great observations about the media and just how much of people's perception of reality is made through abstractions and media.
<2023-03-27T15:26:17.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I read borzoi's book, so I'm familiar with Baudrillard lol
<2023-03-27T15:27:44.000Z> SaltWraith: Borpsoy has ridden the Baudrillard horse pretty hard, yeah
<2023-03-27T15:28:03.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: there was a whole chapter/article about the desert of the real
<2023-03-27T15:28:43.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: which I never knew the Matrix reference came from him, or how much of his work was incorporated into the movie
<2023-03-27T15:30:33.000Z> SaltWraith: Matrix is in general a great movie born entirely out of those two trannies stealing everything that was just obscure enough for them to get away with it
<2023-03-27T15:30:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: thats one of the aspects of 40k that I love the most actually.  so much of it is drawn from all manner of other work, it's really interesting to be reading something about, say, roman history and already understand how some of their organizations and stuff work because it was heavily referenced in 40k
<2023-03-27T15:31:06.000Z> SaltWraith: You ever read Dune?
<2023-03-27T15:34:03.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I haven't
<2023-03-27T15:34:14.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I played the RTS back in the day lol
<2023-03-27T15:34:51.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it was one of those things where I didn't know if I would appreciate it after getting so far into 40k just because so much was 'borrowed'
<2023-03-27T15:35:51.000Z> SaltWraith: Nah, it's still pretty good. The first 4 novels are pretty interesting and while 40k has stolen a lot from it, it's also very different. And the broader arc of Dune is very interesting.
<2023-03-27T19:29:07.000Z> SaltWraith: By the way, did you know that they killed Nathaniel Garro?
<2023-03-27T19:31:28.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I thought I read something about that, but I don't remember it happening
<2023-03-27T19:32:38.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: was it in one of the novellas?
<2023-03-27T21:38:41.000Z> SaltWraith: apparently. I read it on that lexarcanum wiki. it doesn't sound particularly interesting to be honest
<2023-03-27T21:39:38.000Z> SaltWraith: he has a final showdown with Mortarion, Mortarion kills him but not before Garro stabs Mortarion in the throat with his broken power sword and it makes Mortarion ragequit the siege of Terra
<2023-03-27T21:40:16.000Z> SaltWraith: I think it's Loken who references Garro being dead in The End and the Death Part 1
<2023-03-27T21:41:51.000Z> SaltWraith: I liked Garro and considering he was said to be "the first martyr of the lecticio divinatus" I was hoping for something grander than a showdown with Mr.Stinky after Mr.Stinky already got battered by Jagathai Khan and was fine with that being the end for his run in the Siege
<2023-03-28T01:58:31.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: he deserved better
<2023-03-28T02:01:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: He was directly responsible for saving the entire imperium
<2023-03-28T02:01:41.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Many such cases, sure, but he was probably the first
<2023-03-28T09:13:35.000Z> SaltWraith: It's also lame because Loken also has a "I must face my gene-sire" arc, but Loken's is way more compelling than Garro and Mister Stinky
<2023-03-28T09:14:31.000Z> SaltWraith: like Garro pretty much never fit in to Mortarion's version of the Legion to begin with
<2023-03-29T09:15:53.000Z> SaltWraith: Speaking of characters who suck.. Do you remember Yasu Nagasena?
<2023-04-03T16:22:33.000Z> SaltWraith: I've been re-reading Eisenhorn : The Magos and there's actually a piece of very subtle foreshadowing in it. The cognitae base inside the extimate space has windows that are too high for normal humans and the architecture has a similar psychological effect as the Yellow King's base.
<2023-04-03T16:27:23.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: interesting, been a while since I read that
<2023-04-03T16:28:19.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: makes sense, the King was using the cognitae for a long time
<2023-04-03T16:33:06.000Z> SaltWraith: And they do explicitly say that the structure is like 1600 years old and that the cognitae running it now haven't been there from the beginning
<2023-04-03T16:40:18.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: my question is, would GW actually give Dan Abnett the green light to bring back a lost primarch in bequin 3?  I'm still wondering if the mentions in book 2 were just red herrings or could they be something substantial?
<2023-04-03T16:45:37.000Z> SaltWraith: I have no idea. The lost primarchs were always the "create a character" slot, but as time goes on and their greed goes, I could imagine them just going "Okay we want more money... Let's make a new primarch"
<2023-04-03T16:49:37.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: idk if it's even greedy at this point.  a lot of the setting is getting stale in some ways.  I think it would be an interesting topic to finally broach.
<2023-04-03T16:51:22.000Z> SaltWraith: It could be this thing. I don
<2023-04-03T16:51:48.000Z> SaltWraith: I don't know if you've ever heard of it.. But this is essentially another lost primarch that isn't one of the two missing numbers
<2023-04-03T16:51:49.000Z> SaltWraith: wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Angel
<2023-04-03T16:59:29.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: ah, the old lore
<2023-04-03T16:59:42.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: proto-sanguinius
<2023-04-03T17:01:20.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean it's a way for them to have their cake and eat it too. It's a lost primarch, but not a lost number, and it would tie up a loose end because technically most of the old lore is still canon even if it's never referenced.
<2023-04-03T17:01:27.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: that would be interesting, given the winged astartes in book 2
<2023-04-03T17:02:25.000Z> SaltWraith: book 2 has so many mysteries but of course the Valdor masterplan absorbs almost all of the oxygen in the room
<2023-04-03T17:04:13.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah, I think the big reveal in the literal last sentence was the right call, even though I hate it lol
<2023-04-03T17:07:52.000Z> SaltWraith: there's so much stuff in that book. the mysterious blood angel with actual sanguinius wings, the super team of loyalist and traitor legion magic marines, Bequin's old teacher who may or may not be Lilian Chase.. There's also those Word Bearers and Fulgrim perverts who also have a presence on the planet.
<2023-04-03T17:08:38.000Z> SaltWraith: honestly I don't know if you could even resolve all of that in just one more book, and honestly I would be happy if there were other books related to this
<2023-04-03T17:12:07.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: don't forget multiple eldar craftworlds about ready to fuck shit up
<2023-04-03T17:13:10.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: this shit is what Marvel whishes it could be lol
<2023-04-03T17:14:08.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean to be fair it's also what the Battle of Beta Garamon wanted to be but wasn't
<2023-04-03T17:16:53.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: if that were ever a movie, they'd have Michael Bay direct it lol
<2023-04-03T17:18:10.000Z> SaltWraith: They did threaten us with an Eisenhorn TV series a few years ago
<2023-04-03T17:18:16.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yes
<2023-04-03T17:18:33.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: and then never mentioned it again once they launched their own streaming service
<2023-04-03T17:19:05.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: at least not that I've seen
<2023-04-03T17:19:15.000Z> SaltWraith: Considering the Netflix producer for it was mega jewish, I'm happy that it's never been mentioned again.
<2023-04-03T17:19:23.000Z> SaltWraith: And covid probably also didn't help.
<2023-04-03T17:20:36.000Z> SaltWraith: The sad thing is, the Eisenhorn novels actually would adapt really well in to a TV series script format and it is about the best vertical slice you have for the universe of 40k.
<2023-04-03T17:21:20.000Z> EssentialUtinsil attached file https://i.poastcdn.org/2cba07381964f152a44ad735ddee5bc8e256796afbe267d7bf42a2beb4ec78c2.png
<2023-04-03T17:21:48.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: sounds like still early-planning phase
<2023-04-03T17:23:07.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: there's whatever show Henry Cavill is doing too
<2023-04-03T17:24:24.000Z> SaltWraith: I think in general Hollyjew is pretty conflicted about doing anything 40k. Like it is a universe where it doesn't really matter how many niggers and whamen you try to push to the front, because evil is a very real and very defined thing in it, and one of it's manifestations is drag queen storytime on steroids.
<2023-04-03T17:25:27.000Z> EssentialUtinsil attached file https://i.poastcdn.org/7cd7830e0df514be923167bf0283346384adeb9885f86dc0504b2b82080fbba4.png
<2023-04-03T17:25:37.000Z> SaltWraith: And they can cope and sneed and dilate as much as they want and say "it's a universe with no good guys", but they're wrong. Mankind is the hero race, fuck the eldar, they had their chance and the Tau are fucking bullshit faggots.
<2023-04-03T17:27:31.000Z> SaltWraith: I don't really doubt Cavill's sincerity, but I don't know if playing Superman and then watching Netflix ruin Witcher all around you is enough preparation to actually stop these jews from finding a way to fuck this one up too.
<2023-04-03T17:27:35.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: they do like to do the thing where they give you like a pretty good first season to get you hooked and excited, and then spend the next 7 destroying it and laughing.  it could just be pure humiliation to destroy something that is still mostly for white guys
<2023-04-03T17:29:43.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah Cavill seems like a decent guy as far as actors go, but he doesn't seem like the secretly woke type that you would need to be able to actually keep jews from ruining it.  you need to actually know who you're dealing with and what they're capable of, not just 'been in the industry for a while'.  
<2023-04-03T17:30:08.000Z> SaltWraith: I don't think you can torpedo 40k like that, though. Like the universe is far too deep and nuanced and has existed primarily in books for them to successfully humiliation ritual the whole thing with just one TV show.
<2023-04-03T17:30:40.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: they did it to Star Wars and comics
<2023-04-03T17:31:01.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: granted comics were already jewish
<2023-04-03T17:31:12.000Z> SaltWraith: Star Wars has a foundation that's a lot more shaky and it's always been kinda libtarded.
<2023-04-03T17:31:42.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah but it did have a fairly deep lore base in the novels
<2023-04-03T17:32:16.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: 40k would definitely be the hardest, it's just a different beast
<2023-04-03T17:32:47.000Z> SaltWraith: It did, but the thing is the jews didn't ruin the old lore for Star Wars technically, they just drew a line and said "The NEW and TRUE lore starts here"
<2023-04-03T17:36:29.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the problem is, they'll just be targeting a new younger audience.  they don't care if they piss off the old fans, because they'll complain loudly and keep buying their stuff. 
<2023-04-03T17:36:34.000Z> SaltWraith: Like 40k can't be torpedo'd like that, because to get rid of it's fundamentally illiberal aspects they'd essentially have to reboot the entire universe with completely different lore, and GW would never do that because it'd be suicide. Jews would want to somehow turn the demons in to oppressed niggers and make it in to another imperium=whitey, and whitey bad type thing, and it just wouldn't work.
<2023-04-03T17:38:09.000Z> SaltWraith: >the problem is, they'll just be targeting a new younger audience.  they don't care if they piss off the old fans, because they'll complain loudly and keep buying their stuff. 
<2023-04-03T17:39:54.000Z> SaltWraith: Are you saying that about Star Wars? It isn't really working for them though. Like if you look at merch sales, people only want stuff from the OT and prequels. Nobody gives a shit about any of the Disney stuff outside of the Mandalorian, and even then I don't know if the interest really extends beyond Baby Yoda plushies.
<2023-04-03T17:48:32.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: they keep doing it, so it has to be working on some level
<2023-04-03T17:53:46.000Z> SaltWraith: It's been nowhere near as successful as the Marvel stuff was. Like for Marvel it really took like 10 years and the actors/characters that people liked no longer being there for people to turn their backs on the MCU. Star Wars on the other hand had like one reboot movie that people were vaguely positive about, and then after that it went down the toilet. It hasn't been anywhere near as successful of a moneyprinter as Disney had hoped it would be.
<2023-04-03T17:56:04.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: i mean like esoteric spiteful jew levels where it's just about destroying things white people enjoy and spit it out as consoomer garbage for the brown hordes, even at a monetary loss
<2023-04-03T18:10:36.000Z> SaltWraith: I know, but they've been doing things shit like this at a loss for so long that WB and Disney are actually restructuring and actually feel pressured to try to make product that would actually sell again. The POZ cycle has reached a point where they have to dial it back to try to get people invested again.
<2023-04-03T18:22:58.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: GW has only nibbled on the poz sandwich thus far, I don't think they have the ideology embedded yet, so they're just doing sort of bare minimum stuff so far
<2023-04-03T18:39:06.000Z> SaltWraith: I think it's more that GW/BL is still a relatively small and niche company, so they wouldn't be able to sustain themselves if they had to take the inevitable losses if they went in to a "bold new tranny flag covered direction". There's no way that they don't know the fact that their growing popularity in the last 10 years has a lot to do with the illiberal nature of 40k.
<2023-04-03T19:07:16.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I have an audible credit, what do I want to listen to? hmm
<2023-04-03T20:15:50.000Z> SaltWraith: If you want a really good stand alone, The Reverie is really good and it's about a Blood Angels descendant chapter
<2023-04-03T20:17:43.000Z> SaltWraith: Alpharius Head of the Hydra is also really good and it delivers a lot of that sweet sweet LORE
<2023-04-03T20:20:37.000Z> SaltWraith: Oh yeah have you read The Infinite and the Divine? That one is also a pretty good stand alone.
<2023-04-12T08:50:27.000Z> SaltWraith: I'm trying to read Cadian Blood, which is an Aaron Dembski Bowden novel, and I've come to the realization that ADB is boring when there's no space marines. Like he's written some decent human characters in the past, but I don't think it's a good idea for him to do a novel composed just of them. It just reads like Gaunt's Ghosts but more edgy and angsty.
<2023-04-12T09:16:10.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’ve heard that before
<2023-04-12T09:25:13.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Abnett is almost the opposite, even his books that are marine centric still rely heavily on the human characters, and I’m not sure he would write as good a story without central human characters. 
<2023-04-12T09:35:29.000Z> SaltWraith: Brothers of the Snake is the one space marine novel Abnett has written that has almost no regular humans, and it's alright but that novel is less about the individual marines and more a spotlight about the general chapter culture of the Iron Snakes and about teasing you about who they may or may not be actual descendants of.
<2023-04-12T09:47:51.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Ah, I forgot about that one (haven’t read)
<2023-04-12T10:05:25.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Been up since 3am because my foot hurts and the immediate care doesn’t open till 8, which means it’ll be at least 9 before I even get somebody to look at it.  It’s gonna be a fun day.
<2023-04-12T10:06:22.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’m guessing it’s gonna be a ‘bitch about the state of US healthcare system’ kinda day
<2023-04-12T10:31:10.000Z> SaltWraith: Don't forget to pay 200$ for asperin because Uncle Sam refuses to do anything about the niggers who don't pay
<2023-04-12T10:48:18.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Gotta pay the tax
<2023-04-12T13:24:58.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’m fortunate to have a hospital nearby that’s right outside a really wealthy suburb so most of their patients are well-to-do upper middle class whites and the occasional talented 10th 
<2023-04-12T13:27:25.000Z> SaltWraith: I live in an ex soviet country and my uncle is an esteemed surgeon, so my family has always enjoyed certain benefits because as a part of the doctor mafia, my uncle can just call in favors whenever someone in the family has a medical emergency.
<2023-04-12T13:28:50.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I never thought of this when I bought my house years ago, but it’s quite an important thing to make sure you have access to decent healthcare
<2023-04-12T13:29:21.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: This is the first I’ve been to a doctor since like 2009
<2023-04-12T13:31:04.000Z> SaltWraith: Yeah I haven't been to a GP in at least a decade now
<2023-04-12T13:33:34.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Last time I went was also to immediate care for a tonsil infection that didn’t go away
<2023-04-12T13:36:00.000Z> SaltWraith: mostly I've just had stuff like flu and the coof
<2023-04-12T13:36:58.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: My wife was very concerned that I actually needed to go in lol. She knows how stubborn I am.
<2023-04-12T13:39:45.000Z> SaltWraith: well sometimes spooky stuff happens. like we had a family friend who died of a pancreas issue suddenly. he had been complaining about feeling not that great but he just thought it was general exhaustion from work and getting older
<2023-04-12T15:06:34.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Well I have gout and high blood pressure, so that’s concerning
<2023-04-12T16:00:51.000Z> SaltWraith: Sadly all I can think about whenever I read the word "gout" is DarkSydePhil
<2023-04-17T22:58:46.000Z> SaltWraith: They already churned out a novel about the return of The Lion apparently
<2023-04-18T09:28:53.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Yeah I expected that when they revealed the model
<2023-04-18T09:29:16.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’m gonna read it and see if it’s any good
<2023-04-18T09:59:21.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean, I saw that it's written by Mike Brooks so my expectations are low. Most of the things he wrote are forgettable. The only thing I remember is Brutal Kunnin, which is a book told mostly from the ork perspective. It's kinda funny in some parts but ultimately still bland
<2023-04-18T14:10:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I've never got into orks.  I listened to the audio drama of Ragnar fighting Gaz (when they dropped the new models) and it was terrible lol.  was the first thing I returned on Audible.
<2023-04-18T14:13:02.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: was also terrible lore wise, they do this whole story of Ragnar going to challenge Gaz, at the end he decapitates Gaz but gets mortally wounded in the process and the marine telling the tale ends the story basically with dead Ragnar slumped over on decapitated Gaz.  but then apparently neither are actually dead, although it's not part of that story.  they went full retarded comic book 'nobody ever dies' with that one in the worst way.
<2023-04-18T14:31:10.000Z> SaltWraith: I like the orks as an enemy but I can't say I really give a shit about their perspective the same way I don't give a shit about the inner politics of a nigger community outside of laughing at them
<2023-04-18T14:31:29.000Z> SaltWraith: but also I've told you this before but I spit on the fucking space wolves and wish they were all dead
<2023-04-18T14:31:52.000Z> SaltWraith: what a garbage legion full of mega faggots
<2023-04-18T14:32:30.000Z> SaltWraith: like if you ignore the viking aesthetic, they just behave like niggers who constantly have to make everything in to a dick measuring contest
<2023-04-18T14:34:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I liked how they were portrayed in Prospero Burns, but from the little bit of other stuff I've read, most other lore is much more ham-fisted in their treatment
<2023-04-18T14:35:54.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: part of their whole thing was everyone thought they were dumb savages, and they sort of played along like they were.  All the space viking shit made sense and was a little more measured in that book.  now they
<2023-04-18T14:36:22.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: they're just full on meme hurr durr space viking 
<2023-04-18T14:43:25.000Z> SaltWraith: well they do this specific nigger thing that rapefugees do in Europe where they intentionally pretend to be stupider and that they don't know the rules purely to get someone to say something so they can use it to grievance monger
<2023-04-18T14:44:33.000Z> SaltWraith: and I just don't care. I want all the space wolves to be buckbroken and Leman Russ is a big fag. He's in the same boat as the Lion where he acts like's tough shit but really he's never actually done that much
<2023-04-18T14:44:53.000Z> SaltWraith: Him and the Lion both posture a lot but what the fuck are their real achievements?
<2023-04-18T14:47:21.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: well Russ got his ass kicked and contributed fuck all to the defense of Terra, the Lion probably could've come clean about his shady methods to navigate warpstorms sooner and maybe him and Guilliman could've made it in time.
<2023-04-18T14:49:20.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: 40k is just full of that shit though.  the Emperor made a fuck load of stupid mistakes that basically led to all this in the first place and yet he's a god
<2023-04-18T14:51:47.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I get the dilemma of not telling the primarchs the true nature of the Warp, but like, all you had to do was just tell Magnus what your plan was for him and the webway project and you woudn't have been stuck holding back a warp rift while your favorite kid burns the galaxy down coming to kill you.
<2023-04-18T14:54:03.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean I get not telling people like Dorn because Dorn really doesn't need to know about the warp, but with Magnus it's like... Big E, maybe keep the guy who you want to eventually hang out on the throne for the rest of time in your confidence
<2023-04-18T14:56:28.000Z> SaltWraith: But with the Lion I just feel like he ended up doing a massive confidence con by accident where people just trust him inherently because he's like the Emeperor's Mini-Me while conveniently ignoring the fact that he just lucked out for the most part
<2023-04-18T16:14:07.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: same goes for the Dark Angels, they are seemingly constantly fucking over their allies to protect their 'big ugly secret' but they are still looked at as upstanding loyalists
<2023-04-18T16:15:48.000Z> SaltWraith: I really don't like the Dark Angels either but at least because they're a paranoid gaggle of assholes they keep to themselves so I can just ignore their novels and never miss anything
<2023-04-18T16:17:26.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I want to like them because of the 'space knights' vibe and they're almost a sort of counterpoint to the alpha legion but it seems like most of their lore hasn't been done all that well
<2023-04-18T16:22:49.000Z> SaltWraith: I always got the impression that the big difference between the Alphas and the Dark Angels was that the Alphas were actually good at their glownigger shit and actually have an idea of where they're going while the Dark Angels just chase their own tail and probably fuck the Imperium over in the grander scheme by their perpetual secret bullshit
<2023-04-18T16:27:33.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah pretty much.  Alphas were made for it, the DA seem forced into it because of all their fuckups
<2023-04-18T16:33:00.000Z> SaltWraith: I doubt they'll do it but I always liked the idea of The Lion as a complete opportunist piece of shit who was essentially hedging his bet all the way up to the siege of terra and would totally just throw his hat in with whoever is coming out on top
<2023-04-18T16:33:44.000Z> SaltWraith: But then Luther put him in a coma and once he gets resurrected 10k years later, it's kinda like how Kaiser Sose walks out unpunished in The Usual Suspects
<2023-04-18T17:21:37.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: was reading reddit lore stuff and my mind is blown at this analogy of the Emperor as the Greek Prometheus myth, where after giving fire to mankind he is imprisoned (on the golden throne) with an eagle pecking at his side forever (the eagle being the Imperium)
<2023-04-18T17:38:31.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: also it's possible that the Lion was just being his pragmatic & autistic self and fucked off to cut off traitor supply routes instead of fighting on Terra and wasn't hedging or anything.  I've always seen him more as just a tactics sperg but in a different way than someone like Perterabo.
<2023-04-18T17:58:37.000Z> SaltWraith: I love Perturabo. I think of all the primarchs, he is the most like a classical greek tragedy where he's doomed by his very nature yet you can always see how with just a few different steps, he could have just as well stayed on the imperium side.
<2023-04-18T18:33:08.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I think one of my all time favorite 'scenes' in 40k is where he's showing Fulgrim his functional scale model of a titan...an absolute mind-blowingly impossible engineering feat...and then he smashes Fulgrim's face into it lol
<2023-04-18T21:35:16.000Z> SaltWraith: And it's not even that unreasonable because who WOULDN'T want to beat the shit out of Fulgrim because he's a very annoying faggot
<2023-04-22T15:32:45.000Z> SaltWraith: Alright, I have used WARP SORCERY to get the book about the Lion's return. Let's find out if it's shit or not.
<2023-04-22T17:45:52.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I think I’ll be joining you, I have an audible credit (warp sorcery)
<2023-04-22T17:47:19.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Whenever it gets teaeassed
<2023-04-22T17:47:49.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: released
<2023-04-22T17:56:18.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Never mind it is on audible
<2023-04-22T17:57:20.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I switched my vpn to Britain and it showed up lol
<2023-04-22T17:58:33.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Now if I didn’t have to run a woodchipper the rest of the day I could start it lol
<2023-04-22T18:20:30.000Z> SaltWraith: Granted, I haven't started the book yet and it might surprise me, but I'm sure there's much better 40k books you could have used the credit on, but I guess the return of a primarch is the only hook they have to try to pull me back in to following the main storyline of current 40k
<2023-04-22T23:02:18.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I read the dark imperium books, they weren’t great but they were still worth a read
<2023-04-22T23:02:52.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: If this one sucks I’m not against just returning it and getting my credit back
<2023-04-22T23:03:37.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Also, you can still do that if you’ve backed up the file, which can then be drm stripped 
<2023-04-22T23:03:38.000Z> SaltWraith: Pretty much the only stuff worth reading in Dark Imperium is when Guilliman is in the scene, otherwise I just skip
<2023-04-22T23:04:52.000Z> SaltWraith: I'll say this though... the FIRST Dawn of Fire book, despite having a suitcase-lipped toilet marine on the cover, is actually not that bad because there's a lot of premium Gulliman and Belasarius Cowl chhantent in it
<2023-04-22T23:05:16.000Z> SaltWraith: but then I tapped after the second one because there was no Guilliman
<2023-04-22T23:05:20.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: 6 hours of cutting up and woodchipping branches and I am almost finished with the front yard, and there is around 3x as much in the back lol. 
<2023-04-22T23:06:24.000Z> SaltWraith: I'm glad we sold my grandpa's swampland because I just don't have the time or the will to fix it
<2023-04-22T23:08:45.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: We had a bad ice storm early in the year that dropped more branches than I’ve ever seen come down before
<2023-04-22T23:09:52.000Z> SaltWraith: We had some serious flooding during the winter but luckily nowhere near me.
<2023-04-22T23:10:43.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’ve been a ruralite my whole life though so if I don’t have endless work to do around my property I would loose my mind lol. It’s just what I do.
<2023-04-22T23:14:06.000Z> SaltWraith: I'm an urbanite but my grandpa owned swampland that was distributed to him by the beneficence of the Soviet government for being a good factory worker. I spent most summers growing up having to help him maintain it and honestly it was a pretty miserable time.
<2023-04-22T23:14:51.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Although with kids now is a whole new challenge 
<2023-04-22T23:17:18.000Z> SaltWraith: >tfw little Timmy is mesmerized by the spinning saw
<2023-04-22T23:19:31.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: He thinks the chainsaw is cool
<2023-04-22T23:20:06.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean he isn't wrong...
<2023-04-22T23:20:52.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: My parents have swampland, I used to walk around in it hunting frogs when I was a kid
<2023-04-22T23:21:18.000Z> SaltWraith: Actually part of why I always hated having to do shit on my grandpa's property is because we're a very humid country so it would be both really hot and full of bugs who wanted my blood
<2023-04-22T23:23:53.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Yeah we have lots of mosquitos here
<2023-04-22T23:24:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I have about 30-50 Muscovy Ducks because they eat mosquitoes lol
<2023-04-22T23:25:04.000Z> SaltWraith: The most dangerous creature living here is the tick because it carries lime disease and encephalitis 
<2023-04-22T23:26:05.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Also a benefit of keeping birds, we have lots of ticks here but I almost never find them on my property
<2023-04-22T23:26:34.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Only if I’m doing something on the edges where the birds don’t go
<2023-04-22T23:30:27.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: My parents lost a dog to Lyme disease from a tick years ago 
<2023-04-22T23:34:06.000Z> SaltWraith: I had a teacher who survived it but it did leave lasting neurological damage
<2023-04-22T23:43:20.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Yeah it’s pretty nasty
<2023-04-22T23:48:47.000Z> SaltWraith: other than that we don't really have anything else. there's vipers but they're rare and they won't really be able to kill anyone unless it's a child or someone with a heart condition
<2023-04-22T23:54:41.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’m in the US so we have lots of pit bulls lol
<2023-04-22T23:55:16.000Z> SaltWraith: ah yes the NIGGER DOGS
<2023-04-23T00:07:02.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: We have niggers too, but not many where I live.  If you go into town there are some but is mostly Mexicans out in the country and the country beaners don’t tend to be very dangerous.
<2023-04-23T00:08:06.000Z> SaltWraith: my country is too poor for rapefugees to want to stay, they just fly here and then get straight on to the boat to sweden for the gibs
<2023-04-23T00:12:57.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: We get lots of Mexicans here because there are wealthy suburbs nearby that they all do landscaping and shit for.  They’re annoying as fuck but at least they’re mostly not violent apes like niggers.  City beaners can be real dangerous but the ones out here are mostly just dangerous when they’re driving around shitfaced.
<2023-04-23T00:16:10.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Although we’re getting more and more niggers that come out here from the cities and do shit like cruise subdivisions stealing shit out of peoples cars.  Been a few shootings around too but it’s usually drug stuff.
<2023-04-23T00:16:46.000Z> SaltWraith: Mostly the crime here is lowclass ruskies and gypsies. Most of the brown people we get are pajeets who just want medical degrees and east asians who want engineering oens
<2023-04-23T00:20:21.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: We seem to have a problem around here with white guys and kid porn or actual stuff with kids.  Lot of drug shit too, fentanyl is a huge huge problem.
<2023-04-23T00:23:04.000Z> SaltWraith: my cousin brain damaged himself with spice
<2023-04-23T00:31:02.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah I wish we could get governments that actually tried to get rid of drugs
<2023-04-23T00:32:16.000Z> SaltWraith: the spice stuff was really retarded because our government banned all sale of it but all the spice shops came back a week later with a ((LEGALLY DIFFERENT)) blend
<2023-04-23T00:46:45.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I had a friend who owned a weed store when it was legal in his state but illegal federally, he got raided by the feds and went to prison for a few years, lost his wife and kids.  Wasn’t ‘redpilled’ at the time but he probably got targeted because he was a white guy with a beautiful white family.
<2023-04-23T00:49:50.000Z> SaltWraith: here the weed is illegal which is precisely why the spice stuff took off
<2023-04-23T00:50:02.000Z> SaltWraith: also I heard that people are huffing air duster now
<2023-04-23T00:53:23.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Stupid
<2023-04-23T09:40:06.000Z> SaltWraith: My government can never find the balls to do anything worth a shit except when it's time to diss Russia
<2023-04-23T13:20:22.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Woman behavior
<2023-04-23T19:03:41.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Finished part I, I like it overall so far
<2023-04-25T13:26:04.000Z> SaltWraith: bro I have a theory about Bequin 3/ End and the Death Part 2
<2023-04-25T13:27:03.000Z> SaltWraith: so you know how Dorn ends up warped in to the middle of nowhere in some inexplicable desert? what if that's where they eventually build the City of Dust, and Valdor learns this from Dorn or something
<2023-04-25T13:27:39.000Z> SaltWraith: and also what if it's all built with the same kind of ethereal weaving device as the one in The Magos, and Valdor put Dorn in to powering and using it
<2023-04-25T13:34:19.000Z> SaltWraith: Plus they also do mention the fact that Queen Mab ends up with a peculiarly high amount of things that almost wash up there from old Terra
<2023-04-25T14:42:49.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: that sounds familiar to something I read a while back on reddit, it had something to do with Dorn anyway (an obvious alternative candidate for a 'king in yellow')
<2023-04-25T14:43:22.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: but I don't think end & the death was out yet, so the 'nowhere desert' is an interesting tie in
<2023-04-25T14:44:51.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: there was another theory that the king in yellow is lorgar
<2023-04-25T14:46:27.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: or at least has something to do with lorgar
<2023-04-25T14:47:58.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: has to do with the reference to the king in yellow also being called Orphaeus, and talking about the warp as a song, which Lorgar also talked about the warp a lot as a song or symphony
<2023-04-25T14:50:40.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/uom055/alternate_theory_on_the_yellow_king_full_spoilers/
<2023-04-25T14:51:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: apologies for reddit link, but it's an interesting theory
<2023-04-25T14:51:07.000Z> SaltWraith: It's not Lorgar because Lorgar was apparently cranking and wanking to some other chaos ritual for 10k years somewhere else
<2023-04-25T14:52:14.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I'd be surprised if it was, but there are some interesting tie ins that could be intentional or maybe just accidental
<2023-04-25T14:53:03.000Z> SaltWraith: Plus it's not really his style to then try to produce Grails and fight chaos directly. I'm pretty sure the king in yellow is Valdor, and the Orpheus stuff might tie in to how Valdor's spear thing lets him absorb knowledge about the warp and shit
<2023-04-25T14:55:14.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: i don't think it's really Valdor's style either though
<2023-04-25T14:56:12.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: to build a perfect city out of golden ratio spirals and the like
<2023-04-25T14:57:12.000Z> SaltWraith: Sure it is. It's just him doing his best to succeed at what Big E failed at, a grand design meant to combat the warp directly
<2023-04-25T14:58:00.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: possible, but the description of the city makes it sound way more esoteric than would fit with either Valdor or Dorn
<2023-04-25T14:58:15.000Z> SaltWraith: Lorgar has always been the guy who desperately wanted someone bigger than him to step in and tell him what to think and do
<2023-04-25T14:59:09.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: maybe thats the Enuncia tie in
<2023-04-25T14:59:20.000Z> SaltWraith: well Valdor's been absorbing esoteric knowledge, and it's probably a necessity because he's now using processes that he originally never needed to know
<2023-04-25T15:00:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I definitely think Valdor is involved somehow, it would be pretty shitty to namedrop him in the big cliffhanger just to have it be a total ruse
<2023-04-25T15:01:23.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: there was reference to parts of the city being made out of auramite
<2023-04-25T15:02:47.000Z> SaltWraith: the other null clones do say something about calling for a "custodian" when they find Bequin and see that she's freaking out
<2023-04-25T15:07:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah that was pointed out, but they're never called custodes or adeptus custodes, so that one could be a red herring
<2023-04-25T15:10:25.000Z> SaltWraith: Well it wouldn't be "adeptus" considering the yellow king's operation probably doesn't consider itself part of the Imperium anymore
<2023-04-25T15:11:37.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: i just mean that the title 'custodian' doesn't necessarily mean 'custodes' and they were never seen
<2023-04-25T15:13:42.000Z> SaltWraith: Sure, but I think it just goes down to the simple fact that if they said "custodes" there and then, it would lessen the impact of the cliffhanger that was coming only a few pages later
<2023-04-25T15:28:07.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the orpheus reference could also fit Valdor too.  this could be some plan to save the emperor from his perpetual death.
<2023-04-25T15:32:05.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: theres an alternate theory I read that valdor is building an army capable of rescuing the emperor's soul from the warp if he perma-dies or something.
<2023-04-25T15:33:05.000Z> SaltWraith: Or it could be humanity that he's trying to save, since Big E couldn't
<2023-04-25T15:34:33.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: or destroy the warp itself, which would explain why the eldar are ready to send in a bunch of craftworlds
<2023-04-25T15:35:56.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: given that this happens around halfway through the 41st millenium, whatever it is hasn't apparently affected much
<2023-04-25T15:38:53.000Z> SaltWraith: Well removing the warp's influence was Big E's idea of saving humanity, and grails and enuncia is Valdor's more aggressive approach to it
<2023-04-25T15:39:11.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: and an army of blank clones
<2023-04-25T15:39:36.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: does seem like the sort of toolbox you would need to fight the warp itself
<2023-04-25T15:42:23.000Z> SaltWraith: It's why I do think that it probably really is Valdor. It's so razor focused and grand while also so alien to the rest of humanity
<2023-04-25T15:44:28.000Z> SaltWraith: It's very in line with Custodian thinking, it's ruthlessly radical and different approach that's even less likely to be seen from any other "loyalist" faction
<2023-04-25T15:58:10.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: did you read 'Two Metaphysical Blades'?
<2023-04-25T16:07:10.000Z> SaltWraith: No
<2023-04-25T16:08:07.000Z> SaltWraith: Is it about the spears?
<2023-04-25T16:09:34.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: so it was a short story about Leman Russ and Valdor that basically implies that they were both called away (when they both just sort of vanished) and implies that they will return together.  At least according to what I've heard, I've not read it either.  But be prepared for the possibility of the wolf king being involved lol
<2023-04-25T16:10:54.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: but yeah, about the spears sort of 
<2023-04-25T16:12:02.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: apparently it's a very good short, I've just not got around to it.  almost all the 40k I get is on audible and I won't use credits on a short story, and never feel like paying extra for them either.
<2023-04-25T16:13:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: that said, I would be incredibly surprised if Russ was involved in Abnett's story, but in theory he is supposed to return with Valdor from whatever missions the Emperor sent them on for the 'final battle'
<2023-04-25T16:58:10.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: there's so many questions the more I think about the book again.  like 'Comus Nocturnus'.  Since there are plenty of references to Greek mythology already, Comus is a greek god of drinking and revelry, or generally a god of joy/festivity/merrymaking.  Nocturnus obviously meaning 'of the night'.  So this is a strange choice of a name reference to give to an initially red-thirsted out blood angel mutant.
<2023-04-25T16:59:12.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: But there was a line in the beginning of penitent “Names, as we will see, are infinitely untrustworthy, yet infinitely important.I had become very sensitive to the distinction between what something is called and what it actually is.”
<2023-04-25T17:01:04.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: then you have the name of Alizebeth Bequin, when she is not (sort of)Alizebeth Bequin, you have Alpharius who is not Alpharius.  I can't think of any other obvious ones off the top of my head but makes me think about the name of Constantin Valdor.
<2023-04-25T17:42:39.000Z> SaltWraith: There's also the Aethereal College, where it's a mix of traitor and loyalist legionaries who all use fake names
<2023-04-25T17:44:16.000Z> SaltWraith: There's also the lady who ran the cognitae operation that raised Bequin, and it's possible that she's Lilean Chase but she also might not be
<2023-04-25T17:45:56.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: ah yes
<2023-04-25T17:46:30.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it's an interesting theme to have in a book with a big twist/cliffhanger is literally a name.
<2023-04-25T17:46:31.000Z> SaltWraith: Also if you take Comus Nocturnus' name in to account, it actually does highlight the weird sort of parallels between him and Cherubael in that they're both restrained creatures of the dark, but while Cherubael mostly resents it, Comus actually wants the chains
<2023-04-25T17:47:32.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it could be sort of a dark humor where his drinking and merriment are killing and drinking blood lol
<2023-04-25T17:50:00.000Z> SaltWraith: Well there is the question of who he is and how he got there, and despite his angelic nature he might have originally deserved to be imprisoned there and maybe his new, beneficent nature is like that guy from Planescape Torment where it's been so long and he's been through so much that he just doesn't remember and is now an entirely different person
<2023-04-25T17:52:04.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I'm also still wondering about the fact that there was blood angels armor by the crucified astartes she finds before finding the door to the City of Dust, but Comus and the thousands of others like him she later finds would appear to be altered and cloned.  so what is the significance of the armor?  is it another one of his little red herrings he likes to put in just to give you a certain initial impression?  it has to be significicant though. 
<2023-04-25T17:54:21.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the only other time I'm aware of in lore that a Blood Angel had actual wings was in Swallow's books where an inquisitor who got into chaos secretly planted a tzeench demon in a blood angel that made him grow wings and convinced half the blood angel chapter he was sanguinius returned, that led to a civil war 
<2023-04-25T17:56:17.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: so I'm thinking the yellow king has either tampered with blood angel geneseed and made a bunch of clones, or they're made from sanguinius himself
<2023-04-25T17:56:39.000Z> SaltWraith: Or he's tried to reverse engineer himself a Sanguinius
<2023-04-25T17:57:25.000Z> SaltWraith: And maybe the reason why they're all down there is because to his disappointment, no matter what he does, they still end up having the red thirst and black rage
<2023-04-25T17:58:13.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I'm leaning toward that, if they are chained up while subjected to the red thirst, there is no way they don't eventually go full black rage unless they're not true blood angels, or they're altered in some way.
<2023-04-25T17:58:56.000Z> SaltWraith: Maybe he's trying to get them to go Super Mary Sue Super Sanginuius like our old friend Mephiston
<2023-04-25T17:58:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Blood Angels have to be carefully trained from induction how to manage the red thirst
<2023-04-25T17:59:15.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: with some not even making it through ascencion.
<2023-04-25T17:59:25.000Z> SaltWraith: Sure, though a lot of it is also just doing arts and crafts
<2023-04-25T17:59:46.000Z> SaltWraith: hell, maybe Valdor has them all spackle his ceilings when they build another extension of his fortress
<2023-04-25T18:00:56.000Z> SaltWraith: You should totally read The Reverie though. If you like Blood Angels then I'm sure you'd find it very interesting, plus it has this cool dream-like atmosphere to it kinda like a Murakami novel
<2023-04-25T18:47:25.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I was actually going to get it right before I got the lion instead
<2023-04-25T18:47:48.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Which, I’m almost finished with and I’ve enjoyed it a lot so far
<2023-04-28T00:04:42.000Z> SaltWraith: well I finished the return of the Lion book. I kinda suspect they're going to have the Lion be the Eisenhorn to Guilliman's Ravenor, where Lionel might have to resort to unorthodox and dubious choices out of necessity
<2023-04-28T00:05:29.000Z> SaltWraith: Also I think Lionel might be how they might try to grandfather some renegade chapters back in to the Imperium... And I kinda hope that we'll get a Lion and Ahriman team up
<2023-04-28T00:11:07.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I think they did a really good job with it
<2023-04-28T00:12:05.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: It was a compelling story, but he kept it focused and ‘small’
<2023-04-28T00:13:07.000Z> SaltWraith: Well yeah, but it does also does leave it entirely open to where they could fuck it up next time
<2023-04-28T00:13:44.000Z> SaltWraith: ...by having the sequel be written by Thorpe or Kyme or Guymer
<2023-04-28T00:15:04.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I liked the mystery of the forest, I like how they pretty drastically changed his character but it made sense because he’s over 10,000 years old now and the difference in him was part of the story where the dark angels he encounters have to wonder to some extent if it’s actually him.
<2023-04-28T00:17:45.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: He kept him as the same hyper-autist sort of military genius but gave him a little more people skills.  But it wasn’t totally just a magical transformation, Lion was conscious of it and always questioning himself while trying to be better.
<2023-04-28T00:18:22.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: That’s always the risk in 40k
<2023-04-28T00:19:44.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: GW showed artwork from the last campaign book of the edition with Lion fighting Angron.  So I’d guess we’ll get a book about that
<2023-04-28T00:22:32.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’d also bet on something with him and cypher, if he’s putting an end to the hunt for the fallen, at least as it is going currently, seems like he will have to sort things out with cypher at some point, and that could get interesting
<2023-04-28T00:24:40.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Begs the question though: if The Dark Angels big gimmick/identity thing has always been hunting the fallen and keeping the secret, will they actually resolve that?
<2023-04-28T00:26:04.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: It’s almost comparable to the black rage in blood angels.  They can’t really ever solve that problem without destroying the identity and appeal of the legion.
<2023-04-28T07:48:29.000Z> SaltWraith: Embarrassingly enough, I actually did read the Primarchs book about Luther, and it ends with Luther still being alive and imprisoned by the modern Dark Angels, and it ended with a cliffhanger where the modern Dark Angels have created a Primaris successor chapter who exist purely to hunt down the Fallen once and for all
<2023-04-28T07:52:48.000Z> SaltWraith: See I wouldn't mind them resolving the whole Fallen thing once and for all, because I've always hated it. It's one of those things where while the gist of it is really simple, but it's also extremely convoluted when it comes to understanding who's jewing who and why and I'd be fine with it being finally resolved and the Dark Angels and their returned Primarch being able to go in a new direction
<2023-04-28T08:06:52.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean I get that the whole who's jewing who secret civil war thing has been a core part of their identity, but I don't think it's the same as with the black rage and red thirst. Like if you remove the black rage and red thirst from the Blood Angels, they'll just become a more generic good guy chapter with no faults, and I guess the more savage ones like the Flesh Tearers are gonna be less productive for a while because the rage isn't there anymore. Like taking away the black rage and red thirst is stupid in the same way as turning Dante in to a primaris was, it just robs the whole thing of flavor and dramatic weight.Resolving the Fallen thing one way or another on the other hand could be an interesting status quo change because it could give way to something else, and it could also be like an actually earned rare moral win for the imperium.
<2023-04-28T10:21:36.000Z> SaltWraith: Also I totally forgot but the guy who wrote that book about the Lion's return also wrote Alpharius Head of The Hydra, and that one is a great one.
<2023-04-28T11:50:17.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah I haven't read a lot of his stuff, but his writing seems pretty solid
<2023-04-28T11:59:31.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: thinking about it, he did emphasize the Dark Angel's role as protectors of humanity, and also their role of just being a different sort of 'executioner' than the space wolves.  so I appreciate that he seems to be consciously trying to redefine the legion back to their roots, and it makes sense in the current setting.  
<2023-04-28T12:23:12.000Z> SaltWraith: I think the eventual Gulliman VS Lion conflict is going to be about the Lion being like "bobby g you hackfraud, admit it, you love being the big boss of the imperium's bloated beraucracy! And this Primaris shit with that creepy old mechanicum dude is a powergrab you planned millenia in advance" and Bobby being like "No Lionel, you're the one that's sus! Look, you're hanging out with people who consorted with CHAOS"
<2023-04-28T12:24:22.000Z> SaltWraith: I know it's heretical but I do like the idea of Lionel being a way to grandfather some renegade factions in to the imperium, though.
<2023-04-28T12:24:47.000Z> SaltWraith: I know it's a idea that could go wrong, but I kinda want the Ahriman redemption saga.
<2023-04-28T12:38:25.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I mean, Guilliman is working with eldar to some extent.  
<2023-04-28T12:38:41.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I need to read the Ahriman books, I loved his character in the heresy books
<2023-04-28T12:42:29.000Z> SaltWraith: I've read the Ahriman books and honestly I don't love them. They have a lot of really strong character work in them, but the quests they're centered on are both convoluted and anti-climactic in the end
<2023-04-28T12:43:14.000Z> SaltWraith: But then again Ahriman is another one of those characters who can't actually ever be allowed by the writers to achieve total victory because it would be a massive status quo change
<2023-04-28T12:47:52.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah another common problem in the setting.  everything is so big and grand, and yet everything is so established, so you rarely get radical things happening unless it's worked in with new minis and their overall marketing campaign
<2023-04-28T12:48:31.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it's the annoying thing about a toy/game company that also writes books, instead of the other way around
<2023-04-28T12:51:19.000Z> SaltWraith: Well I really like the Thousand Sons but the Thousand Sons in particular have this issue where everything is extra grand because all these galaxy brained wizards can make all sorts of mega super warp pyramids of infinite complexity, but I as a reader just get tired of trying to imagine it and also because it's stuff in the warp it doesn't really matter.
<2023-04-28T12:51:52.000Z> SaltWraith: Like drop that pyramid on Baal or Terra or something and then I'll be impressed
<2023-04-28T12:53:07.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah, thats very true
<2023-04-28T12:55:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: also being turned into automatons makes them sort of boring, so they're very limited in usable characters.
<2023-04-28T12:57:40.000Z> SaltWraith: I think that's true for all 4 of the chaos god legions though. And they always do the bit where "this guy wasn't much during the Heresy War... but now he's boomerstrapped himself in to relevance, please pay attention"
<2023-04-28T12:58:51.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: khorne is the most egregious 
<2023-04-28T12:59:16.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: although funny enough it was world eaters that originally got me into 40k
<2023-04-28T12:59:28.000Z> SaltWraith: Kharn is still a great character
<2023-04-28T12:59:38.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: but they're just so boring
<2023-04-28T12:59:46.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah I like Kharn
<2023-04-28T12:59:50.000Z> SaltWraith: I'd rather them than the fucking Plague Marines
<2023-04-28T13:00:20.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Kharn fighting Angron on the ship was one of my favorite scenes from the Siege of Terra books
<2023-04-28T13:00:49.000Z> SaltWraith: Kharn the tard wrangler
<2023-04-28T13:00:55.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: lol
<2023-04-28T13:01:14.000Z> SaltWraith: also pour one out for our boy Argel Tal
<2023-04-28T13:01:34.000Z> SaltWraith: Argel Tal and Kharn was the greatest tag team of all time
<2023-04-28T13:01:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I wish they would've put Angron down sooner in the books instead of just having him flying around killing everybody for several books
<2023-04-28T13:02:37.000Z> SaltWraith: I liked the time when Petrurabo tardwrangled Angron
<2023-04-28T13:03:30.000Z> SaltWraith: in general, Petrurabo is the actual MVP of the chaos side in the Heresy war
<2023-04-28T13:03:35.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: or when Horus stuffs Lorgar in a locker before the Seige
<2023-04-28T13:03:49.000Z> SaltWraith: like none of the siege would be possible without Perturabo
<2023-04-28T13:03:55.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah he's probably at the top of my list
<2023-04-28T13:04:42.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I wish he would've had a better exit than just stomping off in frustration but it made sense
<2023-04-28T13:05:22.000Z> SaltWraith: He had his autistic realization "wait... chaos is like playing with cheats! and Horus still thinks I'm a fucking jabroni... FUCK THIS"
<2023-04-28T13:06:22.000Z> SaltWraith: meanwhile Horus on the way to Terra is like a fat guy who ate too much and all of his power is concentrated on not shitting his pants someone else has to drive him home
<2023-04-28T13:07:16.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: lol
<2023-04-28T13:07:50.000Z> SaltWraith: I like demon Fulgrim. He's just there to find entertainment
<2023-04-28T13:08:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah his 'final battle' was great
<2023-04-28T13:08:28.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Saturnine is still my favorite book in the whole series, and probably one of my favorites of all time
<2023-04-28T13:09:04.000Z> SaltWraith: Eh... I like the actual Saturnine Gate stuff, but most of the other storylines in it I don't actually care for
<2023-04-28T13:09:11.000Z> SaltWraith: like the Olly Pierce stuff sucks
<2023-04-28T13:10:10.000Z> SaltWraith: and the fake out death of Zephon just feels like a thing they did to swerve the readers at the time but doesn't actually contribute anything in the long run
<2023-04-28T13:10:18.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I guess I'm one of the few people that didn't hate Olly Pierce
<2023-04-28T13:10:36.000Z> SaltWraith: I didn't hate it, it's more like "why is this here"
<2023-04-28T13:11:24.000Z> SaltWraith: in general the problem with the Siege of Terra is that there's too many different story threads going on and Olly Pierce kinda just feels like time wasting
<2023-04-28T13:11:30.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it might be because I listened to the audiobook, the narrator really brought him to life
<2023-04-28T13:11:30.000Z> SaltWraith: speaking of time wasting
<2023-04-28T13:11:43.000Z> SaltWraith: what is the point of Katsuhiro
<2023-04-28T13:12:23.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah I don't even remember what Katsuiro did
<2023-04-28T13:12:55.000Z> SaltWraith: like do we really need this completely generic everyman point of view character? the reason why I even remember him is because of his distinctly Japanese name and because the narrator for the audiobooks busts out his chinese laundromat accent for him
<2023-04-28T13:13:50.000Z> SaltWraith: I've told you this before, but I think that it's actually our man Arkhan Land that's the best audience point of view character
<2023-04-28T13:15:52.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah, I remember thinking Katsuhiro was too much of a mary sue.  Like, a normal guy thrown into apocalyptic combat primarily against death guard and other nurgle shit somehow manages to just keep surviving
<2023-04-28T13:16:03.000Z> SaltWraith: also speaking of shitty, ill fitting and unnecessary characters with Japanese names... Do you remember Yasu Nagaseina?
<2023-04-28T13:16:16.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah
<2023-04-28T13:16:21.000Z> SaltWraith: fuck that guy
<2023-04-28T13:16:51.000Z> SaltWraith: "BUT I REALLY REALLY WANT A DEMON KILLING SAMURAI MAN"
<2023-04-28T13:16:57.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the last samurai
<2023-04-28T13:17:24.000Z> SaltWraith: see one of my favorite things about 40k is how history works in it
<2023-04-28T13:17:25.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: 40k has to cram in every trope and reference possible
<2023-04-28T13:17:57.000Z> SaltWraith: in how it goes up and down and people forget and then rediscover but misinterpret things
<2023-04-28T13:18:04.000Z> SaltWraith: you know... like in the real world
<2023-04-28T13:18:42.000Z> SaltWraith: so having a fucking Japanese-ass samurai man kinda flies in the face of that
<2023-04-28T13:20:22.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: who can go toe-to-toe with astartes
<2023-04-28T13:21:12.000Z> SaltWraith: actually one of my favorite lines in all of 40k is a fake quote at the start of a Ciaphas Cain book."Never expect anything good to happen and then nothing can ever disappoint you" - E'ore D'Donkey, "Memoirs of a Pessimist"
<2023-04-28T13:21:26.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: HAHA
<2023-04-28T13:21:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: thats fucking hilarious
<2023-04-28T13:22:14.000Z> SaltWraith: Like think about it... This implies that they somehow LOST Winnie The Pooh... Then rediscovered part of it... And then some fucking scribe wrote his own weird little philosophy text based on it
<2023-04-28T13:25:24.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: If humanity survives 10s of thousands more years, I hope that actually happens
<2023-04-28T13:25:34.000Z> SaltWraith: Also while there are times when people like Eisenhorn and Ciaphas Cain who have killed space marines in sword fights... Nagaseina fights fucking Lucius
<2023-04-28T13:27:12.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah that one goes squarely in the 'get the fuck out of here' category
<2023-04-28T13:27:31.000Z> SaltWraith: In general that book, The Crimson King, is kinda disappinting
<2023-04-28T13:27:59.000Z> SaltWraith: Like fuck the space wolves and fuck them for killing that cool Ultramarine psyker who was working for Malcador
<2023-04-28T13:28:16.000Z> SaltWraith: That guy should have been the sole survivor
<2023-04-28T13:29:01.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah
<2023-04-28T13:29:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: that was one of those books that I wasn't paying enough attention to, so I only vaguely remember what happened, but I never got around to revisiting it
<2023-04-28T13:30:26.000Z> SaltWraith: Did you ever read that Siege of Terra side story about Magnus going in to the imperial palace during the siege to have one last talk with Malcador and the Emperor?
<2023-04-28T13:32:30.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: no, haven't read any of the short stories.  thats another one where the problem is audible credits, and I won't spend them on shorter stories but I don't feel like paying for them either
<2023-04-28T13:33:00.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean that one is a novella so it's still like at least 5 hours of content, but it's also one of those where I can just tell you what's interesting about it
<2023-04-28T13:33:22.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I did get The Reverie last night, I started listening to it but I feel asleep pretty quickly
<2023-04-28T13:33:46.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I'm already not a fan of the narrator, so hopefully I can get used to him
<2023-04-28T13:34:25.000Z> SaltWraith: the narrator is fine, but the book does have sort of a weird dream like tone to it, especially in the first half
<2023-04-28T13:34:50.000Z> SaltWraith: the beginning very much reminds me of something like Kafka on the Shore by Haruki Murakami
<2023-04-28T13:35:21.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: he talks fast, and his breathing in is very noticeable 
<2023-04-28T13:36:09.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: not familiar with Murakami
<2023-04-28T13:36:55.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean in part it's also on the editor and not just the narrator. They've gotten better about it but there's a lot of 40k audiobooks where they leave in mistakes like leaving in the narrator failing a take and then redoing it.
<2023-04-28T13:40:55.000Z> SaltWraith: Murakami is this Japanese writer who often writes these dream-like and surreal novels where it feels a bit like you're having a fever dream.
<2023-04-28T13:45:53.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: >narrator failing a take and redoing itI hate that because I'm always like 'wait, didn't he just say that? Am I going nuts?'
<2023-04-28T13:48:13.000Z> SaltWraith: Look, I've been in the audio editing dungeon and I know how hard it is to comb for absolutely everything, but surely they could at least get another guy to sit down and listen to the whole thing before they publish it.
<2023-04-28T13:49:59.000Z> SaltWraith: But yeah The Reverie is probably not something to start before bed because the beginning can totally lull you to sleep, but it does gradually shed the dream-like atmosphere it goes on and you start to see what's actually happening.
<2023-04-28T19:20:13.000Z> SaltWraith: Anyway, so that Siege of Terra story about Magnus.. Magnus was still looking for the soul shard that he didn't know was already put inside Janus of the Grey Knights, and he looks for it in the imperial palace during the siege only to find out that Malcador and Big E lured him there to have a talk.
<2023-04-28T19:21:59.000Z> SaltWraith: And Big E offers Magnus a full pardon if he gets on the golden throne right there and then and he and the Emperor use their psychic power to kick the traitors off of Terra, and the emperor doesn't say it directly but it's heavily implied that he wanted Magnus to become the leader of the Grey Knights and they would then go on a crusade to kill Horus and the rest of the traitors
<2023-04-28T19:22:34.000Z> SaltWraith: And Magnus is like... "okay, but where's the catch?"And Big E is like "we're going to have to kill all your sons because they're all fucked up by chaos already"
<2023-04-28T19:22:51.000Z> SaltWraith: And Magnus is like "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" and sells his soul to Tzeench instantly
<2023-04-28T19:23:30.000Z> SaltWraith: Obviously it's a story where it couldn't actually end any other way, but the hypothetical of what if Magnus had said yes was a really interesting one.
<2023-04-28T19:45:46.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: thats pretty sweet, I'll have to listen to that eventually
<2023-04-28T21:16:47.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean I did kinda tell you the best and most notable part of it already. They also give Malcador a fake death where he accidentally insults Magnus and Magnus gets so assmad he burns him to a tiny crispy old man skeleton with a touch
<2023-04-28T21:17:35.000Z> SaltWraith: And they tie up a loose end by having the perpetual that was guarding the chaos gate thing on Molech be there on Terra and Malcador consumes her to instantly revive himself after the talks
<2023-05-03T12:21:45.000Z> SaltWraith: Apparently there's a new Blood Angels book and a book about Cypher coming in the next few months
<2023-05-03T12:22:39.000Z> SaltWraith: Do you think I should go back and try to read the Horus Heresy Dark Angels storyline? Because I read the first two but never really continued after that
<2023-05-03T13:06:46.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I liked Descent of Angels (first book?) overall, the ending was dumb.  I don't remember a lot from Fallen Angels other than Luther's coup.  You talking all the Imperium Secundus stuff too?
<2023-05-03T13:31:19.000Z> SaltWraith: Yeah because I stopped at the one where the Lion grounded Luther and he sat around and seethed on Caliban, and then the next I saw the Lion was during the imperium secundus stuff and then in the ruinstorm one for some reason the Lion has like a chaos gobbulin telling him jewish secrets and I'm like "wots dis den"
<2023-05-03T13:40:10.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I think thats all there is, unless some stuff is filled in in short stories or something
<2023-05-03T13:41:38.000Z> SaltWraith: no there's like one more called Angels of Caliban
<2023-05-03T13:41:57.000Z> SaltWraith: inbetween Imperium Secundus and Ruinstorm
<2023-05-03T13:44:37.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: i forgot about that one
<2023-05-03T13:45:13.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: thats still part of the imperium secundus arc though
<2023-05-03T13:45:45.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I forget what happens on caliban in that one though, I'll have to revisit that one at some point
<2023-05-03T13:45:46.000Z> SaltWraith: yeah but the imperium secundus stuff is mostly about Lionel and there's the whole other side
<2023-05-03T13:46:35.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah I don't remember that part, just his hunting Kurze and pissing off Guilliman in the process
<2023-05-03T13:48:29.000Z> SaltWraith: honestly him and Bobby G arguing always felt pretty forced and like it was just an attempt to set a precedent for them feuding 10k years later
<2023-05-05T13:26:22.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: shitpost.cloud/objects/e17d05e0-f4b9-4105-ae54-d58564387f20I read this and all I could think of was Alizabeth Bequin going to the city of dust, and suddenly remembers the one Enuncia word...which is just "Nigger"
<2023-05-05T13:44:14.000Z> SaltWraith: Yellow King Valdor is like "Behold my might", and then he gets a giant megaphone made of aurumite, has a portal opened, in to which he screams "NIGGERFAGGOTS"
<2023-05-05T13:44:38.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: >destroys the warp entirely
<2023-05-05T13:44:41.000Z> SaltWraith: And then on the other side of the portal, all of the Salamanders fall over and die of Georgefloyditis
<2023-05-05T13:44:50.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: LOL
<2023-05-05T13:45:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: nothing of value was lost
<2023-05-05T13:45:22.000Z> SaltWraith: Nah, to destroy the warp he has to scream "TRANNY FAGGOT YOU WILL NEVER BE A WOMAN" in enuncia at Slaanesh
<2023-05-05T13:45:44.000Z> SaltWraith: and "OOK OOK OOK FUCKING VIOLENT NIGGER APE" at Khorne
<2023-05-05T13:50:58.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: >destroys the chaos gods with shitposting
<2023-05-06T14:25:29.000Z> SaltWraith: Valdor puts Slaanesh in a guillotine chokehold and then carves the runes "Y W N B a W" in to it's forehead with a knife.. Dark Eldar tranny parade most heavily effected
<2023-05-06T16:45:35.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Hahaha. Need a 40k version of stonetoss 
<2023-05-06T18:35:22.000Z> SaltWraith: Valdor reveals that he found a great deal of Enuncia just from those old "AROUND BLACKS, NEVER RELAX" caricatures
<2023-05-06T22:37:38.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Turns out Lilian chase was just a coal burner
<2023-05-07T08:56:38.000Z> SaltWraith: Well apparently a lot of the cognitae hate the imperium because they're atheist libtards who think they could have facts and logicked their way around chaos if it wasn't for big E
<2023-05-07T09:56:10.000Z> SaltWraith: as soon as I start Angels of Caliban. I'm told why I didn't bother with it before...
<2023-05-07T09:56:18.000Z> SaltWraith: it's a GAV THORPE novel
<2023-05-07T13:33:06.000Z> SaltWraith: Actually to be fair I think Gav Thorpe is the least bad of BL's bad writers. Like Guymer and what's that other fag.. Those two never had any business writing a book to begin with
<2023-05-07T13:34:30.000Z> SaltWraith: Thrope actually does have good qualities as a writer, but he has one fatal flaw that stops him from ever writing anything beyond mid. He can't ever build any tension, so all his books just feel like stuff is happening without much weight to it.
<2023-05-07T18:56:20.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Deliverance lost was pretty good, I don’t even remember what happens in Corax
<2023-05-07T18:57:25.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Was first wall the one with the nigger guard legion that turns out to be traitor at the end?
<2023-05-07T18:57:36.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: regiment
<2023-05-07T19:59:11.000Z> SaltWraith: I don't remember what happens in The First Wall
<2023-05-07T19:59:53.000Z> SaltWraith: Corax is about how Corax runs back to Terra and begs Big E to give him access to special gene tech to make new and better space marines to rebuild his legion faster, but the Alpha Legion ruins it
<2023-05-07T20:00:23.000Z> SaltWraith: And it's also the one where you see an underground village made for primarchs inside the imperial palace
<2023-05-07T20:00:33.000Z> SaltWraith: where Big E originally intended to raise them
<2023-05-11T15:32:32.000Z> SaltWraith: I was wallowing around in pain for 2 days while also occasionally thinking about that extremely menty and kino video of Gonzalo Lira getting arrested
<2023-05-11T15:40:08.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I think I saw it while scrolling but didn't watch the whole thing
<2023-05-11T15:40:44.000Z> SaltWraith: I just think it's funny and lmao fuck Gonzo, why was he still there
<2023-05-11T15:41:32.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah, you'd think after the first time he would've fired up a couple brain cells and gtfo
<2023-05-11T15:42:43.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I don't know much about the guy other than he's some sort of anti-Ukraine commentator
<2023-05-11T15:43:15.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: pain for 2 days, what did you do?
<2023-05-11T15:43:28.000Z> SaltWraith: He started out as this slimy pick up artist guru and he's a huge fraud.
<2023-05-11T15:45:30.000Z> SaltWraith: My digestion isn't working the way it should, it was one night of really bad abdominal pain, followed by a whole day of my lower back and upper legs being all locked up in cramps. Which, while less painful, was still very inconvenient
<2023-05-11T15:46:30.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: ah, well I'm glad you're feeling better.  I've been having problems with my feet so I can relate.
<2023-05-11T15:48:47.000Z> SaltWraith: I'm fine now but I really need to see a doctor to figure out what causes this. Like this hasn't been the first time, but this is the most painful, prolonged and intense time it's happened.
<2023-05-11T15:49:04.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: not being able to walk is kind of a big problem when I'm trying to get my garden planted while managing a toddler and a 9mo pregnant wife lol
<2023-05-11T15:49:21.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I saw a doctor, wasn't very helpful
<2023-05-11T15:49:37.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: but iirc you're not in the US so might be better for you?
<2023-05-11T15:50:12.000Z> SaltWraith: oh I'm the guy with the uncle who's part of the secret cabal of doctors
<2023-05-11T15:50:22.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: ah thats right
<2023-05-11T15:50:29.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: well you have no excuse lol
<2023-05-11T15:51:31.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I found a general practitioner who was a white man with a private practice (most things are run through hospitals now) but I eneded up getting stuck with a mexican woman registered nurse anyway 
<2023-05-11T15:51:46.000Z> SaltWraith: >amerikastan
<2023-05-11T15:52:08.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it seems to be nearly impossible to just see a white male doctor around here
<2023-05-11T15:53:54.000Z> SaltWraith: They're too busy making sure the very fat black people stay alive
<2023-05-11T15:53:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: her solution to everything, in typical american medical fashion, was to try to get me on medication right away and then work on vague lifestyle changes to see if we could eventually get off the medication lol
<2023-05-11T15:55:53.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I only went to get an epinepherine pen because I'm allergic to wasps, and to get bloodwork done that I don't have a problem analyzing myself.
<2023-05-11T15:57:10.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it took me 5min to go through the results and come to the same conclusion that she did 4 days later.
<2023-05-11T16:00:08.000Z> SaltWraith: I have a friend who's an orderly at an insane asylum in the Netherlands and he has a rotating door of diversity hires rolling in and out constantly because all these sassy negresses just can't deal with the fact that tard wrangling requires effort.
<2023-05-11T16:01:45.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: as a descendant of Dutch immigrants to the US, it pains me how much of a joke the Netherlands has become.  It's bad enough here.
<2023-05-11T16:05:46.000Z> SaltWraith: Well the silver lining to this story is that my friend is the apex tard wrangler, he was fired around covid time because the asylum had a massive corruption scandal going on right as covid killed half the tards, and now the asylum has different management who got on their hands and knees and begged him to come back and be the Apex Tard Wrangler once more.
<2023-05-11T16:09:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Tard Wrangler in the Netherlands sounds like an awful job lol
<2023-05-11T16:10:45.000Z> SaltWraith: Tard wrangler is an awful job regardless of where you are and only a select few have the mental and physical fortitude to do something like that for a living
<2023-05-11T16:15:20.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I'm fortunate to work for a small family-owned company so we don't do diversity hires lol.  I work with all white men with the exception of one guy who's half pacific islander.
<2023-05-11T16:17:12.000Z> SaltWraith: Well with the trad wrangling, the niggers just leave on their own because tard care is far more involved than just sitting around in an old people home.
<2023-05-11T16:18:31.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah I'm sure they would prefer to 'take care' of the elderly instead
<2023-05-11T16:21:36.000Z> SaltWraith: he has this one really violent nigger tard named Melvin, and he was the bane of my friend's existence until a miracle from god happened and Melvin got hit by a delivery truck
<2023-05-11T16:22:04.000Z> SaltWraith: And now Melvin is blind and deaf on one side and doesn't really feel like doing much anymore
<2023-05-11T16:22:27.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: lol
<2023-05-11T16:22:41.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: a miracle indeed
<2023-05-11T16:24:05.000Z> SaltWraith: he says that maybe if Melvin had just slightly better impulse control, maybe in another timeline he'd be some MMA or boxing champion nigger
<2023-05-11T16:25:09.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: unfortunately, impulse control is in very short supply for niggers
<2023-05-11T16:25:40.000Z> SaltWraith: well my friend is deeply racist so he knows this
<2023-05-11T21:31:37.000Z> SaltWraith: I'm still reading Angels of Caliban novel and honestly for a Gav Thrope work it's not that bad. Since it's one of those novels that's meant to progress the plot but doesn't have to deliver on any sort of massive payoffs, it actually works to his strengths while mitigating his weaknesses as a writer.
<2023-05-12T09:32:36.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’m enjoying the revenant so far,should be finished this weekend
<2023-05-12T09:38:03.000Z> SaltWraith: The Revenant? The movie where Di'Caprio eats the raw moose liver and gets raped by a bear?
<2023-05-12T10:02:33.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I don’t know if my phone autocorrected that or if my 4:30am pre-coffee brain did that lol
<2023-05-12T10:07:40.000Z> SaltWraith: Well Reverie is one of those weird words that everyone sort of knows but probably doesn't automatically know the exact meaning of
<2023-05-12T11:54:15.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: between listening to metal for 15 years and 40k I know so many words that most people have no idea even exist lol
<2023-05-12T11:58:21.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: My wife has been watching this Law and Order SVU show for a couple weeks and I had the pleasure of watching an episode all about neo-nazi skinhead white supremists last night.  They pulled out every trope, and made the episode as emiotionally disturbing as possible.  It’s just so interesting watching literal brainwashing in real time
<2023-05-12T11:59:49.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I don’t know when the episode was made but I’m not sure they could even air it today, the evil racists said about every common slur in the book, including the word of power
<2023-05-12T12:01:19.000Z> SaltWraith: They actually said "Nigger" on SVU? Shieeet, did they call Ice T a nigger to his face? That'd be pretty funny
<2023-05-12T12:01:45.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yes thats exactly what happened actually lol
<2023-05-12T12:02:33.000Z> SaltWraith: bbbbbased
<2023-05-12T12:03:04.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: they called the jewiest looking one a kike to his face
<2023-05-12T12:03:23.000Z> SaltWraith: I'm with it
<2023-05-12T12:03:37.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: and you could tell the actor was just beyond enjoying himself acting out arresting the woman
<2023-05-12T12:04:29.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it was such a fascinating episode to watch from this side of things
<2023-05-12T12:04:32.000Z> SaltWraith: do you know that famous clip of that one black wrestler accidentally calling Hulk Hogan a nigger live on TV
<2023-05-12T12:04:46.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: no
<2023-05-12T12:05:03.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I vaguely remember hearing something about it
<2023-05-12T12:05:05.000Z> SaltWraith: youtube.com/watch?v=LF_f2rklPRw
<2023-05-12T12:05:11.000Z> SaltWraith: 30 seconds of pure comedy cold
<2023-05-12T12:05:53.000Z> SaltWraith: gold*
<2023-05-12T12:05:58.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: that reaction...lol
<2023-05-12T12:06:25.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean I get it, he's like "fuck... I just said Nigga live on prime time turner broadcast television. fuck fuck fuck"
<2023-05-12T12:06:52.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the woman behind him lol
<2023-05-12T12:07:03.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: >keep smiling, keep smiling, don't react
<2023-05-12T12:07:12.000Z> SaltWraith: "It's okay, schwookie, it's okay. Your black, nobody cares"
<2023-05-12T12:09:24.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: so the whole premise of SVU is 'sexually-based crimes' right?  the whole set-up to this episode is somebody shoots three kids on a playground.  like, they show the kids getting shot, and the one that dies is a little black kid
<2023-05-12T12:10:24.000Z> SaltWraith: I think it's like Special Victims Unit. I don't think the crimes are all sexual and more that there's some sort of "exceptional" aspect to the case
<2023-05-12T12:10:31.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: so from the start, there is nothing sex-crime related, but they obviously chose to just go with the most horrible thing they could put on network tv
<2023-05-12T12:10:32.000Z> SaltWraith: which I imagine is mostly hatecrimes
<2023-05-12T12:11:31.000Z> SaltWraith: I think the special is like... "specially shocking". So rape, hatecrimes and child murder
<2023-05-12T12:11:53.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: of course, the little dead black kid has two white parents (adopted), and one kid that got shot in the leg is a quirky but adorable little jewish kid (from the perspective of a normie)
<2023-05-12T12:12:10.000Z> SaltWraith: I have only ever watched one episode of SVU, and it was the gamergate episode purely for the memes
<2023-05-12T12:12:48.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: so of course, they find the gun and trace it to a gun shop.  theres a 16 year old kid who they con into letting them search the place, his dad owns the store
<2023-05-12T12:13:30.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: they decide to go down to the basement even though the kid repeatedly tells them not to, and of course!  huge swastika flag
<2023-05-12T12:13:33.000Z> SaltWraith: "ITS NOT UNDERHANDED IF THE POLICE CONS YOU WHEN FIGHTING RACISM"
<2023-05-12T12:13:41.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: 'hate symbols' everywhere
<2023-05-12T12:13:55.000Z> SaltWraith: "I'm A FAN OF THE ERA"
<2023-05-12T12:14:16.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: this woman down there printing leaflets or stickers starts calling them kikes and all sorts of other fun words
<2023-05-12T12:14:34.000Z> SaltWraith: see that's where they got it wrong
<2023-05-12T12:14:54.000Z> SaltWraith: a true wignat would know that the kikes send their golems
<2023-05-12T12:15:01.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: she goes off on a tantrum, dropping every far-right buzzword (I should've counted how many times she says 'Zionist Occupied Government')
<2023-05-12T12:15:17.000Z> SaltWraith: b b b based
<2023-05-12T12:16:11.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the gun store owner (not there) turns out to run a website for a 'hate group' called Revolutionary Aryan Warriors (lol)
<2023-05-12T12:16:33.000Z> SaltWraith: .com?
<2023-05-12T12:17:25.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: i don't remember the name of the site but it was even more hilarious
<2023-05-12T12:17:34.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: blitzkrieg something
<2023-05-12T12:18:03.000Z> SaltWraith: ApexNiggerkillers14000.info
<2023-05-12T12:18:45.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: anyway, the jew cop puts his hand on basednaziwife and she slaps him, which of course is 'assaulting a police officer' so she gets arrested and they bring the kid with them
<2023-05-12T12:18:47.000Z> SaltWraith: SchindlersFist.kike
<2023-05-12T12:19:11.000Z> SaltWraith: oh Ice T's partner is a heeb? not a surprise
<2023-05-12T12:19:30.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the dad shows up at the police station, well-dressed, well spoken (he calls Ice T a nigger)
<2023-05-12T12:19:54.000Z> SaltWraith: based
<2023-05-12T12:20:08.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah, his character is a jew (would be pretty hard to make him something else, no hiding that fucking nose)
<2023-05-12T12:20:54.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: they end up figuring out who bought the murder weapon, who signed the sale form 'G Rockwell' (lol)
<2023-05-12T12:21:01.000Z> SaltWraith: wow, Law and Order SVU has been going on straight since the year 1999
<2023-05-12T12:21:22.000Z> SaltWraith: that's a lot of jewish bullshit, thanks (((DICK WOLFFF))))
<2023-05-12T12:21:55.000Z> SaltWraith: okay G Rockwell is kinda clever
<2023-05-12T12:21:58.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: of course, it's a very overweight skinhead just out of prison with 'RAHOWA' tattooed across his back (which one of the characters explains the meaning)
<2023-05-12T12:22:41.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: they point out that it could stand for george lincoln rockwell in their attempt to bludgeon the audience with every reference they can fit in
<2023-05-12T12:23:30.000Z> SaltWraith: oh that's lame
<2023-05-12T12:23:41.000Z> SaltWraith: I mean I would drop G Rockwell somewhere but I'd never explain it
<2023-05-12T12:24:00.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: that would be clever writing and not brainwashing
<2023-05-12T12:24:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: so skinhead dude is on trial, the judge is beside himself that the DA offered him a pretty good deal and the judge just throws out the deal because 'it's his courtroom'
<2023-05-12T12:25:41.000Z> SaltWraith: "What do you mean, judge? It's backed by the FBI!"
<2023-05-12T12:25:42.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: skinhead dude pissed, gets dragged out of the courtroom screaming RAHOWA
<2023-05-12T12:26:04.000Z> SaltWraith: to be fair... I could see that happen to our Johnny...
<2023-05-12T12:26:48.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: skinhead dude's jew public defender bails, skinhead talks to DA and throws gun store owner under the bus claiming that he gave him the gun and the targets
<2023-05-12T12:28:34.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: after more hilarious courtroom antics including a black woman standing up in the middle of something and calling him and evil racist, eventually the climax of the show: the gun store kid stands up, yells 'race traitor', shoots the skinhead as he's testifying, shoots the judge, and shoots two of the SVU cops plus some other people
<2023-05-12T12:28:53.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: but wait, theres more
<2023-05-12T12:29:24.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: basednaziwife turns out to be...AN UNDERCOVER FED! imagine my shock
<2023-05-12T12:29:40.000Z> SaltWraith: Well it's good they're booking not-Dylan Roof to be strong
<2023-05-12T12:29:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: and even more! the white couple with the dead niglet turns out to be the ones who set up the shooting so they could collect life insurance on the kid
<2023-05-12T12:30:11.000Z> SaltWraith: lmao
<2023-05-12T12:30:30.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: all in all, it was a solid episode
<2023-05-12T12:30:36.000Z> SaltWraith: couldn't they just have him and the little kikelet be around some pitbulls instead
<2023-05-12T12:30:38.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I laughed a lot
<2023-05-12T12:30:55.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: we're only in season 7, i'm sure that comes eventually
<2023-05-12T12:31:01.000Z> SaltWraith: lmao
<2023-05-12T12:31:09.000Z> SaltWraith: anyway I looked at the wikipedia for SVU
<2023-05-12T12:31:16.000Z> SaltWraith: here's what I found
<2023-05-12T12:31:17.000Z> SaltWraith: One researcher has condemned the show for casually portraying and dismissing civil rights violations, and for creating moral panic over who is accused of crime. In season five, the show also over-portrays Black perpetrators and offenders higher than real crime statistics: "Victims of color, particularly if they were associated with the lower or working class were more likely to be depicted as contributing to their offense...Furthermore, minority victims were more likely than their white counterparts to be shown only in a photograph and to remain nameless throughout the program. African American females were almost completely missing as rape victims on “SVU”, despite the fact that they are the group most at risk for sexual assault."
<2023-05-12T12:31:24.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: looked it up, this episode aired in 2005
<2023-05-12T12:32:01.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: that sounds about right
<2023-05-12T12:32:05.000Z> SaltWraith: nigresses coping about how nobody wants to rape them
<2023-05-12T12:32:29.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: oh we watched another episode about fags too that was almost as hilarious
<2023-05-12T12:34:01.000Z> SaltWraith: they really only show CSI in my country and CSI was never as hilarious and way more about made up bullshit where they find three pubes in a doorhinge and somehow reconstruct an entire murder conspiracy with their holoprojector table
<2023-05-12T12:34:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the whole episode was about these faggots getting murdered, and they all had AIDS, which they found was some new 'super deadly strain' of super AIDS.  TLDR it was some other fag that killed them, and literally went to trial claiming it was self-defense on behalf of the gay community to stop the spread of the super AIDS
<2023-05-12T12:35:16.000Z> SaltWraith: it's like a standard fuckparty fanfic where someone actually had a conscience
<2023-05-12T12:35:20.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: and not once was it even touched on that these degenerates were just endlessly buttfucking each other 
<2023-05-12T12:36:30.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: some health department chick giving testimony was even talking about how this could be a new pandemic with how bad the super AIDS strain was, and never mentions that maybe we should forcibly prevent faggots from engaging in buttsex
<2023-05-12T12:36:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: my wife even picked up on this lol
<2023-05-12T12:38:03.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: CSI was more like trying to brainwash people into thinking that the goverment has all these high-tech things and super smart detectives that will catch you if you commit a crime
<2023-05-12T12:38:56.000Z> SaltWraith: yeah, though the truth is that even if any of this shit is possible, they're way too slow and expensive to ever use on anything but when someone decides to kill a senator or a goldman sachs banker
<2023-05-12T12:39:20.000Z> SaltWraith: and even then if it's not a kosher whacking
<2023-05-12T12:44:31.000Z> SaltWraith: I remember a long time ago when I still had Netflix I watched this show called Aquarius which was sort of about Charlie Manson and it also starred the lemon faced jew David Duchovny
<2023-05-12T12:44:48.000Z> SaltWraith: And that show sucks ass and is boring, but there's a great scene in it
<2023-05-12T12:46:02.000Z> SaltWraith: So Duchovny's character is supposed to be like a corrupt detective who's a massive piece of shit, but also a man's man and is supposed to be just slightly good so you're supposed to cheer for him when he does heelish shit to "the right people"
<2023-05-12T12:46:36.000Z> SaltWraith: But he just looks like a really smug jew who thinks he's way tougher and cooler than he actually is
<2023-05-12T12:47:53.000Z> SaltWraith: And there's this part where they arrested some Japanese guy who just starts trashing the cops in the interrogation room because "you pieces of shit put us in a concentration camp 20 years ago, why the fuck should I have any respect or good will towards you now?"
<2023-05-12T12:49:30.000Z> SaltWraith: And I think also doesn't give two fucks about Duchovny's WW2 military record
<2023-05-12T12:51:34.000Z> SaltWraith: So Duchovny goes kvetchcon 5 and starts abusing this gook in the interrogation room while screaming about how "THAT WASn"T A CONCENTRATION CAMP YOU KNOW NOTHING MUX 6 MILLION JEWS IN GERMANY NOW THAT WAS REAL YOU RESPECT ME GODDAMN YOU"
<2023-05-12T12:54:25.000Z> SaltWraith: it was just really bizarre and I had to wonder what these hacks were thinking
<2023-05-12T13:00:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: they really are just neurotic
<2023-05-12T13:02:38.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: there was a bunch of holocaust denial stuff in the SVU episode too, it really does get under their skin when the goyem start questioning their big lie
<2023-05-12T13:08:31.000Z> SaltWraith: You know... I have actually worked on two TV series...
<2023-05-12T13:09:58.000Z> SaltWraith: They're not based, but they're not cucked either because it's pure "The Soviet Union fucking sucked" content
<2023-05-12T13:20:17.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: tv doesn't need to be based to be good
<2023-05-12T13:21:02.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: i don't even mind some pozzed stuff if the overall content is good and it's not being rammed down my throat
<2023-05-12T13:22:00.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: i never watch anything unless my wife has stuff on, I would much rather listen to podcasts or audiobooks, or just read
<2023-05-12T13:23:38.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: we're in the time of year that I wake up at 4 and I'm working on the house or in the garden until almost 9pm so I usually just fall asleep immediately
<2023-05-12T13:28:07.000Z> SaltWraith: There was this show called Justified that me and my dad really liked. It was this show about an US marshal in Kentucky who would have one off adventures and season story arcs leading up to showdowns with new season villains. It wasn't based but it was very low on poz
<2023-05-12T13:29:36.000Z> SaltWraith: But I've worked on this 12 episode miniseries about a MI6 sponsored spy operation using Latvian WW2 veterans where they tried to do a recon operation in the late 1940s. It was pretty cool, it was actually a really big deal for my country because it was the first of it's kind
<2023-05-12T13:30:58.000Z> SaltWraith: And then last year we made this 7 episode miniseries about how the KGB technically never stopped existing because current Russia just built on top of the KGB's framework.
<2023-05-12T13:31:29.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: isn't Putin former KGB?
<2023-05-12T13:33:18.000Z> SaltWraith: Yeah. He likes to LARP about being a big tough James Bond type but in reality he just had a desk job in east Germany. Like by the time he graduated spy school, the Soviets already knew they were more or less done so he didn't actually do much.
<2023-05-12T13:33:53.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah but he rides bears lol
<2023-05-12T13:35:00.000Z> SaltWraith: Russians are a lot like Italians. They'll deny it to the grave, but at least half of their tough guy shit is entirely performative.
<2023-05-12T13:36:07.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I had a friend who was russian, he turned into a huge shitlib and might be gay now
<2023-05-12T13:37:03.000Z> SaltWraith: Fun fact : the very first person to call me a nazi was this weird Russian twink who lived in a rat's nest apartment in Moscow. And I wasn't even a right winger then.
<2023-05-12T13:37:53.000Z> SaltWraith: I hope he's dead.
<2023-05-12T13:37:58.000Z> SaltWraith: What a faggot he was
<2023-05-12T13:40:11.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: lol
<2023-05-12T13:42:26.000Z> SaltWraith: I know a lot of westerners on here really want to project everything they want on to MUH BBBBBBASED RUSSIA but Russia is a retarded country and it's always been retarded
<2023-05-12T13:43:10.000Z> SaltWraith: Like they don't have niggers or open fag shit, and sure I like that. But they don't really have much else.
<2023-05-12T13:43:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I initially supported the invasion because a: it was justified, and b: I wanted them to give NATO a black eye or cause it to fall apart entirely
<2023-05-12T13:44:53.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: but now it's just a whole bunch of guys on both sides dying and shit getting wrecked because their leadership is a bunch of dumb boomers
<2023-05-12T13:45:17.000Z> SaltWraith: Oh I agree that it was justified and all. But I just get too disgusted by all the innocent goyim dying for nothing while people on here ignore it in the off chance that it'll inconvenience ZOG
<2023-05-12T13:49:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I recognize I am not in a position to actually understand the working of high-level geopolitics the same way that somebody like Putin does, so I don't know if there is still some degree of 5D chess he's playing, but it seems really stupid at this point
<2023-05-12T13:51:18.000Z> SaltWraith: I just think he got high off of his own supply and thought it'd be way easier, and now he's stuck in it.
<2023-05-12T13:52:11.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: like, have a meeting with china, iran, NK, belarus, etc.  say we're done with this NATO shit and if we all stand together on this, they can't don shit about it, take out the entire Ukranian government and beat the shit out of them until they stop moving, and then be done with it
<2023-05-12T13:53:51.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the whole premise of this invasion was to not have another NATO country on your border, but in pussyfooting around now you have Finland joining NATO instead.  
<2023-05-12T13:57:08.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I definitely don't think Putin or Russia's leadership is secretly based, but I also don't think they're just jew puppets doing jew bidding
<2023-05-12T13:59:58.000Z> SaltWraith: They're definitely not as jewed as the amerikanskis, I just don't think people should have this false hope that things would get any less jewy under them. Putin is a gangster, Russia has always ultimately only ever worked as a gangster country. They will sooner find the perfect deal with schlomo than they will actively reduce schlomo's power in favor of the little people
<2023-05-12T14:06:09.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: thats what it seems like to me, once you look through the propaganda on both sides
<2023-05-12T14:06:34.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: or all sides I suppose, this isn't as simple as one side vs the other
<2023-05-12T14:12:02.000Z> SaltWraith: My man, the first time I ever heard the word "antifa" was in like the early 2000s. And the antifas were a bunch of RUSSIAN PSYOP AGENTS, HIRED BY THE KREMLIN, attacking the legitimacy of my country BASED ON THE FACT that half of our fighting men fought on the german side in WW2.
<2023-05-12T14:12:04.000Z> SaltWraith: yeah very BASED
<2023-05-12T14:12:08.000Z> SaltWraith: Russia sounds REALLY COOL
<2023-05-12T14:12:59.000Z> SaltWraith: yeah they totally click instantly with the views we have, they're totally not just the America of the old world
<2023-05-12T14:13:25.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Russia is an enormous country, assuming there are areas that you can just keep to yourself and not be bothered too much, it wouldn't be bad.  But there are still areas like that in the US too.
<2023-05-12T14:14:07.000Z> SaltWraith: Russia is a shithole. Yes, it has a tremendous amount of space, but considering their problem has always been logistics they just can't ever actually do anything good with it
<2023-05-12T14:14:40.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it's similar in the US though, the closer you are to logistics, the more bullshit you have to deal with
<2023-05-12T14:15:49.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: if you go waaaay out from anything resembling a town, you can probably never be bothered, but you're also on your own.  that still appeals to certain types of people though
<2023-05-12T14:16:09.000Z> SaltWraith: I'll just say this about Russia's ability to maintain it's own infrastructure... The Chinese has been chipping off pieces of Siberian land bit by bit, and they've been very good at it. And I don't hold it against them because there's fuck all being done with it.
<2023-05-12T14:18:44.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: yeah
<2023-05-12T14:20:47.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: theres the American idea (I think) of homesteading where if you put a fence around a piece of land and develop it, it's yours.  if you claim a bunch of territory and don't do anything with it and don't have the means of preventing someone else from claiming it and doing something with it, why should it be yours?
<2023-05-12T14:21:41.000Z> SaltWraith: Now, I do come from a place called "The butthurt belt" where our hatred for Russia will be pretty much until the end of time... But I'll say this... We often like to point out how if 109 countries kicked the jews out, doesn't that say something about the jews? Well if the entire soviet block fucking hates Russia... Shouldn't that tell you something about Russia?
<2023-05-12T14:22:05.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: fair point lol
<2023-05-12T14:23:54.000Z> SaltWraith: Like I've been around the former soviet block. The easiest way to make friends at a bar, even before 2014, was to say "man I fucking hate Russia"
<2023-05-12T14:24:26.000Z> SaltWraith: And they're like "Ah, friend. You can sit with us. Let's trade stories about what our old enemy did to us"
<2023-05-12T14:24:35.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: lol I can see that
<2023-05-12T14:25:15.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I used to work with a Belarussian, I can see him being that way
<2023-05-12T14:28:38.000Z> SaltWraith: Well here's the thing. I know a lot of ethnic Russians, and they're all pro my country. Like they don't have any fucking desire to live under the Russian flag. And the thing is, we just end up talking in whatever language took the lead at that moment. I don't care, I can flip between them.
<2023-05-12T14:29:06.000Z> SaltWraith: My cousin was fucking retard though. He stubbornly refused to learn Russian even though it's actually a very useful language.
<2023-05-12T14:29:32.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I wish I knew more languages
<2023-05-12T14:30:03.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I took a little bit of spanish in high school, but I wish my grandparents had taught me Dutch
<2023-05-12T14:32:14.000Z> SaltWraith: I also know German because I used to watch German TV as a kid because they had anime on TV and my school had the option where you could get either German or Russian
<2023-05-12T14:33:08.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: lol the Belarussian I used to work with had a strange accent, when I asked him about it he said it was because they watched Russian and German tv when they were kids
<2023-05-12T14:34:03.000Z> SaltWraith: My German has definitely degraded though, because I barely ever use it outside of when I'm in Germany.  Germans is also just annoying to read because these fuckers keep wanting to make up all sorts of ridiculous compound words that can go up to like 30 characters long
<2023-05-12T14:35:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I use a lot of German-made components in the robots I design, so I've had the pleasure of looking through german technical manuals lol
<2023-05-12T14:36:46.000Z> SaltWraith: Yeah my mom gave her old BMW to my grandpa and he told me to read him the technical manual and I was absolutely floored by some of these words, especially since I knew for certain that both the English and Russian versions of these words would be far less cumbersome.
<2023-05-12T14:40:37.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I will probably encourage my kids to learn more languages, maybe I can learn at the same time
<2023-05-12T14:41:42.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I was learning the Cyrillic alphabet a while ago but it's quite confusing when you've only used english your whole life
<2023-05-12T14:43:45.000Z> SaltWraith: yeah I technically can read in Russian but I don't do it anywhere near fast or efficient enough to do anything more complicated than look for data points on articles
<2023-05-12T14:44:48.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it takes a while to get around the same letter making different sounds
<2023-05-12T14:45:48.000Z> SaltWraith: you just need to learn not to think of it in that way
<2023-05-12T14:48:04.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I think I could learn it if I had the time to properly study and practice, I was just doing it at work when I was bored
<2023-05-12T14:49:27.000Z> SaltWraith: shamefully, I actually read moonrunes better than I read russian 
<2023-05-12T14:49:39.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: lol
<2023-05-12T14:50:29.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: at least you can read more than english
<2023-05-12T14:51:41.000Z> SaltWraith: it's why I really like John Grammaticus, he's like me!
<2023-05-12T15:08:13.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: he's one of the most interesting characters in 40k
<2023-05-12T15:08:51.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: and I love his voicing in the audiobooks
<2023-05-12T15:15:51.000Z> SaltWraith: I don't know if you've ever played Metal Gear Solid V, but there's a lot in there about language and how language is actually something that will build the infrastructure of your thoughts
<2023-05-12T15:16:32.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I haven't play any metal gear solid
<2023-05-12T15:16:57.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: that is a main concept in 1984 though
<2023-05-12T15:18:02.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: or at least the idea that you can completely control a population if you have total control over their language
<2023-05-12T15:19:16.000Z> SaltWraith: Well in MGSV the main villain is a guy who grew up in a warzone with constant regime change which lead to him constantly having to change languages and identities while his history was destroyed. He has some pretty kino speeches.
<2023-05-12T15:21:02.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: nice
<2023-05-12T15:21:30.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: i play pokemon when i have any time for games at all lol
<2023-05-12T15:23:14.000Z> SaltWraith: oh metal gear is dead. the creator left the company and then the company itself has mostly stopped making games to instead make gambling machines
<2023-05-12T15:24:49.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: lol
<2023-05-12T15:34:46.000Z> SaltWraith: MGS is pretty interesting because it's this weird, grand scifi alternative history spy drama that did sort of predict some of the stuff happening now, though mostly by accident
<2023-05-16T16:00:53.000Z> SaltWraith: a lot of Bobby G and Lionel not liking eachother apparently just boils down toBobby : "The lion is a sperg who just does whatever he wants without telling anyone!"
<2023-05-16T16:11:12.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: it makes sense though, it's a character trait that created some massive problems even in his own legion
<2023-05-16T16:12:22.000Z> SaltWraith: I do believe that the Lion is pretty much a giant fuckup who just got really lucky that his extremely costly mistakes happened at the same time as a bunch of more pressing issues
<2023-05-16T16:15:34.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: oh for sure, had the Emperor learned of what happened in his legion or been able to do anything about it, they would've been purged.
<2023-05-16T16:16:50.000Z> SaltWraith: it's really not much different from the Fulgrim situation
<2023-05-16T16:16:52.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: there is a guy on instagram who created his own parallel 30k universe called The Lionel Heresy where the 'good primarchs' and 'bad primarchs' were reversed.  it's pretty cool actually, he does all this badass artwork for it
<2023-05-16T16:17:18.000Z> SaltWraith: imagine if Big E found out about him having standard fuckparties long before he found the gay demon snake sword
<2023-05-16T16:18:39.000Z> SaltWraith: I remember reading some different reverse heresy thing where it's also all the loyal primarchs as traitors and the traitor ones as loyalists. it was kinda boring honestly
<2023-05-16T16:19:08.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: the artwork he did is really cool, I've never bothered to read any of his fanfic though
<2023-05-16T16:20:06.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: ah, found him
<2023-05-16T16:20:07.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: artstation.com/chank0211
<2023-05-17T14:54:08.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: finally made it to the final part in the reverie, it's a really good book so far, thanks for the recommendation.  hopefully i'll have time to finish it tonight
<2023-05-17T15:09:28.000Z> SaltWraith: I was kinda worried that I may have overhyped it, but I was really impressed with it when I picked it up with no expectations
<2023-05-19T22:25:14.000Z> SaltWraith: so did you finish The Reverie?
<2023-05-19T22:55:15.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I did, great book
<2023-05-19T23:58:43.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’m not into “horror” but I’m not sure what makes this book “horror” compared to a lot of other 40k books
<2023-05-20T08:53:00.000Z> SaltWraith: that's the thing, Warhammer Horror is kind of a superfluous thing considering horror is like baked in to the DNA of 40k
<2023-05-20T08:54:34.000Z> SaltWraith: mostly it's just a branding thing for mostly alright standalone books that sort of try to evoke that gothic horror feel
<2023-05-20T08:55:42.000Z> SaltWraith: Reverie is the best one I've read though, and I kinda hope the guy writes some sort of sequel because I just really want to know more about that chapter of Blood Angels descendants
<2023-05-20T13:02:59.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’m thinking about getting Luther next
<2023-05-20T14:15:34.000Z> SaltWraith: the Primarchs novel? no don't do it it sucks
<2023-05-20T14:16:32.000Z> SaltWraith: it's another one where they pretend they're giving you revelations but then they do whatever they can to try to avoid actually addressing the actual issues
<2023-05-20T14:18:14.000Z> SaltWraith: I'll tell you all you need to know about it : Luther is still alive in the 41st millennium and is held as a prisoner by the loyalist dark angels in super secrecy, and at the very end they reveal that there's a new primaris Dark Angels spinoff chapter who exist purely to hunt down the Fallen
<2023-05-20T14:26:16.000Z> SaltWraith: Like they do everything they can to avoid talking about anything specific that Luther or The Lion may have done when Lionel came back to Caliban so it's a lot of Luther waffling and remembering shit nobody really cares about like him hanging out with Typhon because they're both secretly in to dark wizardry
<2023-05-20T18:42:22.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I’m ignoring your last two messages because it’s too late and I already got the book 
<2023-05-20T18:42:47.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Oh well, if it completely sucks I’ll just return it
<2023-05-20T18:43:11.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: The sanguinius one was underwhelming but it was still an ok read
<2023-05-20T18:50:13.000Z> SaltWraith: The Luther one also has the Gav Thorpe problem where because  Gav is unable to build an actual arc of tension, it's just an endless slog
<2023-05-20T18:50:42.000Z> SaltWraith: I've pimped it to you before, but the Primarchs book about Alpharius is probably the best one in that series
<2023-05-20T19:13:15.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: I think I’m gonna detour back to the dark angel heresy books first 
<2023-05-20T19:13:31.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: Not the first one though, I reread that one last year
<2023-05-20T19:26:50.000Z> SaltWraith: they're okay, though the thing is some really important stuff happens in the Lion novella that's part of "The Primarchs", which is a mainline horus heresy novel most infamous for the Fulgrim section where he has a standard fuckparty with his boys
<2023-05-21T19:01:16.000Z> SaltWraith: there's apparently going to be a novel about Cypher in the 41st millenium coming out next month. I never really thought I'd be looking forward to Dark Angels content but fair fucks to them, the return of the Lion actually has some intrigue to it
<2023-05-21T19:02:02.000Z> SaltWraith: But then again the return of Gulliman's problem was mostly that it was wedged between like six million other things happening at the same time so it's impossible to judge as a single story
<2023-05-21T19:28:23.000Z> EssentialUtinsil: And it was against mortarian
<2023-05-22T08:24:27.000Z> SaltWraith: It's still mostly against him. Yeah Mr.Stinky and his legion of goons who have like nothing going on besides "eeee we're gross"